Information from the comment: To get this dialogue, you need go to Ketheric's bedroom and the Mausoleum to find out about Ketheric family and history. So, what will happen if we show mercy to Ketheric Thorm after killing Dame Aylin? You can watch it in my newest video here: ruclips.net/video/vZUBwcEqTXY/видео.html And thanks for watching! Consider yourself to subscribe if you want to see more video like this. It will means a lot to me 😄
- Surrender Ketheric, fight by my side with evil. - No, it's too late for me, for my redemption. - But i have a pictures of Spider-Man. - You son of a b.... I'm in!!!
One has to be honest about it : serving three different deities in a single lifetime (First Selune, then Shar, then Myrkul) gave Ketheric a VERY peculiar insight of how godhood works in the Forgotten Realms, and how deities interact with each other. I mean, think about it : he served two sisters who simply won't get along, period. He saw both sides of the coin. And then he joined Myrkul, a more "neutral" deity, but still hellbent on bringing forth the apocalypse. And he DID give everything he had to prove himself worthy...with Myrkul being the only one to listen. THIS is horrendous. Ketheric Thorm dutifully served two of the most powerful deities of the whole Toril pantheon, and they discarded him as if he was worthless. And when he turned to Myrkul was the only time his patron deity actually answered. Ketheric Thorm was a pawn to Selune, then Shar, for decades, to no avail. It was all pointless, yet my man broke his vows TWICE, for two deities constantly fighting each other, and it cost him his wife AND his daughter. Name a more tragic villain.
I think that's the reason WHY he was treated like a pawn, though. He wasn't loyal. He abandoned everything the moment he experienced loss, even as he inflicted that same loss on others.
Ketheric's tragedy was being obsessed with control over his mortal life; he could serve the gods but only as long as he felt like he was actually getting the better end of the deal. He forgot the Selune kept his wife and daughter, that he would be reunited with them in the afterlife. It is not a hollow promise in the Forgotten Realms - the soul genuinely does live on. Only gods who have cruel agendas will generally just trade you power and favors like that in the mortal world, because they have no rewards for you in the afterlife.
This right here is why the lead singer from Green Day and crazy Margot Robbie should not have been the final villains. Ketheric could have (should have) been the BBEG before the final fight. He had everything he needed and was so much better.
I have to say, the build up to Moonrise was the most intense thing the first time I played this game. The fact we got this for all the hard work is just so crazy Love you Larian ❤
It’s shocking how much of a grasp ketheric has on this game despite not making it to the end. You’d think he was the main villain with how much presence he has
Yeah I was kinda expecting each of them to have a giant Dark Souls boss second phase. Must admit it was a little disappointing given how easily they both went down, but I guess the main boss of Act 3 is the Elder Brain, so it would feel a little overkill to give each of them a huge boss form too.
It’s not Myrkul himself it’s pretty much like an angel of Myrkul as said by the name of thrall you fight. It also doesn’t make sense for the literal god to come to the earthly plain just to fight you for killing his chosen, and then be killed so easily.
@@treygc3291 Its an avatar of myrkul. Gods in dnd like myrkul don't actually have a "physical" body. Despite this they can manifest avatars which act as their physical body (usually through a major ritual or very specific conditions). Destroying an avatar will disperse and weaken a deity for a time but it can be restored through a long period of time or other circumstances. The thing before you is myrkul, but a fraction of his real being (like a finger or hand compared to the entire body) allowing you to defeat him (Keep in mind myrkul is quite low on the divine totem pole and as a result his avatar is not that strong, an avatar of a lesser god like tiamat is said to be able to wreak havoc across the world. The reason he (and every other god) are not manifesting in full powered avatars is the ungodly amount of collateral damage it could cause, massive breach of divine rules, and a major disruption in the balance of things like good/evil or chaos/law. Also considering deities need mortals to act in their name and have faith to maintain and gain power, and myrkul being a quasi deity (the weakest type of "true" divinity) killing the chosen champion (a loyal and relatively competent one to boot) of the probably very small group of cultists he has left is something he would somewhat care about.
@@treygc3291 It is Myrkul himself, though he acts through an avatar. An avatar in FR is a means thorugh which a deity can enter the mortal world. The Slayer was likewise, an avatar of Bhaal. They are very powerful, but not at all comparable to the deity itself and thus beatable. In the tabletop community there's a running joke that a god's avatar is just the DM throwing a level-appropriate challenge at the party. Also, do note that in 5e Myrkul is a quasi-deity, the lowest rank (power-wise) among the gods. He is in fact barely a god and could himself be slain by a propely equiped, high level party. It makes sense that his avatar wouldn't be that great of a deal.
Tav: It isn't too late, Ketheric. There is always a chance for repentance, for atonement. Let me help you walk a better path. Aylin: *I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass. And I'm all. Out. Of bubble gum.*
Myrkul: "You dare end one who belongs to me? I am the smile of the worm-cleansed skull. I am the regrets of those who remain, and the restlessnesss of those who are gone. I am the haunt of the mausoleums, the god of graves and age, of dust and dusk. I am Myrkul, Lord of Bones, and you have slain my Chosen. But it is no matter. For I am Death. And I am not the end - I am a beginning." Lae'zel: "omg fr"
I had mercy on Kethric on my first playthrough. Just a troubled man that sacrifice everything (including his morals) for what he once had. A sad story of a man worn, withered, and disillusioned. I don't even know what Kethric can do cause I skipped that fight with him because I was merciful on him
I don’t entirely remember. Something like making a check onto the town and then again down below, same as the video shows. Don’t know if I did anything different
I have mixed feelings about the Thorm->Myrkul 2-stage boss fight. For one, my first playthrough was as a Paladin, so they kinda went down like chumps. It wasn't a terribly impressive showing. For two, like... Orin and Gortash can't top transforming into The Avatar of their god on death. They're inherently a step down from this moment, both in the drama that Ketheric was a good man once, so very long ago, and the actual, physical presence of Myrkul's Avatar that I promptly beat upside the head with the Blood of Lathander using multiple 3rd-level smites to kick that skeleton bastard back into whichever Hell he crawled out of.
Agreed. Woulda been interesting if the game had swapped act 3 and act 2. Some rewrites woulda been needed, but I think it woulda been cooler. Make orin very end of act 2
This is exactly what I thought. I love the game but I'm like it seems like their gods didn't like them as much as Myrkul liked Ketheric. Also this was a crazy scene when you think Ketheric may have changed his ways if Aylin never showed up.
@@02091992able She does but it doesn't feel as impactful or meaningful as when Ketheric dies and Myrkul comes. Its probably because there isn't any real phases to it plus the form isn't that strong even on honor mode it wasn't that strong. If not on honor mode you can just push her off a cliff worst comes to worst its kind of crazy imo.
>having a summary +13 for the check with difficulty 10 >it means that you literally can't fail it unless you roll 1 >adding guidance anyway So, no rest for a -whicked- Shadowheart?
Is it just me, or does it feel like Aylin's rage interrupts a possible redemption for Ketheric? Like, he might've actually returned to the man he once was if she didn't force him to fight and fall back on the powers granted to him by Merkyl
Ketheric is the one who lit that fiery rage. His destiny was decided when he chose to inflict untold torment to Aylin. She would not abide his existence.
@@miguelcondadoolivar5149 She's a movanic deva, she can't help herself. To celestials evil is not simply a lack of morality but a component of inherent polarity of the universe, they are opposed to it on the level of their very being. Celestials and fiends are not like mortals, they literally have no choice in the matter and will always hate the opposite alignment. Even Zariel absolutely hates devils despite being an archdevil and only sticks around because Blood War allows her to kill more devils and demons.
I really wish that Gortash and Orin had in game lore like Ketheric. I love that you get to hear Ketheric talk about why he did what he did, and why old Ketheric and new Ketheric are two different people. How old Ketheric died years ago. You get to see his venerability and true empathize with him. He gets emotionally emotionless.
Myrkul: I am the god of death, fear my avatar Laezel, who has already dealt with too much bullshit since falling off the Nautilus: Awwww shit, here we go again.
I went through this fight twice, one with skipping Ketheric fight and one not. I find that skipping Ketheric fight is actually more challenging. Cause the Ketheric fight allows me to release the Nightsong and put my guys in right position for the avatar fight. While if Ketheric fight get skipped, the avatar would have several turns to summon minions which is headache.
I was able to release the nightsong before skipping the second Ketheric fight by playing a Duergar and walking up to her invisible and using my first turn to release her.
You can just order Astarion with double dash to go to the Nightsong before the dialogue even beguins. Alternatively, you could order a high str character or githyanki to jump there.
Not that hard a fight when you remember that you can summon whatever you want before the fight and use the recharge point for full magic slot restores. I went in with multiple elementals (both minor and greater), a couple of Mephits, a Dryad, a Wood Woad and most importantly a Cambion (seriously, Wyll's reward for saving Mizora is obscene, that Cambion summon is mighty for a free action.....). When you outnumber his forces greatly and still can Misty Step and blast AoE's/multi-shots at will the fight gets much easier, especially since the elementals give free setup for elemental combinations.
well as far as i can tell it was still the same, though it's been a while since i've played with dark urge origin. Who knows maybe they added something
Dark Urge has one line of dialogue where you can threaten Ketheric with some grisly retribution before the start of the second half of phase 1 boss fight. His response is something along the lines of "that might impress a rabid dog like Orrin but it doesn't frighten me"
Dark Urge has much more to say with Gortash. Thorm was planning to betray the alliance the entire time anyway. So it makes sense that he wouldn't really do much different whether you were DU, Tav. or playing as another origin.
1:40 “But the gods beat me first.” Brilliant, tragic character. He could turn to no one else, and every single god had failed him tragedy after tragedy, loss after loss of a loved one. Until in the end, he also failed himself. Sad he couldn’t see any path for redemption 😢
On my first playthrough the cutscene bugged so after I convinced Thorm to repent we were all transported to what looked like a heaven sort of plane, a really unfinished one though.
Selune doesn't rescue her own daughter and doesn't save his family. I can certainly understand him believing that they are just being coins in their purse.
@@fromheartforyoursoul4592 We fight Ketheric Thorm twice, first this fight, and the second inside the castle. This choice didn't skip the first boss fight, we still need to fight him. But if we choose this dialogue, the second boss fight with Ketheric will be skipped, and we instantly fight Myrkul instead
Not everyone can be redeemed. Ketheric dug himself too deep for too long. He spent multiple lifetimes committing horrific atrocities on a massive geographic scale, he betrayed the initial values of his wife and children, destroyed his community, betrayed his god and then the god he betrayed her to, has a vast multi-chamber cavern system below his castle made out of the flesh of his victims to house new ones, and promised himself to one of the three. Consider what the durge goes through to try and escape his father (one of said trio) even after stacking every advantage and multiple mentors and the over-god of reality itself on his side. Offering redemption is one thing but Ketheric Thorm lacks the willingness, ability and circumstances to see it through. Its like the Killing Joke, we're shining a light between two rooftops and asking him to walk across to our side.
And this is why I'll always hate Aylin, I was so excited in my first play through. I thought I was going to get Ketheric as a badass companion but she showed up and had to DMPC her way into it.
Hi, if you still interested, i've just upload new video about it (kill Nightsong then show mercy to Ketheric). You can watch it here: ruclips.net/video/vZUBwcEqTXY/видео.html
Instead of Aylin coming in and saying Ketheric would rather die than lie down his rank, Ketheric decides to pull rank on you saying he's Chosen and attacks you all the same. Just did this yesterday
she is a paladin of vengeance, if she spared him, she would become an oath breaker, which would have been an awesome turn in the story. In Act 3 she would become a boss, seeking vengeance upon you as a way to reclaim her oath and atone
She's right though. Even with her not here, Ketheric turns on you after actually considering your offer. He either chooses to do so or his god steps in. He's dug himself too deep and done too much for a redemption to work out. Dude literally built a vast sprawling cavern out of the flesh of his innocent victims. He's one of the Three's chosen. Durge has to go through all sorts of hell with every advantage stacked in his favor, one of which is the overgod of reality, just for one outcome where he free's himself of his father.
I mean, he imprisoned her for 100yrs stealing her power, and she was tortured by the Sharrans and Balthazar in all that time. All while thinking her wife was dead. Would you really accept his surrender after all that when you're finally free.
When i showed him mercy, neither I nor my friends expected him to just, FALL. then comes back as THAT THING! I misty stepped towards him, i played as an Eldritch Knight with the helmet, heavy armor and longsword from the Forge. that was one hell of a fight!
@@eeefe972 You can, there are two mithral ores around the Forge. The helmet is from Grym itself, armor from the first mithral ore, and the longsword from the second.
Does anyone know what happens if you try to go this route, but you have killed Nightsong? If Aylin can't show up to basically force the fight, what causes Ketheric to go hostile on the rooftop?
shes still held in chains at the right behind his dome and you can free her in the fight against myrkul, last light inn npc are only dying if you fail to save isobel when the dude with the wings takes her
There's actually an unique dialogue if we kill Aylin. I already record it recently and will post it later. So I already upload it. You can watch it here: ruclips.net/video/vZUBwcEqTXY/видео.html
What an sad irony. I imagine Ketheric's thoughts or words were such: "So, how does it feel when death takes YOUR OWN daughter, Selune? Did it need so radical measures to you pay attention to your humble servant? Did it suddenly cure your deafness for my prayers?"
The only good thing about Ketheric was his VA, and even then it's not JK Simmon's best performance. The chosen of the Dead Three were a major disappointment.
Thorm boss battle feels a little bs when you have him on the ground surrounded by three people whaling on him and then he's just like "enough" and cutscene teleports out
Oh wow, I genuinely thought showing mercy made no difference since you still get into a boss fight afterwards. It didn't even came to my mind that there could be two fights after the other and I just skipped one of them
It was totally contrived tbh. I remember how disappointed midturn I was interrupted to let Aylin be hit by the Netherbrain and Ketheric to escape. His other phases and the oubliette are fun at least
@@pryordevine3855 He doesn't, Ketheric just gets pissed suddenly, saying he's the chosen and he has all this power. To be fair he was completely right except you turn out to be holding the githyanki prism which makes him mad and starts the battle anyways
@@TheEpicSpire there is more than one way to exact vengeance, also, where is it stated that she's a paladin? that question isn't meant to fight, it's meant to inquire, because i haven't seen anything that says that.
I haven't try that but someone in the comment said that it just skipped to Ketheric angry without additional dialogue. I still need to check it by myself. So, I already check it and make new video about it. You can watch it here: ruclips.net/video/vZUBwcEqTXY/видео.html
Kinda lame that pretty much nothing changes. Feels like getting hit with a railroad DM that really wants things to go a certain way, just giving you a little extra dialouge as a consolation for snooping.
I had a crazy bug during the Myrkul fight where all the enemies, as well as myrkul and Aylin, would not move or attack. I just had to wait till their turns automatically ended, which turned the fight into a cakewalk. A little anticlimactic, but I wasn't going to waste the opportunity
somebody pls answer me this. is it possible to defeat ketheric after killing nightsong?? every blow on him is a miss and he 2 shots all of my companions
And i have already been the inheritor of your hunger, and have stood upon your corpse and spoke with you as an equal Myrkul. I am afraid you hold no terrors for me, Lord of Bones.
Which is purpose invoked as its a key theme in BG3 of what happens when you deal with the Gods. whether you are enslaved by them, willingly chose them as your patron, being raised with them as your god, or made an Oath to them, even if you're their most elite warrior, their special princess, or their closest lover, they will sacrifice you for their goals without trouble or hesitation. Even if Aylin isnt here, Ketheric's oath to his god will have him possessed and he will engage you anyway. After betraying his previous two deities, his third saw fit to have a fail safe.
Information from the comment: To get this dialogue, you need go to Ketheric's bedroom and the Mausoleum to find out about Ketheric family and history.
So, what will happen if we show mercy to Ketheric Thorm after killing Dame Aylin? You can watch it in my newest video here: ruclips.net/video/vZUBwcEqTXY/видео.html
And thanks for watching! Consider yourself to subscribe if you want to see more video like this. It will means a lot to me 😄
Wasn’t it a 30 roll back in October?
@@Chadius_Thundercock which makes way more sense, given that you are like... completly changing his thoughts
You also need to offer him the chance to repent right before the roof battle as well.
JK Simmons as Ketheric Thorm was one of the greatest decisions a video game has made for a VA. He was perfect for the role
Neil, Amelia and Simmons all have absolutely blow-up performances
So it is JK i knew i know this iconic voice somewhere
didn't realized that it's him until I've seen this comment i thought he sounded familiar
Too bad its probably the main reason you barely get to interact with him (expensive)
I wonder what would have happened had Dame Aylin not intervened. Would he have surrendered there and then, or would he have fought instead.
Apparently not. Fuck Aylin though. She's far from good
- Surrender Ketheric, fight by my side with evil.
- No, it's too late for me, for my redemption.
- But i have a pictures of Spider-Man.
- You son of a b.... I'm in!!!
He will do anything for a Spider Man pictures 🤣🤣
Love this 😂
One has to be honest about it : serving three different deities in a single lifetime (First Selune, then Shar, then Myrkul) gave Ketheric a VERY peculiar insight of how godhood works in the Forgotten Realms, and how deities interact with each other.
I mean, think about it : he served two sisters who simply won't get along, period. He saw both sides of the coin. And then he joined Myrkul, a more "neutral" deity, but still hellbent on bringing forth the apocalypse.
And he DID give everything he had to prove himself worthy...with Myrkul being the only one to listen. THIS is horrendous. Ketheric Thorm dutifully served two of the most powerful deities of the whole Toril pantheon, and they discarded him as if he was worthless. And when he turned to Myrkul was the only time his patron deity actually answered.
Ketheric Thorm was a pawn to Selune, then Shar, for decades, to no avail. It was all pointless, yet my man broke his vows TWICE, for two deities constantly fighting each other, and it cost him his wife AND his daughter.
Name a more tragic villain.
People call myrkul evil but what does it says about other 'good' gods that he is the one who answers.
Unreal comment. I dabbled in the boooks in the game but you framed this story bbeautifully. Holy shit.
I think that's the reason WHY he was treated like a pawn, though. He wasn't loyal. He abandoned everything the moment he experienced loss, even as he inflicted that same loss on others.
Ketheric's tragedy was being obsessed with control over his mortal life; he could serve the gods but only as long as he felt like he was actually getting the better end of the deal.
He forgot the Selune kept his wife and daughter, that he would be reunited with them in the afterlife. It is not a hollow promise in the Forgotten Realms - the soul genuinely does live on. Only gods who have cruel agendas will generally just trade you power and favors like that in the mortal world, because they have no rewards for you in the afterlife.
This right here is why the lead singer from Green Day and crazy Margot Robbie should not have been the final villains. Ketheric could have (should have) been the BBEG before the final fight. He had everything he needed and was so much better.
I have to say, the build up to Moonrise was the most intense thing the first time I played this game. The fact we got this for all the hard work is just so crazy Love you Larian ❤
It’s shocking how much of a grasp ketheric has on this game despite not making it to the end. You’d think he was the main villain with how much presence he has
out of the 3 chosen, this one was my favorite, a shame that orin and gortash dont turn into giant monsters to fight too (slayer orin doesnt count)
and yet Orin was a much, much more difficult fight.
Yeah I was kinda expecting each of them to have a giant Dark Souls boss second phase. Must admit it was a little disappointing given how easily they both went down, but I guess the main boss of Act 3 is the Elder Brain, so it would feel a little overkill to give each of them a huge boss form too.
@@SuperheroRockstaridk bro I 1 turned her when gale busted all her stacks of unstoppable with magic missile then my lvl 12 fighter 3 tapped her
@@SuperheroRockstar You can kill orin in 1- 2 turns, she is undeniably the easiest of the three chosen
@@SuperheroRockstar ketheric took me days to beat, I beat Orin first try
God damn Myrkul's character design is dope as hell
It is really cool I really enjoy the triangle/hood thing he has around his head because its his holy symbol
Myrkul's monologue is so sick.
It’s not Myrkul himself it’s pretty much like an angel of Myrkul as said by the name of thrall you fight. It also doesn’t make sense for the literal god to come to the earthly plain just to fight you for killing his chosen, and then be killed so easily.
@@treygc3291 Its an avatar of myrkul. Gods in dnd like myrkul don't actually have a "physical" body. Despite this they can manifest avatars which act as their physical body (usually through a major ritual or very specific conditions). Destroying an avatar will disperse and weaken a deity for a time but it can be restored through a long period of time or other circumstances. The thing before you is myrkul, but a fraction of his real being (like a finger or hand compared to the entire body) allowing you to defeat him (Keep in mind myrkul is quite low on the divine totem pole and as a result his avatar is not that strong, an avatar of a lesser god like tiamat is said to be able to wreak havoc across the world. The reason he (and every other god) are not manifesting in full powered avatars is the ungodly amount of collateral damage it could cause, massive breach of divine rules, and a major disruption in the balance of things like good/evil or chaos/law.
Also considering deities need mortals to act in their name and have faith to maintain and gain power, and myrkul being a quasi deity (the weakest type of "true" divinity) killing the chosen champion (a loyal and relatively competent one to boot) of the probably very small group of cultists he has left is something he would somewhat care about.
@@treygc3291 It is Myrkul himself, though he acts through an avatar. An avatar in FR is a means thorugh which a deity can enter the mortal world. The Slayer was likewise, an avatar of Bhaal. They are very powerful, but not at all comparable to the deity itself and thus beatable. In the tabletop community there's a running joke that a god's avatar is just the DM throwing a level-appropriate challenge at the party.
Also, do note that in 5e Myrkul is a quasi-deity, the lowest rank (power-wise) among the gods. He is in fact barely a god and could himself be slain by a propely equiped, high level party. It makes sense that his avatar wouldn't be that great of a deal.
Tav: It isn't too late, Ketheric. There is always a chance for repentance, for atonement. Let me help you walk a better path.
Aylin: *I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass. And I'm all. Out. Of bubble gum.*
Aylin: I am here to kick ass and chew bubble gum
Ketherik: What is bubble gum?
Aylin: *_E X A C T L Y_*
JK Simmons has a really good voice for voice acting.
Myrkul: "You dare end one who belongs to me? I am the smile of the worm-cleansed skull. I am the regrets of those who remain, and the restlessnesss of those who are gone. I am the haunt of the mausoleums, the god of graves and age, of dust and dusk. I am Myrkul, Lord of Bones, and you have slain my Chosen. But it is no matter. For I am Death. And I am not the end - I am a beginning."
Lae'zel: "omg fr"
I had mercy on Kethric on my first playthrough. Just a troubled man that sacrifice everything (including his morals) for what he once had. A sad story of a man worn, withered, and disillusioned. I don't even know what Kethric can do cause I skipped that fight with him because I was merciful on him
How?
I don’t entirely remember. Something like making a check onto the town and then again down below, same as the video shows. Don’t know if I did anything different
@@Wax_Man you can't skip the fight
the one downstairs yes. Not the Myrkl fight but the second Kethric fight@@ANALFISTINGVAN
I did too. He had a lot of bad circumstances around him. Still not good but he deserved another chance
I have mixed feelings about the Thorm->Myrkul 2-stage boss fight.
For one, my first playthrough was as a Paladin, so they kinda went down like chumps. It wasn't a terribly impressive showing.
For two, like... Orin and Gortash can't top transforming into The Avatar of their god on death. They're inherently a step down from this moment, both in the drama that Ketheric was a good man once, so very long ago, and the actual, physical presence of Myrkul's Avatar that I promptly beat upside the head with the Blood of Lathander using multiple 3rd-level smites to kick that skeleton bastard back into whichever Hell he crawled out of.
Agreed. Woulda been interesting if the game had swapped act 3 and act 2. Some rewrites woulda been needed, but I think it woulda been cooler. Make orin very end of act 2
This is exactly what I thought. I love the game but I'm like it seems like their gods didn't like them as much as Myrkul liked Ketheric. Also this was a crazy scene when you think Ketheric may have changed his ways if Aylin never showed up.
Raphael was the true 2nd Boss imo... the other two were just side characters
Does Orin turn into the Slayer if you are not playing the Durge or playing a redeeming Durge?
@@02091992able She does but it doesn't feel as impactful or meaningful as when Ketheric dies and Myrkul comes. Its probably because there isn't any real phases to it plus the form isn't that strong even on honor mode it wasn't that strong. If not on honor mode you can just push her off a cliff worst comes to worst its kind of crazy imo.
>having a summary +13 for the check with difficulty 10
>it means that you literally can't fail it unless you roll 1
>adding guidance anyway
So, no rest for a -whicked- Shadowheart?
Shadowheart's fate is simple. Guidance and Spirit Guardians.
@@Polomance862 it’s her fucking fault for having the accuracy of a crackhead after drinking 10 bottles of vodka
She's like a blender that tells you what to put in it @@Polomance862
Honey wake up, it's time for another skill check
Ketheric Thorm is such an awesome character
Such an incredible villain
Is it just me, or does it feel like Aylin's rage interrupts a possible redemption for Ketheric? Like, he might've actually returned to the man he once was if she didn't force him to fight and fall back on the powers granted to him by Merkyl
I did this whole plotline having killed Nightsong/Aylin, and Ketheric turns on you anyways. He's accepting at first but suddenly seems possessed.
@@Davis190 how sad, that could've been a really cool and powerful scene
@@Davis190 Seems like lazy writing.
Ketheric is the one who lit that fiery rage. His destiny was decided when he chose to inflict untold torment to Aylin. She would not abide his existence.
@@miguelcondadoolivar5149 She's a movanic deva, she can't help herself. To celestials evil is not simply a lack of morality but a component of inherent polarity of the universe, they are opposed to it on the level of their very being. Celestials and fiends are not like mortals, they literally have no choice in the matter and will always hate the opposite alignment. Even Zariel absolutely hates devils despite being an archdevil and only sticks around because Blood War allows her to kill more devils and demons.
The transition for the phase skip feels kinda clunky, at first I thought my game bugged out when it happened.
Same, I reloaded a couple of times to check if I didn't skip a cutscene.
I really wish that Gortash and Orin had in game lore like Ketheric. I love that you get to hear Ketheric talk about why he did what he did, and why old Ketheric and new Ketheric are two different people. How old Ketheric died years ago.
You get to see his venerability and true empathize with him. He gets emotionally emotionless.
Emotionally emotionless... that's poetic!
I think only Orin comes even slightly close, and to learn any of her lore you have to play as a very specific origins character
Tss-KVA!
Myrkul: I am the god of death, fear my avatar
Laezel, who has already dealt with too much bullshit since falling off the Nautilus: Awwww shit, here we go again.
I went through this fight twice, one with skipping Ketheric fight and one not. I find that skipping Ketheric fight is actually more challenging. Cause the Ketheric fight allows me to release the Nightsong and put my guys in right position for the avatar fight. While if Ketheric fight get skipped, the avatar would have several turns to summon minions which is headache.
I was able to release the nightsong before skipping the second Ketheric fight by playing a Duergar and walking up to her invisible and using my first turn to release her.
You can just order Astarion with double dash to go to the Nightsong before the dialogue even beguins. Alternatively, you could order a high str character or githyanki to jump there.
I just went straight in of the skeleton and killed him in like 2 or 3 turns, my party’s damage output plus dame aylins was insnae
Not that hard a fight when you remember that you can summon whatever you want before the fight and use the recharge point for full magic slot restores. I went in with multiple elementals (both minor and greater), a couple of Mephits, a Dryad, a Wood Woad and most importantly a Cambion (seriously, Wyll's reward for saving Mizora is obscene, that Cambion summon is mighty for a free action.....). When you outnumber his forces greatly and still can Misty Step and blast AoE's/multi-shots at will the fight gets much easier, especially since the elementals give free setup for elemental combinations.
i just put scratch in position to release the night song before i start the fight
I must say, I am speechless. Showing compassion to him really makes me feel bad for someone as him.
I wanna try this to see of theres any special dialogue with the Dark Urge
Tell me if you already done that. I'm curious too
well as far as i can tell it was still the same, though it's been a while since i've played with dark urge origin. Who knows maybe they added something
Dark Urge has one line of dialogue where you can threaten Ketheric with some grisly retribution before the start of the second half of phase 1 boss fight. His response is something along the lines of "that might impress a rabid dog like Orrin but it doesn't frighten me"
Dark Urge has much more to say with Gortash. Thorm was planning to betray the alliance the entire time anyway. So it makes sense that he wouldn't really do much different whether you were DU, Tav. or playing as another origin.
1:40 “But the gods beat me first.” Brilliant, tragic character. He could turn to no one else, and every single god had failed him tragedy after tragedy, loss after loss of a loved one. Until in the end, he also failed himself. Sad he couldn’t see any path for redemption 😢
I managed to talk no jutsu Ketheric twice, he ran away from me on the roof, skipped to the end of the battle, not sure if that was intended
leave it to an aasimar to ruin any form of peaceful outcome
On my first playthrough the cutscene bugged so after I convinced Thorm to repent we were all transported to what looked like a heaven sort of plane, a really unfinished one though.
Wait so I’ve been skipping a fight with Ketheric…. That explains why it seemed a bit too easy
Not going to lie this actually makes the boss fight more difficult.
Yee having all the enemies up makes it harder
Do you hear?! BOW! 🔥
Anger is countered with anger. You get what you give.
I felt like Ketheric should of been an act 3 boss. Orin and Gortash just wernt as imposing. But i understand why they went that route.
This was one of my favorite scenes in the game. Thank you for uploading this!
Your welcome! Glad you like it!
I can’t believe Ketheric was voiced by J.K. Simmons. He truly is talented.
Selune doesn't rescue her own daughter and doesn't save his family. I can certainly understand him believing that they are just being coins in their purse.
It's a shame that all it does is give some extra dialogue, but the end result is still the same. Feels like a waste of effort.
Yes, not much thing will change. But this dialogue skip Ketheric Thorm boss fight and let you fight Myrkul instantly
i had the same choices as dark urge and did the same but how does this skip the boss? you also fight it at 03:26 but you cut the video? @@TjoaJunChoi
@@fromheartforyoursoul4592 We fight Ketheric Thorm twice, first this fight, and the second inside the castle. This choice didn't skip the first boss fight, we still need to fight him. But if we choose this dialogue, the second boss fight with Ketheric will be skipped, and we instantly fight Myrkul instead
Not everyone can be redeemed. Ketheric dug himself too deep for too long. He spent multiple lifetimes committing horrific atrocities on a massive geographic scale, he betrayed the initial values of his wife and children, destroyed his community, betrayed his god and then the god he betrayed her to, has a vast multi-chamber cavern system below his castle made out of the flesh of his victims to house new ones, and promised himself to one of the three.
Consider what the durge goes through to try and escape his father (one of said trio) even after stacking every advantage and multiple mentors and the over-god of reality itself on his side.
Offering redemption is one thing but Ketheric Thorm lacks the willingness, ability and circumstances to see it through. Its like the Killing Joke, we're shining a light between two rooftops and asking him to walk across to our side.
And this is why I'll always hate Aylin, I was so excited in my first play through. I thought I was going to get Ketheric as a badass companion but she showed up and had to DMPC her way into it.
I wonder what happens if shadow heart kills the nightsong and you talk General Thorm down?
Nightsong wouldn’t be there to interrupt in that case
Hi, if you still interested, i've just upload new video about it (kill Nightsong then show mercy to Ketheric). You can watch it here: ruclips.net/video/vZUBwcEqTXY/видео.html
I managed to get Ketherik to see reason. He was about to be saved, but fucking rat with wings had to come in looking for a fight.
Myrkul reminds me of mechanicus teaser trailer so hard
What happens if dame Aylin wasn’t there(if she dies during the shadowheart mission)
I'm curious too but havent try it yet. But I will try it later
So I just got there and I’m currently fighting 4 vs 10. No jareiha, no nightsong. It’s difficult.
@@TjoaJunChoiit’s not fun lolol maybe I’ll try to persuade him instead hahaha
Happened to me. Hell of a fight but the scum is killable!
Instead of Aylin coming in and saying Ketheric would rather die than lie down his rank, Ketheric decides to pull rank on you saying he's Chosen and attacks you all the same. Just did this yesterday
Aylin friggin ruining everything
she is a paladin of vengeance, if she spared him, she would become an oath breaker, which would have been an awesome turn in the story. In Act 3 she would become a boss, seeking vengeance upon you as a way to reclaim her oath and atone
She's right though. Even with her not here, Ketheric turns on you after actually considering your offer. He either chooses to do so or his god steps in. He's dug himself too deep and done too much for a redemption to work out. Dude literally built a vast sprawling cavern out of the flesh of his innocent victims. He's one of the Three's chosen. Durge has to go through all sorts of hell with every advantage stacked in his favor, one of which is the overgod of reality, just for one outcome where he free's himself of his father.
I mean, he imprisoned her for 100yrs stealing her power, and she was tortured by the Sharrans and Balthazar in all that time. All while thinking her wife was dead. Would you really accept his surrender after all that when you're finally free.
When i showed him mercy, neither I nor my friends expected him to just, FALL. then comes back as THAT THING! I misty stepped towards him, i played as an Eldritch Knight with the helmet, heavy armor and longsword from the Forge. that was one hell of a fight!
Ur a liar as u can't get the helmet longsword and armor from the forge
@@eeefe972 You can, there are two mithral ores around the Forge. The helmet is from Grym itself, armor from the first mithral ore, and the longsword from the second.
@@raphezar2049 oh ok I thought u meant a helmet from the forge itself lol
Bro is bitching about his father dead and I had 5 scrolls of reviving in my pocket
Yo, I just realized he’s got the same voice actor as Omni man
Pretty cool, right? 😄
Bro I didn’t slay your chosen lol this guy chose to unalive himself, the work life balance of your employees must be crap
Does anyone know what happens if you try to go this route, but you have killed Nightsong? If Aylin can't show up to basically force the fight, what causes Ketheric to go hostile on the rooftop?
Gortash and Orin really just didn't have the depth or character that Ketheric did. story-wise they felt trivial by comparison.
Did Aylin/Nightsong die in this cut scene? Dies this mean everyone in Last Light inn died too?
No, Aylin didn't die. She just got captured by Ketheric and we must save her to beat Ketheric later
shes still held in chains at the right behind his dome and you can free her in the fight against myrkul, last light inn npc are only dying if you fail to save isobel when the dude with the wings takes her
JK Simmons goes so damn hard in this game
i never saw the angel...i had to end her and his daughter before the end...baldurs gate is ...awesome..
They wanted to make him redeemable to the point of being a companion. Shame we didn't get that here. Would've been dope
Still have never seen anyone do this while killing Nightsong, this cutscene has been uploaded a billion times but everytime they have Nightsong alive
I will try to do this when Aylin dead. But maybe it will take a while to upload
I've done it without killing Nightsong! What do you want to know!?
@@Davis190So what happen after Ketheric kneel?
@@TjoaJunChoi It skips to him standing up saying you have to bow, like he's possessed or something XD
@@Davis190 What the hell. Thats just so weird 🤣
He shoulda been the last boss and had more lines/story.
What happens if you kill Aylin and then ask ketheric to repent?
I've just upload new video about it (kill Nightsong then show mercy to Ketheric). You can watch it here: ruclips.net/video/vZUBwcEqTXY/видео.html
how do you get a +6 to proficiency and expertise?
I think its from ability after I level up. I kinda forgot
Ketheric: hoo boo, I lost everything, I wanna die!
Tav: Stop being dramatic
Aylin: Die, monster!
Ketheric: No, you
Ketheric and Myrkul go so hard as villains. I found them so much more interesting and impressive than both Orin, Gortash and their respective gods
Bhaal is a terrifying God if you play as the dark urge, he uses you like a plaything and worms his way through your blood
He should have been a later boss real.
Do you get this option if you let Shadowheart kill Aylin, meaning she can't interrupt his surrender?
There's actually an unique dialogue if we kill Aylin. I already record it recently and will post it later.
So I already upload it. You can watch it here: ruclips.net/video/vZUBwcEqTXY/видео.html
FUCK! I now imagine, what would it sound like, if Christopher Lee, was the voice actor! Holy...
Apparently at one point Kethric was suppose recruitable.
What an sad irony. I imagine Ketheric's thoughts or words were such:
"So, how does it feel when death takes YOUR OWN daughter, Selune? Did it need so radical measures to you pay attention to your humble servant? Did it suddenly cure your deafness for my prayers?"
The only good thing about Ketheric was his VA, and even then it's not JK Simmon's best performance. The chosen of the Dead Three were a major disappointment.
I remember being impressed with both Astarion and Ketheric's voice overs. Astarion got an award and Ketheric was fkn JK Simmons. Flawless.
the fact JK SImmons gave 110% for a video game role. Cave Johnson was great, but this is on a whole other level.
Thorm boss battle feels a little bs when you have him on the ground surrounded by three people whaling on him and then he's just like "enough" and cutscene teleports out
In the past, he could have been brought over to his side. It's a shame the developers didn't include that.
This game won the award game of the year? Main character can't even speak 🤮
Kethric is my favorite enemy in this game. He was just so well written compared to everyone else.
Honestly, I think this was the first time I saw one of J.K. simmons’ roles where he is this vulnerable.
Never understood the purpose of the firts option. I suppose it makes easier the other DC
kinda annoying that there's speech checks that literally do nothing
Oh wow, I genuinely thought showing mercy made no difference since you still get into a boss fight afterwards. It didn't even came to my mind that there could be two fights after the other and I just skipped one of them
I hated the fact Aylin fucked us over and got herself captured
It was totally contrived tbh. I remember how disappointed midturn I was interrupted to let Aylin be hit by the Netherbrain and Ketheric to escape.
His other phases and the oubliette are fun at least
What's funny is that it looks as though he might actually return to Selune until Aylin shows up fully enraged and starving for blood.
@@pryordevine3855 He doesn't, Ketheric just gets pissed suddenly, saying he's the chosen and he has all this power. To be fair he was completely right except you turn out to be holding the githyanki prism which makes him mad and starts the battle anyways
@@pryordevine3855 she is a paladin of vengeance, she would literally become an oath breaker if she spared Ketheric
@@TheEpicSpire there is more than one way to exact vengeance, also, where is it stated that she's a paladin? that question isn't meant to fight, it's meant to inquire, because i haven't seen anything that says that.
so...nothing changed
I defeated the entire Thorm family ( besides Isobel ) non violently, by convincing them to kill themselves.
Lord Myrkul and Lord Marrowgar would get a long so well.
"Bound by bone...!"
From all the acts I would say act 2 was the best one. Just the constant build up and the reveal easily knock out act 1 and 3 out of the park.
Christ your character is a nightmare
It sucks I never got a chance to talk to ketheric at the top of the tower it just went straight to combat.
"Surrendered"
What happens if you let Shadow Heart kill the Nightsong and then show Ketheric mercy?
I haven't try that but someone in the comment said that it just skipped to Ketheric angry without additional dialogue. I still need to check it by myself.
So, I already check it and make new video about it. You can watch it here: ruclips.net/video/vZUBwcEqTXY/видео.html
Kinda lame that pretty much nothing changes. Feels like getting hit with a railroad DM that really wants things to go a certain way, just giving you a little extra dialouge as a consolation for snooping.
omni man :o
I had a crazy bug during the Myrkul fight where all the enemies, as well as myrkul and Aylin, would not move or attack. I just had to wait till their turns automatically ended, which turned the fight into a cakewalk. A little anticlimactic, but I wasn't going to waste the opportunity
It's sometimes happen in my playthrough too, but in different battle
I feel like him killing himself makes the fight much harder.
JK Simmons slays yet another role
somebody pls answer me this. is it possible to defeat ketheric after killing nightsong?? every blow on him is a miss and he 2 shots all of my companions
yeah its possible, if you make shadowheart a dark justiciar you have to k1ll nightsong, and then you can fight him.
To bad that no mather what u do u need to fight him..... Ther shud be possibility to bring his dother to him and that she save him from death.
lol so its not only me who have this huge fps drop when the tentacle breaks roof?
I rolled a nat 20 to convince him to surrender {intimidation} and it went ignored
Oh, is that so? Maybe he didn't like it when we intimidate him?
what happens in the first part if aylin is dead?
If you still curious, you can see what happen in my newest video: ruclips.net/video/vZUBwcEqTXY/видео.html
This is how my first playthrough went
That hat with that armour 🤦🏻
Does Ketheric have the same voice actor as Krabs?
No. Ketheric is voiced by JK Simmons. Mr. Krabs is voiced by Clancy Brown.
Thanks, i knew i recognized his voice but i couldn't tell@eileenconway2966
Well you don't fight Myrkul. You fight a possessed Kethetic.
And i have already been the inheritor of your hunger, and have stood upon your corpse and spoke with you as an equal Myrkul. I am afraid you hold no terrors for me, Lord of Bones.
Ah, the illusion of choice.
Which is purpose invoked as its a key theme in BG3 of what happens when you deal with the Gods. whether you are enslaved by them, willingly chose them as your patron, being raised with them as your god, or made an Oath to them, even if you're their most elite warrior, their special princess, or their closest lover, they will sacrifice you for their goals without trouble or hesitation.
Even if Aylin isnt here, Ketheric's oath to his god will have him possessed and he will engage you anyway. After betraying his previous two deities, his third saw fit to have a fail safe.
So basically, don't bother.
He dies anyways.
Got it.
I didn't get these options. what da heck
What? That's weird
The options only show up if you went snooping through Ketheric's bedroom and the Mausoleum, otherwise your character wouldn't know about his family
@@Jack-df8rk Ohh, that's explain everything!