That is why ascended Astarion is a truly evil ending. Because all of his character growth is undone in an instant and he is the worst version of himself.
Nah, perhaps a little out of character. Astarion seeks power to be free. It can potentially also corrupt but I for one agreed with and indulged him every time. He wanted to have the tadpoles, he got them, wanted the book.. I gave it to him. I personally hate the trope of remaining mortal/weak is good while embracing power is evil, so ascending him was a no-brainer cause it came with no strings attached at.
It's the worst outcome because you kill all those people for the sake of power so cool you can live with that. So you'll sacrifice the many for the one. It's the other way around my guy.@@kayleemichelson4019
The tadpoles are suppressing powers, Gale and Wyll mentioned it in the beginning of the game. Bc Gale is the arch-wizard and god’s chosen (20 lvl in DnD), and Wyll is famous hero who was haunting devils in the Hells. Durge also has less powers, before they were the leader of the cult and assassin who stole from Mephistopheles. Though I don’t know what explanation for Halsin who is 5 lvl while he is archdruid (20 lvl), Jaheira and Minsc the same (probably just game restrictions)
I wish we had more assertive dialogue options with ascended Astarion. You know, putting Astarion in his place, making it clear to him that "If you cause trouble under my nose, I'll personally kill you myself." I'm curious how he'd react.
He'd attack you on the spot, that's for sure. Just try to deny him his ascension mid-ritual and see what happens. Once he gets absorbed by the power, he is not himself anymore and will do anything to retain that power.
Such a threat to the city, gets killed by a handful of npcs. Very anti-climactic after the Cazador fight 🥲 This is such a funny outcome, I love it. Like saving Aylin just to sell her to the wizard and watch Isobel die. Halsin's reaction is my favourite. He is just so confused why in the Hells you did that.
Why do their reactions make me feel like I've committed a stupid mistake by ascending him and then killing him? Hearing Shadowheart's reaction made me question my morality☹.
@@kapitainein oh feel it was pretty evil, you helped him do it and before he even got a chance to think turned on him instantly. He hadn't done or said anything worth murdering him over. The gur might be righteous evil slayers but also if you give him to them he ends up dead with Cazador anyway.
It’s for Tav/Durge who has schizophrenia of bipolar disorder 😂 Or super evil, doing good and giving hope to just snatch it away at the end. Like playing whole game as super hero, just at the end to kill Karlach mindflayer and become Absolute.
I might don't like Ascendant Astarion, but I'm crying nonetheless. Maybe because I know unascended Astarion and how happy, free, full of inner strengh, inner peace and positivity, as well as loved/respected by many (even the Gur) he is without the ascendant power. I need to watch something happy now 😭 Thanks for taking one for the team.
How can you say that he is free and happy as a spawn? 😱😱 he is AFRAID of the sun!! He feels hunger, he is ALWAYS hungry. He can be killed anytime by some monster hunter and nobody will protect him. Just...... HOW can you leave his as a spawn?! 😱😱😱
@@MaryJay1988 Other than having to actively avoid sunlight, being a spawn ain't actually all that bad. his physical abilities still eclipse that of normal untrained people, & as far as his hunger goes, it ain't all that different from regular people hunger & unless he's goddamn famished, he doesn't even need to feed as regularly as normal people.
@@MaryJay1988 i leave him a spawn because as bittersweet as his good ending is, the power of ascension is literally a devil's trap. he sacrifices seven thousand souls and loses his own in the process and became the thing he hated and feared most, that's the tragedy of it (losing his soul/changing alignment to lawful evil is not speculation btw, that's actually how DND vampires work, and astarion himself tells you this early in act 1). if i have to choose between letting my friend condemn himself to a fate worse than death because he thought an infernal blood ritual would solve all his problems, or a life in the shadows** where he still has his soul AND he can be free of his tormentor forever and forge a new path for himself? i choose the latter every time. it's barely a contest imo (also astarion isn't afraid of the sun at all?? astarion MISSES the sun. he cries when he has to leave it behind again in the spawn ending. he tells you himself he's not at all averse to looking for a cure so he can stand in the sun again.) like, it's absolutely fine if you personally prefer the ascended astarion ending, you do you! but trying to reframe it as his Good Ending, Actually is more than a little bit silly when it's very obviously supposed to be an allegory for continuing a cycle of abuse. spawn astarion is an antihero, ascended astarion is a villain, and it's all fiction anyway so just embrace the villainfucking and enjoy yourself lmao. ** - there are a number of ways to get around this limitation or even cure vampirism in-setting, and one of them even came up in a previous baldur's gate game. larian simply doesn't address astarion's vampirism in BG3 beyond the cazador because it isn't germane to the story that was being told. curing him would be a whole expac on its own, same with going to avernus to save karlach.
Anyone who's convinced that ascending Astarion is a good choice to go with, is either knowingly doing it to be evil, or have no idea just how potent the corruptive influence of absolute power is, especially on someone who's already so power-hungry to begin with. anyone who says that Astarion can't possibly be happy if he doesn't go on with ascension is also downright delusional & in denial, seeing how he acts when he talks with PC later. on the contrary, Astarion DEFINITELY wouldn't be happy if he actually ascended. sure, he's elated in the moment, but having someone so power-hungry to begin with wield such absolute power would only make their hunger for power way way WORSE, as in utterly unsatiable, as he would ALWAYS crave more even if he has grown to wield more power than anyone alive. NO ONE can be happy being a slave to such uncontrollable cravings all the time. his physical vampiric hunger, which actually has a limit & very much controllable, would just get replaced by something that NO ONE, not even Astarion himself, can keep in check. & to make matters worse, ascending Astarion simply dooms everyone around him. while he wouldn't grow to become a threat that would inconvenience the gods unless he, by some other possibly profane, insidious means, achieves godhood, his threat to every mortal being out there would still be comparable to that of the Absolute, if not worse.
yeah it's poor reading comprehension imo lol, the story path choices are abundantly clear which one is the dark ending. it's no different really from making choices that end with shadowheart becoming a dark justiciar, most of the companions have the potential to be the worst versions of themselves but the amount of copium i see coming from the people claiming that ascension is his good ending is just absolutely wild lmao
Ascending him is perpetuating a centuries old circle of abuse, yes. And yes, maybe he's not immediately becoming Cazador 2.0 after the ritual, but it's kind of inevitable that in time he will. People will just want to hunt him down again like the Gur wanted Cazador down. And his delusions of grandeur will just grow deeper, he's probably barely half as powerful as he thinks Ascension made him. And you'd think that him taking over the Szarr Palace when Ascended, as opposed to Unascended when he burns it all down would be symbolic but obvious enough for everyone to understand as well With that said, I see nothing wrong with people wanting to RP as evil characters, or trigger bad endings for fictional characters, or simply just wanting to explore all the routes a choice based game has to offer... I only think it's kind of iffy when people kid themselves about what this route actually means for his character. Some want to have their cake and eat it too as well. That would just be bad storytelling on the part of Larian imo, having this big of a win with no consequence whatsoever... Lukily enough that's not the case lol. Personally I think both sides of Astarion are written wonderfully, just for different reasons
@@ladyhrist Yeah from what I know, out of the Origin companions, only Wyll has two possible endings (excluding the worst outcome where Mizora's gone so he's doomed to be a Lemure in hell) where he'll be alright either way. He can and will do good for the world whether he's Grand Duke or Blade of Avernus. And even though being a doomslayer in Avernus is dangerous, he's clearly happy with Karlach as well. So that's still a good ending, for both of them God Gale is debated a lot as well tbf, but I'd say it's a pretty obvious bad ending for him. He's just gonna become more and more consumed by his ambitions. Also Tara doesn't respect him anymore, that should speak volumes lol
I did because he sees his reflection that’s it or I thought he’d die by the sun in the good ending so yeah but he’ll be fine if not immortal until the stars burst as said in game
When I first played the game he dumped me in act 3 saying he was only using me but I ascended him anyway, in my second gameplay I ascended him again but my Tav and Astarion were in a relationship and I thought I was doing a good thing because this was what he wanted, but the second he ascended I questioned my beliefs bcs he scared the shit out of me and absolutely made me distance with the character... It really is scary but in my second gameplay I was being a bit evil so that's ok I guess lol
@@benjammin5252don't compare them. They all have different stories ☝if Shadowheart will kill the Nightsong, she kills many more LIVING people in the "Last Light" tavern. And by ascending, Astarion kills ALREADY DEAD and HUNGRY monsters. Nobody will look out for them. So, killing them is THE BEST you can do.
@@MaryJay1988 I believe Astarion’s siblings end up looking after them (excluding the Gur children, who go back with their parents) if you choose not to kill them.
You’re not killing them, you’re sending their souls into eternal damnation. It’s cleaner to talk Astarion out of ascension and then just kill them without triggering the ritual. Easy mode is killing one of his „siblings“ during the fight, so the ritual isn’t even an option.
@@MaryJay1988 Ok but do you consider Astarion to be alive? The logic you are using is fine if you don't, but if you do then you must accept that the other spawn are all alive as well.
"There is no greater or lesser" uh...excuse me? You think The Emperor holds the same weight as Orin? Or Astarion is as great a threat as the big brain? I scoff at your foolish Gur naivety.
Same here. Sometimes I think of how many innocents that were 'cancelled' on the Grove by my hands but still managed to emerge as a hero in the Epilogue. Sometimes we make these choices in the name of 'science'.
She tried for the old Geralt of Rivia and failed. Because Geralt is talking about human monsters being the same as inhuman ones. She is generalizing threat level.
Oh wow, the echoes in this scene! I find it hilarious that the Gur leader is telling you she hopes you'll choose a better path than Astarion, while you're all veiny and clearly tadpoled up to the max LOL.
Lmao... Not to forget The Gur leader stole the lines from Geralt of Rivia - Evil is evil. There's no bigger, midling and so on. The Gurs are the witchers of DnD.
I just finished his quest last night. I knew ascending him was monstrous, but gods! That ending! Who even is he? I'm so glad I was able to talk sense into him.
Cannot revive him but you can cast 'speak with dead' on him. You can ask him 4 questions. 4'th being important in here: What did you plan to do after ascending? Astarion: Planned to rule over Baldur's Gate. Finally be free.
Astarion is a well-written character, so well-written that if you look at him from a realistic and objective point of view you realize several things. Astarion is a giant red flag in every way and it has nothing to do with what happened to him. He was already like this before he was transformed into a vampire, that only made it worse. But if you take it on the right path it changes a little for the better. Ascended Astarion only makes it worse than it already was. Because if you look, Karlach also went through horrible things and did horrible things to survive, but once she got out of his tormentor's control. She acts like she always was, a good person. That's why I don't feel sorry for Astarion, because not only is he not sorry for what he did, but I feel like he really enjoyed it. He only hated the part where Cazador tortured him and he couldn't decide for himself. Yes, what happened to him was horrible, but that doesn't justify the rest. He himself says that he was manipulating you from the beginning and if you read his thoughts after ascending he literally only sees you as his pet or his toy, that like to be humiliated and used.
Finally someone Sees it. He Always gets Defended but in the end wether He was Like this before He became a Vampire or after, His torture does Not excuse anything. Karlach is a good example, she could be completly bitter and hateful (which honestly would be a great bait and Switch If she really was evil and Just tricked us) but she is Not. Right until you persuade Astarion that He should Not ascend He is selfish. Yes He mentions that He feels pity for the other Spawn but after He learns about the Ritual He is completly fine with betraying Them.
He tried. he once refused to kidnap a man. Cazador put him in a coffin for this. alive, for a whole year. ALONE. he was tortured for 200 years. How long was Karlach in hell? You really can't blame him for thinking mostly about himself. but if you give him the chance he also cares about others.
@@kochfeemiri663 No. He does Not try until you fix the Ritual and even after that its... Not much. He dislikes every time you do Something for someone Else and only by your doing He does some good. The time spent does Not Care for His deeds. He was never a good Person from the start and only became worse. And He uses His Trauma to instill sympathy. The best Path for him is Not learning about the Ritual from Raphael until you want to kill cazador. That way He never thinks Long Time about betraying/sacrifizing the other spawns. So He only is tempted a short Moment which can be avoided/persuaded by your Character and He gets His Revenge. But after that He still needs your Character as s Moral compass.
I dont judge Astarion for being selfish, but I do judge him for being evil. For 200 years he didn't have his basic needs met on top of SA. I'm not surprised he emerged from situation of only looking out for himself when nobody ever looked out for him before.
I somewhat disagree. In Act 1 I do agree he is against helping people, but by Act 2 &3 he mellow out on his disapprovals and even has moments where he approves and/or advocate to help people, like Yenna, Volo, and Vanra Source: m.ruclips.net/video/pvahL6SrhLw/видео.html&pp=ygUNQXN0YXJpb24gdm9sbw%3D%3D m.ruclips.net/video/x2fWdHAbskA/видео.html&pp=ygUOYXN0YXJpb24geWVubmE%3D m.ruclips.net/video/gCUyFWp9VRQ/видео.html&pp=ygUOYXN0YXJpb24gdmFucmE%3D
i would never let astarion ascend but im on an all evil durge run so im planning to ascend astarion him either way LMFAO. but i agree to not letting him ascend story wise. but man the scenes on ascended astarion is just SPICY,
Still wish there was a third option to just have him and his siblings drink Cazador dry and all become true vampires instead of spawn. Power itself isn't evil, you can make an argument for why it is justifiable, but that doesn't make it good. Throwing away all chances to become **more** is still very odd to me. Especially seeing as a lot of people want him to Ascend so that *they* "ascend" with him as his spawn. Him being a regular vampire would be a middle ground. And before anyone tries it: yes, releasing thousands of spawn is a terrible idea. Saying "on the city" isn't true, you release them into the Underdark where I'd wager more than half are going to die. Some will eventually find their way up and out. It's Baldur's Gate, though. The city is always 3 rests away from another evil doer popping up, and just as well it also says a lot that your first thought is to kill a ton of people because of a "what if" situation. Especially people that were lured and essentially trafficked. Due to game restraints there wasn't going to be a very good answer to that many people as you can't ask them individually what they want; but it also really should never be up to one person if they all die for being the abused. I personally think him not Ascending and freeing the spawn complete his arc is ending what Cazador inflicted and essentially foisted upon him and his "siblings" as it ties off that story neatly. I simply wish there was an in between to get the vampire-fantasy, especially since game-play wise it wasn't ground shattering changes and for how late in the game it is it's even more odd. Time restraints I suppose.
I wonder if the party reacts if Astarion dies during Cazador's ritual. I never do this route, I had this happen only once and I reloaded immediately. All I remember is a quest log note - he's dead, no time for the funeral, lol
He died during my fight. Withers could only bring back his corpse to camp. I thought it was because I chose whatever option where all the vampire sacrifices die instead of releasing them, before trying to revive him, and he counted in that. When I saved Baldur's Gate, he showed up on the pier alive and well.
I never thought I'd say this, but after watching this vid, I've come to the inevitable conclusion that killing Ascended Astarion generates the best possible outcome. By ascending, he kills all the spawns that would otherwise doom Baldur's Gate, the Underdark and who knows where else. Ascended, he becomes a threat to the entire world. Either way, he becomes a problem. Fans won't kill him because he's eye candy and has a sexy voice. Plus, "poor elf boy" storyline. So it's hard to expect people to look at his storyline objectively. The only other "happy ending" is if he doesn't ascend, but doesn't let the spawn live either. Still, the price is for him to spend his eternal life as a slave to the vampire hunger, never seeing sunlight ever again. That's to say, another imperfect ending, but still the second best outcome for his character.
Astarion happiest ending is probably his spawn ending. In the epilogue he's cheerful and friendly towards the player, and accepts staying the shadows saying they're apart of who he is. You can easily still kill the spawn. Both Astarion and the Gur will agree to see it as mercy
You're right though there's things in dnd lore you can do to let him see the sun again as a spawn, hell even in game there's a potion of radiant resistance.
@@MaryJay1988 You have VERY poor insight if you can call that telling lies. hell, maybe you're just projecting cuz what happened doesn't align with your beliefs.
Remember, Origin Ascended Astarion can be whatever you want. That's my headcanon and I will always allow him to ascend there to become an antihero, free from the corruption that comes from gaining so much power.
Ascending Astarion is just like you killing everyone at Last Light to become the Slayer. Yes that's evil. In fact it's the same thing. The sacrifice of innocents to gain power. That's definitely evil. He sort of justifies it as survival in the form of losing his vampiric hunger and permanent ability to walk in the sun. But those are just excuses since he knew the cost of the ritual... On the other hand setting 7000 vampire spawn free to roam Faerûn is also horrible.
Vampire spawn are not innocents...they just cannot be. We can argue for their personhood all day and should, but its a false dichotomy because no one at the Inn needs to actively hunt other people for survival. And yes, even animals is a problem, because while they can survive on animal blood, they'll always be drawn to humanoids. It is a thing they can't help. Even Astarion himself who has lived for 200 years isn't free of the temptation, he was just ordered not to and couldn't disobey. And those spawn aren't going anywhere. They're functionally immortal and will keep killing for generations unless stopped. The ritual and then killing Astarion is effectively the moral choice if we're being honest, but the game refused to make that argument because letting the spawn live is the defaulted "good" choice in their mind and it would be more complex to muddy those waters.
Here is some thoughts about the debate between the "Astarion was traumatised" team and the "trauma is a excuse, he is a bad person" team. First, psychology studies, developmental psychology in particuliar, show us that yes, the more you destroy someone, the more they they're at risk to become toxic, manipulative or violent. For example, children raised by really bad parents (strongly inconsistent, manipulative or abusive) tend to become manipulative around the age of 6. The possibility of understanding the world you live, to find some meaning and possibility to choose, is a deep human need. So if it's lacking too much, you are at high risk to develop manipulative behaviors, to regain predictability and liberty. It's a survival move, not the sign you're inherently bad. You can see that sort of development at any age. The mind tries to find a way to survive, when the world around you is very fucked up it uses what it can and it's not that easy to get rid of that. Unconscious influences are at work in every people, way more that they believe. It's not that easy to change. As in every situation, people react diffently to suffering. Yes you can always find someone who succeded to be a good person after violence. But is it fair to say to the others that they choose to become bad ? It's the same as accusing the poors for being lazy become a slight portion of them succeed to gain a comfortable situation. Or ill people who died for being weak because some survive. Astarion is written very realistically in regards of human psychology. Whatever personnality he had before turning into a vampire, 200 years of heavy torture should have change him into what we see in game. It's the most expective outcome by far. Just blamind his behaviors is blaming him for being tortured. At the other hand... you don't have to save him. Acknowledging someone has turned manipulative because of suffering doesn't imply that you have the duty to accept everything and save him. In fact, you have a very poor chance to succeed if you're alone in this work. The character development of the traumatised boy who become good because of you is a common dream, but almost never happen in real life, not that way. Tortured people are not doomed of course, but sadly they can't be saved so easily. The ones who change have learned to be aware of what they do and think about it. I really like Astarion, but if he was a real person, I would never let me having any sentimental thought for him. Because he's not safe at all. He needs friends to slowly help him to progress in a new way of thinking, rejecting him without trying to undersand is not fair. But suffering by his hands for the hope that he'll become nice is not fair eather. And the most people have that sort of trauma, the most they have bad attachment behaviors, so being their lover are not the best for him to heal. It's a game, so having a romantic or sexual relationship with him costs nothing. It's a dream, you can play it the way you like it. I just wanted to bring some psychology into the debate, because I thought it lacks it. Hope you enjoyed reading this and I didn't make to many English mistakes. Be empathetic to people who has suffered and don't abandon you in a saving quest, both are the two sides of the same coin. :)
I agree with everything you said. I grew up in a bad situation and was diagnosed with cPTSD (complex PTSD). When I was younger, I lashed out at people or tried to control every situation I was in as a way to protect myself. It took YEARS of therapy and people being patient with me and explaining my behavior to me for it to start sinking in. What caused my mental illness was not my fault... but that didn't make me innocent either. A lot of people use mental illness as an excuse to be toxic. One of the reasons why I like this story in particular is that it seems they really took a psychological look into his character... and while I do think it is unrealistic for someone to change as fast as he does in the game (if you don't ascend him), I really appreciate the comments made from redemptive durge about finding a new family and from him talking about breaking a centuries-long cycle. I also like (for lack of a better word) that they show how toxic he can be when you do ascend him... because that is very common as well.
This would be extremely funny if not for all the spawn who got sent to the hells for it. Letting Astarion live this long is a mistake, imo, better to kill him in Act One.
@@sammyisanoctopus no, when your char breaks up with him, he says he "sacrificed" lots of something even if he didn't ascend. i dunno. he's such a conceited twat.
@@sammyisanoctopus when your char breaks up with him he says he sacrificed somethin, while not ascended. is that his sacrifice? he didn't ascend, conceited тwат.
@@sammyisanoctopus as someone said i play for escapism, i don't want realistically handsome a**hоlе, i want exceptional characters in my fantasctic game.
Hey even I feel for him. Minthara was right all along. If Astarion had become a monster then a monster is what was required to defeat the greater evil.
@@kapitaineinknowing her character it’s either we were stupid to so quickly betray a powerful ally/asset when we could’ve used him against the brain or smart for handling him before he could assert his influence in the city. Either way he’s a piece on a game board to be dealt with.
@@kapitainein There's several ways to have her and Halsin in the party. The path I've chosen was to knock her out in goblin's camp then she appears as prisioner's Thorn in act 2. Just free her and you can put her and Halsin in party, without exploit or anything like that
Hmmm I am beginning to think that even before being a vampire, astarion was pretty much the worst. After what Minsc and Jaheira said, I doubt the gur would attack him without good reason. The dude bloody lied to us about the children so he was intending to manipulate us to do his bidding.
There are terrible people in every group. Also, it’s pretty heavily implied Cazador had something to do with them trying to murder Astarion in the first place. Meaning Cazador hired them to attack him. They’re not necessarily good people because someone brain dead and a Druid with questionable principles (see: abandoning her children) said so
@@Callidus7SSM He is evil from the first moment you meet him. He consistently approves when you display cruelty towards others, and dislikes acts of kindness. If you put him in a position of power he will act the same as Cazador.
@@Callidus7SSM I like how you equate Jaheira neglecting her children for saving the world to Astarion being a trash person all around. Even the concept art describes him as a "corrupt elite." before turning. The player character is the sole responsible force for steering Astarion in a somewhat better direction, unlike Shadowheart who feels terrible if you kill the tieflings and doubts Shar in act II. He is weak enough to not be able to better himself without help.
Astarion a neutral evil it makes sense he wouldn't care about the tieflings. Astarion also does nor wish to better himself. He revels in evil and will do whatever it takes to be powerful, even if it means sacrificing the innocent
I've waited the entire game to ascend Astarion, only for the quest to bug, and it being impossible to do. I don't know if the bug was fixed even since, since I'd dropped the game in the same month it was released, specifically because of this. Astarion deserves ascension, fuck anyone who says otherwise.
Astarion is my favorite companion but the resolutions to his personal quest annoys me. Nothing to do with Astarion himself, just the way the game seems to think that it is the morally superior choice to betray someone who put his complete trust in you and could not have done that terrible deed without your help. Or releasing thousands of feral vampire spawn with no master to control them out into the world. Yep definintely the better choice.
Wow, what a stupid outcome 😂 why tf would you sacrifice 7k spawn to the hells and then betray Astarion? The player character must absolutely abhor vampires. So very, very clever of them 🤪
@@esteriall3086 so first they fail to save 7 thousand spawn, then they betray their own companion. Instead of being malicious, they are just incompetent, much better 😂
Well not everyone save scummed whole goddamn game. My act 2 village was razed because priestess got 4 crits in a row to the face before i could make a turn
"What a stupid outcome" Gee, it's almost like the devs put the effort into making multiple possible outcomes for just about every scenario. By your logic they might as well have just cut almost everything about Ethel from the game. Minimal to non-existent uses to the quest rewards, and there's no way to avoid either getting people killed and/or causing them emotional pain. But isn't it more interesting to have multiple choices, and multiple chances along a quest line to change your mind? Even at the last moment? Maybe you even find out new information long after you made your choice that makes you wonder if you made the right one?
I will always ascend Astarion because nothing really changes. Make my ally stronger, destroy literally thousands of spawn, and kill some annoying monster hunters with a holier than thou attitude? Sign me up. Every time. You’re crazy if you think I’m freeing or just leaving 7,000 vampires to skulk about the city.
They actually go live in the Underdark, which is safe as can be for them. Considering the Gur also plan to follow and watch over them, even better. Meanwhile, Astarion grows into a better person without ascension. Meanwhile, he becomes a heartless monster after ascending.
@@matthewsimon6170 Ah yes let them roam the underdark after they’ve been starved and cause all sorts of problems and damage down there, fantastic idea. The gur are watching them? The same people that were hired to beat Astarion to the brink of death so Cazador could sink his teeth into him? The same people who would’ve just gave Astarion to Cazador? Yeah I trust them! Give Astarion a life of power in the sun which he had been denied 200 years, or force him back into the shadows simply to be a “better person”? Let him take the power. He deserves it. Oh no, he’s literally no different just more powerful now with huge ambitions, whatever will I do?
I am with you!! ASCENDED ASTARION ALL THE WAY! 🦇💜💜💜💜 definitely, THE BEST choice! for those who choose "spawn" route: grow up, guys. Like, really, if you would be in Astation's situation, you'd still prefer to be a spawn, FOREVER hide in the underdark?..🤦♀️
Yes to the make Astarion stronger 1D10 damage is 1D10 damage but if you're doing it for "moral" reasons, you can kill the 7000 vampires WITHOUT yup you heard me WITHOUT ascending him So if you still insist on ascending him after I told you this you're doing it for gameplay minmaxing or an evil storyline and that's 100% okay, but it's no longer morally because you know better now Also the souls sacrificed in the ascension go to the part of the hells where Mephistopheles is Yup including the vampire spawn Gur children some who look younger than 10
астарион всего лишь комар переросток. так же назойлив. и анимация бега как у синоби наруто смешит. лучшая его версия мертвая версия когда не жужит над ухом.
If he ascends is it still possible to have him in your team by the end and get what could he considered a "good ending"? Or if you're playing an evil character, can you still get the evil ending and rule everything with ascended astarion?
I look at it this way. Which is worse? One really powerful vampire or releasing thousands of vampire spawn upon the world? I chose one really powerful vampire.
Also even if you do release them you send them to the underdark where theirs only so much damage they can do, in the epilogue if you and Astarion go there (assuming you're romancing him) you build a fortress there to rule over them and care for them, so you're not even sending them to endanger people, just underdark creatures ( and maybe drow if they settle near Menzoberranzan 🤣)
That is why ascended Astarion is a truly evil ending. Because all of his character growth is undone in an instant and he is the worst version of himself.
Nah, perhaps a little out of character. Astarion seeks power to be free. It can potentially also corrupt but I for one agreed with and indulged him every time. He wanted to have the tadpoles, he got them, wanted the book.. I gave it to him. I personally hate the trope of remaining mortal/weak is good while embracing power is evil, so ascending him was a no-brainer cause it came with no strings attached at.
No, it's not evil.
It's the worst outcome because you kill all those people for the sake of power so cool you can live with that. So you'll sacrifice the many for the one. It's the other way around my guy.@@kayleemichelson4019
What are you nonces on about, vampirism changes alignments to evil.
You say evil ending...I say extra d10 necro dmg. Lol
It's a shame that the vampire ascended is hyped to be this powerful being but gameplay wise it changes almost nothing from regular astarion
By the time we face the Netherbrain, Ascendant Astarion develops the power to summon undead and werewolves.
@@kapitainein It bugged in my playthrough so I didn't even have an option to summon them
he has the potential but cannot use without practice. takes time to master abilities....at least this is the excuse the game is going with
The tadpoles are suppressing powers, Gale and Wyll mentioned it in the beginning of the game.
Bc Gale is the arch-wizard and god’s chosen (20 lvl in DnD), and Wyll is famous hero who was haunting devils in the Hells.
Durge also has less powers, before they were the leader of the cult and assassin who stole from Mephistopheles.
Though I don’t know what explanation for Halsin who is 5 lvl while he is archdruid (20 lvl), Jaheira and Minsc the same (probably just game restrictions)
Yeah. I even let Cazador ascend one just to see what would happen. Not much. :(
I wish we had more assertive dialogue options with ascended Astarion. You know, putting Astarion in his place, making it clear to him that "If you cause trouble under my nose, I'll personally kill you myself." I'm curious how he'd react.
Now I'm curious.
Probably not well
He'd attack you on the spot, that's for sure. Just try to deny him his ascension mid-ritual and see what happens. Once he gets absorbed by the power, he is not himself anymore and will do anything to retain that power.
Karlach's reaction, as always, is so touching and sad.
She's definitely one of the most lovable characters because she's so earnest.
@@leyrua She's such a true, sweet, joyous soul and it kills me that some people (on the game's guidance!) just kill her at the start.
Such a threat to the city, gets killed by a handful of npcs. Very anti-climactic after the Cazador fight 🥲
This is such a funny outcome, I love it. Like saving Aylin just to sell her to the wizard and watch Isobel die. Halsin's reaction is my favourite. He is just so confused why in the Hells you did that.
Why do their reactions make me feel like I've committed a stupid mistake by ascending him and then killing him? Hearing Shadowheart's reaction made me question my morality☹.
@@kapitainein It's a mystery. Maybe those devious devs are trying to manipulate your feelings 🤷
@@kapitainein oh feel it was pretty evil, you helped him do it and before he even got a chance to think turned on him instantly. He hadn't done or said anything worth murdering him over. The gur might be righteous evil slayers but also if you give him to them he ends up dead with Cazador anyway.
Idk Cazador fight was underwhelming
It’s for Tav/Durge who has schizophrenia of bipolar disorder 😂
Or super evil, doing good and giving hope to just snatch it away at the end.
Like playing whole game as super hero, just at the end to kill Karlach mindflayer and become Absolute.
man even to this day, theres still a bunch of things people havnt done, and have fully voiced stuff for, crazy.
Yet another reason I'll never let the power hungry boy ascend.
me either.
I might don't like Ascendant Astarion, but I'm crying nonetheless. Maybe because I know unascended Astarion and how happy, free, full of inner strengh, inner peace and positivity, as well as loved/respected by many (even the Gur) he is without the ascendant power. I need to watch something happy now 😭
Thanks for taking one for the team.
What ever gave you the idea he has inner peace? Or freedom? Or do you mean Asterion not ascending after ccasadors death ?
@@nerfedirl Right. I mean unascended Astarion. I'll edit my post to make it clear. It IS missleading I admit that.
How can you say that he is free and happy as a spawn? 😱😱 he is AFRAID of the sun!! He feels hunger, he is ALWAYS hungry. He can be killed anytime by some monster hunter and nobody will protect him. Just...... HOW can you leave his as a spawn?! 😱😱😱
@@MaryJay1988 Other than having to actively avoid sunlight, being a spawn ain't actually all that bad. his physical abilities still eclipse that of normal untrained people, & as far as his hunger goes, it ain't all that different from regular people hunger & unless he's goddamn famished, he doesn't even need to feed as regularly as normal people.
@@MaryJay1988 i leave him a spawn because as bittersweet as his good ending is, the power of ascension is literally a devil's trap. he sacrifices seven thousand souls and loses his own in the process and became the thing he hated and feared most, that's the tragedy of it (losing his soul/changing alignment to lawful evil is not speculation btw, that's actually how DND vampires work, and astarion himself tells you this early in act 1). if i have to choose between letting my friend condemn himself to a fate worse than death because he thought an infernal blood ritual would solve all his problems, or a life in the shadows** where he still has his soul AND he can be free of his tormentor forever and forge a new path for himself? i choose the latter every time. it's barely a contest imo
(also astarion isn't afraid of the sun at all?? astarion MISSES the sun. he cries when he has to leave it behind again in the spawn ending. he tells you himself he's not at all averse to looking for a cure so he can stand in the sun again.)
like, it's absolutely fine if you personally prefer the ascended astarion ending, you do you! but trying to reframe it as his Good Ending, Actually is more than a little bit silly when it's very obviously supposed to be an allegory for continuing a cycle of abuse. spawn astarion is an antihero, ascended astarion is a villain, and it's all fiction anyway so just embrace the villainfucking and enjoy yourself lmao.
** - there are a number of ways to get around this limitation or even cure vampirism in-setting, and one of them even came up in a previous baldur's gate game. larian simply doesn't address astarion's vampirism in BG3 beyond the cazador because it isn't germane to the story that was being told. curing him would be a whole expac on its own, same with going to avernus to save karlach.
Anyone who's convinced that ascending Astarion is a good choice to go with, is either knowingly doing it to be evil, or have no idea just how potent the corruptive influence of absolute power is, especially on someone who's already so power-hungry to begin with. anyone who says that Astarion can't possibly be happy if he doesn't go on with ascension is also downright delusional & in denial, seeing how he acts when he talks with PC later. on the contrary, Astarion DEFINITELY wouldn't be happy if he actually ascended. sure, he's elated in the moment, but having someone so power-hungry to begin with wield such absolute power would only make their hunger for power way way WORSE, as in utterly unsatiable, as he would ALWAYS crave more even if he has grown to wield more power than anyone alive. NO ONE can be happy being a slave to such uncontrollable cravings all the time. his physical vampiric hunger, which actually has a limit & very much controllable, would just get replaced by something that NO ONE, not even Astarion himself, can keep in check.
& to make matters worse, ascending Astarion simply dooms everyone around him. while he wouldn't grow to become a threat that would inconvenience the gods unless he, by some other possibly profane, insidious means, achieves godhood, his threat to every mortal being out there would still be comparable to that of the Absolute, if not worse.
yeah it's poor reading comprehension imo lol, the story path choices are abundantly clear which one is the dark ending. it's no different really from making choices that end with shadowheart becoming a dark justiciar, most of the companions have the potential to be the worst versions of themselves but the amount of copium i see coming from the people claiming that ascension is his good ending is just absolutely wild lmao
Ascending him is perpetuating a centuries old circle of abuse, yes.
And yes, maybe he's not immediately becoming Cazador 2.0 after the ritual, but it's kind of inevitable that in time he will. People will just want to hunt him down again like the Gur wanted Cazador down. And his delusions of grandeur will just grow deeper, he's probably barely half as powerful as he thinks Ascension made him. And you'd think that him taking over the Szarr Palace when Ascended, as opposed to Unascended when he burns it all down would be symbolic but obvious enough for everyone to understand as well
With that said, I see nothing wrong with people wanting to RP as evil characters, or trigger bad endings for fictional characters, or simply just wanting to explore all the routes a choice based game has to offer... I only think it's kind of iffy when people kid themselves about what this route actually means for his character. Some want to have their cake and eat it too as well. That would just be bad storytelling on the part of Larian imo, having this big of a win with no consequence whatsoever... Lukily enough that's not the case lol. Personally I think both sides of Astarion are written wonderfully, just for different reasons
@@ladyhrist Yeah from what I know, out of the Origin companions, only Wyll has two possible endings (excluding the worst outcome where Mizora's gone so he's doomed to be a Lemure in hell) where he'll be alright either way. He can and will do good for the world whether he's Grand Duke or Blade of Avernus. And even though being a doomslayer in Avernus is dangerous, he's clearly happy with Karlach as well. So that's still a good ending, for both of them
God Gale is debated a lot as well tbf, but I'd say it's a pretty obvious bad ending for him. He's just gonna become more and more consumed by his ambitions. Also Tara doesn't respect him anymore, that should speak volumes lol
I did because he sees his reflection that’s it or I thought he’d die by the sun in the good ending so yeah but he’ll be fine if not immortal until the stars burst as said in game
When I first played the game he dumped me in act 3 saying he was only using me but I ascended him anyway, in my second gameplay I ascended him again but my Tav and Astarion were in a relationship and I thought I was doing a good thing because this was what he wanted, but the second he ascended I questioned my beliefs bcs he scared the shit out of me and absolutely made me distance with the character... It really is scary but in my second gameplay I was being a bit evil so that's ok I guess lol
Wyll, Karlach, Halsin [sorta]: We had to do it to him. But did we have to do it that dirty?
Party reactions start from 01:29
For Minthara's reaction, here's the video:
ruclips.net/video/tTiKETtnkHo/видео.html
I never ascend the poor bugger. Can't do it.
Yeah just like I can’t let shadow heart kill the night song
@@benjammin5252don't compare them. They all have different stories ☝if Shadowheart will kill the Nightsong, she kills many more LIVING people in the "Last Light" tavern. And by ascending, Astarion kills ALREADY DEAD and HUNGRY monsters. Nobody will look out for them. So, killing them is THE BEST you can do.
@@MaryJay1988 I believe Astarion’s siblings end up looking after them (excluding the Gur children, who go back with their parents) if you choose not to kill them.
You’re not killing them, you’re sending their souls into eternal damnation. It’s cleaner to talk Astarion out of ascension and then just kill them without triggering the ritual.
Easy mode is killing one of his „siblings“ during the fight, so the ritual isn’t even an option.
@@MaryJay1988 Ok but do you consider Astarion to be alive? The logic you are using is fine if you don't, but if you do then you must accept that the other spawn are all alive as well.
Karlach and Wyll's reactions hurt me the most ☹️
I remember that Astarion was sad (as much as he could be) when Gale sacrifice himself and i feel sad that Gale doesn't seem so many touched :/
Maybe because Astarion didn't sacrifice himself in here.
Sad, but honestly not surprised...
What does minthara say?
She‘d probably be pissed.
Minthara's reaction to killing Ascendant Astarion:
ruclips.net/video/tTiKETtnkHo/видео.html
"There is no greater or lesser" uh...excuse me? You think The Emperor holds the same weight as Orin? Or Astarion is as great a threat as the big brain? I scoff at your foolish Gur naivety.
Same here. Sometimes I think of how many innocents that were 'cancelled' on the Grove by my hands but still managed to emerge as a hero in the Epilogue. Sometimes we make these choices in the name of 'science'.
She tried for the old Geralt of Rivia and failed. Because Geralt is talking about human monsters being the same as inhuman ones. She is generalizing threat level.
Oh wow, the echoes in this scene! I find it hilarious that the Gur leader is telling you she hopes you'll choose a better path than Astarion, while you're all veiny and clearly tadpoled up to the max LOL.
Lmao... Not to forget The Gur leader stole the lines from Geralt of Rivia - Evil is evil. There's no bigger, midling and so on. The Gurs are the witchers of DnD.
Poor Astarion.. 😢
why do I feel bad now?😓
I just finished his quest last night. I knew ascending him was monstrous, but gods! That ending! Who even is he? I'm so glad I was able to talk sense into him.
Curious what he says if you revive him, if you can revive him after that
Cannot revive him but you can cast 'speak with dead' on him. You can ask him 4 questions. 4'th being important in here: What did you plan to do after ascending?
Astarion: Planned to rule over Baldur's Gate. Finally be free.
@@kapitainein thanks :)
Man, Karlach's reaction breaks my heart ;-;
She is one of the kindest souls in the party. Overflowing with empathy.
Cant wait to unleash some serious spaghetti sauce with Ascended Astarion for my Dark Urge run.
Astarion is a well-written character, so well-written that if you look at him from a realistic and objective point of view you realize several things.
Astarion is a giant red flag in every way and it has nothing to do with what happened to him. He was already like this before he was transformed into a vampire, that only made it worse. But if you take it on the right path it changes a little for the better. Ascended Astarion only makes it worse than it already was.
Because if you look, Karlach also went through horrible things and did horrible things to survive, but once she got out of his tormentor's control. She acts like she always was, a good person.
That's why I don't feel sorry for Astarion, because not only is he not sorry for what he did, but I feel like he really enjoyed it. He only hated the part where Cazador tortured him and he couldn't decide for himself. Yes, what happened to him was horrible, but that doesn't justify the rest. He himself says that he was manipulating you from the beginning and if you read his thoughts after ascending he literally only sees you as his pet or his toy, that like to be humiliated and used.
Finally someone Sees it. He Always gets Defended but in the end wether He was Like this before He became a Vampire or after, His torture does Not excuse anything.
Karlach is a good example, she could be completly bitter and hateful (which honestly would be a great bait and Switch If she really was evil and Just tricked us) but she is Not. Right until you persuade Astarion that He should Not ascend He is selfish. Yes He mentions that He feels pity for the other Spawn but after He learns about the Ritual He is completly fine with betraying Them.
He tried. he once refused to kidnap a man.
Cazador put him in a coffin for this. alive, for a whole year. ALONE.
he was tortured for 200 years. How long was Karlach in hell?
You really can't blame him for thinking mostly about himself.
but if you give him the chance he also cares about others.
@@kochfeemiri663 No. He does Not try until you fix the Ritual and even after that its... Not much. He dislikes every time you do Something for someone Else and only by your doing He does some good. The time spent does Not Care for His deeds. He was never a good Person from the start and only became worse. And He uses His Trauma to instill sympathy.
The best Path for him is Not learning about the Ritual from Raphael until you want to kill cazador. That way He never thinks Long Time about betraying/sacrifizing the other spawns. So He only is tempted a short Moment which can be avoided/persuaded by your Character and He gets His Revenge. But after that He still needs your Character as s Moral compass.
I dont judge Astarion for being selfish, but I do judge him for being evil. For 200 years he didn't have his basic needs met on top of SA. I'm not surprised he emerged from situation of only looking out for himself when nobody ever looked out for him before.
I somewhat disagree. In Act 1 I do agree he is against helping people, but by Act 2 &3 he mellow out on his disapprovals and even has moments where he approves and/or advocate to help people, like Yenna, Volo, and Vanra
Source:
m.ruclips.net/video/pvahL6SrhLw/видео.html&pp=ygUNQXN0YXJpb24gdm9sbw%3D%3D
m.ruclips.net/video/x2fWdHAbskA/видео.html&pp=ygUOYXN0YXJpb24geWVubmE%3D
m.ruclips.net/video/gCUyFWp9VRQ/видео.html&pp=ygUOYXN0YXJpb24gdmFucmE%3D
ugh…. i wish i weren’t doing an evil durge run… ascending him is necessary
Ascend him or not... just don't kill him. At least he keeps his promise to help taking down Netherbrain. ☺.
RIP bozo I won't miss him
Bo..bo.. Bozo😅
Why would you RIP yourself, and call yourself a bozo?
i would never let astarion ascend but im on an all evil durge run so im planning to ascend astarion him either way LMFAO. but i agree to not letting him ascend story wise. but man the scenes on ascended astarion is just SPICY,
Still wish there was a third option to just have him and his siblings drink Cazador dry and all become true vampires instead of spawn. Power itself isn't evil, you can make an argument for why it is justifiable, but that doesn't make it good. Throwing away all chances to become **more** is still very odd to me. Especially seeing as a lot of people want him to Ascend so that *they* "ascend" with him as his spawn. Him being a regular vampire would be a middle ground.
And before anyone tries it: yes, releasing thousands of spawn is a terrible idea. Saying "on the city" isn't true, you release them into the Underdark where I'd wager more than half are going to die. Some will eventually find their way up and out. It's Baldur's Gate, though. The city is always 3 rests away from another evil doer popping up, and just as well it also says a lot that your first thought is to kill a ton of people because of a "what if" situation. Especially people that were lured and essentially trafficked. Due to game restraints there wasn't going to be a very good answer to that many people as you can't ask them individually what they want; but it also really should never be up to one person if they all die for being the abused.
I personally think him not Ascending and freeing the spawn complete his arc is ending what Cazador inflicted and essentially foisted upon him and his "siblings" as it ties off that story neatly. I simply wish there was an in between to get the vampire-fantasy, especially since game-play wise it wasn't ground shattering changes and for how late in the game it is it's even more odd. Time restraints I suppose.
Because that isn't how it works. Vampires are made with intent, not just blood. The master has to want them to become vampires.
@@LupineShadowOmega cool.
Witcher yee yee ahh mfs
I knew there was a Witcher reference in here when Ulma said Evil is evil no matter big or small.
I wonder if the party reacts if Astarion dies during Cazador's ritual. I never do this route, I had this happen only once and I reloaded immediately. All I remember is a quest log note - he's dead, no time for the funeral, lol
I'll update the answer in here :)
He died during my fight. Withers could only bring back his corpse to camp. I thought it was because I chose whatever option where all the vampire sacrifices die instead of releasing them, before trying to revive him, and he counted in that. When I saved Baldur's Gate, he showed up on the pier alive and well.
Ascending him only makes sense if you're doing an evil Dark Urge/Tav playthrough. Otherwise it is honestly pretty damn illogical.
I saved Astarion and killed all the spawns with the Woe.
There can be only one Vampire spawn I guess😅.
I never thought I'd say this, but after watching this vid, I've come to the inevitable conclusion that killing Ascended Astarion generates the best possible outcome.
By ascending, he kills all the spawns that would otherwise doom Baldur's Gate, the Underdark and who knows where else.
Ascended, he becomes a threat to the entire world.
Either way, he becomes a problem.
Fans won't kill him because he's eye candy and has a sexy voice. Plus, "poor elf boy" storyline. So it's hard to expect people to look at his storyline objectively.
The only other "happy ending" is if he doesn't ascend, but doesn't let the spawn live either.
Still, the price is for him to spend his eternal life as a slave to the vampire hunger, never seeing sunlight ever again. That's to say, another imperfect ending, but still the second best outcome for his character.
Astarion happiest ending is probably his spawn ending. In the epilogue he's cheerful and friendly towards the player, and accepts staying the shadows saying they're apart of who he is.
You can easily still kill the spawn. Both Astarion and the Gur will agree to see it as mercy
@@natoshamorant6506spawn Astarion lies to you, because he has nothing left and he still needs your protection.
Agree with you! 🤝
You're right though there's things in dnd lore you can do to let him see the sun again as a spawn, hell even in game there's a potion of radiant resistance.
@@MaryJay1988 You have VERY poor insight if you can call that telling lies. hell, maybe you're just projecting cuz what happened doesn't align with your beliefs.
Remember, Origin Ascended Astarion can be whatever you want. That's my headcanon and I will always allow him to ascend there to become an antihero, free from the corruption that comes from gaining so much power.
Ascending Astarion is just like you killing everyone at Last Light to become the Slayer. Yes that's evil. In fact it's the same thing. The sacrifice of innocents to gain power. That's definitely evil. He sort of justifies it as survival in the form of losing his vampiric hunger and permanent ability to walk in the sun. But those are just excuses since he knew the cost of the ritual... On the other hand setting 7000 vampire spawn free to roam Faerûn is also horrible.
Vampire spawn are not innocents...they just cannot be. We can argue for their personhood all day and should, but its a false dichotomy because no one at the Inn needs to actively hunt other people for survival. And yes, even animals is a problem, because while they can survive on animal blood, they'll always be drawn to humanoids. It is a thing they can't help. Even Astarion himself who has lived for 200 years isn't free of the temptation, he was just ordered not to and couldn't disobey. And those spawn aren't going anywhere. They're functionally immortal and will keep killing for generations unless stopped.
The ritual and then killing Astarion is effectively the moral choice if we're being honest, but the game refused to make that argument because letting the spawn live is the defaulted "good" choice in their mind and it would be more complex to muddy those waters.
Here is some thoughts about the debate between the "Astarion was traumatised" team and the "trauma is a excuse, he is a bad person" team.
First, psychology studies, developmental psychology in particuliar, show us that yes, the more you destroy someone, the more they they're at risk to become toxic, manipulative or violent. For example, children raised by really bad parents (strongly inconsistent, manipulative or abusive) tend to become manipulative around the age of 6. The possibility of understanding the world you live, to find some meaning and possibility to choose, is a deep human need. So if it's lacking too much, you are at high risk to develop manipulative behaviors, to regain predictability and liberty. It's a survival move, not the sign you're inherently bad.
You can see that sort of development at any age. The mind tries to find a way to survive, when the world around you is very fucked up it uses what it can and it's not that easy to get rid of that. Unconscious influences are at work in every people, way more that they believe. It's not that easy to change.
As in every situation, people react diffently to suffering. Yes you can always find someone who succeded to be a good person after violence. But is it fair to say to the others that they choose to become bad ? It's the same as accusing the poors for being lazy become a slight portion of them succeed to gain a comfortable situation. Or ill people who died for being weak because some survive.
Astarion is written very realistically in regards of human psychology. Whatever personnality he had before turning into a vampire, 200 years of heavy torture should have change him into what we see in game. It's the most expective outcome by far. Just blamind his behaviors is blaming him for being tortured.
At the other hand... you don't have to save him. Acknowledging someone has turned manipulative because of suffering doesn't imply that you have the duty to accept everything and save him. In fact, you have a very poor chance to succeed if you're alone in this work. The character development of the traumatised boy who become good because of you is a common dream, but almost never happen in real life, not that way. Tortured people are not doomed of course, but sadly they can't be saved so easily. The ones who change have learned to be aware of what they do and think about it. I really like Astarion, but if he was a real person, I would never let me having any sentimental thought for him. Because he's not safe at all. He needs friends to slowly help him to progress in a new way of thinking, rejecting him without trying to undersand is not fair. But suffering by his hands for the hope that he'll become nice is not fair eather. And the most people have that sort of trauma, the most they have bad attachment behaviors, so being their lover are not the best for him to heal.
It's a game, so having a romantic or sexual relationship with him costs nothing. It's a dream, you can play it the way you like it. I just wanted to bring some psychology into the debate, because I thought it lacks it. Hope you enjoyed reading this and I didn't make to many English mistakes. Be empathetic to people who has suffered and don't abandon you in a saving quest, both are the two sides of the same coin. :)
Interesting read .
I agree with everything you said. I grew up in a bad situation and was diagnosed with cPTSD (complex PTSD). When I was younger, I lashed out at people or tried to control every situation I was in as a way to protect myself. It took YEARS of therapy and people being patient with me and explaining my behavior to me for it to start sinking in. What caused my mental illness was not my fault... but that didn't make me innocent either. A lot of people use mental illness as an excuse to be toxic. One of the reasons why I like this story in particular is that it seems they really took a psychological look into his character... and while I do think it is unrealistic for someone to change as fast as he does in the game (if you don't ascend him), I really appreciate the comments made from redemptive durge about finding a new family and from him talking about breaking a centuries-long cycle. I also like (for lack of a better word) that they show how toxic he can be when you do ascend him... because that is very common as well.
This would be extremely funny if not for all the spawn who got sent to the hells for it. Letting Astarion live this long is a mistake, imo, better to kill him in Act One.
now i wonder what is minthara's reaction
@@silvanobianchini6924 New video dropped. Minthara's reaction:
ruclips.net/video/tTiKETtnkHo/видео.htmlsi=Q3LtumfhO9LtJhP5
what did Astarion sacrifice???????? they always say he did, and i don't understand what they refer to.
@@sammyisanoctopus no, when your char breaks up with him, he says he "sacrificed" lots of something even if he didn't ascend. i dunno. he's such a conceited twat.
@@sammyisanoctopus when your char breaks up with him he says he sacrificed somethin, while not ascended. is that his sacrifice? he didn't ascend, conceited тwат.
@@sammyisanoctopus as someone said i play for escapism, i don't want realistically handsome a**hоlе, i want exceptional characters in my fantasctic game.
The 7,000 spawn required for him to ascend. Hes saying that because he killed thousands of vampires, the gur should be thanking him.
The 7 thousand vampire spawns
Poor Astarion. I helped him ascend and we are still best friends
what about minthara?
Minthara's reaction to this:
ruclips.net/video/tTiKETtnkHo/видео.html
I feel sorry for him, so why do this to him?((((
Hey even I feel for him. Minthara was right all along. If Astarion had become a monster then a monster is what was required to defeat the greater evil.
Does Minthara have anything to say about this?
She wasn't in the party. It was either her or Halsin.
@@kapitainein I know but does she have any dialogue for it?
@@dvorah7516 There must be one and am curious to know what she has to say. I'll update her reaction later in the description 🙂.
@@kapitaineinknowing her character it’s either we were stupid to so quickly betray a powerful ally/asset when we could’ve used him against the brain or smart for handling him before he could assert his influence in the city. Either way he’s a piece on a game board to be dealt with.
@@kapitainein There's several ways to have her and Halsin in the party. The path I've chosen was to knock her out in goblin's camp then she appears as prisioner's Thorn in act 2. Just free her and you can put her and Halsin in party, without exploit or anything like that
Hmmm I am beginning to think that even before being a vampire, astarion was pretty much the worst. After what Minsc and Jaheira said, I doubt the gur would attack him without good reason. The dude bloody lied to us about the children so he was intending to manipulate us to do his bidding.
There are terrible people in every group. Also, it’s pretty heavily implied Cazador had something to do with them trying to murder Astarion in the first place. Meaning Cazador hired them to attack him. They’re not necessarily good people because someone brain dead and a Druid with questionable principles (see: abandoning her children) said so
@@Callidus7SSM He is evil from the first moment you meet him. He consistently approves when you display cruelty towards others, and dislikes acts of kindness. If you put him in a position of power he will act the same as Cazador.
@@Callidus7SSM I like how you equate Jaheira neglecting her children for saving the world to Astarion being a trash person all around. Even the concept art describes him as a "corrupt elite." before turning. The player character is the sole responsible force for steering Astarion in a somewhat better direction, unlike Shadowheart who feels terrible if you kill the tieflings and doubts Shar in act II. He is weak enough to not be able to better himself without help.
Astarion a neutral evil it makes sense he wouldn't care about the tieflings. Astarion also does nor wish to better himself. He revels in evil and will do whatever it takes to be powerful, even if it means sacrificing the innocent
@@natoshamorant6506canonically He is Chaotic evil If a source book is to be Believed.
where is this camp location?
This is the Act 3 camp
The Elfsong Tavern Guest room. Available at 200 gold coins or for free with some persuasion .
@@wynteranju Act 3 camp is in the city, i think some ruins by the river.
@@kapitainein thanks, i will try to camp there in the next run.
I've waited the entire game to ascend Astarion, only for the quest to bug, and it being impossible to do. I don't know if the bug was fixed even since, since I'd dropped the game in the same month it was released, specifically because of this. Astarion deserves ascension, fuck anyone who says otherwise.
Astarion is my favorite companion but the resolutions to his personal quest annoys me. Nothing to do with Astarion himself, just the way the game seems to think that it is the morally superior choice to betray someone who put his complete trust in you and could not have done that terrible deed without your help. Or releasing thousands of feral vampire spawn with no master to control them out into the world. Yep definintely the better choice.
You dont have to release them 😂
Wow, what a stupid outcome 😂 why tf would you sacrifice 7k spawn to the hells and then betray Astarion? The player character must absolutely abhor vampires. So very, very clever of them 🤪
Cunning ultimate neutral evil play, i guess. just finding every reason & way to fuck everyone up.
Maybe some people just didn’t succeed in persuading Astarion from backing out
@@esteriall3086 so first they fail to save 7 thousand spawn, then they betray their own companion. Instead of being malicious, they are just incompetent, much better 😂
Well not everyone save scummed whole goddamn game. My act 2 village was razed because priestess got 4 crits in a row to the face before i could make a turn
"What a stupid outcome"
Gee, it's almost like the devs put the effort into making multiple possible outcomes for just about every scenario.
By your logic they might as well have just cut almost everything about Ethel from the game. Minimal to non-existent uses to the quest rewards, and there's no way to avoid either getting people killed and/or causing them emotional pain.
But isn't it more interesting to have multiple choices, and multiple chances along a quest line to change your mind? Even at the last moment? Maybe you even find out new information long after you made your choice that makes you wonder if you made the right one?
Astarion goes to hell
I will always ascend Astarion because nothing really changes. Make my ally stronger, destroy literally thousands of spawn, and kill some annoying monster hunters with a holier than thou attitude? Sign me up. Every time. You’re crazy if you think I’m freeing or just leaving 7,000 vampires to skulk about the city.
They actually go live in the Underdark, which is safe as can be for them. Considering the Gur also plan to follow and watch over them, even better. Meanwhile, Astarion grows into a better person without ascension. Meanwhile, he becomes a heartless monster after ascending.
@@matthewsimon6170 Ah yes let them roam the underdark after they’ve been starved and cause all sorts of problems and damage down there, fantastic idea. The gur are watching them? The same people that were hired to beat Astarion to the brink of death so Cazador could sink his teeth into him? The same people who would’ve just gave Astarion to Cazador? Yeah I trust them! Give Astarion a life of power in the sun which he had been denied 200 years, or force him back into the shadows simply to be a “better person”? Let him take the power. He deserves it. Oh no, he’s literally no different just more powerful now with huge ambitions, whatever will I do?
I am with you!! ASCENDED ASTARION ALL THE WAY! 🦇💜💜💜💜 definitely, THE BEST choice! for those who choose "spawn" route: grow up, guys. Like, really, if you would be in Astation's situation, you'd still prefer to be a spawn, FOREVER hide in the underdark?..🤦♀️
Yes to the make Astarion stronger 1D10 damage is 1D10 damage but if you're doing it for "moral" reasons, you can kill the 7000 vampires WITHOUT yup you heard me WITHOUT ascending him
So if you still insist on ascending him after I told you this you're doing it for gameplay minmaxing or an evil storyline and that's 100% okay, but it's no longer morally because you know better now
Also the souls sacrificed in the ascension go to the part of the hells where Mephistopheles is
Yup including the vampire spawn Gur children some who look younger than 10
You still can kill all spawns even when Astarion doesn't ascend.
Yeah, well, I'm glad that dude I piked at the camp had an interesting life. Not on my save, though.
астарион всего лишь комар переросток. так же назойлив. и анимация бега как у синоби наруто смешит. лучшая его версия мертвая версия когда не жужит над ухом.
Shinobi Naruto style running 🤣.
If he ascends is it still possible to have him in your team by the end and get what could he considered a "good ending"? Or if you're playing an evil character, can you still get the evil ending and rule everything with ascended astarion?
A good ending in general, Yes. It's 'good' if you are into ruling the Baldur's Gate along with Astarion who adores you dearly .
I look at it this way. Which is worse? One really powerful vampire or releasing thousands of vampire spawn upon the world? I chose one really powerful vampire.
You dont have to release them also Astarion is planning to make an army of spawn for himself 😂
Also even if you do release them you send them to the underdark where theirs only so much damage they can do, in the epilogue if you and Astarion go there (assuming you're romancing him) you build a fortress there to rule over them and care for them, so you're not even sending them to endanger people, just underdark creatures ( and maybe drow if they settle near Menzoberranzan 🤣)