Scott Carlon In out family we have now 3 Rohloff bikes, the oldest for almost 10 years on traditional trecking/travel bikes and the newest is a Riese & Müller Load 75 cargo bike. they are all great. so for a road bike and a competition mountain bike the weight might be a thing. for an ebike it’s essentially meaningless and on my travel bike I don’t notice it either. either way it is really worth every penny as there has not ever been anything wrong with it despite ZERO maintenance for almost 10 years (might have been 1 or 2 oilchanges over the years). it just always works, always has the same efficiency, no adjustments or repairs of any kind needed. ever. our cargo bike is actually equipped with the bosch motor and the e-rohloff coupled with a cdx belt, so the same set up as the bike in the video. it’s just the most amazing drive train you can have on a bike. it’s just absolutely amazing!
You and Chris really work well together. Chris is so full of good info and relates well in his presentation. Court your fee is well deserved beyond your expenses since your reviews result in sales. This happens based on your unbiased reviews, listing the good and the bad of what you review. When I finally buy an ebike, I now know what questions to ask and what to look for. Thanks for your info!!!
I have always liked the Rohloff speed hubs, but just can't get myself to pay that much money for it, even though I have seen the schematics and was really impressed with the craftsmanship. I am a sucker for innovative machinery.
As he says in the video, sure it's pricey but considering the maintenance on derailleur systems both what it costs and how much time it takes, the Rohloff just might be a winner after all if you use the bike long enough.
I think they start around the high hundreds for just the hub and shifter. Then you have to get a wheel and spokes and nipples and lace it or have it laced.
The hub's about 1k here in Germany. Bought one three years ago with a full chain gard. Almost no more maintainance needed, even when cycling in worst weather conditions. Chainrings and chains last much, much longer... I never regretted buying the Rohloff and almost never use ride one of my other bikes in bad weather condition.
Buy bafang motor, make your own battery. I just bought a great used Rohloff from ebay in the UK for 447 dollars. 26$ for shipping. Lunacycle dotcom is who l use for parts and great trick accessories. RUclips has zillion bafang vids. My friend made me a 52v backpack battery. Like a huge history book in 7 th grade, remember?
Denham has ridden around the world in all kinds of VERY crazy, DANGEROUS, not bike friendly places for 10 years for hundreds of thousand miles and is still doing this with a rohlof hub and belt drive. he has never had to change it. his hub and drive are still very much in good shape and could last 10 years or more.This is just the beginning.
That is very cool. As I look at that bike I wonder at what point the buying public will push back against heavy bikes. Where is the line I wonder. For me, the maximum I can load on a bus rack is 55 lbs. and the maximum that Amtrak takes is 50 lbs. The weight is not much of an issue at train stations where you roll on, but at a lot of them you have to lift the bike over your head basically to the train baggage person. It's been my experience they're not happy about shuffling heavy ebikes. Of course not everyone goes multi-modal but I do. The automatic downshift is super cool.
I was on the market for a new bike earlier this year, I could buy a 50# electric bike or a 25# conventional road bike. I live in an apartment building on the 3rd floor, it had to be the road bike. I would have preferred electric but I couldn't justify it.
Good point. I have a 53 lb. Haibike (sans battery) and had to switch to bike only from multi-modal. It's technically light enough to use the bus, but I can't lift it one-handed to be able to secure it at the same time...plus it's expensive enough that I'm not willing to take the risk (the transit agency declares that we use at our own risk). Thankfully I prefer not waiting for busses anyway and the full commute is doable with assist (all uphill going home). I'm excited for the weight to come down as components decrease in cost.
Re: bus rack risk. As it turns out the company that makes most of the transit bus racks nationally is about 8 miles from my home. I emailed them with a video of my ebike swaying in a bus rack going down the freeway. They said some racks are designed to collapse in the event of collision and in those the bikes do sway. Other racks that are not built to collapse do not sway. I have now found this to be true as Metro Transit and Sound Transit use the different racks. They said my bike at 54 lbs. is quite safe but taking off the battery is even better. It's rear-rack mounted and raises the center of gravity. I couldn't lift my bike with one hand either; I lift it with both, place it in the rails, then balance it with one hand and secure it with the other. One driver suggested I lock it though as he's seen thieves grab bikes from the rack. That's another matter entirely though.
You should check out the Koga E-World traveller with Bosch CX - Rohloff e14. Around 53 lbs (batterie included) depending on how you configure the bike.
Awesome as always, great information, love the design of the R&M bikes they scream quality and combined with the rohloff you're pretty much guaranteed alot of trouble free miles
Sure thing! I'll be posting a full review of the R&M Nevo in the coming days. It's a sweet bike, and the Rohloff E-14 is one of the drivetrain options, probably my favorite :)
I love my Rohloff. It works like a charm, needs no maintainance and deserves so much more popularity. Take a look at the Hebie Chainglider. Combined with the Rohloff, you need almost no maintainance even in very bad weather conditions.
It looks awesome. Just a thing of beauty to look at and also in the precision engineering. I definitely noticed the thing with the nuvinci where it doesn’t really want to let you shift under much load. But I learned to stop peddling or time it just right as Chris mentioned to get a smooth shift. I’d much rather manage that and be able to shift at standstill than the opposite situation with the derailleur system. The range on the nuvinci n380 is good. I did run out of gears once on a long, steep climb while in turbo mode, so on a really extreme incline the extra range of the rohloff would be handy for sure. With the nuvinci you would have to grind a bit more where you could find your favourite cadence on the rohloff no matter how steep. The auto-downshift and having that positive feeling of actual gears rather than just twisting and constantly making micro-adjustments I think are the other two big attractions of the E-14.
Hey Court, I got one of the first ELOM 505 Ti Rohloff E14 titanium fatbike with the new Bosch, Rohloff and belt drive. It is such an awesome bike. Whenever you are in the SF bay area again you can come by and check it out.
Nice review guys and very well done as usual. Great team here! For the future of Ebikes in general, I personally would like to get away from the heavier models in hopes of the ultimate E-bike that comes in at approx 35lbs with all of the bells and whistles as a class 3. Perhaps we will see this in a commuter as well as an EMTB in the coming years of evolving tech. For me, being I am a smaller person, would be a better fit. Heavier hardware all around probably would be better for a larger/stronger rider to handle IMO. Cheers!
Have both pinion and rolhoff. Pinion is smooth and 18 speeds. Gates belts is the North American dealer for pinion. The rolhoff is needed for rear set-ups.
I reviewed a Pinion ebike in Europe from Desiknio but they never paid my service fee... so I moved on to other models. That was an expensive and difficult trip! Anyway, it's a cool product. The only trade-off is that it only works with hub motor ebikes. I may post the review for free sometime when my schedule clears up :)
@@ElectricBikeReview I chose for a C12 Pinion bike (Kalkhoff Endeavour) and converted it to have a hub motor and exchanged the chain for a Gates belt. I chose for a hub motor since it releases a lot of pressure from the belt..., and the 250 Watt motor continues up to 37 km/h :-)
The disadvantage of hub gears is the weight, also messes up the kinematics, and balance, but with e bike these bikes are heavier, forks, motor, so it's more balanced.
Great review of some interesting new technology, I own a LEVO and ive gotta say it's so hard to go back to a normal bike. Having said that, it is really hard to take you two seriously while wearing finger cut gloves and helmets while not on your bikes.
HI EBR i for one am delighted with this review for E bikes these speed hubs are the way to go no more derailing your gears or bending the shift or long oily chains i can only see plus plus with this set up so thank you ,paul djerassi. PS.you should raid for all your reviews so again a BIG THANK YOU paul.
I have a question about the rohloff electronic shifter. I understand that the hub is very reliable but what about the electronic shifter? How long will that last before it needs service? Also can the bike be used if the electronic shifter fails or lets say you run out of battery? Can the bike still be driven?
thank you very much!!!! I am watching the Nevo Nuvinci for several months now and recently learned through one of your videos about Rohloff. There's a 1200 € difference in price between both. should try Nevo with Rohloff. The next important is, when will R&M start deliver Nevo with Kiox display.
Great question on the Kiox availability. I just filmed a Nevo review with Chris yesterday and hope to publish soon... it's an awesome ebike, and I really like the Rohloff on it. It's the closest internally geared hub to a cassette/derailleur feel that I have tested so far
These bikes look sweet, but unfortunately way out of my price range. Not to brag or anything but I've managed to build a custom rear hub, full suspension, 1000w ebike for about $300, thing is rad, does great in my Colorado mnts. A huge part was I was lucky enough to score a santa cruz super light bike at a thrift store for $8. However I am at this point using sealed lead acid 48v battery pack which honestly does suck, but it's enough to get me going. I am in the process of building a 30ah 48v lithium ion pack from salvaged laptop batteries. Yes it's a long tedious process but once done I will triple my range and loose weight at the same time. I'm a firm believer and proud member of the ebike revolution!
Do you really know what you are doing with the lithium batteries? Thats a huge pack to build. If you get wonky cells you could have chestnuts roasting over and open fire. Be safe. Might be worth it to save up the money and buy something made by luna.
I have 42v 15.4Ah battery, get me 15-30 miles here in England depending mostly on weather, they hate the cold same as any battery, think I'll heat mine with an electric usb 5v dog blanket, it's always grey and cold lmao 😎🙋♂️🇬🇧
I've just ordered a Pletscher kickstand for my bike because the new forks threw off the geometry meaning the stand that came with the bike was too short, funny seeing one on the bike you were reviewing. Kinda spooky that I'm fitting parts I'm seeing on your reviews Court, lol. It looks like I might be able to fit that NX 1x12 groupset I was asking about as well, fingers crossed, I really want that range.
I LOVE that kickstand... highly adjustable and sturdy, good choice. Sounds like your ebike project is coming along well, did you see the extra SRAM video from Interbike Outdoor Demo Day? I filmed that just for you Tony :D
Very cool bike; I think I will start saving up to buy something like that. (By the way, it is not pronounced de-rail-yer - instead, it would be de-rail-er)
Theoretically the Rohloff E-14 hub could shift gears automatically - similar to the former NuVinci H-Sync. Do you know if there are plans to realize automatic shifting through a software update in the future?
tanastaling the problem with the rohloff is that is uses gears, and an auto shift would have to be precise, and require adjustment. nuvinci is always engaged making the shifting seamless and smooth.
After watching dozens of your videos I’m happy to see the speed hub featured on a Reise Müller frame with a belt drive. I think this combination is the best the in the market. Can you review of the Super Charger?
Zerode made/makes a high single pivot full suspension bike. A few years ago they made the zerode g2 with a Shimano Alfine positioned inside or right next to that high pivot. I think they had problems with the quality of the Alfine for this app. The bike had one chain from the crank to the hub positioned near that high single pivot and another chain that went from the hub to the hub in the rear wheel. It gets rid of the derailleur at the rear wheel for durability and less unsprung weight so the suspension works with greater sensitivity. It also doesn’t need a tensioner because their is no chain growth. No one , that I’m aware of, is making a high single pivot full sus emtb. Hsp full sus bikes aren’t the most efficient pedalling bikes but they pedal ok and they eat up rough terrain like nothing else, amazing. Hsp bike would be great app for an emtb and this Rohloff could be a great option to really refine the current emtb full sus systems
macspud28 with a high single pivot bike it’s basically a single pivot bike with the pivot 8-10ish inches above the bottom bracket. Those bikes have an idler pulley at the pivot or very close to it(depending on desired “anti squat”). The Rohloff would take the place of the idler pulley. Because the pivot is so high you can put the mid drive motor at the bottom bracket in any position. It’s preferable to alter the angle of the motor to get the chainstay as short as possible with high single pivot bikes. With the pivot so high in these bikes the direction of your wheel travels rearward much more than traditional suspension systems that go rearward a little bit but more so upward, so as soon as you sit on a hsp bike the suspension compresses and the the chain stay lengths immediately and then when you compress it more while riding in lengthens even more . It will grow your chainstay about 3 inches so it’s important to design it with a shorter chainstay in a static position to start. Traditionally these hsp bikes are known to just eat up rough terrain. Square edge bumps just disappear because the rear axle path goes so rearward . The down side is they haven’t been the most inspiring pedalling bikes because of the lack of anti squat . They still pedal ok nust not a ton of jump when you put the power down on the pedals. Perfect application for an e bike. Commencal bikes “supreme dh” is a great example of a successful hsp bike. It’s a 200 mm travel dh bike that’s won the World Cup dh overall this year. They are discontinuing their “freeride” bike, the 180mm travel supreme “sx”, for next year. It’s a shame they’re discontinuing it as is like to have one. I wish they’d redesign it with a motor to have it as a longer travel emtb in their line up. Pipe dream but that particular bike would seem like a perfect emtb in proper mountains
Hello Dave, Great review I was thinking about putting this on a Brompton Folding bike I think the E14 is fantastic - I just subscribe to your videos looking forward to more Vids Thanks Renee G (From Roland Corp)
@@ElectricBikeReview ive ridden off with the stand down. That first left lean is the worst feeling in the world. Then you cant figure out what happened because the stand folded and it takes you a moment to get it.
@@metamorphicorder , true! I accidentally hit a big divot (bus tires + new asphalt at some point) with mine once coming out of a left turn and had to bail into the bushes along the road. Missed the light pole, thankfully, and there were no cars behind! That would be my next ebike request--some sort of electronic recognition of the kickstand being down or auto-raising while the motor is on. In the meantime, I learned to triple check.
It seems strange that while the auto industry is embracing the mechanical simplicity of the EV, the cycle manufacturers have raced off in the opposite direction.
I dunno mate , i really do not think EV`s are anywhere near as simple as some might promote them to be :) , they are far from a toy remote control car , and do have some very expensive components . the mechanicals of a good well made conventional car are pretty well sorted these days and should last you well past 10 years without any major expenses if you have a good car , unless you buy a shit box . my conventional car has lasted 17 and still runs well . .
I have a rohloff speed hub on my big dummy with stokemonkey mid drive the speed hub was the best money I ever spent for the bike it not electronic shift but it’s really nice.
Great, that means the Bosch can be configured to have motor cutoff on shifting. Maybe, I can link the cut off to the brake lever (with sensor) so I can slightly press the brake while shifting my derailer. That's what I do with my other ebike. The Bosch automatic detection does not always provide smooth shifting and it irks me when it slams. That also prevented me from buying a Bosch ebike. If it comes with brake sensor (at least on the left side) then I may reconsider getting a Bosch. The motor is top notch compared to other brands thou.
I know this is 2yr old upload but I find it appropriate to ask here since you have touched the subject: does this mean that one could achieve higher top speed with rohloff igh comparing to 10t or 11t cassette providing the front gear is the same, same power same bike wheels etc?
Very cool! I like the camera angles of the hub a lot. Can you add this to a Bosch Performance (28 mph) Intuvia system (Haibike Xduro) and get it to work or would the shift detection be disabled?
Hi Emma! Glad you enjoyed the video, I checked about the Performance Line Speed motor compatibility and found that yes, you can mate this drivetrain with that motor and still have shift detection. Here's an example of one ebike that does: www.r-m.de/en-us/models/nevo-gt/nevo-gx-rohloff-hs-us/#F00160_050107 not sure if any Haibikes offer that right now though
This isn’t available for retrofits at the moment and it’s unclear if it will be as it will require the OEM (Haibike in this example) to reprogram the Bosch motor system.
I have a 2017 Cube Touring Pro Hybrid with a Bosch Performance Line CX Motor. I have been having issues with my Altus derailleur system and am considering upgrading to this. Any thoughts/suggestions/redirections?
The cool part about my bbshd with rohloff is that I can shift 4 to 5 gears at one time with grip shift. Just because it shifts electric doesn't make it better plus with manual shifting you can feel the hub engage before you add power that is gone with electric shifting.
The Rohloff as a great range 526%. But do you know the highest gear you can get vs a NuVinci N380 or standard Cassette? I ask since you say Rohloff allows you to go faster. I tried the NuVinci N380 on 4th Gen Riese & Müller and the highest gear was not really high enough to reach top speeds.
I have to agree that the NuVinci is tending to 'stuck' if you're trying to use it during acceleration, wasn't so during first couple of weeks, but later on... I think with my next bike I will try a Rohloff in combination with a belt drive (actually using a Gates - and I'm satisfied with it).
If you're using the original N171 then yes shifting under load isn't possible. Otherwise I've not had an issue doing it with the later models and I've got many thousands of miles of experience with NuVinci/ Enviolo hubs. Shifting during acceleration is one of my favourite things about the hubs.
I would love to have an internally geared hub system instead of the derailleur on my FLX Trail because it shifts hard & clunks into gear, it might be partially my fault the way I've adjusted it but it's a little annoying. The bike is great otherwise whisper quiet motor, nice quality feel except the dang clunks , thats what you get for $ 1900, I suppose . People often comment about the high prices of these high end bikes but if you can afford one & are into touring they are well worth it you get what you pay for in most cases, no clunky shifting .
Thanks for your honest feedback! Sometimes the powerful mid-drive motors can contribute to hard shifts like you're describing, especially if there's no shift detection. I reviewed the FLX Trail a while back, maybe you could shift smoother by tapping the brakes so the motor inhibitor switches will fire, like a manual shift detection?
Im not sure off hand what dropouts the Trail is set for. But husky bikes in TX has a rear wheel dbl wall allow 12ga spokes and laced on a sturmey archer 3spd drum. Im i think the trail has disc brakes im not sure if its hydro or mech but im pretty sure you can use the drum brake on that frame if its standard drop outs at 135mm OLD. The wheel is about 230$. I have it for my gasser, im about to install it with a shift kit. They also have a matching front wheel with drum. I have that on already. If you have hydros then you would need new brake levers with cutoffs compatible with the FLX system which is likely standard stuff. The front wheel is about 200$. Super sturdy wheels, they custom drill the hubs for 12 ga spokes. They are a bit heavier than regular wheels. But once you loose the native brakes, and cassette and mech, it will likely even out. Shouldnt effect range too much. Its a 3 speed. 1 direct 1:1 gear, one under and one over. The shifting mech isnt like the piano shifter on the shimano system its more like the speedhub but different. Its the new no in between gear system, so it shouldn't go false neutral on you and require a kick back to set in gear. It has a pulley off the hub rather than on the bike as in the old system. No oil to change. Rebuild when it wears down. Internally lubed. Twist shift on the right side which may take a moment to get used to. Depending on how much you earn, you could have totally new set up for your trail in two paychecks.
I'll check them out, thanks, what I learned to do since this post is just go through the gears slower & bump up the assist also slower as I get underway, before i would often start out full assist [5} & slam the gears to quickly then downshift too quickly, I'm finessing it now & it's much nicer to ride . I would kill for a belt drive & internal hub shifting though, I really use my ebikes & put 1600 miles on this trail in 4 months & my other bike a commuter style rear geared hub motor type I put 25k on it since '13, so it would be worth it..
@@Scalihoo if you want i will swing back after i get it all installed and have it out on the road and let you know how it doesn. Im using it on a gas bike and have the new motor waiting on me and i have to install everything. Gimme a week and i will give you a report. My motor and shift kit set up should replicate the flx mid drive pretty well.
shimano just entered the room with mid install gearboxes, thing is these can be fitted to just about any bike, the new shimano needs special frames, but shimano have the clout for bike manufacturers to make them frames, personally this is best, easy fit and electronic shift
Very true. Bosch would not honor warranty for one of their products, plus, they wrote the software for VW's dirty diesel cheating. Will never trust or respect them!
I am interested in the bike Nevo High Speed (motor Bosch Performance Speed) and equipped with the transmission system Rohloff E-14. On the website of Rohloff, it says that the transmission system is ideal also on high performance motor like "Bosch Performance Line CX and Speed". May we consider to equip the NEVO GX Rohloff with the motor Performance Speed and turn the bike into a high speed NEVO bike (NEVO GX Rohloff HS)?
I actually got an update on this. The bike will actually stop assisting before the battery runs out leaving enough power to operate the Rohloff hub and the lights.
Do you know of any plan by Rohloff to make a non e-bike version of this electronic shifter? I have a trike without a motor and running the cable to the manual shifter would be a pain, where as a wireless shifter would be much easier to do. In my case the issue is limiting the wires my prosthetic leg could be entangled in.
SRAM e-TAP could be a wireless option, but it's not an internal hub like this. If you wanted an electronic internal hub you could go with the Shimano Alfine 8 or ll with Di2.
Having a Rohloff on my bike for nearly two years now and I didn't regret it for a minute yet. It is worth every penny.
What application, street or trail ? Do you notice the weight difference on the rear wheel ?
Scott Carlon In out family we have now 3 Rohloff bikes, the oldest for almost 10 years on traditional trecking/travel bikes and the newest is a Riese & Müller Load 75 cargo bike. they are all great. so for a road bike and a competition mountain bike the weight might be a thing. for an ebike it’s essentially meaningless and on my travel bike I don’t notice it either. either way it is really worth every penny as there has not ever been anything wrong with it despite ZERO maintenance for almost 10 years (might have been 1 or 2 oilchanges over the years). it just always works, always has the same efficiency, no adjustments or repairs of any kind needed. ever.
our cargo bike is actually equipped with the bosch motor and the e-rohloff coupled with a cdx belt, so the same set up as the bike in the video. it’s just the most amazing drive train you can have on a bike. it’s just absolutely amazing!
It is OK in thick mud on emtb?
You and Chris really work well together. Chris is so full of good info and relates well in his presentation. Court your fee is well deserved beyond your expenses since your reviews result in sales. This happens based on your unbiased reviews, listing the good and the bad of what you review. When I finally buy an ebike, I now know what questions to ask and what to look for. Thanks for your info!!!
Optibike has been using Rohloff for 10 years now....way ahead of the industry. The Rohloff support high torque and power.
That system is soooo slick. Too bad it costs an arm and a leg.
Cheers for doing this!
wow he actually showed the parts on the bike! I was worried this was the "painful face close-up" vid posing as an engineering vid!
Ha! Lol, yea less faces, he loves himself. But must be reading his comments.
I have always liked the Rohloff speed hubs, but just can't get myself to pay that much money for it, even though I have seen the schematics and was really impressed with the craftsmanship. I am a sucker for innovative machinery.
As he says in the video, sure it's pricey but considering the maintenance on derailleur systems both what it costs and how much time it takes, the Rohloff just might be a winner after all if you use the bike long enough.
I think they start around the high hundreds for just the hub and shifter. Then you have to get a wheel and spokes and nipples and lace it or have it laced.
Sorry they start in the 1.5k range. At least on amazon.
The hub's about 1k here in Germany. Bought one three years ago with a full chain gard. Almost no more maintainance needed, even when cycling in worst weather conditions. Chainrings and chains last much, much longer... I never regretted buying the Rohloff and almost never use ride one of my other bikes in bad weather condition.
Buy bafang motor, make your own battery. I just bought a great used Rohloff from ebay in the UK for 447 dollars. 26$ for shipping. Lunacycle dotcom is who l use for parts and great trick accessories. RUclips has zillion bafang vids. My friend made me a 52v backpack battery. Like a huge history book in 7 th grade, remember?
Denham has ridden around the world in all kinds of VERY crazy, DANGEROUS, not bike friendly places for 10 years for hundreds of thousand miles and is still doing this with a rohlof hub and belt drive. he has never had to change it. his hub and drive are still very much in good shape and could last 10 years or more.This is just the beginning.
That is very cool. As I look at that bike I wonder at what point the buying public will push back against heavy bikes. Where is the line I wonder. For me, the maximum I can load on a bus rack is 55 lbs. and the maximum that Amtrak takes is 50 lbs. The weight is not much of an issue at train stations where you roll on, but at a lot of them you have to lift the bike over your head basically to the train baggage person. It's been my experience they're not happy about shuffling heavy ebikes. Of course not everyone goes multi-modal but I do. The automatic downshift is super cool.
I was on the market for a new bike earlier this year, I could buy a 50# electric bike or a 25# conventional road bike. I live in an apartment building on the 3rd floor, it had to be the road bike. I would have preferred electric but I couldn't justify it.
My bikes are stored on the fourth floor. Thankfully the building has elevators.
Good point. I have a 53 lb. Haibike (sans battery) and had to switch to bike only from multi-modal. It's technically light enough to use the bus, but I can't lift it one-handed to be able to secure it at the same time...plus it's expensive enough that I'm not willing to take the risk (the transit agency declares that we use at our own risk). Thankfully I prefer not waiting for busses anyway and the full commute is doable with assist (all uphill going home). I'm excited for the weight to come down as components decrease in cost.
Re: bus rack risk. As it turns out the company that makes most of the transit bus racks nationally is about 8 miles from my home. I emailed them with a video of my ebike swaying in a bus rack going down the freeway. They said some racks are designed to collapse in the event of collision and in those the bikes do sway. Other racks that are not built to collapse do not sway. I have now found this to be true as Metro Transit and Sound Transit use the different racks. They said my bike at 54 lbs. is quite safe but taking off the battery is even better. It's rear-rack mounted and raises the center of gravity. I couldn't lift my bike with one hand either; I lift it with both, place it in the rails, then balance it with one hand and secure it with the other. One driver suggested I lock it though as he's seen thieves grab bikes from the rack. That's another matter entirely though.
You should check out the Koga E-World traveller with Bosch CX - Rohloff e14. Around 53 lbs (batterie included) depending on how you configure the bike.
in my book, it's Percentage... not degrees....
thanks for the video
Awesome as always, great information, love the design of the R&M bikes they scream quality and combined with the rohloff you're pretty much guaranteed alot of trouble free miles
Wow that's an amazing drive system, thanks so much for posting
Sure thing! I'll be posting a full review of the R&M Nevo in the coming days. It's a sweet bike, and the Rohloff E-14 is one of the drivetrain options, probably my favorite :)
I love my Rohloff. It works like a charm, needs no maintainance and deserves so much more popularity.
Take a look at the Hebie Chainglider. Combined with the Rohloff, you need almost no maintainance even in very bad weather conditions.
It looks awesome. Just a thing of beauty to look at and also in the precision engineering. I definitely noticed the thing with the nuvinci where it doesn’t really want to let you shift under much load. But I learned to stop peddling or time it just right as Chris mentioned to get a smooth shift. I’d much rather manage that and be able to shift at standstill than the opposite situation with the derailleur system.
The range on the nuvinci n380 is good. I did run out of gears once on a long, steep climb while in turbo mode, so on a really extreme incline the extra range of the rohloff would be handy for sure. With the nuvinci you would have to grind a bit more where you could find your favourite cadence on the rohloff no matter how steep.
The auto-downshift and having that positive feeling of actual gears rather than just twisting and constantly making micro-adjustments I think are the other two big attractions of the E-14.
That hub has been the top of the line unchanged for so many years now.
Hey Court, I got one of the first ELOM 505 Ti Rohloff E14 titanium fatbike with the new Bosch, Rohloff and belt drive. It is such an awesome bike. Whenever you are in the SF bay area again you can come by and check it out.
Nice review guys and very well done as usual. Great team here! For the future of Ebikes in general, I personally would like to get away from the heavier models in hopes of the ultimate E-bike that comes in at approx 35lbs with all of the bells and whistles as a class 3. Perhaps we will see this in a commuter as well as an EMTB in the coming years of evolving tech. For me, being I am a smaller person, would be a better fit. Heavier hardware all around probably would be better for a larger/stronger rider to handle IMO. Cheers!
Fantastic introduction to these upgraded R&M ebikes. I know what I'm saving my $$$$ for now.
Have both pinion and rolhoff. Pinion is smooth and 18 speeds. Gates belts is the North American dealer for pinion. The rolhoff is needed for rear set-ups.
I reviewed a Pinion ebike in Europe from Desiknio but they never paid my service fee... so I moved on to other models. That was an expensive and difficult trip! Anyway, it's a cool product. The only trade-off is that it only works with hub motor ebikes. I may post the review for free sometime when my schedule clears up :)
@@ElectricBikeReview I chose for a C12 Pinion bike (Kalkhoff Endeavour) and converted it to have a hub motor and exchanged the chain for a Gates belt. I chose for a hub motor since it releases a lot of pressure from the belt..., and the 250 Watt motor continues up to 37 km/h :-)
Snagged a rollie used and love it. coarse shifting but I love it
Cort actually doing a non fawning informative review
I am waiting for the bike industry to have multiple models on this technology.
Chains needs to rest some day :)
"Chains needs to rest some day" pardon?
The disadvantage of hub gears is the weight, also messes up the kinematics, and balance, but with e bike these bikes are heavier, forks, motor, so it's more balanced.
Great review of some interesting new technology, I own a LEVO and ive gotta say it's so hard to go back to a normal bike. Having said that, it is really hard to take you two seriously while wearing finger cut gloves and helmets while not on your bikes.
Rohloff seems to be like Apple in bicycle drive train ☺
It's nothing like Apple. You can actually buy spare parts and repair it; unlike Apple! ;)
HI EBR i for one am delighted with this review for E bikes these speed hubs are the way to go no more derailing your gears or bending the shift or long oily chains i can only see plus plus with this set up so thank you ,paul djerassi.
PS.you should raid for all your reviews so again a BIG THANK YOU paul.
I have a question about the rohloff electronic shifter. I understand that the hub is very reliable but what about the electronic shifter? How long will that last before it needs service? Also can the bike be used if the electronic shifter fails or lets say you run out of battery? Can the bike still be driven?
Have had a rohloff for a couple of years and thinking about converting another one of my bikes.
thank you very much!!!! I am watching the Nevo Nuvinci for several months now and recently learned through one of your videos about Rohloff. There's a 1200 € difference in price between both. should try Nevo with Rohloff. The next important is, when will R&M start deliver Nevo with Kiox display.
Great question on the Kiox availability. I just filmed a Nevo review with Chris yesterday and hope to publish soon... it's an awesome ebike, and I really like the Rohloff on it. It's the closest internally geared hub to a cassette/derailleur feel that I have tested so far
Great technology. Thx for the review. Will certainly consider it when I purchase in the future.
These bikes look sweet, but unfortunately way out of my price range. Not to brag or anything but I've managed to build a custom rear hub, full suspension, 1000w ebike for about $300, thing is rad, does great in my Colorado mnts. A huge part was I was lucky enough to score a santa cruz super light bike at a thrift store for $8. However I am at this point using sealed lead acid 48v battery pack which honestly does suck, but it's enough to get me going. I am in the process of building a 30ah 48v lithium ion pack from salvaged laptop batteries. Yes it's a long tedious process but once done I will triple my range and loose weight at the same time. I'm a firm believer and proud member of the ebike revolution!
Do you really know what you are doing with the lithium batteries? Thats a huge pack to build. If you get wonky cells you could have chestnuts roasting over and open fire.
Be safe. Might be worth it to save up the money and buy something made by luna.
I have 42v 15.4Ah battery, get me 15-30 miles here in England depending mostly on weather, they hate the cold same as any battery, think I'll heat mine with an electric usb 5v dog blanket, it's always grey and cold lmao 😎🙋♂️🇬🇧
I wanted to hear about the electronic shifting. More detail please.
Hey lookie here! It's the incel bike hour!
Thank you Man! Thanks Germany
The Rohloff is german engineering at its best. Just watched a video about the factory. Love it 😍
Learnt best time to shift Alfine easily at top of cadence 👍
12:28 Pretty clever idea to attache your camere to the kick stand
PS Chris, cheer up man!
Jordan Kaluba I think the other guy “grinds his gears”
@@hinaihikesnbikes I kinda get that impression too!
Camera shots are super!
I've just ordered a Pletscher kickstand for my bike because the new forks threw off the geometry meaning the stand that came with the bike was too short, funny seeing one on the bike you were reviewing.
Kinda spooky that I'm fitting parts I'm seeing on your reviews Court, lol.
It looks like I might be able to fit that NX 1x12 groupset I was asking about as well, fingers crossed, I really want that range.
I LOVE that kickstand... highly adjustable and sturdy, good choice. Sounds like your ebike project is coming along well, did you see the extra SRAM video from Interbike Outdoor Demo Day? I filmed that just for you Tony :D
@@ElectricBikeReview I did, and it was much appreciated, thank you.
Very cool bike; I think I will start saving up to buy something like that. (By the way, it is not pronounced de-rail-yer - instead, it would be de-rail-er)
How does the Rohloff Speedhub compare to the Nuvinci CVT in price and performance?
What is the model name of the clean design beltdrive ebike?
Nuvinci has rather high internal friction.
Thanks for the video. Yes, the belt doesn’t work for MTB; bcause if you get some objet in the belt, as you have no tensor it with block or break.
Theoretically the Rohloff E-14 hub could shift gears automatically - similar to the former NuVinci H-Sync. Do you know if there are plans to realize automatic shifting through a software update in the future?
In theory, this could be possible in the future and with their app coming it could happen through an over the air update. Wouldn't that be nice.
@@newschoolnerd Would be fantastic!
tanastaling the problem with the rohloff is that is uses gears, and an auto shift would have to be precise, and require adjustment. nuvinci is always engaged making the shifting seamless and smooth.
@@jimhofoss9982 if shimano could make it work over 10 years ago with similarly geared hubs(auto-d, early di2) rohloff should be able to do so today
Nice sound during shifting gears.
After watching dozens of your videos I’m happy to see the speed hub featured on a Reise Müller frame with a belt drive. I think this combination is the best the in the market. Can you review of the Super Charger?
The Supercharger is the ultimate long distance commuter bike. Dual batteries, E-14, belt drive and hydraulic discs. What's not to like?
Hnf-Nikolai is also very interesting. Frame is lighter. Much better design.
Please do a review on a Koga E-World Traveller. Probably the best e-trekking bike, completely configurable and one of the early E-14 adopters.
Zerode made/makes a high single pivot full suspension bike. A few years ago they made the zerode g2 with a Shimano Alfine positioned inside or right next to that high pivot. I think they had problems with the quality of the Alfine for this app. The bike had one chain from the crank to the hub positioned near that high single pivot and another chain that went from the hub to the hub in the rear wheel. It gets rid of the derailleur at the rear wheel for durability and less unsprung weight so the suspension works with greater sensitivity. It also doesn’t need a tensioner because their is no chain growth. No one , that I’m aware of, is making a high single pivot full sus emtb. Hsp full sus bikes aren’t the most efficient pedalling bikes but they pedal ok and they eat up rough terrain like nothing else, amazing. Hsp bike would be great app for an emtb and this Rohloff could be a great option to really refine the current emtb full sus systems
Where would like motor be positioned if the Rohloff hub was at the pivot?
macspud28 with a high single pivot bike it’s basically a single pivot bike with the pivot 8-10ish inches above the bottom bracket. Those bikes have an idler pulley at the pivot or very close to it(depending on desired “anti squat”). The Rohloff would take the place of the idler pulley. Because the pivot is so high you can put the mid drive motor at the bottom bracket in any position. It’s preferable to alter the angle of the motor to get the chainstay as short as possible with high single pivot bikes. With the pivot so high in these bikes the direction of your wheel travels rearward much more than traditional suspension systems that go rearward a little bit but more so upward, so as soon as you sit on a hsp bike the suspension compresses and the the chain stay lengths immediately and then when you compress it more while riding in lengthens even more . It will grow your chainstay about 3 inches so it’s important to design it with a shorter chainstay in a static position to start. Traditionally these hsp bikes are known to just eat up rough terrain. Square edge bumps just disappear because the rear axle path goes so rearward . The down side is they haven’t been the most inspiring pedalling bikes because of the lack of anti squat . They still pedal ok nust not a ton of jump when you put the power down on the pedals. Perfect application for an e bike. Commencal bikes “supreme dh” is a great example of a successful hsp bike. It’s a 200 mm travel dh bike that’s won the World Cup dh overall this year. They are discontinuing their “freeride” bike, the 180mm travel supreme “sx”, for next year. It’s a shame they’re discontinuing it as is like to have one. I wish they’d redesign it with a motor to have it as a longer travel emtb in their line up. Pipe dream but that particular bike would seem like a perfect emtb in proper mountains
Good review guys!! 👏 Congratulations... I love that noise the rolhoff in action! 😍.. Is it possible to mount it on a Mustache Friday FS 27 Speed?
Hello Dave, Great review I was thinking about putting this on a Brompton Folding bike I think the E14 is fantastic - I just subscribe to your videos looking forward to more Vids Thanks Renee G (From Roland Corp)
Those are nice ebike, the new location, I want to see the other E-bike he has.
What’s the top speed on these bikes? Thanks for all the great reviews and info, great work!
Did you attach the camera to the kickstand like a bicycle selfie stick?
Ha! Yes, good catch... and I had to ride very carefully :P
@@ElectricBikeReview ive ridden off with the stand down. That first left lean is the worst feeling in the world. Then you cant figure out what happened because the stand folded and it takes you a moment to get it.
@@metamorphicorder , true! I accidentally hit a big divot (bus tires + new asphalt at some point) with mine once coming out of a left turn and had to bail into the bushes along the road. Missed the light pole, thankfully, and there were no cars behind! That would be my next ebike request--some sort of electronic recognition of the kickstand being down or auto-raising while the motor is on. In the meantime, I learned to triple check.
@@emma70707 you just get in the habit of kicking back and up.
@@metamorphicorder , I can barely reach it. I'm guessing you're a taller guy and don't have that problem?
What the heck to you do if your Rohloff gears stop working properly? The average bike shop obviously can't service it.
It seems strange that while the auto industry is embracing the mechanical simplicity of the EV, the cycle manufacturers have raced off in the opposite direction.
I dunno mate , i really do not think EV`s are anywhere near as simple as some might promote them to be :) , they are far from a toy remote control car , and do have some very expensive components .
the mechanicals of a good well made conventional car are pretty well sorted these days and should last you well past 10 years without any major expenses if you have a good car , unless you buy a shit box .
my conventional car has lasted 17 and still runs well . .
@@mikldude9376 - shame about the lack of education though !!
Best product on market as well.
Hey Court when are you doing videos on the new Magnum bikes.
I have a rohloff speed hub on my big dummy with stokemonkey mid drive the speed hub was the best money I ever spent for the bike it not electronic shift but it’s really nice.
Great, that means the Bosch can be configured to have motor cutoff on shifting. Maybe, I can link the cut off to the brake lever (with sensor) so I can slightly press the brake while shifting my derailer. That's what I do with my other ebike. The Bosch automatic detection does not always provide smooth shifting and it irks me when it slams. That also prevented me from buying a Bosch ebike. If it comes with brake sensor (at least on the left side) then I may reconsider getting a Bosch. The motor is top notch compared to other brands thou.
When do you suggest a full suspension over an hardtail (e.g. Nevo vs Homage) ? Both equipped with Rohloff Speedhub.
I know this is 2yr old upload but I find it appropriate to ask here since you have touched the subject: does this mean that one could achieve higher top speed with rohloff igh comparing to 10t or 11t cassette providing the front gear is the same, same power same bike wheels etc?
Very cool! I like the camera angles of the hub a lot. Can you add this to a Bosch Performance (28 mph) Intuvia system (Haibike Xduro) and get it to work or would the shift detection be disabled?
Hi Emma! Glad you enjoyed the video, I checked about the Performance Line Speed motor compatibility and found that yes, you can mate this drivetrain with that motor and still have shift detection. Here's an example of one ebike that does: www.r-m.de/en-us/models/nevo-gt/nevo-gx-rohloff-hs-us/#F00160_050107 not sure if any Haibikes offer that right now though
This isn’t available for retrofits at the moment and it’s unclear if it will be as it will require the OEM (Haibike in this example) to reprogram the Bosch motor system.
Thanks! I'll just have to start saving up for a new ebike, I suppose. Haha.
your hands appear in every single video, ends up a joke animated hands video lol
I have a 2017 Cube Touring Pro Hybrid with a Bosch Performance Line CX Motor. I have been having issues with my Altus derailleur system and am considering upgrading to this. Any thoughts/suggestions/redirections?
The cool part about my bbshd with rohloff is that I can shift 4 to 5 gears at one time with grip shift. Just because it shifts electric doesn't make it better plus with manual shifting you can feel the hub engage before you add power that is gone with electric shifting.
You should install paddle shifters. It has that sound. :)
The Rohloff as a great range 526%. But do you know the highest gear you can get vs a NuVinci N380 or standard Cassette? I ask since you say Rohloff allows you to go faster. I tried the NuVinci N380 on 4th Gen Riese & Müller and the highest gear was not really high enough to reach top speeds.
I have to agree that the NuVinci is tending to 'stuck' if you're trying to use it during acceleration, wasn't so during first couple of weeks, but later on... I think with my next bike I will try a Rohloff in combination with a belt drive (actually using a Gates - and I'm satisfied with it).
Andreas Cremer really? I have not experienced that from my auto shift nuvinci. I have been on it for three years, no problems.
If you're using the original N171 then yes shifting under load isn't possible. Otherwise I've not had an issue doing it with the later models and I've got many thousands of miles of experience with NuVinci/ Enviolo hubs. Shifting during acceleration is one of my favourite things about the hubs.
I would love to have an internally geared hub system instead of the derailleur on my FLX Trail because it shifts hard & clunks into gear, it might be partially my fault the way I've adjusted it but it's a little annoying. The bike is great otherwise whisper quiet motor, nice quality feel except the dang clunks , thats what you get for $ 1900, I suppose . People often comment about the high prices of these high end bikes but if you can afford one & are into touring they are well worth it you get what you pay for in most cases, no clunky shifting .
Thanks for your honest feedback! Sometimes the powerful mid-drive motors can contribute to hard shifts like you're describing, especially if there's no shift detection. I reviewed the FLX Trail a while back, maybe you could shift smoother by tapping the brakes so the motor inhibitor switches will fire, like a manual shift detection?
Thanks for the insight & tip, I'll try it 👍
Im not sure off hand what dropouts the Trail is set for. But husky bikes in TX has a rear wheel dbl wall allow 12ga spokes and laced on a sturmey archer 3spd drum.
Im i think the trail has disc brakes im not sure if its hydro or mech but im pretty sure you can use the drum brake on that frame if its standard drop outs at 135mm OLD.
The wheel is about 230$. I have it for my gasser, im about to install it with a shift kit. They also have a matching front wheel with drum. I have that on already. If you have hydros then you would need new brake levers with cutoffs compatible with the FLX system which is likely standard stuff.
The front wheel is about 200$.
Super sturdy wheels, they custom drill the hubs for 12 ga spokes.
They are a bit heavier than regular wheels. But once you loose the native brakes, and cassette and mech, it will likely even out. Shouldnt effect range too much.
Its a 3 speed. 1 direct 1:1 gear, one under and one over.
The shifting mech isnt like the piano shifter on the shimano system its more like the speedhub but different.
Its the new no in between gear system, so it shouldn't go false neutral on you and require a kick back to set in gear.
It has a pulley off the hub rather than on the bike as in the old system.
No oil to change. Rebuild when it wears down. Internally lubed.
Twist shift on the right side which may take a moment to get used to.
Depending on how much you earn, you could have totally new set up for your trail in two paychecks.
I'll check them out, thanks, what I learned to do since this post is just go through the gears slower & bump up the assist also slower as I get underway, before i would often start out full assist [5} & slam the gears to quickly then downshift too quickly, I'm finessing it now & it's much nicer to ride . I would kill for a belt drive & internal hub shifting though, I really use my ebikes & put 1600 miles on this trail in 4 months & my other bike a commuter style rear geared hub motor type I put 25k on it since '13, so it would be worth it..
@@Scalihoo if you want i will swing back after i get it all installed and have it out on the road and let you know how it doesn. Im using it on a gas bike and have the new motor waiting on me and i have to install everything. Gimme a week and i will give you a report. My motor and shift kit set up should replicate the flx mid drive pretty well.
Can you go more in dept on the electric shifting options ect. Is it available
shimano just entered the room with mid install gearboxes, thing is these can be fitted to just about any bike, the new shimano needs special frames, but shimano have the clout for bike manufacturers to make them frames, personally this is best, easy fit and electronic shift
Any long term issues with the electronic shift?
Shame this is only available for Bosch motors.
Very true. Bosch would not honor warranty for one of their products, plus, they wrote the software for VW's dirty diesel cheating. Will never trust or respect them!
I am interested in the bike Nevo High Speed (motor Bosch Performance Speed) and equipped with the transmission system Rohloff E-14.
On the website of Rohloff, it says that the transmission system is ideal also on high performance motor like "Bosch Performance Line CX and Speed".
May we consider to equip the NEVO GX Rohloff with the motor Performance Speed and turn the bike into a high speed NEVO bike (NEVO GX Rohloff HS)?
Sumo Mince I believe the HS isn’t available in all markets. It’s available here in the US though.
I have this hub on my urban arrow cargo currently cable shifting, in the wet its hard to grip the shifter i cant wait to upgrade to the e shifting.
Did you end up going through with the E14 upgrade on your urban arrow? Were you able to have a shop update the software in the motor to support it?
@@yakblocker I didn’t I own a shop and I don’t really need it tbh
Nice review, thanks. Question: as the Rohloff speed hub is electric... does it stop working (shifting) when the battery is dead?
Dominique Carlos A it still works, it just doesn’t shift.
I actually got an update on this. The bike will actually stop assisting before the battery runs out leaving enough power to operate the Rohloff hub and the lights.
Wow, what an informed review!
Would be nice to see it with the new TQ 120S.
Do ya still review the smaller bike companies with the less expensive models or can they not afford u?
Where in the USA are they sold. Texas? Houston?
Would you do one comparing enviolo with rohloff. Which is better.
What is the model if this bike - it seems like it is not available in the UK, despite being made in Germany
MASHAALLAH khub valo video
Wow! A Riese and Mueller that doesn't look like a WWII Panzer tank.
People actually cut the frame to fit belts?? is the frame any good after that??
Any chance they will develope a automatic transmission?
Would it work on Haibike all mtn 7 yamaha cx2 motor?
This one work for Bosch Drive Unit Performance CX Generation 4 (85Nm) Cruise?
Will it still function when the battery is empty?
Why do you name the range in degrees? I always heard range in percentage not in degrees.
Do you know of any plan by Rohloff to make a non e-bike version of this electronic shifter? I have a trike without a motor and running the cable to the manual shifter would be a pain, where as a wireless shifter would be much easier to do. In my case the issue is limiting the wires my prosthetic leg could be entangled in.
Unfortunately, no. I think it's only offered as an OEM part (pre-installed on ebikes) and only works with Bosch drive systems at the moment.
SRAM e-TAP could be a wireless option, but it's not an internal hub like this. If you wanted an electronic internal hub you could go with the Shimano Alfine 8 or ll with Di2.
At present this is true, there is no aftermarket version of this only OEM for Bosch.
Why wear the helmet loose in this way?
Pinion needs a e-shifter too.
What's the top speed & distance on this rig
E thirteen got even more range than sram Eagle, and is lighter there is 11 and 12 SPD cassettes, 9-46t two peace casettes. I haven't tried one yet.
And what's the total weight of the bicycle?
These e-bikes are heavy....so, not easy to pedal with power off.
Hi guys, I have an el bike with gats belt drive and the gears are soooooooo high is there any way to change it?
Why are you wearing the helmet all the time?
If you can’t shift under load what good are they?
You slightly pause pedaling when shifting on an internally geared hub. You get used it it very quickly
Slightly ease the pressure on the pedals rather than pause would be more accurate really.
True, but I always tell people riding my Rohloff-equipped bike for the first time to pause pedaling just to limit potential damage.
Belt drive,,,,NICE!!!!
Anyone know how to change the startout gear? I want to reduce it from Gear 6 to Gear 5, intuvia display.
How fast is it?
Can they take off road .. or do they fall to bits ?
dj james arundel people use Rohloffs on their mtbs all the time with no problems.
degrees ? do you mean percent ?