Charlie, you're often borrowing things from Mrs Bishop' well why not borrow her nail files and at 90-degree angle to the rails stroke the helix rails with the files to rough them up a bit? When I was a kid I had a dock shunter that had serrated wheels and it worked a treat. My mum said, be nice to the little girls next door and let them play with your trains and the little horrors would fill up my goods train with broken bits of dolls and marbles and the shunter managed the Hornby incline set with no problems.
I have had Covid' on 13 December. It laid me up in bed (almost ended up in hospital.) I was left with a chest problem where I could hardly walk without coughing so much I became breathless. I have been in bed watching you and some others. I am now able to do some light exercise and I am doing a bit more each day. Keep up the good videos, they are about the only thing that is keeping me sane.
Your videos are always a great help not to spend money on stuff that are not working. Also love that you are spending time on your helix so we are learning from your experience. Thanks for your dedication!
Charlie, you're approaching this in completely the wrong way. All you need is a 4mm scale figure dispensing sand onto the rails in front of the train. Simple!
I love this!! I was trying to get a locomotive from the early 80's back on the track last night, but the traction tires were dried out. I was telling some friends I would need to get some Bullfrog Snot to repair the traction tires. Great to see you doing a video on it. -Heath
Hello from Germany! I am always waiting for the new video and again you found an interesting solution. I had the same problem and I tried to increase the Friktion at the Loco by using more weight. The better results I had, started by changing the power pickup at the coaches. I found this idea by a German modellrailroader. It’s easy, cheap
Another great video from Chadwick! It's only after using a set of headphones to listen to your videos rather than on the PC speakers, that I realise your opening is "Welcome back to Chadwick Model Railway, I'm Charlie" not what I was hearing "Welcome back to Chadwick Model Railway, I'm charming". Loving the videos, looking forward to the next one.
Hi Charlie and a happy new year, you've got more patience than I had for my helix. All the issues you are facing eventually lead to me giving in. Fortunately your helix looks to be easier to adjust and more accessible. My intercity trains and 12 wheeled engines usually had enough weight and traction to run. My steam locos didn't work at all, that was why I had a level loop for them to run on. like you, I was learning how to make this work and comments rained in from other modelers on RUclips. I wasn't winning this battle. For me the straw that broke the camel's back was when someone pointed out the extra wear and tear on the motors, it was thought that the helix would half the life of the motors. That news came in when l was at a low ebb and starting to believe that I had made the wrong choice of railway layout. I think your extra layer will go along way in achieving your goal, an option I didn't really have, the incline has to be slight. Just a thought with the traction gloop, I wonder if that would work on my Rocket, despite being level its lack of weight affects its traction. I'm busy with track ballasting and hillside scenery at the moment, hopefully have an update soon. I wish I had your editing skills.... kind regards Jim
Hi Jim, I’ve completely re-jigged the Helix this weekend. You’re right the incline was too steep. Good luck with the rocket, I will put it back in its box! Regards Charlie
Bfs was worth ago Charlie I had some many years ago for replacing so called traction tyre's on my old Lima classes and seemed to work back then. Always been put of having a helix on my model railway just for the sake of these problems you are having at the moment but I'm sure you will master this issue. Look forward to seeing you do slight decrease finger's crossed it will all work out. Thanks for another great video and a testing of a product out and given a honest opinion. Take care Charlie and stay safe kind regards Gary
Hi there Charlie i have had the same issue as you but some times my locos can't pull my rake of mk1s around a curve and the wheels just slip now that i have seen your video this product you have shown might just be the answer to my problems thankyou for taking the time to put this one together. Cheers and all the best. Nicholas.
Hi Charlie, absolutely brilliantly funny, the little snigger when talking about snot, and the bogie comment nearly made me choke on my lunch, so funny. Anyway off to the loft now to do a bit more on the railway.
I was wondering if it's just liquid rubber, which is a bit cheaper. None the less interesting exercise in getting no where but at least it has proved you need another spiral. Great video again kid, thanks Frank.
Love the progress Charlie. You’re quite right in what you say about getting stuck in, I’ve got stuck in finally and have begun to make track plans and have been looking at kits of building to practice with etc. All good fun between work! Keep well and keep modelling!
Bullfrog Snot indeed - what could possibly go wrong (to pinch a catchphrase!). Another truly engaging video Charlie. Thanks for all the effort you put in to making our Fridays so joyful
Thanks as always Charlie. I look forward to seeing how those locos cope on the lesser grade with another loop added. It’s very helpful information which is of benefit to many people. Stay safe and all the best, from Brisbane, down under 👍
As always a great video, it’s difficult to watch as it takes me back to my struggles with exactly the same situation I had 6 years ago, you may remember I messaged you on your first foray into the helix. I also used the power base and bullfrog snot, run the up on the outside of the helix etc etc. I’m reluctant to tell you the outcome but it did not end well for the helix. I truly hope you get it to work, my ‘helix’ now has a diameter of almost 8 feet and with a gradient of 1-60 ish, I can now haul 11 coach trains with almost any steam loco, and a 40 wagon coal train hauled by a garret! I had more trouble with freight than I did coaches but that maybe because I wanted most trains hauled by steam. Thanks and good luck.
What an excellent comment mate. I’ve had to rejig to my Helix and hopefully you’ll see it next week. I have the advantage that I’m not really a steam engine kind of guy but only time will tell. Regards Charlie
Good morning Charlie, great video, it's a pity that there is no conductive material in the Bullfrog Snot, great name, I have tried all sorts of things to increase the amount of pull of locos up my inclines, best I have come up with is turning engines around, seems to work, keep safe and well and busy
Bullfrog snot on the bogie ! haha.Try applying to opposite wheels on each axle,leaving one for pickup and one for grip.And with one in each corner on diesels on opp.sides. My locos with best traction are articulated with traction tyres and set up like this.Good weight over drivers is best as you know.Even some of my tender drive locos have good traction with tyres.My standard grade is 2.5% or 1in 42,but i have less and more in places. I am making a rack section which will be 7.5%,so working on ideas and testing various combos,needs to zig zag around the stairs to reach the hallway at the top.Keep up the good work Charlie !
Nice one Charlie..... I've not ever used 'Snot' which I guess is a reinforced latex product and does seem by your video to have some merit, although how long it will last remains to be seen. As far as helix's go my double helix is graduated with the steepest section at the bottom so if a train manages this section it will lift a train to the top, the advantage being one can back off an 'overloaded' train without the perils of backing off further up the helix and maybe getting buffer/coupling lock. If you can add an additional loop in your helix complex... go for it and adding some weight to your locos will certainly be worth while. As for replacing rubber tyres one way that I have had success with is build up a layer of silicone sealant in the groove and allow to throughly cure. Another which I'm testing out is shink-wrap tubing. Starting with tubing slightly under size and stretching it into the groove followed by a final fixing with a dunk in boiling water to bed it down. (The water must be boiling). Thus far this method looks to be working.
An interesting point Indigo. None of my locos have traction tyre facilities. So that option is not open to me. However I am adding an extra layer to the helix and lowering the layers to decrease the incline. Regards Charlie
Who would have thought that 5 minutes of Charlie holding a cocktail stick would be interesting? Wow, lockdown does lower expectations 😁😁. I loved the “aft” set of wheels comment too, RN breaks through the Civvie veneer... And wasn’t a Snotty a Midshipman? I thought it interesting how both Loco’s sort of sped off about 1/3 of the up. Perhaps the gradient eases off a tad? Anyway great to see things developing.
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. It’s just so happens today I’ve completely rehashed the helix gradient, and hopefully have removed any ambiguities with the incline.
Nice video, I only run trains on a level track but found those locos that need tyres, quite often the replacements are thicker and course the loco to run lopsided. So I found that heat shrink tubing a good replacement, the trick is to find the closest size as it doesn't stretch ...happy modelling stay safe
Great video Charlie! I might have few suggestions for you. First, try to apply bullfrog snot just on one wheel per axle and diagonally within one boogie. You will get more even moment of force distribution. Second, try to avoid wheel slipping. Not only it grinds both wheels and rails but more importantly it also decreases overall power output. Coefficient of adhesion is greater than coefficient of friction, therefore you will get better reaction force and better moment of force. I am looking for the next video!
Hey Charlie, thanks again for doing the hard work researching and testing products for us. I could see you had enough clearance to lower the helix' and then you admit you had increased them! One thing noticeable is the speed is inconsistent even with the full train on the helix. Check the back-to-backs and run a track gauge over it, wheels could be binding.
Hi Charlie. When you started I got very excited at the prospect of my Hornby Packet no longer stalling coming out of Bournemouth West with 4 up. Alas. Good to try these things though - if we hadnt experimented we'd all still be living in caves. I certainly endorse your comment about activity rather than lockdown moaning. Its a good opportunity. My regards
Oh well Charlie, I must say you are up to a challenge, nothing ventured and all that. Your always entertaining and I do agree with you about getting out there and doing something (I don't mean go outside) although until furloughed I did work a couple of days a week, I don't know how I had time to go to work, between my railway and woodturning (in my very cold garage ) stopping for tea with the wife (I look on it as care work) my days are full, the thing I do miss is the grandchildren. We have to make the best of it take care of yourselfs stay safe, see you on the next one Eddy xx
An interesting video Charlie. I wonder if the Snot eventually leaves a residue on the track? I've been following your helix series with great interest as I've been in the process of realigning the gradients on my layout (not helix's) due to traction issues, and I was curious when you mentioned the revised 1:35ish gradient compared to the original 1:42. My original steepest gradient was 1:30, on which some of my locos performed very poorly. Now my steepest gradient is 1:40 and what originally couldn't accomplish the 1:30 now performs faultlessly at 1:40. When you mentioned your similar gradient stats, it made me wonder if there's an optimum gradient (magic number) that works in general, that being something in the vicinity of 1:40?... just a thought. As always, I thoroughly enjoy watching your channel, take care, Julian.
Hi Charlie, interesting stuff, I was really happy with my test runs on my helix until i tried the steamers, they struggled. As I had also used a screwed rod construction I added another level to the helix and it solved the issues.
Hi Charlie, Thank you for a fun presentation of Bullfrog Snot (acronym not recommended). I achieved better results by coating the flanges, as well as the wheels, with a 3mm brush. I smiled all the way through your most amusing video, Arthur Rae
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Arthur, and many thanks for sponsoring it. I haven’t given up yet, not by along shot. I am currently reconfiguring the Helix, and then I’ll give it another go. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, I think that the Bullfrog Snot can still be of some help. I think I'll try and find it. The Chap in the hospital my heart goes out to you. I'm getting ready to go in for heart surgery and I will definitely be watching train videos. Hope you have a quick recovery God Speed, Chris
Nice humor Charlie, had a good laugh, you really most say nice going. While it wasn't a great success you musst admit you did learn a lot from it. Looking forward to seeing how it all comes together down the road....thanks for sharing 👍👍👍👍👍😃
Is there a dedicated bullfrog farm to collect the snot !! . Tough job. Wholeheartedly agree about not sitting around, even a short walk will do wonders for your state of mind. Must get on I have a new fiddle yard to wire up. Keep safe
Another great video, I have a multi level helix on my layout and yes your rise definitely too steep for the diameter you have. My helix is similar construction but minimal space using the tallest freight wagon I will be running however mine spans 1.6meters across. I found my earlier one of less than this sure did take a toll on coach numbers vs loco unless double heading. But layout looking great as always :). Just playing catch up from months ago lol.
Another fantastic video Charlie! I had similar findings when I reviewed the Bullfrog snot. I did find however that in combination with a "power base" solution the results were actually impressive, mind my helix is a hair over 2% and even I conceded its too steep. Regardless keep at it, the right balance will yield results! Looking forward to the next one, Cheers, Ben.
Well you have to try these things. so thanks for showing your results. Please could you do a comparison with and without the magnets also - to compare the benefit (or not) of the powerbase plates ? Thank you.
Hi Charlie. That' what I said before about lowering the helix undo the nuts and lower the levels though as you know you can only go so low otherwise the train will get stuck Yet another great video Charlie..
On some of my Hornby steam locos where needed I have removed the geared set of drivers and machined a groove in them and fitted Hornby traction tyres. This has worked with no problems and they are run at a constant speed round the layout. Somewhere between speed step 25 and 40. I don’t have a helix but do have a gradient.
Great video Charlie, as always. Charlie I'm sure you've thought of this already, but maybe not. The gradient between the top of the helix and the existing layout will be steeper than you might expect by just measuring the horizontal and vertical distances. You will need vertical transitions curves at both ends and with long fixed chassis locos they will need to be "gentle". The effect will be to shorten the horizontal distance and therefore steepen the gradient. Good luck with the installation. Take care and keep safe. john c
A good point John. And I am currently looking into the mathematics. The Helix has been reconfigured and I’m adding an extra layer so hopefully that should do the trick.
@@ChadwickModelRailway I found the following method worked very well. I had level track at the top and bottom of the incline with a height difference of approx 80mm and a horizontal distance of just over 2m. I wanted to restrict the steepest gradient to 5%. I slackened off or removed all the interim risers that I had already fitted and then rigidly secured the 9mm plywood sub-bed at the top absolutely level to match up to the existing. I then repeated the same horizontal fixing at the lower level. The 9mm bed found it's own shape (a very gentle "S"), which was very close to the desired profile. I lifted it slightly in the middle to compensate for it's weight and fixed the centre riser. When I measured it exactly there was only a very short distance where the gradient reached 5% and the vertical transitions at the top and bottom were very long and gentle. In your case it will be much easier as the lower end is already on a slope from the helix and the transition will be minimal. If you fix the top rigidly and horizontal the sub-bed will droop down under it's own weight and may well leave you with little or no adjustment necessary. The risers can then be fitted to maintain the natural profile, rather than create the profile. Hope this helps.
It’s an interesting point. However, I really no longer like this product, putting more weight in the locomotive is a much better solution. Regards, Charlie.
I've been trying belt slip dressing from our local car motorfactors which I work for and getting good results so far, lightly spray on the traction tyres and leave overnight trades about £5 a 600ml tin
I always suspected that setting up a Helix would be a booger to deal with, then Charlie brings out a bottle of snot! Sorry Charlie, I couldn't help myself. Love your videos and your bits of Humor thrown in there, really makes things interesting. You and Your Family stay Safe and Happy Greetings from North Carolina in the USA!
Hi Charlie very interesting experiment, I did wonder if one of the reasons it wasn’t as expected because that bullfrog snot would insulate the wheels from the track but as you showed don’t put it on all wheels. Happy new year to you. Dave Hampshire
I've used that stuff to replace traction tyres a few times now. As someone said already, a brush is better to get an even layer and to replace traction tires I normally use 3 applications. Hope the extra loop on the spiral works out for you.
Charlie: Lee beat me to the smart response to a video with which responses could be written many humorous comment but it’s snot worth it., Another great video.
All great stuff again. Despite trying to watch your videos myself, clearly my wife is looking in. Today, on an 'essential' shopping trip for cotton buds....to, uh, help clear ear wax, she asked "what do they help you do on the trainset?" 😂😂. She'll know now!
Hi Charlie first of all respect for going for a two level layout and congratulations on your helix it is a fantastic piece of model engineering. I was thinking about the comment about having a Garrett locomotive for banking and although I think it was probably a tongue-in-cheek comment I don't think it's far wrong. If you think about real railways in times gone by there was a lot of use of banking locos on grades far less than your helix I seem to remember film of Gloucester central station where an 08 shunter was banking a north bound steam hauled freight train through the station as apparently there is a slight gradient and curve northbound even though it's not really noticeable to the naked eye. So I was wondering if it would be possible to incorporate pilot engines in to the working of your layout Or how about taking the motor bogey from a old DMU and incorporateing it in to a MK1 full brake etc, and coupling it behind the loco to give extra traction on the helix probably work wonders with your H2.
Charlie a couple of things for consideration what happens to the BFS where does it end up? possibly on your track does this make it harder to clean the track? with your helix with your steam trains you could run a banker on the helix (extra operating potential) but this is I think less prototypical for UK diesels. You could have a major rethink about your helix, if you have the room, rather than a circle you could have an oval with some short straight sections which will make the climb a bit easier. Food for thought.
I tried Bull Frog snot in the 1990's with the same conclusions as you Charlie. You of course have another options, "remove weights from your coaches". I believe you'll find them running better, with less wear and tare on your locos. This probably won't work for your Pullmans but you could simply double head those. Clearly reducing the attack angle of the helix is going to help a lot. Still consider removing weights in your older style coaches. Keep safe Rich
Thank you Charlie for an interesting video and product I've not heard of before. I presume the dried material is conductive and could be put on all the driving wheels to try and improve adhesion? Looking forward to next video👍
Hi Charlie. Another great video. I wasn't too confident in the bullfrog snot working, but I did feel sad at the disappointment that you got. As for the ten coach train, could you fit a motor bogie to one of the coaches?. This would put a lot less strain on the diesel engine as it does seem like a lot of work to alter the helix. Also there is no guarantee that you won't end up with another gutless loco in the future, so altering the helix now could in theory, save you trouble down the line( Excuse the pun). Best of luck and I'm am thoroughly enjoying your channel. Cheers Chris.
Hey Charlie! Long time fan from across the Atlantic. I've never used Bullfrog snot but I find if fighting a grade that spinning the wheels never helps as it breaks the cohesiveness of the wheels. I've been able to pull 60-70 properly weighted freight cars up 1.5%-2.0% grade as long as I use throttle control. Maybe if instead of attacking the grade at 99 you feather the throttle while using the Bullfrog snot you can pull even more coaches up the big hill! Cheers!
Interesting to know about. I also wonder whether over time you'll end up with it rubbing off and just becoming more dirt to affect the railway operation. I'll give it a miss for my layout. Glad I don't have check it out because you've done it for me. Another Patreon $5 well spent! Cheers to you. Stay safe.
Hi there Thankyou very much I think insperation is your second name .That means I have to get off my you know what and get on with my layout during this shut down so thank you very much
Hi Charlie great video as always very intresting to see you use bull frog snot i Ive heard it mentioned many times but as far as i know you are the only youtuber to show it in action I would be very intrested to know if it is affective in the same way as traditional traction tyes by track cleaning fluids like Inox or Goo gone? Many thanks for taking the time to do these video i have learnt some much from modellers like yourself Keep up the great work Pete
Banking is out of the question as too much pressure would result in an awful derailment. Currently I am re-configuring the Helix to alleviate this issue hopefully! regards Charlie
Hi Charlie. Thanks for the interesting video (once again :-) ). As you suggest towards the end, maybe you should work on improving the weight of these two locos. Might certainly help reduce the slipping. Best regards from France, keep the spirit up!
hello from New Zealand . just a thought as you are about to lower the rise and add another turn to the helix. would like to see you run the test with those two loco's again. guessing here but I think they may do better. Regards Paul
I think the solution you mentioned at the end of the video is the right one. You have room so add another rotation to the Helix. The Warship is a good loco and is heavy and compact. If it cannot perform as you want it then you have to look to the incline. The steam loco you have is another kettle of fish :) I do not think it will have great performance whatever you do. However reducing the steepness of the incline can only help. Always have the least steep incline you space / design will allow. The Bullfrog Snot looks like a good product but it should be a last resort as in many cases you are reducing the number of wheels that pick-up and that is never a good thing.
14:45 better having the best grip on the trailing boggie since when pulling up a train, the weight of the engine tends to apply towards the back of the frame.
Bachmann Warship going classic Fleischmann mode with the traction tyres at the rear end. Is it possible that the incline angle was once copied from a German manual for DC operation? Most German built models (especially the older ones) have the motor in the tender, and anything between 4 to 8 traction tyres fitted.
I was hoping for more from the Snot, but clearly the helix is too steep for some of those locos. I have fingers crossed that another loop will do the trick. I'm just getting over the C19 myself, but no hospital stay thank goodness. Train vids have been great to fill in the time I'd rather be doing, but can't.
Hi Charlie. I’m sure the snot would be a good substitute for a traction tyre, but you can’t expect it to get a heavy train up a steep gradient. As I said in my post last time we’ve found 1 in 60 to be about the limit for getting long trains up from a lower level and that’s on long stretches of straights and gentle curves, not the tight curves of a helix where you’ll get additional drag from wheel flanges. At the end of the day I suppose the locos are designed to run on the flat or to climb a bit to surmount an over-bridge, but not to tackle long steep inclines. I’d be bothered about using a helix where locos routinely struggled, for fear of doing unseen damage and reducing their life expectancy. Bear in mind some models won’t pull long trains on the flat! Setting up a length of track on a long plank and testing various locos on a range of gradients and then applying an extra margin to allow for heavy trains was how we experimented before embarking on a lower level. I’ll be interested to see how you go with slackening the helix. Hope you don’t end up with the lower level on the floor. That’ll be harder on your knees than the duck under you were wanting to avoid! Keep at it. There’s always a way. Every day’s a school day.
An excellent comment Richard. I’ve rejigged the Helix this weekend and sorted out the inclines to be somewhat less aggressive. Hopefully you’ll catch up on the next video. Regards Charlie
Hi there Charlie. Interesting. Regarding the Warship: with coating both axles of the front bogie with snot (tee hee) you've not used the weight distribution of the loco to its best effect. By 'snotting' both axles on the one bogie you are effectively putting a point load (structural engineering term) onto the single bogie which means that you are only using half the weight of the loco for adhesion as half the weight is through one bogie and the other half of the weight is through the other bogie (mechanics of weight distribution). If on the other hand you coated the rear axle of each bogie, then you are placing a udl (uniformly distributed load) onto both bogies thereby taking advantage of the full weight of the loco as the full weight is distributed uniformy giving the adhesion you would need.
Charlie I’m sure someone else has probably mentioned it but what about using neodymium magnets to pull the locos into the power base track? As lead would add to the total weight needing to be moved.
Hi Charlie , well it's more like Bullfrog Did Not! It's strange how many modelers do helix's on many layouts this is a first I've seen this happened. There's another HO scaler in the U.S. that does high speed fast freights Its incredible with almost 100 trains! Otherwise these trains are strange & stubborn on these climbs. Even I wonder maybe traction tires would be better? But on older European & American models were & are the flanges which are a no no on code 83 tracks. Generally code 100 is my main trackage, the structure height adjustments on your model you described is challenging, but don't worry my former layout on a flat surface of HO SCALE Amtrak AEM 7 by Atlas with 5 cars would do exactly what your engines did on screen. This video engines & cars etc. is teaching physics whether we like it or not. 😃 As always I get something watching your channel. I will be watching your previous videos I've been off-line I need a better technology myself 😂. Happy modeling I'll continue viewing.. 👏👏👍🙂🚞🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃
What a great comment Harold. Hopefully if you watch tomorrow’s video all will be revealed, things are much better now the adjustments are complete. Regards Charlie
So I know nothing, but a couple of questions: Would applying the snot to both bogies on the ‘old warship’ help as they are independent of each other. But like having 4wd on a vehicle so that if one set of wheels lose traction, the others may have traction. The other thing is would running the engines around the track help the snot ‘wear in’, eg take the shape of the rails, or rough up a little? As I said, I know nothing about any of this stuff (which I find fantastic btw)!
Charlie, just a thought from my theoretical armchair, but could you perhaps try applying dots of snot to the railhead? This would act like patches of sand on an icy hill and help your vehicle to retain momentum without affecting conductivity. I have no way of testing this but might be worth a shot...
I believe height increases drag and a 2% incline is ok for straight track. That being said -reduce the the height between top and bottom boards , reduce the height between the helix tracks to a minimum for your stock and, reduce the number of turns on the helix to support your maximum train length if you can, to reduce the drag produced naturally by the curved track . Best wishes Dave from Coventry
Love the vids Charlie can't wait to see the layout when it gets on further! Many thanks cameron
Thanks Cameron, I’m so pleased that you enjoy the channel. Regards Charlie
Charlie, your "snot on the bogie" gave me a laugh. Great work!
We are all juveniles at heart Lee. I never noticed the first pun until the edit!
Regards Charlie
Charlie, you're often borrowing things from Mrs Bishop' well why not borrow her nail files and at 90-degree angle to the rails stroke the helix rails with the files to rough them up a bit? When I was a kid I had a dock shunter that had serrated wheels and it worked a treat. My mum said, be nice to the little girls next door and let them play with your trains and the little horrors would fill up my goods train with broken bits of dolls and marbles and the shunter managed the Hornby incline set with no problems.
Sorry Iain, I can’t risk scratching up the rails. If it were to be a mistake I would never be able to replace them. Regards Charlie
I have had Covid' on 13 December. It laid me up in bed (almost ended up in hospital.) I was left with a chest problem where I could hardly walk without coughing so much I became breathless. I have been in bed watching you and some others. I am now able to do some light exercise and I am doing a bit more each day. Keep up the good videos, they are about the only thing that is keeping me sane.
What a heart warming comment Duncan. Stay safe and good luck with your recovery. Regards Charlie
Your videos are always a great help not to spend money on stuff that are not working. Also love that you are spending time on your helix so we are learning from your experience. Thanks for your dedication!
That’s very kind of you to say so Philippe. Regards Charlie
Charlie, you're approaching this in completely the wrong way. All you need is a 4mm scale figure dispensing sand onto the rails in front of the train. Simple!
An excellent point Peter. You wouldn’t by any chance fit the bill would you? Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway I don't think Bernard Cribbins will come out of Retirement for the job,
I love this!! I was trying to get a locomotive from the early 80's back on the track last night, but the traction tires were dried out. I was telling some friends I would need to get some Bullfrog Snot to repair the traction tires. Great to see you doing a video on it. -Heath
I’m so pleased that it suited your needs Heath. Regards Charlie
Snot the result you had hoped for... :) Thanks Charlie for keeping us entertained in this time of isolation
We do our best Malcolm. Regards Charlie
Hello from Germany!
I am always waiting for the new video and again you found an interesting solution. I had the same problem and I tried to increase the Friktion at the Loco by using more weight. The better results I had, started by changing the power pickup at the coaches. I found this idea by a German modellrailroader. It’s easy, cheap
Thanks for sharing Axel.
@@ChadwickModelRailway you are very welcome ...
Another great video from Chadwick!
It's only after using a set of headphones to listen to your videos rather than on the PC speakers, that I realise your opening is "Welcome back to Chadwick Model Railway, I'm Charlie" not what I was hearing "Welcome back to Chadwick Model Railway, I'm charming". Loving the videos, looking forward to the next one.
Wow, what an opening line I might just try that and see if anyone notices! Stay safe mate, regards Charlie, the charming one!
excellent video..never wanted a little loco to make it up a hill so much ..brilliant stuff cheers
The results are getting better ....
stay tuned mate.
Hi Charlie and a happy new year, you've got more patience than I had for my helix. All the issues you are facing eventually lead to me giving in. Fortunately your helix looks to be easier to adjust and more accessible. My intercity trains and 12 wheeled engines usually had enough weight and traction to run. My steam locos didn't work at all, that was why I had a level loop for them to run on. like you, I was learning how to make this work and comments rained in from other modelers on RUclips. I wasn't winning this battle. For me the straw that broke the camel's back was when someone pointed out the extra wear and tear on the motors, it was thought that the helix would half the life of the motors. That news came in when l was at a low ebb and starting to believe that I had made the wrong choice of railway layout. I think your extra layer will go along way in achieving your goal, an option I didn't really have, the incline has to be slight. Just a thought with the traction gloop, I wonder if that would work on my Rocket, despite being level its lack of weight affects its traction. I'm busy with track ballasting and hillside scenery at the moment, hopefully have an update soon. I wish I had your editing skills.... kind regards Jim
Hi Jim, I’ve completely re-jigged the Helix this weekend. You’re right the incline was too steep. Good luck with the rocket, I will put it back in its box! Regards Charlie
Bfs was worth ago Charlie I had some many years ago for replacing so called traction tyre's on my old Lima classes and seemed to work back then. Always been put of having a helix on my model railway just for the sake of these problems you are having at the moment but I'm sure you will master this issue. Look forward to seeing you do slight decrease finger's crossed it will all work out. Thanks for another great video and a testing of a product out and given a honest opinion. Take care Charlie and stay safe kind regards Gary
Thanks Gary, I’ve made some great progress this weekend and hopefully in next week’s video we will reach a satisfactory conclusion. Regards Charlie
Hi there Charlie i have had the same issue as you but some times my locos can't pull my rake of mk1s around a curve and the wheels just slip now that i have seen your video this product you have shown might just be the answer to my problems thankyou for taking the time to put this one together. Cheers and all the best.
Nicholas.
That’s great news Nicholas, I’m so pleased that you found the video useful.
High Balling on the Chadwick RR. Who would have thought. Thanks for testing the product.
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Mike.
Hi Charlie, absolutely brilliantly funny, the little snigger when talking about snot, and the bogie comment nearly made me choke on my lunch, so funny. Anyway off to the loft now to do a bit more on the railway.
I'm so pleased that you enjoyed it Barry. Stay safe. Regards Charlie
I was wondering if it's just liquid rubber, which is a bit cheaper. None the less interesting exercise in getting no where but at least it has proved you need another spiral. Great video again kid, thanks Frank.
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Frank. Regards Charlie
Love the progress Charlie. You’re quite right in what you say about getting stuck in, I’ve got stuck in finally and have begun to make track plans and have been looking at kits of building to practice with etc. All good fun between work! Keep well and keep modelling!
That’s great news Chris, we need to make the most of our time. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Too right! All the best to you.
Bullfrog Snot indeed - what could possibly go wrong (to pinch a catchphrase!). Another truly engaging video Charlie. Thanks for all the effort you put in to making our Fridays so joyful
I'm so pleased that you enjoyed it Ian. Stay safe. Regards Charlie
Thanks as always Charlie. I look forward to seeing how those locos cope on the lesser grade with another loop added. It’s very helpful information which is of benefit to many people. Stay safe and all the best, from Brisbane, down under 👍
I'm so pleased that you enjoyed it Michael. Stay safe. Regards Charlie
As always a great video, it’s difficult to watch as it takes me back to my struggles with exactly the same situation I had 6 years ago, you may remember I messaged you on your first foray into the helix. I also used the power base and bullfrog snot, run the up on the outside of the helix etc etc.
I’m reluctant to tell you the outcome but it did not end well for the helix.
I truly hope you get it to work, my ‘helix’ now has a diameter of almost 8 feet and with a gradient of 1-60 ish, I can now haul 11 coach trains with almost any steam loco, and a 40 wagon coal train hauled by a garret! I had more trouble with freight than I did coaches but that maybe because I wanted most trains hauled by steam.
Thanks and good luck.
What an excellent comment mate. I’ve had to rejig to my Helix and hopefully you’ll see it next week. I have the advantage that I’m not really a steam engine kind of guy but only time will tell. Regards Charlie
Good morning Charlie, great video, it's a pity that there is no conductive material in the Bullfrog Snot, great name, I have tried all sorts of things to increase the amount of pull of locos up my inclines, best I have come up with is turning engines around, seems to work, keep safe and well and busy
Yes Jed, this poor design is sent to try us I’m afraid.
Good stuff Charlie, i found using a very very fine brush and when its dry a trip to the wheel lathe !!
An interesting point Anthony. Regards Charlie
Bullfrog snot on the bogie ! haha.Try applying to opposite wheels on each axle,leaving one for pickup and one for grip.And with one in each corner on diesels on opp.sides. My locos with best traction are articulated with traction tyres and set up like this.Good weight over drivers is best as you know.Even some of my tender drive locos have good traction with tyres.My standard grade is 2.5% or 1in 42,but i have less and more in places. I am making a rack section which will be 7.5%,so working on ideas and testing various combos,needs to zig zag around the stairs to reach the hallway at the top.Keep up the good work Charlie !
Sound advice Simon, thank you. I’m currently rejigging the Helix accordingly. Regards Charlie
Nice one Charlie..... I've not ever used 'Snot' which I guess is a reinforced latex product and does seem by your video to have some merit, although
how long it will last remains to be seen.
As far as helix's go my double helix is graduated with the steepest section at the bottom so if a train manages this section it will lift a train to the top,
the advantage being one can back off an 'overloaded' train without the perils of backing off further up the helix and maybe getting buffer/coupling
lock. If you can add an additional loop in your helix complex... go for it and adding some weight to your locos will certainly be worth while.
As for replacing rubber tyres one way that I have had success with is build up a layer of silicone sealant in the groove and allow to throughly
cure. Another which I'm testing out is shink-wrap tubing. Starting with tubing slightly under size and stretching it into the groove followed by a
final fixing with a dunk in boiling water to bed it down. (The water must be boiling). Thus far this method looks to be working.
An interesting point Indigo. None of my locos have traction tyre facilities. So that option is not open to me. However I am adding an extra layer to the helix and lowering the layers to decrease the incline. Regards Charlie
Who would have thought that 5 minutes of Charlie holding a cocktail stick would be interesting? Wow, lockdown does lower expectations 😁😁. I loved the “aft” set of wheels comment too, RN breaks through the Civvie veneer... And wasn’t a Snotty a Midshipman?
I thought it interesting how both Loco’s sort of sped off about 1/3 of the up. Perhaps the gradient eases off a tad?
Anyway great to see things developing.
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. It’s just so happens today I’ve completely rehashed the helix gradient, and hopefully have removed any ambiguities with the incline.
Nice video, I only run trains on a level track but found those locos that need tyres, quite often the replacements are thicker and course the loco to run lopsided. So I found that heat shrink tubing a good replacement, the trick is to find the closest size as it doesn't stretch ...happy modelling stay safe
Great tip Mark, many thanks.
Try, try, try again, and always with some humour thrown in, another great video Charlie 👍
I think next weeks episode will be even better Simon. Regards Charlie
Congratulations Charlie on passing 40,000 subscribers. Regards Greg
Thanks Greg, it did put a smile on my face, stay safe, regards Charlie
Great video Charlie!
I might have few suggestions for you.
First, try to apply bullfrog snot just on one wheel per axle and diagonally within one boogie. You will get more even moment of force distribution.
Second, try to avoid wheel slipping. Not only it grinds both wheels and rails but more importantly it also decreases overall power output. Coefficient of adhesion is greater than coefficient of friction, therefore you will get better reaction force and better moment of force.
I am looking for the next video!
Great comment Blackbird. Regards Charlie
Hey Charlie, thanks again for doing the hard work researching and testing products for us. I could see you had enough clearance to lower the helix' and then you admit you had increased them! One thing noticeable is the speed is inconsistent even with the full train on the helix. Check the back-to-backs and run a track gauge over it, wheels could be binding.
I found the snag but it wasn’t the gauge. I explain all on Friday.
Hi Charlie. When you started I got very excited at the prospect of my Hornby Packet no longer stalling coming out of Bournemouth West with 4 up. Alas. Good to try these things though - if we hadnt experimented we'd all still be living in caves. I certainly endorse your comment about activity rather than lockdown moaning. Its a good opportunity. My regards
Thanks Martin, it’s great to have you onboard.
Very interesting... Nice video! 👌
Thank you! Cheers, regards Charlie
Oh well Charlie, I must say you are up to a challenge, nothing ventured and all that. Your always entertaining and I do agree with you about getting out there and doing something (I don't mean go outside) although until furloughed I did work a couple of days a week, I don't know how I had time to go to work, between my railway and woodturning (in my very cold garage ) stopping for tea with the wife (I look on it as care work) my days are full, the thing I do miss is the grandchildren. We have to make the best of it take care of yourselfs stay safe, see you on the next one Eddy xx
What a heartwarming comment Eddy. Regards Charlie
An interesting video Charlie. I wonder if the Snot eventually leaves a residue on the track? I've been following your helix series with great interest as I've been in the process of realigning the gradients on my layout (not helix's) due to traction issues, and I was curious when you mentioned the revised 1:35ish gradient compared to the original 1:42. My original steepest gradient was 1:30, on which some of my locos performed very poorly. Now my steepest gradient is 1:40 and what originally couldn't accomplish the 1:30 now performs faultlessly at 1:40. When you mentioned your similar gradient stats, it made me wonder if there's an optimum gradient (magic number) that works in general, that being something in the vicinity of 1:40?... just a thought. As always, I thoroughly enjoy watching your channel, take care, Julian.
I spent this week sorting out the gradients Julian. Fridays videos you should find very useful. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, interesting stuff, I was really happy with my test runs on my helix until i tried the steamers, they struggled. As I had also used a screwed rod construction I added another level to the helix and it solved the issues.
Interestingly, that’s exactly what I’m up to now. Regards Charlie
As always Charlie a good job comes together!
Thanks Larry, I’m so pleased that you liked it. Regards Charlie
Very interesting and entertaining as usual Charlie. Thank you.
You’re most welcome Philip. Regards Charlie
Excellent review. And seems right on. Thanks!
Thanks James, I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie,
Thank you for a fun presentation of Bullfrog Snot (acronym not recommended). I achieved better results by coating the flanges, as well as the wheels, with a 3mm brush.
I smiled all the way through your most amusing video,
Arthur Rae
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Arthur, and many thanks for sponsoring it. I haven’t given up yet, not by along shot. I am currently reconfiguring the Helix, and then I’ll give it another go. Regards Charlie
Entertaining as always Charlie ! Cheers Euan
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Euan.
Hi Charlie, I think that the Bullfrog Snot can still be of some help. I think I'll try and find it. The Chap in the hospital my heart goes out to you. I'm getting ready to go in for heart surgery and I will definitely be watching train videos. Hope you have a quick recovery God Speed, Chris
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting Chris. Stay safe mate, regards Charlie
Your first thought must have been that ‘It’s Snot going to work’!.............thanks Charlie for all your R&D, priceless!
Thanks Tony, I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Regards Charlie
Nice humor Charlie, had a good laugh, you really most say nice going. While it wasn't a great success you musst admit you did learn a lot from it. Looking forward to seeing how it all comes together down the road....thanks for sharing 👍👍👍👍👍😃
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it and it made you smile. Regards Charlie
Charlie: You do brighten the day!
What a heart warming comment Ken. Stay safe. Regards Charlie
Sounds like a great excuse to keep a Garrett at the bottom of the helix ready for banking duties, just like the prototype.
I think that would end up in an awful derailment Andy, pushing all that lot up to Helix. Regards Charlie
*gasp* Andy dropped the "P bomb"!!!
Is there a dedicated bullfrog farm to collect the snot !! . Tough job. Wholeheartedly agree about not sitting around, even a short walk will do wonders for your state of mind. Must get on I have a new fiddle yard to wire up. Keep safe
I'm so pleased that you enjoyed it David. Stay safe. Regards Charlie
Thanks again for a great video
Thanks Dave I’m so pleased that you found it interesting. Regards Charlie
Another great video, I have a multi level helix on my layout and yes your rise definitely too steep for the diameter you have. My helix is similar construction but minimal space using the tallest freight wagon I will be running however mine spans 1.6meters across. I found my earlier one of less than this sure did take a toll on coach numbers vs loco unless double heading.
But layout looking great as always :). Just playing catch up from months ago lol.
An interesting point. Yes I am somewhat restricted in room but hopefully the Helix will work well. Regards Charlie
Hope so as well. Keep up the great work :)
Another fantastic video Charlie! I had similar findings when I reviewed the Bullfrog snot. I did find however that in combination with a "power base" solution the results were actually impressive, mind my helix is a hair over 2% and even I conceded its too steep. Regardless keep at it, the right balance will yield results! Looking forward to the next one, Cheers, Ben.
A great comment Ben, thank you I’ve just rejigged the Helix and all will be revealed in next week to video.
Hi Charlie I wait patiently for your next vid, a pleasure watching.
I think that it will be a good one!
Well you have to try these things. so thanks for showing your results. Please could you do a comparison with and without the magnets also - to compare the benefit (or not) of the powerbase plates ? Thank you.
Hi Dave you need to look back at a couple of my videos I’ve already done the comparison with them without the magnets. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Thanks Charlie, I hadn't realised I'd missed #118. keep up the great work. I admire your perseverance.
Hi Charlie. That' what I said before about lowering the helix undo the nuts and lower the levels though as you know you can only go so low otherwise the train will get stuck Yet another great video Charlie..
Thanks Tony, rest assured the clearance is minimal. Regards Charlie
On some of my Hornby steam locos where needed I have removed the geared set of drivers and machined a groove in them and fitted Hornby traction tyres. This has worked with no problems and they are run at a constant speed round the layout. Somewhere between speed step 25 and 40. I don’t have a helix but do have a gradient.
That must be quite an engineering feat Alec, on a mini lathe I imagine
Great video Charlie, as always. Charlie I'm sure you've thought of this already, but maybe not. The gradient between the top of the helix and the existing layout will be steeper than you might expect by just measuring the horizontal and vertical distances. You will need vertical transitions curves at both ends and with long fixed chassis locos they will need to be "gentle". The effect will be to shorten the horizontal distance and therefore steepen the gradient. Good luck with the installation. Take care and keep safe. john c
A good point John. And I am currently looking into the mathematics. The Helix has been reconfigured and I’m adding an extra layer so hopefully that should do the trick.
@@ChadwickModelRailway I found the following method worked very well. I had level track at the top and bottom of the incline with a height difference of approx 80mm and a horizontal distance of just over 2m. I wanted to restrict the steepest gradient to 5%. I slackened off or removed all the interim risers that I had already fitted and then rigidly secured the 9mm plywood sub-bed at the top absolutely level to match up to the existing. I then repeated the same horizontal fixing at the lower level. The 9mm bed found it's own shape (a very gentle "S"), which was very close to the desired profile. I lifted it slightly in the middle to compensate for it's weight and fixed the centre riser. When I measured it exactly there was only a very short distance where the gradient reached 5% and the vertical transitions at the top and bottom were very long and gentle. In your case it will be much easier as the lower end is already on a slope from the helix and the transition will be minimal. If you fix the top rigidly and horizontal the sub-bed will droop down under it's own weight and may well leave you with little or no adjustment necessary. The risers can then be fitted to maintain the natural profile, rather than create the profile. Hope this helps.
Hi John ,what a very interesting comment. I shall certainly consider your suggestion as I work on this later today. Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway Hopefully it went well today :-) Look forward to seeing the end result. Take care and keep safe john c
I was wondering if you put small brush on . To the rails on the grade for grip might work as well in a way so you won't get a power loss.
It’s an interesting point. However, I really no longer like this product, putting more weight in the locomotive is a much better solution. Regards, Charlie.
I've been trying belt slip dressing from our local car motorfactors which I work for and getting good results so far, lightly spray on the traction tyres and leave overnight trades about £5 a 600ml tin
Great tip Alex, regards Charlie
I always suspected that setting up a Helix would be a booger to deal with, then Charlie brings out a bottle of snot! Sorry Charlie, I couldn't help myself.
Love your videos and your bits of Humor thrown in there, really makes things interesting.
You and Your Family stay Safe and Happy Greetings from North Carolina in the USA!
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Robert, it was a bit of a giggle. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie very interesting experiment, I did wonder if one of the reasons it wasn’t as expected because that bullfrog snot would insulate the wheels from the track but as you showed don’t put it on all wheels. Happy new year to you. Dave Hampshire
I’m so pleased that you found it interesting David.
Regards Charlie.
Great Video as ever Charlie! Best wishes from Germany Günter
Glad that you enjoyed it Gunter.
I've used that stuff to replace traction tyres a few times now. As someone said already, a brush is better to get an even layer
and to replace traction tires I normally use 3 applications.
Hope the extra loop on the spiral works out for you.
Thanks for the advice Gerry
Very difficult to make watching something dry interesting :) Well done!
I do my best mate. Regards Charlie
Charlie: Lee beat me to the smart response to a video with which responses could be written many humorous comment but it’s snot worth it., Another great video.
These jokes aside to give up my nose Ken! Snot funny anymore! Regards Charlie
@@ChadwickModelRailway ROTGLMFAO! Felt sorry for the little engine that couldn’t. Was sad to see it spinning her drive wheels.
THANKS CHARLIE GREAT VID
Cheers mate I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it. Regards Charlie
👍👍😜😎
All great stuff again. Despite trying to watch your videos myself, clearly my wife is looking in.
Today, on an 'essential' shopping trip for cotton buds....to, uh, help clear ear wax, she asked "what do they help you do on the trainset?" 😂😂. She'll know now!
Darn it Ian, yours secrets aren’t safe anymore! Regards Charlie.
I know you were probably joking, but, cotton buds are the worst things to use on earwax, they just push it further in.
Closing words very good.
Thanks Peter, I’m so pleased that you agree. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie first of all respect for going for a two level layout and congratulations on your helix it is a fantastic piece of model engineering.
I was thinking about the comment about having a Garrett locomotive for banking and although I think it was probably a tongue-in-cheek comment I don't think it's far wrong.
If you think about real railways in times gone by there was a lot of use of banking locos on grades far less than your helix I seem to remember film of Gloucester central station where an 08 shunter was banking a north bound steam hauled freight train through the station as apparently there is a slight gradient and curve northbound even though it's not really noticeable to the naked eye.
So I was wondering if it would be possible to incorporate pilot engines in to the working of your layout
Or how about taking the motor bogey from a old DMU and incorporateing it in to a MK1 full brake etc, and coupling it behind the loco to give extra traction on the helix probably work wonders with your H2.
Banking on the helix could end in a massive derailment. Placing another motor in a coach/full brake is a very interesting option.
I fancy sneaking in to CMR and wiring up that last piece of track just to see Charlie’s face!
How could you even think of such a thing!
.. I have to confess I was wondering if it was really going to stop - I have seen other 'safety systems' fail before... :-)
Great video as always..
@@ChadwickModelRailway best get an arrestor net in place to counter sneaky pranksters!
Charlie a couple of things for consideration what happens to the BFS where does it end up? possibly on your track does this make it harder to clean the track? with your helix with your steam trains you could run a banker on the helix (extra operating potential) but this is I think less prototypical for UK diesels. You could have a major rethink about your helix, if you have the room, rather than a circle you could have an oval with some short straight sections which will make the climb a bit easier. Food for thought.
I made some great progress on the Helix this weekend Neil. Hopefully in the next video you will be pleasantly surprised.
Thanks Charlie, much appreciated.
You’re most welcome Ed.
Bullfrog Snot is absolute magic. I have not bought a traction tyre in years and the small jar lasts forever.
It's certainly a useful product MFT.
I tried Bull Frog snot in the 1990's with the same conclusions as you Charlie. You of course have another options, "remove weights from your coaches". I believe you'll find them running better, with less wear and tare on your locos. This probably won't work for your Pullmans but you could simply double head those. Clearly reducing the attack angle of the helix is going to help a lot. Still consider removing weights in your older style coaches. Keep safe Rich
Thanks for your comment Rich. However I have made some good progress on the Helix this weekend. Regards Charlie
Thank you Charlie for an interesting video and product I've not heard of before. I presume the dried material is conductive and could be put on all the driving wheels to try and improve adhesion? Looking forward to next video👍
No Simon it is not conductive, hence I left the other wheels of the product.
Regards Charlie.
another great video, thankyou
Thanks Andy, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie. Another great video. I wasn't too confident in the bullfrog snot working, but I did feel sad at the disappointment that you got. As for the ten coach train, could you fit a motor bogie to one of the coaches?. This would put a lot less strain on the diesel engine as it does seem like a lot of work to alter the helix. Also there is no guarantee that you won't end up with another gutless loco in the future, so altering the helix now could in theory, save you trouble down the line( Excuse the pun). Best of luck and I'm am thoroughly enjoying your channel. Cheers Chris.
I’ve completely rejigged the Helix this week so hopefully on Friday, you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
Hey Charlie! Long time fan from across the Atlantic. I've never used Bullfrog snot but I find if fighting a grade that spinning the wheels never helps as it breaks the cohesiveness of the wheels. I've been able to pull 60-70 properly weighted freight cars up 1.5%-2.0% grade as long as I use throttle control. Maybe if instead of attacking the grade at 99 you feather the throttle while using the Bullfrog snot you can pull even more coaches up the big hill! Cheers!
An interesting comment Adam, and advice I will certainly try. Regards Charlie
Would putting a slight upwards slope (gradient) on the lower (currently flat) approach help? Then you can reduce the gradient on the helix slightly?
It is something I have certainly considered Ray. But we’ll see how we get on with tweaking the Helix.
Interesting to know about. I also wonder whether over time you'll end up with it rubbing off and just becoming more dirt to affect the railway operation. I'll give it a miss for my layout. Glad I don't have check it out because you've done it for me. Another Patreon $5 well spent! Cheers to you. Stay safe.
Thanks Chris, I so pleased that you found it interesting. Stay safe, regards Charlie
Hi there Thankyou very much I think insperation is your second name .That means I have to get off my you know what and get on with my layout during this shut down so thank you very much
That’s great news Paul, and I do hope your efforts are successful. Regards Charlie
Hi Charlie great video as always very intresting to see you use bull frog snot i Ive heard it mentioned many times but as far as i know you are the only youtuber to show it in action I would be very intrested to know if it is affective in the same way as traditional traction tyes by track cleaning fluids like Inox or Goo gone?
Many thanks for taking the time to do these video i have learnt some much from modellers like yourself
Keep up the great work Pete
I’m so pleased that you enjoyed it Pete. Only time will tell on its effectiveness, once the helix can be used in anger.
Hi Charlie. Would it be better to double head/consist the loco's that struggle going up the helix or have a loco banking from the rear of the train.
Banking is out of the question as too much pressure would result in an awful derailment. Currently I am re-configuring the Helix to alleviate this issue hopefully! regards Charlie
Hi Charlie. Thanks for the interesting video (once again :-) ). As you suggest towards the end, maybe you should work on improving the weight of these two locos. Might certainly help reduce the slipping. Best regards from France, keep the spirit up!
I’m so pleased that you found the video interesting Antoine.
hello from New Zealand . just a thought as you are about to lower the rise and add another turn to the helix. would like to see you run the test with those two loco's again. guessing here but I think they may do better.
Regards
Paul
Yes Paul, I will rerun those locos once the Helix has been adjusted. Regards Charlie
I think the solution you mentioned at the end of the video is the right one. You have room so add another rotation to the Helix. The Warship is a good loco and is heavy and compact. If it cannot perform as you want it then you have to look to the incline. The steam loco you have is another kettle of fish :) I do not think it will have great performance whatever you do. However reducing the steepness of the incline can only help. Always have the least steep incline you space / design will allow. The Bullfrog Snot looks like a good product but it should be a last resort as in many cases you are reducing the number of wheels that pick-up and that is never a good thing.
A great comment, and with the changes I made this weekend to the Helix we should be home and dry.
14:45 better having the best grip on the trailing boggie since when pulling up a train, the weight of the engine tends to apply towards the back of the frame.
An interesting point Jean, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie, looks very much like green masking fluid! Which also makes a rubberise film.
Yes it does Chris. Regards Charlie
Hi, I use Bullfrog snot to replace broken or missing traction tyres on some of the Hornby models that still use them with great results
Thanks Peter, that is good news. Regards Charlie
Interesting experiment. One option with the h1 if all else fails is consisting on the helix to replicate either double heading or banking.
I’ve never been a steam modeller so keeping it to one side won’t be a problem. But it does make a very useful test vehicle. Regards Charlie
I do have the BS but have not use it before after buying and the cap rusted and some of the rust drop into the BS and not sure if it can still be use.
I'm sure that it will be just fine.
Bachmann Warship going classic Fleischmann mode with the traction tyres at the rear end.
Is it possible that the incline angle was once copied from a German manual for DC operation? Most German built models (especially the older ones) have the motor in the tender, and anything between 4 to 8 traction tyres fitted.
Sadly none of mine have the option to fit traction tyres. I shall change the helix configuration instead. Regards Charlie
Hopefully you will give it another go when you've reset the helix .cheers for another good video Charlie
I’m busy with the Helix as we speak Alex. Regards Charlie
I was hoping for more from the Snot, but clearly the helix is too steep for some of those locos. I have fingers crossed that another loop will do the trick.
I'm just getting over the C19 myself, but no hospital stay thank goodness. Train vids have been great to fill in the time I'd rather be doing, but can't.
At least you’re on the road to recovery Frank. Good luck, regards Charlie
Hi Charlie. I’m sure the snot would be a good substitute for a traction tyre, but you can’t expect it to get a heavy train up a steep gradient. As I said in my post last time we’ve found 1 in 60 to be about the limit for getting long trains up from a lower level and that’s on long stretches of straights and gentle curves, not the tight curves of a helix where you’ll get additional drag from wheel flanges. At the end of the day I suppose the locos are designed to run on the flat or to climb a bit to surmount an over-bridge, but not to tackle long steep inclines. I’d be bothered about using a helix where locos routinely struggled, for fear of doing unseen damage and reducing their life expectancy. Bear in mind some models won’t pull long trains on the flat! Setting up a length of track on a long plank and testing various locos on a range of gradients and then applying an extra margin to allow for heavy trains was how we experimented before embarking on a lower level. I’ll be interested to see how you go with slackening the helix. Hope you don’t end up with the lower level on the floor. That’ll be harder on your knees than the duck under you were wanting to avoid! Keep at it. There’s always a way. Every day’s a school day.
An excellent comment Richard. I’ve rejigged the Helix this weekend and sorted out the inclines to be somewhat less aggressive. Hopefully you’ll catch up on the next video. Regards Charlie
Hi there Charlie. Interesting. Regarding the Warship: with coating both axles of the front bogie with snot (tee hee) you've not used the weight distribution of the loco to its best effect. By 'snotting' both axles on the one bogie you are effectively putting a point load (structural engineering term) onto the single bogie which means that you are only using half the weight of the loco for adhesion as half the weight is through one bogie and the other half of the weight is through the other bogie (mechanics of weight distribution). If on the other hand you coated the rear axle of each bogie, then you are placing a udl (uniformly distributed load) onto both bogies thereby taking advantage of the full weight of the loco as the full weight is distributed uniformy giving the adhesion you would need.
You’re right David, I certainly did miss a trick on that front. Paragraph regards Charlie
Charlie I’m sure someone else has probably mentioned it but what about using neodymium magnets to pull the locos into the power base track? As lead would add to the total weight needing to be moved.
That is what I used on the 9F as supplied with the PowerBase.
@@ChadwickModelRailway Apologies, keep up the the great work.
Hi Charlie , well it's more like Bullfrog Did Not! It's strange how many modelers do helix's on many layouts this is a first I've seen this happened. There's another HO scaler in the U.S. that does high speed fast freights Its incredible with almost 100 trains! Otherwise these trains are strange & stubborn on these climbs. Even I wonder maybe traction tires would be better? But on older European & American models were & are the flanges which are a no no on code 83 tracks. Generally code 100 is my main trackage, the structure height adjustments on your model you described is challenging, but don't worry my former layout on a flat surface of HO SCALE Amtrak AEM 7 by Atlas with 5 cars would do exactly what your engines did on screen. This video engines & cars etc. is teaching physics whether we like it or not. 😃 As always I get something watching your channel. I will be watching your previous videos I've been off-line I need a better technology myself 😂. Happy modeling I'll continue viewing.. 👏👏👍🙂🚞🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃
What a great comment Harold. Hopefully if you watch tomorrow’s video all will be revealed, things are much better now the adjustments are complete. Regards Charlie
Aft axle - once a sailor... Video reminded me of being ages 9 and seeing how many coaches each of my locos could pull...
I’m sorry Mark but I do like full-size trains wherever possible. Regards Charlie, aged 9 1/2.
@@ChadwickModelRailway Quite right too...
So I know nothing, but a couple of questions:
Would applying the snot to both bogies on the ‘old warship’ help as they are independent of each other. But like having 4wd on a vehicle so that if one set of wheels lose traction, the others may have traction.
The other thing is would running the engines around the track help the snot ‘wear in’, eg take the shape of the rails, or rough up a little?
As I said, I know nothing about any of this stuff (which I find fantastic btw)!
The bullfrog snot is nonconductive so you have to be cautious on how many axles you apply it to. Regards Charlie
Charlie, just a thought from my theoretical armchair, but could you perhaps try applying dots of snot to the railhead? This would act like patches of sand on an icy hill and help your vehicle to retain momentum without affecting conductivity. I have no way of testing this but might be worth a shot...
An interesting idea Nick, and if I get any more problems they may well consider it. Regards Charlie
I believe height increases drag and a 2% incline is ok for straight track. That being said -reduce the the height between top and bottom boards , reduce the height between the helix tracks to a minimum for your stock and, reduce the number of turns on the helix to support your maximum train length if you can, to reduce the drag produced naturally by the curved track . Best wishes Dave from Coventry
Sound advice Dave. Regards Charlie