Mario movie Mario lol. (No seriously, I play him in MUGEN, he’s absolutely a trap character {though mostly used for oki}) Edit: nvm he’s more of a rushdown who heavily uses traps tbh. The bombs being limited to the ground and their relatively small hitbox means they’re mostly used to set up Oki and thus long combos {they’re vital though, despite being bad on defence}
Another Trap character that I don't know much about but would like to get into is Beerus in DBFZ. And while your advice totally applies, he... has a DP.
I wanna do a blazblue vid sometime but I kinda need my metrics to be at the "good by default" point, since right now, itd basically be a month of me making no money from youtube. I love all the crazy unique mechanics and wish more series were along those grounds
@@DarumaFGC Yeah, blazblue's unique chara mechanics are why I got into FGs in the first place. Amane, Litchi, Venom, Susanoo, Jack-O Strive/XRD, GGAC Bridget, Nagoriyuki, ABA, Rachel, Asuka, Zappa, HOS, Izayoi, Nine... BB and GG are just so loaded with extremely creative gameplay designs. When I take breaks I can always check in 3 years later and Arcsys cooked something spicy and new up. Ultimately this is why i fell off SF6... fun game, i dont dislike it, but if I want to play a footsies focused game at that power level and pacing i'd rather play granblue vs.. even though the characters arent as interesting as bb/gg, they still are a lot more unique/varied than sf6.
One of my favorite trap characters is Error, from Duels of Fortune. They have access to a portal and a large fireball that can cover the ground and air to limit an opponent's options. They also have long reaching normals, the ability to push opponents around using a wind-style attack, and can even fly. Really cool video, love your content!
Thanks for the compliment! This kinda reminded me that while wizard has a few things that act similarly in Yomi hustle, they dont have a full on trap character in the game at the moment, Id like a lot more play with screenspace in something turn based, I think that would also improve the way people understand this sort of character in the more regular full motion fighting games we're used to
Id love to do content on samsho sometime, and stuff like last blade too. They get slept on way too hard. Im actually kind of of-the-mind that last blade might get a new game soonish, given how much energy snk is bringing to its properties lately
@@DarumaFGC I feel you, Man, there's nothing quite like SamSho. I almost feel like if the most recent game had come out a year later, the fanbase would be bigger. It HAS been fun to introduce it to new people, though. Fingers crossed SNK drop some good news on us ⚡
@@TheTDA i love SNK but i cant lie the UI being terrible, awful matchmaking and no rollback honestly made the new samsho feel like an early access title, i dont know what went on behind the scenes to cause that but i am really rooting for their future. Although im kinda bracing myself for a bad gut reaction from many people to the new fatal fury, since it literally just looks like kofxv-2. Fingers cross they beat the content recycling allegations and the game is everything i hope for 🫡
they didn't allowed testament to still be a trapper in strive, that would have been a nightmare haha. I just hope this archetype doesn't get extinct in the future because of devs thinking they are too annoying to play against, they are really cool in my opinion (even tho i hate fighting testament in +r xD). Great video as always!
Hey dead apostle noel is dlc, and we'll definitely see a lot of horrific netplay byakuyas in under-night 2. Im sure that if strive keeps going another season or two, we'll see some more interesting new characters from niche archetypes. There was actually a section planned for this about Bedman? Having a very trap-like game plan without actual traps they place, but it hit the cutting room floor for being too tangential with the video already being difficult to produce.
I love playing trap characters and test was the first I ever played, so I was supper excited when they announced test was coming to strive. And then they released his game play video, he retained nothing from the previous games. They might as well made him into a new character. I was so disappointed that I stopped playing the game.
Kan-Ra from Killer Instinct is my favorite example of this archetype, even if he does have some some grapler and zoner elements as well. He's is like a Rude Goldberg machine manifested as a fighting game character, watching pros like ItzTyme2Dul, Freeky Jason, LengaLenga or VenomBuster cook with him is a work of art. There's also Gargos with his minion summons, though he's nowhere near as dependent on having them constantly on-screen as Kan-Ra is with his stand pits and locust swarms.
@@ItzTymeToDul Hey, it's the Duulist himself! Right back at'cha, thank you for providing so many hype moments! Hope to see you work you magic in KI some more now that that huge 2023 patch has finally dropped.
My favorite are puppeteers. There's so many creepy cool ones like Zato-1, Enchantress, Lieselotte, Nier, and I'm hoping Project L gets Vex (my pfp) or Annie. I end up always going for the creepy duo of the game if there is one. I also love the hell out of Bedman? even if they're not a puppeteer. Sick ass character.
Ill be most likely cutting puppet characters into at least two archetypes, since some puppets are disjointed and some spawn on the player, and some attack alongside you while others need unique inputs, therell be a lot of research done for those vids by the time they get produced.
I absolutely love Trap Characters in platform fighters in particular. Never tried that archetype much in traditional fighters, but in platform fighters I find a lot of fun uses of the archetype. Dedede can do this janky ass mechanic where he can place stick a gordo onto a wall, and he can use it on the edge of the stage to turn Gordo from a tool used to bully the opponent into a trap mechanic. Placing it on the edge of the stage while the opponent is recovering is basically a win condition, and when it works, it's a win condition. And I say when it works, because despite having consistent setupst, the stupid idiot smash devs added literal rng onto whether gordo sticks onto walls, for no reason other than because smash bros is a terribly designed game. What a fun mechanic to have a carefully laid out plan that doesn't work 25% of the time for no reason. I'd say most of Dedede's gameplan revolves around bullying the opponent (like in your video about the bully archetype), but that mechanic makes him into a fun trap character with a very funny win condition. There's also Pac-Man, who has two different types of traps. And while non lethal, they force the opponent to jump lest they get mildly moved around. He has a fire hydrant that will launch two jets of water that push either Pac-Man or the opponent slightly, and either party can hit the hydrant for damage. Pac-man has a back-air that does just barely enough damage to get hydrant to almost launch, so he can control when he wants to launch it or if he wants to keep it for a minor nuisance/mobility tool. Since it is a stationary object that absorbs damage, it IS useful to bait a gorilla-brained opponent into attacking the stationary dummy because they see an object that they can inflict damage on, and think that it benefits them to remove it while I still have free control over my character. Hydrant is also notable for being able to change the trajectory of Pac-Man's projectiles. Such as a setup known as the "Apple Gun" where Pac-Man charges his bonus fruit to apple, places hydrant, whiffs a N-air for timing, and throws the apple. This throws the apple directly onto the hydrant's water, sending it hurtling at the speed of light against the opponent, who should have started to block the second they saw me N-air. Pac-Man also has a trampoline, which when the opponent walks into it, it forces them into a jump. So they either avoid it by jumping or they take the trampoline and are forced to jump. It's very nice for controlling the opponent's movement. And when combined with Hydrant's synergy with his Back-air that I mentioned earlier, you can create a trap for opponents waiting on ledge by placing hydrant, back-airing it, and putting down a trampoline. Going on your trampoline will knock the hydrant upwards into the sky, and if the opponent touches the trampoline, they are automatically launched into the flying hydrant's hitbox! It's another great ledge-trap. He can also turn trampoline into a red variant that can act as a trap in it's own way, as it deletes the opponent's recovery lest they fly into it, however after many hours on this character I have no idea how I would ever do this in a real match, because it takes literally forever to set upm and the opponent would need to be in a specific position for it to properly work as a trap. Pac-Man is interesting since the examples of these moves becoming more traditional "Traps" with outright damaging hitboxes only comes from how they synergize together with the rest of his kit. Yet, despite this, his gameplan still revolves around setting objects that directly remove options from the opponent. Despite what the Smash Bros. Community will tell you (which is absolutely filled with people who love to make garbage hot takes about characters that they do not play, even more so than the regular FGC), Pac-Man in practice plays more like a "Freestyle Trap Character" than he does a "Zoner", due to how much his gameplan relies around placing these objects for your nefarious purposes. IMO he's a much more dynamic and fun character than 99% of the playstyles in Smash Ultimate, since his kit is more made as a playground with a bunch of funny tools that operate on their own rules rather than some strict adherence to a gameplan. In spite of the selling point of the game being it's large roster, most of the rest of the cast is either vanilla basic rushdown and vanilla basic zoning, and as such it's very refreshing to have a character who has real diversity in how he can approach situations. He has a very fun skill ceiling, too, since the properties of his attacks just operate under simple rules, a lot of skill expression is seen with how you make those tools interact with one another. Edit: I do think that Snake and Duck Hunt are two examples of trap characters in Smash that are more traditional than either Dedede's incredibly limited trapping and Pac-Man's nontraditional trapping. Never got into Snake but I have a lot of friends who did. Seems very fun though.
Id probably agree that the smash 4 era was far and away the most experimental and interesting additions to the roster overall. Thats not something you said outright but chars like pac man, little mac, villager, duck hunt, etc. All did a lot to turn smash into a game where there was a lot of character fantasy going on, whereas in brawl and prior i think a lot of characters are really basic implementations of the character they represent. And then as you said ultimate really dried up the well with a lack of fun factor and weird comp-unfriendly mechanics and redesigns of the existing roster, like i think for example while Game & Watch is obviously fairly trash in melee, hes so much more boring in ultimate and now serves no purpose on the roster. Its far worse than being low tier to be a character no one wants to play. Im glad indies are trying to make platform fighters a thing but I think without pulling in more interesting licenses from gamings history, theyre not gonna hold a candle to smash bros and the magic of it as a concept, even if nintendo largely failed that concept and its excitement by including so many fire emblem chars and massively overrepresenting what is overall, a pretty insignificant gaming franchise.
You could dramatically increase the size of the list if you include moves that have a startup that's long enough that the character returns to neutral then automatically triggers an attack that is used almost exclusively to help with oki or pressure, or if the startup is staggered enough then maybe neutral. I would describe those sort of attacks as trap-type if not trap-adjacent attacks. Like Seth in Uni, or Rose in SFV, or even something like UMVC3's Hidden Missiles. But they're probably a slightly different type of attack than the one outlined here, though. Those attacks are incredibly common and I've heard the characters who rely primarily on those specific types of attacks described as "set play" characters.
Yeah, its a very slippery slope when you start widening the definition, since even akuma has had like delayed projectiles that work on oki, but i think its just a lot more useful for everyone involved if you subdivide setplay into all its different types, after all someone who absolutely adores millia in strive might absolutely hate xx testament, and my main goal when making definitions for archetypes is that someone whos into one character of an archetype, can ask who the character from that archetype is in an entirely different game, pick them up and enjoy them. Its why i dislike really stuffy terms people throw out like "anime shoto", when you know full well a ryu player isnt likely to hop into an anime game and fully enjoy playing Sol or Ragna. Their playstyles are wildly different.
Ah fuck yeah a new Archetype Archive. I do really like trappers whenever I find them. Testament is really fun even if they are a little too good. (Sidenote I think Testament is generally considered number 2 with number 1 being Zappa.) I didnt get all that into Centralfiction but Rachel was definitely a character I vibed with too. Aoko is my favorite Melty character and the orbs are kind of traps too, sometimes. Do really wish they were a more common archetype because they can be very creative. Completely unrelated to this video but considering you are into Chainsaw Man you would enjoy Dandadan if you havent read it yet. Made by a Fire Punch assistant.
Testament is moreso a technical #2 than a practical #2, in theory zappa is the best character on paper, but due to the random factor zappa has had pretty poor tournament results historically, actually kind of astoundingly poor results when you look at it in detail. I have read some dandadan actually, its definitely one of the best things currently in jump, very fun, captures a spirit teen me would have enjoyed a lot. But im reading a lot of older stuff lately, both as parts of side projects that might show up on the channel and for personal enjoyment too.
@@DarumaFGC I didn't know that actually. I do love the treachery of tier lists. The way what characters are considered good, what characters are actually played and what characters are actually successful seem to be almost be unrelated is interesting. I definitely see more second worst character in the game Bridgette while skimming through ACPR tournaments than I see Zappa and Dizzy. The best of the new stuff is really good. I like Jujutsu Kaisen, Chainsaw Man, Jigokuraku, Dandadan and Sakamoto Days more than Naruto and Bleach. Not more than OP, Jojo and HXH, but they are pretty damn great.
I do wish I could have talked a bit more about him here but its a lot of time to dedicate to one character in a video, it would have been a bunch of revising for me too since I havent touched it in years outside of some specific things for some videos.
If i were to guess, the Rachel-esque manual detonation type is much more likely than the Byakuya/Testament style "set-and-forget" automatic style of trap. While im sure there are examples of these in tag games, most tag games are already chaotic and have extremely strong knockdown pressure without the addition of automatic nets giving out free combos. For examples off the top of my head there arent many due to how broken they could be, but Beerus in fighterZ, and maybe MODOK/Dr Strange in mvc3 strenuously could be called trap characters, but work a bit differently and somewhat less potent than the ones in this video, to prevent them being too overwhelming in team compositions.
You could probably count kokonoe too, but rachel stood out more for the blazblue example in this video. Also maybe Answer in rev2 but i would need to think about that before signing off
I'm not sure what to call it, but I would love it if you covered whatever archetype Litchi Faye-Ling from BlazBlue, Viola from Soul Calibur, Kung Lao's Hat Trick variation in Mortal Kombat X, and Menat from Street Fighter all fall under. They all have a weapon that they can "set" on the screen and then play around it using various moves in their moveset.
Itll definitely be covered in future. Im kinda looking at most archetypes as part of a big umbrella under around 5 different points or so, shoto, rushdown, grappler, zoner and Setplay character. And while i plan on doing videos covering the first 4 (although they will be gutted and sub-archetypes that havent previously been given names will be defined) "setplay" is way too broad and ill defined for me to do a video on "the setplay character" since that includes mixup characters, zoners, trap characters, etc etc, theres a lot under that window. Since setplay in itself is more a category of move than its own archetype. So since this litchi style setplay is common, itll get a name and video surrounding it, im open to suggestions for it, leaning to something implying remote-control, since it tends to be about manually directing something youve already placed, though obviously, not always
I would likely say Bully, its funny since its a petite anime girl and my examples on the thumbnail are sagat and broly, but izanami cannot 100-0 you just with zoning within reason, her zoning tools are actually anti-zoning, trying to force the opponent to approach, and her ribcage is just the same thing as superarmor within that vid, its a way to interrupt your opponent and say "no" to things, I wanna say I also put Leo backturn stance in the bully video, its been a long time since then so my memory isn't perfect, but he also uses his charge character tools in his default stance to force close counter engagements, where he gets to choose to either be safe, or gamble on entering backturn, which is his wincon. So shes kinda similar to that.
I talk a lot about this in my video on what is an archetype, in my opinion you need to look at the character as a collection of designed moves with an end goal and decide what that end goal is. For jp, his trap is actually a zoning tool, rather than his zoning being a tool to set up traps, like Rachel in Blazblue. While there will never be a hard science to defining who is which archetype, my main argument in that video is that if you imagine a character doing every one of their moves at once, in neutral, after knockdown, as combo enders, etc, you can try paint a picture of what that character plays like and what their goals are. My reasoning behind all that is within the vid, but i hope it makes sense with my explanation here too.
That reminds me, what archetype would you say a character like Q or blitztank are? They play around the universal mechanics but i wouldnt call thrm fundamentalists
Kinda hard to say exactly, it feels lame to slap a name like "charger" on them or something, especially given that would confuse tons of people since its separate from charge characters, but theyre kinda defined by their really weak neutral skips and high health. Theres too many different neutral skips in fighting games for me to want to call that an archetype, but looking for that little window to sneak in an approach like that totally defines these guys. Although blitztank is somewhat happier to just happen to catch someone with his big ass head normals
@@DarumaFGC that last phrase encapaulates the gameplan of most Q players (unless youre one of those unga bunga monke Qs i seen) I often call Q and tank "fortress" Characters, poor mobility and general tools, massive hurtboxes, holding defenses, capitalising in openings Unlike big boys that have outstanding moves like Hulk or juggernaut I also put Big Band in this category and to some extent, Ballrog
discord.gg/VrenxjwfEC Its pretty quiet and not many have joined in relation to fighting games yet, its mostly my twitch audience, where i played a lot of bloons before focusing moreso on youtube, but its there nonetheless
Setplay is moreso a category of a style of technique. For example - the safejump, which i explained in this video, is a kind of setplay. Its a scenario where every factor at play is predefined, and youve done something in advance to purposefully "set that up" - hope that helps.
Currently working on my own version of F.A.N.G./A.K.I. Charge input projectile "mines" A "toxic" Rekka With TAUNT CANCELS Venomous command throw And, a surprise that may be... DISTURBING Writing cards is easier than MUGEN... XD
How do you define an archetype ? You never say it in the intro I wanna know your definition of an archetype since I dont think everything in your series can be called an arcetype as an archetype for me is a word that describes a characters gameplan like I wouldnt call a big body character an archtype since ultimately they still basically want the same thing as another archetyle but a little different but a trap character I would define as an archetype since they have a special gameplan that defines what they want in a match.
I have a video called "what is an archetype" that goes over how i define an archetype and why. In my definition i go over an idea called facilitation, where we look at ALL the facts that surround a character, how big is their range, how fast is their recovery, how often do they get knockdowns, where does their damage come from, to fish for an idea of what it is a character "does." Which most of the time is their win condition. I go over why i think this idea is needed, how i come up with the idea, and how to actually use it in the video.
I will do pureblooded mixup characters soon-ish, though expect mixup to be cut up into like 4 seperate subtypes or something, maybe 3/2, but theres so much going on with different mixup characters i can see why someone might love XXACR anji but then hate playing Rev2 Millia
Fingers crossed someone comes in and replaces testament and Ram as a trap character for strive in future! I was going to talk a bit about how Bedman? Has trap-like elements but it was way too tangential and the video was already a nightmare to produce, so it hit the cutting room floor
I know trap characters is used more liberally in Smash Bros series, but which characters do you think in that series best fit that type? I know Snake is the most famous example
Ill be real my knowledge of smash is pretty surface level and incomplete. Plus, the way archetypes work in smash is just totally different. Theres a lot of different considerations at play compared to a 2D game, what i can say is that with my limited knowledge and the definition im using in this video, the only thing immediately coming to mind is the way samus is played in melee, since her really slow moving missiles and whip wind up being a big deal for her odd style of zoning where the opponent is forced to maneouver around your options in really specific and limited ways, but theres still no actual "trap" involved. Though id like to do an ability archive on slow projectiles in general, i love them
I'm a big fan of Pac-Man's trapping, even though it's non-traditional. He two different objects he can place onstage, and while neither directly hurt you, they end up being a strong tool for controlling space and taking away options from the opponent. Even though neither can directly hurt you (though you can use setups that can turn hydrant into a trapping tool, and red trampoline is a trap you can set up), Pac-Man gameplans often rely more on those tools rather than on zoning tools. He plays more like a freestyle trap character than a "zoner". Snake is definitely the biggest example of a dedicated trapper
I think strive presents a very interesting playground where youre being tested a lot more on fundamentals and less so situational knowledge, in fact i think the only knowledge check i can think of in strive is happy chaoses positive bonus guard break loops and even then those are at the upper limit of human execution. And i think some of these gutted characters are super interesting, i love the modern reimaginings of testament and bedman for example, even if i think strive ramlethal is an out and out abomination and absurdly ill concieved. But i think strive all in all kinda recognises that it enforcing simplicity to be "beginner-friendly" was a flaw and i think the admittance of that is clear in there being a resource to manage on almost every single dlc character, and they cant make them unique and still competitively viable without putting some kind of artificial power limiting guage on their gameplan. It to me is such a tedious and boring way to design characters, and kinda makes me lose a desire to stay invested in the games future
@@DarumaFGC I like testament as their own character in strive, but they are such a different character compared to ACR test that I have a hard time calling it a good redesign. Bedman however I think is well redesigned, removing the unnecessary complexity of xrd bedman while staying true to their original conception, I could say the same for Johnny too. Also glad to see another ram hater lol, idk what the fuck they were thinking with ramlethal in strive I also dislike how many DLC characters just have an arbitrary resource like a bar or ammo, it just feels like artificially making a character difficult while not really accomplishing so. And they don't even have the balls to go all out of these resource characters, happy chaos is a good example of the resource management being basically non existent. Goldlewis and jack o is fine imo. And I won't stop being mad at how sin's resource doesn't work like in xrd
On this episode of "Setplay, or fucked up oki?"
another thing about trap characters is that their theme usually goes so fucking hard for no reason like Beat eat nest or bloodstained lineage
Bedman's Xrd theme, "Does the Sheep Count the Sheep," is another banger
Mario movie Mario lol. (No seriously, I play him in MUGEN, he’s absolutely a trap character {though mostly used for oki})
Edit: nvm he’s more of a rushdown who heavily uses traps tbh. The bombs being limited to the ground and their relatively small hitbox means they’re mostly used to set up Oki and thus long combos {they’re vital though, despite being bad on defence}
Another Trap character that I don't know much about but would like to get into is Beerus in DBFZ. And while your advice totally applies, he... has a DP.
Gotta say, Rachel's wind mechanic is also super cool and unique.
I wanna do a blazblue vid sometime but I kinda need my metrics to be at the "good by default" point, since right now, itd basically be a month of me making no money from youtube. I love all the crazy unique mechanics and wish more series were along those grounds
@@DarumaFGC Yeah, blazblue's unique chara mechanics are why I got into FGs in the first place. Amane, Litchi, Venom, Susanoo, Jack-O Strive/XRD, GGAC Bridget, Nagoriyuki, ABA, Rachel, Asuka, Zappa, HOS, Izayoi, Nine... BB and GG are just so loaded with extremely creative gameplay designs. When I take breaks I can always check in 3 years later and Arcsys cooked something spicy and new up.
Ultimately this is why i fell off SF6... fun game, i dont dislike it, but if I want to play a footsies focused game at that power level and pacing i'd rather play granblue vs.. even though the characters arent as interesting as bb/gg, they still are a lot more unique/varied than sf6.
One of my favorite trap characters is Error, from Duels of Fortune. They have access to a portal and a large fireball that can cover the ground and air to limit an opponent's options. They also have long reaching normals, the ability to push opponents around using a wind-style attack, and can even fly.
Really cool video, love your content!
Thanks for the compliment! This kinda reminded me that while wizard has a few things that act similarly in Yomi hustle, they dont have a full on trap character in the game at the moment, Id like a lot more play with screenspace in something turn based, I think that would also improve the way people understand this sort of character in the more regular full motion fighting games we're used to
Wu-Ruixiang is an amazing Trap character in Samurai Shodown. Her unassuming nature is definitely disarming, too, which adds to her appeal
Id love to do content on samsho sometime, and stuff like last blade too. They get slept on way too hard. Im actually kind of of-the-mind that last blade might get a new game soonish, given how much energy snk is bringing to its properties lately
The Chinese glasses girl??
I have not seen much of her...
@@Ramsey276one Yeah, Bro, give her a try! 🚀
@@DarumaFGC I feel you, Man, there's nothing quite like SamSho. I almost feel like if the most recent game had come out a year later, the fanbase would be bigger. It HAS been fun to introduce it to new people, though.
Fingers crossed SNK drop some good news on us ⚡
@@TheTDA i love SNK but i cant lie the UI being terrible, awful matchmaking and no rollback honestly made the new samsho feel like an early access title, i dont know what went on behind the scenes to cause that but i am really rooting for their future. Although im kinda bracing myself for a bad gut reaction from many people to the new fatal fury, since it literally just looks like kofxv-2. Fingers cross they beat the content recycling allegations and the game is everything i hope for 🫡
You should make a short about Mimics, like Eleven, Mokujin, Shujinko, etc. Would be a good way to break into YT shorts.
they didn't allowed testament to still be a trapper in strive, that would have been a nightmare haha. I just hope this archetype doesn't get extinct in the future because of devs thinking they are too annoying to play against, they are really cool in my opinion (even tho i hate fighting testament in +r xD).
Great video as always!
Hey dead apostle noel is dlc, and we'll definitely see a lot of horrific netplay byakuyas in under-night 2. Im sure that if strive keeps going another season or two, we'll see some more interesting new characters from niche archetypes. There was actually a section planned for this about Bedman? Having a very trap-like game plan without actual traps they place, but it hit the cutting room floor for being too tangential with the video already being difficult to produce.
I love playing trap characters and test was the first I ever played, so I was supper excited when they announced test was coming to strive. And then they released his game play video, he retained nothing from the previous games. They might as well made him into a new character.
I was so disappointed that I stopped playing the game.
Testament in X2 gave GTSD...
Q_Q
Kan-Ra from Killer Instinct is my favorite example of this archetype, even if he does have some some grapler and zoner elements as well. He's is like a Rude Goldberg machine manifested as a fighting game character, watching pros like ItzTyme2Dul, Freeky Jason, LengaLenga or VenomBuster cook with him is a work of art. There's also Gargos with his minion summons, though he's nowhere near as dependent on having them constantly on-screen as Kan-Ra is with his stand pits and locust swarms.
I was so disheartened by the KI announcement at evo merely being update and not full game, hopefully the guys are cooking something for us
😂 wow you stole my comment lol
Thank you kindly btw.
@@ItzTymeToDul Hey, it's the Duulist himself! Right back at'cha, thank you for providing so many hype moments! Hope to see you work you magic in KI some more now that that huge 2023 patch has finally dropped.
Stay tuned@@RosencrantzxGuildenstern
My favorite series to see being updated
We love to recieve love from any manatee enjoyer 🦾
My favorite are puppeteers. There's so many creepy cool ones like Zato-1, Enchantress, Lieselotte, Nier, and I'm hoping Project L gets Vex (my pfp) or Annie. I end up always going for the creepy duo of the game if there is one. I also love the hell out of Bedman? even if they're not a puppeteer. Sick ass character.
Nice to see someone cover trap chars tho. Goated.
Ill be most likely cutting puppet characters into at least two archetypes, since some puppets are disjointed and some spawn on the player, and some attack alongside you while others need unique inputs, therell be a lot of research done for those vids by the time they get produced.
Seems like anime fighters are for you then, since other fgs(3d fighters or street figher) rarely if ever has this archetype
I hope Project L is successful enough to have ALL PLAUSIBLE CHARACTERS!
Enchantress ? From injustice 2
Trap characters: *IT'S A TRAP!*
I very much enjoy your ridiculous profile pic
You triggered my Trap Card !
Look, I'm just gonna say, hitting Byakuya's traps after a rekka, absolutely makes my brain go brrrr
1. Named dragonlash
2. Dante pfp
3. Pro rekka propaganda
Dare i say this man enjoys pressing buttons?
HOW DID HE KNOW!?@@DarumaFGC
Also, absolutely loved your vid, and the song choices are 👌
@@dragonlash cheers for the kind words! More on the way!
All i know is i love cagliostros gameplay (granblue fantasy versus)
I absolutely love Trap Characters in platform fighters in particular. Never tried that archetype much in traditional fighters, but in platform fighters I find a lot of fun uses of the archetype.
Dedede can do this janky ass mechanic where he can place stick a gordo onto a wall, and he can use it on the edge of the stage to turn Gordo from a tool used to bully the opponent into a trap mechanic. Placing it on the edge of the stage while the opponent is recovering is basically a win condition, and when it works, it's a win condition. And I say when it works, because despite having consistent setupst, the stupid idiot smash devs added literal rng onto whether gordo sticks onto walls, for no reason other than because smash bros is a terribly designed game. What a fun mechanic to have a carefully laid out plan that doesn't work 25% of the time for no reason.
I'd say most of Dedede's gameplan revolves around bullying the opponent (like in your video about the bully archetype), but that mechanic makes him into a fun trap character with a very funny win condition.
There's also Pac-Man, who has two different types of traps. And while non lethal, they force the opponent to jump lest they get mildly moved around. He has a fire hydrant that will launch two jets of water that push either Pac-Man or the opponent slightly, and either party can hit the hydrant for damage. Pac-man has a back-air that does just barely enough damage to get hydrant to almost launch, so he can control when he wants to launch it or if he wants to keep it for a minor nuisance/mobility tool.
Since it is a stationary object that absorbs damage, it IS useful to bait a gorilla-brained opponent into attacking the stationary dummy because they see an object that they can inflict damage on, and think that it benefits them to remove it while I still have free control over my character.
Hydrant is also notable for being able to change the trajectory of Pac-Man's projectiles. Such as a setup known as the "Apple Gun" where Pac-Man charges his bonus fruit to apple, places hydrant, whiffs a N-air for timing, and throws the apple. This throws the apple directly onto the hydrant's water, sending it hurtling at the speed of light against the opponent, who should have started to block the second they saw me N-air.
Pac-Man also has a trampoline, which when the opponent walks into it, it forces them into a jump. So they either avoid it by jumping or they take the trampoline and are forced to jump. It's very nice for controlling the opponent's movement. And when combined with Hydrant's synergy with his Back-air that I mentioned earlier, you can create a trap for opponents waiting on ledge by placing hydrant, back-airing it, and putting down a trampoline. Going on your trampoline will knock the hydrant upwards into the sky, and if the opponent touches the trampoline, they are automatically launched into the flying hydrant's hitbox! It's another great ledge-trap.
He can also turn trampoline into a red variant that can act as a trap in it's own way, as it deletes the opponent's recovery lest they fly into it, however after many hours on this character I have no idea how I would ever do this in a real match, because it takes literally forever to set upm and the opponent would need to be in a specific position for it to properly work as a trap.
Pac-Man is interesting since the examples of these moves becoming more traditional "Traps" with outright damaging hitboxes only comes from how they synergize together with the rest of his kit. Yet, despite this, his gameplan still revolves around setting objects that directly remove options from the opponent.
Despite what the Smash Bros. Community will tell you (which is absolutely filled with people who love to make garbage hot takes about characters that they do not play, even more so than the regular FGC), Pac-Man in practice plays more like a "Freestyle Trap Character" than he does a "Zoner", due to how much his gameplan relies around placing these objects for your nefarious purposes.
IMO he's a much more dynamic and fun character than 99% of the playstyles in Smash Ultimate, since his kit is more made as a playground with a bunch of funny tools that operate on their own rules rather than some strict adherence to a gameplan. In spite of the selling point of the game being it's large roster, most of the rest of the cast is either vanilla basic rushdown and vanilla basic zoning, and as such it's very refreshing to have a character who has real diversity in how he can approach situations. He has a very fun skill ceiling, too, since the properties of his attacks just operate under simple rules, a lot of skill expression is seen with how you make those tools interact with one another.
Edit: I do think that Snake and Duck Hunt are two examples of trap characters in Smash that are more traditional than either Dedede's incredibly limited trapping and Pac-Man's nontraditional trapping. Never got into Snake but I have a lot of friends who did. Seems very fun though.
Id probably agree that the smash 4 era was far and away the most experimental and interesting additions to the roster overall. Thats not something you said outright but chars like pac man, little mac, villager, duck hunt, etc. All did a lot to turn smash into a game where there was a lot of character fantasy going on, whereas in brawl and prior i think a lot of characters are really basic implementations of the character they represent. And then as you said ultimate really dried up the well with a lack of fun factor and weird comp-unfriendly mechanics and redesigns of the existing roster, like i think for example while Game & Watch is obviously fairly trash in melee, hes so much more boring in ultimate and now serves no purpose on the roster. Its far worse than being low tier to be a character no one wants to play.
Im glad indies are trying to make platform fighters a thing but I think without pulling in more interesting licenses from gamings history, theyre not gonna hold a candle to smash bros and the magic of it as a concept, even if nintendo largely failed that concept and its excitement by including so many fire emblem chars and massively overrepresenting what is overall, a pretty insignificant gaming franchise.
The thumbnail wasn't loading in, so I was just sitting there pondering what you meant
have been waiting for this one 🔥
Hope it lived up to expectations!
You could dramatically increase the size of the list if you include moves that have a startup that's long enough that the character returns to neutral then automatically triggers an attack that is used almost exclusively to help with oki or pressure, or if the startup is staggered enough then maybe neutral. I would describe those sort of attacks as trap-type if not trap-adjacent attacks. Like Seth in Uni, or Rose in SFV, or even something like UMVC3's Hidden Missiles. But they're probably a slightly different type of attack than the one outlined here, though. Those attacks are incredibly common and I've heard the characters who rely primarily on those specific types of attacks described as "set play" characters.
Yeah, its a very slippery slope when you start widening the definition, since even akuma has had like delayed projectiles that work on oki, but i think its just a lot more useful for everyone involved if you subdivide setplay into all its different types, after all someone who absolutely adores millia in strive might absolutely hate xx testament, and my main goal when making definitions for archetypes is that someone whos into one character of an archetype, can ask who the character from that archetype is in an entirely different game, pick them up and enjoy them. Its why i dislike really stuffy terms people throw out like "anime shoto", when you know full well a ryu player isnt likely to hop into an anime game and fully enjoy playing Sol or Ragna. Their playstyles are wildly different.
Basically, armor through the minefield and crush the trapper!
This is my favorite archtype in fighting games. Great video.
Glad to hear you thought the coverage was good! I try to make sure people who actually play these archetypes agree with what I say.
Ah fuck yeah a new Archetype Archive. I do really like trappers whenever I find them. Testament is really fun even if they are a little too good. (Sidenote I think Testament is generally considered number 2 with number 1 being Zappa.) I didnt get all that into Centralfiction but Rachel was definitely a character I vibed with too. Aoko is my favorite Melty character and the orbs are kind of traps too, sometimes. Do really wish they were a more common archetype because they can be very creative.
Completely unrelated to this video but considering you are into Chainsaw Man you would enjoy Dandadan if you havent read it yet. Made by a Fire Punch assistant.
Testament is moreso a technical #2 than a practical #2, in theory zappa is the best character on paper, but due to the random factor zappa has had pretty poor tournament results historically, actually kind of astoundingly poor results when you look at it in detail.
I have read some dandadan actually, its definitely one of the best things currently in jump, very fun, captures a spirit teen me would have enjoyed a lot. But im reading a lot of older stuff lately, both as parts of side projects that might show up on the channel and for personal enjoyment too.
I want zappa in strive so bad 😭
@@terry.1428 strive zappa would undoubtedly just have the sword, it kinda chills me to the bone imagining a stripped back strive zappa
he would have everything except the sword@@DarumaFGC
@@DarumaFGC I didn't know that actually. I do love the treachery of tier lists. The way what characters are considered good, what characters are actually played and what characters are actually successful seem to be almost be unrelated is interesting. I definitely see more second worst character in the game Bridgette while skimming through ACPR tournaments than I see Zappa and Dizzy.
The best of the new stuff is really good. I like Jujutsu Kaisen, Chainsaw Man, Jigokuraku, Dandadan and Sakamoto Days more than Naruto and Bleach. Not more than OP, Jojo and HXH, but they are pretty damn great.
I think Bedman is the quintessential trap character of GG Xrd. Deja Vu is such a neat mechanic
I do wish I could have talked a bit more about him here but its a lot of time to dedicate to one character in a video, it would have been a bunch of revising for me too since I havent touched it in years outside of some specific things for some videos.
Watching this to get an glimpse on how 2xko will add in trap characters. League have decent amount of them that uses traps so I got curious
If i were to guess, the Rachel-esque manual detonation type is much more likely than the Byakuya/Testament style "set-and-forget" automatic style of trap. While im sure there are examples of these in tag games, most tag games are already chaotic and have extremely strong knockdown pressure without the addition of automatic nets giving out free combos. For examples off the top of my head there arent many due to how broken they could be, but Beerus in fighterZ, and maybe MODOK/Dr Strange in mvc3 strenuously could be called trap characters, but work a bit differently and somewhat less potent than the ones in this video, to prevent them being too overwhelming in team compositions.
I love trappers and counter characters.
My name’s Chun-Li and the answer’s yes! Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!
I like to see a video about stance change archetype
I will absolutely do stance characters sometime! Love those guys
@@DarumaFGC Litchi is sooooo fun and interesting
My favorite trap character was Gill in sfV
Naoto Shirogane, Caligostro, and Dorothy (Arcana Heart) are other good examples.
Nice video. I love this archetype.
You could probably count kokonoe too, but rachel stood out more for the blazblue example in this video. Also maybe Answer in rev2 but i would need to think about that before signing off
Naoto Instakill build
"MUDOON!"
XD
Uhuui! Another Archetype video 🥰
Happy to see the excitement!
I'm not sure what to call it, but I would love it if you covered whatever archetype Litchi Faye-Ling from BlazBlue, Viola from Soul Calibur, Kung Lao's Hat Trick variation in Mortal Kombat X, and Menat from Street Fighter all fall under. They all have a weapon that they can "set" on the screen and then play around it using various moves in their moveset.
Itll definitely be covered in future. Im kinda looking at most archetypes as part of a big umbrella under around 5 different points or so, shoto, rushdown, grappler, zoner and Setplay character. And while i plan on doing videos covering the first 4 (although they will be gutted and sub-archetypes that havent previously been given names will be defined) "setplay" is way too broad and ill defined for me to do a video on "the setplay character" since that includes mixup characters, zoners, trap characters, etc etc, theres a lot under that window. Since setplay in itself is more a category of move than its own archetype. So since this litchi style setplay is common, itll get a name and video surrounding it, im open to suggestions for it, leaning to something implying remote-control, since it tends to be about manually directing something youve already placed, though obviously, not always
Maybe drone character sounds good, i like that
PROP FIGHTER!
@@Ramsey276one This sounds cool
@@ggmaliki you just helped me with my Archetype/Specialty characters list! We all good here!
;)
:-P Happy Doggo
Good series!
Cheers bud! 🍻
Not sure which video fits for this question but since this features Rachel I want to see your thoughts on what Izanami’s archetype is
I would likely say Bully, its funny since its a petite anime girl and my examples on the thumbnail are sagat and broly, but izanami cannot 100-0 you just with zoning within reason, her zoning tools are actually anti-zoning, trying to force the opponent to approach, and her ribcage is just the same thing as superarmor within that vid, its a way to interrupt your opponent and say "no" to things, I wanna say I also put Leo backturn stance in the bully video, its been a long time since then so my memory isn't perfect, but he also uses his charge character tools in his default stance to force close counter engagements, where he gets to choose to either be safe, or gamble on entering backturn, which is his wincon. So shes kinda similar to that.
@@DarumaFGCwhat are your thoughts on Ino and Yuzu archetype?
Big Black has whooped my ass at undernight too 😂
Cant wait for uni2 to completely bring back a community to the game, gonna be lit.
Welcome to all newcomers!
And the warmest of welcomes it is!
It's pretty fuzzy how much a character needs to rely a tool before it is definitional for the character. Jp, Xrd Bedman, rocket raccoon?
I talk a lot about this in my video on what is an archetype, in my opinion you need to look at the character as a collection of designed moves with an end goal and decide what that end goal is. For jp, his trap is actually a zoning tool, rather than his zoning being a tool to set up traps, like Rachel in Blazblue. While there will never be a hard science to defining who is which archetype, my main argument in that video is that if you imagine a character doing every one of their moves at once, in neutral, after knockdown, as combo enders, etc, you can try paint a picture of what that character plays like and what their goals are. My reasoning behind all that is within the vid, but i hope it makes sense with my explanation here too.
That reminds me, what archetype would you say a character like Q or blitztank are? They play around the universal mechanics but i wouldnt call thrm fundamentalists
Kinda hard to say exactly, it feels lame to slap a name like "charger" on them or something, especially given that would confuse tons of people since its separate from charge characters, but theyre kinda defined by their really weak neutral skips and high health. Theres too many different neutral skips in fighting games for me to want to call that an archetype, but looking for that little window to sneak in an approach like that totally defines these guys. Although blitztank is somewhat happier to just happen to catch someone with his big ass head normals
@@DarumaFGC that last phrase encapaulates the gameplan of most Q players (unless youre one of those unga bunga monke Qs i seen)
I often call Q and tank "fortress" Characters, poor mobility and general tools, massive hurtboxes, holding defenses, capitalising in openings
Unlike big boys that have outstanding moves like Hulk or juggernaut
I also put Big Band in this category and to some extent, Ballrog
Daruma do you happen to have a discord server? I’m making a fighting game with a friend and I tend to break some archetypes
discord.gg/VrenxjwfEC
Its pretty quiet and not many have joined in relation to fighting games yet, its mostly my twitch audience, where i played a lot of bloons before focusing moreso on youtube, but its there nonetheless
Next Archetype Poison or something like Ninja ?
And could you Blend in the Names to the Games who are on Screen shortly?
We have one shot coming up soon, though its possible ill cover poison gimmicks in the near future.
Also, thanks for the idea about game names, ill try see if i can fit it in in future.
dope video
Cheers bro 🍻💯
Just checking: is the other term used Setplay?
It's what I'm using in my FGCCG to separate them from Stage Traps (I'm planning WILD expansions XD )
Setplay is moreso a category of a style of technique. For example - the safejump, which i explained in this video, is a kind of setplay. Its a scenario where every factor at play is predefined, and youve done something in advance to purposefully "set that up" - hope that helps.
Currently working on my own version of F.A.N.G./A.K.I.
Charge input projectile "mines"
A "toxic" Rekka With TAUNT CANCELS
Venomous command throw
And, a surprise that may be... DISTURBING
Writing cards is easier than MUGEN...
XD
@@DarumaFGCI saw some people using the term setplay, but that's making more sense.
@@Ramsey276one i like seeing new takes on existing gimmicks. I hope your poison character comes out cool and your card game is well recieved dude
@@DarumaFGC
Sure thing !
The first step, MAKE SURE IT WORKS
XD
How do you define an archetype ?
You never say it in the intro
I wanna know your definition of an archetype since I dont think everything in your series can be called an arcetype as an archetype for me is a word that describes a characters gameplan like I wouldnt call a big body character an archtype since ultimately they still basically want the same thing as another archetyle but a little different but a trap character I would define as an archetype since they have a special gameplan that defines what they want in a match.
I have a video called "what is an archetype" that goes over how i define an archetype and why. In my definition i go over an idea called facilitation, where we look at ALL the facts that surround a character, how big is their range, how fast is their recovery, how often do they get knockdowns, where does their damage come from, to fish for an idea of what it is a character "does." Which most of the time is their win condition. I go over why i think this idea is needed, how i come up with the idea, and how to actually use it in the video.
You should do mix-up characters next
I will do pureblooded mixup characters soon-ish, though expect mixup to be cut up into like 4 seperate subtypes or something, maybe 3/2, but theres so much going on with different mixup characters i can see why someone might love XXACR anji but then hate playing Rev2 Millia
Missing link Testament included
if you care
nevermind ml testament is just a zoner
@@T_Jesterr+ tho
Fingers crossed someone comes in and replaces testament and Ram as a trap character for strive in future! I was going to talk a bit about how Bedman? Has trap-like elements but it was way too tangential and the video was already a nightmare to produce, so it hit the cutting room floor
I know trap characters is used more liberally in Smash Bros series, but which characters do you think in that series best fit that type? I know Snake is the most famous example
Ill be real my knowledge of smash is pretty surface level and incomplete. Plus, the way archetypes work in smash is just totally different. Theres a lot of different considerations at play compared to a 2D game, what i can say is that with my limited knowledge and the definition im using in this video, the only thing immediately coming to mind is the way samus is played in melee, since her really slow moving missiles and whip wind up being a big deal for her odd style of zoning where the opponent is forced to maneouver around your options in really specific and limited ways, but theres still no actual "trap" involved. Though id like to do an ability archive on slow projectiles in general, i love them
I'm a big fan of Pac-Man's trapping, even though it's non-traditional. He two different objects he can place onstage, and while neither directly hurt you, they end up being a strong tool for controlling space and taking away options from the opponent. Even though neither can directly hurt you (though you can use setups that can turn hydrant into a trapping tool, and red trampoline is a trap you can set up), Pac-Man gameplans often rely more on those tools rather than on zoning tools. He plays more like a freestyle trap character than a "zoner".
Snake is definitely the biggest example of a dedicated trapper
Robin and Pac Man are trappers in ssb as well
amane is a good trap character
This video just makes me sad seeing how strive gutted so many characters
I think strive presents a very interesting playground where youre being tested a lot more on fundamentals and less so situational knowledge, in fact i think the only knowledge check i can think of in strive is happy chaoses positive bonus guard break loops and even then those are at the upper limit of human execution. And i think some of these gutted characters are super interesting, i love the modern reimaginings of testament and bedman for example, even if i think strive ramlethal is an out and out abomination and absurdly ill concieved. But i think strive all in all kinda recognises that it enforcing simplicity to be "beginner-friendly" was a flaw and i think the admittance of that is clear in there being a resource to manage on almost every single dlc character, and they cant make them unique and still competitively viable without putting some kind of artificial power limiting guage on their gameplan. It to me is such a tedious and boring way to design characters, and kinda makes me lose a desire to stay invested in the games future
@@DarumaFGC I like testament as their own character in strive, but they are such a different character compared to ACR test that I have a hard time calling it a good redesign. Bedman however I think is well redesigned, removing the unnecessary complexity of xrd bedman while staying true to their original conception, I could say the same for Johnny too.
Also glad to see another ram hater lol, idk what the fuck they were thinking with ramlethal in strive
I also dislike how many DLC characters just have an arbitrary resource like a bar or ammo, it just feels like artificially making a character difficult while not really accomplishing so. And they don't even have the balls to go all out of these resource characters, happy chaos is a good example of the resource management being basically non existent. Goldlewis and jack o is fine imo. And I won't stop being mad at how sin's resource doesn't work like in xrd
I seem to have misunderstood the title
I thought this was going to be a video about Bridgette.
kudos for avoiding the low hanging fruits Bridget and Poison.
is bridget a trap character too?
I wouldn't say so, yoyo loop is closer to millias disc than a traditional trap imo
bridgett
Oh... You mean THIS kind of trap character... I' m a little bit disapointed.
Down bad
@@DarumaFGC interesting chanel BTW.
Cheers bud! 🍻
This is an outdated joke, but…
“Bridget”