Robert Kirkman On Why He Was Angry with Marvel
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
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This is the third part of a big interview with writer and publisher Robert Kirkman. In this segment, Robert explains why he left Marvel and why he was upset with how he was treated during his time there writing for comics like Ultimate X-Men and Irredeemable Ant-Man. It's then contrasted with what his work day is like running his own comic book imprint, Skybound.
My respect for Robert Kirkman just grew exponentially for being an old-school man with principles.
I’m pretty sure he pulled a Stan Lee and screwed the artist of TWD of all that show money
@@gnarrcan108 the artist did not tell the story, he should get 0 money for the show. His job was to draw not write. Just saying,
@@scaressell6880 The artist did a great job illustrating the story which is why they deserve to be paid. You can't undermine the artist like this.
Your respect grew because of an obvious PUBLIC RELATIONS “interview”? This ain’t The Comics Journal, SON!
I grew up with Marvel comics and it makes me sad to hear that some creators are not treated well there. Eye opening interview.
in the creative world you have to deal with egos.
What Kirkman is saying is just the tip of the iceberg. Marvel has done some horrifying shit to his creators and workers since forever, this is their normal.
Marvel isn't alone - there are plenty of horror stories to come out of DC and Image as well.
The comic industry as a whole can be extremely toxic once you're in the trenches - you have to learn how to navigate the minefield of politics just as much as you have to hone and apply your craft.
Also, unless you're a big name talent, the pay is shit pretty much regardless of where you work.
It’s always the executives. The problem isn’t freedom of creativity but freedom of process. WB did it to DC, Disney is currently doing it to Marvel. And Image has also had some recent issues too.
@@easternlighthouse5741 What recent issues to be specific?
Omg this interview reminded me how phenomenal Kirkman's Ultimate X-Men run was. Sorry to hear he had such a hard time working at Marvel
When I was younger my dream was to work at Marvel but then I grew up and technology improved and options increased and now, I wouldn't ever want to work there. I am so happy crafting my own new stories and characters and taking control of everything I create.
Good luck to you
@@arthurarthur6813 Thank you Authur.
Marvel is corporate machine, so it has a meat grinder mentality
Plus too many middlemen. That stinks
True.
For real ,that's why there comics sucking.
@@markmolino6091 you've probably read 3 comics in your life to say that
@@markmolino6091 They litteraly own 65% of the market. Even when their books don't sell that well people read Marvel more than any other publisher.
Seriously thanks for doing this..only interview with a creator that I've been able to sit through the entire thing for we need more of this kind of honest conversation less salesman shit across all forms of media
So essentially, similar things that happened to McFarlane at Marvel happened to Kirkman, maybe even worse with some of the ridiculousness he claims he went through, so as a bonding moment of symbology Kirkman was made a co-owner of Image. Cool. To be honest, I'm not a fan of Robert Kirkman the writer/letterer/artist, but I am a fan of the man because he has a passion that makes you respect him because his passion comes from a genuine love of the medium.
What I can't stand is that Quesada's regime was hailed as some champion of creator's rights, and instead they were even more of an incestuous boys club than DeFalco ever was. Marvel should've worried less about unmarrying Spider-Man under his watch and more about what they were putting out.
Very true. I do like his work. I’m not a massive fan, but it’s nice to see a comic professional who’s not some moron like John Byrne, or Frank Miller or even as I’m finding out Peter David. About the only ‘Classic’ Marvel Writer who wasn’t a pain in the rear is Chris Claremont and Erik Larson. I gave up Marvel around 1993-4. I never really bothered with them after that apart from getting Ultimate Spider-Man and X-Men.
This always happens... I have snobby opinions about a work and criticize it when it's popular, then learn about the creator and their process and do a complete 180. What an awesome interview! It is always incredible to be reminded that these works are made by real people who risk their livelihood to pursue the craft.
One thing that will stick with me, I’ve written to a few comic letter columns and Oblivion Song was the only one that responded, credit to image comics and Robert Kirkman for that. I’m an action figure collector as well as a comic book collector and i’d love some Image comics action figures maybe McFarlane toys would be the ones to tackle this
On the Skybound website they have action figures for Invincible, The Walking Dead, Saga, and some other series too IIRC. I haven't seen any Oblivion Song action figures though, other than the collectible statue that was released when the book launched. Which is too bad, really. I love the character designs in Oblivion Song and would love a Nathan Cole action figure.
I wholeheartedly second this motion! :)
Lorenzo De Felici haha I’m glad to see the artist behind This oblivion song seconds the motion! I love your and Roberts work each issue!
Finn J. Harrison true but I’d love 6-7 inch well articulated versions, a bit like what McFarlane did with his Mortal Kombat 11 Spawn
How is Oblivion Song? Is it good?
I'm not surprised that Robert Kirkman had problems with Joe Queseda. Remember when Joe Quesada felt the need to interrupt J. Michael Straczynski's storyline just have Peter Parker's marriage with Mary Jane be wiped away by Mephisto? Which caused to ruin Spider-Man stories forever! It's sad to see Joe Quesada gave the same treatment to Robert Kirkman and it's to no surprise! Joe Queseda is a horrible person and I'm surprised he's still working at Marvel.
While I do agree it was kind of a dick move to basically undo what was years of character development, don't you think "ruined Spider-Man stories forever" is kind of...hyperbolic? And unfair to the writers that came after?
@@ravenfrancis1476 The writers that followed are forever handcuffed when it comes to telling stories. Spider-Man can never truly progress again so long as the likes of Joe Q. are in any sorta power.
@@SlingMeAWeb Marvel continuity is long dead, they can do whatever. They got books with symbiote Spidey, 90s Spidey, alternate future Spidey daughter, alternate future Spidey son, the X-Men are pod people racists living in an ethnostate, etc.
He had also interrupted JMS’s run on Thor with Siege which, if I remember correctly, caused him to leave for DC.
I think Feige demoted Quesada
This interview series with Kirkman has been so useful for me. I am in the process of self publishing my own book and I love his insight into comics. It makes me more excited about what I'm doing and more confident too. Thank you!
A very enjoyable three-part interview despite Chris's uneven interview skills. Kirkman is an artist to admire. I especially liked that he was willing to be frank about Marvel's petty, shortsighted managerial methods. No surprise there, but satisfying to hear specifics for once.
It's a miracle we got what we did out of him with Chris at the helm.
Please please please please please do this again. Loved this little interview series, and your secret subtle friendship with each other.
I don't read kirkman books but always heard he a nice guy... Love him now after this... Explaining the issues at Marvel seems to fit why nothing decent has come out for almost two decades... In my eyes
If you get the chance, I recommend The Walking Dead, in reading it now in colour and it's honestly great.
One of the best comics in my pull list.
I totally agree. I don’t read comics anymore except the new daredevil title. It’s pretty well written and Checcetto has great art! For sure check out the graphic novel “know fear”
Great interview. Just the last section of the interview was incredibly valuable on ... especially his work habits and fitting your schedule to accommodate your life.
Love the classic wrestling style "shoot" interview,lol.
You should check out Cartoonist Kayfabe if you haven’t already
Great interview. You guys have great chemistry.
Love your interview style. Very well done!
I keep saying this, Image and the indies is where the good stuff's at.
Heavy Metal, 2000 A.D., Dynamite and Image never let me down.👌🏿breaks my heart to see what’s become of Marvel. I use to rep them over DC confidently but now, I’m not so sure.
I stopped reading marvel until those house of x books.
TMNT!!
Kirkman is a comic God. I've a very diverse taste in comics yet Kirkman's stuff makes for good reading. I put Invincible off for so long and once I got into it I was addicted. Hes worked his way from the ground up and I respect what he has to say.
Loved this interview. Great idea breaking it up into more manageable parts. Do you have many other creator interviews?
The poster behind him is the movie poster for the Gauntlet with Clint Eastwood. It was painted by Frank Frazetta.
I mean, after talking with Alan More to publish a Captain Britain trade, they forgot to put his name on it :)))
That's Marvel for you.
No. That was a request from Alan Moore. He asked Marvel to leave his name off his work on Captain Britain and Miracle Man. I don't understand it either.
@@chwenhoou www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Alan-Moore#Disputes
It did happen, though it was due to a printing error. But given that they got the rights to reprint them in an agreement that he will get full recognition, tjey should have goddamn check.
Alan Moore was riding Miracle Man without the Creator's the creator of Miracle Man's family complained about it Alan Moore apologized and does not take credit for Miracle Man stuff anymore Class Act
@@1978stevil This is not really about publishing new stories with his charaters that somebody else wrote, it's about republish old stories he wrote. Also he never blamed the writers or artists who use his charaters, he knows that DC is to blame (in the case of Watchmen).
And is not so much the fact they are using his characters, its that as long Watchmen is in print DC has the rights for them. When Allan started creating Watchmen understood that he and the artist would get the rights for them a year after they finish the comic miniseris, but DC hacked the contract, reprinting Watchmen every year so they chould keep the rights. Its not so much that Allan More is to sensitive, but he was done dirty by DC.
@@jonkeuviuhc1641 I totally agree
Great taking such a light touch approach and letting Robert Kirkman just talk so much, so informatively and so engagingly. The man is golden, cheers!
Chris, that was a brilliant use of "And Now the Conclusion"
Oh boy I know that professional tension RK is talking about when he was talking about competence & eagerness being construed as arrogance, in a big organization
edit: oh boy i know about shifting requirements too (re: Dr. Doom). The way he describes Marvel culture vs. Image culture (hands-on being rewarded vs. preferring to use process ) reminds me so much of startup vs. corporate software development
Edit2: honestly he sounds so stressed out. he reminds me so much of myself!! His mannerisms and how he describes himself and the kinds of social challenges he faced at Marvel, so familiar to my own life.
DS9 is the pinnacle of Trek and I would gladly watch a 7+ episode mini series from you reviewing and discussing it. Maybe one episode per season and a final wrap up/summary episode.
It is always crazy hearing about editorial. It always seems like they are either way to hands on and want to micromanage everything, or they are just empty chairs that let creators just do whatever they want regardless of long term consequences. Very rarely does it seem they hit that happy medium of guiding the books without being to heavy handed.
I have the strong compulsion to crack open a beer. Robert Kirkman seems like the kind of guy you need to have a beer with.
I got to meet Robert at a signing for Astonishing Wolfman at Mile High Comics. Really nice guy.
I'm enjoying this being released in bite sizes
I love the adventure of you trying to get a word in during this interview.
Love this series of interviews!
I love this video funny, full of Information and just plain fun thanks for making it you can tell that you two are friends that is why this was so nice to watch
Very educating, I loved the interview!
Make sure to space out the drops of these interviews. The twocat the same time then one today seems random. I really want your channel to grow so I am hoping for the best.
This Interview was a great watch
That's really disappointing, cause I think that if I worked for Marvel, I'd not be able to stand that bs and in the same way it would be like ruining my child dream. I wonder how the other artists got successful over the years with that crappy management.
Gotta love Kirkman honestly!!
did Robert talk about the Invincible TV show being made or how he felt about it?
Great mini series! I'd love to see an interview series with Ed Brubakker much in the same vein.
After 30 years, I stopped reading comics when these guys took over marvel. Avengers dissembled was the story that convinced me that it was too much trouble to go cross town to the comic store.
Thankyou Rob and Chris for a great episode!! :)"):)
Ooh there's more parts?! Very nice.
Marvel Comics: Corporate, Overtly Censored; soap-operas, that enslave writers and destroy creativity.
Still need Dawn of X and Wolverine DX.
I really relate to Kirkman on texting LET ME EAT MY SANDWICH
It makes me sad to hear how Kirkman was treated by Marvel, because I loved his work on Marvel Zombies
Wow! This is the best series of interviews with Mr. Kirkman! I hope you will continue this idea in the future and can arrange in-depth interviews like this with other creators! Brian Michael Bendis comes to mind (I have spoken to him a number of times and he seems like he could give you a series of interviews on par with Mr. Kirkman’s.) I especially like your questions about his work day! Fascinating stuff!!
Love these Kirkman stories!!!
"...'cause I gotta keep my womanly figure."
Liked and favorite'd. What a gem.
Really enjoying this interview
The Iredeemable Ant-Man is genuinely my favourite Marvel comic series ever! Love Robert Kirkman!!!
long time I didn't watch an episode and I found some really nice interview from comics authors. What a good surprise.
Great interview! Very informative and insightful. Thank you.
This was a really great interview thanks Chris and Robert.
“I don’t need an editor.”
Dude, everyone needs an editor. At the very minimum, you need someone proofreading your work, catching simple errors that you, as the author, are not going to catch because you know how it’s SUPPOSED to read. Usually it’s also higher-level stuff, like telling the writer to cut down on exposition or to find a less clunky way of writing a scene. Sometimes it’s pointing out that a character is taking an unreasonable action just to further the plot.
One of the items on the Evil Overlord List is having a 5 year old on staff to point out obvious flaws in your evil plan. Having an editor is like that.
It sounds like your problem is not that you had editors at Marvel, it’s that you had bad ones.
Does Alan Moore need an editor ?
juggernaut44 yes. For the same reasons stated above
@@juggernaut44 Alan Moore has said himself: yes! Hell, in his essay "Writing for comics" he talks about his editors and rules that stuck with him because of how good they are, like how much dialogue you're supposed to use per panel/page.
Gus Smedstad this guy gets it
Exactly. Stephen King is a big supporter of writers having editors, as are many other authors. Unless you're writing a book only you plan on reading, the second set of eyes is vital.
Just finished the part before. Perfect timing.
Robert: I wake up at 5:30am in the morning.
Me: I wake up at 12:00pm noon.
Next Generation for me, and maybe bit of Voyager!! I never realized how many comics I like that Mr Kirkman was involved in, wow. These interview videos have been great, thanks for doing this!
Whew! That cliffhanger was killing me! :)
I wish the music in the beginning was way louder.
This is an example of being a good interviewer. What does he have to lose talking about his Marvel problems? Why not ask him? Nice job, wonderful channel.
Love this format and of course your unique platform.
You got to appreciate kirkman ability to call out BS, in all too common workplace politics.
Robert Kirkman is the only man that made me follow his series for over YEARS.
I started with Invincible and Walking Dead when they started. I followed TWD until the Negan-story arc and I have consecutively followed Invincible to the end.
I think that he actually cares for a good story and his strength is therefore complete creative freedom.
I do not like the 'corporate heroes' much. Because even when they reboot and reboot and reboot, it does not feel at stakes at all.
There is no consequence. While in invincible for example, it felt like it meant something. Aaaand Ryan Ottley is a blast.
As great/epic as Invincible and Walking Dead were, their endings seem very abrupt compared to their longevity. It seems like once he gets tired and/or runs out of ideas he just wraps it up with a subpar ending compared to the work that preceded it.
well said
These videos have been a highlight of my day this week. Yeah, there's not much going on in my life.
Love them, keep'em coming. Thanks
I love this interview series. Great dynamic between you and Kirkman.
Petty jealousy, that what seem that was going on at Marvel. They felt they had this great successful writer on a leash that they could abuse for their sick pleasure.
Marvel today.
When was this recorded?
I have NEVER liked Joe Quesada as an editor. I feel like most of Marvel's bad decisions usually had his fingerprint somewhere on it. He was great for some creators, but kryptonite to others.
i am on his side one hundred percent marvel comics are just run by corporate which is just sad.
Exactly no build up or characters growth and not allow characters to marry like spider man which this what happens when people or how should we say editors get they have to much power
@@jacobrivera1721 indeed and that's just sad because the movies and tv shows on the other hand are allowing these characters we knew from the comics actually are allowed to grow and develop and move forward while marvel comics on the other hand is stuck in the past and refuses to let these characters move forward.
@@TevyaSmolka I have agree my biggest issue with there to many writers or editors stuck in past as Mary Jane one said in parallel live we take risk that how we all grow not because we know outcomes similar how she chooses to meet Peter and married him that one thing editors don’t understand her characters it letting people grow up this not how great Stan lee would want this he even said in interviews he want Spiderman grow up and get married but we can’t that because editors or higher up stuck in past they say that want characters and be relatable but they don’t know what even mean it make Spiderman life story or renew your vow or Spidergirl and yes including mile popular but can’t move forward unless they fire some of the editors like quesada in my personal opinion I would have fired him
@@jacobrivera1721 indeed and that's the main problem in a nutshell these editors and writers are so afraid of letting there characters grow up and mature like us that its just sad and depressing to watch, and honestly this is why I prefer like you said Spider-girl mayday parker and renew your vows because both of those series let Spider-Man Peter parker actually grow up and mature and become a actual adult and him being with his wife mary jane was really awesome and super cute and adorable, and to not see that main marvel universe is just sad and depressing.
@@TevyaSmolka very true
My two cents.
1) I do not agree with your politics.
2) I like your show
BUT
You did a great job with interview.
1) allow subject to talk
2) good question
3) good knowing of the subject.
I really hope y'all talk about the invincible show
Dig the Frazetta movie poster behind him.
Apropos of absolutely _nothing,_ you clearly have been losing weight, and you look terrific as a result. On behalf of all of us fighting that same battle - keep up the good work, Chris!
Great interview. Thanks for posting.
Those at Marcel now seem to be riding the coattails of those that came before them. Destroying the reputation the whole way.
I’ve just read Oblivion Song 25 and absolutely loved it, by the way Robert please do a Science Dog series the teaser I read in issue 25 was great , it felt like a lovely replacement for the gap left by Invincible
Kirkman: "So, when they offered me..."
And then Chris steps on it with an interjection and he never completes that thought because the subject is changed. Would have been interesting to hear what Marvel offered him that he turned down.
Chris is a great guy but not a good interview at all.
@@unicornevil6913 Interviewing someone that you know is really hard. I agree Chris could have been better at times, and I've thought that about a lot of his interviews (I'm sure he's working on it) but he has managed to create something entertaining and thought provoking, so he gets a thumbs up from me!
When he said “then they offered me” I believe he was referring to Image offering him partner
@Sebastian Shaw That's pretty harsh to just say he's pretentious and bad. Sometimes he interrupts, but the interviews are very enjoyable and Chris tries his best
Star Trek - I've watched every episode.
TNG and later DS9 for me! Although love the orginal crew! :)
This was fantastic thank you so much keep up the good work and love the Mr.Rodenbery form star trek. It was relly nice to see the inside industry he is out spoken and very honest love it brother. This is what I like to see The artist and writers problems with a little sprinkles of drama with Cooperation's .loved this .The G Man .
Why tony moore never worked in walking dead comics again ???
is what i would have asked
Well, that info is already out there. And I’m good pals with Tony as well.
Does anyone know which book the oneshot Kirkman was talking about is?
So I like Kirkman, and he seems like a great guest... but I get the feeling like he's a tad full of himself...all of his stories he puts himself as the victim...I'm quite sure there's a BIG 'other side' to the story not from his perspective...also he takes jokes from Chris too literally...
Yeah I noticed that about Kirkman as well but there's some truth to what he's saying. Grant Morrison got fed up with Marvel Editorial since they would tell him one thing and later flip on him. Even Millar said when he was doing Civil War Editorial was a mess and writers would spoil things from the main event in their own tie-in stories before the main event got to them. Not to mention some editors and writers hated that Millar made the proreg win. Of course ask Bendis and he will tell you a different story, but Bendis like Greg Land were pretty close to Joe Quesada who was the EiC back then.
A little bit, he has a pretty big ego. However, I can attest that Joe Quesada is a huge asshat, so I can't really fault him there and it sounds pretty accurate.
I forgot to say thanks, Chris, for all the hard work it must've taken to put this long interview together. Quality content, man!
Kick man does have an ego image said he didn’t need an editor. Something that really stupid an editor’s job is meant to help the writer get across their story and fix any errors.
Even Alan Moore who’s infamous for not liking people changing his works says editors are important and he listens to them. He even stated they had in fact help his work by limiting words on a page and help make the story flow better.
Tom Jordan That man wanted to invite Bill Maher to an event just after Maher insulted the comic book industry as being stupid.
That’s why I never got into mainstream comics, (also graphic design in general) the editors whimsically want the artists and writers to completely redo the entire pages or books over and over again because the talent didnt ’get’ the stained cocktail napkin with the outline on it. ‘The Marvel Way’ of writing..
What an interesting listen! Sounds like the K-Man just wasn't the right fit for Marvel, but it's great that he's made such a success of himself now.
It would be like an editor telling Frank Miller, Alan Moore, or Howard Chaykin how to do their job. Especially these new Woke Editors that don't know their asses from a hole in the ground. Talent so above the editor... glad he is doing well away from the Business Management Major Woke Crew.
@@exexpat11 Talking about alan moore and complaining about wokeness. Do you even know Alan Moore? What a poser.
@@nathansossai I have read Alan Moore since 1980 and I lived in the UK for 5 years in the mid 80's - POSER. Having that perspective I see a lot more in his writings than you do.
INVINCIBLE is one of my favorite comic books of all time 😎👍
love the Ds9 intro
I will never understand why Marvel didn't give this man room to create freely at Marvel. His Stealth book is fucking amazing. This man has only gotten better at the artform. Glad that he avoided the political nonsense of comicsgate.
Joe Quesada was definitely something else. #WorstEditorInChief
Shawn Zamir FFXV what does Comicsgate have to do with marvel or Robert Kirkman? What political nonsense?
Chris giving us sum sweeet tea, with this interview
There is a part3? I have not seen part 1 yet, might need to borrow some sort of time machine
I could listen to these two talk all day lol
I laughed at the "I do a fair bit of exercise because, you know, I don't wanna die" comment - big brain time!
Kirkman got me into comics. This is awesome, dude.
Last time on Comic troupes
Star trek Voyager computer voice nice dude.
Joe Quesada not giving a damn about X-Men no surprise here
Legit thought he was going to say Comic Tropes too.
A true insight of what actually goes on at Marvel Headquarters. I have always felt it was the editors that kept screwing up the ASM title back in the late 70s and early 80s
Everything this man writes becomes my favorite.
Just watched the whole video, I liked it. And referring to the end of the video, over here in Oklahoma- I MAKE TIME TO WATCH COMIC TROPES!
What happened with Outer Darkness? Why can’t the writer take it somewhere else?