Thank you for watching the video. If you want to see more you can subscribe and like the video. My other channels: Skyrim & Fallout channel: www.youtube.com/@FerzenTES RPG games: www.youtube.com/@FerzenRPG Total War: www.youtube.com/@FerzenTotalWar RDR2: www.youtube.com/@FerzenRockstar
they abused him and sold him to raphael to my understanding. Another example of the cycle of abuse continuing, considering Gortash did the same to Karlach.
Sounds like Gortash was a totally normal child and selling him to this warlock is what made him the way he was, but even when he was more evil after that he was the most reasonable of the three by far. Parents deserve their fate tbh LOL
If you do some digging, and reading in The House of Hope, you find that the "Warlock" that they sold him to, was Raphael in disguise. He wasn't sold to a Warlock. He was sold to a devil.
Its acually kind of sad when you think about the fact Gortash made them say all the things about mouring him and being proud, like he was creating the family he always wanted. Especially the bit about being his fathers apprentice, like he was trying to convince himself amf everyone that was what really happened.... Im gonna go cry now
Hurt people hurt people. It doesnt absolve Gortash of what he did, but it puts it into context. Its also why some evil path players wished the Gortash alliance didnt have Gortash taken out so early. He could have been an interesting final ally in the final battle (Imagine - Baneite support as an alternative to Ironhand)
@@timetochronicle this is just not true at all- the game is drunk on the Freudian excuse. The fact is most people who do criminal actions are just evil or have low empathy due to psychopathy. Which is why child abusers/ and SA offenders & serial killers cant be "rehabilitated" they have high levels of recidivism. Stop the cope and hold people reasonable for their behavior.
@@stargazing_gazer2847And the award for this comment section's dumbass award goes to this person! Congratulations! Nobody was excusing him, they were simply saying it gives context as to why Gortash went from some nobody with no real history being a terrible person prior to being sold off to almost becoming a usurping ruler sided with a bunch of wackos trying to control a netherbrain and forcefully mind control everyone. Also this "the fact is most people who do criminal actions are just evil or have low empathy due to psychopathy" Lumping in someone who has to steal food to survive with abusers, killers, and SA offenders is kinda wild. Might want to recheck your self proclaimed "Fact" on apparently every criminal action.
@@stargazing_gazer2847 Genuinely don't even know where to begin with how wrong you are. Making the case that some people are just born evil, and that no one is a product of their circumstances is absolutely wild.
@@stargazing_gazer2847 crime and abuse exists in a much larger context than simply being born one way or another, what a stupid, simplistic mindset you have.
The only difference between this conversation before Gortash is dead and after he's dead is the mention of being in mourning. Otherwise, it's the same.
Sounds like Gortash was probably a mostly normal kid, and his parents had a kid when they weren't prepared to (either out of feeling obligated or just as an accident). When parenthood turned out to be harder than expected they grew to resent their son. They're terrible parents, but once Gortash became an adult he chose to repeat the cycle of shit.
I don't think that's necessarily the case. Could be a few factors, she could be telling the truth and he was a bad seed to start with, or she could be justifying selling her son to save "Their own and his" life ex-post facto by twisting her memories of him to be miserable after the fact. Or maybe the parents were evil to start with whether or not he was good or evil himself. Or maybe you're right. Many many possibilities, none of them very pleasant.
@@DIEGhostfish I'd believe that Gortash was a bad kid from the start because unfortunately that can happen, but the only examples they cite are basic behavioral issues like "demands" and "constant whining." It sounds like they really were just terrible parents.
@@lilhogfella I used to work with kids before my immune system took a nosedive; I remember listening to that dialog and thinking "you are describing a normal 9 year old"
@@StephenMcGann The mother claims that young Gortash was already a monster, well on the path to evil, though she does not elaborate on what exactly made her form that opinion. Her claim may not be true (she could be lying her ass off for all I know, or exaggerating normal youthful misconduct into something more serious/sinister), but in D&D lore there are many cases of what are basically "bad seeds", characters who were always Evil from the start. Personally, I don't know who to believe. I think Gortash probably always had inclinations towards Evil, but his experiences as a child pushed him well over the edge and turned him into a villain.
I think the Flynns, Gortash, and Karlach are part of a cycle of abuse theme. His parents are awful, but at one point in his life he became responsible for his actions and never changes, Karlach did decide a different path (or at least can) but is also influenced by her lot in life. That’s her freak out when he dies, and her avoidance of the reality of her death in act 2.
Are you supposed to feel bad for Caszador? More like nah. Like the next person said, it's more of a "look at this cycle of abuse, passed from one generation to another, look at them and don't be like those people, stop the cycle" like it's sad that this happend to them but it doesn't erase and/or excuse their evil deeds. Well, what Karlach said basically
@@ladynymue I’m a bit rusty with bg3 lore, but I think that the warlock was acting on Raphael’s behalf, which makes Raphael Gortash’s adoptive father. However I’m not sure because I haven’t played the game in a while so feel free to search it up cause I might be wrong.
I love how empathetic Karlach is, even to someone as horrible as Gortash. Kinda the opposite of Astarion who is so full of hate, Karlach is so full of love even after everything she has been through.
To be fair, Karlach was in hell I think for a decade(10 years), while Astarion was enslaved by Cazador for either 100 or 200 years(what happened to Karlach was still very bad, I’m not discounting that. Just that 100 years probably would have made her more crazy honestly. I love Karlach so much 🫶)
@@katiebayliss9887 yeah I know, but it’s also partly just their personalities. Astarion was always power hungry and only looking out for himself, even when he was still just his mortal elf self. Karlach has always been caring and looking out for others, that’s how she got the job with Gortash to begin with.
but to an elf or an immortal, living 700+ years, surely 100 years is around 10 years for someone who only lives around 70-90 years like karlach? either way...trauma does different things to different people
Its interesting how Orin seems to be the only actual monster amongst the 3, Thorm and Gortash have a bad hand dealt but fell into the dark abyss that it created while still having some semblance of regret and empathy for what they did.
Orin was the product of incest between Sarevok and his own daughter. She was raised inside a cult of murder and depravity. And yet, everything she did was to gain the approval from her dad and her god. Neither of whom truly gave a damn about the poor Baalspawn. Not sad enough? If your MC reveals the truth to Orin, she will have a breakdown just by questioning her role for first time ever. Yet in that moment Baal will turn Red into Slayer, denying her only moment of self-determination.
@@inanimatesum4945 That's not even all of it either. She didn't just break over incest. She killed her mother as a child in self defense and was told her mother attempted to attack her out of jealousy when in reality she was ordered to by sarevok as an offering for bhaal in a bid to make her chosen. Sarevok has a journal where he says he only fathered orin with the sole intention sacrificing her as a grand offering. The only reason she has lived this long is because bhaal marked his territory by possessing her after she killed her mother saying he has plans for her. Said plans also being to sacrifice her.
I dunno, I feel sorry for everyone here and for no one at the same time. Because selling your child to a warlock, and having no regrets, just because he was a fussy annoying kid... But trapping a person inside their own mind, walking around but not allowed to say anything, or seemingly just erase the other's personality out of existence, leaving a puppet in place... Both is terrible. But what's also sad, is that while controlled, Gortash's parents speak of him with love, say he was raised within these walls... It makes it feel like that's what Gortash wanted from them and never got, so he at least made them say it for the illusion, and that's just sad, even if he's terrible. I wonder what the fake parents would say if Gortash came to visit. The image of them being loving and welcoming him happily, Gortash happy on the surface, trying to ignore his mind reminding him it's just empty words he's implanted into their mouths himself... That just sounds tragic.
@@elenalizabeth Yes. You even see they glow green, meaning they have something to say. Karlach can't talk to them cause she's the one who killed them, but when the player selected Astarion you could even see the option right there.
@@Mithcoriel u mean /Karlach's face/ can't talk to them (*pulls out a seeming scroll*) edit: (oh god... my text formatting didn't go through. guess I'm resorting to old school markup formatting)
Well, they sound horrible. They created a horrible child that they resented taking care of. Then sold him to a warlock. I have no sympathy. Doesnt Gortash had to go and do ALL THAT but they gets no sympathy from me.
... crafty bastard. He essentially forced the same choice on them that they did on him. Keep living through hell, hoping that someone or something will come along to free you... or die. They may not have had GOOD options, but it wasn't the binary choice that the mother presents it as.
I kinda wish we'd seen his dad's original personality. It seems harder to write a resentful father than a mother for some reason. I feel like it could focus more on the "It was for his own good, look how far he rose because of it!"
You can then talk to the jailer in the house of hope, and he will tell you that he used to beat little Gortash's mouth when he was in charge and he liked to make him cry. If you look closely at Gortash's face his face and neck have scars and his neck has a chain pattern
Gortash was sold to a Warlock who was working on Raphael's behalf. Gortash was imprisoned in the House of Hope by Raphael, his own parents grew to hatefully resent their own child, it's not wonder he turned out the way he did. It's a shame.
No point killing them the nether brain will do that lol everyone with a tadpole gets turned and killed by the end, what I think its a little dumb if no brain is controlling a mind flayer they still have their personality but very very muted ppl just killing them all in that last cutscene was like?? Sure the ones that still kept fighting deserve it others just trying to run not harming anyone are just victims
@DIEGhostfish no they're mind flayers most who you were is gone cause mind flayers barely have emotions but it is still you, mind flayers are evil and soulless yes, but in dnd evil is very black and white being an evil creature doesn't mean you're hostile against everyone just because, its not disney evil lol and sousless just means when you die you won't go to any of the afterlives and no god will give 2 shits about you + if you get to X range to any elder brain they will control you and merge your consciousness with the hive mind, as long as you can control your hunger you're just like a vampire but less emotional and more logical, tbh vampires are more dead than mind flayers they're actually considered undead lol while mind flayers are not
Thank you for watching the video. If you want to see more you can subscribe and like the video.
My other channels:
Skyrim & Fallout channel: www.youtube.com/@FerzenTES
RPG games: www.youtube.com/@FerzenRPG
Total War: www.youtube.com/@FerzenTotalWar
RDR2: www.youtube.com/@FerzenRockstar
I didn't even realize that Gortash's parents were in the game.
Yes and they’re two free tadpoles! :)
they abused him and sold him to raphael to my understanding. Another example of the cycle of abuse continuing, considering Gortash did the same to Karlach.
Same bro I'm more than 800 hour and this is the first time I heard about it.
Act 3 is a beast. In most games, Act 1 is the largest. In Baldur's Gate 3...Act 3 feels like 4x the size of Act 1 and 2 combined.
I have played 3 runs and never found these people, unreal
Sounds like Gortash was a totally normal child and selling him to this warlock is what made him the way he was, but even when he was more evil after that he was the most reasonable of the three by far. Parents deserve their fate tbh LOL
my thought exactly, they never cared about him and hated him since the day he was born. he's a nice dude, i wish there was a way to be TRUE allies
He’s not a nice dude now lol! Remember the part of him selling karlach, the woman who admired him, to the hells?
@@Xxsorafan well he's nice to my durge and for a villain run, that could be cool
If you do some digging, and reading in The House of Hope, you find that the "Warlock" that they sold him to, was Raphael in disguise. He wasn't sold to a Warlock. He was sold to a devil.
@@Ultima228 which is ironic cause he end up selling karlach to zariel. the guy who was sold to a devil end up selling someone to a devil.
"Yo we killed yo boi"
Its acually kind of sad when you think about the fact Gortash made them say all the things about mouring him and being proud, like he was creating the family he always wanted. Especially the bit about being his fathers apprentice, like he was trying to convince himself amf everyone that was what really happened.... Im gonna go cry now
Hurt people hurt people. It doesnt absolve Gortash of what he did, but it puts it into context.
Its also why some evil path players wished the Gortash alliance didnt have Gortash taken out so early. He could have been an interesting final ally in the final battle (Imagine - Baneite support as an alternative to Ironhand)
@@timetochronicle this is just not true at all- the game is drunk on the Freudian excuse. The fact is most people who do criminal actions are just evil or have low empathy due to psychopathy. Which is why child abusers/ and SA offenders & serial killers cant be "rehabilitated" they have high levels of recidivism. Stop the cope and hold people reasonable for their behavior.
@@stargazing_gazer2847And the award for this comment section's dumbass award goes to this person! Congratulations!
Nobody was excusing him, they were simply saying it gives context as to why Gortash went from some nobody with no real history being a terrible person prior to being sold off to almost becoming a usurping ruler sided with a bunch of wackos trying to control a netherbrain and forcefully mind control everyone.
Also this "the fact is most people who do criminal actions are just evil or have low empathy due to psychopathy"
Lumping in someone who has to steal food to survive with abusers, killers, and SA offenders is kinda wild. Might want to recheck your self proclaimed "Fact" on apparently every criminal action.
@@stargazing_gazer2847 Genuinely don't even know where to begin with how wrong you are. Making the case that some people are just born evil, and that no one is a product of their circumstances is absolutely wild.
@@stargazing_gazer2847 crime and abuse exists in a much larger context than simply being born one way or another, what a stupid, simplistic mindset you have.
Something depressing about how Gortash might be making them talk how he wanted them to talk about him. With approval, not shame
And there's Minsc standing there in their son's clothes. And they don't comment.
Literally nobody in the city even notices.... It sucks
i was thinking the same thing
The only difference between this conversation before Gortash is dead and after he's dead is the mention of being in mourning. Otherwise, it's the same.
Neat. That hat really brings out Astarion's elf ears.
Sounds like Gortash was probably a mostly normal kid, and his parents had a kid when they weren't prepared to (either out of feeling obligated or just as an accident). When parenthood turned out to be harder than expected they grew to resent their son. They're terrible parents, but once Gortash became an adult he chose to repeat the cycle of shit.
I don't think that's necessarily the case. Could be a few factors, she could be telling the truth and he was a bad seed to start with, or she could be justifying selling her son to save "Their own and his" life ex-post facto by twisting her memories of him to be miserable after the fact. Or maybe the parents were evil to start with whether or not he was good or evil himself. Or maybe you're right. Many many possibilities, none of them very pleasant.
@@DIEGhostfish I'd believe that Gortash was a bad kid from the start because unfortunately that can happen, but the only examples they cite are basic behavioral issues like "demands" and "constant whining." It sounds like they really were just terrible parents.
@@lilhogfella Indeed, that does seem the most likely, though they did mention something about little cruelties.
Even if gortash is a bad kid, selling him for a few coins is a special kind of evil
@@lilhogfella I used to work with kids before my immune system took a nosedive; I remember listening to that dialog and thinking "you are describing a normal 9 year old"
…am I supposed to feel bad for Gortash or his parents?
For none.
You're supposed to feel bad for a young gortash
@@StephenMcGann The mother claims that young Gortash was already a monster, well on the path to evil, though she does not elaborate on what exactly made her form that opinion. Her claim may not be true (she could be lying her ass off for all I know, or exaggerating normal youthful misconduct into something more serious/sinister), but in D&D lore there are many cases of what are basically "bad seeds", characters who were always Evil from the start.
Personally, I don't know who to believe. I think Gortash probably always had inclinations towards Evil, but his experiences as a child pushed him well over the edge and turned him into a villain.
I think the Flynns, Gortash, and Karlach are part of a cycle of abuse theme. His parents are awful, but at one point in his life he became responsible for his actions and never changes, Karlach did decide a different path (or at least can) but is also influenced by her lot in life. That’s her freak out when he dies, and her avoidance of the reality of her death in act 2.
Are you supposed to feel bad for Caszador? More like nah. Like the next person said, it's more of a "look at this cycle of abuse, passed from one generation to another, look at them and don't be like those people, stop the cycle" like it's sad that this happend to them but it doesn't erase and/or excuse their evil deeds. Well, what Karlach said basically
7:15 Karlach just singing in front of Gortash mind controlled parents is very on point
*tap dances in place*
Did they sell him to Raphael?
Yeah
@@exterminatusbutton8723 didn't they say they sold him to a warlock? What did I miss that states Raphael bought him?
@@ladynymue I’m a bit rusty with bg3 lore, but I think that the warlock was acting on Raphael’s behalf, which makes Raphael Gortash’s adoptive father. However I’m not sure because I haven’t played the game in a while so feel free to search it up cause I might be wrong.
@@ladynymueNubaldin, when he was the one in charge of the prison at the House of Hope he let Gortash escape.
@@exterminatusbutton8723 Yep! In the House of Hope, you can read notes where there are information about Gortash as a child, enslaved by Raphael
I love how empathetic Karlach is, even to someone as horrible as Gortash. Kinda the opposite of Astarion who is so full of hate, Karlach is so full of love even after everything she has been through.
To be fair, Karlach was in hell I think for a decade(10 years), while Astarion was enslaved by Cazador for either 100 or 200 years(what happened to Karlach was still very bad, I’m not discounting that. Just that 100 years probably would have made her more crazy honestly. I love Karlach so much 🫶)
@@katiebayliss9887 yeah I know, but it’s also partly just their personalities. Astarion was always power hungry and only looking out for himself, even when he was still just his mortal elf self. Karlach has always been caring and looking out for others, that’s how she got the job with Gortash to begin with.
@@katiebayliss9887. That doesn't change the fact that Karlach is more resilient. I'm very sure Astarion was nasty from the beginning.
It is a credit to Karlach's character plus I think its a bit different to suffer 10 years vs suffering a century or two like Astarion or Aylin did.
but to an elf or an immortal, living 700+ years, surely 100 years is around 10 years for someone who only lives around 70-90 years like karlach? either way...trauma does different things to different people
Nice, more tadpoles to collect!... I mean, oh no, poor people :(
I wouldn’t say they are that poor tho 😂
The banality of Evil is presented so well in this game
The first time I heard them I thought they were jerks. This time they don't seem as bad as the first one though.
Well...they did sell him off to a devil.
@@jackripley3906 Yeah they did.
They did sell him off to the devil
They did sell him to a devil
Its interesting how Orin seems to be the only actual monster amongst the 3, Thorm and Gortash have a bad hand dealt but fell into the dark abyss that it created while still having some semblance of regret and empathy for what they did.
Orin was the product of incest between Sarevok and his own daughter. She was raised inside a cult of murder and depravity.
And yet, everything she did was to gain the approval from her dad and her god. Neither of whom truly gave a damn about the poor Baalspawn.
Not sad enough? If your MC reveals the truth to Orin, she will have a breakdown just by questioning her role for first time ever. Yet in that moment Baal will turn Red into Slayer, denying her only moment of self-determination.
@@raistlin3462 holy crap, that Bha’al family staircase of psychos? So the only irredeemable evil is the Elder Brain in this game
@@inanimatesum4945 That's not even all of it either. She didn't just break over incest. She killed her mother as a child in self defense and was told her mother attempted to attack her out of jealousy when in reality she was ordered to by sarevok as an offering for bhaal in a bid to make her chosen. Sarevok has a journal where he says he only fathered orin with the sole intention sacrificing her as a grand offering. The only reason she has lived this long is because bhaal marked his territory by possessing her after she killed her mother saying he has plans for her. Said plans also being to sacrifice her.
@@xdervin6114the hell does Bhaal do with all these sacrifices damn
I dunno, I feel sorry for everyone here and for no one at the same time. Because selling your child to a warlock, and having no regrets, just because he was a fussy annoying kid... But trapping a person inside their own mind, walking around but not allowed to say anything, or seemingly just erase the other's personality out of existence, leaving a puppet in place... Both is terrible. But what's also sad, is that while controlled, Gortash's parents speak of him with love, say he was raised within these walls... It makes it feel like that's what Gortash wanted from them and never got, so he at least made them say it for the illusion, and that's just sad, even if he's terrible.
I wonder what the fake parents would say if Gortash came to visit. The image of them being loving and welcoming him happily, Gortash happy on the surface, trying to ignore his mind reminding him it's just empty words he's implanted into their mouths himself... That just sounds tragic.
I swear the father is the same face model/bone structure as Withers. Maybe also the same voice actor Stephen Boxer
I thought the title was clickbait, but lo and behold you can find his parents! How thoughtful of Larian
Being sold by his parents to a devil. No wonder he winded up the way he did.
You should talk with them after theirs death.
Like use “speak with dead” on them?
@@elenalizabeth Yes. You even see they glow green, meaning they have something to say. Karlach can't talk to them cause she's the one who killed them, but when the player selected Astarion you could even see the option right there.
@@Mithcoriel u mean /Karlach's face/ can't talk to them (*pulls out a seeming scroll*)
edit: (oh god... my text formatting didn't go through. guess I'm resorting to old school markup formatting)
Oh so his Parents SUCK just as bad, selling your Son to a Warlock, just wow.
the warlock was actually raphael in disguise too ...
Well, they sound horrible. They created a horrible child that they resented taking care of. Then sold him to a warlock. I have no sympathy. Doesnt Gortash had to go and do ALL THAT but they gets no sympathy from me.
... crafty bastard.
He essentially forced the same choice on them that they did on him.
Keep living through hell, hoping that someone or something will come along to free you... or die.
They may not have had GOOD options, but it wasn't the binary choice that the mother presents it as.
dang, he Get Out-ed them.
ooooo i wonder if you get more information if you disguise yourself and use speak with dead
I kinda wish we'd seen his dad's original personality. It seems harder to write a resentful father than a mother for some reason. I feel like it could focus more on the "It was for his own good, look how far he rose because of it!"
There is a video "speak to dead with Gortash parents" and there you can get a bit of an idea of what Gortashs dad actually thought about him.
"World-ending debts" Ya got that right
Didn't knew that
welp another one to do list when i start my dark urge playtrough
I assume theres no way at all to help these 2 aside from assuming they're freed after you defeat the final boss, eh?
Two free tadpoles. I always end their suffering.
They are in hell or will end up in hell anyway... If they do not end in the Abyss too, of course...
Dark urge writing in the book :)
I wanted their worms too.
99% sure if Homelander had these worms he'd do this to everyone in his life.
I just realized that Gortash is Iruma if he would turn evil from Welcome to Demon school Iruma-kun.
HE HAS PARENTS???
He had parents
You can then talk to the jailer in the house of hope, and he will tell you that he used to beat little Gortash's mouth when he was in charge and he liked to make him cry. If you look closely at Gortash's face his face and neck have scars and his neck has a chain pattern
I kill them for their tadpoles in every playthrough and I don't feel bad for it lol
Astarion’s hat.....
It's a plus 2 charisma hat.
oops i ended them before i could get the chance lol
Thanks for the clip! That was cool and normal /jk
This is really interesting! I love Larian's attention to detail. Anyway, why does Astarion have Sauron following him? D:
That summon looks sick! What is it?
Fire Myrmidon
@@Ferzen thank you!
killed them both in my playthrough, worth it
Can you knock them unconcious and renove their tadpoles?
So like 90% the same as if you meet them before he’s dead. 😂
Good way to farm two extra worms!
Gortash was sold to a Warlock who was working on Raphael's behalf. Gortash was imprisoned in the House of Hope by Raphael, his own parents grew to hatefully resent their own child, it's not wonder he turned out the way he did. It's a shame.
"come again soon!"
I wont :)
kilgrave's parents
No point killing them the nether brain will do that lol everyone with a tadpole gets turned and killed by the end, what I think its a little dumb if no brain is controlling a mind flayer they still have their personality but very very muted ppl just killing them all in that last cutscene was like?? Sure the ones that still kept fighting deserve it others just trying to run not harming anyone are just victims
Once they turn, they're dead
@DIEGhostfish no they're mind flayers most who you were is gone cause mind flayers barely have emotions but it is still you, mind flayers are evil and soulless yes, but in dnd evil is very black and white being an evil creature doesn't mean you're hostile against everyone just because, its not disney evil lol and sousless just means when you die you won't go to any of the afterlives and no god will give 2 shits about you + if you get to X range to any elder brain they will control you and merge your consciousness with the hive mind, as long as you can control your hunger you're just like a vampire but less emotional and more logical, tbh vampires are more dead than mind flayers they're actually considered undead lol while mind flayers are not
this sentence was so difficult to read bro
I enjoyed ending them
Where i can obtain that karlach armor
As I remember you can buy it in Rivington's armory shop from female Dragonborn merchant
It's a shame they changed the default color of this armor. It looked perfect on Karlach.
Oh, nice.
What armor is that on Astarion?
Armour of Agility. You can buy it near Sorcerous Sundries.
@@Ferzen omg thank you so much!
Ow, just did it last night. At that point figured they were suffering enough already and went for the tadpole harvest
Don't worry... Souls rotten like those end up in the Nine Hells... Or the Abyss... Not like it would make much of a difference
Thank you for the spoiler.. wtf.
Whats the spoiler lmao
bro why even click on here LMAO
Spoiler? I've done 3 runs and haven't seen them. So glad I saw this
you're the one who clicked on it, almost a year after the game came out