Should 300 Blackout replace 7.62x39?
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
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We talk about 300 BLK on the US market and in todays environment if it makes more sense to adopt 300 BLK vs. 7.62x39. 
Развлечения
Other commenters raise a good point. Brass 7.62x39mm is going to be more desirable than steel going forward because the brass can be reloaded.
My Chinese Norinco damages the brass cases to where there's no way they could possibly be reloaded again.
Most ak’s will not let you reload as they will f up that case most of the time
That'll be a contributing factor to the cartridge's decline.
@rtrfu9894 that sux, for sure. Thank goodness my quality 7.62x39 guns run reloadable PPU and Igman all day.
@Kcal556 please cite some facts. What gun, what ammo, what percentage of the time. My 7.62x39 guns run reloadable PPU and Igman just fine. US made brass not made to the correct spec perhaps?
I’m not ditching my Eastern Bloc guns, but yeah… the .300 Blackout is easier to work with and the availability-gap has narrowed considerably.
I’m not even that old but watching this happen hurts. Sure, it’s easy enough to get an upper but still.
The issue is also mags AK mags are better with a constant curvature. Also 7.62 can't blow up your AR like one that somehow heads paces just fine in it.
Thanks for the loot
high quality 300blk vmax ammo is surprisingly affordable compared to a few years ago. 300 BLK is officially mainstream now. God Bless PSA/AAC
Exactly. The old argument that 300 blackout is just too expensive is no longer valid. There is a great ammo comparison tool "ammo prices now".
300 Blackout is now ~$0.49 / round
5.56 NATO is now ~$0.40 / round
7.62x39 is now ~$0.43 / round
Ya less than $1 a round for duty ammo and subs and .5$ rd for fmj is cheap
don't tell anyone about my; Vmax!! lol its already gone up to $14 a box and no free shipping!
@@user-pt2st3nm8p Yes, I also checked ammoseek today, and you're only telling a half truth-you're not factoring in shipping costs. 5.56 AND 7.62x39 right now is 40-49 cents/round with varied shipping prices or 50 cents/round with free shipping and have been for about a year (I assume most of you here check about once/week like I do). 300 BO is anywhere from 50-62 cents/round with varied shipping prices or 63-65 cents/round with free shipping.
@@user-pt2st3nm8p Yes but m193 556 is like 55 cents a round. to buy good 300 BO you are spending at least a buck a round for GOOD ammo you would actually want to use.
No, I think US ammo manufacturers should start manufacturing affordable steel case 7.62x39. Now with ALL the ak’s, SKS, VZ58’s we bought, is the question should we now throw all of them to the back of the closet/gun safe? And try to re-buy all of them, as well as all the new platforms for 300blk?? I get it, you might be rich and can afford to buy all of them, but most gun enthusiasts aren’t. Manufacturers have money to innovate and make new guns. Again, take some money and buy tooling/machines to manufacture steel case 7.62x39 ammo. 7.62x39 have put plenty of people in the dirt, it was good then and it’s still viable and good now.
AAC is making steel case 7.62x39 - it's just not on the market yet.
You must believe in the Easter Bunny if you think US manufacturers employing US labor will ever make steel-cased cartridges for anywhere near as cheaply as it is made in factories whose machinery was paid for by the state and 750 ruble an hour workers.
A vz58 is the only .300 blackout I have any interest in but a short pistol vz58 that uses ar magazines i want.
Yes the US ammo companies need to make steel cased 7.62x39 (and the import ban also needs to be lifted) and you shouldn't store your x39 rifle in the closet and never shoot it again but if you're someone like me that doesn't already have one and is debating between getting a 300BO or 7.62x39 rifle, this video was good info.
Hear hear!
Perfectly fine buying American and other brass 7.62x39 for my ak. It's not that much more than my 5.56 ammo and still way cheaper than my grendel ammo. Still able to add to my stores.🤷♂️
Exactly. No big deal.
That's not the point. His point was the whole draw to 7.62x39 is that it was cheap. Now that it's not cheap it's lost much or the luster. Now you have to buy an AK that is more expensive than ARs. Upgrade the hell out of it to make it close to equal. Then you no longer save money on plinking ammo. My first rifle I bought myself was a Romanian AKM. But I'd never advise a new shooter to buy an AK as their first rifle. The ammo and rifles are way way more expensive. That's the point. Used to be able to get a rifle and tons of ammo and it be affordable. Now it's more of a experienced gun guy thing or a wanna be gangster thing. Rarely new shooters.
@@Wade-1not any more expensive than 5.56 and it works great in the AR platform with the ASC magazines and works great for hogs and deer inside a hundred yards, it's not going away soon so it depends on what you have in the safe for shooters,
@@dinadaughtry8993 Works, but those magazines are just obnoxious and comical looking.
I have a lot of 7.62 x 39 stashed away.
I reload my practice ammo on a progressive press. I use .311 bullets and boxer brass. I haven't had any trouble finding components, and I can get both small and large primer brass.
The cost is comparable to reloading .223.
I can reload 3-400 rounds in an hour. Good for several practice sessions.
None of the US sanctions on Russia, including the ban on importing ammo, hurt Russia, but these US government actions did harm Americans.
That seems to have always been the plan. The people sanctioning Russian, Chinese, and other foreign arms are more concerned about tearing down the Second Amendment than they are hurting those countries.
Almost as if that was the real purpose.
Eggzackly so
@@theodoreheintz7891 - Yup. Economic sanctions didn't harm Russia but took US serfs a big step toward a central bank digital currency. :-(
That was the idea
I like that you can just buy a blackout upper for your current AR and don't need to buy a whole rifle.
@@nicks2581Only problem I have is! If you have an AR15 , they are like a bag of chips. You can’t stop reaching for more flavors . Damn I need to go on a diet. Have graduated up into AR10 platform now.
Do you need to change out the buffer mounting a .300 upper with carbine length gas system on a lower that came with a 5.56 with carbine length gas system?
I remember buying my old WASR for 400 bucks now that rifle runs for $1000+. It's insane. So glad I stocked up on 7.62x39 when I did. Unfortunately, the age of cheap x39 is probably gone.
Same and same. Might have to buy an AR pistol now that they are priced like WASRs were back in the day. Tempting, although I'm invested in AK heavy.
Yep I bought mine for 400. That was looong ago
Back in the day I remember a box of 20 rds for 2.89 a box
Eh, they're about 750 right now, not bad.
I bought a Wasr 10 literally 2 weeks ago for 660 from Black Hawk Armory. If someone bought. A Wasr for 1000 they were just dumb and didn't know any better.
I would say give it time. There's more than enough reason for people to try and meet the 7.62x39 ammo demand in the US. Not to say it will ever be super cheap again or beat 300 BO, but it's a strain period and that happens in the gun industry sometimes.
I don’t see that strain period ever going away in the divided states of America though. At least not for a generation or three
true but 300 bo is only getting adopted more and more, so it could just as easily get low enough to where its if not cheaper at least comparable to where 762 bottoms out, which is enough for most id say to go for the bo
Agreed --
It will be overly expensive, just like 5.56 is only rising in pricing
More powder/more bullet weight = even more expensive than 5.56, approaching 308 pricing
@@watchonjar"300BLk being adopted more and more"
Dude thats like "Nuclear Fusion breakthrough within 5yrs".
I heard the same thing 12 years ago and its gone nowhere.
Unless youre a reloader and have a serious press setup its a waste of consideration. Components are tracking the general uptrend in ammo prices due to substitution effect anyway.
Remember, AAC is about to start making 7.62x39 and 5.45👀
But at what cost.
@556x45dude well considering they are making 9mm for less then 300 beans for 1000 rounds, id say cheaper then current offerings
dollars to donuts that ammo will, in time, largely be bought up by contractors and the state department to be sent to ukraine as aid and whats left for the civilian market will be just as expensive as the brass case stuff that comes out of bosnia. its a good way for psa to cash in more on that conflict though, smart move. its that damn war in ukraine, if 5.56 was the most common caliber being used in that conflict the tables would be turned and 5.56/300blk would be astronomical in comparison and the cmmg mutant would be flying off the shelves rather than collecting dust.
Hopefully it will be comparable to the other loads they are offering. Their 9mm and 5.56 has been pretty good so far.
Good, that's US Manufacturers making 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. Still won't come close to older combloc stuff as they were paid literally nothing to make the ammo their.
300 blackout has been my bump in the night gun for 8 years now. So many ammo options! Happy with my decision.
Friend of mine has one with zero issues
This helped me make my decision thx
To address some comments: 5.56 and 7.62x39 are virtually the same exact price on ammoseek (40-49 cents/round with varied shipping prices or 50 cents/round with free shipping) and have been for about a year (I assume most of you here check about once/week like I do). 300 BO is anywhere from 50-62 cents/round with varied shipping prices or 63-65 cents/round with free shipping. .300 BO plummets at distance quicker than x39, and 7.62x39 is insanely accurate out of my CMMG MK.47 and Ruger American Ranch out to about 350 yards or so, which is the furthest I shoot based on the ranges by me anyway. I sure hope more people start switching to .300 BO, because that will lower demand for 7.62x39 and lower prices even further. Between my Zpap, MK.47, SKS and Ruger Amer. Ranch, I'm sticking with 7.62x39 haha. AR-47's are also insanely fun to build!
Right on! My AR upper in 7.62x39 is a tack driver with the heavy barrel. It's my only 7.62x39 but I still really like it and stock ammo for it.
Thank you for publishing this. I’ve said this for years, 300 blackout continues to be one of the most misunderstood cartridges on the market. I hope more shooters continue to appreciate it and adopt it over time!
Good ammo people are stupid creating so much confusion
When Walmart sold rifle ammo, they sold Remington 120gr and 220gr 300BLK ammo. To me, the 300BLK has been mainstream for over 10 years. It cost $16/box back then.
Those were good times ( I remember).
I got a ruger mini 14 in 300blk. I run the factory peep aperture sights. The back sight have two aperturs to chose from. They're 100 and 200 yard settings that match up when using 120 grain. When I use 220 grain I flip to the 200 yard sight and it now matches up to become my 100 yard sight. I love the fact that it works out so well to switch form 120 to 220 grain bullets and all I have to do is flip my back sight over.
Who is making the mini in 300blk? I'm assuming you built that your self since I think ruger stopped making the mini
You are absolutely right, 300 blackout keeps great velocity in short barrels too.
I believe 300 Blackout offers superior versatility and compatibility with existing AR platforms, making it a compelling choice over 7.62x39. Its performance in suppressed applications and subsonic loads adds another layer of appeal, especially for urban or close-quarters scenarios. However, 7.62x39's widespread availability and affordability can't be ignored, catering to those favoring budget-conscious shooting.
Is 300 blk more expensive then 7.62? Yes no doubt, that being said 7.62 is now as much as 5.56 if not more expensive and less reliable which just sucks. The days of 7.62 being 30 cents is gone unfortunately 😒
@@GiveMeYoSammich I live in New York where it's very expensive to buy ammo 556 is closer to $20 a box and you can still get a box of 762 for about 11 bucks...... So I press x to your comment.
@GiveMeYoSammich 5.56 is at least $100 more per 1000 than 7.62. Not to mention it hits much harder and leaves a bigger hole. It's WAY cheaper than 300blk. I'll stick with my 7.62
As a dyed in the wool AK fan boy, until they start making the AK platform in 300blk, I'll be sticking with my 7.62. It hits harder and moves faster than supersonic 300blk at a fraction of the cost.
It is just annoying the market is forcing people to switch to another platform.
If Jim Fuller can't get 300 black out to run reliably in the AK pattern rifles then that should tell you something.
@j.till_z it says alot... That ak pattern rifles suck 🤣🤣🤣
5.56 AKs have been notoriously shitty, so I’m not surprised that a chambering based on the same parent case is also bad.
@@Jon-ki2pxNo, it just means that most autoloaders will not happily run subsonic loads. The only big advantage to the Stoner system is how much better it cycles a weak load with its very light reciprocating mass. .300BO was developed from a hunting pistol cartridge and is pretty unsuitable for most platforms.
.308 runs great in AK pattern rifles, obviously it's a very different cartridge but I just thought I'd throw that out there
An AK, is what it is. A rugged tool meant for harsh conditions with performance and production cost that made it hard to beat. It’s simple and easy to maintain. That’s the beauty of the platform. It’s simple but extremely effective. Nothing wrong with newer platforms but it doesn’t negate the benefits of the AK in any way.
I have 3 300AAC Blackout firearms. 7.5, 10.5 and 16 inch variations. I love them all!
10.5 short stroke piston .300 blackout from POF is what I want 🤌
I'm 300 blk fan boy, my first AR build is my 300 blk and I love it. I agree with you.👍🏻
Wouldn't the argument be 6.5 grendel replacing 7.62x39? Makes more sense comparing apples to apples.
Makes much more sense. The Serbs are doing it.
Agreed 300blk is nothing like 7.62x39 6.5 grendel and 6mm arc are the better versions of 7.62x39
Same issue though. 6.5 Grendel is more expensive than 300BO
@@MARKSMAN108300BO has the same ballistics as the 7.62x39 out of a 9” bbl out to 400yards.
Well it also makes no sense comparing the DI AR cost to a piston driven AK cost. Like where can I find an AR that is CHF, chrome lined, and piston driven for under $1000? I can get all of that with a Zastava M70 right now, add the upgrades later and still be below cost as most good piston driven AR guns.
I agree , especially if you own a can.
Using .300BLK subs suppressed is awesome!!
YES, it is.
I believe the 300 Blackout has the potential to become a new favorite among shooters seeking reliability and adaptability in their firearms
Caliber versatility is the most important thing for shooters these days (even above specialized performance). 300 blackout is very hard to beat in that regard.
@@flyingphoenix113 that and being complementary. If you have 300blk and .308 guns, you can share suppressors, and each caliber can have its zone of use (QCB and under 200 yards vs over 200 yards/long range); I find 300blk compliments 308 far better than .223
Lots of great points! Thanks for the info!
I will never pay for ammo and leave it with a broker. This sounds like FTX.
Yeahhhhh, same thing I was thinking the thru the entirety of his ammosquared spiel… not a chance in hell I would trust that.
I purchased a whole other 64 gun safe for the sole purpose of securing / stockpiling / organizing my ammunition.
@@nathanstack2951 Ammo is heavy, but having possession of it is a must.
Their prices suck as well. It’s not a service that I would use.
I made some dollies to make moving my ammunition around a little easier so I had to weigh it to make sure I wasn't exceeding the weight limit on the dollies.
I'm about a thousand rounds away from 5,000 lbs. My chiropractor loves me
@@sociopathmercenary Time for a used forklift! LOL!
I really enjoy MAC videos. I have to go with 7.62x39 over .300 BO. Why? It's mainly from a hunting perspective:
1. I own both a bolt & AR-platform rifles in the short Russian
2. When I started researching a modern .30cal-ish replacement for the .30 WCF my results lead me to the 7.62x39. (123-150gr, although its not quite the same) Ballistically the a 123-125gr pill generates more energy for deer hunting then the BO(not saying you can't kill deer with 300BO but I get 100-200fps faster in the bolt-gun then the 300BO from 16in barrel...faster is faster. Also, the 7.62x39 can safely utilize .308, .310, .311in bullets(slug the bore if in doubt)
3. I have no need to shoot beyond 100yds.(most shots less then 60yds) 4. Sub-sonic capability means nothing to me 5. I reload & can achieve very good accuracy in both platforms.
6. Cost for components is still good. The 7.62x39 being the parent to the 220 Russian, 6.5 Grendel and 6ARC & 22ARC means brass can be somewhat available and affordable.
7. The 7.62x39Russian sounds tougher then the 300 'stinky' B.O. cartridge, plus saying seven point six two by thirty-nine Russian is verbal exercise and exercise is always healthy 😂
I agree that the 300BO has more bullet choices(sorta? Lobbing over weight, under-speed projectiles quietly🤫 isn't my thing) and better magazine feeding, etc. However, by utilizing different diameter bullets i can get a wide variety of bullets in the 7.62x39. So, if being suppressed is your thing and you don't reload choose the 'stinky BO'. 🍻
Whichever you choose just be safe and have fun.
Cheers from Wisconsin 🧀
Thanks, Tim. This was very informative
I really like the .300 Blackout in super and subsonic loadings. The .300 Blackout is great for short and medium range purposes and is right at home in the AR platform. I hope it grows in popularity and ammo prices come down. I prefer the .300 Blackout over 5.56 for my purposes.
Palmetto armory is now making their own ammo of 7.62x39.
Can you post the link, I can’t find it on their site.
@jkonkel3985 Palmetto armory hasn't been posted yet,but I saw a short video of them making their own from their new ammunition facility in steel case ammo. It's been something they always wanted to do besides buying other ammunition from other companies. It's coming soon.
Loved this! You've voiced all the points I've been making for years and I now have half a dozen blackouts in different configurations that I choose appropriate ammo for with each. I've never been an AK guy, but I do have two hybrid builds with Billet Rifle Systems BRS47 receivers and BCGs.
Tim, if you reload, Cycling Subs for 7.62x39: 220 grain .309 Berry's pill, 14 grains of H322 or Benchmark, seat to 2.18", no gas adjustments, and you're welcome.
I would love to see a short barrel .300 blackout AK come to market. 5.56 AKs are already the new hotness, and this seems like the logical next step.
I quite like that idea too, a Zastava M85 in .300blkout, or maybe even PSA Krink in .300blkout.
Tried to get a tax stamp for an SBR lately? The wait had gotten up to a year before the plan-demic.
Got my SBR stamp last week. Took 4 days.
PSA is working on the Krinkov in 300 blackout.
Im glad people are talking about the psa krinkov. 'Waiting until the 7.62x39 krinkov comes out!
Well... I love my Ruger American bolt gun in 7.62x39, my PTR32 is fun, and a tack driver, SKS, are great for plinking, AK, RPK, classic rock slingers, my Rock River X-1, super accurate, PSA LAR47, is fun and affordable...
I personally don't want 300bo. Im heavy in x39, and Ive been reloading it for years. I am pretty pissed Hornady stopped making 3147. The vmax replacement are a frigging rip off. I do load 110g m1 carbine bullets for light plinking, and I got an enormous buy on pulled 174g .303 that shot pretty well with sw4350. I use them in 7.62x54r too, but with Buffalo.
I agree on the PTR 32. I like mine. I also agree that 7.62x39 makes a surprisingly good bolt gun cartridge. I have a CZ 527 and a CZ 600 Trail in that cartridge that are big fun with a can and the Hornady Sub-X subsonic 255gr hunting loads. The .300BO is a one-trick-pony. An AR can be loaded with subsonic pills in that caliber and that's about it.
Adding another caliber to the stockpile is a non-trivial decision. If I was already committed to 762 I would not have considered 300BO. But I had neither so went with 300 BO.
Still Jonesin' for an AK tho.... someday
Bolt guns are underrated.
@@dbmail545 how does the trail group?
I've yet to see one that can manage sub moa consistently.
@@NelsonZAPTM 👍💯👍
I know this isn’t the topic of the video but what’s your opinion on the short ATF wait times for suppressors? Is it worth getting one now if I don’t own one?
_"It's a trap!"_ *~Admiral Ackbar*
Stay classy my friend.
It has to do with the eForms being able to be processed faster. With that being said, just because several people online said it was quick for them does NOT mean your experience will be the same. A guy came into my local shop complaining because it had been 3 weeks and his suppressor still hadn't been approved (like the shop owner has any control over that). So don't be surprised if that wait time shoots right back up.
Even without short wait times it’s worth getting one
I reload all my ak ammo why i stock piled it up lol
I don't mind the schill for 300 blk. I've grown to love the round. Another pro to it is so many people leave their 223 brass at the range making it really cheap to reload! That with 308 bullets around a nickle or so on a good day you can reload 300blk for about a quarter.
It's hard to make it cheaper than recycled brass and 147fmj. Unless you cast.
@nelsonelectrical1972 that's exactly what I use! Lol
@@NelsonZAPTM I do love the Lee 230gr mold for 300 blk. I’ve even taken some game with it, but the holes it makes are tiny
Great timing for this video , I just ordered a POF .300 pistol. Thanks for giving me the confidence I made a good decision
Even if a few years from now 7.62x39 actually cost more than .300blk it would cost me way way more in the long run to switch now. The initial cost of the .300blk rifles and ammo would buy a lot of 7.62x39 ammo, even if it was .10 cents a round more. It’s kind of the same argument switching to a EV vehicle. No matter how expensive gas gets it will be less money out of my pockets yearly if I just put gas into the vehicle that I already have paid for. Same for the ammo.
@elliottbutts153 PSA has a great sale on 300 blackout uppers right now 3.28.24. Add that upper to your lower and you’re good to go. You can get a complete kit for $400 minus the lower.
@@ClinttheGreat
$400 is almost another case of 7.62x39. Then another $500+ for just a case of .300blk. Then I only have 1 case of it.
So for the $900 I’d rather just buy 2 more cases of 7.62x39 to feed the several rifles I already have. 🤷🏻♂️
Agreed on both things
@@elliottbutts153 Oh, I totally get your point, and I’m actually buying up 7.62x39 ammo from friends that are switching to 300 blackout. I was just pointing out that 300 blackout rifles can be had for cheap, especially if you just get an upper. PSA has the 16” 300 upper for $229.
Plus side with ar, you can have 2 guns in 1, just switch uppers. Try that with an ak
Lets see some ballistics gel and meat test next.
Too funny.
Only took you [Tim] roughly five minutes to flex yet another MCX-Spear into the mix.
Classic Timothy. Never change brother.
Stay classy my friend.
Too bad Sig is overpriced trash. The spear LT is only as good as it is because it's the 4th gen of the MCX and they HAD to get it ready for it's date with DoD. They have anted the MCX to be a military contract gun for a long time. The Spear just got their foot in the door.
Tims like the kid at school who was popular because he had all the Star Wars figures, and the Millennium Falcon.
Another great video
Excellent review
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............ so my 9 cents a round 7.62X39 has, like gold, increased in value?
I have sealed spam cans of 7n6 that have at least quadrupled in value. 15 cent per round when purchased. More like 80 cent per round for new Azeri 5.45x39 steel-cased ammo now.
😂
If our government wasn’t so petty, we wouldn’t have to replace them
I have an idea about what to replace...
Government will always be petty even at its best.
@@burleydad our ancestors would’ve been chucking tea in the harbor by now
Is their a third option for presidential candidates? That would be nice.
Why not "Buy American" go 300blk and support that?
10" barrel 300 Blackout (110 grain) will give you the same if not better performance of 16" barrel 5.56 (55 grain) and still be able to go subsonic (with 220 grain ammo). Anything longer than 10" barrel 300 BO won't be subsonic and approaches AK ballistics but not quite the same, so might as well stick with 7.62 x 39mm.
Great video! Thank you brother!
My first AR was 300 blk... I have no AK, not really interested in one, at least not at current pricing... I won't pay $600- 1200 for rifles actually worth $300- 600... and with ammo for them, costing more than 223... AK 's just don't make economic sense for new to platform... If I had gotten one 7- 10 years ago, when they were more realistically priced closer to actual value, or if we were able to get ammo at the old $.15 per round or less pricing, it might make sense.
Have Both But Love 300BO 16" 125Grain
I've never put anything other than subs through mine, but love it all the same.
I really appreciate the video! I didn't realize how versatile 300 hush hush is and how the price is currently not far away if if not equivalent to 7.62x39.
Rate of twist is important. The 7.62x39 does have slightly more power in its supersonic loads but my 1 in10 twist AR upper in 7.62x39 won't stabilize 220 grain subsonics. Most 300 blackout barrels have a faster rate of twist such as 1 in 8 and that, IMO, makes 300 blk a better choice for someone who wants to shoot subsonic suppressed.
Another thing to think about that wasn't mentioned in the video is the danger of having a 300 blk super sonic round getting chambered and fired in a 5.56 rifle. Gotta be careful not to let that happen.
Why not have both
I mean all three: 5.56, 300 blk and 7.62x39
You forgot Gods caliber, 308.
I hate 300blk cause it still more expensive then 7.62x39 without any advantage and you can't blow up your weapon with it. Plus AK mags which are becoming like AR Mags are still much better with the full curve.
With one ar lower receiver and bcg i can get 223, 300 bo super, and 300 bo subs, thats great versatility everything from efficient and quiet cqb to mid range power and long range accuracy. I think this gives the ar lots of value and reason to have one, practically 3 weapons with one , cant beat that when the uppers really dont even cost that much.
The 300 black is the best of it kind in subsonic options. And in opinion won’t be replaceable for that any time soon.
The AK47 in all its variances is gonna be around as long as the 1911. The 1911 has been around for 0ver 100 years and its still being produced with upgrades and all kinds of new bells and whistles. Yes the AK is harder to modernize and install upgrades compared to the AR15 but thats part of it. The 7.62x39 cartridge isn’t going away any time soon. Just my opinion.
It is. But how many 1911 you seen outside States?
@@vladimirpecherskiy1910thats because not all countries can obtain such handguns, heck theyll copy them if they have to, or anything similar like a Hi Power or a Spain-made Stars pistol
@@noahboat580No, not really. First of all - because people outside of States do not care for 45 caliber. That probably biggest reason 1911 did not spread around that much. And now not many people outside US seen that gun in hands of grandpa. It is not part of their tradition and realistically that way outdated gun from practical standpoint. Sane - with AK, granted to a lesser degree.
Their are more Ak-47's in the world than AR-15s. They have completed with each other for years as the two top platforms to buy because of ammunition in the billions. It's not going anywhere.
It would make sense to use brass 762x39 if you're going to have an equal comparison
Great video. Thanks.
I wish that you had also mentioned accuracy of the two calibers.
Jim Fuller recently said in an interview that it’s difficult to make 300blk operate an AK properly. Difference in pressure curve and something else I think.
Was that the Colion interview?
@@ExtremelyAverageMan Yes
It's interesting because Sig has made a 556 in 300AAC that works but is expensive AF. So hopefully there is hope for an AK in 300AAC.
@@0megaJB All of the Sigs I'm aware of are still basically ARs at heart, which is what 300blk was developed to work on. Different gas system, springs, bolt weight and all that on the AK makes it a different recipe apparently. Also, what Jim Fuller considers "correct" is probably a pretty high bar, but if he says it *can* be done, I believe him. I wonder at what cost though.
@@twistedfocus The Sig 55x is closer to an AK with a short and long stoke gas piston and rotating bolt. I'm not sure what their secret sauce is except a starting price of $3500
As a reloaded, 300 blk gives you so much versatility over x39. Absolutely love the cartridge. I love my SKSs, was raised with them. But 300blk fulfills so many niches
Good stuff, I think you’re on point.
I've chrono'd .300BO with 108 and 110 grain loads at over 2,400 feet per second (Ruag, AAC vmax & AAC black tip loads) out of a 14.5" AR, and that is definitely comparable (quite closely) to 7.62x39 AK muzzle velocity and energy. I consider them to be in the same intermediate 30 cal family, along with the 30-30 on the big end of that spectrum.
Ak vs AR is a much bigger contrast in my mind than their respective 30cal cartridges today.
200 dollar wolf 1000 rounds those were the days
Back in Y2K, I noticed that ammo prices were low and hadn't changed in years.
You could even get 303 surplus Brit for less than a penny.
I love being a Fudd and remembering the before times.
Ammo Squared sounds like a a scam or FTX situation waiting to happen.
300 blk is so versatile, smaller, uses available mags, I love it.
I can appreciate your choice of "pointer" for the close-up shot of both rounds. 😂
I wonder how it would've influenced small arms development of NATO if during WW2 the .30 Carbine cartridge had been developed as a design identical to the .300 Blackout cartridge?
basicly 8mm kurz. wasn't .30 carbine meant to replace a pistol/smg rather than a larger rifle caliber?
Have you ever actually hunted with any subsonic cartridge with its rainbow-like trajectory and max range of 150m? Subsonic cartridges with suppressors were tried in WWII by the Soviets and they were anything but game changers.
@@dbmail545300BLK also has equal if not better balistic performance in supersonic loadings, it's not just a subsonic round.
@@dbmail545, I have. It was pretty easy to adapt honestly. Spend a day at the range shooting at different targets at different distances and learn your mill dots. Then, go hunting. That's about it.
I have wondered the exact same thing
A 7.5" AR10 is still moving 100fps faster than a 16" 7.62x39 🤯
Bigger fireball too.
Hooray!
A short barrel ak in 300blkout would be amazing as long as it has the 1:5 twist barrel, that’s the only reason I don’t have a PSA jakl. I shoot sub 300 and the fast twist really makes a difference so PSA if you come out with this 300 AK even if it’s $1-200 more please do the fast twist
It's definitely a loading thing as mentioned. If we're talking just fun, it's hard to beat 300 blackout. It's a modern 30-30. Run supers for reg. AK type power. Run subs for quiet fun. 95% of the time, i just shoot subs. Now the 8.6mm out of new calibers is def interesting. It won't be as flexible as the blackout but those ultra heavy subs, yeah they sound like a blast.
300 blackout is a FANTASTIC cartridge.
You call pistol vs rifle ballistics a wash? IDTS, speed is power. E. = 1/2 m *v2 notice that velocity is squared.
Unfortunately, you forgot to mention the 7.62x39 255 grain SUB Hornady. It has a considerable ballistic advantage over the 300 BLK SUB ammunition.
300 blk comes in weights up to 220 gr. 255 vs 220 isn’t much different
300blk goes higher than 220gr, you just don't find it in loaded ammo but there are plenty of 308 bullets out there that are 230gr or heavier out there that work. I think the heaviest 300blk I've seen is 245gr. They were hand loads.
Energy within a given round has an inverse correlation with bullet mass. This means, to achieve the optimal ballistics, you want to get as light and fast as possible without exceeding subsonic speeds.
Keep in mind bullet speed increases with barrel length.
The reason that Hornady 255 gr Sub-X is so heavy is because it's designed to achieve optimal subsonic performance out of a 20in barrel. Where as most 220 blk ammo is optimized for barrels 16in or shorter. Hornady's 300 Blackout 190 gr Sub-X will certainly ballistically out perform that round out of a 16in barrel or shorter.
@@SimplestUsernameRespectfully: You might want to read up on ballistics and reconsider that comment.
you also forgot to mention that you need a custom barrel to use it without fear of a baffle strike. also to get any decent accuracy. The AK was never designed to be suppressed. Even with the weight difference, you can get 220 so quiet that all you hear is the action run and the paper tear on the target, while still being able to defeat soft armor at 50 yards.
Thank you for responding to your viewers and comments!
Thank you so much for this video. I have been a die hard AK fan since the late 80's. So much so that my Belgian milled receiver AK was in my Patrol car for most of my 30 years in Law Enforcement. However, over the last several years I have come to appreciate the versatility of the 300 Blackout.
I am really not getting why would people want to get AK over AR in States. Only reason to choose AK - price and that is not so now. So no reasons.
A few reasons,
1. We prefer guns with charging handles that are designed to be used by humans. NOBODY likes the AR charging handle. Which is why there is such a ridiculous aftermarket just for charging handles and even plenty of side-charging options.
2. AK magazines are a "Buy Once" item that generally lasts as long as the gun itself. Unlike AR magazines.
3. "Rock-N-Lock" is slower than "Straight-In", but it is more secure. You're never going to over-insert an AK magazine and bent the feed lips. Or under insert it and have the magazine fall out after the first shot. The magazine is either in correctly or it is not.
@@Crosshair84Well, I can understand personal preferences, no matter what those base on. But that personal preferences - not advantages in general. And pretty minor from whatever angle you would look.
I mean if somebody particularly do not like AR - there are platy of other guns. One of which - AK. But just one of those many.
@@Crosshair84 The AK was designed for illiterate cannon fodder serfs. WE are not that. WE can choose better weapons.
@@ExpatriotSilencersother countries fight real wars in freezing conditions. The AR is great for the US army which only picks on the serfs you talk about. Then the serfs kick us out and the US comes home and says that “well, our guns are more modular.” The AK is for grind it out wars against any army. There are advantages to the AK for real armies
@@1973vegas The US military doesn't lose battles. They lose wars or conflicts due to politics, which has nothing to do with weapons design. Your argument is not relevant.
I love my 300 blk out maxim defense pdx. Hopefully when the aft allows me to protect my hearing it will be even sweeter
Thanks Tim for this video. I've never owned an ak but considered it many times. Since I'm not so invested in the x39 round, getting a 300 bk upper makes more sense financially for me. But like others have said, there are so many people that do run that caliber should make manufacturers key in on it and start US production.
Geez, plenty of 7.62x39 ammo coming lol and plenty here in the states. What jacked up 7.62x39 ammo was no one could find 556 ammo back during pandemic. Telammo sound familiar Tulammo lol same import different name that’s all. Ak’s went from $500 to $1500 and so did ammo it’s how it is.Questionable mags lol, geez once again I own multiple PWS platforms that run those C-products 28 rounders and I know one of those mags have 6,000+ rounds through it and 100% lol.
Tula and tella is completely different ammo. They just sound similar.
Tela and Tula are completely different. Tela is made in Azerbaijan, is corrosively primed and new made steel-cased 5.45x39 is available from them though nowhere near as cheap as the pre-ban Russian ammo.
Tela ammo online is definitely helping keep 7.62x39 affordable and a lot of yugo m67 is coming in right now
M67 on ammo seek is about $8 for 15 rounds
Tela ammo is like $8 for 20 now
I’d stock up
Tela has been tested and is corrosively primed. Much better is the non-corrosive reloadable ammo from PPU, Igman and S&B.
I am a huge fan of .300BLK, and even more so now that the prices have been coming down. I still love my AK's, but for the very reasons you mentioned, I have been leaning more and more towards my .300BLK guns.
My answer is to "buy a couple" of AR lowers and then add uppers in calibers based upon ammo availability and price, this way you can adjust as ammo availability and prices change..
Well Said
✌🏾
As a recent dealer noted, "You know why they come up with more cartridges? -To sell more guns." -On *might* argue reliability, but those Duramags are as flawless as any, by all accounts. (In 7.63x39)
I agree. I have 3 uppers in 7.62x39, and have built a couple for friends. Using the stainless duramags - absolutely zero feeding issues with 10,20, and 28 rounders. Haven't tried the 30s.
Most people I see having problems are using ASC or ProMags.
Meanwhile, there's only couple billion rounds of 5.56 on the market.
Ok.... What's your point?
Missed a bunch of points such as AK barrels typically have concentric threading issues on their barrels. Not the case with American made barrels. Also that each cartridge can be shot out of bolt action, piston, DI systems. Not sure how many adjustable gas systems are available for the AK platform either where AR platforms can have adjust buffer weights, buffer springs, adjustable gas blocks, adjustable gas bolts... It all boils down to customization for 300blk enabling an incredibly versatile cartridge. You stated 300blk projectile weights up to 180gr, I believe you can get between 110gr and 260gr projectiles.
Thank you MAC!
7.62x39 is 100fps more, that's not a wash, that's 4 inches of barrel length or increased power/range, however you want to look at it. 7.62x39 is still cheaper, granted 300blk subsonics are cheaper than 7.62x39 subsonic, however, hornady has 255gr subs, which beat out the weight of the 220gr 300blk. So to me, 7.62x39 wins, however... if you aren't into ak, i think 300blk is better. Go with what works best for your use case.
Sierra used to manufacture a 240 grain bullet, no idea why they stop.
255 Sub-X sucks just like the .300 blk 190gr. They don't expand reliably and are basically a worse version of JHP pistol bullets. If you want good subsonic self defense ammo, you'll be paying way more for solid copper expanding projectiles.
First guy to mention : use what works best for you ! Thanks big buddy -
currently they are both about 60cpr. That's cheap steel cased 7.62x39, vs brass 300blk of the same weight. 300blk gets within 100fps with a much shorter barrel. 220gr 300blk subs can get so quiet you only hear the action run while still being able to penetrate soft armor. You really need an aftermarket barrel if you want to shoot an AK with a can and not rusk a baffle strike, and the platform was never designed to use one. Either way, you're giving up a whole lot less to get a whole lot more more using 300blk over 7.62AK.
@Mitsurugi2424 ammoseek shows 7.62x39 at 42cpr, 300blk at 49cpr. 300blk is 100fps less, generally, with both having 16 inch barrels. Not all ak are bad suppressed, just need some adjustable gas and make sure it's all concentric. Most modern stuff is all good on those fronts. If you like 300blk, that's all good, I do too. There are no special properties that make it any quieter than a suppressed 7.62x39 of similar weight and speed, assuming similar operating systems.
I'm an AK guy for over 20 years. I love the 7.62x39 cartridge above all others. But my HD gun is a 300bo sbr.
why a subsonic (I'm guessing) 300blk for home defense and not a 45ACP?
Subsonic 300blk traded diameter against 45ACP for a flatter trajectory. Makes a lot of sense in military application. But that doesn't come into play inside of a house. Unless the property is a farm of sorts.
@AlexN2022 If you buy high end ammo, it's miles better than .45 ACP hollowpoints.
Maker 220gr bullets are devastating.
@EvilWiffles no subsonic rounds are devastating.....
@@EvilWiffles same speed, same mass, narrower diameter, but it's miles better? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
By the way, for pistol velocities, the 2016/17 Joint Agency Ballistics Test showed that Lehigh fluted bullets (in Underwood loading, as tested) > hollow points.
More importantly, it proved that gel performance translates to flesh for this type of bullet, so we can expect the same to be true for rifles as well. Basically, hollow points are out in the general case.
@AlexN2022 just look into Maker bullets and you'll understand. Fast twist rate makes the peddles stay open wider. They open much wider than a standard .45 HP round in general and handle barriers much more effectively. Do your research.
These Maker 220gr projectiles are longer than the case it sits in. Longer projectile = wider expansion.
The way things are going with the sanctions and the fact that 300BLK is becoming more mainstream. AKs might become safe queens.
Somewhat unrelated, but PSA was showing 9x39mm as an expected chambering for their VUK rifle at SHOT show. I wonder if a VSS clone is in the works at PSA.
That would be crazy coool
My only problem with 300Blk is the 5.56 chamber problem. The fact that it will "headspace" off the ogive is one of the biggest oversights in modern firearm design. The fact that is was designed to work in the exact same firearms (often with the exact same parts, save for the barrel) and you have a recipe for Kabooms.
Yes yes, there is the contingent of people whose solution is "just don't make a mistake!", but that is not a *real* solution, that is a cop-out for bad design. Proper design is robust against mistakes and fails in a safe manner when one is made. If you think this is a viable solution ask yourself if you would be willing to fly on an airplane with all the warnings and pilot aids removed. It should still be totally safe if no one makes a mistake right?
If I accidentally mix up *any other ammo* it will jam up and fail to feed, not perfectly headspace, fire and blow up the gun (and that is assuming I could even successfully cram it into the feed device in the first place). Even other AR specific cartridges are not similar enough to feed, chamber and headspace in an incorrect gun. Only the 300Blk has this issue.
I know there is no fixing it now, but it is something to be mindful of as we move forward in the industry. And it is also something to be mindful of if you plan on shooting both cartridges (or being around people who shoot the other).
Mark your uppers, check your mags. While it's a valid complaint, it's like getting mad you can put the wrong fuel type in your car and that the pumps have the 2 types side by side.
It's not an error but intentional calculated business decision - safety is sacrificed to allow civilian shooters to save a couple of hundred bucks on magazines and AR lowers. And it worked
Similar issue has been around for decades in the Shotgun world if you mix 20 gauge with 12 or have a squib in an action pistol match. Bad things can happen if you aren't paying attention.
Unless one wants to hang a lot of stuff off the rifle (and even then, AK lets you do that these days, just not the classic variant), what is exactly the modernity of the AR that the AK lags behind?
The AR is more ergonomic at the cost of being more easily rendered completely non-functional by ice and dirt. That's it.
The only real area where AR shines is being able to swap uppers and therefore calibers. Which is very cool, but at the end of the day you still have one rifle, or you buy multiple lowers.
Last round bolt hold open.
Non-reciprocating CH.
True free-float barrels.
Built-in sight rail.
Aperture sights.
2-Stage trigger options.
Much simplified headspacing.
Spare parts compatibility with pretty much every DI AR rifle produced 1960 to present.
Standardized muzzle thread pitch.
Corrosion resistant treatments and coatings.
@@Fenster21 conversation!
Last round bolt hold open - a choice, not an advantage. Convenient, but lets dirt in.
Non-reciprocating CH - again, a choice. Not really that convenient, and when the bolt is really stuck, the handle is of little use. With AK, you bang the handle against a rock. You can always unlock an AK, not so with AR
True free-float barrels - yes, that's good. But for an assault rifle irrelevant.
Built-in sight rail - how's that better than a rail on the front guard? Or a side rail mount? A rail is a rail.
Aperture sights - my eyes like the AK style better, but we all run optics these days anyway, so irrelevant
2-Stage trigger options - there are trigger options for AK as well
Much simplified headspacing - how? I've pressed AK barrels, didn't find headspacing complicated
Spare parts compatibility with pretty much every DI AR rifle produced 1960 to present - AKs are part compatible about same as ARs. You can shop "AKM parts" and you'll be all set, unless you're building a specific model
Standardized muzzle thread pitch - in US market. It's an advantage, but it's not "more modern". Someplace else, AK's threads would be the standard
Corrosion resistant treatments and coatings - same as AKs, obviously
@@AlexN2022
TL;DR The AK is very good, but the AR is objectively superior.
- Last round bolt hold open is THE standard for modern combat weapons. Straight up. It allows for instant feedback that your weapon is empty and allows for faster reloads.
- Non reciprocating charging handles mean you can design the weapon without worrying about a charging handle slot, meaning you can avoid things like injury from the handle smacking your hand during cycling and better seal the weapons system.
- Free floated rails are an objectively superior method of adding handguards to firearms. It means any force applied to that handguard DO NOT transfer to the barrel, and therefore the accuracy is more consistent. Also free floated barrels tend to shoot better than non free floated. Therefore it is absolutely relevant for an assault rifle.
- There's a reason why AR flat top rails became the standard and how every other NATO weapon copies that standard. Only AKs and similar are forced to use other methods of attaching optics to the weapon. The Russians have learned the hard way via the AK 12 that the top cover is a BAD spot to mount rails, and gas tube rails will destroy heat sensitive optics with extended fire, letalone that not all gas tubes are rock solid when locked. Neither issue is present on Flat top AR uppers. For AKs, the Side rail is still the most practical option for mounting optics, but you still need a seperate part to do so. AR uppers? just slap an optic on it directly. Done. NEXT!
- Aperture sights are 100% superior to Notch sights. Straight up. And I LIKE AK sights. But you are right, optics are the standard so it doesn't matter anyway.
- No argument there on 2 stage triggers. Both AKs and ARs have plenty of options there.
- Which sounds easier to headspace: A barrel to trunnion relationship which requires a hydraulic press and attention to detail to headspace the bolt to the trunion and barrel properly before you drill the barrel hole and pin it in place? or measuring the gap between the barrel and threaded barrel extension for headspace, and then just drop that barrel into an upper and then thread it on via a barrel nut? The ARs method of barrel attachment to the Upper is 100% superior to any AK variant. It doesn't need large hydraulic presses to install (Literally just a vice, barrel nut wrench and torque wrench are all one needs) and is a huge part of the reason why they are so easily adaptable to more modern advances, especially free floated handguards.
You're right about spare parts, until you have to hand fit parts from other rifles. You can't just drop in a random AKM bolt into another AKM without checking the headspace and fitting the bolt to the trunion first like you can an AR-15 BCG. AR-15 parts are mostly drop in with no fitting required. Most combloc AK parts will require fitting (especially bolts, furniture, gas tubes etc), doubly so if the parts are from countries that intentionally went to a different standard (China, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria etc). Also in north america, there will be PLENTY of AR parts lying around in SHTF, including from police rifles and military weapons. The same can be said for the AK in The old world, especially russia, southeast asia and africa.
The muzzle threading goes beyond just the thread standard (Which for 99.8% of ARs is 1/2x28, while for AKs , 14x1LH and 1x28mm are the norm); it also has to do with concentricity. Most combloc made guns didn't give a rats ass about concentricity, as all they were concerned about is making sure the loosely fitted muzzle devices could thread on and be held in place with a spring loaded detent, vs a truly concentric suppressor setup like what ARs can easily do. In other words, ARs are superior for suppression purposes, and not just because of better thread concentricity. Ever hear of AK pop?
These days, ARs are getting much more advanced corrosion resistant finishes, like ceracote and the like. While AKs are usually stuck between blued, parkerized, and painted over parkerized, unless it's a US made AK, where most use a black oxide or ceracote type finish. Theoretically, both should be able to take any finish.
@AlexN2022 keep coping. I own an actual Russian AK BTW.
Lrbho is literally a life-saving feature. Imagine lining up your shot, pull trigger, click no bang. Also AKs have a gigantic hole in the side way larger than an AR when the safety is off.
You don't need to buy extra junk to mount a sight on an AR, or remove the sight to clean the gun.
There are multiple style AK extractors, bolt tail diameters, and gas tube lengths depending where and when your AK was made. And try finding actual Russian parts these days.
And AKs come in park or paint, no actual inherently corrosion resistant coatings unless you buy PSA or KUSA cumsoomer garbage.
@@Fenster21
"Lrbho is literally a life-saving feature" - no it isn't. It's not a round counter, nor is it even designed to be in line of sight. You'll miss your bolt locking back just as easily as you miss your bolt slamming forward empty. A mag with a window is the feature you're looking for, not bolt hold open.
Keeping sand from getting on the locking lugs though - that *is* a life saving feature. With dirt on the lugs, the rifle is dead.
"Also AKs have a gigantic hole in the side" - that hole doesn't lead to where it matters, but a locked back bolt on the AR does. There's just no question that the AK is more tolerant of most commonly found dirt, and the absence of lrbho is a part of that.
"You don't need to buy extra junk to mount a sight on an AR" - yes you do. You buy all sort of raisers and what not. The whole forward heat guard is one big piece of "junk" that you buy on an AR.
"There are multiple style AK extractors" - sure, the AK has been made by many countries in many incompatible variants. What's your point re: modernity of the design? I don't follow. You won't be exchanging parts between Colt AR, HK416, and Sig Rattler either.
"AKs come in park or paint," - AKs come in whatever you want to buy them in. Most people want a classic looking cheap AK, so that's what most makers sell. Not a modernity issue.
I went for the 300 blk because of reloading and use of standard bolts and magazines. 😊
I think the golden age of 7.62x39 is over. It used to be super cheap - always available and you could also get decently cheap surp rifles to shoot it in. (rip SKS) It is still a valid caliber and it still a blast to shoot, however in this day and age it's so easy to build a .300 blackout AR on the cheap, or really build one exactly the way you want it. With parts, upgrades and all sorts of other things and the price of ammo starting to come down .300 blackout is only going to get better.
7.62 soviet wins against 300blk when it comes to hard targets...Still a very cool round
Nah, You can get 300blk loaded with 167gr AP 308 bullets the military uses in 308 rifles.
7.62x39 not going anywhere lol.
It's already going. It's just not gone yet.
@@ShepherdsSheepdog Lol keep believing that lol. Is the price up yea that was expected but supply had never slowed down, this ammo will always have a place and always available period. Does 300 blk have more options of course but really how many options do you really need?
Yeah, most 3rd world and commie block countries use 7.62x39, don't see it leaving anytime soon. Only happens in the US because we Americans are as fickle as the news cycle.....on to the "next best thing"....every 24 hours.
Not with reloadable 7.62x39 from PPU, Igman and S&B.
It definitely is. And it’s only getting more expensive and eventually they will ban the import of ammo. It’s the easiest thing for any anti gun President to do.
Thanks for this video Mac!
Have you considered filing or cutting some shallow V's into the front edge of your shooting bench table top to keep the rifles you lean up against the table edge from sliding away and falling?
I've been waiting for .300BLK to become more affordable. Seems like a pretty versatile cartridge.
An Ak has more stamina.
Oh yeah replace it... You know cuz all that surplus 300 blackout from all the EX Soviet countries.. all those AKs in surplus rifles chambered in it.. yep totally replacing it
You’re neglecting the fact that the US has been losing more and more imports for years now, guns and ammo included. The pool is getting smaller and there’s no relief in sight for the US market.