How many did you get correct? 😅 EDIT: Looks like Donner has since changed the price a bit - sorry about that! This video was filmed over a month ago and they didn't bother to tell me... 🤷♂ Donner B1 (Use DOVENUS to save 15%) ► shrsl.com/3m8s9 New video coming next week - finally published this now that they're back in stock!
I used a super-scientific idea... The one that sounded the most "digital" to my ears would be Vital, the one that sounded "cheapest" (clipped, muffled, over or under filtered) would be the B1, and what was left would be the Polybrute. I scored 4/15 -- one less than you, and NONE of my correct answers were consistent, lol. My observation: the B1 makes much better 303 sounds than I thought it would. . .
I wasn't going to tell a specific synth without having first hand experience, so I was just trying to see how many distinct differences I can find. In test 4 Vital saw wave has significantly less base. But in test 1 it is not significantly different and B1 stands out with more high end harmonics. In test 2 the envelop on Vital is tighter and the resonance is more acidic. The envelop tightness follows it into test 3, but all filters become squelchy in that one, I assume you raised the res higher. In the last round, it feels like B1 filter produces less squelch compared to the other two, which is a bit counter-intuitive. I am not sure if it is a problem with YT audio, my ears or my phones, but it feels like some of the tests almost contradict each other. Like the raw saw wave in tests 1 and 4. Or was one of these sampled and one native in Vital?
As with any of these tests. They're pretty much always blind guesses. And sums up what we probably all already know: only synth heads really give a sh*t about what synth was used in a song. Your listener at home won't know or care, as long as it sounds good.
Depends on the ears also. I could clearly hear the difference between the recordings listening on an iPhone X and those speakers arent stellar quality either, but the point is still the same. If you don’t know the different synths very very well, as only a true autistic analog freak will it will at best be a guess, and absolutely noone is gonna be able to tell them apart in a finnished mix unless you exactly know how the mix has been processed.
I could definitely tell me my expensive analogue synth versus a free plugin in a blind test. Mostly as my analogue synth crackles every time you look at, the right channel is twice as loud as the left and the background hiss is deafening
I think what this video reminds me is that if you already have a blip bloop device, go make something with it. Yep, it’s nice to have a $3000 synth. But you can own a $150 synth or a free plugin and make stuff now. Don’t fret over “the sound” cause even professionals can’t really tell the difference and the tools matter less than what you make with them. Great video.
One of the most lush pad sounds I've ever heard was a 90s Casio plugged into a moderate-high end reverb pedal. It broke me as a man and made me re-evaluate my moral compass. I mean... It wasn't even a cz-101 or something actually synthie. It was like one of those rompler ones. Never underestimated the power of effects and context after that...
Those old cheap casio sounds can have some character, I'm gonna download a ps1 reverb impulse response I just learned about later, same thing about context there. Also, tell friends to give you broken microphones and cables etc., they can create some cool low fidelity sounds as well.
There were distinct characteristics to each. The problem was that I didn't know which characteristic belonged to each synth beforehand. The B1 always had this weird resonance way up in the top end. The Vital was always a little on the dark side compared to the Polybrute, kinda like the difference between a ribbon mic and a condenser. They each sounded fine though. It's not the kind of thing that makes or breaks an instrument once it winds up in a mix. I did find that resonance from the B1 irritating though. Not sure if that was a B1 thing or a me thing but I noticed it right away and it's hard to ignore.
I'm extremely curious how Vital sounds "darker" to you than Polybrute on test 4 for example... Polybrute being the first synth and Vital being the third in that test.
This is a great video. I actually opened two windows, one with your video paused on the results and the other playing back after I failed this test. What I thought was the Polybrute was the B1. Personally, I like the sounds of the B1. Someone else will love the Polybrute. These videos are really good to show that the gear is really not that important. Nicely done sir.
After owning my 1st synth for 1.5 years, I found the UI to be even more important. If you dont enjoy the interface, it probably doesn't matter how good it sounds and, for the sake of your wallet, you may be better off with a great controller.
This is why I have an Arturia Keylab MKii 49 and a slew of soft synths. I love the feel of the keys for playing, the integration with the DAW is pretty good, and Vital and Serum are for sounds. If you're into the knobs and sliders, then yeah, the Polybrute is still worth every dime.
I think about this all the time regarding the Peak. I adore the sound of that synth, probably my favorite sounding synth I've owned personally, but I sold it after a few months because I hated using it. I don't even know how to quantify something like that, I just didn't gel with it.
Hello, guys! I'm struggling with a dillema: to buy or not to buy DeepMind 12? For me it sounds good... But I don't like that it doesn't allow sine and triangle waves and doesn't allow oscillators to modulate each other. Also I'm not sure how good it is in terms of UI. I could (squeek my teeths a bit!) buy the used Polybrute. But it seems that it takes pretty much space. It's pitty that they've didn't made a compact module. You can tell me if I'm wrong here. Please.
@@KiR_3d For me the lack of FM is a no-go. I'm assuming you could modulate the oscillators with an LFO assuming it runs at audio rate, but then you're using up an LFO... Have you tried the Neutron? It's monophonic so it's maybe irrelevant to your needs but I love that thing.
I'm also a bassist and guitarist. There's also lots videos comparing this bass or guitar to that or whatever. And don't even start on "tonewood" on electrics. Here I think the same thing as with those videos: First, there's going to be some differences in the sounds and characteristics. Second, the average listener isn't going to hear them or care. Third, I'm probably not going to pick them out in a blind test myself.
Just listened casually on laptop speakers, no repeat listens. I knew they were different, but without any familiarity with the synths in question or using cues like volume or noise levels as a lot of comments did, I stood no chance. There was a video I saw here on YT years ago ("How I Made My $200 Minimoog") where someone demonstrated how they customized a generic MIDI knob controller into a fake-woodgrain Minimoog panel driving a VST by printing out some stickers. I think that kind of placebo is exactly what a lot of gear addicts need. You can make a cool looking and practical control surface by setting up an easel or floor desk with a bunch of controllers, macro pads or shortcut remotes, and a little portable touchscreen or a drawing tablet(for that Synclavier light-pen feeling). When you get bored with it, rearrange or swap out a piece. It's not the actual gear, its capability or vintage, it's the Hawthorne Effect: change up the workspace and you feel happier with it.
Really interesting video. I didn't try to guess which was which, but instead I listened to each test a few times, listening for which one I liked the most, marking down my preference order, going through a few times to try to make sure it was consistent and ... 5/5 I liked the B1 the most, which was ... really surprising given how much I've been jonesing for a Polybrute. The PB obviously has much more in terms of ... everything, so I wonder if it could be shaped into something more pleasant to my ears than these kinda raw tests.
I've had a debate years back with a synth head and I basically arrived at the conclusion that once the synths are in the song & mixed there's basically no way you can tell one from the other (it's still possible)
The closest I can get is either comparing it to famous patches from bands where I know they used a certain synth and being "Okay there's a chance it could be that" or listening to osc/ filter characteristics and being "This sound would be pretty easy to make with a ___ "
Indeed. There are hundreds of songs where even something definable as the "303 squelch" turns out to have not been made with an actual TB-303. As well as the hardware "clones", there are loads of software tools that sound similar enough to trick us into thinking the music was made with the little silver box. In a direct A/B test we can discern differences between synth sounds (and even have a preference of one over the other), but as this video proves, we can't always identify which synth was used for each version.
Like a number of others have said, this is an interesting video for so many reasons. In the end, it always comes back to the same thing: the music. You can make great music with almost anything I suspect. Your video is also a good reminder that there's a lot of marketing out there, but once you've got the basic set of 'things' on your palette, you really don't need to keep buying stuff! Thanks for the really honest video, we all need to see and hear more of this.
Still on a break! This was filmed like a month ago and I was waiting to release it until the B1 was back in stock. Actual 'new' video coming next week!
I stopped caring about actual sound of the synths and started to focus on features and reliability. Nowadays digital stuff can sound as awesome as analog, but with more neat features to play with. I always hit around 50% mark in blind tests like that, so that means that its just pure luck 🤷♂️
Honestly hardware digital stuff is awesome. I've got a KingKorg and it sounds great for a VA mixed w digital and is fun to program. But I've recently been getting into romplers, the 01/WFD for pads and it oozes character. You just don't hear things that sound like an M1, Wavestation etc. anymore. I wonder if the newer Wavestate is any good.
The actual sound used in a mix would presumably be tweaked in the patch and with EQ to suit the context. I'm not sure how much the basic sound would mean in that case but this was still an interesting comparison that makes it clear that the character comes from the filters as you said.
This was a fantastically engaging video. You are the only one l’ve seen online to perform such an interesting test. Thanks for your hard work putting this together.
I got 7 correct and to be honest I can only really tell the difference between them with the filters (of course) and when you get to super low notes. the analogue synths seem to handle and play those low notes a lot smoother whereas i could hear the wave's individual oscillations in quite an unpleasant manner with vital. Interesting results!
The "Take-Away", here, for me, is that every sample (patch, voice, etc.) has it's own, unique character and finish. ANY "sound" can be nudged and massaged, more, towards a "personal ideal". CONCLUSION: Grope for the most efficient path (of least resistance), to get as close to your ideal "paradigm" as is practically feasible, given your budgeted time and resources. ... Make it happen as soon and as easily as your vestment requires/allows.
Love your brutal honesty you teach so well, your sense of humor hits my funnybone in a good way :) thank you for giving everyone, myself included, continued inspirational musical drive - stay true to you :) your commentary on the filter giving the synth it's character I find to be spot on, there's a few synths like Z3ta that on their multi oscillator goofed by not having (on 7 voices) a voice in the root, so they split 4 low 3 high where I've seen the oscillator being an issue but as always you're dead on :) so many "armchair captians" these days - your channel is always a breath of fresh air thanks!
I got two right, 1 completely wrong and mixed up the polybrute & B1 in the other two... Round 1: Poly, Vital, B1 Round 2: Poly, Vital, B1 Round 3: B1, Poly, Vital Round 4: Poly, B1, Vital Round 5: Vital, B1, Poly Not a compete disaster considering I neither own or have even played with any of the above before! Great video Crazy V! ;)
playing along as I go, but I am giving multiple listens to each one, not just hearing them once I don't have personal experience with either donner or polybrute so telling those apart will be difficult, just assuming polybrute is whichever one sounds "fancier" X round 1: A)donner, there is some stepping in the filter B)vital, giveaway is no noisefloor C)polybrute round 2: A)Donner B)Vital C)polybrute 🤔same order? "a)" has more sustain on the bass, which I'm assuming is designed into the donner round 3: A)Vital B)donner C)polybrute my assumption for these is that the donner will be the better "bass" synth, consider that PB is 6 voices and we're comparing one voice of each synth round 4: A)polybrute B)donner C)vital round 5: A)Vital B)polybrute C)donner the sampled osc in vital almost fooled me until I heard the others(assuming I'm even correct) for all of these I'm assuming I got vital right, and I'm leaning towards "it sounds like a 303" for my donner pick, then poly is whichever one is left after seeing results it looks like I only got one round wrong, vital was correct every time though, noisefloor was a dead giveaway I think my logic in the first round was off by listening for that "stepping" in the filter totally 100% understand most people not getting these, especially since we're comparing single voices with no special features I'm always of the impression that people who listen to music and proclaim to know which synths were used from the sound (and not from historical relevance) are completely full of it, sure we might know the history of a record and what synths they used, it's interesting but in a mix, with simple fx, post processing etc, it really "doesn't matter" that said, keep in mind, the polybrute voice is 1/6th of the total voices, and it has many other features, bringing the cost of one voice WAY closer to the donner I also wouldn't suggest using a polybrute as a 303
also a few points, just because most people can't tell the difference, doesn't mean there isn't one most people who say they can tell a difference probably can't, seriously this is SUPER common just because the average listener can't describe the difference, doesn't mean it wont affect your mix what I mean by this last point is that certain artifacts CAN potentially lead to mixing problems, not that any synth is "bad" per say just because you can't tell the difference doesn't mean the people who can are just lucky guessers all this said, it's about what you make with it, people who sit around all day comparing filters and synth warmth and never making music as correct as they may be, generally are just wasting time, idk I think the point here shouldn't be "synths all sound the same anyways" but should be: don't trust people's opinions online unless they actually know what they are talking about I see comments are posts about every music product claiming each one "sounds bad" or sounds thin, or sounds cheap or whatever, and it's usually just someone who listened to one demo and decided they didn't like the thing most important is to have fun with whatever you make, and avoid spending more than you need to
In my humble opinion the 303 ehh sorry B1 … What makes its sound is the interplay of filter-resonance-slide-accent. If all of these are involved only then you get something hard to imitate with other synths (not hard to imitate with many clones though). So raw oscillators and then a bit of “halfway” filter and resonance and it’s hard to distinguish. I personally bought a B1 and am positively surprised how good it sounds. I have the feelings that many tests don’t do it justice as the go frog soft to hard distortion in too big steps when in reality it’s amazing how subtle it can be. Plus I feel better getting this than the Behringunfair version. This video supports my thesis of recent years that I can get worse than I thought but could not care less which synth is what 🎉
I would have had no chance to tell wich one is wich, but after checking back with the results, I found that the sound I tend to like the most in those comparisons came most likely from the polybrute. Main reason being the richnes in the low-end and the way the filter sweeps work. One good example is the last note on the Test 5 pattern. Vital just suddenly stops the note, B1 overemphasizes the low mids and bass frequencies, but also really fast. Polybrute on the other hand has a soft curve and gently fades out the sound. But on the other hand, adjusting the curves and release times so fit can make this difference entirely negligible.
They all sound different but it's impossible to tell which one is which because i never heard them before. This is like guessing the brand of a monitor (flatscreen), while they all stand next to each other with all markings and branding removed: "yeah... it looks flat... and that one produces more red...".
When you are working on a song over time the sound changes. Your whole auditive conception changes for that song specifically. From then on It will only get worse. Now we watch this man. Spending so much time in listening to details. Listening to synths. Understanding the design of sound. A man sacrificing his own ears for the community. Take a beak man. You deserve it.
I was just as wrong. We even had the same guesses in some tests, I wonder why... I was focusing on how thick and bright the osc sounded and how the filter (especially the resonance) changed the sound. My guesses were: 1 Vital-B1-Poly 2 Vital-B1-Poly 3 B1-Poly-Vital 4 Poly-B1-Vital 5 Poly-Vital-B1 All I gotta say is that I'm scared of waking up one day and finding out Vital was just a dream.
You're in good company... I could pick out the B1 most of the time, but couldn't tell any difference betweent the other two. The B1 samples had a little more sub-bass, especially on the lower notes.
LMFAO!!! The reveal music...and Penis Theory!? Bro, I was nearly 100% with you until the last example. There was a "cheapness" that came through in my head, but that ended up being spread across all three.
I didn't even bother doing the test as I know I can't tell the difference (this comes from someone who owns and plays 20+ hardware synths which are mostly analogue). For some filters I can give an educated guess but it is at best a guess.
Definitely gave me a bit of an existential crisis as to why I own all these different synths haha. Funny how close a lot of them sound! Still think the filter is the key but even then it can be a wash for most 'standard' filters. Has to have a bit of character to really tell it apart but even then in a mix I'm not sure I'd ever be able to tell!
@@VenusTheory We'd all like to think we can single out a Minimoog 24dB but placed against a 24dB on a Matrix Brute I have witnessed egos turn to dust. It is actually rather satisfying in a masochistic sort of way given my own investment in analogue 🤣🤣
Would have been interested to see on screen which one was playing and what you guessed. or at least at the end see the graphic with which was synth was which so we can see if you consistently mislabel polybrute as vital but then get the others wrong for instance. Thanks Penus Theory!
This stuff is HARD. The other day I made a patch in Harmor and I'd totally guess it's expensive analog, then I've heard analog patches that felt kinda more like cheap digital. I feel a lot of it comes down to getting the more flattering aspects out of a filter while also sticking to classic techniques, stuff like that. The only one in this video I felt instantly confident about was the Vital one with the high end, just like you
After 2 decades of making music with a dekstop, I decided to go back to outboard samplers, drum machines, synths and sequencers. Just bought the Donner B1 for a really good price and I'm looking forward to making some basslines. Next purchases will be the Bastl Microgranny, Korg SQ 64 and the Erica Synths LXR 02. Would love your opinion on those few pieces as a re-starter setup. In the past I've only ever owned an MPC 2000, Yamaha CS1X and a few modules and now I am getting myself off of MPC software and Cubase except for recording and mastering.
Successfully picked out the B1 each time, thinking it was the Polybrute. That Low End had something classy about it... The other two sounded pretty same-ish a lot of the time (at least without the filters), and I never knew which was which
hey Cameron! I think you. would have done better if you heard the examples with speakers in a room. I guessed 7 right, and a lot was how the sound "resonated" and moved between the speakers, how the phase relations sounded. I think this helped picking out the "richer" and more "expensive" sounds...
I recently came back to music production after a lengthy break and I was struck by this. I'm fairly sure there were a few years back in the day when pretty much noone was building analogue synths. I'd been given the impression that "old technology" just used too many (and large) components to be cost effective. If you'd said to me "There will be an analogue revival" I would have thought "Fine, but the devices will be out of my price range". I certainly never thought there would be analogue devices that are cheaper and smaller than the digital synths of ten years ago. It's kind of mind-blowing.
@@AutPen38 I discovered analogue synths were still alive and kicking for years in the form of modular synths (search RUclips for Eurorack!). But I came about that thru a recent obsession with virtual modular like VCV Rack or Hexen and Caustic for Android, cool stuff! I too thought it almost obsolete but boy was I wrong. And several years ago, as with the Eurorack modules, it was and can still be pricey. It's crazy but awesome to see this revival. I'm not sure but I think that the new gear, similar to the tube guitar preamps like ADA pioneered back in the late 80's and even the JCM800 Msrshall amps, are hybrid. Analogue signal flow with digital control. Kinda the best of both worlds. The sound of analogue but with the ability to store presets, interface with computers, those types of things. It is indeed mindblowing but I'm lovin' it. Still amazed though at the recent bang for the bucks.
listening in the background I knew test on test four vital synth for sure, there was a few envelopes that prob would give it away on the other test but was Makin tea haha
I myself have had a Korg Monologue for a while and recently added a microfreak to it. It's a cool combination and I expect the same with combining it with a BSII
They all sound close. They all sound good to my ears. I actually have the desk top Uno Synth and i love the bass sound coming out of it more than my more expensive Synths. Only an audiophiles could probably tell the difference. I hope i never become an Audio snob. I can appreciate the debth of a Moog but i love my Korg M50 A good sound is a good sound. The average person don't care the name or cost of the Synth.
I have directly recorded iPhone apps against real synthesizers and felt the difference. But then when I listen to the recording I could not hear a difference. So I’ve concluded a long time ago that the feeling you get as a musician playing something is not the same thing as what comes across on the recording. And so it’s fine to just go with stuff that sounds good on the recording - software - if that is your main goal. My goal is often fun which means moving my fingers and playing some kind of instrument.
Yeah, context is important. I didn't actually note down which were my favourites in each round of this test, but I definitely had a preference for the "fatter" sounds, but if I watched the video at another time, when I might be in a different mood (or could have been working on subbass all day, such that my ears wanted a break) I'd probably have different favourites.
My main take away from this test was that I should maybe consider exploring an analogue synth. Since I have no idea what any of this gear sounds like, I just picked my favorite and least favorite from each test. In all tests except the last one, Vital was my least favorite by a long shot. The last test was more difficult for me though and I didn't have a clear preference. I found Vital to have that same sort of ear fatiguing "hardness" that I regularly hear from my own Omnisphere 2 VST. Anyone else out there feel the same by chance? As someone who has been purely digital for a long time, this was really eye (ear) opening.
... made all the harder by not really matching levels or envelopes too closely. But really, for these simple sounds any reasonable modern synth should be able to produce them, and we're well past the point where having another 303 clone makes any sense vs. software or using just about anything really, since it's such a simple architecture. But the 303 clone can't get into the territory of the polybrute or even a deepmind, so really the question might be "How well can I emulate the 303 sound when I need to?"
No idea which is which, but I preferred 1 in round 1, no pref in round 2, ( didn't like any), 2 in round 3, 1 in round 4, and both 2 and 3 had redeeming qualities in round 5.
Since this is bass, I should probably listen on a big rig steada this tablet, but the flippin Midas wouldn't sync up with the stagebox till 1 minute after faders up, and it was hot till we were out and gone, and... None of these touch my Spectre thru a ME8B, and none of that touches what I can get outta The Legend. ;-)
Hi dollar, no pref, middle dollar, high dollar, high and mid. I don't have a Polybrute, but I do have a pair of Earthquakes on a Crown X-4000. I can break shit runnin the Legend thru them.
I'm a year late but I got 1, 3, and 4 fully correct :O on 2 I flipped vital and the b1, and then my answer for 5 was totally messed up. Maybe it's just a random distribution of randomness that I guessed properly more on, but I thought I was able to follow them all around pretty decently.
Hey! Weren't you supposed to be on vacation? Anyway, I did the absolute same as you, so... yeah. interesting. A speed round through correct answers (with bits of sound) would be a really fulfilling end to something like this, so you can kinda compare your biases to what's real.
I did bad as well. I think that not knowing the settings also makes it harder because you can't kn ow what to expect. The envelopes and cutoff were vastly different in each and the same for resonance. That makes it really hard to blindly choose the correct synth in a blind test.
Was the Polybrute's OSC with that bassy saw sound? Actually it's very easy to be fooled with a very good VST synth... untill you'll hear the highest notes and the filter on different octaves and resonance values. Emulations tends to sound "flat" on filters over the whole range. Although an emulated filter can sound very very good, it's usually fails when you use a high resonance values and overdrive it's input. Highest notes of the emulated oscillators can sound aliased or "rounded". "This or that" but almost never crisp and _not aliased!_ It's due to PolyBLEPs algorythm which is the best for anti-aliased oscillators. I know the other possibility to sound "ideal" in the emulation but you can tell it and we'll discuss ;)
I could at least hear that there was a difference each time to the 3 synths, much more so than say listening to different amps in a hi-fi demo situation.It was more like auditioning different speakers to take this analogy further.
How many did you get correct? 😅
EDIT: Looks like Donner has since changed the price a bit - sorry about that! This video was filmed over a month ago and they didn't bother to tell me... 🤷♂
Donner B1 (Use DOVENUS to save 15%) ► shrsl.com/3m8s9
New video coming next week - finally published this now that they're back in stock!
Hey brah, wat mic do u use? 😎
I used a super-scientific idea... The one that sounded the most "digital" to my ears would be Vital, the one that sounded "cheapest" (clipped, muffled, over or under filtered) would be the B1, and what was left would be the Polybrute. I scored 4/15 -- one less than you, and NONE of my correct answers were consistent, lol. My observation: the B1 makes much better 303 sounds than I thought it would. . .
heard differences sometimes. not a chance identifying em.
I wasn't going to tell a specific synth without having first hand experience, so I was just trying to see how many distinct differences I can find. In test 4 Vital saw wave has significantly less base. But in test 1 it is not significantly different and B1 stands out with more high end harmonics. In test 2 the envelop on Vital is tighter and the resonance is more acidic. The envelop tightness follows it into test 3, but all filters become squelchy in that one, I assume you raised the res higher. In the last round, it feels like B1 filter produces less squelch compared to the other two, which is a bit counter-intuitive.
I am not sure if it is a problem with YT audio, my ears or my phones, but it feels like some of the tests almost contradict each other. Like the raw saw wave in tests 1 and 4. Or was one of these sampled and one native in Vital?
I did not try, after failed on Cherry Audios test on the homepage.
It’s great to see Penus Theory making excellent content as always
As with any of these tests. They're pretty much always blind guesses. And sums up what we probably all already know: only synth heads really give a sh*t about what synth was used in a song. Your listener at home won't know or care, as long as it sounds good.
👏exactly👏
On the puny little speakers on this laptop they all sounded pretty much the same to me anyway.
Depends on the ears also. I could clearly hear the difference between the recordings listening on an iPhone X and those speakers arent stellar quality either, but the point is still the same. If you don’t know the different synths very very well, as only a true autistic analog freak will it will at best be a guess, and absolutely noone is gonna be able to tell them apart in a finnished mix unless you exactly know how the mix has been processed.
*dumps audio from youtube* ... *loads into audacity's spectrogram* I CAN SEE IT IN THE PIXELS
I could definitely tell me my expensive analogue synth versus a free plugin in a blind test. Mostly as my analogue synth crackles every time you look at, the right channel is twice as loud as the left and the background hiss is deafening
Should have simulated the connections failing or the circuits needing dusting 😅
@@VenusTheory There are plugins that actually have that shit lol.
I think what this video reminds me is that if you already have a blip bloop device, go make something with it. Yep, it’s nice to have a $3000 synth. But you can own a $150 synth or a free plugin and make stuff now. Don’t fret over “the sound” cause even professionals can’t really tell the difference and the tools matter less than what you make with them. Great video.
One of the most lush pad sounds I've ever heard was a 90s Casio plugged into a moderate-high end reverb pedal. It broke me as a man and made me re-evaluate my moral compass. I mean... It wasn't even a cz-101 or something actually synthie. It was like one of those rompler ones. Never underestimated the power of effects and context after that...
Those old cheap casio sounds can have some character, I'm gonna download a ps1 reverb impulse response I just learned about later, same thing about context there.
Also, tell friends to give you broken microphones and cables etc., they can create some cool low fidelity sounds as well.
There were distinct characteristics to each. The problem was that I didn't know which characteristic belonged to each synth beforehand.
The B1 always had this weird resonance way up in the top end. The Vital was always a little on the dark side compared to the Polybrute, kinda like the difference between a ribbon mic and a condenser.
They each sounded fine though. It's not the kind of thing that makes or breaks an instrument once it winds up in a mix. I did find that resonance from the B1 irritating though. Not sure if that was a B1 thing or a me thing but I noticed it right away and it's hard to ignore.
I'm extremely curious how Vital sounds "darker" to you than Polybrute on test 4 for example... Polybrute being the first synth and Vital being the third in that test.
This is a great video. I actually opened two windows, one with your video paused on the results and the other playing back after I failed this test. What I thought was the Polybrute was the B1. Personally, I like the sounds of the B1. Someone else will love the Polybrute. These videos are really good to show that the gear is really not that important. Nicely done sir.
Same! The B1 is noticably bassier than the other two and I really liked that
After owning my 1st synth for 1.5 years, I found the UI to be even more important. If you dont enjoy the interface, it probably doesn't matter how good it sounds and, for the sake of your wallet, you may be better off with a great controller.
Exactly this. It’s why I find the PolyBrute and Super 6 so inspiring.
This is why I have an Arturia Keylab MKii 49 and a slew of soft synths. I love the feel of the keys for playing, the integration with the DAW is pretty good, and Vital and Serum are for sounds. If you're into the knobs and sliders, then yeah, the Polybrute is still worth every dime.
I think about this all the time regarding the Peak. I adore the sound of that synth, probably my favorite sounding synth I've owned personally, but I sold it after a few months because I hated using it. I don't even know how to quantify something like that, I just didn't gel with it.
Hello, guys! I'm struggling with a dillema: to buy or not to buy DeepMind 12? For me it sounds good... But I don't like that it doesn't allow sine and triangle waves and doesn't allow oscillators to modulate each other. Also I'm not sure how good it is in terms of UI.
I could (squeek my teeths a bit!) buy the used Polybrute. But it seems that it takes pretty much space. It's pitty that they've didn't made a compact module. You can tell me if I'm wrong here. Please.
@@KiR_3d For me the lack of FM is a no-go. I'm assuming you could modulate the oscillators with an LFO assuming it runs at audio rate, but then you're using up an LFO... Have you tried the Neutron? It's monophonic so it's maybe irrelevant to your needs but I love that thing.
I'm also a bassist and guitarist. There's also lots videos comparing this bass or guitar to that or whatever. And don't even start on "tonewood" on electrics. Here I think the same thing as with those videos:
First, there's going to be some differences in the sounds and characteristics.
Second, the average listener isn't going to hear them or care.
Third, I'm probably not going to pick them out in a blind test myself.
Hey you leave my maple fretboard out of your mouth! It's the tone man!
@@VenusTheory everyone knows rosewood has a warmer toan because it's darker and therefore absorbs more heat
Lol the poly brute was what I guessed right every time. It sounds amazing and has the perfect amount of warmth. Very pleasing to MY ears
Welcome back *enus Theory!!!
Just listened casually on laptop speakers, no repeat listens. I knew they were different, but without any familiarity with the synths in question or using cues like volume or noise levels as a lot of comments did, I stood no chance.
There was a video I saw here on YT years ago ("How I Made My $200 Minimoog") where someone demonstrated how they customized a generic MIDI knob controller into a fake-woodgrain Minimoog panel driving a VST by printing out some stickers. I think that kind of placebo is exactly what a lot of gear addicts need. You can make a cool looking and practical control surface by setting up an easel or floor desk with a bunch of controllers, macro pads or shortcut remotes, and a little portable touchscreen or a drawing tablet(for that Synclavier light-pen feeling). When you get bored with it, rearrange or swap out a piece. It's not the actual gear, its capability or vintage, it's the Hawthorne Effect: change up the workspace and you feel happier with it.
I was literally just thinking about watching some Strong Bad emails, so thanks for that intro!
Really interesting video. I didn't try to guess which was which, but instead I listened to each test a few times, listening for which one I liked the most, marking down my preference order, going through a few times to try to make sure it was consistent and ... 5/5 I liked the B1 the most, which was ... really surprising given how much I've been jonesing for a Polybrute.
The PB obviously has much more in terms of ... everything, so I wonder if it could be shaped into something more pleasant to my ears than these kinda raw tests.
I've had a debate years back with a synth head and I basically arrived at the conclusion that once the synths are in the song & mixed there's basically no way you can tell one from the other (it's still possible)
Any hobby is at least 50% arguing that you can tell the difference between things you can't tell the difference between.
The closest I can get is either comparing it to famous patches from bands where I know they used a certain synth and being "Okay there's a chance it could be that" or listening to osc/ filter characteristics and being "This sound would be pretty easy to make with a ___ "
This assumes a busy mix but your exception is noticed.
..you have no idea what you are talking about.. lol
Indeed. There are hundreds of songs where even something definable as the "303 squelch" turns out to have not been made with an actual TB-303. As well as the hardware "clones", there are loads of software tools that sound similar enough to trick us into thinking the music was made with the little silver box.
In a direct A/B test we can discern differences between synth sounds (and even have a preference of one over the other), but as this video proves, we can't always identify which synth was used for each version.
Like a number of others have said, this is an interesting video for so many reasons. In the end, it always comes back to the same thing: the music. You can make great music with almost anything I suspect. Your video is also a good reminder that there's a lot of marketing out there, but once you've got the basic set of 'things' on your palette, you really don't need to keep buying stuff! Thanks for the really honest video, we all need to see and hear more of this.
I think I want more analog stuff cheap or not , that stuff is to fun.
I thought you were still on the vacations , good to have you back ! 💪🏻
Still on a break! This was filmed like a month ago and I was waiting to release it until the B1 was back in stock. Actual 'new' video coming next week!
I LOVE how greasy the Donner sounds!!
I stopped caring about actual sound of the synths and started to focus on features and reliability. Nowadays digital stuff can sound as awesome as analog, but with more neat features to play with.
I always hit around 50% mark in blind tests like that, so that means that its just pure luck 🤷♂️
Honestly hardware digital stuff is awesome. I've got a KingKorg and it sounds great for a VA mixed w digital and is fun to program. But I've recently been getting into romplers, the 01/WFD for pads and it oozes character. You just don't hear things that sound like an M1, Wavestation etc. anymore. I wonder if the newer Wavestate is any good.
The actual sound used in a mix would presumably be tweaked in the patch and with EQ to suit the context. I'm not sure how much the basic sound would mean in that case but this was still an interesting comparison that makes it clear that the character comes from the filters as you said.
This video and the PC-setup one got my like at the 5 seconds mark.
This was a fantastically engaging video. You are the only one l’ve seen online to perform such an interesting test. Thanks for your hard work putting this together.
I got 7 correct and to be honest I can only really tell the difference between them with the filters (of course) and when you get to super low notes. the analogue synths seem to handle and play those low notes a lot smoother whereas i could hear the wave's individual oscillations in quite an unpleasant manner with vital. Interesting results!
Cameron smiles. It's new. A break is a good thing to build a new energy.
Your intros always make me laugh. Thank you. 😂
Very interesting and I love your honest opinion. Thanks
The "Take-Away", here, for me, is that every sample (patch, voice, etc.) has it's own, unique character and finish. ANY "sound" can be nudged and massaged, more, towards a "personal ideal".
CONCLUSION: Grope for the most efficient path (of least resistance), to get as close to your ideal "paradigm" as is practically feasible, given your budgeted time and resources. ... Make it happen as soon and as easily as your vestment requires/allows.
REDUCED: If you can "get it done", in 5 minutes, with a rubber band and a tin can, then do so.
IN ONE ACRONYM: K. I. S. S.
Love your brutal honesty you teach so well, your sense of humor hits my funnybone in a good way :) thank you for giving everyone, myself included, continued inspirational musical drive - stay true to you :) your commentary on the filter giving the synth it's character I find to be spot on, there's a few synths like Z3ta that on their multi oscillator goofed by not having (on 7 voices) a voice in the root, so they split 4 low 3 high where I've seen the oscillator being an issue but as always you're dead on :) so many "armchair captians" these days - your channel is always a breath of fresh air thanks!
I love your videos but my wife really loves your intro's and asked if you could put together a compilation video of all your intro's. :) haha
I got two right, 1 completely wrong and mixed up the polybrute & B1 in the other two...
Round 1: Poly, Vital, B1
Round 2: Poly, Vital, B1
Round 3: B1, Poly, Vital
Round 4: Poly, B1, Vital
Round 5: Vital, B1, Poly
Not a compete disaster considering I neither own or have even played with any of the above before!
Great video Crazy V! ;)
playing along as I go, but I am giving multiple listens to each one, not just hearing them once
I don't have personal experience with either donner or polybrute so telling those apart will be difficult, just assuming polybrute is whichever one sounds "fancier"
X round 1: A)donner, there is some stepping in the filter B)vital, giveaway is no noisefloor C)polybrute
round 2: A)Donner B)Vital C)polybrute 🤔same order? "a)" has more sustain on the bass, which I'm assuming is designed into the donner
round 3: A)Vital B)donner C)polybrute my assumption for these is that the donner will be the better "bass" synth, consider that PB is 6 voices and we're comparing one voice of each synth
round 4: A)polybrute B)donner C)vital
round 5: A)Vital B)polybrute C)donner the sampled osc in vital almost fooled me until I heard the others(assuming I'm even correct)
for all of these I'm assuming I got vital right, and I'm leaning towards "it sounds like a 303" for my donner pick, then poly is whichever one is left
after seeing results it looks like I only got one round wrong, vital was correct every time though, noisefloor was a dead giveaway
I think my logic in the first round was off by listening for that "stepping" in the filter
totally 100% understand most people not getting these, especially since we're comparing single voices with no special features
I'm always of the impression that people who listen to music and proclaim to know which synths were used from the sound (and not from historical relevance)
are completely full of it, sure we might know the history of a record and what synths they used, it's interesting
but in a mix, with simple fx, post processing etc, it really "doesn't matter"
that said, keep in mind, the polybrute voice is 1/6th of the total voices, and it has many other features, bringing the cost of one voice WAY closer to the donner
I also wouldn't suggest using a polybrute as a 303
also a few points, just because most people can't tell the difference, doesn't mean there isn't one
most people who say they can tell a difference probably can't, seriously this is SUPER common
just because the average listener can't describe the difference, doesn't mean it wont affect your mix
what I mean by this last point is that certain artifacts CAN potentially lead to mixing problems, not that any synth is "bad" per say
just because you can't tell the difference doesn't mean the people who can are just lucky guessers
all this said, it's about what you make with it, people who sit around all day comparing filters and synth warmth and never making music
as correct as they may be, generally are just wasting time, idk
I think the point here shouldn't be "synths all sound the same anyways" but should be: don't trust people's opinions online unless they actually know what they are talking about
I see comments are posts about every music product claiming each one "sounds bad" or sounds thin, or sounds cheap or whatever, and it's usually just someone who listened to one demo and decided they didn't like the thing
most important is to have fun with whatever you make, and avoid spending more than you need to
In my humble opinion the 303 ehh sorry B1 … What makes its sound is the interplay of filter-resonance-slide-accent. If all of these are involved only then you get something hard to imitate with other synths (not hard to imitate with many clones though).
So raw oscillators and then a bit of “halfway” filter and resonance and it’s hard to distinguish.
I personally bought a B1 and am positively surprised how good it sounds. I have the feelings that many tests don’t do it justice as the go frog soft to hard distortion in too big steps when in reality it’s amazing how subtle it can be. Plus I feel better getting this than the Behringunfair version.
This video supports my thesis of recent years that I can get worse than I thought but could not care less which synth is what 🎉
i had the exact same answers as yours, and pretty much had 0 confidence i would be right. glad i was right about being wrong!
Awesome new video style! I enjoyed this one a lot. Favorite line from the video "..name it penis theory?" Brilliant!
The video doesn't make you look like a jackass...the intro handled that just fine! 😳🤣😂
I would have had no chance to tell wich one is wich, but after checking back with the results, I found that the sound I tend to like the most in those comparisons came most likely from the polybrute. Main reason being the richnes in the low-end and the way the filter sweeps work. One good example is the last note on the Test 5 pattern. Vital just suddenly stops the note, B1 overemphasizes the low mids and bass frequencies, but also really fast. Polybrute on the other hand has a soft curve and gently fades out the sound.
But on the other hand, adjusting the curves and release times so fit can make this difference entirely negligible.
They all sound different but it's impossible to tell which one is which because i never heard them before. This is like guessing the brand of a monitor (flatscreen), while they all stand next to each other with all markings and branding removed: "yeah... it looks flat... and that one produces more red...".
I was so confident i got em right and you Didnt.
At least you nailed 1 of them though.
That b1 is really impressive for what it is.
When you are working on a song over time the sound changes. Your whole auditive conception changes for that song specifically. From then on It will only get worse.
Now we watch this man. Spending so much time in listening to details. Listening to synths. Understanding the design of sound.
A man sacrificing his own ears for the community.
Take a beak man. You deserve it.
Very cool comparison - love the deep dive. Really, I think each one sounded better than the rest, depending on which test.
Wholesome and heartwarming content!!!
This confirms for me, again.
That I really really dont like the sound of arturia synths,
and it still sounds the best in this scenario.😅
Great intro jam.
Thanks Dave, without you we would not have this great video at all :)
Fantastic entertainement! Thank you!
Great video! Cheers Dave
love this intro
I was just as wrong. We even had the same guesses in some tests, I wonder why...
I was focusing on how thick and bright the osc sounded and how the filter (especially the resonance) changed the sound.
My guesses were:
1 Vital-B1-Poly
2 Vital-B1-Poly
3 B1-Poly-Vital
4 Poly-B1-Vital
5 Poly-Vital-B1
All I gotta say is that I'm scared of waking up one day and finding out Vital was just a dream.
I failed on Cherry Audios test, so will not try again...but great and funny video. Perhaps the most revisited video.
It’s so subjective, like life.
That’s why we Love.
❤️
You're in good company... I could pick out the B1 most of the time, but couldn't tell any difference betweent the other two. The B1 samples had a little more sub-bass, especially on the lower notes.
LMFAO!!! The reveal music...and Penis Theory!? Bro, I was nearly 100% with you until the last example. There was a "cheapness" that came through in my head, but that ended up being spread across all three.
I didn't even bother doing the test as I know I can't tell the difference (this comes from someone who owns and plays 20+ hardware synths which are mostly analogue). For some filters I can give an educated guess but it is at best a guess.
Definitely gave me a bit of an existential crisis as to why I own all these different synths haha. Funny how close a lot of them sound! Still think the filter is the key but even then it can be a wash for most 'standard' filters. Has to have a bit of character to really tell it apart but even then in a mix I'm not sure I'd ever be able to tell!
@@VenusTheory We'd all like to think we can single out a Minimoog 24dB but placed against a 24dB on a Matrix Brute I have witnessed egos turn to dust.
It is actually rather satisfying in a masochistic sort of way given my own investment in analogue 🤣🤣
Truly next level intro.
PolyBrute came out of this looking like a champ, which kinda surprised me. It nailed the squelchy sound on the last test.
Great to hear from Mrs Theory! 🦑😀
Would have been interested to see on screen which one was playing and what you guessed. or at least at the end see the graphic with which was synth was which so we can see if you consistently mislabel polybrute as vital but then get the others wrong for instance. Thanks Penus Theory!
But that's just a theory. A PENUS THEORY.
Super interesting stuff, I was also wrong most of the time. 🤣
OMG the shittyflute accompaniment to the results...hysterical 😆
I guess this proves use whatever tool that motivates you and you enjoy?? Phaseplant FTW
This stuff is HARD. The other day I made a patch in Harmor and I'd totally guess it's expensive analog, then I've heard analog patches that felt kinda more like cheap digital.
I feel a lot of it comes down to getting the more flattering aspects out of a filter while also sticking to classic techniques, stuff like that.
The only one in this video I felt instantly confident about was the Vital one with the high end, just like you
After 2 decades of making music with a dekstop, I decided to go back to outboard samplers, drum machines, synths and sequencers. Just bought the Donner B1 for a really good price and I'm looking forward to making some basslines. Next purchases will be the Bastl Microgranny, Korg SQ 64 and the Erica Synths LXR 02. Would love your opinion on those few pieces as a re-starter setup. In the past I've only ever owned an MPC 2000, Yamaha CS1X and a few modules and now I am getting myself off of MPC software and Cubase except for recording and mastering.
Successfully picked out the B1 each time, thinking it was the Polybrute. That Low End had something classy about it... The other two sounded pretty same-ish a lot of the time (at least without the filters), and I never knew which was which
loved this video mr theory!
hey Cameron! I think you. would have done better if you heard the examples with speakers in a room. I guessed 7 right, and a lot was how the sound "resonated" and moved between the speakers, how the phase relations sounded. I think this helped picking out the "richer" and more "expensive" sounds...
Years ago no one would've guessed you could get a neat little analog synth with cool knobs and lighted keys for less than a weeks worth of groceries.
I recently came back to music production after a lengthy break and I was struck by this. I'm fairly sure there were a few years back in the day when pretty much noone was building analogue synths. I'd been given the impression that "old technology" just used too many (and large) components to be cost effective. If you'd said to me "There will be an analogue revival" I would have thought "Fine, but the devices will be out of my price range". I certainly never thought there would be analogue devices that are cheaper and smaller than the digital synths of ten years ago. It's kind of mind-blowing.
@@AutPen38 I discovered analogue synths were still alive and kicking for years in the form of modular synths (search RUclips for Eurorack!). But I came about that thru a recent obsession with virtual modular like VCV Rack or Hexen and Caustic for Android, cool stuff! I too thought it almost obsolete but boy was I wrong. And several years ago, as with the Eurorack modules, it was and can still be pricey. It's crazy but awesome to see this revival. I'm not sure but I think that the new gear, similar to the tube guitar preamps like ADA pioneered back in the late 80's and even the JCM800 Msrshall amps, are hybrid. Analogue signal flow with digital control. Kinda the best of both worlds. The sound of analogue but with the ability to store presets, interface with computers, those types of things. It is indeed mindblowing but I'm lovin' it. Still amazed though at the recent bang for the bucks.
listening in the background I knew test on test four vital synth for sure, there was a few envelopes that prob would give it away on the other test but was Makin tea haha
Bars.
Always
This kicks ass :)
"fuckit!' last famous words lol.
I just acquired a second hand Novation Bass Station II so I think I'll pass on the Donner. Next on my wish list is an Arturia Microfreak. 😁
Can't go wrong with the Microfreak! Probably one of my favorites that I have. Super versatile and weird!
@@VenusTheory That's why I want one. I really dig weird.
I just got a Circuit Tracks, but I want a Microfreak Vocoder next to hook up to it.
I myself have had a Korg Monologue for a while and recently added a microfreak to it. It's a cool combination and I expect the same with combining it with a BSII
They all sound close. They all sound good to my ears. I actually have the desk top Uno Synth and i love the bass sound coming out of it more than my more expensive Synths.
Only an audiophiles could probably tell the difference. I hope i never become an Audio snob. I can appreciate the debth of a Moog but i love my Korg M50
A good sound is a good sound. The average person don't care the name or cost of the Synth.
Found most of it! The secret was to gamble :D Nice video, pretty much to the point!
Only managed to guess 3 out of 15 - the Vital in the last 3 rounds. Better remember that for the next time I'll be thinking of getting new gear.
Excellent....I laughed and laughed...
I have directly recorded iPhone apps against real synthesizers and felt the difference. But then when I listen to the recording I could not hear a difference. So I’ve concluded a long time ago that the feeling you get as a musician playing something is not the same thing as what comes across on the recording. And so it’s fine to just go with stuff that sounds good on the recording - software - if that is your main goal. My goal is often fun which means moving my fingers and playing some kind of instrument.
Yeah, context is important. I didn't actually note down which were my favourites in each round of this test, but I definitely had a preference for the "fatter" sounds, but if I watched the video at another time, when I might be in a different mood (or could have been working on subbass all day, such that my ears wanted a break) I'd probably have different favourites.
My main take away from this test was that I should maybe consider exploring an analogue synth. Since I have no idea what any of this gear sounds like, I just picked my favorite and least favorite from each test. In all tests except the last one, Vital was my least favorite by a long shot. The last test was more difficult for me though and I didn't have a clear preference.
I found Vital to have that same sort of ear fatiguing "hardness" that I regularly hear from my own Omnisphere 2 VST. Anyone else out there feel the same by chance?
As someone who has been purely digital for a long time, this was really eye (ear) opening.
... made all the harder by not really matching levels or envelopes too closely. But really, for these simple sounds any reasonable modern synth should be able to produce them, and we're well past the point where having another 303 clone makes any sense vs. software or using just about anything really, since it's such a simple architecture. But the 303 clone can't get into the territory of the polybrute or even a deepmind, so really the question might be "How well can I emulate the 303 sound when I need to?"
I'm so glad you got it so wrong. It really does not make a difference nowadays
Great vid
I remember David's video, and the price. Which went up by 25% by now.
Well well well... Isn't it Mr. Coolassbeanyo out there ?
No idea which is which, but I preferred 1 in round 1, no pref in round 2, ( didn't like any), 2 in round 3, 1 in round 4, and both 2 and 3 had redeeming qualities in round 5.
Since this is bass, I should probably listen on a big rig steada this tablet, but the flippin Midas wouldn't sync up with the stagebox till 1 minute after faders up, and it was hot till we were out and gone, and...
None of these touch my Spectre thru a ME8B, and none of that touches what I can get outta The Legend.
;-)
Hi dollar, no pref, middle dollar, high dollar, high and mid.
I don't have a Polybrute, but I do have a pair of Earthquakes on a Crown X-4000.
I can break shit runnin the Legend thru them.
I feel good for knowing vitals saw wave xD
those shades demand a Barbie logo chain 'round yo neck bro
Will have to add that to my shopping list haha
I picked my favorites as polybrute. Pretty much all the ones you guessed. Was very wrong lol.
I got 3 right always mixed up polybrute or vital with b1 except round 4
I'm a year late but I got 1, 3, and 4 fully correct :O on 2 I flipped vital and the b1, and then my answer for 5 was totally messed up. Maybe it's just a random distribution of randomness that I guessed properly more on, but I thought I was able to follow them all around pretty decently.
Loved the video and I could not tell which was which but more importantly, what mic do you use?
Hey! Weren't you supposed to be on vacation? Anyway, I did the absolute same as you, so... yeah. interesting. A speed round through correct answers (with bits of sound) would be a really fulfilling end to something like this, so you can kinda compare your biases to what's real.
I did bad as well. I think that not knowing the settings also makes it harder because you can't kn ow what to expect. The envelopes and cutoff were vastly different in each and the same for resonance. That makes it really hard to blindly choose the correct synth in a blind test.
project templates) and import stuff in.
In a mix a KingKorg can do 303 MG P5 OB all for about €500 used.
I hope you get better soon.
Was the Polybrute's OSC with that bassy saw sound? Actually it's very easy to be fooled with a very good VST synth... untill you'll hear the highest notes and the filter on different octaves and resonance values.
Emulations tends to sound "flat" on filters over the whole range. Although an emulated filter can sound very very good, it's usually fails when you use a high resonance values and overdrive it's input. Highest notes of the emulated oscillators can sound aliased or "rounded". "This or that" but almost never crisp and _not aliased!_ It's due to PolyBLEPs algorythm which is the best for anti-aliased oscillators.
I know the other possibility to sound "ideal" in the emulation but you can tell it and we'll discuss ;)
I got one correct on each round.... mostly picked out Vital, but in 2 rounds it was the B1 so... I did pretty bad too.
Really Funny 👍👍👍. Subbed 😊
Just tried to take this test. I got Vital right in every round but couldn't really tell where was Polybrute and where was B1.
I could at least hear that there was a difference each time to the 3 synths, much more so than say listening to different amps in a hi-fi demo situation.It was more like auditioning different speakers to take this analogy further.