the map is out as "pl_circle_st1" now -> 45.62.160.71:27015 i think the map is kinda cool but i also did make it just because "haha circle". if people hate it i can remove it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@justit1074there’d be a flipped over Xen Crystal cart with a HL1 Gordon Freeman underneath it, trying to hide from the chaos (he’s not fighting because this is still Fresh-Faced, Untraumatized MIT Graduate Gordon and not “5 days and however long he spent in temporal stasis of uninterrupted and unmatched suffering” Gordon)
Here's a quick summary of the video: - I wanted to make an experiment. So I introduced a problem. - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Solution for a problem introduced a problem - Ah, here we go. The Radial Labyrinth Of Pain! Still fun at least.
I love how this explains the creative process, going from _"round_ lmao" to "so, I added multiple routes, multiple layers, some buildings, platforms to stand on, and, oops, I've just made an actual map"
@ChesterManfred honestly valves skill is doing this while having the map remain on a coherent theme. But they have the benefit of smaller teams. You'd need much bigger maps to get that theme consistency with 100 players
@@legojay14 By theme, do you mean gameplay or design? The maps are typically designed after the geometry is at least partially built if I remember correctly
2 minutes in I’m like “how can a circle be fun to play on?”, then 6 minutes in I’m like “I hope this additional geometry doesn’t sully the sanctity of the circle, it’s simplicity is what makes it so genius”
Some of my silliest fun was playing 32 player DM in UT2004 on a map that is just a room. Absolut chaos. You don't want to stay there all day. But for that one round you do, it's absolutely disgusting fun. And hey, 2fort is probably the most played TF2 map, which says a lot.
1:43 I love that having your left shoulder to the wall gives Red an advantage because everyone is right-handed, just like medieval castle towers which were sometimes built that way on purpose
I like how basically every problem with this map was because it's geometry is ultimately constrained to being in a donut shape, so it just ended up being a thousand and one band-aid fixes for every possible scenario. This map's development cycle was literally "Explosive spam is too powerful, so we fix that but now short circuit spam is too powerful, so we fix that but now sniper's too powerful, so we fix that but now RED's vantage points are too powerful, so we fix that but now sentries are too powerful, so we fix that but now demoman's too powerful, so we fix that but now sentries are too powerful again".
@@evilded2 The point I was trying to make is that every problem here was exasperated by the fact that the map was forced to be in a 'circle'. If that constraint wasn't so specific they could've just added flank routes off to the sides or in the middle ring, and half of the problems they ran into would've never even happened or would have been way less severe.
If I am not mistaken, it's exactly what Valve did, at least when it came to the development of Portal, where there had been weekly playtests, or so I remember.
if you ever decorate this map, you should do it in the style of a mcdonalds or carls jr kids area, it feels like playing in that map would feel like that
*"A perfect circle?! Do it again. Show your process."* Pushing a cart around like a dog chasing it's tail is universally the most tf2 thing imaginable.
The only viable playable strats for scouts is either spamming mad milk in hope it won't deleted by short circuit, so that fellow soldiers/demos could get huge heals, or using bonk to block rockets, or blew up someone unfortunate. That's it
@@herkload nah spies have always been good on 100 player maps. You run YER + stock or deadringer depending on map chokiness. You can easily get topscore if you play your cards right, and can have a serious influence of pushes against engie nests if you distract them all with sappers. Its just way harder to get behind enemy lines than before, but likewise its way easier to get chainstabs than before.
@@bomono3973 expect this map, its geometry so choky that even spy with dead ringer resistances going to be deleted by sheer amount of projectiles and splash damage when he tries to walk to enemie's backlines. And even if he managed to do that, he still might be randomly killed by splash or short circuit ball.
1:20 funny thing is that wasn't even what I meant at all, I said that during the stream as a joke and meant literally disabling respawning as if it was arena mode. But then we tried instant respawn and it worked soo we take those ig
@@RemoveThisTrashLetMeSeeNames time limit let you an end to the torture Payload race is perfect as you can see your work go to dust if the carts are allowed to roll back and no side has an advantage with unlimited time and same respawn time on both teams ACTUAL NIGHTMARE
For what is meant to be a meme map, you did a fantastic job showing off the iterative process, and gave a good demonstration on what the process is for good map design.
One major QOL problem I encountered playing this was how narrow some of the platforms are, especially those against the outer ring. You'd end up killing all of your momentum mid-jump brushing against a wall brush at the wrong angle
One idea I've always been interested in: Water in TF2 allows for 3D movement, what if an entire map was made with the swimming effects on (minus the drowning and anti-fire limits), how would the gameplay go when players need to look not just around; but down and up to check for enemies? How would gameplay change with a new way to flank? Would chokepoints remain the same gameplay wise? It's an interesting idea, but probably difficult to make, considering how scout's double jump would have to be changed, along with demo's charges and soldier's rocket jumping. I'd love to see you try this idea someday! If anything, It'd make for a great Halloween map for the server! (because a space theme would be boring)
Yeah, that's basically zero-grav TF2 i guess. Would make more sense though if it'd somehow allow for non-explosive classes to deliberately push off of walls in the direction they're looking for example, as otherwise any non-explosive mercs would have no real way of controlling their movement.
I once had a class on level design where everyone got told to make a level which we’d playtest in Quake. Surprisingly, the most popular level was the one that just CTF but dumped everyone in a tiny room This is actually an awkward thing with level design: what makes for good design is not always what’s fun, and vice versa
Honestly an interesting look into level design, given it's such a simple initial concept, which evolved to keep the original spirit (of it being a circle) but also trying to be fair, where every iteration helped one problem, while inadvertently causing another which needed additional help which kept going until it finally got to the 50/50 state it's in now
I love how you can straight up predict the way the "orange pieces" can impact the gameplay, until you find three demomen solely spamming pipes down that spot
I misread the title as a literal circus so now I want to see a circus themed art pass. seems fitting considering the silly and ridiculous concept of the map in the first place, also would explain a lot of the random geometry and objects around. Especially stuff up towards the ceiling for acrobats and safety assistance.
The reason this map seems like it excelled was because it still fit the scale of TF2 despite being optimized for about 4x the player amount. Alot of maps nowadays, be it cp_propaganda, pl_emerge or pl_patagonia are oversized as hell, which ruins every character's synergy and births the currently re-revived complaint over snipers since the new maps are not designed by people who know how to balance TF2. The fact you can optimize a literal circle talks more of your skill in game design and ability to take feedback; and puts about 80% of modern TF2 mappers to shame, godspeed.
"No world war game will ever simulate THIS team experience" huh? oh no cr@p sherlock why would a game about WORLD WAR yes WORLD war an event that happened in real life why would there be funny circle battles in a game about WORLD WAR
You know what might be interesting? A circular map like this but using the Source portals to make it have more segments than is physically possible. Have it be like 8 quarter segments long, with the first 4 there from the start, but for each segment Blu caps it adds another segment randomly picked from a bunch of options. Heck you could make it a community-created map by having people design their own segments that can be put in.
That would be interesting if it were possible, but I think that Valve putting the linked_portal_door(s) into TF2 would've been talked about quite a bit. (We would know if they were there by now, is what I'm trying to say)
@@dogman15 After some googling, no, I don't think it does. If I remember, it just loads some rooms randomly - there's a video somewhere explaining it, give me a minute - Found it ruclips.net/video/iykEhK3uRSU/видео.html
@@Dusk_Shade ah, my bad that's the map that I thought had the portals. I guess to do something like what I mentioned in TF2, you would be limited to having 3 segments normally with the 4th segment being a loading zone. You'd then need to wait until all the players left the the furthest blu-ward segement and then you could unload that to make space for a new segement. I haven't learnt enough through watching Shounic and LED to know if that is possible.
If I could suggest a name, it would be “Big Donut,” in reference to the Mario Kart battle corse that takes place in a giant ring, with a large pit of lava in the center.
100 players is just so fun. i love the trenches. i think it's the base tf2 gameplay that makes anything so satisfying. it's crazy how many level design problems were encountered and solved here. I can't wait for the art pass
Now I want to see the full art pass on this turn it into pl_tokamak, where the whole thing is inside a fusion reactor chamber with maintenance scaffolding, construction supplies, and removed parts making up the extra geometry. The bomb is the ignition fuel and when BLU wins the whole thing fills with an effect similar to koth_nucleus's reactor.
This map is a perfect example of why playtesting every single tiny change is crucial to making a good map, this literal circle is more fun to play than some maps in the base game (*cough* wutville *cough*)
amazing map and amazing map design mate! i like the evolution of the map and how more detailed and balanced it became. yknow im gonna play this map and think its fun whatsoever
This video is proof that with enough effort, care, and consideration about your actual player base can make even A LITERAL CIRCLE fun. It's not fun not because it's just a circle but how much time was poured in making sure people had fun with that circle. Good stuff
you should upload a version that is just LITERALLY a circle, no like teams in the high ground or team spawn rooms on the floor, both are on floor and its just a small little circle like before, total chaos.
By the end of all this development time this is basically the barest essence of a long single-stage multi-point map, with no flanks and only a main choke the whole way through. It even follows the routing of many single-stage payload maps where the cart naturally spirals toward the end, though in this case instead of the center of the map it simply loops back to (nearly) where it started, which is kind of interesting.
I hope you realize how unique of an experience it is to be such a prolific creator in such a long-lived, die-hard community. It is an honor to play on the shounic trenches. I recently reinstalled TF2 after an 8 year hiatus, and your server has been an absolute thrill. It's like I'm playing TF2 for the first time again. Thank you.
Damn, it really took 50 days of constant resetting to push the cart to the end? That's some dedication right there. faith to your morals, willingness to stand up straight and all that.
This reminds me of when I used to play on the Xenogames server, which cycled maps based on other games, back when it actually had players. One of the maps was from Goldeneye-some kind of base, I never played real Goldeneye so I don’t know-and it was very much this spam city kind of deal. You could sort of call a winner, since the prime choke points the spam set up on were in spots just inside the bases and not on the neutral ground between, but still, it ultimately and quickly devolved into a spam war with no real way for either side to push through the firefight.
Love the natural selection take on balance. Makes even the most ridiculous maps become balanced through constant development isnt of bulk changes that might not work
Shounic, you didn't need to make an entire video to tell us that Soldier mains have severe brain rot and are entertained by literally nothing. We've known that for 17 years now.
The sheer number of people willing to do these stupid experiments has allowed us to make case studies on super weird ideas that could be very helpful information for mappers.
I'm very intrigued to see what maps you might design for 100 player 4 team games 25 v25 v25 v25 sounds really fun especially considering you and your communities obvious talent and passion
Honestly I really like the look of the very basic textures at the end; it gives the map very strong portal vibes, and although I haven't played it, I would think it helps a lot with visibility, which amidst all the spam is difficult enough as it is.
i feel like the final thing i would do is add various tunnels that connect different parts of the map sure it might mess with the 'circle' theme a bit, but it'd give scout/spy some existence
I mean it really says a lot about the core gameplay of the 9 classes that you can put them on just about any piece of geometry called a "map" and a meta will emerge and people will engage with it.
Let me get this straight - you just thought that it would be fun to make a payload map in TF2 that's just a circle, and then balanced it. Sounds like one of the most fun TF2 maps.
i love this type of game design where you just have a petri dish of 100 people and make adjustments from viewing them in game, idk why but its so cool to me for some reason
![[TF2] The Loose Cannon: The Most Fun Weapon](/img/1.gif)
the map is out as "pl_circle_st1" now -> 45.62.160.71:27015
i think the map is kinda cool but i also did make it just because "haha circle". if people hate it i can remove it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is a new demonstration.
cant wait for pl_hexagon_st1
It actually looks really fun for a "haha circle" map, i thought huntsman spam was going to be more of a problem tho
Oh I've gotta try this
this is really good, how are you even making those?
You look inside of a particle accelerator and see this.
large soldier collider
Zoom in enough and it's just a particle running from a rocket jumping soldier trying to market garden it.
honestly, making this map a particle accelerator (black mesa/half life theme heh) would be cool in my opinion
@@justit1074there’d be a flipped over Xen Crystal cart with a HL1 Gordon Freeman underneath it, trying to hide from the chaos
(he’s not fighting because this is still Fresh-Faced, Untraumatized MIT Graduate Gordon and not “5 days and however long he spent in temporal stasis of uninterrupted and unmatched suffering” Gordon)
HAHAHA REALLL
Here's a quick summary of the video:
- I wanted to make an experiment. So I introduced a problem.
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Solution for a problem introduced a problem
- Ah, here we go. The Radial Labyrinth Of Pain! Still fun at least.
Average coding/maping experience
@@blacklight683 and drawing and music creation and writing experience
this is how creative process happens
you've summarized the entirety of game design and development
spaghettification
The TF2 community are the type of people to add balancing to a circle
And still failing hard on said balance.
@@TKsh1Failing? This is a masterpiece in game design.
corner peaking on a circle is crazy
@@toxic_shr00myes i am impressed in the small tweaks he did that totally changed how the map "behaved"
@@TKsh1 me when failing to balance a map = making a really fun map
Corner peeking? On a circle?!
*They did it! They squared the circle!*
thats right! it goes in the square hole! /ref
@@eggsandghost ref? How much ref?
All these squares make a circle...
isn't a circle just infinite corners?
Technically, the circle had about four, connecting chords. Making it a rare instance of a square fitting in a circular hole!
I love how this explains the creative process, going from _"round_ lmao" to "so, I added multiple routes, multiple layers, some buildings, platforms to stand on, and, oops, I've just made an actual map"
Yes, a map that is a circle. The only pointy things are crockets and crickies to the face.
That tends to be how level design works
“I have an idea!” and then many many MANY iterations of testing, problem solving, and retesting
@@GoldenOwl_GameThe Valve (right) way
@ChesterManfred honestly valves skill is doing this while having the map remain on a coherent theme. But they have the benefit of smaller teams. You'd need much bigger maps to get that theme consistency with 100 players
@@legojay14 By theme, do you mean gameplay or design? The maps are typically designed after the geometry is at least partially built if I remember correctly
2 minutes in I’m like “how can a circle be fun to play on?”, then 6 minutes in I’m like “I hope this additional geometry doesn’t sully the sanctity of the circle, it’s simplicity is what makes it so genius”
Sort of does, tbh, by the end too much geometry
@@hydraulicsystems332 the sanctity of the circle remains all of the complexity and gameplay is still retained within the circle.
*its
Some of my silliest fun was playing 32 player DM in UT2004 on a map that is just a room.
Absolut chaos. You don't want to stay there all day. But for that one round you do, it's absolutely disgusting fun.
And hey, 2fort is probably the most played TF2 map, which says a lot.
LMAO
This is what happens when TF2 doesn’t get a major update in 7 years.
fr
same. and also disband TF2 Team Developers after 2018. even comic 7 never came out after 7 years later.
The community has taken it upon themselves to learn how to develop TF2, since nobody at valve is
We did get the 64 bit update, even if it was subcontracted!! So that's something.
It's been 7 years???
1:43 I love that having your left shoulder to the wall gives Red an advantage because everyone is right-handed, just like medieval castle towers which were sometimes built that way on purpose
to be fair if you flip your viewmodel it makes it more even
That seems werid since some weapons like the original have it in the middle, or can switch fov
I can think of exactly one classic spiral staircase that didn't have right handed defender advantage. Plenty of modern ones though.
@@iamerror6546 Does flipping the viewmodel make the bullets come out off-center the other way?
That'd be pretty cool actually
@@AlexanderRM1000 Yeah, actually. At least from what I’ve heard, anyways. It’s pretty neat.
The circle represents the single braincell shared by the TF2 community
Its complicated.
Wait we have a braincell?
Each totem on the pole is a symbolic representation of one family.
it also applies for other communties not tf2 trust me
Yeah and it's my turn with the brain cell, I need to remember how to breathe real quick
the first iteration of the circle looks like: "what if everyone on the idle server was actually playing the game"
?
I like how basically every problem with this map was because it's geometry is ultimately constrained to being in a donut shape, so it just ended up being a thousand and one band-aid fixes for every possible scenario. This map's development cycle was literally "Explosive spam is too powerful, so we fix that but now short circuit spam is too powerful, so we fix that but now sniper's too powerful, so we fix that but now RED's vantage points are too powerful, so we fix that but now sentries are too powerful, so we fix that but now demoman's too powerful, so we fix that but now sentries are too powerful again".
That's called game balance
@@evilded2 The point I was trying to make is that every problem here was exasperated by the fact that the map was forced to be in a 'circle'. If that constraint wasn't so specific they could've just added flank routes off to the sides or in the middle ring, and half of the problems they ran into would've never even happened or would have been way less severe.
I mean it worked out in the end
@@invalid_user_handle Its funni tho.
Me when I challenge myself to make a cirle work and it's hard to make a circle work:
Basically all of these map videos are a giant reminder how important play testing is at every stage of game development lol
If I am not mistaken, it's exactly what Valve did, at least when it came to the development of Portal, where there had been weekly playtests, or so I remember.
@@MrGermandeutschValve play tested like crazy in the Portal games
@@miguelpereira9859 Precisely!
if you ever decorate this map, you should do it in the style of a mcdonalds or carls jr kids area, it feels like playing in that map would feel like that
Genius
he shoud make it look like my gram gram's house because my gram gram' s house looks fucked up like this
Jokes aside, I think this map can be stylized into hell theme, like you know...9th (ring) layer of hell
The entire bottom floor has a small nocollide layer that looks like a ballpit.
Expiration Date tumor bread bagel
*"A perfect circle?! Do it again. Show your process."*
Pushing a cart around like a dog chasing it's tail is universally the most tf2 thing imaginable.
That would be a fun map actually. Cart doesn't just go from start to finish, it does laps and racks up points until the timer's up.
@@agentoranj5858incredible idea for Payload Race
@@agentoranj5858 experimental idea: the cart is a turntable that spins a part of the map
@@agentoranj5858 That... actually sounds like a fun idea
@@gladoseon4117 that's a real map, called 'Snowthistle'. It was really fun from what I rememebr
shounic: "I think I forgot something."
shocord: "If you forgot, then it wasn't important."
scouts:
Scout aint important, they were right
And also Spies 😂
The only viable playable strats for scouts is either spamming mad milk in hope it won't deleted by short circuit, so that fellow soldiers/demos could get huge heals, or using bonk to block rockets, or blew up someone unfortunate. That's it
@@herkload nah spies have always been good on 100 player maps. You run YER + stock or deadringer depending on map chokiness. You can easily get topscore if you play your cards right, and can have a serious influence of pushes against engie nests if you distract them all with sappers. Its just way harder to get behind enemy lines than before, but likewise its way easier to get chainstabs than before.
@@bomono3973 expect this map, its geometry so choky that even spy with dead ringer resistances going to be deleted by sheer amount of projectiles and splash damage when he tries to walk to enemie's backlines. And even if he managed to do that, he still might be randomly killed by splash or short circuit ball.
1:20 funny thing is that wasn't even what I meant at all, I said that during the stream as a joke and meant literally disabling respawning as if it was arena mode. But then we tried instant respawn and it worked soo we take those ig
that sounds so fucked up in a 100 player server
it does sound cool on that one turbine maze map though
Honestly I was confused when instead of no respawn, instant respawn was implemented instead. But it certainly worked out quite well!
I kinda wished the map would be a payload race map to just make it worst in that hell spam
The devil himself
Make it CTF lmao
Worst game mode in tf2
@@laf1993
@@RemoveThisTrashLetMeSeeNames time limit let you an end to the torture
Payload race is perfect as you can see your work go to dust if the carts are allowed to roll back and no side has an advantage with unlimited time and same respawn time on both teams
ACTUAL NIGHTMARE
@@RemoveThisTrashLetMeSeeNamesI dont like that acronym
Will never forget the spy infestation during map testing
What happened during it?
@@boi7316all hell broke lose
That circle represents my brain chart, 100% stupidity 0% competence
But also 100% enjoyable
Shounic.
You are unironically a fantastic map designer and game developer.
Your experiments in TF2 are so fun to watch.
For what is meant to be a meme map, you did a fantastic job showing off the iterative process, and gave a good demonstration on what the process is for good map design.
What 7 years without an update does to a community
I'm so brainrotten, that I'm laughing at the video quality plummeting from the projectiles
@@ChesterManfred It's over
yep. And don't even look at the starfox fanbase since they had constructed an entire canon from the scraps that Nintendo left
@@Toro563no. TF2 cope 101 says: TF2 will never die.
And as time goes on the Brainrot will only get worse.
@@demoman5864So what could we do?
0:57 No way, we finally got Counter-Strike in TF2!
One major QOL problem I encountered playing this was how narrow some of the platforms are, especially those against the outer ring. You'd end up killing all of your momentum mid-jump brushing against a wall brush at the wrong angle
skill issue
@@SUNG0DRA shut up.
@@ponponpatapon9670 you heard me.
@@SUNG0DRA shut up.
@@SUNG0DRA 🤓
One idea I've always been interested in: Water in TF2 allows for 3D movement, what if an entire map was made with the swimming effects on (minus the drowning and anti-fire limits), how would the gameplay go when players need to look not just around; but down and up to check for enemies? How would gameplay change with a new way to flank? Would chokepoints remain the same gameplay wise? It's an interesting idea, but probably difficult to make, considering how scout's double jump would have to be changed, along with demo's charges and soldier's rocket jumping. I'd love to see you try this idea someday! If anything, It'd make for a great Halloween map for the server! (because a space theme would be boring)
This + Rocket Jumper + Infinite Clip Size = Brownian Motion Simulator.
:)
I want a map in tf2 set on a space station
Yeah, that's basically zero-grav TF2 i guess. Would make more sense though if it'd somehow allow for non-explosive classes to deliberately push off of walls in the direction they're looking for example, as otherwise any non-explosive mercs would have no real way of controlling their movement.
so you're telling me tf2 is almost a 6dof game
how it started: just a circle
how it ended: an actual interesting map with a depth of strategy and game sense needed to play well
Yeah, ngl, this looks really fun with the amount of thought that put into it despite being a "simple" map layout.
The strategy is spam
I once had a class on level design where everyone got told to make a level which we’d playtest in Quake. Surprisingly, the most popular level was the one that just CTF but dumped everyone in a tiny room
This is actually an awkward thing with level design: what makes for good design is not always what’s fun, and vice versa
Could totally see this turned into an art gallery/museum for the art pass
i was thinking more "inside of a giant fusion reactor"
blast pit
The first thing that came to my mind was a synchrotron.
@@autonomousanonymous6310 Then we name it pl_blackmesa >:D
BLAME! architecture having map
1:27 props to that red Soldier right by the pillar that ate _three rockets_ from his teammate
Honestly an interesting look into level design, given it's such a simple initial concept, which evolved to keep the original spirit (of it being a circle) but also trying to be fair, where every iteration helped one problem, while inadvertently causing another which needed additional help which kept going until it finally got to the 50/50 state it's in now
I love how you can straight up predict the way the "orange pieces" can impact the gameplay, until you find three demomen solely spamming pipes down that spot
I misread the title as a literal circus so now I want to see a circus themed art pass.
seems fitting considering the silly and ridiculous concept of the map in the first place, also would explain a lot of the random geometry and objects around. Especially stuff up towards the ceiling for acrobats and safety assistance.
The reason this map seems like it excelled was because it still fit the scale of TF2 despite being optimized for about 4x the player amount. Alot of maps nowadays, be it cp_propaganda, pl_emerge or pl_patagonia are oversized as hell, which ruins every character's synergy and births the currently re-revived complaint over snipers since the new maps are not designed by people who know how to balance TF2.
The fact you can optimize a literal circle talks more of your skill in game design and ability to take feedback; and puts about 80% of modern TF2 mappers to shame, godspeed.
"Welcome to team fortress 2, after 9 hours in development, hopefully it would've been worth the weight." - gaben whose favourite class is the spy.
This was very interesting shounic, well done.
Played in your server a few times and it's very fun.
No world war game will ever simulate THIS team experience 💀🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I'd say Foxhole comes close.
@@ericlizama8552
Man, i want to get into that game so badly
"No world war game will ever simulate THIS team experience"
huh? oh no cr@p sherlock why would a game about WORLD WAR yes WORLD war an event that happened in real life why would there be funny circle battles in a game about WORLD WAR
@@DAVRIASwhy so angy
This isn’t even corner peeking at this point it’s tangent peeking
You know what might be interesting? A circular map like this but using the Source portals to make it have more segments than is physically possible.
Have it be like 8 quarter segments long, with the first 4 there from the start, but for each segment Blu caps it adds another segment randomly picked from a bunch of options.
Heck you could make it a community-created map by having people design their own segments that can be put in.
That would be interesting if it were possible, but I think that Valve putting the linked_portal_door(s) into TF2 would've been talked about quite a bit. (We would know if they were there by now, is what I'm trying to say)
Makes me think of some of the weird, experimental maps in Duke Nukem that did stuff like that.
@@Dusk_Shade I think pl_corruption makes use of linked_portal_doors in its "underworld" (the mental asylum), doesn't it?
@@dogman15 After some googling, no, I don't think it does. If I remember, it just loads some rooms randomly - there's a video somewhere explaining it, give me a minute - Found it ruclips.net/video/iykEhK3uRSU/видео.html
@@Dusk_Shade ah, my bad that's the map that I thought had the portals. I guess to do something like what I mentioned in TF2, you would be limited to having 3 segments normally with the 4th segment being a loading zone.
You'd then need to wait until all the players left the the furthest blu-ward segement and then you could unload that to make space for a new segement. I haven't learnt enough through watching Shounic and LED to know if that is possible.
It would honestly be super rad if you gave this map a visual makeover to make it look like a Dantean circle of hell.
In this very short circuit short circuit was overpowered
This is such a genuinely interesting look into the map design process and balancing process
If I could suggest a name, it would be “Big Donut,” in reference to the Mario Kart battle corse that takes place in a giant ring, with a large pit of lava in the center.
CLASSIC
Chain chomp roulette cleara
It should be called Donut Steel
it should be called Baby Park
love how the spy at 4:16 just slowly slides towards the camera & dies
this is actually a great exercise on creativity and simplicity.
7:27 I'm sorry, what the fuck? Did that scout just pull out a caber?
tf3 gameplay leaked footage
Holy shit, I didn't even pick up on that!
100 players is just so fun. i love the trenches. i think it's the base tf2 gameplay that makes anything so satisfying. it's crazy how many level design problems were encountered and solved here. I can't wait for the art pass
Now I want to see the full art pass on this turn it into pl_tokamak, where the whole thing is inside a fusion reactor chamber with maintenance scaffolding, construction supplies, and removed parts making up the extra geometry. The bomb is the ignition fuel and when BLU wins the whole thing fills with an effect similar to koth_nucleus's reactor.
This map is a perfect example of why playtesting every single tiny change is crucial to making a good map, this literal circle is more fun to play than some maps in the base game (*cough* wutville *cough*)
amazing map and amazing map design mate! i like the evolution of the map and how more detailed and balanced it became.
yknow im gonna play this map and think its fun whatsoever
this was actually an extremely interesting in depth video on map design
This video is proof that with enough effort, care, and consideration about your actual player base can make even A LITERAL CIRCLE fun. It's not fun not because it's just a circle but how much time was poured in making sure people had fun with that circle. Good stuff
I really love those experimentation. Level design is such a fun thing when it comes to multiplayer balancing.
I love the pyro at 0:25 that dies the second the uber drops lmao
overwatch would never allow you to stuff 100 players in a custom circle map
Oh god, all those ult voicelines
It won't even let you stuff more than 12 or 10 players in a map, much less 24 or 32.
GL getting 100 people to Play overwatch (0.9) nowadays😂😂😂😂😂
Overwatch doesn't even exist
Looks like cope
you should upload a version that is just LITERALLY a circle, no like teams in the high ground or team spawn rooms on the floor, both are on floor and its just a small little circle like before, total chaos.
By the end of all this development time this is basically the barest essence of a long single-stage multi-point map, with no flanks and only a main choke the whole way through. It even follows the routing of many single-stage payload maps where the cart naturally spirals toward the end, though in this case instead of the center of the map it simply loops back to (nearly) where it started, which is kind of interesting.
9:34 big brain heavy on right eats nade to jump up ledge what a play
Can't believe this... They put the Promenade from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine in TF2...
now it needs a wormhole that banishes you to 2fort where the shape shifting civilians live
I hope you realize how unique of an experience it is to be such a prolific creator in such a long-lived, die-hard community. It is an honor to play on the shounic trenches. I recently reinstalled TF2 after an 8 year hiatus, and your server has been an absolute thrill. It's like I'm playing TF2 for the first time again. Thank you.
Lobotomy fortress 2
"Throughout 2Fort and Dustbowl, I Alone Am The Rounded One"
Damn, it really took 50 days of constant resetting to push the cart to the end? That's some dedication right there. faith to your morals, willingness to stand up straight and all that.
Project moon sleeper agent
@@coffeegaming9863 uncle ben what happened
FIRST TRUMPET!!!
This name is far more appropriate here than to that 1998 Team Fortress 2: Brotherhood of Arms map with reactors and pipes.
Man, this level design shit is easy.
In all seriousness, this is a pretty interesting experiment, can't wait to see the response.
I feel like a good theme for this map if it gets an art pass would be as a Particle Accelerator
shoutout to that heavy that tickled the uber medic at 9:00
Ctf_hallway_of_death is this but even more cruel. As it offers the illusion of lanes
I feel like someone is going to art pass this so hard
This reminds me of when I used to play on the Xenogames server, which cycled maps based on other games, back when it actually had players. One of the maps was from Goldeneye-some kind of base, I never played real Goldeneye so I don’t know-and it was very much this spam city kind of deal. You could sort of call a winner, since the prime choke points the spam set up on were in spots just inside the bases and not on the neutral ground between, but still, it ultimately and quickly devolved into a spam war with no real way for either side to push through the firefight.
I really like the design process here to try and balance the circle. Definitely something I will probably come back to get ideas for my own levels
Love the natural selection take on balance. Makes even the most ridiculous maps become balanced through constant development isnt of bulk changes that might not work
Redmond and Blutarch when they have to explain to their mercenaries why taking this circle is incredibly important to the gravel wars.
1:43 *Laughs in Left Handed viewmodels*
Projectile and bullets still come out from the right side.
bullets come out the middle, projectiles are viewmodel sided
@@wile123456they don't, actually! Left handed view models actually make projectiles come from the left side
@@wile123456 [extremely loud incorrect buzzer sound]
@@ThatNoobKing how does it look from the enemy then?
Shounic, you didn't need to make an entire video to tell us that Soldier mains have severe brain rot and are entertained by literally nothing. We've known that for 17 years now.
The sheer number of people willing to do these stupid experiments has allowed us to make case studies on super weird ideas that could be very helpful information for mappers.
Probably one of the most interesting things about designing a map for 100 players is that any imbalance in the map is discovered super quickly.
The map looks fun despite being just circle. You're giving me the motivation to make my own tf2 map
0:14 "lab rats" lmao
this cut down hydro looks fun
Hydro mentioned
I love these series and how it highlights playtesting is really one of the biggest factors in balancing
It isn't really just a circle anymore
Of course, that's a donut🤓
@@No-ut1dn No, really more like a torus 🤓🥸🤓
I'm very intrigued to see what maps you might design for 100 player 4 team games
25 v25 v25 v25 sounds really fun especially considering you and your communities obvious talent and passion
4:48 SINK SPOTTED!!!!!
this would make a cool profile picture and i don't know why...
Honestly I really like the look of the very basic textures at the end; it gives the map very strong portal vibes, and although I haven't played it, I would think it helps a lot with visibility, which amidst all the spam is difficult enough as it is.
Now all you gotta do is artpass it.
I'd say make it a burning submarine in space, just saying.
Needs radium, tho.
"i'm about to turn you into an ammo kit" should be an actual threat
I can't believe shounic locked 100 people in Jevil's carousel
This a very fun map. Thank you for creating something so fun and fair for everyone. This is how good maps are made.
i feel like the final thing i would do is add various tunnels that connect different parts of the map
sure it might mess with the 'circle' theme a bit, but it'd give scout/spy some existence
I mean it really says a lot about the core gameplay of the 9 classes that you can put them on just about any piece of geometry called a "map" and a meta will emerge and people will engage with it.
BALLS
Dont even need to watch the video you already proved the title 😭
@@beatoid1006 I meant circle
This is genuinely a great video about map and general game design. Great stuff!
Making this map look like some sort of reactor room would look sick
Let me get this straight - you just thought that it would be fun to make a payload map in TF2 that's just a circle, and then balanced it.
Sounds like one of the most fun TF2 maps.
Art competition for this one is gonna be amazing!!
This is a great microcosm of the level design process
definitely needs a playground aesthetic
I was enjoying fighting on OG Achievement_Idle 12 years back. IMO the achievement maps are the most fun to play in. Change my mind.
Wow, we can literally have fun even in a small circle.
i love this type of game design where you just have a petri dish of 100 people and make adjustments from viewing them in game, idk why but its so cool to me for some reason
Let’s take a second to appreciate the Pyro who reflected a Mad Milk at 0:53
I would have never noticed that if you had never mentioned that, holy shit.
I think an art pass in the form of a fusion reactor being constructed/undergoing maintenance would be cool