Hey y’all! Thank you for watching! If you enjoyed the video, please consider leaving a like. It’s free and it helps out the channel. I just released a video on the topic, "why the definition of a Roguelike is so controversial." Check it out: ruclips.net/video/zOpfReqrq-0/видео.html
I'm looking forward to that video as someone who hates the definition of Roguelike as it spawned Roguelite and I feel like if we just redefined Roguelike we could finally drop the Roguelite term cause it's point is pretty much useless.
@@NeoCinnamon I just call proper roguelikes "traditional roguelikes" at this point. I'm still an old grump who believe that 95% of the games on this list are not roguelikes, but I can't be bothered with the argument anymore.
@@ataronchronon well you aren't wrong, most things nowadays are rougelites, I'd say 95% is a fair estimate. That's the issue, the subgenre to the genre has way more entries than that of the non subgenre. Either we redefine what Roguelike is and call those that aren't roguelites, as you said proper or traditional rougelikes, and the rest is just roguelikes. Or we make roguelikes the subgenre or something I don't know.
Nice list. One game that im surprised is missing from this list is: Griftlands. An excellent deckbuilder with a decent story. Love the doubledeck-aspect of the game and the challenges that it brings with the higher difficulty system. Check it out if you havent!
I remember hearing about it but I wasn’t sure.. Massive props to him, doing it all by himself. I will be checking it out again because I do think the game has great potential ;)
@@nopizzawithoutpineapple I played a couple weeks ago and it was a lot more balanced and I really like it but I don't play it too often, but that's mostly because I have too many games and not because it's a bad game.
Came to argue with your thumbnail on Dead Cells being C tier, stayed for really engaging commentary and an in-depth ranking of several great games, only to then see the true placement. Well played.
Great list, thanks for including Crab Champions- I completely agree with the placement, it's my first game and I've a LOT to improve on in pretty much every aspect before it can be in any way competitive- learning a lot with each update. I've made a large amount of balance changes for the next update that'll be out in the next month or so (I saw in another comment that you may check it out again so maybe worth holding off until that update is out before you do). My original goal was to allow players to completely break the game with the right combinations but there are a lot of ways this can happen too easily so a lot of the most common power spikes are harder to get in this update: I still am on the side of allowing the game to be broken over a super balanced game (as I think it's just more fun) but there are many ways to do that more effectively than I'm doing now. Lots of content planned for the next few years, early days still! P.S. Amazing work on your "What makes a good roguelike" video, you do a great job breaking down what makes the genre so good! I've been watching it on and off over the last few days and every section is packed with good stuff.
Thanks for the kind message! I’ve gotten back to the game and I must praise you for adding very impactful improvements through the updates. I always respect single developers, awesome job. I’m currently working on a video series where I talk about the design process of certain Roguelikes with interviews from the developers and I think this game is a great example of constant learning and improving. If you’re interested, I might want to eventually reach out ;)
@@PepperHeadGamingAbsolutely interested, that sounds like a very cool idea. Let me get the game into good shape and then it’ll be fun to explore the journey getting there 🦀
Sounds good. I’m finishing up a couple videos in the meantime. Feel free to reach out to me on Discord at Pepper Head Gaming. Looking forward to future updates ;) 🌶️
Hey noisestorm. I just want to let you know that my wife and I love crab champions and we look forward to every update. It is a really fun game for us to play as a couple. We also play risk of rain 2 and gunfire reborn, but we prefer crab champions because it is kind of a nice balance between the two. Anyways, we love what you're doing and look forward to the game's completion.
I actually agree. That’s when the Roguelike terms starts getting a bot twisted.. But it does "unfortunately" have the Roguelike tag on steam so I still felt like bringing it up. I probably should of mentioned it being a bit less of a Roguelike all things considered.
This dude managed to make a video called "Ranking The Best DESIGNED Roguelikes", then includes exactly 1 roguelike game in the total list and then does not rank it. Hahahaha! I actually enjoy the real roguelike games but it is a smaller market and this new wave of roguelites has messed with the definition of roguelike games as well. Because actual roguelike games are not as popular, most people don't seem to care about the abuse of the name. It does annoy me.
@@timm8998Yeah, I get your frustration. I’ve become used to it by now but the new “roguelikes” feel nothing like the original. Ragnarok on DOS was my favorite. :)
The interesting thing about Darkest Dungeon is that it's actually easier to list the things you cannot control than it is to list the things you can control. The key to success is just game knowledge and once you have it it is quite easy to complete the game deathless consistently. The issue is that a lot of the information on various mechanics are buried in change logs or in the game files themselves which means that a lot of people don't get to see how everything works which makes the game feel more random. The nice thing is that the community as a whole has done a lot of work moving this information onto various wikis and hubs for the game. There are also many comprehensive community guides that cumulatively cover the entire game and all DLC, which is part of the reason that the game is still alive years later.
I find Hades to be really incredible and I played it all throughout early access from day one, but it’s lacking in the kind of long term replayability that games like Isaac, STS, and Gungeon have. Feels like once you’ve gotten through the story and leveled the weapon aspects that there’s really nothing left for you. You’re always fighting the same bosses, weapon aspects kind of lock you into a certain boon build path right from the jump, it’s always the same maps, and the limit of one weapon boon/one dash boon/etc. really hurts the crazy one more run to see what you can do feeling of other games. High A tier for me.
Agreed. The beauty of Hades is the action combat, but the systems behind the scenes are pretty barebones compared to say BOI which has so many variables that can alter a run at any given time. All Hades has is the weapons/buffs you go in with and the boons/upgrades you get during the run.
I feel like I'm really missing something in your comment -- you do know about Hades' heat system, right? It's also a game, like he mentioned, that many people speedrun. It has a ton of replayability after beating the final boss. Haelian is a perfect example of someone who continues to milk Hades for content.
This feels like more of an objective list which felt nice, even with some games I like being lower your analysis I felt was very "fair" and I appreciate when people do lists like this to help broaden my knowledge of available roguelike games to try out in the future :)
What a video! And so under-rated. As an long time youtube lurker, this video is so nice to listen to, compare your experience, find recomendations and so on and so forth. Love the Darkest Dungeon review, hits hard...but I have to say, mods is THE thing that keeps DD fresh. New characters, items, rebalances and even regions. Still a violent experience...
So sad to see Nuclear Throne rated so low, personally I have not found a single twin stick roguelike that scratches the same itch for me. The characters, weapons, and mutations are fun and interesting and you can definitely get a lot of variety in your builds. The enemies and bosses are also really cool, especially the way that boss scaling in handled in the loops. Things like big bandit doubling, or mom getting faster, big dog leaving smaller gaps in their attacks and missiles firing bullets, etc.
I do indeed think the game is very well designed and has much to it. If the game would have gotten more updates throughout the years as Isaac did, it could have been an easy S tier for me ;)
@@PepperHeadGamingI mean,the people who made NT got tired of the development to the game because they wanted to get back to their routes,making tons of very small games. They really did just get sick of it as far as I remember.
I actually like Nuclear Throne MORE for not feeling the need to shoehorn updates in every x amount of months to try to keep their game relevant. I find a lot of games just keep adding content to the point they get bloated and unbalanced and even lose some of the cohesion or the feel of it's original incarnation, and given this was a "best DESIGNED" tier list, I'm surprised you detracted that much from it for simply not spoon-feeding content drops. Nuclear Throne still holds up today as an amazingly well balance, well designed, awesome themed, spectacular game. It definitely sits somewhere between S tier and a very high A for me. @@PepperHeadGaming
Really surprised monolith (now rebranded as star of providence) isn’t on here. It’s got an overwhelmingly positive rating and is in my opinion one of the best out there. It’s also getting a giant update at some point under video game dunkey’s publishing company.
Fantastic game, I still call it monolith! Though I think @PepperHeadGaming will agree, the upgrades don't change your play style, at all, it's hetic and you're constantly on the move with the dash bullet hell style, but the upgrades you're kinda chosing the one that fires the fastest with the most damage. REGARDLESS as a bullet hell game, one of my fave.
-Tiny Rogues is receiving a HUGE update on december, that will TRIPLE the content that is already in the game. The dev said yesterday that the amount of items in the game will go from 150 to 500; he's also adding alternative levels for each existing level, and a new set of secret levels that you can go after you beat the final boss, all new levels with their new respective bosses and enemies. If that was not enough, he said this update would be 0.2v or so, so if you trust in this dev's commitment (he's certainly hard-working), this would only be about 20-25% of the full game, which is an insane perspective. -Revita's dev recently announced on Twitter the update is no longer happening, apparently because of lack of support from its publisher or something related with hard-to-meet deadlines and so. -Another simple game with a ton of content (and it's about 70% completed in early access) is The Void Rains Upon Her Heart, a bullet hell shmup roguelite with an insane amount of achivements. Def one of my faves -Monolith is another recomendation, that I've seen commented already. Def one of the bests if you, again, like bullet hell/shumps. It has an update in the works for quite some time now, and maybe even a future DLC planned.
Vault of the Void is one of the best deckbuilder roguelikes with unique mechanics etc.! Your negative points mostly had nothing to do with the game itself but with the artstyle/graphics. Of course not every game is everyones cup of tea BUT then name your list accordingly aka as YOUR PERSONAL best!
I respect your opinion, but the spelunky games got done so dirty, two of the most meticulously designed games I’ve ever played, But it seems you have a preference for a different style of game mechanics I get that. much respect ❤️
Hive Jump 2: Survivors has entered the fray! Adds Jetpack for more unique stage traversal across bespoke levels within a sci-fi aesthetic + Starship Trooper vibes!
Crab champions in C tier? you gotta try it again, its had a few major updates and I think the issues you addressed have been mostly fixed, its a high B now imo
For the few games in this list that I have played personally: 1:01 - 20 Minutes Till Down is indeed a middle-of-the-road game. Very enjoyable to play for a bit, but doesn't have much to set it apart. It's just your average solid roguelike. 2:13 - I'm surprised Across The Obelisk managed to reach A tier, especially since this is judged from a singleplayer perspective. I'm definitely not complaining that it's so high, I really love the game myself, but while playing it alone, I always wished I had more people to play it with, because managing 4 decks of cards on my own felt pretty overwhelming 7:51 - Backpack Hero has a pretty neat concept, but I noticed myself getting bored with the game pretty quickly and I didn't even know there were different characters in the game until I watched this video. So yeah, C-tier does reflect my own experience with the game 36:03 - I'm surprised Darkest Dungeon is on this list, but the second game isn't. The second game is structured like a roguelike, meanwhile the first game is more of a campaign, the closest thing it has to the roguelike genre is the random levels and enemies. But yeah, the RNG during fights really holds this game back, and the cycle of playing for a few hours, leaving for a year and then coming back is very recognizable. I'd probably have put it in A-tier, but I do think B tier is perfectly reasonable. 58:55 - FTL is really good, I agree that mods shouldn't be taken into account when ranking the game, but it's really hard not to take the multiverse mod into account as it feels really vanilla, and manages to expand on it a bunch. I'm tempted to put the base game in S as well, but it probably does belong in A tier, but if you can take the multiverse mod into account, it's an easy S-tier. 1:09:30 - Hades is S-tier no question. Voice acting, Visuals, Gameplay, Story and Characters, this game manages to excel in all of them. This is a "Jack of all traits, Master of ALL". 1:18:08 - I don't think I can really say much more about Inscryption than you've already said, because I really shouldn't spoil this game. Kaycee's Mod is worth mentioning tho, which, despite having "mod" in the name, is made by the devs, and allows you to enjoy the roguelike aspect of the game, without progressing the story. Inscryption as a whole does deserve S-tier, but not because it's a good roguelike, just because it's a good game. 1:20:28 - Loop hero gains extra points in my eyes for having very unique mechanics and executing them really well. I also love the music of the game. For me, it's definitely A-tier, and it's the first game where I do disagree with the placement on this list (but I do understand why it's placed in B-tier). 1:36:41 - I'm surprised Noita didn't make it to S-tier, it just has so much going for it. Secrets, depth, replay value, interesting concept. Noita has it all. 1:42:40 - Whenever I see One Step From Eden, I get a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. Thinking about the game just always makes me happy, yet, there is no way I'd ever put it higher than the B-tier. It's weird how connected I feel to the game despite having played it way less than most other roguelikes, and me generally not being a fan of fast-paced games. The game has very good music, which is probably why Violet is one of my favorite bosses in all of gaming. Her moves follow the beat of the music, and her boss theme sounds amazing. 1:48:12 - Wow, I'm really surprised to see Peglin in S-tier. To be fair, I've played a lot of Peglin myself as well and I have to admit that the concept just works. But still, S-tier?! Saying it's a random S-tier is very accurate. I really can't justify putting it higher than A tier for myself, because, unlike the other S-tiers, I really can't say this one is a masterpiece. But I can respect it, the game is quite addicting. 2:03:52 - My thoughts on Rogue Tower are exactly the same. I love tower defense, I love roguelike, this game combines the 2 and has so much potential, but the tower upgrades don't feel very special. Also, small correction: you said it's a roguelike rather than a roguelite, but it has a bunch of permantent upgrades you can spend your money on in-between runs, so it definitely is a roguelite and I doubt it's beatable on your first run. 2:21:15 - Shotgun King has an interesting concept, and it was fun for 1 run, but I got bored of the game extremely quickly and this is the only roguelike I've ever ended up refunding. D-tier for me. If you want a chess-based roguelike, I'd recommend The Ouroboros King. It more closely follows the rules of chess and has more variety than shotgun king does. 2:29:01 - Ah yes, the classic, Slay The Spire. While I wouldn't put it above Hades personally, it's just a really solid, well-balanced, deckbuilding roguelike and the game that most new deckbuilding roguelikes base themselves on. 2:58:02 - Vampire Survivors has no right being this good, just unlocking everything in the game gives you hours of content, and that's not even taking into account all the secrets. It has popularized the genre that's currently known as "bullet heaven" where instead of the enemies sending so many bullets at you that it's a hell to dodge, instead you're the one who is sending a bunch of bullets everywhere to keep yourself safe from the enemy. This honestly deserves an S-tier in my eyes. 3:07:12 - I'm surprised to see Wildermyth on the list, as it can barely be considered a roguelike. I personally really like the game and would put it in A-tier, but not because it's a good roguelike, rather because it's just a good game. It'd be S-tier if it had more than just 3 very basic classes. To be fair, these classes can be pushed in different directions that play quite differently from each other, but whenever you get a new character, they always feel same-ey and you need to invest in them before they get their own unique playstyle.
Inscryption has way more than just the campaign. The side mode 'Kaycees' mod' is way more balanced than the main game and its pretty much the entire reason i have 100+ hours in the game. if you haven't checked out Kaycees' mod please do. its honestly brilliant.
About monster train, I was very "disappointed" when I played it, and because of one of your comments on the game: that it is challenging. It's not. I have to preface that I'm very used to deckbuilding games and card battlers so of course this is a strong factor. The thing is, the deckbuilding part is meant to be accessible, which means that you are never overwhelmed with options to choose from. This also means that the deckbuilding part becomes limited quite fast if you're used to deckbuilding and once you got used to it in the game. About the difficulty, I always played in the max difficulty possible (don't remember how it's called in this game, equivalent to ascension levels in slay the spire). At around difficulty 7/8 I started all my runs with full randomization of the factions because I wanted more deckbuilding variety. I still went from there to max difficulty losing around 10% of the runs, most of the time because I made something very stupid after my brain got sleepy because of the low number of decisions that have to be taken (it's still my fault, and they count as losses, but it's not like I lost because the runs were hard). That being said, I really enjoyed the game. I think I put in 40-50 hours, and no regrets. The deckbuilding part is on the baby side, but the gameplay of the battle themselves is very interesting and I loved it. If you're a deckbuilder veteran, the game is not hard but very enjoyable, and if you're like me it will be a chill experience all along and I still recommend the game, just don't think of it as a deep challenging game, it's not. I would still rate the game in low/mid A tier. If you're not a veteran of this style, Monster Train is a great entry point into deckbuilders, and it will become challenging if you really want to push the difficulties as soon as possible. I would rate it very high A tier (I suspect it was rated from this point of view). An unrelated grip I have with the game is that it doesn't allow to reduce the needed specs by removing particle effects or a lot of things. I find it baffling to need a GPU to play a f***ing card game. I was not able to play it until I bought a new desktop computer, as it didn't run on my laptop. I was playing Hades on my laptop, but Monster Train just doesn't run. wtf. Overall it's still a very good game, I'm just surprised of seeing it being recommended after StS by a lot of people.
Was surprised you didn't mention how wild and original the guns in Gunfire Reborn are, although i'm sure you appreciate it because of how much you like that game. That's one of its' strongest points for me because the gun you choose to use shapes the playstyle so signficantly.
I have close to 7k hours into all the Isaac games and I still go back to it from time to time. With the mods that are constantly being released, the game just keeps getting better.
Great list and explanations! a few I would recommend to check out off the list are Synthetik Legion Rising, We Who Are About to Die, Mortal Glory, Otxo, Trials of Fire, and Doomsday Hunters!
I love roguelikes, like A LOT, they are easily more than 50% of my steam library, and i came here not to see the popular ones (Isaac, STS, risk of rain, etc) But i love watching other roguelikes that i love that didn't get that much of attention being rated fairly high, like Moolighter, One step from eden and specially Wizard of legend, i love those games so much Great video
I play STS vanilla and it's easily the greatest roguelike, imo. My favorite is Isaac but I can't deny the perfect balance of STS. The devs have refined it to flawlessness and it's such a rare thing to see, in modern gaming.
Great video! Sad to hear Spelunky isn't your thing. It's definitely my #1 roguelike spot along with Isaac. Perhaps you also played something from this list? If not, consider it as a recommendations. Not all of them are actually good, but pretty unique for my taste: AK-xolotl. Airheart Below Colt Canyon Crown Trick Dead End Job Dicey Dungeons Dreamscaper Gods will fall Frost Into the pit Nongunz Sea Salt Tainted Grail: Conquest The flame in the flood Vambrace: Cold Soul West of Dead
Oh thank you so very much for the recommendations. I am adding many games to my wishlist hoping to play most recommended Roguelikes before the end of the year. I’ll check those out ;)
Spelunky didn’t have the weak to overpowered fantasy that keeps me playing in this genre, I wish I could get into it or the sequel but it never feels rewarding to me 😢
This is honestly really awesome and i appreciate making a tier list with so many games! A lot of these look really interesting and i kind of wanna try them out ngl. I never would've discovered them without this honestly! Great job.
So surprised atomicrops isnt on here. Have you played it?? it was the most chaotic roguelite / like ive played (then i played voidigo) but i think its super fun and unique
A friend and i where playing a little nuclear throne drinking game. Everytime we would lose a coop round we had to drink a shot of rum. We didn't expect anything aside from playing worse and drinking more. But at one point we hit a magical sweetspot. We played so well we were not drinking for almost an hour. I love this game. And rougelikes in general. Let me choose one genre for the rest of my life and i would choose rougelikes.
If you think Darkest Dungeon is just chaotic, you just haven't played enough to discover the multiple layers of knowledge, when it becomes very satisfying. But yes the learning is brutal. But for me, the graphics and artistic direction, music and so on are so GOOD that it made me keep going at it.
My main problem with it was that i had no way of knowing how good/bad i was doing for hours. Id play for like 5 hours until i knew where i was at, and then i had to compile the information of what i did in the past 5 hours together, which not only made it very time consuming to learn but also difficult to accurately pinpoint what actions lead to what events. Ive always appreciated the more straight forward approach of isaac and the likes where you pick up an item, experiencing the effect immediately and allowing you to assess that single item rather than the run as a whole
I've tried and failed to get into roguelikes several times. But over the last 2 weeks I've been binging the only RL to finally work for me: Wizard of Legend
Have you played Into the Breach? I'm interested to know where it would land for you. For me it's probably landing in high A or S, and I typically prefer action over turn based games.
You are not the first to being that one up to me. I was even considering playing it before the Tier list but didn’t have the time. Definitely trying it out in the next few weeks.
Shotgun King was made in a game jam, and was so well received that the developers continued to work on it to release it as a finished and more polished game, so its normal that its not to long.
I love rougelike and rougelite games, I love tier list videos, and I love long form youtube videos (seriously my favorite youtube video of all time is 3 and a half hours long, mgs4 was a mistake) so I have a feeling I am going to absolutely love this video.
Love this video, Thank you for taking the time to put it all together. I have been in a roguelike mood lately, and been playing a lot of them but I hadn't heard of several games in your list that I am going to check out!
You have some opinions that I definitely agree with. The vast majority of them, to be honest. I've kind of fallen of roguelite games specifically, I get tired of them starting you out so damn weak and trickle feeding you upgrades so that it'll take you a super long time to beat. But, I have played most of these and I appreciate you including SO MANY games.
Great vid, enjoyed watching. Returnal is one of my favorite roguelikes. It’s more of a campaign style game, but like Hades you get more story for completing a run. There aren’t many 3rd person bullet hell shooters with AAA level visuals in the roguelike field.
Finally finished the video. Very solid list. The only one I disagree with is Peglin. I really want to like that game, but every time I play it it just makes me angry. Too much rng for my taste. You have to check Into the Breach if you haven't. That's a nice puzzle roguelike from the same dudes that made FTL if I remember correctly.
When they first announced RoR2 and said it'd be 3D I was honestly kind of disappointed. I couldn't see any way they'd translate the 2D to 3D gameplay. But they absolutely nailed it and it became my favourite roguelike the moment I got through the first stage. Man does that game feel good to play. Also the music is amazing, just like the first one
Just stumbled across this pocket of roguelike heaven, been playing them since booting Nuclear Throne and Darkest Dungeon in high school (instead of doing assignments sometimes too.) A tiny bit sad to not see Everspace as I love that game dearly and would highly recommend to anyone looking for a pure visual spectacle, being one of the most gorgeous games I've ever laid eyes on. The raw rogue elements do lack but I feel it makes up for that through gameplay fluidity and feedback, watching spaceships explode never gets old, after all.
The game, the mechanics, the depth of of gameplay, simulation. Everything is awesome. But the game itself isn't really fun, and overly sadistic. You are either clueless, and happen to die randomly, or lnow everything about it, to the point where it becomes almost trivial. It is interesting to explore the world and it's mysteries, main gameplay loop isn't very fun.
It’s because a lot of people know difficult games like the dark souls series, but get put off by the difficulty and accept it’s probably a good game, “but it’s too hard for me”. These games are constantly viewed highly because the 2000 hour people enjoy it so much and the others want to share that sentiment. The problem is accessibility which is very important in viewing games as consumer products and minor entertainment, but less important when viewing games as works of art.
That's how all games start. You start with no fucking clue what you're doing, improve in both skill and knowledge over time, then you can stomp the game easily. Even games that are supposed to be absurdly hard, like Fear And Hunger, run with that. The learning curve might have different slopes for different games, but they all follow the same formula: git gud. @@parisulki729
A bit late here but One Step From Eden is my favorite rougelike of all time! Honestly I'm not a super big fan of the genre and only a few really stick out to me, though something about the gameplay is incredibly smooth and the sfx (and soundtrack) are a complete eargasm. It's a lot of trial and error like you said but learning the spells and figuring out which ones you enjoy using or not and building your ideal deck through a run is super fun!
Thanks for the long video and the roguelike recommendations! I generally agree with a lot of the tierlist - I would put some games a few tiers higher or lower (especialy crypt of the necrodancer, vault of the void and rogue legacy 2), but it's all pretty sensible. For vault of the void it might be kind of hard to get into, but I think it does a lot to minimize the feeling of losing a run because you drew a bad hand or because you were not given the right stuff, and it's in my top 3 favorites of the genrea. The threat system is basically that enemies do damage to you 1 turn later than normal, giving you another hand to draw and plan. You are also able to discard cards in hand for energy, which makes planning a turn pretty fun while also meaning that if you had a bad hand you can just stock up energy for next turn. It also feels pretty unique that at any time before a fight you can change your deck to fit the fight, as it is always 20 cards but also always customizable. It is also the kind of game that can get really nuts with the damage and synergies if you know what you are doing. As for some games that weren't mentioned - I was surprised you haven't played nova drift yet, since even though it's still in early access it has a ton of content. It has some of the best build creation out of any roguelike imo (20 minutes til dawn took some inspiration from it). The void rains upon her heart is also one of the best roguelike shmup games currently out there (still 100% positive on steam right now!). Monolith is amazing in the same genrea too. Also, into the breach is a really well designed game and got a major update recently from the makers of FTL. Ziggurat 2 is also one of the best FPS roguelikes, it improved a lot on the first game. Slice and dice is a really amazing roguelike strategy game. On a personal note, Synthetik 1 is my favorite action roguelike of all time, it just feels amazing when you get into it. Lastly, OTXO is basically roguelike hotline miami.
Great video and list! Most games that I have played from it I would rank more or less the same - in fact, the highest tiered out of these games that I've played (StS, Hades, Dead Cells, Inscryption) I have in my top 10 of all time AND in the same order... I have two extra recommendations for fans of roguelike deckbuilders that are not on this list: Cobalt Core and Griftlands. Cobalt Core takes a LOT from StS but with very different playstyles and the addition of 2D navigation. This is an easy high A-tier for me, probably just above Roguebook. GL is a heavily story-based deckbuilder where you can resolve conflict with either your combat or your negotiation deck. The one detail that makes this not A but B-tier for me: a run takes a bit too long, often 3+ hours, which stifles the replayability.
I'd put Neon Abyss at a mid to lower A tier. The weapons are very different and the perks were very fun. I also loved the art style that made it feel close to Enter The Gungeon.
Thanks for making this - watched the entire 3 hours. I'm a big roguelike/lite fan and learned about some new ones here to try out. Hades is my all-time favorite. Here are some that you should check out that I didn't see on your list - Darkest Dungeon 2, Ravenswatch, Wildfrost and Robo Quest.
bro i love deadcells, but noita dificulty isn't ever close to enter the gungeon, noita is a WALK IN A PARK when you have one thing: KNOWLEDGE, i actly put noita above any game, but i totaly agree, when you don't know the tricks/tech you is just a litle insect, but learning will turn you into a ivunerable god, i love the game, but i was not able to see how this game is the pinacle of gaming is future... a physics roguelike, cud become a sandbox like minecraft, if one day someone create a sandbox survival with this physic quality but in 3D this game will MURDER all other games, will be a complete monopoly in the game industry, this isn't possible now with the tecnology of to day... but trust me, tecnology can change from water to wine in 5 years, if someone discover a super conductor we will have smartphones with quantun computers on it, there is also research of a new semiconductor that was areadly ben dicovered that can add 1000% more computing power to chips, they're seeking for cheaper substitute materials for this semiconductor, since the materials/elements of it to day cost a fortune
I give this video S Tier... holy shit man, awesome work, even i disagree with some (Spelunky 2 and Rogue Legacy 2 are S tier), very ejoyable video to watch, 3 hours of pure quality, thank you.
Even tho we disagree in many things its always good to hear informed opinions, it can open one's perspective. Thanks for showing all these games i love roguelikes/lites, ive already played most of them but ive found some new ones to try. I recommend you to play Recettear (one of my favorite games), its the same general concept as Moonlighter but i hated ML so much, the combat was terrible imo.
No "dungeon of dreadmore"? ... cataclysm dark days ahead? Ancient domains of mystery? If you're making a rougelike tier list I'd expect to find Rouge on it. The game after the genre was named.
I’ve probably spent more time on Vault of the Void than any other roguelike (got most of the challenge coins at max difficulty and level 30+ insanity in regular mode), and it’s the best designed roguelike out of all I’ve played. There’s a great balance of hard enemies, combos, deckbuilding, map pathing, upgrades, etc - you have to make really insane combos to beat the game at higher difficulties, and there’s plenty of room to do that. Sometimes the deck revolves around a card, an artifact, a mechanic, a buff - you really never get the same run. Everything about the game is unique, and I didn’t like it much after I bought it, but it grew on me a lot after I picked it up later. Point being, it does not deserve the lowest tier.
Yeah, it's actually probably the most revered new Deckbuilder after STS and Monster Train in the community. I follow Roguelike deckbuilder groups on Reddit and discord and most would be shocked to see it bellow most of the others. But it's his opinion of course.
I do love Noita, and fully agree, What I think is my favorite moment is when I created a wand so powerful it could oneshot nearly anything, it did multiple damage types while casting a powerful spell every frame it collided with an enemy, and I could throw them out quite quickly. That on itself is not that special, however just as I beat one of the more annoying bosses, my wand ran out of mana, since some of the components where quite intensive, it does that a lot. However this time, it had just enough mana to cast all the relevant spells (about 500 or so mana) then however it lacked enough to cast the wand refresh (20 mana), so it dipped into the rest of the spells that where thrown on there randomly, mostly as storage. Turns out that the first castable spell (2 mana) is one that enables friendly fire in trade for damage. Of course this late game wand has 3 different ways to lock on targets, so I destroy the boss, with this wand I have been using for a good half hour now, and spontaneously explode. It took me a good 10 rewatches of the death replay and an hour of thinking before coming up with the idea that this is what happened. Noita 9/10, would not recommend to most people. the 40 min 2 hours or 2000 is a lie, I am at a comfortable 300 ish. Also shoutout to the very classic roguelike: Shattered pixel dungeon.
Have you heard of Otxo before? It's a roguelike shooter with a top-down perspective focused on fast and super intense gun fights in tight spaces. Though it's more of a pure action game compared to Hotline miami's action puzzles, it does scratch a similar itch of top-down pixelated hyper-violence at almost unmanageable speed.
Another fun FPS Rogue would be Roboquest!!! Version 1.0 is coming super soon, been playing with a friend since Beta and EA, and we both joined the play test, love the game
Interestingly, while this list contains way more roguelikes than I've played, there are quite a few games that aren't on the list that I kinda expected to be there. Dicey Dungeon, Wildfrost, Slice & Dice (Not the one that's on steam), Griftlands, Into the Breach and For The King. However, all of these would probably land somewhere in the B tier for me anyways. But there is one game that I really feel like should've been on this list, and it not being there probably means you haven't played it yet, which should be rectified: We Who Are About To Die A physics-based gladiator combat roguelike, that's very different from most roguelikes on the market. It is a game that does focus more on learning how to use the physic system to win fights, rather than getting powerful combinations of items. The most important decisions are actually the decisions you make between fights, you choose what to spend your money and reputation on, but also what kind of fight you will take on next, heavily leaning into the risk/reward. Before each fight, you will be presented multiple fight options, and the safer fights tend to pay out less than the risky fights. You can for example take a fight where you and 3 other gladiators gang up on 1 guy, you'd have to almost actively try to die to have your run end in such a fight, but the amount of money you'll get will be low. On the other hand you could decide to fight against 7 enemies on your lonesome. You'll probably die, but if you by some miracle don't, you'll get enough money to give yourself a huge boost.
Agreed, I’ve had this game recommended to me many times throughout the years and I’ve been eager to try it out, just haven’t found the time yet. Going to be trying it out on my steam deck in just a few weeks ;)
Vault of the Void being D tier is crazy. It might not be as good as Slay The Spire but it offers more strategy and complexity while still being a loyal iteration of its (for a lack of a better word) simpler predecessor.
I ended up playing it some more after many comments about it and I do agree, my rating was quite unfair. I ended up re-rating it on a new tier list I will be uploading in the coming days 🌶️
It’s a shame you didn’t have “Into the breach” on this list. It was made by the same team that made FTL and was a blast to play. I can’t exactly put everything about the game in a single RUclips comment, but generally, it’s a game where you control 3 mechs and you take on missions on 4 different islands and fight off the Vek (big alien bugs) and complete the mission objectives. The thing is, you know what every Vek is going to do on its turn as well as the turn order of every Vek on the field. You have your turn with your mechs first and either interrupt, kill, or ignore each other Vek to prevent them from damaging the island’s power grid. If you like turn based strategy roguelikes, I’d recommend Into the Breach.
Oh yeah, I’m a huge fan of Into the Breach. I only started playing it after making this tier list but will be reviewing it in a future second tier list video. I featured it in my most recent video ;)
Some recommendations for you that you did not mention: RoboQuest, Returnal, Mosa Lina, Cross Blitz, Froggy's Battle, Raining Blood: Hellfire, Death Roads Tournament, Soda Crisis, Balatro (poker roguelike and my favorite out of all the others) and Cobalt Core!
great vid! some other games to consider on next tier list: alina of the arena, ember knights, beneath oresa, legend of Keepers, curse of the dead gods, darkest dungeon II, downfall - a slay the spire fan expansion, halls of torment, yet another zombie survivors, dome keeper
Ok, like most people watching this list, i found a good few new games to add to my wishlist, and got more excited for some of the ones i havent gotten to yet.....but, major spoilers for the list ahead I never wouldve expected peglin to be a game i would care to try out, unless someone like you gave it a spotlight like you did. The minimal lead up to just dropping it in s tier was also hilarious to watch and totally caught me off guard.
Gunfire Reborn is great, which is an extra shame that 505game fked the Xbox port. Took them like 5-6 months to fix the game, and as far as I know, still hasn't got any of the DLC that PC has, and it's been a year since it released on Xbox
I definitely agree I wanted more out of EtG. A level of content more on par with TBOI would make it a fully satisfying experience that truly never gets old. In its current state, I don't feel much desire to keep playing it long after unlocking everything, personally. There's just not that much challenge or RNG variety once you get good. What I did play was some of my favorite gaming I've ever done, but the game really could've been so much more and it's a shame there's no hope to ever have another update. It could've used more bosses that are actually truly challenging even after getting good, or more variety between runs, like more interesting secret floors and more varied gameplay between characters. I have a similar issue with RoR2 in that the only big hard bosses are Mithrix and Voidling. The former doesn't take that long to get easy and kinda boring and the latter is just a plain bad and unfun boss to fight. There's still enough challenge in the rest of the run itself, especially in Eclipse, but I would still love better harder bosses. Umbral Mithrix mod can solve this, but that's a mod. Though, unlike EtG, we're gonna get more updates which may solve the game's flaws.
Hey y’all! Thank you for watching! If you enjoyed the video, please consider leaving a like. It’s free and it helps out the channel.
I just released a video on the topic, "why the definition of a Roguelike is so controversial." Check it out: ruclips.net/video/zOpfReqrq-0/видео.html
I'm looking forward to that video as someone who hates the definition of Roguelike as it spawned Roguelite and I feel like if we just redefined Roguelike we could finally drop the Roguelite term cause it's point is pretty much useless.
@@NeoCinnamon I just call proper roguelikes "traditional roguelikes" at this point. I'm still an old grump who believe that 95% of the games on this list are not roguelikes, but I can't be bothered with the argument anymore.
@@ataronchronon well you aren't wrong, most things nowadays are rougelites, I'd say 95% is a fair estimate. That's the issue, the subgenre to the genre has way more entries than that of the non subgenre.
Either we redefine what Roguelike is and call those that aren't roguelites, as you said proper or traditional rougelikes, and the rest is just roguelikes.
Or we make roguelikes the subgenre or something I don't know.
Nice list. One game that im surprised is missing from this list is: Griftlands. An excellent deckbuilder with a decent story. Love the doubledeck-aspect of the game and the challenges that it brings with the higher difficulty system. Check it out if you havent!
Next do roughlites
Crab Champions was actually made by THE SAME GUY that created Crab Rave, both the song and the music video, as a solo developer.
You happen it's current state of balancing?
It looks really fun, but this guy says last time he played it was pretty shotty
I remember hearing about it but I wasn’t sure.. Massive props to him, doing it all by himself. I will be checking it out again because I do think the game has great potential ;)
BBC
@@nopizzawithoutpineappleit’s fun
@@nopizzawithoutpineapple I played a couple weeks ago and it was a lot more balanced and I really like it but I don't play it too often, but that's mostly because I have too many games and not because it's a bad game.
timestamps, music and footage for every game on a THREE HOURS video is an insane ammount of effort. i wish i could sub 10 times
make a bunch of alt accounts
Came to argue with your thumbnail on Dead Cells being C tier, stayed for really engaging commentary and an in-depth ranking of several great games, only to then see the true placement. Well played.
Great list, thanks for including Crab Champions- I completely agree with the placement, it's my first game and I've a LOT to improve on in pretty much every aspect before it can be in any way competitive- learning a lot with each update. I've made a large amount of balance changes for the next update that'll be out in the next month or so (I saw in another comment that you may check it out again so maybe worth holding off until that update is out before you do).
My original goal was to allow players to completely break the game with the right combinations but there are a lot of ways this can happen too easily so a lot of the most common power spikes are harder to get in this update: I still am on the side of allowing the game to be broken over a super balanced game (as I think it's just more fun) but there are many ways to do that more effectively than I'm doing now. Lots of content planned for the next few years, early days still!
P.S. Amazing work on your "What makes a good roguelike" video, you do a great job breaking down what makes the genre so good! I've been watching it on and off over the last few days and every section is packed with good stuff.
Thanks for the kind message! I’ve gotten back to the game and I must praise you for adding very impactful improvements through the updates. I always respect single developers, awesome job.
I’m currently working on a video series where I talk about the design process of certain Roguelikes with interviews from the developers and I think this game is a great example of constant learning and improving. If you’re interested, I might want to eventually reach out ;)
@@PepperHeadGamingAbsolutely interested, that sounds like a very cool idea.
Let me get the game into good shape and then it’ll be fun to explore the journey getting there 🦀
Sounds good. I’m finishing up a couple videos in the meantime. Feel free to reach out to me on Discord at Pepper Head Gaming. Looking forward to future updates ;) 🌶️
Make this happen!!
Hey noisestorm. I just want to let you know that my wife and I love crab champions and we look forward to every update. It is a really fun game for us to play as a couple. We also play risk of rain 2 and gunfire reborn, but we prefer crab champions because it is kind of a nice balance between the two. Anyways, we love what you're doing and look forward to the game's completion.
Kinda weird Don't starve is considered a roguelike just because of the permanent death that's like calling Minecraft hard mode a roguelike.
I actually agree. That’s when the Roguelike terms starts getting a bot twisted.. But it does "unfortunately" have the Roguelike tag on steam so I still felt like bringing it up. I probably should of mentioned it being a bit less of a Roguelike all things considered.
And randomly generated levels/enemies.. its def a roguelike
@@Shellll No.
@@Shellll Minecraft is also randomly generated lol
@@dramotarker1352 my favorite roguelike
If you think you are wasting your time in this life, remember me, who watched all this, just to see actual rank of Tales of Majeyal.
You just like me fr
Watched the whole video and now I feel sorry for you 😂
This dude managed to make a video called "Ranking The Best DESIGNED Roguelikes", then includes exactly 1 roguelike game in the total list and then does not rank it. Hahahaha!
I actually enjoy the real roguelike games but it is a smaller market and this new wave of roguelites has messed with the definition of roguelike games as well. Because actual roguelike games are not as popular, most people don't seem to care about the abuse of the name. It does annoy me.
@@timm8998Yeah, I get your frustration. I’ve become used to it by now but the new “roguelikes” feel nothing like the original. Ragnarok on DOS was my favorite. :)
Yeah, my 1057hr in ToME are screaming...
The interesting thing about Darkest Dungeon is that it's actually easier to list the things you cannot control than it is to list the things you can control. The key to success is just game knowledge and once you have it it is quite easy to complete the game deathless consistently.
The issue is that a lot of the information on various mechanics are buried in change logs or in the game files themselves which means that a lot of people don't get to see how everything works which makes the game feel more random. The nice thing is that the community as a whole has done a lot of work moving this information onto various wikis and hubs for the game. There are also many comprehensive community guides that cumulatively cover the entire game and all DLC, which is part of the reason that the game is still alive years later.
The amount of effort put into this and your previous video is absolutely insane, definitely earned a sub from me
I find Hades to be really incredible and I played it all throughout early access from day one, but it’s lacking in the kind of long term replayability that games like Isaac, STS, and Gungeon have. Feels like once you’ve gotten through the story and leveled the weapon aspects that there’s really nothing left for you. You’re always fighting the same bosses, weapon aspects kind of lock you into a certain boon build path right from the jump, it’s always the same maps, and the limit of one weapon boon/one dash boon/etc. really hurts the crazy one more run to see what you can do feeling of other games. High A tier for me.
Agreed. The beauty of Hades is the action combat, but the systems behind the scenes are pretty barebones compared to say BOI which has so many variables that can alter a run at any given time. All Hades has is the weapons/buffs you go in with and the boons/upgrades you get during the run.
Imo, that lack of longevity keeps Hades out of the ‘best roguelike’ conversation.
@@Maskeroff.I’d say the story makes up for it. It’s def the best story out of all of these besides Inscryption
Agreed.
I feel like I'm really missing something in your comment -- you do know about Hades' heat system, right? It's also a game, like he mentioned, that many people speedrun. It has a ton of replayability after beating the final boss. Haelian is a perfect example of someone who continues to milk Hades for content.
Thank you so much for putting gameplay during the tier list, this is such a game changer and awsome inclusion!
This feels like more of an objective list which felt nice, even with some games I like being lower your analysis I felt was very "fair" and I appreciate when people do lists like this to help broaden my knowledge of available roguelike games to try out in the future :)
What a video! And so under-rated. As an long time youtube lurker, this video is so nice to listen to, compare your experience, find recomendations and so on and so forth. Love the Darkest Dungeon review, hits hard...but I have to say, mods is THE thing that keeps DD fresh. New characters, items, rebalances and even regions. Still a violent experience...
Thanks a lot! Ah yeah I could imagine the modding community being pretty great for a game as such.. I might check that out ;)
So sad to see Nuclear Throne rated so low, personally I have not found a single twin stick roguelike that scratches the same itch for me. The characters, weapons, and mutations are fun and interesting and you can definitely get a lot of variety in your builds. The enemies and bosses are also really cool, especially the way that boss scaling in handled in the loops. Things like big bandit doubling, or mom getting faster, big dog leaving smaller gaps in their attacks and missiles firing bullets, etc.
Agreed, i think nuclear throne is a real hidden gem. I think if it were released today, it would get a lot more attention.
I do indeed think the game is very well designed and has much to it. If the game would have gotten more updates throughout the years as Isaac did, it could have been an easy S tier for me ;)
@@PepperHeadGamingI mean,the people who made NT got tired of the development to the game because they wanted to get back to their routes,making tons of very small games. They really did just get sick of it as far as I remember.
Nuclear Throne is a game? I just refer to my toilet as that after eating Taco Bell.
I actually like Nuclear Throne MORE for not feeling the need to shoehorn updates in every x amount of months to try to keep their game relevant. I find a lot of games just keep adding content to the point they get bloated and unbalanced and even lose some of the cohesion or the feel of it's original incarnation, and given this was a "best DESIGNED" tier list, I'm surprised you detracted that much from it for simply not spoon-feeding content drops. Nuclear Throne still holds up today as an amazingly well balance, well designed, awesome themed, spectacular game. It definitely sits somewhere between S tier and a very high A for me.
@@PepperHeadGaming
Really surprised monolith (now rebranded as star of providence) isn’t on here. It’s got an overwhelmingly positive rating and is in my opinion one of the best out there. It’s also getting a giant update at some point under video game dunkey’s publishing company.
I’ve heard that one before… Added to the wishlist ;)
Fantastic game, I still call it monolith! Though I think @PepperHeadGaming will agree, the upgrades don't change your play style, at all, it's hetic and you're constantly on the move with the dash bullet hell style, but the upgrades you're kinda chosing the one that fires the fastest with the most damage. REGARDLESS as a bullet hell game, one of my fave.
Yeah Monolith is amazing!
-Tiny Rogues is receiving a HUGE update on december, that will TRIPLE the content that is already in the game. The dev said yesterday that the amount of items in the game will go from 150 to 500; he's also adding alternative levels for each existing level, and a new set of secret levels that you can go after you beat the final boss, all new levels with their new respective bosses and enemies. If that was not enough, he said this update would be 0.2v or so, so if you trust in this dev's commitment (he's certainly hard-working), this would only be about 20-25% of the full game, which is an insane perspective.
-Revita's dev recently announced on Twitter the update is no longer happening, apparently because of lack of support from its publisher or something related with hard-to-meet deadlines and so.
-Another simple game with a ton of content (and it's about 70% completed in early access) is The Void Rains Upon Her Heart, a bullet hell shmup roguelite with an insane amount of achivements. Def one of my faves
-Monolith is another recomendation, that I've seen commented already. Def one of the bests if you, again, like bullet hell/shumps. It has an update in the works for quite some time now, and maybe even a future DLC planned.
Vault of the Void is one of the best deckbuilder roguelikes with unique mechanics etc.!
Your negative points mostly had nothing to do with the game itself but with the artstyle/graphics.
Of course not every game is everyones cup of tea BUT then name your list accordingly aka as YOUR PERSONAL best!
I love the editing with clips of the gameplay and timestamps for these tier lists, this is how a tier list should be
Okay, I am one minute into the only video I have seen from you but I already love you since you put links to the music you use. This is amazing.
I respect your opinion, but the spelunky games got done so dirty, two of the most meticulously designed games I’ve ever played,
But it seems you have a preference for a different style of game mechanics I get that. much respect ❤️
Brotato on A tier and spelunky 1 and 2 on B and C tier, what a big skill issue
Hive Jump 2: Survivors has entered the fray! Adds Jetpack for more unique stage traversal across bespoke levels within a sci-fi aesthetic + Starship Trooper vibes!
Crab champions in C tier? you gotta try it again, its had a few major updates and I think the issues you addressed have been mostly fixed, its a high B now imo
That’s great to hear. Definitely going to give it an other try!
1:10:35 fun fact, Hades has more than 20,000 separate voice lines spanning over 300,000 words, with Zagreus having a total of around 8,500 voice lines
Thank you so much for your thoroughness! Shame Crying Suns and Dicey Dungeons are not in the video though.
For the few games in this list that I have played personally:
1:01 - 20 Minutes Till Down is indeed a middle-of-the-road game. Very enjoyable to play for a bit, but doesn't have much to set it apart. It's just your average solid roguelike.
2:13 - I'm surprised Across The Obelisk managed to reach A tier, especially since this is judged from a singleplayer perspective. I'm definitely not complaining that it's so high, I really love the game myself, but while playing it alone, I always wished I had more people to play it with, because managing 4 decks of cards on my own felt pretty overwhelming
7:51 - Backpack Hero has a pretty neat concept, but I noticed myself getting bored with the game pretty quickly and I didn't even know there were different characters in the game until I watched this video. So yeah, C-tier does reflect my own experience with the game
36:03 - I'm surprised Darkest Dungeon is on this list, but the second game isn't. The second game is structured like a roguelike, meanwhile the first game is more of a campaign, the closest thing it has to the roguelike genre is the random levels and enemies. But yeah, the RNG during fights really holds this game back, and the cycle of playing for a few hours, leaving for a year and then coming back is very recognizable. I'd probably have put it in A-tier, but I do think B tier is perfectly reasonable.
58:55 - FTL is really good, I agree that mods shouldn't be taken into account when ranking the game, but it's really hard not to take the multiverse mod into account as it feels really vanilla, and manages to expand on it a bunch. I'm tempted to put the base game in S as well, but it probably does belong in A tier, but if you can take the multiverse mod into account, it's an easy S-tier.
1:09:30 - Hades is S-tier no question. Voice acting, Visuals, Gameplay, Story and Characters, this game manages to excel in all of them. This is a "Jack of all traits, Master of ALL".
1:18:08 - I don't think I can really say much more about Inscryption than you've already said, because I really shouldn't spoil this game. Kaycee's Mod is worth mentioning tho, which, despite having "mod" in the name, is made by the devs, and allows you to enjoy the roguelike aspect of the game, without progressing the story. Inscryption as a whole does deserve S-tier, but not because it's a good roguelike, just because it's a good game.
1:20:28 - Loop hero gains extra points in my eyes for having very unique mechanics and executing them really well. I also love the music of the game. For me, it's definitely A-tier, and it's the first game where I do disagree with the placement on this list (but I do understand why it's placed in B-tier).
1:36:41 - I'm surprised Noita didn't make it to S-tier, it just has so much going for it. Secrets, depth, replay value, interesting concept. Noita has it all.
1:42:40 - Whenever I see One Step From Eden, I get a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. Thinking about the game just always makes me happy, yet, there is no way I'd ever put it higher than the B-tier. It's weird how connected I feel to the game despite having played it way less than most other roguelikes, and me generally not being a fan of fast-paced games. The game has very good music, which is probably why Violet is one of my favorite bosses in all of gaming. Her moves follow the beat of the music, and her boss theme sounds amazing.
1:48:12 - Wow, I'm really surprised to see Peglin in S-tier. To be fair, I've played a lot of Peglin myself as well and I have to admit that the concept just works. But still, S-tier?! Saying it's a random S-tier is very accurate. I really can't justify putting it higher than A tier for myself, because, unlike the other S-tiers, I really can't say this one is a masterpiece. But I can respect it, the game is quite addicting.
2:03:52 - My thoughts on Rogue Tower are exactly the same. I love tower defense, I love roguelike, this game combines the 2 and has so much potential, but the tower upgrades don't feel very special. Also, small correction: you said it's a roguelike rather than a roguelite, but it has a bunch of permantent upgrades you can spend your money on in-between runs, so it definitely is a roguelite and I doubt it's beatable on your first run.
2:21:15 - Shotgun King has an interesting concept, and it was fun for 1 run, but I got bored of the game extremely quickly and this is the only roguelike I've ever ended up refunding. D-tier for me. If you want a chess-based roguelike, I'd recommend The Ouroboros King. It more closely follows the rules of chess and has more variety than shotgun king does.
2:29:01 - Ah yes, the classic, Slay The Spire. While I wouldn't put it above Hades personally, it's just a really solid, well-balanced, deckbuilding roguelike and the game that most new deckbuilding roguelikes base themselves on.
2:58:02 - Vampire Survivors has no right being this good, just unlocking everything in the game gives you hours of content, and that's not even taking into account all the secrets. It has popularized the genre that's currently known as "bullet heaven" where instead of the enemies sending so many bullets at you that it's a hell to dodge, instead you're the one who is sending a bunch of bullets everywhere to keep yourself safe from the enemy. This honestly deserves an S-tier in my eyes.
3:07:12 - I'm surprised to see Wildermyth on the list, as it can barely be considered a roguelike. I personally really like the game and would put it in A-tier, but not because it's a good roguelike, rather because it's just a good game. It'd be S-tier if it had more than just 3 very basic classes. To be fair, these classes can be pushed in different directions that play quite differently from each other, but whenever you get a new character, they always feel same-ey and you need to invest in them before they get their own unique playstyle.
Inscryption has way more than just the campaign. The side mode 'Kaycees' mod' is way more balanced than the main game and its pretty much the entire reason i have 100+ hours in the game. if you haven't checked out Kaycees' mod please do. its honestly brilliant.
Yeah, the main campaign is misplaced on purpose for story reasons. But Kaycee's Mod has been balanced as a proper deck builder and it is so good.
About monster train, I was very "disappointed" when I played it, and because of one of your comments on the game: that it is challenging. It's not. I have to preface that I'm very used to deckbuilding games and card battlers so of course this is a strong factor.
The thing is, the deckbuilding part is meant to be accessible, which means that you are never overwhelmed with options to choose from. This also means that the deckbuilding part becomes limited quite fast if you're used to deckbuilding and once you got used to it in the game. About the difficulty, I always played in the max difficulty possible (don't remember how it's called in this game, equivalent to ascension levels in slay the spire). At around difficulty 7/8 I started all my runs with full randomization of the factions because I wanted more deckbuilding variety. I still went from there to max difficulty losing around 10% of the runs, most of the time because I made something very stupid after my brain got sleepy because of the low number of decisions that have to be taken (it's still my fault, and they count as losses, but it's not like I lost because the runs were hard).
That being said, I really enjoyed the game. I think I put in 40-50 hours, and no regrets. The deckbuilding part is on the baby side, but the gameplay of the battle themselves is very interesting and I loved it. If you're a deckbuilder veteran, the game is not hard but very enjoyable, and if you're like me it will be a chill experience all along and I still recommend the game, just don't think of it as a deep challenging game, it's not. I would still rate the game in low/mid A tier.
If you're not a veteran of this style, Monster Train is a great entry point into deckbuilders, and it will become challenging if you really want to push the difficulties as soon as possible. I would rate it very high A tier (I suspect it was rated from this point of view).
An unrelated grip I have with the game is that it doesn't allow to reduce the needed specs by removing particle effects or a lot of things. I find it baffling to need a GPU to play a f***ing card game. I was not able to play it until I bought a new desktop computer, as it didn't run on my laptop. I was playing Hades on my laptop, but Monster Train just doesn't run. wtf.
Overall it's still a very good game, I'm just surprised of seeing it being recommended after StS by a lot of people.
Was surprised you didn't mention how wild and original the guns in Gunfire Reborn are, although i'm sure you appreciate it because of how much you like that game. That's one of its' strongest points for me because the gun you choose to use shapes the playstyle so signficantly.
I have close to 7k hours into all the Isaac games and I still go back to it from time to time. With the mods that are constantly being released, the game just keeps getting better.
Great list and explanations! a few I would recommend to check out off the list are Synthetik Legion Rising, We Who Are About to Die, Mortal Glory, Otxo, Trials of Fire, and Doomsday Hunters!
Awesome, thanks for the recommendations, I always love adding more to my wishlist ;)
Guys belive Noita its instant SSS tier
Best roguelite cuz you have that much to learn for normal play and become GOD to play like a pro
I love roguelikes, like A LOT, they are easily more than 50% of my steam library, and i came here not to see the popular ones (Isaac, STS, risk of rain, etc)
But i love watching other roguelikes that i love that didn't get that much of attention being rated fairly high, like Moolighter, One step from eden and specially Wizard of legend, i love those games so much
Great video
I play STS vanilla and it's easily the greatest roguelike, imo. My favorite is Isaac but I can't deny the perfect balance of STS. The devs have refined it to flawlessness and it's such a rare thing to see, in modern gaming.
Great video! Sad to hear Spelunky isn't your thing. It's definitely my #1 roguelike spot along with Isaac.
Perhaps you also played something from this list? If not, consider it as a recommendations. Not all of them are actually good, but pretty unique for my taste:
AK-xolotl.
Airheart
Below
Colt Canyon
Crown Trick
Dead End Job
Dicey Dungeons
Dreamscaper
Gods will fall
Frost
Into the pit
Nongunz
Sea Salt
Tainted Grail: Conquest
The flame in the flood
Vambrace: Cold Soul
West of Dead
Oh thank you so very much for the recommendations. I am adding many games to my wishlist hoping to play most recommended Roguelikes before the end of the year. I’ll check those out ;)
Spelunky didn’t have the weak to overpowered fantasy that keeps me playing in this genre, I wish I could get into it or the sequel but it never feels rewarding to me 😢
try NOITA
Love seeing DC and RoR2 land in S-tier. Imo, they’re the genre’s peak.
This is honestly really awesome and i appreciate making a tier list with so many games! A lot of these look really interesting and i kind of wanna try them out ngl. I never would've discovered them without this honestly! Great job.
I still think one of the best designed games I’ve ever played, over 45 years, is Dungeoncrawl Stone Soup.
So surprised atomicrops isnt on here. Have you played it?? it was the most chaotic roguelite / like ive played (then i played voidigo) but i think its super fun and unique
i was thinking this too! i loveee atomicrops
A friend and i where playing a little nuclear throne drinking game. Everytime we would lose a coop round we had to drink a shot of rum.
We didn't expect anything aside from playing worse and drinking more.
But at one point we hit a magical sweetspot. We played so well we were not drinking for almost an hour.
I love this game.
And rougelikes in general.
Let me choose one genre for the rest of my life and i would choose rougelikes.
there are a lot of roguelike tierlist, but i loved this one, and i feel it's the closest to my own tastes
If you think Darkest Dungeon is just chaotic, you just haven't played enough to discover the multiple layers of knowledge, when it becomes very satisfying. But yes the learning is brutal. But for me, the graphics and artistic direction, music and so on are so GOOD that it made me keep going at it.
My main problem with it was that i had no way of knowing how good/bad i was doing for hours. Id play for like 5 hours until i knew where i was at, and then i had to compile the information of what i did in the past 5 hours together, which not only made it very time consuming to learn but also difficult to accurately pinpoint what actions lead to what events. Ive always appreciated the more straight forward approach of isaac and the likes where you pick up an item, experiencing the effect immediately and allowing you to assess that single item rather than the run as a whole
Nice video!
Also add "Dungreed Soundtrack - 16. Towngreed" to the music used list, drove me mad till I remembered where it was from.
I've tried and failed to get into roguelikes several times. But over the last 2 weeks I've been binging the only RL to finally work for me: Wizard of Legend
Peglin is so good. It just turn your brain into klick klack goblin mode
Agreed but would you really put it S-tier?
Very happy to hear you give dungreed a good word, my favourite roguelite and deserves more attention
One I've been enjoying recently is Ember Knights... a fun co-op Roguelike
why did tales of maj'eyal dissappear from your list (between sundered 2 and tangledeep)?
Have you played Into the Breach? I'm interested to know where it would land for you. For me it's probably landing in high A or S, and I typically prefer action over turn based games.
You are not the first to being that one up to me. I was even considering playing it before the Tier list but didn’t have the time. Definitely trying it out in the next few weeks.
Shotgun King was made in a game jam, and was so well received that the developers continued to work on it to release it as a finished and more polished game, so its normal that its not to long.
Those are the kinds of stories I love to hear. Great job on the developers!
@@PepperHeadGaming have you ever played WazHack by any chance?
Just saw what makes a great roguelike last night, and look a new upload!
I love rougelike and rougelite games, I love tier list videos, and I love long form youtube videos (seriously my favorite youtube video of all time is 3 and a half hours long, mgs4 was a mistake) so I have a feeling I am going to absolutely love this video.
Love this video, Thank you for taking the time to put it all together. I have been in a roguelike mood lately, and been playing a lot of them but I hadn't heard of several games in your list that I am going to check out!
You have some opinions that I definitely agree with. The vast majority of them, to be honest. I've kind of fallen of roguelite games specifically, I get tired of them starting you out so damn weak and trickle feeding you upgrades so that it'll take you a super long time to beat. But, I have played most of these and I appreciate you including SO MANY games.
Great vid, enjoyed watching. Returnal is one of my favorite roguelikes. It’s more of a campaign style game, but like Hades you get more story for completing a run. There aren’t many 3rd person bullet hell shooters with AAA level visuals in the roguelike field.
Amazing visual
A 3 hours tier list video? Sign me up, I know what I'll be watching for the next days, haha
Finally finished the video. Very solid list. The only one I disagree with is Peglin. I really want to like that game, but every time I play it it just makes me angry. Too much rng for my taste.
You have to check Into the Breach if you haven't. That's a nice puzzle roguelike from the same dudes that made FTL if I remember correctly.
When they first announced RoR2 and said it'd be 3D I was honestly kind of disappointed. I couldn't see any way they'd translate the 2D to 3D gameplay. But they absolutely nailed it and it became my favourite roguelike the moment I got through the first stage. Man does that game feel good to play.
Also the music is amazing, just like the first one
😂😂😂 the thumbnail bated me. Good job
Just stumbled across this pocket of roguelike heaven, been playing them since booting Nuclear Throne and Darkest Dungeon in high school (instead of doing assignments sometimes too.) A tiny bit sad to not see Everspace as I love that game dearly and would highly recommend to anyone looking for a pure visual spectacle, being one of the most gorgeous games I've ever laid eyes on. The raw rogue elements do lack but I feel it makes up for that through gameplay fluidity and feedback, watching spaceships explode never gets old, after all.
Not sure how Noita isn't S class lol
Imagine
The game, the mechanics, the depth of of gameplay, simulation. Everything is awesome. But the game itself isn't really fun, and overly sadistic.
You are either clueless, and happen to die randomly, or lnow everything about it, to the point where it becomes almost trivial.
It is interesting to explore the world and it's mysteries, main gameplay loop isn't very fun.
I take my words back, once you get into advanced stuff, there is this mix of thrill and discovery like nowhere else 😮
It’s because a lot of people know difficult games like the dark souls series, but get put off by the difficulty and accept it’s probably a good game, “but it’s too hard for me”. These games are constantly viewed highly because the 2000 hour people enjoy it so much and the others want to share that sentiment. The problem is accessibility which is very important in viewing games as consumer products and minor entertainment, but less important when viewing games as works of art.
That's how all games start. You start with no fucking clue what you're doing, improve in both skill and knowledge over time, then you can stomp the game easily. Even games that are supposed to be absurdly hard, like Fear And Hunger, run with that. The learning curve might have different slopes for different games, but they all follow the same formula: git gud. @@parisulki729
A bit late here but One Step From Eden is my favorite rougelike of all time! Honestly I'm not a super big fan of the genre and only a few really stick out to me, though something about the gameplay is incredibly smooth and the sfx (and soundtrack) are a complete eargasm. It's a lot of trial and error like you said but learning the spells and figuring out which ones you enjoy using or not and building your ideal deck through a run is super fun!
Bro, Spelunky 1 & 2 are S. And they actually roguelike.
Your last video was really good, excited to watch this
Thanks for the long video and the roguelike recommendations! I generally agree with a lot of the tierlist - I would put some games a few tiers higher or lower (especialy crypt of the necrodancer, vault of the void and rogue legacy 2), but it's all pretty sensible.
For vault of the void it might be kind of hard to get into, but I think it does a lot to minimize the feeling of losing a run because you drew a bad hand or because you were not given the right stuff, and it's in my top 3 favorites of the genrea. The threat system is basically that enemies do damage to you 1 turn later than normal, giving you another hand to draw and plan. You are also able to discard cards in hand for energy, which makes planning a turn pretty fun while also meaning that if you had a bad hand you can just stock up energy for next turn. It also feels pretty unique that at any time before a fight you can change your deck to fit the fight, as it is always 20 cards but also always customizable. It is also the kind of game that can get really nuts with the damage and synergies if you know what you are doing.
As for some games that weren't mentioned - I was surprised you haven't played nova drift yet, since even though it's still in early access it has a ton of content. It has some of the best build creation out of any roguelike imo (20 minutes til dawn took some inspiration from it). The void rains upon her heart is also one of the best roguelike shmup games currently out there (still 100% positive on steam right now!). Monolith is amazing in the same genrea too. Also, into the breach is a really well designed game and got a major update recently from the makers of FTL. Ziggurat 2 is also one of the best FPS roguelikes, it improved a lot on the first game. Slice and dice is a really amazing roguelike strategy game. On a personal note, Synthetik 1 is my favorite action roguelike of all time, it just feels amazing when you get into it. Lastly, OTXO is basically roguelike hotline miami.
Bro, keep up your good youtube work. I love you videos very much. I've already bought a lot of games based on your recommendation, great.
Great video and list! Most games that I have played from it I would rank more or less the same - in fact, the highest tiered out of these games that I've played (StS, Hades, Dead Cells, Inscryption) I have in my top 10 of all time AND in the same order...
I have two extra recommendations for fans of roguelike deckbuilders that are not on this list: Cobalt Core and Griftlands.
Cobalt Core takes a LOT from StS but with very different playstyles and the addition of 2D navigation. This is an easy high A-tier for me, probably just above Roguebook.
GL is a heavily story-based deckbuilder where you can resolve conflict with either your combat or your negotiation deck. The one detail that makes this not A but B-tier for me: a run takes a bit too long, often 3+ hours, which stifles the replayability.
I would love yo see your opinion/a review on death road to canada, if you're looking for new roguelikes right now i would 100% recommend it!
I'd put Neon Abyss at a mid to lower A tier. The weapons are very different and the perks were very fun. I also loved the art style that made it feel close to Enter The Gungeon.
This is ultimate guide to what to play in this genre, thanx for time and effort you put in this!
Thanks for making this - watched the entire 3 hours. I'm a big roguelike/lite fan and learned about some new ones here to try out. Hades is my all-time favorite. Here are some that you should check out that I didn't see on your list - Darkest Dungeon 2, Ravenswatch, Wildfrost and Robo Quest.
bro i love deadcells, but noita dificulty isn't ever close to enter the gungeon, noita is a WALK IN A PARK when you have one thing: KNOWLEDGE, i actly put noita above any game, but i totaly agree, when you don't know the tricks/tech you is just a litle insect, but learning will turn you into a ivunerable god, i love the game, but i was not able to see how this game is the pinacle of gaming is future... a physics roguelike, cud become a sandbox like minecraft, if one day someone create a sandbox survival with this physic quality but in 3D this game will MURDER all other games, will be a complete monopoly in the game industry, this isn't possible now with the tecnology of to day... but trust me, tecnology can change from water to wine in 5 years, if someone discover a super conductor we will have smartphones with quantun computers on it, there is also research of a new semiconductor that was areadly ben dicovered that can add 1000% more computing power to chips, they're seeking for cheaper substitute materials for this semiconductor, since the materials/elements of it to day cost a fortune
Surprised there was no Highfleet on the list. A game with fantastic and very layered complexity, and incredible replay value.
Blud unironically placing Hades higher than TBoI 💀💀💀💀💀💀
I give this video S Tier... holy shit man, awesome work, even i disagree with some (Spelunky 2 and Rogue Legacy 2 are S tier), very ejoyable video to watch, 3 hours of pure quality, thank you.
Even tho we disagree in many things its always good to hear informed opinions, it can open one's perspective. Thanks for showing all these games i love roguelikes/lites, ive already played most of them but ive found some new ones to try.
I recommend you to play Recettear (one of my favorite games), its the same general concept as Moonlighter but i hated ML so much, the combat was terrible imo.
No "dungeon of dreadmore"? ... cataclysm dark days ahead? Ancient domains of mystery? If you're making a rougelike tier list I'd expect to find Rouge on it. The game after the genre was named.
Exactly, this video is leaning HARD on the Roguelike term here. Most of these are barely even Roguelites themself
I’ve probably spent more time on Vault of the Void than any other roguelike (got most of the challenge coins at max difficulty and level 30+ insanity in regular mode), and it’s the best designed roguelike out of all I’ve played. There’s a great balance of hard enemies, combos, deckbuilding, map pathing, upgrades, etc - you have to make really insane combos to beat the game at higher difficulties, and there’s plenty of room to do that. Sometimes the deck revolves around a card, an artifact, a mechanic, a buff - you really never get the same run. Everything about the game is unique, and I didn’t like it much after I bought it, but it grew on me a lot after I picked it up later. Point being, it does not deserve the lowest tier.
Yeah, it's actually probably the most revered new Deckbuilder after STS and Monster Train in the community.
I follow Roguelike deckbuilder groups on Reddit and discord and most would be shocked to see it bellow most of the others.
But it's his opinion of course.
I do love Noita, and fully agree,
What I think is my favorite moment is when I created a wand so powerful it could oneshot nearly anything, it did multiple damage types while casting a powerful spell every frame it collided with an enemy, and I could throw them out quite quickly.
That on itself is not that special, however just as I beat one of the more annoying bosses, my wand ran out of mana, since some of the components where quite intensive, it does that a lot. However this time, it had just enough mana to cast all the relevant spells (about 500 or so mana) then however it lacked enough to cast the wand refresh (20 mana), so it dipped into the rest of the spells that where thrown on there randomly, mostly as storage. Turns out that the first castable spell (2 mana) is one that enables friendly fire in trade for damage. Of course this late game wand has 3 different ways to lock on targets, so I destroy the boss, with this wand I have been using for a good half hour now, and spontaneously explode.
It took me a good 10 rewatches of the death replay and an hour of thinking before coming up with the idea that this is what happened.
Noita 9/10, would not recommend to most people.
the 40 min 2 hours or 2000 is a lie, I am at a comfortable 300 ish.
Also shoutout to the very classic roguelike: Shattered pixel dungeon.
Have you heard of Otxo before? It's a roguelike shooter with a top-down perspective focused on fast and super intense gun fights in tight spaces. Though it's more of a pure action game compared to Hotline miami's action puzzles, it does scratch a similar itch of top-down pixelated hyper-violence at almost unmanageable speed.
Best content in youtube
that downwell placement was EVIL
...but it belongs there
Another fun FPS Rogue would be Roboquest!!! Version 1.0 is coming super soon, been playing with a friend since Beta and EA, and we both joined the play test, love the game
Interestingly, while this list contains way more roguelikes than I've played, there are quite a few games that aren't on the list that I kinda expected to be there.
Dicey Dungeon, Wildfrost, Slice & Dice (Not the one that's on steam), Griftlands, Into the Breach and For The King. However, all of these would probably land somewhere in the B tier for me anyways.
But there is one game that I really feel like should've been on this list, and it not being there probably means you haven't played it yet, which should be rectified:
We Who Are About To Die
A physics-based gladiator combat roguelike, that's very different from most roguelikes on the market.
It is a game that does focus more on learning how to use the physic system to win fights, rather than getting powerful combinations of items.
The most important decisions are actually the decisions you make between fights, you choose what to spend your money and reputation on, but also what kind of fight you will take on next, heavily leaning into the risk/reward.
Before each fight, you will be presented multiple fight options, and the safer fights tend to pay out less than the risky fights.
You can for example take a fight where you and 3 other gladiators gang up on 1 guy, you'd have to almost actively try to die to have your run end in such a fight, but the amount of money you'll get will be low.
On the other hand you could decide to fight against 7 enemies on your lonesome. You'll probably die, but if you by some miracle don't, you'll get enough money to give yourself a huge boost.
Into the breach is also a very fun game that could be considered to be a kind of rougelike
Agreed, I’ve had this game recommended to me many times throughout the years and I’ve been eager to try it out, just haven’t found the time yet. Going to be trying it out on my steam deck in just a few weeks ;)
It makes me sad seeing how few people know about othercide. It’s one of my favorite roguelikes
Noita review is spot on.
It's absolutely brutal.
My favourite drug of choice.
On my way to 4000 hours.
Hämis 👍
Voidigo is so well designed. Glad it’s on here.
Vault of the Void being D tier is crazy. It might not be as good as Slay The Spire but it offers more strategy and complexity while still being a loyal iteration of its (for a lack of a better word) simpler predecessor.
I ended up playing it some more after many comments about it and I do agree, my rating was quite unfair. I ended up re-rating it on a new tier list I will be uploading in the coming days 🌶️
@@PepperHeadGaming !!! I'm so glad to hear this! :D
It’s a shame you didn’t have “Into the breach” on this list. It was made by the same team that made FTL and was a blast to play. I can’t exactly put everything about the game in a single RUclips comment, but generally, it’s a game where you control 3 mechs and you take on missions on 4 different islands and fight off the Vek (big alien bugs) and complete the mission objectives.
The thing is, you know what every Vek is going to do on its turn as well as the turn order of every Vek on the field. You have your turn with your mechs first and either interrupt, kill, or ignore each other Vek to prevent them from damaging the island’s power grid.
If you like turn based strategy roguelikes, I’d recommend Into the Breach.
Oh yeah, I’m a huge fan of Into the Breach. I only started playing it after making this tier list but will be reviewing it in a future second tier list video. I featured it in my most recent video ;)
Before watching the video, I hope you didn't do my boy dirty
No S tier ranking for Noita is criminal
Some recommendations for you that you did not mention: RoboQuest, Returnal, Mosa Lina, Cross Blitz, Froggy's Battle, Raining Blood: Hellfire, Death Roads Tournament, Soda Crisis, Balatro (poker roguelike and my favorite out of all the others) and Cobalt Core!
crypt of the necrodancer in b tier (almost c tier) is criminal
great vid! some other games to consider on next tier list: alina of the arena, ember knights, beneath oresa, legend of Keepers, curse of the dead gods, darkest dungeon II, downfall - a slay the spire fan expansion, halls of torment, yet another zombie survivors, dome keeper
Downfall I certainly wouldn't count. It's just an unofficial expansion as part of STS anyway.
Ok, like most people watching this list, i found a good few new games to add to my wishlist, and got more excited for some of the ones i havent gotten to yet.....but, major spoilers for the list ahead
I never wouldve expected peglin to be a game i would care to try out, unless someone like you gave it a spotlight like you did. The minimal lead up to just dropping it in s tier was also hilarious to watch and totally caught me off guard.
Hades over Isaac is insane. C-Tier imo. It's a boring button mash fest, just not for me I guess.
omg, I just finished Inscryption 2 days ago, and that was such an amazing mind-fk.
spelunky c tier , come on , skill issue i see
Gunfire Reborn is great, which is an extra shame that 505game fked the Xbox port. Took them like 5-6 months to fix the game, and as far as I know, still hasn't got any of the DLC that PC has, and it's been a year since it released on Xbox
I know. My friends who don’t have Steam are super frustrated about it and so am I. Such a shame..
hades? s tier? lol
The game is spectacular what are you talking about
@@B0mbEaterlol
I definitely agree I wanted more out of EtG. A level of content more on par with TBOI would make it a fully satisfying experience that truly never gets old. In its current state, I don't feel much desire to keep playing it long after unlocking everything, personally. There's just not that much challenge or RNG variety once you get good. What I did play was some of my favorite gaming I've ever done, but the game really could've been so much more and it's a shame there's no hope to ever have another update. It could've used more bosses that are actually truly challenging even after getting good, or more variety between runs, like more interesting secret floors and more varied gameplay between characters.
I have a similar issue with RoR2 in that the only big hard bosses are Mithrix and Voidling. The former doesn't take that long to get easy and kinda boring and the latter is just a plain bad and unfun boss to fight. There's still enough challenge in the rest of the run itself, especially in Eclipse, but I would still love better harder bosses. Umbral Mithrix mod can solve this, but that's a mod. Though, unlike EtG, we're gonna get more updates which may solve the game's flaws.