Always been a 'set wedge' player - and tried out a friend's vokey sms9 48deg - I realized one advantage of having this wedge in my bag is it was so much easier getting close to the pin on those awkward 40-50 yard bunker shots. The club slides really well under the ball like I'm using my normal specialty wedges (using the Miura K Grind 54/58 wedges).
This is a really cool video. Even if replacing a PW isn't super obtainable for most amateurs I bet that this test could show how a set GW vs a specialized GW may work for the more everyday golfer
I’m halfway through but that’s what I’m thinking, too - might be time to look into it! I like that Vokey has such great options and it would pair well with my T100s. Have a Vokey 54.10 and a 58.04 but just switched the 58 for a Jaws.
I routinely check out the P.G.A. & L.P.G.A W.I.T.B. Looking for trends that might help my game. What i see most of the time is that the pro’s seem to carry only to a 9 Iron, and add a specialty gap wedge. Thanks for the great video guys and keep up the great work. Thanks Tony
Most pros consider their “pw” as their gap wedge. Then they have sand a lob maybe depending on course and conditions. Vs an amateur having 4 wedges including pw from the set.
I have just rewatched this. Swapping irons out this season and going to go with 46 (bent to 45); 50; 54 & 58 with 6i-9i. Moved to 4&5 hybrids two seasons ago and also put a 7w in the bag. Index 7.2 and this sort of friendlier setup and sharpening up the scoring clubs will be part of the key to unlocking category 1!
Great video! But for myself I will stick with full set PW. It’s a full swing club only for me. Anything inside 100 yards will be one of my other specialty wedges.
Sm6 46* (f grind 8* bounce) checking in. I used cavity back and also semi GI irons (zx5) where the set PW just had too much pop off the face around the green and didn’t have great feel with partial shots. I have since changed my set composition to zx7 7-P and prefer the zx7 pw to the vokey 46* as the zx7 pw has really nice (to me) turf interaction and the faces on the zx7 aren’t as hot and have way better feel on partial shots. Another factor Ian mentioned briefly is shafts; I prefer my shaft choice in the zx7 pw to the Sm6 46* for full shots. I know the TXG lads said a specialty wedge may not benefit higher h’cap players but I think the circumstance I identified above show where their are some benefits to playing a pw different from your 5-9 irons if you are a feel first type player or want to increase your golf feel IQ that could be muted in a iron set pw. Great video lads. Keep up the good work!
I feel that shaft weight and flex is crucial on partial shots, feeling the head in transition. This then becomes a consideration on type of pitching wedge and it's main use for you.
I moved to a 46 Vokey SM8 instead of my MP20 HMB PW this year. I found a material improvement on partial swings and control, sufficient that i have actually been able to move to a LW, GW and the 46 setup and get an extra long club in the bag (2 iron as a wind club and backup driving club when the driver is off). Has probably in combination knocked 3 or 4 shots off my rounds. Nice to see another test validating it.
Great video TXG. Few comments on this topic, FWIW...(I fully expect a few TLDRs). i) On the full shots, SM9 produced a higher ball flight, slightly higher spin rates and I believe a higher descent angle. Slightly more targety, throwin' darts. ii) The use of a specialty wedge could/would change the player's mindset. Control trumps Power. If I am hitting a Gap, SW or Lob - I'm typically stepping into the shot thinking about the resulting putt. I love my PW, but when I pull a PW, I'm normally thinking about distance first (does it get there? wind? trajectory), and then proximity to the target/pin. For me, the PW is the highest lofted of the power clubs...as soon as I transition into GW - or shorter distance clubs, I'm not thinking about power as my first priority anymore (that decision has already been made). I could see myself starting to hit partial 9i if I had a specialty PW in my bag. iii) I also think a player might be much more inclined to replace an individual specialty PW with a fresh wedge sooner. I'm thinking that, for me, if the PW is regarded as part of an irons set - I wouldn't really think about replacing a single iron in the set due to groove deterioration - I would be thinking more 'Is it time for a fresh set of irons'. Replacing/refreshing only the PW with a brand new club with fresh grooves would have a definite impact on performance. iv) The sound at impact of the Vokey on Ian's shots with the Vokey was very nice as well. v) Wet wedge performance - superior in the SM9. Love the depth you good folks provide when you unpack a topic like this. Awesome content.
It's hard to find info on set GW/AW, but often seems like they differ quite a bit from the rest of the set in terms of looking more like a wedge than an iron. Would love to see more set GWs on the channel and a follow up to this one comparing set vs specialty... particularly from a more techy iron set.
I love this video. I was recommended a set gw but soon realised as I like chipping with a specialty gw but one positive is I've learnt other longer shots that I wouldn't have done before
Loved it gents and perfect timing, as its wedge buying season for me. So a question for you all, if I may? I’m a short hitter for a 41yo guy weighing heavier than I should lol. I currently game Driver, 3wd, 5wd, 4hyb, 5i-PW (in my stock MP18 MMC’s) 50°, 54°, 58°, Putter. Now then, my head pro just through my head under a bus the other day, and suggested I should go 46° PW, 52°, 58° ( I used to have that set up) so I can have more options for distance and learn more feel shots with the 52° & 58°. What would your thoughts be? If I was to come to a fitting at your facility, as a consumer what would you be advising me? As an example and this is going off my Arccos Smart distances - Driver 238yd total, 7i 149yd (carry averages 143yd last time I gap tested), PW 110 (carry average around 107). I know it’s though to answer without a live observation. But I’d be really interested on your thoughts.
Awesome video. I’ve just recently switched to playing a SM8 46 in place of my PW. It’s a club I use a lot for partial swings so makes sense to get that little bit of extra performance.. you just just solidified my decision 🤙🏻
The wet test was incredible insight. Can only imagine the combo of wet and rough would widen the gap even further. There are a lot of inflated gains in other equipment categories but this one seems like a no brainer to try this year.
I would like to see it again when Ian wasn't pulling the set wedge more and likely lowering the spin rates. I don't think that the true difference is going to be that 1k mark, closer to 500-600.
Good vid, thx. However, I'd have enjoyed seeing a new Miura PW v the Vokey. The year's use would affect the face of the Miura. According to Vokey (I believe) a wedge has about 75 rounds of play before it's spin performance is affected. You guys are finding your groove, keep up the good work.
Lets not forget the specialty wedges are available with more grinds and bounce variations to be a more versatile club in your set. I actually play an sm8 over my set pw and it was pleasing to see this video to offer some level of reassurance as im regularly questioned about it
In my own testing with the gap wedge slot, specialty wedge beats set wedge across three different iron sets. Glad to see your testing reflecting similar results.
Enjoyed the test. It shows that you need to get fit for clubs that fit you and your swing no matter the club brand, type or makeup, so long as they work best for you and improve your scores.
How about the shafts for the wedges? It would be very interesting to see a test with a specialized wedge with a shaft matching the iron set versus a specialized wedge with a wedge shaft.
The problem with that is that it's very player specific, and is based on how they approach their wedge game. A 'wedge shaft' could be heavier, lighter, softer, or stiffer depending on what the player is trying to do.
@@Ryan-fx7jx I only just saw this and wanted to share my experience. This is particular to me as I am 57 and losing a bit of pop. I game Mizuno MP18 MMCs with 95g Nippon steel. Decided to go with Mizuno T20s in 50, 54, 58 degree with the same shaft. This proved to be great in the 50 for full and 3/4 shots, but a disaster for chipping and partials in general. For me, lack of weight led to lack of feel and consistency. Temporarily gone back to my very old Mizunos in 52 and 58 with S300s. Gapping is more difficult, but accuracy much improved.
Thats not the point of this video. They isolated any spin differences due to grooves in the first two tests: they both performed identical. So we know there isn't any spin differences. The reason he bagged the Vokey was that in wet shots the Vokey retained spin. This isnt grooves, because we normalized that already by showing both spin the same. The difference came from the coating tech that new wedges have that retain spin when wet.
@@MrAhuraMazda Ping is the only company using a coating to help retain spin when wet. Everyone else is milling between the grooves to add grip on the ball. This milling also wears off fairly quickly. If fresh grooves didn't matter tour pros wouldn't replace their wedges several times a year. No doubt the Vokey was better in that test. The question is would it be that much better after a season of use. I don't know the answer but I would love to see the test.
Love the channel guys! Will you do a segment, that shows performance differences related to bounce? Same lofts, same shafts, etc., and three different bounces: 6°, 9°, 12° I've decided that I'm moving to more bounce in my wedges in an effort to eliminate some of my fat shots.
Back in the day, iron manufacturers always produced a sand wedge and typically gap/approach wedge that matched the set (Wilson, MacGregor, Hogan and so on). Myself like most, started putting in specialty wedges in the late 90’s but for me, I always struggled with gapping to my iron set due to design differences (especially when I switched to the cavity back Mizuno’s for example). Now, maybe we’re coming full circle eh? Tour pro (Frittelli) carrying a SW matched to his iron set? Ya man! I now have Apex pro’s AW-5 iron and I my game from 130yds in has tightened up significantly with that 115-120 yd AW that is just like hitting my 125-130 PW. I’d love a sand wedge that matches as well like Frittelli! :D
My clubs - what I have left in the loft (been out due to injury) - I have a full set of Ping i3+ blades with PX 5.5 (RP Rifle satin) 3-PW, with MB wedges that now have LZ 6.0 48/52/56/60. I much prefer the versatility of the 48' MB over the i3+. Full shot distance is the same - trajectory is different due to the PX v LZ. If it's windier I would take the i3.
I agree there is a noticable difference in the wet test BUT how much of that can you attribute to the wear on your current gamer PW vs a brand new SM9? Or in other words if both clubs were brand new do you think there would still be that much difference??
I just switched to a SM8 gap wedge with my fitting last season. T200 PW is 43*, so went to 48* Vokey instead of set GW. Has been a great move thus far, just so much more precision. Only had it for last month and a half of the season, but confidence on partials is way up. Looking to replace my SM6 sand wedge this season.
I play Mizuno MP33 blades and some years ago had all my irons bent 2 degrees stronger so my PW went down to 46. When the Vokey SM7's came out, I replaced my Bettinardi 56 & 60 wedges with Vokey SM7's 50/54/58 (full custom fitting). When the grooves on my PW wore down too far, I replaced it with an SM8 46 deg so all my wedges feel and perform the same.
How about the same test for higher handicaps using a matching GW(t300, JPX hot metal) vs a CBX zipcore or mackdaddy cb or glide. Even a PW test considering the new cbx zipcore is available in lower lofts
We require sets that don't have 5° between short irons, 4° between mid irons and 3° between long irons. Especially slower swingspeeds, which being the ageing, majority of the buying public, we are. Equal increments of possibly bigger at the long iron end is better. 48° PW followed by 5° increments would suit us better. eg 48°, 43°, 38°, 33°, 28°, 23°. You'd be doing well to launch that last club. A hybrid would be better. So a 5 iron set would do the job.
Everything in here suggests the specialty wedge holds an advantage over set wedge, but you led in with the fact that you fit the vast majority of your clients with a set wedge. Could you speak more to that before we all throw our set wedges in the basement?
I think the issue for the avg golfer is going to be forgiveness. Not that you need a ton on a shorter club, but if an avg golfer struggles with finding center, the design of the set wedge being similar to the irons is probably going to be a bit more forgiving if you hit it off the toe.
Great stuff guys, making me rethink my setup. Did you test wet full swing? If you did but didn't put it in the video was there a difference like in the partial shot?
Awesome video and something I have been interested in for a while! Looks like I have a new vokey hitting the bag this season. While only a fitting can tell, do you expect this to impact how folks combo their irons. I was thinking I would combo 8-PW but now with the vokey in the PW slot is it worth just have 2 irons (8-9) different from the rest of the set?
I paid too much money for this 921 Forged gap wedge (4-G) to take it outta my bag and exchange it for a 50/52 degree Callaway X-Forged $35 EBay special to match it to my 54* and 60* wedges. 😉😂 Honestly, that’s what I need to do (or go 52* and 58* and dump the Gap wedge entirely to open up another space up top).
Great video guys as usual , how about staying with same shaft as your gap wedge? As an example I have AMT in my gap wedge. Can you order SM9 wedge with the AMT shaft or would you stay with the standard shaft?
I have the 4-GW T200's. The PW is 43 and GW is 48. I carry 3 additional Vokey wedges - 52, 56, 60. I am curious if I should switch the 48 for another Vokey based on this testing.
My question would be; some modern sets aimed at higher handicaps/golfers needing distance have stronger lofts, isn't the pw or specialist wedge test more set gw or traditional pw to match the set lofts? Think T100s/T200 gw 48° other brands offer very similar products
Given that 130yd & 75yd results were somewhat similar. Should a) consideration be given to have set matching irons & shafts from say 5iron to LW for use when playing conditions are normal to dry, and b) purchasing specialty wedges with matching shafts.from PW to LW when playing conditions are moist to wet? Also, should shafts in a) & b) be identically matched to ensure the only variation in performance is through the ‘specialty’ heads ability to handle moist to wet conditions better than a full set of matching irons & wedges? I have a matching set of (personally gapped) KZG triple forged & CNC milled 4 to LW that perform great in normal to dry conditions. Should I consider purchasing 4 specialty wedges at PW | GW | SW & LW with shafts identical to my KZG 4 ~ LW or should I fit matching specialist wedge flex shafts to my KZG PW | GW | SW & LW heads? I’d welcome TXG thoughts to having 2 sets of wedges being 1 x set matching for normal to dry conditions and 1 x specialty set for moist to wet conditions, being similar to choosing F1 race tyres for wet or dry track conditions ~~~😳 Help!⛳️🏌️♂️
@@prendeville I’m thinking of swapping out my 790 AW for a 50 degree jaws wedge to go with my 54 and 58. Do you think the gapping would be good like that, with the 790 PW being 45 degrees?
So the next question in the puzzle, would Ian swap out the shafts in the wedges to match his irons to avoid that additional toe down on the full shot.............I am guessing yes!?
Ian, you said you don’t think mid-handicaps should look at replacing their set PW with a specialty wedge but you didn’t say why. If it’s because of the difference in forgiveness, as I suspect, maybe you could do a video with a mid-handicappper comparing his set PW with specialty wedges that have more forgiveness such as the Cleveland CBX Zipcore or the Ping Glide 4.0?
Here is a question that confuses me . I play very bery tight fairways but my question is what is the difference between effective bounce and actual bounce and how it affects shots on certain lies
At which point do you put iron shafts in your wedges? If you play a 46/50/54/58 Vokey, do you put iron shafts in only at the 46 and not the rest, or could you put iron shafts in all wedges?
The general rule is to match the shafts in your (specialty) wedges up until the point you dont use them for full swing full speed shots -- for most golfers, this means matching down to the gap wedge.
@@ryanbarath1916 appreciate the response. But for most of us below average golfers, executing a "less than" full shot is beyond our capabilities. If I struggle with full shots, less than full would be a less common approach. Personally, i would feel more confident with iron shafts that match and probably wouldn't know the difference but at least it could hold up. I actually building a 3-piece wedge set that has the same iron shaft i play to see if there is any difference and if any of the difference will personally benefit me.
@@ryanbarath1916 totally agree Ryan. from memory, the two shortest clubs in my bag 54 & 58 are both half a flex softer (6.5 down to 6 in the PX lz's) to counter the increase in stiffness as the clubs get shorter.
Great video. I got my PW and GW with my JPX 921 Forged irons and I can’t hit them to save my life. Have you ever seen cases where for whatever reason after market wedges blend better to a swing style than set wedges?
One thing I noticed with the set wedge vs. the SM9. Ian consistently hit the set wedge lower on the face. I'm assuming this based on club design as opposed to personal bias. (And it amazes me how consistent his shots are - same with Matt.)
What would you recommend from a shaft perspective? All wedges PW, GW, SW, LW with the same shaft as in the irons (Graphite) or only PW and GW and in the SW and LW a stiffer/heavier steel shaft?
Good stuff fellas! I'm wondering the difference in wedge weight? I like a heaver weighted wedge, but often hard to find with the shafts available, so I'm wondering if the shaft would make the difference in numbers or just a personal feeling.
S400 is the most popular wedge shaft because it's one of the heaviest around. I know RB is a huge fan of it. As for feel, swing weight can get you the rest of the way there.
I am sure that the set wedge will stay in the bag for far longer than specialty wedges for most amateurs which might exacerbate the difference on the wet test
How do you wedge matrix when your driving range has no yardage markers? And should you even wedge matrix with range balls? No bays in sight with a launch monitor in the midwest.
@@clubchampionmedia Average golfers need different clubs than the ones used in the PGA Tour because they are worse at golf. Why not use clubs used by PGA players and start getting better with them?
Does the fact that its a brand new SM9 with fresh grooves not have an impact vs Ian’s worn Miura? The picture of his Miura looked like its been in the bag a while?
You did not show the height of the 130 yard shots. I understand that the Vokey SM9 wedges had been designed to give players the same distances that they want from a given club, but with a lower trajectory to avoid wind and ballooning, while also providing higher spin rates so that the ball would stop on the green and not roll out further than desired.
I currently play JPX 921 up to SW and JPX850 Gap (bent to 52) (all fitted by TXG). I have vokeys in 56 and 60. I am thinking my issue is opposite of Ians. I was thinking I should go with a glide or CBX2 in the 56 and maybe a full face in the 60. I hit full shots with the 56 and chip, flop etc with the 60. I am thinking the vokeys are not forgiving enough and inconsistent in distance control. Comments?
Always been a 'set wedge' player - and tried out a friend's vokey sms9 48deg - I realized one advantage of having this wedge in my bag is it was so much easier getting close to the pin on those awkward 40-50 yard bunker shots. The club slides really well under the ball like I'm using my normal specialty wedges (using the Miura K Grind 54/58 wedges).
Great seeing the three of you working together in a video. So much mechanical knowledge
This is a really cool video. Even if replacing a PW isn't super obtainable for most amateurs I bet that this test could show how a set GW vs a specialized GW may work for the more everyday golfer
I’m halfway through but that’s what I’m thinking, too - might be time to look into it! I like that Vokey has such great options and it would pair well with my T100s. Have a Vokey 54.10 and a 58.04 but just switched the 58 for a Jaws.
I routinely check out the P.G.A. & L.P.G.A W.I.T.B. Looking for trends that might help my game. What i see most of the time is that the pro’s seem to carry only to a 9 Iron, and add a specialty gap wedge. Thanks for the great video guys and keep up the great work. Thanks Tony
Most pros consider their “pw” as their gap wedge. Then they have sand a lob maybe depending on course and conditions. Vs an amateur having 4 wedges including pw from the set.
So excited we did this video!! Been a big question as I'm building out my set this year
Great video, the team is starting to gel
Looking forward to a full SM9 review with some SM8 or MG3 comparisons!
I have just rewatched this. Swapping irons out this season and going to go with 46 (bent to 45); 50; 54 & 58 with 6i-9i. Moved to 4&5 hybrids two seasons ago and also put a 7w in the bag. Index 7.2 and this sort of friendlier setup and sharpening up the scoring clubs will be part of the key to unlocking category 1!
Great video! But for myself I will stick with full set PW. It’s a full swing club only for me. Anything inside 100 yards will be one of my other specialty wedges.
Can't see myself ever needing to half swing a PW and my chips/bump and runs are usually a lower lofted iron (8 or 9).
I play 5-9 in the TC201 with a U500 4 iron with a ventus black and a 46° raw SM8 and it’s been a perfect combo
Have a life narcissist
Great video guys! A question we get from our students very often.
Sm6 46* (f grind 8* bounce) checking in. I used cavity back and also semi GI irons (zx5) where the set PW just had too much pop off the face around the green and didn’t have great feel with partial shots. I have since changed my set composition to zx7 7-P and prefer the zx7 pw to the vokey 46* as the zx7 pw has really nice (to me) turf interaction and the faces on the zx7 aren’t as hot and have way better feel on partial shots. Another factor Ian mentioned briefly is shafts; I prefer my shaft choice in the zx7 pw to the Sm6 46* for full shots. I know the TXG lads said a specialty wedge may not benefit higher h’cap players but I think the circumstance I identified above show where their are some benefits to playing a pw different from your 5-9 irons if you are a feel first type player or want to increase your golf feel IQ that could be muted in a iron set pw.
Great video lads. Keep up the good work!
You guys are knocking it out the ball park with the great informative vlogs
Thanks Jesse.
Great video. Can't wait for my wedge fitting!
Ian: Excellent analogy with racing slicks for dry track vs. rain tires to disperse water!
As an F1 fan, I thought this was really cool too
I feel that shaft weight and flex is crucial on partial shots, feeling the head in transition.
This then becomes a consideration on type of pitching wedge and it's main use for you.
I moved to a 46 Vokey SM8 instead of my MP20 HMB PW this year. I found a material improvement on partial swings and control, sufficient that i have actually been able to move to a LW, GW and the 46 setup and get an extra long club in the bag (2 iron as a wind club and backup driving club when the driver is off). Has probably in combination knocked 3 or 4 shots off my rounds. Nice to see another test validating it.
How do you like the hmb irons?
@@BuffaloBarber24 moved on from them to something more bladey as handicap came down. But at 18 handicap I loved them.
@@milesotway4466 Awesome. Trying to decided between those and the p790s. What shafts did you play in the HMBs?
@@BuffaloBarber24 Dynamic Gold 105 stiff
Would love to see more videos explaining best grinds for each handicap roughly
Great video TXG.
Few comments on this topic, FWIW...(I fully expect a few TLDRs).
i) On the full shots, SM9 produced a higher ball flight, slightly higher spin rates and I believe a higher descent angle. Slightly more targety, throwin' darts.
ii) The use of a specialty wedge could/would change the player's mindset. Control trumps Power. If I am hitting a Gap, SW or Lob - I'm typically stepping into the shot thinking about the resulting putt. I love my PW, but when I pull a PW, I'm normally thinking about distance first (does it get there? wind? trajectory), and then proximity to the target/pin. For me, the PW is the highest lofted of the power clubs...as soon as I transition into GW - or shorter distance clubs, I'm not thinking about power as my first priority anymore (that decision has already been made). I could see myself starting to hit partial 9i if I had a specialty PW in my bag.
iii) I also think a player might be much more inclined to replace an individual specialty PW with a fresh wedge sooner. I'm thinking that, for me, if the PW is regarded as part of an irons set - I wouldn't really think about replacing a single iron in the set due to groove deterioration - I would be thinking more 'Is it time for a fresh set of irons'. Replacing/refreshing only the PW with a brand new club with fresh grooves would have a definite impact on performance.
iv) The sound at impact of the Vokey on Ian's shots with the Vokey was very nice as well.
v) Wet wedge performance - superior in the SM9.
Love the depth you good folks provide when you unpack a topic like this. Awesome content.
This is really really good information. Love these kind of videos!
It's hard to find info on set GW/AW, but often seems like they differ quite a bit from the rest of the set in terms of looking more like a wedge than an iron. Would love to see more set GWs on the channel and a follow up to this one comparing set vs specialty... particularly from a more techy iron set.
I love this video. I was recommended a set gw but soon realised as I like chipping with a specialty gw but one positive is I've learnt other longer shots that I wouldn't have done before
Loved it gents and perfect timing, as its wedge buying season for me.
So a question for you all, if I may?
I’m a short hitter for a 41yo guy weighing heavier than I should lol. I currently game Driver, 3wd, 5wd, 4hyb, 5i-PW (in my stock MP18 MMC’s) 50°, 54°, 58°, Putter.
Now then, my head pro just through my head under a bus the other day, and suggested I should go 46° PW, 52°, 58° ( I used to have that set up) so I can have more options for distance and learn more feel shots with the 52° & 58°.
What would your thoughts be? If I was to come to a fitting at your facility, as a consumer what would you be advising me? As an example and this is going off my Arccos Smart distances - Driver 238yd total, 7i 149yd (carry averages 143yd last time I gap tested), PW 110 (carry average around 107).
I know it’s though to answer without a live observation. But I’d be really interested on your thoughts.
Again... love the start sound effects !
The live chat for this was fantastic....wish I had know about it sooner.
The channel seems to be finding its way. Nice job gents
Awesome video. I’ve just recently switched to playing a SM8 46 in place of my PW. It’s a club I use a lot for partial swings so makes sense to get that little bit of extra performance.. you just just solidified my decision 🤙🏻
The first new club I ever bought after picking up a cheap bag was a Mizuno T7 at 46* - absolutely love the club and it's still in the bag
The wet test was incredible insight. Can only imagine the combo of wet and rough would widen the gap even further. There are a lot of inflated gains in other equipment categories but this one seems like a no brainer to try this year.
I would like to see it again when Ian wasn't pulling the set wedge more and likely lowering the spin rates. I don't think that the true difference is going to be that 1k mark, closer to 500-600.
Good vid, thx. However, I'd have enjoyed seeing a new Miura PW v the Vokey. The year's use would affect the face of the Miura. According to Vokey (I believe) a wedge has about 75 rounds of play before it's spin performance is affected. You guys are finding your groove, keep up the good work.
Lets not forget the specialty wedges are available with more grinds and bounce variations to be a more versatile club in your set. I actually play an sm8 over my set pw and it was pleasing to see this video to offer some level of reassurance as im regularly questioned about it
Love that you guys brought up fritellis sw. Johnny Wunder has had a lot of stuff on his site of pros using the apex tcb gw.
In my own testing with the gap wedge slot, specialty wedge beats set wedge across three different iron sets. Glad to see your testing reflecting similar results.
Always wondered how this would play out. Certainly something to consider for the new season. Thanks lads
This is such great content! Excellent topic👍🏼keep up the great work lads, woohoo!
The information given is always amazing. Wish you guys were my area fitters.
Enjoyed the test. It shows that you need to get fit for clubs that fit you and your swing no matter the club brand, type or makeup, so long as they work best for you and improve your scores.
How about the shafts for the wedges? It would be very interesting to see a test with a specialized wedge with a shaft matching the iron set versus a specialized wedge with a wedge shaft.
I second this.
The problem with that is that it's very player specific, and is based on how they approach their wedge game.
A 'wedge shaft' could be heavier, lighter, softer, or stiffer depending on what the player is trying to do.
@@Ryan-fx7jx I only just saw this and wanted to share my experience. This is particular to me as I am 57 and losing a bit of pop. I game Mizuno MP18 MMCs with 95g Nippon steel. Decided to go with Mizuno T20s in 50, 54, 58 degree with the same shaft. This proved to be great in the 50 for full and 3/4 shots, but a disaster for chipping and partials in general. For me, lack of weight led to lack of feel and consistency. Temporarily gone back to my very old Mizunos in 52 and 58 with S300s. Gapping is more difficult, but accuracy much improved.
Some of the spin difference may be coming from fresh grooves on the SM9
Thats not the point of this video. They isolated any spin differences due to grooves in the first two tests: they both performed identical. So we know there isn't any spin differences. The reason he bagged the Vokey was that in wet shots the Vokey retained spin. This isnt grooves, because we normalized that already by showing both spin the same. The difference came from the coating tech that new wedges have that retain spin when wet.
@@MrAhuraMazda Ping is the only company using a coating to help retain spin when wet. Everyone else is milling between the grooves to add grip on the ball. This milling also wears off fairly quickly. If fresh grooves didn't matter tour pros wouldn't replace their wedges several times a year. No doubt the Vokey was better in that test. The question is would it be that much better after a season of use. I don't know the answer but I would love to see the test.
Great content guys as always.
Love the channel guys!
Will you do a segment, that shows performance differences related to bounce? Same lofts, same shafts, etc., and three different bounces: 6°, 9°, 12°
I've decided that I'm moving to more bounce in my wedges in an effort to eliminate some of my fat shots.
Back in the day, iron manufacturers always produced a sand wedge and typically gap/approach wedge that matched the set (Wilson, MacGregor, Hogan and so on). Myself like most, started putting in specialty wedges in the late 90’s but for me, I always struggled with gapping to my iron set due to design differences (especially when I switched to the cavity back Mizuno’s for example). Now, maybe we’re coming full circle eh? Tour pro (Frittelli) carrying a SW matched to his iron set? Ya man! I now have Apex pro’s AW-5 iron and I my game from 130yds in has tightened up significantly with that 115-120 yd AW that is just like hitting my 125-130 PW. I’d love a sand wedge that matches as well like Frittelli! :D
My clubs - what I have left in the loft (been out due to injury) - I have a full set of Ping i3+ blades with PX 5.5 (RP Rifle satin) 3-PW, with MB wedges that now have LZ 6.0 48/52/56/60. I much prefer the versatility of the 48' MB over the i3+. Full shot distance is the same - trajectory is different due to the PX v LZ. If it's windier I would take the i3.
I agree there is a noticable difference in the wet test BUT how much of that can you attribute to the wear on your current gamer PW vs a brand new SM9? Or in other words if both clubs were brand new do you think there would still be that much difference??
Great video boys!
Great Video Guys!
I've got a 50° AW to match my srixon Z585 irons... found I was using my gap wedge for more full and 3/4 shots so I love it for that reason 👌
I just switched to a SM8 gap wedge with my fitting last season. T200 PW is 43*, so went to 48* Vokey instead of set GW. Has been a great move thus far, just so much more precision. Only had it for last month and a half of the season, but confidence on partials is way up. Looking to replace my SM6 sand wedge this season.
I play Mizuno MP33 blades and some years ago had all my irons bent 2 degrees stronger so my PW went down to 46. When the Vokey SM7's came out, I replaced my Bettinardi 56 & 60 wedges with Vokey SM7's 50/54/58 (full custom fitting). When the grooves on my PW wore down too far, I replaced it with an SM8 46 deg so all my wedges feel and perform the same.
love this video, more of this information plz
Great video. And very good results from the Vokey in the condition testing. Really giving me something to think about.
I would love to see you play shots with those PWs 5yds longer than your max GW…a 120ish front pin that you can’t miss short.
If there was less toe droop on the sm9 do you see some of the numbers improving? Seems like less launch and possibly more spin. Maybe?
Great vlog, very interesting results. Might actually reduce the cost of a set of clubs! Any chance of a wedge shaft effect vlog too? Great show! 👍
Really enjoyed this, as a TC201 user. At the price point though, hard for me to justify replacing the PW and/or 4 iron.
How about the same test for higher handicaps using a matching GW(t300, JPX hot metal) vs a CBX zipcore or mackdaddy cb or glide. Even a PW test considering the new cbx zipcore is available in lower lofts
We require sets that don't have 5° between short irons, 4° between mid irons and 3° between long irons. Especially slower swingspeeds, which being the ageing, majority of the buying public, we are. Equal increments of possibly bigger at the long iron end is better. 48° PW followed by 5° increments would suit us better. eg 48°, 43°, 38°, 33°, 28°, 23°. You'd be doing well to launch that last club. A hybrid would be better. So a 5 iron set would do the job.
Best video in weeks gents! Love the thoroughness!
Everything in here suggests the specialty wedge holds an advantage over set wedge, but you led in with the fact that you fit the vast majority of your clients with a set wedge. Could you speak more to that before we all throw our set wedges in the basement?
I think the issue for the avg golfer is going to be forgiveness. Not that you need a ton on a shorter club, but if an avg golfer struggles with finding center, the design of the set wedge being similar to the irons is probably going to be a bit more forgiving if you hit it off the toe.
Great stuff guys, making me rethink my setup. Did you test wet full swing? If you did but didn't put it in the video was there a difference like in the partial shot?
Awesome video and something I have been interested in for a while! Looks like I have a new vokey hitting the bag this season. While only a fitting can tell, do you expect this to impact how folks combo their irons. I was thinking I would combo 8-PW but now with the vokey in the PW slot is it worth just have 2 irons (8-9) different from the rest of the set?
If you don't swing your PW as hard as your 9i, do you find a larger gap between the 9i & PW?
I bought a new SM8 56/08 (M) bent it to 54/06 and 2 flat. Will be my allround wedge. I use both set PW (44) and GW (48). Just need one special wedge.
Strike location on the vokey is awesome.
how did you do the wet test? Soak the mat and wet the ball?
I paid too much money for this 921 Forged gap wedge (4-G) to take it outta my bag and exchange it for a 50/52 degree Callaway X-Forged $35 EBay special to match it to my 54* and 60* wedges. 😉😂 Honestly, that’s what I need to do (or go 52* and 58* and dump the Gap wedge entirely to open up another space up top).
Great vid
Great video guys as usual , how about staying with same shaft as your gap wedge? As an example I have AMT in my gap wedge. Can you order SM9 wedge with the AMT shaft or would you stay with the standard shaft?
I have the 4-GW T200's. The PW is 43 and GW is 48. I carry 3 additional Vokey wedges - 52, 56, 60. I am curious if I should switch the 48 for another Vokey based on this testing.
So if I use mizuno irons I should stick with mizuno Wedges
My question would be; some modern sets aimed at higher handicaps/golfers needing distance have stronger lofts, isn't the pw or specialist wedge test more set gw or traditional pw to match the set lofts?
Think T100s/T200 gw 48° other brands offer very similar products
Given that 130yd & 75yd results were somewhat similar. Should a) consideration be given to have set matching irons & shafts from say 5iron to LW for use when playing conditions are normal to dry, and b) purchasing specialty wedges with matching shafts.from PW to LW when playing conditions are moist to wet? Also, should shafts in a) & b) be identically matched to ensure the only variation in performance is through the ‘specialty’ heads ability to handle moist to wet conditions better than a full set of matching irons & wedges? I have a matching set of (personally gapped) KZG triple forged & CNC milled 4 to LW that perform great in normal to dry conditions. Should I consider purchasing 4 specialty wedges at PW | GW | SW & LW with shafts identical to my KZG 4 ~ LW or should I fit matching specialist wedge flex shafts to my KZG PW | GW | SW & LW heads? I’d welcome TXG thoughts to having 2 sets of wedges being 1 x set matching for normal to dry conditions and 1 x specialty set for moist to wet conditions, being similar to choosing F1 race tyres for wet or dry track conditions ~~~😳 Help!⛳️🏌️♂️
I have only heard the question .. should you match your Gap wedge to your set if for the most part you use it primarily for fairly full shots.
Literally just tested this and will be replacing my PW with an RTX zipcore 46 degree wedge
Please make a comparison between gap wedges, which is the best loft, 50, 52? , and how should it bleds with the sand wedge.
Love the video! Can we get a vokey vs mg3 video?
I am currently getting my p790 a wedge and pw shaft changed from dg 105s to dg spinners which weigh more
Is that because they go too far relative to the specialty wedges? My p790 AW goes 30 yds further than my 56° SM2 and it's a really awkward gap.
@@prendeville I’m thinking of swapping out my 790 AW for a 50 degree jaws wedge to go with my 54 and 58. Do you think the gapping would be good like that, with the 790 PW being 45 degrees?
So the next question in the puzzle, would Ian swap out the shafts in the wedges to match his irons to avoid that additional toe down on the full shot.............I am guessing yes!?
Great vid! Not to change the subject but - Ian!!, do you have any plans to test the stealth plus on the autoflex shaft?? Would love to see it.
Thanks John, yes we do!!
Ian, you said you don’t think mid-handicaps should look at replacing their set PW with a specialty wedge but you didn’t say why. If it’s because of the difference in forgiveness, as I suspect, maybe you could do a video with a mid-handicappper comparing his set PW with specialty wedges that have more forgiveness such as the Cleveland CBX Zipcore or the Ping Glide 4.0?
Here is a question that confuses me . I play very bery tight fairways but my question is what is the difference between effective bounce and actual bounce and how it affects shots on certain lies
At which point do you put iron shafts in your wedges? If you play a 46/50/54/58 Vokey, do you put iron shafts in only at the 46 and not the rest, or could you put iron shafts in all wedges?
The general rule is to match the shafts in your (specialty) wedges up until the point you dont use them for full swing full speed shots -- for most golfers, this means matching down to the gap wedge.
@@ryanbarath1916 appreciate the response. But for most of us below average golfers, executing a "less than" full shot is beyond our capabilities. If I struggle with full shots, less than full would be a less common approach. Personally, i would feel more confident with iron shafts that match and probably wouldn't know the difference but at least it could hold up. I actually building a 3-piece wedge set that has the same iron shaft i play to see if there is any difference and if any of the difference will personally benefit me.
@@ryanbarath1916 totally agree Ryan. from memory, the two shortest clubs in my bag 54 & 58 are both half a flex softer (6.5 down to 6 in the PX lz's) to counter the increase in stiffness as the clubs get shorter.
Wish I had someone like you near me! Big 5 doesn’t fit clubs!! I couldn’t even get a grip for my son’s used set I just got for him.
What do you think about the difference in sole grinds between specialty and set wedges? I find specially soles better in gap and even pitching wdges
Great video. I got my PW and GW with my JPX 921 Forged irons and I can’t hit them to save my life. Have you ever seen cases where for whatever reason after market wedges blend better to a swing style than set wedges?
One thing I noticed with the set wedge vs. the SM9. Ian consistently hit the set wedge lower on the face. I'm assuming this based on club design as opposed to personal bias. (And it amazes me how consistent his shots are - same with Matt.)
I think it is bc it has more bounce.
I wonder if in the wet test with the TC201 being Ian's gamer that if the wear had something to do with the spin change vs the new grooves on a SM9?
What would you recommend from a shaft perspective? All wedges PW, GW, SW, LW with the same shaft as in the irons (Graphite) or only PW and GW and in the SW and LW a stiffer/heavier steel shaft?
If your clubs have graphite shafts and you are using cast clubs should the wedge be the same, perhaps a Cleveland CBX2 as an example?
Hey Ryan can you throw a red green keep your stick on the ice in at the end!
Good stuff fellas! I'm wondering the difference in wedge weight? I like a heaver weighted wedge, but often hard to find with the shafts available, so I'm wondering if the shaft would make the difference in numbers or just a personal feeling.
S400 is the most popular wedge shaft because it's one of the heaviest around. I know RB is a huge fan of it.
As for feel, swing weight can get you the rest of the way there.
I am sure that the set wedge will stay in the bag for far longer than specialty wedges for most amateurs which might exacerbate the difference on the wet test
How do you wedge matrix when your driving range has no yardage markers? And should you even wedge matrix with range balls? No bays in sight with a launch monitor in the midwest.
PGA Tour players use the Vokeys. And it is quite clear that is better than the other one.
What PGA Tour players do shouldn’t have too much bearing on what the average golfer should use.
@@clubchampionmedia Average golfers need different clubs than the ones used in the PGA Tour because they are worse at golf. Why not use clubs used by PGA players and start getting better with them?
As Im using Apex 19s, the PW is 43 so I have an SM8 48, 54 and 60 as my wedge setup
Does the fact that its a brand new SM9 with fresh grooves not have an impact vs Ian’s worn Miura? The picture of his Miura looked like its been in the bag a while?
You did not show the height of the 130 yard shots. I understand that the Vokey SM9 wedges had been designed to give players the same distances that they want from a given club, but with a lower trajectory to avoid wind and ballooning, while also providing higher spin rates so that the ball would stop on the green and not roll out further than desired.
I currently play JPX 921 up to SW and JPX850 Gap (bent to 52) (all fitted by TXG). I have vokeys in 56 and 60. I am thinking my issue is opposite of Ians. I was thinking I should go with a glide or CBX2 in the 56 and maybe a full face in the 60. I hit full shots with the 56 and chip, flop etc with the 60. I am thinking the vokeys are not forgiving enough and inconsistent in distance control. Comments?
Also at $179US its a heck of an up charge for sales!
Are a lot of specialty pitching wedges made because of sets with modern stronger lofts? To get gapping correct?