@@etherealicer 18kg? Dang my steel framed era as a junior on a 53cm frame(criminally oversized I literally have only 9cm of seatpost out and my handlebar and saddle are almost level) was 9.8kg. It was a Bridgestone Radac (aluminium front triangle so technically not full steel). Now I'm on a Giant TCR and I feel carried in my level of competition by how good my bike is.
@@dan_lazaro Well, it is a 20 year old tourer, not a racer with all the works. Full sized mud guards, trailer attachment, cargo rack, basket, even a chain guard and a dynamo (always on). Still get around 100km / week and a top speed of around 33km/h out of it... I'm considering buying a gravel bike now (or something in that spirit), though I can't see myself wear lycra. 😁
@@etherealicer I see. I ride a TCR Advanced now so I revived my vintage scott full rigid mtb and it came in at 11.5kg with a road crankset and a 14-28 block to ride for groceries. I think my lights are worth more than the entire bike but I tune it up and in my opinion the ride quality it has is definitely better than you'd expect from a bike that I'd be hard-pressed to pay 50$ for lol. Edit: I also put 2.35 tires on it instead of the usual 1.95 you find on old mtbs and it is a bit noisy on the road but it looks cooler and handles xc well.
Climbs is the hand my local geography has dealt so I opted for lightweight over aero. Plus there is a bit of a price difference and I was pushing affordability to get an electronic groupset. And a double thumbs up to Ollie and Alex - that was a lovely co-presenting job. A really enjoyable watch.
@@gcntech Vitus Vitesse EVO CR eTap AXS Road (Rival) heavily influenced by this GCN video with Sean Kelly 2 years ago ruclips.net/video/7HMzq6Mi-Is/видео.html
People overestimate weightadvantages or throwing away a water bottle. Gearing is what actually provides an advantage. Shaving that 2 pounds of weight is the same as emptying out your pockets before you ride. Won't make a difference whatsoever.
I’d go Aero, they look so much cooler. Also most of my riding is on flatter terrain, I’ll just have to work a little harder on the climbing which should make me STRONGER! Thanks for your work, you two always do top notch content.
Not just that but lightweight bikes tend to give very poor gains even in climbing because the most important factor in climbing isn't weight.... It's your gearing and sustainable power.
@jason200912 having a lightweight bike doesn't hurt your ability to produce power🙃 If you only care about your climbing speed and the climbs you do are very steep, you want that lightweight bike. *Every kind of bike someone uses should have the necessary gear range for the terrain they're riding
The lightweight bikes of the mid 2010s were my dream to own, but even if the same bikes these days have changed quite a bit (in spec and price…) I’d still choose them because I love climbing!
Having purchased a new bike yesterday I did not consider aero or weight. I was looking for comfort and build. For the last 47 years I've have ridden exclusively steel frames with down tube friction shifters. My old body wasn't liking the harsher ride and limited gearing. So with my new Giant Defy with mechanical Ultegra. I have gotten less weight, more aero, wider gearing, better shifting, and more importantly comfort. I have moved into the modern age. But I still appreciate my steel bikes.
@@manitolas and thats a good bike , capable of many things . 35mm tires and you cann go woods. or put some good wheels, and they feel fast. it is the bike i will take to brevets in future .
I think Ollie perfectly said why, even in the face of evidence, most amateur riders choose light weight. On my group rides, we stay together on the flats and race up the hills. Every hill. The aero advantage is wasted on our group rides. Maybe an aero bike gives a rider slightly more energy for the climbs (less effort on the flat parts), but given the differences in your climbing results, probably not enough to offset the light weight advantages on a climb.
You are riding with a group, aero has no benefit unless you're always at the front pulling. Group rides rely on drafting so no aero is necessary. Light weight becomes more important in Group rides because you want to keep up with the group to maintain the draft effect on hills. So the best choice for Group rides is the one that you can keep up with on any terrain
@@bluemystic7501 "No one is getting dropped on the flats" :)),, ye yeaa, when i stay forward with good legs with aerobike, then i hang everytime people, and tha i like, because riding at the last line ist not the best option for aero benefits, maybe 2. or 3 line. but not the last. thats why so much weaker riders make the mistake and goes at the back. yaa but anyway a lightweight bike cann perform in a groupride better at the end, i see that. but it is a little bbit of the course and routing
@@gcntechI couldn't which is why I have two lol. I started with my lightweight bike for riding the mountains of Colorado. Now have the aero for riding with the trade winds in Hawai'i. Yes, I am VERY lucky indeed! ⛰🏝😀
@@gcntech I did the same test as you did for a particular ride (flat, climb, undulating) and my lightweight bike was faster with flats than my aero bike with clipless pedals.42k 1:47:40 on flats vs 1:55:41 on aero clipless. My cranksets are different though Semi-compact vs compact. Is there a video there comparing the times of the various cranksets? Standard, Semi, and Compact chainsets?
Amazing video ! You should do another one with the third polyvalent bike category like the Tarmac SL7, BMC Teammachine or Pinarello Dogma F. I guess this category should be faster on your course as the specs should be more balanced.
It is very nice to have a lightweight bike in the black forrest here in Germany. I am with Ollie, climbs are more challanging than fast flat outs. Nice vid again folks, keep up the good work! :)
With all the disclaimers in place, this was still super interesting and informative. One thing you only briefly mentioned is acceleration. For an individual effort like this one, acceleration isn’t a factor, but when adding group dynamics, it becomes a major factor. Getting back up to speed multiple times potentially negates the aero benefits. Chris Miller pointed this out with Plaps victory in the Australian nationals. He won with shallow, lightweight rims as it seems he planned to win from one big acceleration away from the group.
Great video. Cutting into the detail, the gains on the climb Ollie knocked out are relevant to those with the climbing physique. For the average viewer, the best bike to choose is the one that inspires you to ride more, or that little further.
I love these vids, great work. Please do one looking at the effect of weight on a flat course where speed changes are common. We spend more time accelerating on bikes than maybe we think, speed is always changing.
0:24 Ollie, When is GCN going to come out with their own pinup calendar with all of the GCN Presenters??? 9:54 - Alex, "Don't eat my snacks out of my storage box." Classic smile by Ollie Great video Alex and Ollie keep them coming!!
All Arounder / hybrid bike I would say, which is pretty much what I already have. A race-influenced lightweight , DeRosa R838 with aero features and components such as flat aero bars, aero seat post, and fast HED wheels with optimized Specialized tires. You guys have confirmed I have a great and practical machine. So cheers to your video!
Great video. Here is another good idea for a video: Where are your watts better spent? On climbs or on flats? Go on the same mixed terrain and do tried with the same bike. On one try, try going z2 on the flat and threshold on the climbs and z1 on the descends. On the other try go Z3 throughout the whole course. Try averaging the same watts. This is how we can see where are watts worth spending.
Given that the rider’s position makes the biggest aero gains, I wonder if the difference on the test came from a more aggressive position of the rider on the aero bike. I’ve setup a good aero position on my lightweight bike and it’s certainly not slower than my aero bike.
I think an important consideration is that in both friendly group rides and road races, the big efforts and attacks tend to be on the hills, even in a race situation alot of the riding on the flats it’s relatively steady state and not too challenging to keep pace. In this regard the balance of what bike is faster over a course could swing the other way, even a fairly flat course with a couple of steep kickers could favour a lightweight bike if that is where the attacks happen.
like do the math guys, look up how much heavier the bike is, look at the CdA difference, run it through a calculator. Don't need quantum mechanics to work it out
@@clb4947strong cyclists are going fast enough on climbs that wind resistance is still significant, and aero bikes are only a couple hundred grams heavier. thats out of like 70,000gram system weight so it isn’t very significant. People tend to think of this tradeoff as if aero bikes were 5kg heavier or as if air doesn’t exist on hills.
@@clb4947CdA is coefficient of drag times frontal area, using that and a given speed you can compute drag force, or compute how fast a cyclist will hold at a given power.
Nice comparison. The comment about Moonbase Alpha reminds me that you could see the the strings holding the ships when they were flying through space 😂. Worthless knowledge but funny anyway 😊. Great show as always 👍
exactly the movie i needed on the day when Im looking for a new bike. Need to show this to wife - "see, i need aero one!". thanks guys! even though im mostly climbing, and theres ton to cut in other places (rider weight, clothes etc)... plus - 1kg difference between bikes is a bidon of water full/empty...
Great final comment from Ollie, at the end of the day it’s enjoying the ride and for each of us, what gives most enjoyment, is different. Like Ollie I have a perverse pleasure in beasting myself on climbs so lightweight for me. Plus a fund a lighter ‘snappier’ bike more ‘fun’.
Combined with what Dan Bigham said about the aero suit being just a little advantage over bibs and jersey, the difference was 99% Ollie‘s aero socks. The differences are completely insignificant for me in a Gran Fondo, it‘s mainly about how much strength work I do and how long I can hold the aero position.
Good one Chaps. Lean machine Ollie can enjoy tapas now that "being dropped" has been dropped from the Bridgewood lexicon. Well supported by Alex. Roll on more from GCN Tech
Glad we could help! Hope winter isn't keeping you down! In face Conor and Manon have just shared their top tips in beating winter 👉 ruclips.net/video/KxcSGEqhSCw/видео.html
very useful 👍👍👍...it would be great for next comparison video to find out the time difference in drafting position using same set of bikes and same test location
I really like the Ollie final comment: climb is what cycling it's all about! I’ll chose lightweight for the rest of my life, off course if the producer company will improve the aero of this bike I not affecting the weight I'll like it
Hi guys, I like the video. The weight difference is 2 bidons then. I think you are right when you point out the comparative difference in weight + rider, and Alex (heavier rider) was noticeably lower power in descent (more gravity assist!). I'm not likely to be buying a next bike, though I've long wanted a titanium bike. What difference does aero make? A story from my own experience then. About 20 years ago, when deep rim wheels were rare and expensive, I had a 1 hour 40 minute (23 mile) commute (no I didn't do it every day) with 2 down hill, 2 up (both steep) and a fair amout of flat. I designed a home made aero wheel based on a article in "aerodynamic drag" by Hoerner which comprise a ring of "corex" plastic (light weight twin wall) about 3 inches (76mm) trapped in the spokes, front wheel only, otherwise exactly the same bike. On two consecutive rides with similar warm still conditons I saved 6 minutes with the aero. Thats 6% faster. I would always choose aero because ny rides are long, have a lot of flat and inevitably into wind.
Interesting, they say the faster you are going, aero component becomes exponentially more important. By this logic im thinking in a strong headwind on flat, the aero bike might be much more efficient also?
Thanks again for such a brilliant video. I was debating if I should trade in my Cannondale Caad 10 for an Areo to ride something different under foot. I'm keeping my Caad 10. When I want something different under foot, I'll pull my steel Pinarello Super Record out of the stable. Thanks again for all you do for the biking world.
I would love for you to revisit this topic. But I would like you to ride the current bikes as well as past aero bikes and lightweight bikes from 10 years ago as well. It would be very interesting to see how much faster the newer bikes are or are not than bikes that old. So older aero bike vs newer aero bike, same thing as lightweight bikes.
I’d love to know how it changes for an actual event or group ride when holding the wheel is so important meaning every time there is gradient you would need to surge more for the extra kilos to stay on the wheel plus the aero effect would be reduced in the draft. This would even work on the ‘flat’ (rollers) like was seen in the pro +\- 20 kg video from awhile ago. Maybe it comes out in the wash without the aero but Would love to see a comparison where you maintain speed instead of power (like the pro +\- 20 kg vid) maybe in a group setting too to see the different effort required or how many matches you’d have to burn.
I agree. The question is where does the separation happen on a group ride? Assuming people are of roughly similar ability then the separation nearly always happens on the climbs. You’re not going to drop someone of similar ability on the flat just because you’re on an aero bike and they’re not.
I chose the Orbea Orca OMX, aero where it needs to be, and it climbs like a dream. Best of both worlds, can't wait to see Team Lotto/Dstny rocking Orbea next year! Campenaerts is going to love the Orca Aero!
I have a 2021 Venge pro…Same carbon layup as the Venge S-Works, and well…It looks fantastic! 30 seconds more/less/same than my lightweight Tarmac doesn’t matter when I get goosebumps every time I look at the bike! LOL! Too bad Specialized discontinued that frame…Best looking ever IMO.
What about a similar comparison on gravel? Does a light bike help more on rough dirt roads with possible steeper sections? Does aero matter as much at slower speeds on dirt roads?
anyone ride a climbing bike with zero aero frame and ride behind a groups drifting,already beats that aero bikes gain and countless points gains.only best answer is the tt,aniway that aero bike is quite tempting ,thanks for the video
With regard to Ollie's point about only noticing the weight penalty of the aero bike when accelerating, this makes me think that the lighter bike is better when racing and responding to regular attacks. But then again, if you're using less power when rolling along on the aero bike, maybe you've got more left in the tank for those attacks. Or to actually initiate one. Something I'm not inclined to do myself.
The reasons why Ollie gained a relative 20 seconds over Alex on the lightweight bike up the ascent - and was almost a minute faster over both the flat and climb segments - was because he averaged 30 watts more throughout each and weighs 10kg less. Curious as to why you didn’t match your watts per kilo? Then if any discrepancy had still existed between your times - relative to each other - we could have been certain it was down to a combination of body shape & riding technique! Regardless, entertaning and informative as always!
Enjoyed this video, although of course the heavier bike is always going to be faster downhill, whether aero or not. Although I am a heavier rider (85 kg) and not much of a climber, I would still go with the lightweight bicycle for the responsiveness but there is a lot to be said for comfort for long rides.
Thanks, GCN, and I never tire of these comparisons, tho' it seems they are pretty much equal. And my decision would be made on looks, I like dropped stays but not the severe ones, so here I would choose the light bike. But color is important, too, and price, of course. And I'm happy for aero fans that they have aero bikes. :)
I find the Aero bikes look really nice. Given that is true... I like the lighter bike.... cost difference is definitely a factor... Aero bikes in general cost more...
thanks for your ideas. Good content at the right moment. 👍 For the long rides over +2 dyas I use the Grizl with 4 Season 700x32. I'm looking for something for the faster rides and duathlon competitions. The shortlist includes the ultimate Cf 7 with Di2with or aeroad cf sl8 with ultegra... budget 4000€
I'm not a super powerful rider but am 200 lbs so I feel like a combination is key! Lightweight & aero is my go to! Being able to tuck in & fly downhill makes lugging myself uphill worthwhile!
A better test would be to ride together, then compare the average wattages. (You would adjust for the difference in your body weights by carrying additional gels.)
IMHO Get both.. or make your aero bike as light as you can. For me, gearing matters on a GF ride too, and use aero clothing (judging by your other recent vid!) great vid Btw!
this Video so helpful. Can u compare with Semi aero bike such as Cervelo Soloist Cervelo R5 (Light weight) Cervelo Soloist (Semi aero) Cervelo S5 (Aero)
I'm in the 50s...and I am not into racing, so I am not into the fast lane. My questions would be - can I ride in those 3 conditions (uphill, flat, and downhill)? Flat and downhill? Definitely can. How fast can I go? I don't really care - if I can make 30, 35 or 40 km/h at my age, I already feel good. Uphill? Now, that is something else. Again, as you grow older, pumping your heart like as though you are in the 30s might not be a good idea. I don't know about watts but I know my heart and I can feel it strain whenever I go uphill. So, if you ask me which one I prefer, then I guess it would be the lightweight ones. I can still ride 'fast' at the flats and downhills and I can ride fairly with ease whenever I face uphill challenge. But this is just me.
I just purchased a lightweight aero bike. Not that the aero bike is light per se, it's just that my current bike is a 9kg aluminium bike. So it's win win for me!
Do the same study wherein you have attacking style riding instead of steady on the flat and steady on the climb, more like a race with repeated accelerations and then slower sections as well.
I'm pretty light and like climbing, so I bought an aero bike! My thinking was that that way, I can follow my friends on the flat and I'll destory them a little less uphill :D Also, I live in Flanders. We don't have hills longer than two minutes.
Practical testing is always good. It has uncovered many cases where things are more complex than they seem. Wider tires and lower pressures are an example. In this case, anyone who understood a well taught physics course knows that the areo bike is faster on varied terrain. Aero wins on flats, areo wins at speed (including descents). Lightweight only helps climbing, and the savings may be partly canceled by aero and flex (possibly) only giving a partial advantage. The difference of only 0.5 kg is also not a lot. In best bike split I added 4# (1.8kg) to my bike and it added less than 10 minutes to a 100 mile MTB race. I'd say it got it about right. Now if I could only lose 10kg, I'd be more areo and faster on climbs..
I have three reactions to this entertaining video: 1. I'm shocked Ollie said he'd pick a lightweight bike over an aero one; 2. I'm impressed that Ollie has improved his performance so markedly since getting dropped a couple of years ago; it's kind of inspiring. 3. The performance difference in this video between the lightweight bike and the aero bike is about 30 seconds in the course of an admittedly poorly-controlled 15-20 minute trial; that roughly amounts to a 3% difference, which is statistically insignificant and, for most riders, pretty trivial. My big takeaway here is that you should just ride the bike that makes you happy and not worry about it very much. BTW, Alex has become one of my favorite presenters on this channel; he's competent, clear, matter-of-fact, cheerful, and unpretentious, all qualities I appreciate.
I think a big part of the similar times is the aero-ness of today's lightweight bikes. Carbon tech just keeps getting better and a lightweight aero bike is evolving. Great times we live in!
I have 1 aero light 7.2kg de Rosa super king 2. Scott addict r3, 6.34kg with cl24 Dura Ace 3. Scott addict newer with some aero & aero wheels I am less tired using the aero bikes, I plan to put aero wheels on the bike… adding Aero influences, & optimised tires makes a positive difference. I would be like Ollie!
Same event but total watts over the course when one drafts the other. My guess is that weight will come out less. A smart rider drafts when possible. You are right as this represents a TT
Having ridden several Gran Fondos, the timed sections tend to be on climbs. Riding at threshold for the uphill would simulate the timed sections of a GF.
I have ridden lightweight bikes all the time. I think I will go for a aero bike this time. But seeing there are now lightweight with aero tubing frames available, makes it difficult for me to decide which one. 😂. I want something that's comfortable, climbs easy and is fast on longer rides. I'm used to the comfortable long and easy climb , rides.
A far more interesting test would be to do the same test but running the same aero wheels. I can say from personal experience, that running really light wheels and then switching to Enve 4.5s on the same frame made a MASSIVE difference, the deep dish being much, much faster.
For these tests you guys should weight before each run and make sure to weight the same by drinking water, because depending on each person, temp and effort, you can sweat a lot during these tests, and damage the results.
another great video lads! actually my favourite ride seems to be some kind of Frankenstein-Bike: a pretty light Ridley Fenix SL with some more endurance orientated geometry. A convenient position is with one 0.5mm spacer. Bike is equipped with rimbrakes and 60mm carbon aero wheels. rideready at 7.1kg. light and aero :-)
I test rode a 2014 Venge against a Tarmac and the biggest difference was the quality of the ride. The venge felt like a hard piece of wood yes it was stiff and aero but the tarmac was super comfy and light. I chose the tarmac. As I was more comfortable and on long rides that’s all that actually matters in the end.
Which do you prefer: lightweight or aero bikes? Let us know in the comments below! 👇
light weight
I'm a TT/flat rider at best so Aero bike for me BUT I own a BMC Team Machine slr02 and I love it 😁
AERO for me.... Unirox Aeroad
As long as it looks dope
Like weight bike for the win RIM BRAKES!
So, in conclusion, if you’re not a World Tour Pro get the type of bike that you prefer the ride feel of 👍
That is why I ride a 18kg-non aero-steel frame 😂
@@etherealicer 18kg? Dang my steel framed era as a junior on a 53cm frame(criminally oversized I literally have only 9cm of seatpost out and my handlebar and saddle are almost level) was 9.8kg. It was a Bridgestone Radac (aluminium front triangle so technically not full steel). Now I'm on a Giant TCR and I feel carried in my level of competition by how good my bike is.
@@dan_lazaro Well, it is a 20 year old tourer, not a racer with all the works. Full sized mud guards, trailer attachment, cargo rack, basket, even a chain guard and a dynamo (always on). Still get around 100km / week and a top speed of around 33km/h out of it...
I'm considering buying a gravel bike now (or something in that spirit), though I can't see myself wear lycra. 😁
@@etherealicer damn i used yo ride one with the dame weight 😅🤣 , it's a torture
@@etherealicer I see. I ride a TCR Advanced now so I revived my vintage scott full rigid mtb and it came in at 11.5kg with a road crankset and a 14-28 block to ride for groceries. I think my lights are worth more than the entire bike but I tune it up and in my opinion the ride quality it has is definitely better than you'd expect from a bike that I'd be hard-pressed to pay 50$ for lol.
Edit: I also put 2.35 tires on it instead of the usual 1.95 you find on old mtbs and it is a bit noisy on the road but it looks cooler and handles xc well.
Climbs is the hand my local geography has dealt so I opted for lightweight over aero. Plus there is a bit of a price difference and I was pushing affordability to get an electronic groupset. And a double thumbs up to Ollie and Alex - that was a lovely co-presenting job. A really enjoyable watch.
Great to hear you've found a bike that works for your riding! Lightweight bikes are a great all round option 🙌 What bike did you go for?
@@gcntech Vitus Vitesse EVO CR eTap AXS Road (Rival) heavily influenced by this GCN video with Sean Kelly 2 years ago ruclips.net/video/7HMzq6Mi-Is/видео.html
People overestimate weightadvantages or throwing away a water bottle. Gearing is what actually provides an advantage.
Shaving that 2 pounds of weight is the same as emptying out your pockets before you ride. Won't make a difference whatsoever.
I’d go Aero, they look so much cooler. Also most of my riding is on flatter terrain, I’ll just have to work a little harder on the climbing which should make me STRONGER! Thanks for your work, you two always do top notch content.
Not just that but lightweight bikes tend to give very poor gains even in climbing because the most important factor in climbing isn't weight.... It's your gearing and sustainable power.
@jason200912 having a lightweight bike doesn't hurt your ability to produce power🙃 If you only care about your climbing speed and the climbs you do are very steep, you want that lightweight bike. *Every kind of bike someone uses should have the necessary gear range for the terrain they're riding
Here in south east Texas we have no hills here so I’d definitely go for aero
@@jason200912 What are you talking about? Of cause weight is extremely important or rather power to weight ratio.
I love these kinds of comparison videos! Keep 'em coming :)
Thanks!
The lightweight bikes of the mid 2010s were my dream to own, but even if the same bikes these days have changed quite a bit (in spec and price…) I’d still choose them because I love climbing!
What bike do you have in mind? 👀
Ollie is looking more and more like Dan every day, even down to the posing. At this rate, he’ll have stopped riding altogether by Christmas next year.
prey for hs ankles
It’s hard to call yourself anything like Dan if you were never on the Cervélo test team tbh.
We'll have to keep an eye out on his "mineral water' intake...
Hahaha is he peaking do you think? 😂
@@johnnyloco11 ... "Pray" not "Prey" their is a significant difference their. LOL, that is taking micro aggressions to whole new level.
Having purchased a new bike yesterday I did not consider aero or weight. I was looking for comfort and build. For the last 47 years I've have ridden exclusively steel frames with down tube friction shifters. My old body wasn't liking the harsher ride and limited gearing. So with my new Giant Defy with mechanical Ultegra. I have gotten less weight, more aero, wider gearing, better shifting, and more importantly comfort. I have moved into the modern age. But I still appreciate my steel bikes.
Many happy milles 😀🤟
@@manitolas and thats a good bike , capable of many things . 35mm tires and you cann go woods. or put some good wheels, and they feel fast. it is the bike i will take to brevets in future .
I think Ollie perfectly said why, even in the face of evidence, most amateur riders choose light weight. On my group rides, we stay together on the flats and race up the hills. Every hill. The aero advantage is wasted on our group rides. Maybe an aero bike gives a rider slightly more energy for the climbs (less effort on the flat parts), but given the differences in your climbing results, probably not enough to offset the light weight advantages on a climb.
You are riding with a group, aero has no benefit unless you're always at the front pulling. Group rides rely on drafting so no aero is necessary.
Light weight becomes more important in Group rides because you want to keep up with the group to maintain the draft effect on hills. So the best choice for Group rides is the one that you can keep up with on any terrain
@@bonbonflippers4298 yeah truely agreed that is true👍,drafting is the problem experiancing someones body odour 😂
This is a great point. No one is getting dropped on the flats but climbs separate the men from the boys.
@@bluemystic7501 "No one is getting dropped on the flats" :)),, ye yeaa, when i stay forward with good legs with aerobike, then i hang everytime people, and tha i like, because riding at the last line ist not the best option for aero benefits, maybe 2. or 3 line. but not the last. thats why so much weaker riders make the mistake and goes at the back. yaa but anyway a lightweight bike cann perform in a groupride better at the end, i see that. but it is a little bbit of the course and routing
Have 1 of each and love them both! The joy outweighs the differences.
lol
One of each! Wow, very lucky 🙌 What if you had to choose one?
@@gcntechI couldn't which is why I have two lol.
I started with my lightweight bike for riding the mountains of Colorado. Now have the aero for riding with the trade winds in Hawai'i. Yes, I am VERY lucky indeed!
⛰🏝😀
@@gcntech I did the same test as you did for a particular ride (flat, climb, undulating) and my lightweight bike was faster with flats than my aero bike with clipless pedals.42k 1:47:40 on flats vs 1:55:41 on aero clipless. My cranksets are different though Semi-compact vs compact. Is there a video there comparing the times of the various cranksets? Standard, Semi, and Compact chainsets?
Amazing video ! You should do another one with the third polyvalent bike category like the Tarmac SL7, BMC Teammachine or Pinarello Dogma F. I guess this category should be faster on your course as the specs should be more balanced.
It is very nice to have a lightweight bike in the black forrest here in Germany. I am with Ollie, climbs are more challanging than fast flat outs. Nice vid again folks, keep up the good work! :)
With all the disclaimers in place, this was still super interesting and informative. One thing you only briefly mentioned is acceleration. For an individual effort like this one, acceleration isn’t a factor, but when adding group dynamics, it becomes a major factor. Getting back up to speed multiple times potentially negates the aero benefits.
Chris Miller pointed this out with Plaps victory in the Australian nationals. He won with shallow, lightweight rims as it seems he planned to win from one big acceleration away from the group.
Great video. Cutting into the detail, the gains on the climb Ollie knocked out are relevant to those with the climbing physique. For the average viewer, the best bike to choose is the one that inspires you to ride more, or that little further.
I love these vids, great work. Please do one looking at the effect of weight on a flat course where speed changes are common. We spend more time accelerating on bikes than maybe we think, speed is always changing.
Sounds like one we can do here at Uk Mega base! 🙌
Makes sense
0:24 Ollie, When is GCN going to come out with their own pinup calendar with all of the GCN Presenters???
9:54 - Alex, "Don't eat my snacks out of my storage box." Classic smile by Ollie
Great video Alex and Ollie keep them coming!!
All Arounder / hybrid bike I would say, which is pretty much what I already have. A race-influenced lightweight , DeRosa R838 with aero features and components such as flat aero bars, aero seat post, and fast HED wheels with optimized Specialized tires. You guys have confirmed I have a great and practical machine. So cheers to your video!
Great video. Here is another good idea for a video: Where are your watts better spent? On climbs or on flats? Go on the same mixed terrain and do tried with the same bike. On one try, try going z2 on the flat and threshold on the climbs and z1 on the descends. On the other try go Z3 throughout the whole course. Try averaging the same watts. This is how we can see where are watts worth spending.
higher efforts on the climbs are proven to pay bigger dividends.
Aero v lightweight, just have both! Go rim brake, i have and f10 that weighs 6.7kg with bottle cages and power meter included.
Pinarello f10
Given that the rider’s position makes the biggest aero gains, I wonder if the difference on the test came from a more aggressive position of the rider on the aero bike. I’ve setup a good aero position on my lightweight bike and it’s certainly not slower than my aero bike.
Probably ❤
This
I think an important consideration is that in both friendly group rides and road races, the big efforts and attacks tend to be on the hills, even in a race situation alot of the riding on the flats it’s relatively steady state and not too challenging to keep pace. In this regard the balance of what bike is faster over a course could swing the other way, even a fairly flat course with a couple of steep kickers could favour a lightweight bike if that is where the attacks happen.
Those big attacks on the hills will be faster with the aero bike.
like do the math guys, look up how much heavier the bike is, look at the CdA difference, run it through a calculator. Don't need quantum mechanics to work it out
@@JackMottstill new to cycling: What's CdA? And how does it make attacks on climb more performant for aero bikes? just curious
@@clb4947strong cyclists are going fast enough on climbs that wind resistance is still significant, and aero bikes are only a couple hundred grams heavier. thats out of like 70,000gram system weight so it isn’t very significant. People tend to think of this tradeoff as if aero bikes were 5kg heavier or as if air doesn’t exist on hills.
@@clb4947CdA is coefficient of drag times frontal area, using that and a given speed you can compute drag force, or compute how fast a cyclist will hold at a given power.
Gotta love Ollies smirk now that he's not the one getting dropped. Also love that you make him out to be kinda like a super hero with the rock n roll!
Hahaha he won't let us forget how fit he's become 😂
Nice comparison. The comment about Moonbase Alpha reminds me that you could see the the strings holding the ships when they were flying through space 😂. Worthless knowledge but funny anyway 😊. Great show as always 👍
exactly the movie i needed on the day when Im looking for a new bike. Need to show this to wife - "see, i need aero one!". thanks guys!
even though im mostly climbing, and theres ton to cut in other places (rider weight, clothes etc)... plus - 1kg difference between bikes is a bidon of water full/empty...
Great final comment from Ollie, at the end of the day it’s enjoying the ride and for each of us, what gives most enjoyment, is different.
Like Ollie I have a perverse pleasure in beasting myself on climbs so lightweight for me. Plus a fund a lighter ‘snappier’ bike more ‘fun’.
THIS ☝
Combined with what Dan Bigham said about the aero suit being just a little advantage over bibs and jersey, the difference was 99% Ollie‘s aero socks. The differences are completely insignificant for me in a Gran Fondo, it‘s mainly about how much strength work I do and how long I can hold the aero position.
Are you a fan on Aero or lightweight bikes? For us mortals there are some big changes to be made in training and prep 🙌
Good one Chaps. Lean machine Ollie can enjoy tapas now that "being dropped" has been dropped from the Bridgewood lexicon. Well supported by Alex. Roll on more from GCN Tech
This review/video was much appreciated.😀
Those videos are so helpfull in these winter days, thank you for all of them :) 👍
Glad we could help! Hope winter isn't keeping you down! In face Conor and Manon have just shared their top tips in beating winter 👉 ruclips.net/video/KxcSGEqhSCw/видео.html
Good to see the stats posted. Thanks for sharing
very useful 👍👍👍...it would be great for next comparison video to find out the time difference in drafting position using same set of bikes and same test location
riding the same watts. and 2 runs in each direction
Were they using the same tyres?
I really like the Ollie final comment: climb is what cycling it's all about! I’ll chose lightweight for the rest of my life, off course if the producer company will improve the aero of this bike I not affecting the weight I'll like it
Ollie is loving the hills wow . Should get a signing from a pro team anytime soon . happy days
He sits in GCN megabase everyday just waiting for the contract to arrive at the door!
Hi guys, I like the video. The weight difference is 2 bidons then. I think you are right when you point out the comparative difference in weight + rider, and Alex (heavier rider) was noticeably lower power in descent (more gravity assist!).
I'm not likely to be buying a next bike, though I've long wanted a titanium bike.
What difference does aero make? A story from my own experience then. About 20 years ago, when deep rim wheels were rare and expensive, I had a 1 hour 40 minute (23 mile) commute (no I didn't do it every day) with 2 down hill, 2 up (both steep) and a fair amout of flat. I designed a home made aero wheel based on a article in "aerodynamic drag" by Hoerner which comprise a ring of "corex" plastic (light weight twin wall) about 3 inches (76mm) trapped in the spokes, front wheel only, otherwise exactly the same bike. On two consecutive rides with similar warm still conditons I saved 6 minutes with the aero. Thats 6% faster.
I would always choose aero because ny rides are long, have a lot of flat and inevitably into wind.
Interesting, they say the faster you are going, aero component becomes exponentially more important. By this logic im thinking in a strong headwind on flat, the aero bike might be much more efficient also?
Thanks again for such a brilliant video. I was debating if I should trade in my Cannondale Caad 10 for an Areo to ride something different under foot. I'm keeping my Caad 10. When I want something different under foot, I'll pull my steel Pinarello Super Record out of the stable. Thanks again for all you do for the biking world.
Glad you're enjoying our videos!
I might be wrong...but the weight of the Aero bike also played to it's advantage on the descent :) Nice video :)
I would love for you to revisit this topic. But I would like you to ride the current bikes as well as past aero bikes and lightweight bikes from 10 years ago as well. It would be very interesting to see how much faster the newer bikes are or are not than bikes that old. So older aero bike vs newer aero bike, same thing as lightweight bikes.
I’d love to know how it changes for an actual event or group ride when holding the wheel is so important meaning every time there is gradient you would need to surge more for the extra kilos to stay on the wheel plus the aero effect would be reduced in the draft. This would even work on the ‘flat’ (rollers) like was seen in the pro +\- 20 kg video from awhile ago. Maybe it comes out in the wash without the aero but Would love to see a comparison where you maintain speed instead of power (like the pro +\- 20 kg vid) maybe in a group setting too to see the different effort required or how many matches you’d have to burn.
I agree. The question is where does the separation happen on a group ride? Assuming people are of roughly similar ability then the separation nearly always happens on the climbs. You’re not going to drop someone of similar ability on the flat just because you’re on an aero bike and they’re not.
I chose the Orbea Orca OMX, aero where it needs to be, and it climbs like a dream. Best of both worlds, can't wait to see Team Lotto/Dstny rocking Orbea next year! Campenaerts is going to love the Orca Aero!
Don’t forget that some people (like me) would want the aero bike at the weight of the lightweight bike, just to help getting up the climb.
I live in the Midwest USA, where hills are quite rare, so I would definitely go with an aero bike to take advantage of the ever-present flats.
Very cool video. Love it. Keep them coming.👍🏻🇨🇦
I’ve been waiting this experiment. Now i know which bike for me. Comfort is more important.
I have a 2021 Venge pro…Same carbon layup as the Venge S-Works, and well…It looks fantastic! 30 seconds more/less/same than my lightweight Tarmac doesn’t matter when I get goosebumps every time I look at the bike! LOL! Too bad Specialized discontinued that frame…Best looking ever IMO.
What about a similar comparison on gravel? Does a light bike help more on rough dirt roads with possible steeper sections? Does aero matter as much at slower speeds on dirt roads?
Anyone going to mention Ollie's glasses under his helmet strap on the right hand side? School boy.
Great studio! I advise some acoustic treatment that will bring down the reverberation time (echo).
anyone ride a climbing bike with zero aero frame and ride behind a groups drifting,already beats that aero bikes gain and countless points gains.only best answer is the tt,aniway that aero bike is quite tempting ,thanks for the video
With regard to Ollie's point about only noticing the weight penalty of the aero bike when accelerating, this makes me think that the lighter bike is better when racing and responding to regular attacks. But then again, if you're using less power when rolling along on the aero bike, maybe you've got more left in the tank for those attacks. Or to actually initiate one. Something I'm not inclined to do myself.
awesome video, appsolutely had bike envy watching this... get them in that bike volt
The reasons why Ollie gained a relative 20 seconds over Alex on the lightweight bike up the ascent - and was almost a minute faster over both the flat and climb segments - was because he averaged 30 watts more throughout each and weighs 10kg less. Curious as to why you didn’t match your watts per kilo? Then if any discrepancy had still existed between your times - relative to each other - we could have been certain it was down to a combination of body shape & riding technique! Regardless, entertaning and informative as always!
Enjoyed this video, although of course the heavier bike is always going to be faster downhill, whether aero or not. Although I am a heavier rider (85 kg) and not much of a climber, I would still go with the lightweight bicycle for the responsiveness but there is a lot to be said for comfort for long rides.
Thanks, GCN, and I never tire of these comparisons, tho' it seems they are pretty much equal. And my decision would be made on looks, I like dropped stays but not the severe ones, so here I would choose the light bike. But color is important, too, and price, of course. And I'm happy for aero fans that they have aero bikes. :)
Nothing wrong with thinking about the looks! The most important thing is you are excited to go out riding. Ride the bike that fires you up 🔥
That 80s soundtrack..😂🎉 pls do another one, for drafting gains for both bikes!
I find the Aero bikes look really nice. Given that is true... I like the lighter bike.... cost difference is definitely a factor... Aero bikes in general cost more...
The new propel is both aero and lightweight, but not cheap 😉
Good point about the system weight. Larger blokes like me have only one choice: aero :)
Feels like deja-vu. Another which bike type is best, shortly followed by another which tyre pressure is best, then which tyre width is best....
My 2021 Zanatta XCrossweighs in at 6,70kg ‘i’ve put thousands of km ‘s on it and it a great all round bike
thanks for your ideas. Good content at the right moment. 👍
For the long rides over +2 dyas I use the Grizl with 4 Season 700x32. I'm looking for something for the faster rides and duathlon competitions. The shortlist includes the ultimate Cf 7 with Di2with or aeroad cf sl8 with ultegra... budget 4000€
I've already picked areo for my next bike
Busy building up an AR Advanced Disk framset.
Very great comparison and breakdown. Keep it going 🔥🔥
Thanks! Glad you liked it. What kind of bike do you prefer?
I have a specialize tarmac and a vengue. The vengue looks great, but my tarmac gives me faster times and more comfortable
I'm not a super powerful rider but am 200 lbs so I feel like a combination is key! Lightweight & aero is my go to! Being able to tuck in & fly downhill makes lugging myself uphill worthwhile!
A better test would be to ride together, then compare the average wattages. (You would adjust for the difference in your body weights by carrying additional gels.)
@GCNTech - Maths worked? Wow! Does this mean an Aero bike is better for Fondos than Endurance bike?!? Would love this test as a Aero vs Endurance!
Would have been nice to have this comparison between the Canyon ultimate and aeroad or other models that share the same geometry!
IMHO Get both.. or make your aero bike as light as you can. For me, gearing matters on a GF ride too, and use aero clothing (judging by your other recent vid!) great vid Btw!
this Video so helpful.
Can u compare with Semi aero bike such as Cervelo Soloist
Cervelo R5 (Light weight)
Cervelo Soloist (Semi aero)
Cervelo S5 (Aero)
I'm in the 50s...and I am not into racing, so I am not into the fast lane. My questions would be - can I ride in those 3 conditions (uphill, flat, and downhill)? Flat and downhill? Definitely can. How fast can I go? I don't really care - if I can make 30, 35 or 40 km/h at my age, I already feel good. Uphill? Now, that is something else. Again, as you grow older, pumping your heart like as though you are in the 30s might not be a good idea. I don't know about watts but I know my heart and I can feel it strain whenever I go uphill. So, if you ask me which one I prefer, then I guess it would be the lightweight ones. I can still ride 'fast' at the flats and downhills and I can ride fairly with ease whenever I face uphill challenge. But this is just me.
Nice set!
It is actually awesome to see other Cyclists out for a casual ride in the background.
I just purchased a lightweight aero bike.
Not that the aero bike is light per se, it's just that my current bike is a 9kg aluminium bike. So it's win win for me!
Nice! I bet you're excited to give it a spin
@@gcntech I've waited months to be able to actually order the bike so yeah. Can't wait to be fully Oli... euh Aero!
Do the same study wherein you have attacking style riding instead of steady on the flat and steady on the climb, more like a race with repeated accelerations and then slower sections as well.
How many times can they make the same video, I’ve seen a title similar to this like 10 times on this channel
I'm pretty light and like climbing, so I bought an aero bike! My thinking was that that way, I can follow my friends on the flat and I'll destory them a little less uphill :D
Also, I live in Flanders. We don't have hills longer than two minutes.
Practical testing is always good. It has uncovered many cases where things are more complex than they seem. Wider tires and lower pressures are an example. In this case, anyone who understood a well taught physics course knows that the areo bike is faster on varied terrain. Aero wins on flats, areo wins at speed (including descents). Lightweight only helps climbing, and the savings may be partly canceled by aero and flex (possibly) only giving a partial advantage. The difference of only 0.5 kg is also not a lot. In best bike split I added 4# (1.8kg) to my bike and it added less than 10 minutes to a 100 mile MTB race. I'd say it got it about right. Now if I could only lose 10kg, I'd be more areo and faster on climbs..
I have three reactions to this entertaining video:
1. I'm shocked Ollie said he'd pick a lightweight bike over an aero one;
2. I'm impressed that Ollie has improved his performance so markedly since getting dropped a couple of years ago; it's kind of inspiring.
3. The performance difference in this video between the lightweight bike and the aero bike is about 30 seconds in the course of an admittedly poorly-controlled 15-20 minute trial; that roughly amounts to a 3% difference, which is statistically insignificant and, for most riders, pretty trivial. My big takeaway here is that you should just ride the bike that makes you happy and not worry about it very much.
BTW, Alex has become one of my favorite presenters on this channel; he's competent, clear, matter-of-fact, cheerful, and unpretentious, all qualities I appreciate.
Get some 60-65mm rims on the aero bike and some 30mm on the light one. That ahold reflect the reality more.
I think a big part of the similar times is the aero-ness of today's lightweight bikes. Carbon tech just keeps getting better and a lightweight aero bike is evolving. Great times we live in!
I have
1 aero light 7.2kg de Rosa super king
2. Scott addict r3, 6.34kg with cl24 Dura Ace
3. Scott addict newer with some aero & aero wheels
I am less tired using the aero bikes, I plan to put aero wheels on the bike… adding Aero influences, & optimised tires makes a positive difference.
I would be like Ollie!
Ollis is a flipping stud now. Passing dudes left and right.
I like Ollie's smile at 10:25 when he passed Adam.
adam 😂
@@GCNuser123
mMy apologies to Alex. but I still like the way you smiled when you passed him.
Same event but total watts over the course when one drafts the other. My guess is that weight will come out less. A smart rider drafts when possible. You are right as this represents a TT
Having ridden several Gran Fondos, the timed sections tend to be on climbs. Riding at threshold for the uphill would simulate the timed sections of a GF.
I am a beginner and Zone 2 riding is daily business for me . that's why i love flat sections .
I have ridden lightweight bikes all the time. I think I will go for a aero bike this time. But seeing there are now lightweight with aero tubing frames available, makes it difficult for me to decide which one. 😂. I want something that's comfortable, climbs easy and is fast on longer rides. I'm used to the comfortable long and easy climb , rides.
I have picked as my allrounder an aero bike: S5!
👉 Heavier on climbs = better training
A far more interesting test would be to do the same test but running the same aero wheels. I can say from personal experience, that running really light wheels and then switching to Enve 4.5s on the same frame made a MASSIVE difference, the deep dish being much, much faster.
both bikes had the same wheels and tyres! Shimano DA and pirelli p-zeros
Same depth? I had to go back and look, because at the beginning I swear the lightweight bike was running shallower DT Swiss wheels.
For these tests you guys should weight before each run and make sure to weight the same by drinking water, because depending on each person, temp and effort, you can sweat a lot during these tests, and damage the results.
Ollie is like I’m not going that fast but passes those other dudes like their not even there😂
very usefull, thanks
another great video lads! actually my favourite ride seems to be some kind of Frankenstein-Bike: a pretty light Ridley Fenix SL with some more endurance orientated geometry. A convenient position is with one 0.5mm spacer. Bike is equipped with rimbrakes and 60mm carbon aero wheels. rideready at 7.1kg. light and aero :-)
It sounds fast 🚀🚀
@@gcntech right. You can't blame the bike;-)
I live in Devon so would always choose a lightweight climbing bike. Oh and I love riding up hills lol
What tire setup was used .love these kinds of comparison videos!
Didn't mention which bike was more comfortable!
y’all should log the data with wind speed indicators too for even more science
These guys have the most casual bromance ever.
Ollie is quality…✊
I test rode a 2014 Venge against a Tarmac and the biggest difference was the quality of the ride. The venge felt like a hard piece of wood yes it was stiff and aero but the tarmac was super comfy and light. I chose the tarmac. As I was more comfortable and on long rides that’s all that actually matters in the end.