You can get more of Justin Kan's legit (and free) advice about entrepreneurship at his RUclips channel here: ruclips.net/channel/UCfRtwc6K_VU9N4OjNnU2P7g
Hey coffee, I wanted to ask you, would you consider it a scam to sell an info product for 50 bucks on personal finances aimed at teaching someone how to basically not be stupid with money and help them understand what are good and bad things to do with money so they can make good decisions on how to use their money?
@Steve You're the kinda guy who talks all the shit about shitty jobs and abuses people who work in em but wouldn't actually last in one. Nor would you actually last without the people who do work in em.
Nonsense, you're always the business in any business! Maybe you just don't realize it This is the blanket statements they said scammers use! He is now going everywhere promoting his podcast so you're the business yet again
@@painexotic3757 That is not at all what he meant theres a huge difference between taking a "entrepreneurship course" and a "video editing" course for example
@@howo357 You're arbitrarily putting a line on what classifies as "knowledge". And schools don't sell knowledge but accreditation. That is the only difference between something like a college/uni/trade vs an online course.
For Australian entrepreneurs, the larger universities have start-up hubs and programmes that connect new founders with venture capital, investors, mentors and other support networks. They even have, in some cases, dedicated office space so new founders can work without having to worry about paying bills. The best part is that most are open to the public at large, not just students and alumni. They may have a certificate or qualification that they’ll have you do (which is generally certified by the AQF), but they’re open and available. There’s literally no reason, at least in Australia, to pay exuberant scammer prices for what’s available for free to the public.
@@beerkegaard yeah definitely, just wanted to point out the misconception that if your company gets acquired for 1 billion, that’s the amount of money you have
@@alexjohn9627 probably significantly less than that - at least from the Twitch acquisition. By Series C, the founders are often diluted to well under 20%, then you are also splitting with your other co-founder.
this interview was great coffee, I am a CPA that works with start-ups (looking for an exit, etc) and he absolutely gets it. You have to build relationships first, economic benefit after (if any). In my experience, build a solid foundation of trust, and the business will follow almost guaranteed.
Honestly Coffeezilla, you've come a long way as an interviewer. Asking some very fire questions that are just so insightful and I've never seen being asked before!!
You know the person you talk to is intelligent when he wonders off topic for 5mn and when done just says "i didn't answer your question, lemme do that"
I know I'm not an entrepreneur and I dont try to be. I try to stay disciplined with whatever small amount of money I have.... And hopefully I can get a shop of my own when I have saved up enough. Starting a shop is risky, but i won't risk 100% of my saved up money. Just playin safe, entrepreneurialship is way too risky for me.
It's really amazing seeing Coffeezilla grow his channel to where it is today.. please keep doing what you do. The 'selling success' industry has blown up out of proportions and we need ppl like you to keep them in check! All the best!!!
"the best entrepreneurs are not that flashy, they’re not out there on social media posting pictures of their lamborghini” “a lot of them own a lamborghini but almost none of them are posting pictures of it saying they're gonna teach you how to be wealthy enough to buy that” YES YES YES!!!
lol, Great first question! And an awesome answer from an actual entrepreneur - who actually hustled (and is Not simply selling online courses to become an entrepreneur)
I kinda wish people used a different word other than hustle, hustling historically has had the connotation of scamming people. Maybe endeavored, toiled, or labored would work better?
I love his comment about people who take course- "You are getting farmed" I LOVE that . I'm going to start using that phrase. People will then ask "What do you mean?" If I simply tell them "You are getting scammed" they will probably just blow me off. If you take a course YOU are their business. Dang- good stuff
I finally got a chance to watch this! That last question is THE Entrepreneurship question of the times we are in these days. (Re: large incumbents "stealing" trending companies' concepts) Well done and thank you.
Sadly he already has. He rarely replies to people in the comments anymore which he used to do a ton of. He's turning into an entertainment RUclipsr and doing a ton of stuff he used to be against. I still like him though.
@@YaYousef5 Showerthought: Perhaps on a long enough timeline all RUclipsrs become Fake Gurus due to the YT algorithm pushing creators in a certain direction.
Dang....going big time. Nice little pivot and expanding your content from exposing scammers to showing the real deal like Justin. Puts things in perspective. It's starting to become clear....thumbnail with a dude leaning up against a Lambo=Scam....Dude chilling drinking a cup of water in his living room talking for free=Legit!
I love these interviews he's been doing recently with people in big tech that have had big success! Awesome to see the channel growing coffee! Excited to see what's next!
I can already tell you how they will spin you bringing on more and more really successful people... "They do not want you to know that is why they get so offensive now about attacking us"...
Thanks for doing this! I’ve always wondered why they still allow scammers to sell their courses to people through RUclips ads and why no one has exposed them. Glad I found this channel.
This has to be one of my favorite interviews, Coffee. Thanks for doing what you do man. I'm a big fan of Justin's and I also "interviewed" or "pitched", rather, at Y comb several times. The actual industry of entrepreneurship is based heavily on fundamentals, not "ideas" of success. Tai Lopez and Gary Vee are largely to blame for this recent rise of them in this new generation.
Found coffeezilla recently from the koncrete interview. Doing a great service exposing fake gurus. I think you doing more interviews like this with legit business people is the flipside and very valuable. Showing people both sides - what not to do & what to avoid (ie fake gurus, crappy overpriced courses), but also some wise advice from real entrepreneurs with real businesses.
Great to see you have Justin Kan on! Never thought you two would work together. It's good for people to hear from a real entrepreneur instead of a guru. As a founder in the tech space, Justin is well known and in general the landscape of gurus isnt as scammy, people are truly happy to help.
yeah thats true, that is something often forgotten when successful people are compared. most of them have parents with high iq encouraging them as they grew up, rich, went to the best schools etc.
Tech entrepreneurs are usually that way because they come from a math and scientific background, and people with these backgrounds are some of the humble people on earth because the side of effect of a high IQ is humbleness.
feel good to see you bring real entrepreneur on the show, this should be a regular thing now! you did it with him and the Angel investor and this is great to show people that real entrepreneur are not like fake gurus
I really appreciated this form of content! It doesn't have to be the primary focus but it would be really cool to see you get to pick the minds of people you think are successful
surround yourself with the 5 people you like to be , i have no friends, and i dont like to much people cuz i think they dont fit with my thoughts FeelsBadMad
Sometimes you need to just learn to see the person behind the thoughts. There's always something you can connect with. Like if you see someone wearing a hooded white robe try saying something racist even if you're black, you might just learn to love them.
What a wholesome, objective episode. I enjoyed it to the max. WP Mister Coffee! May you bring like-minded individuals in the future to talk about how real success in achieved.
I love that Coffeezilla is getting legitimate advice from legitimate entrepreneurs and content creators. It clearly shows to numb nuts (like billy gene) that he's not BS'ing people. Coffeezilla clearly cares about the reality of business and what makes businesses work, and how real gurus work, not just fake gurus. I like that I'm both entertained and learning something from these interviews while commuting or working from home.
Just keep in mind if you just make some clothing with decent designs and throw it up on a store it’s not going to do well. You’re going to need to do something that makes it stand out and differentiates it from the hundreds of thousands of other small brands
@@elijahgavin6706 ur honestly right, nowadays every teenager starts a "clothing" brand which in reality is just some shitty t shirt printing business which they advertise on instagram and tiktok
awesome interview. thanks for having him on and thanks justin for coming on. inspired me to apply "late" today to YC even though i didnt plan on it for my startup.
I think these grifters are evolving. Now they showing videos like Warren Buffet, iterate what they said in simple terms.Then someone who leaves a comment that praises them. They leave a message for them to use WhatsApp with their number for bitcoin investment.
@@AlexM-np1cx But it's the owner of the channel. He's the one leaving the reply.....oh, I get it. Yeah makes sense. Have bots praise them, he leaves a comment for bitcoin investment. other normal people see it and call in the number.
@@rasheemthebestfirstone3274 Not sure what you're talking about. I was saying just Google him first. I read something but forgot what it was. Anyway he's promoting his new podcast
What I really hate about RUclips right now is, that creators have to be super careful to not get their videos demonitized. Meanwhile RUclips runs add off scammers before half of the Videos I watch. Just the hypocrisy
ive practivally spent the entire day perusing youre channel, and by far this one has very much so been the most helpful as a creative (dance music) even though such a difference between what justin has done in his life with what i aspire to be and do sidenote: im now feeling a lot better about having burned my whole Saturday not working on my music, and finding this gem
You can get more of Justin Kan's legit (and free) advice about entrepreneurship at his RUclips channel here: ruclips.net/channel/UCfRtwc6K_VU9N4OjNnU2P7g
Coffee! Great work man! I think you should start your own coffee brand or sell a mug or something, i dunno, do you sell coffeebreak mugs? :D
Hey coffee, I wanted to ask you, would you consider it a scam to sell an info product for 50 bucks on personal finances aimed at teaching someone how to basically not be stupid with money and help them understand what are good and bad things to do with money so they can make good decisions on how to use their money?
How to DM you Coffeezilla?
Demmm... The bigboys just showed up... 😂
@@anasssaoud4175 try his Twitter or Insta, believe he said he checks those 👍
He’s also been talking for five minutes without insulting working class people
@Steve how does it make money?
@Steve lol you are funny
@Steve You're the kinda guy who talks all the shit about shitty jobs and abuses people who work in em but wouldn't actually last in one. Nor would you actually last without the people who do work in em.
How u gonna insult your customers lol 😆
wait until you get to minute 7:00
“If they are selling courses then You are the business.” Very wise words.
Nonsense, you're always the business in any business! Maybe you just don't realize it
This is the blanket statements they said scammers use!
He is now going everywhere promoting his podcast so you're the business yet again
@@NeoCodingGod no, he meant that. Courses are the new scam.
It's literally everywhere on the internet and its aim is to take advantage of those naive netizens..
regurgitating a sentence that's been repeated ever since the conception of capitalism suddenly makes you wise xD
@@GoddaryuTUBE "suddenly makes you wise" no, it doesn't make THEM wise, but the words are wise. It's good advice regardless of who said it.
"If they are selling courses, you are the business."🤯🤯🤯
Great quote
The only reason I don't like this quote is because it applies to pretty much all schooling: college, university, bootcamps, tradeschool, etc.
@@painexotic3757 That is not at all what he meant
theres a huge difference between taking a "entrepreneurship course"
and a "video editing" course for example
@@painexotic3757actual schools selling knowledge. Scam courses are selling success.
@@howo357 You're arbitrarily putting a line on what classifies as "knowledge". And schools don't sell knowledge but accreditation. That is the only difference between something like a college/uni/trade vs an online course.
This is pure quality. Thank you Coffee!
Very insightful, very educational. Just excellent.
Should you call him Coffee or Zilla?
@@AmikYoungDon I would say Coffee haha
whoa... Zilla stock PUMPED UP HIGH!
Respect the pump!
zilla is mooning ;)
We like the stock we like the stock
Big stonks
RESPECT THE PUMP
For Australian entrepreneurs, the larger universities have start-up hubs and programmes that connect new founders with venture capital, investors, mentors and other support networks. They even have, in some cases, dedicated office space so new founders can work without having to worry about paying bills. The best part is that most are open to the public at large, not just students and alumni. They may have a certificate or qualification that they’ll have you do (which is generally certified by the AQF), but they’re open and available.
There’s literally no reason, at least in Australia, to pay exuberant scammer prices for what’s available for free to the public.
That’s amazing. It’s like they’re actually helping you build a steady life to support yourself.
This dude is so well spoken and calm as fck.
He is a billionaire...
@@moebahri2873 he isn’t lol
@@alexjohn9627 he’s pretty close... likely close to 500mm
@@beerkegaard yeah definitely, just wanted to point out the misconception that if your company gets acquired for 1 billion, that’s the amount of money you have
@@alexjohn9627 probably significantly less than that - at least from the Twitch acquisition. By Series C, the founders are often diluted to well under 20%, then you are also splitting with your other co-founder.
Does Coffeezilla ever sleep? These videos keep getting better. Zilla hitting in out of the park like Mike Trout. Outstanding!
How can you sleep when your name is Coffee?
Coffee's moving up and the scammers are backing down!
1 dislike - Jay Mazini disliked this on his way to jail
Before they took his phone lol
😂
And the 2nd dislike was billy gene lol
Probably had to put out to get his hands on a smartphone just for this
Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not give away $45,000,000 dollars
Holy Moly! THE REAL DEAL 🔥 JUSTIN KAN!! And his RUclips channel is great too!
this interview was great coffee, I am a CPA that works with start-ups (looking for an exit, etc) and he absolutely gets it. You have to build relationships first, economic benefit after (if any). In my experience, build a solid foundation of trust, and the business will follow almost guaranteed.
This is really POWERFUL Coffeezilla, thanks for doing this
The value gotten from this interview is more than 10 fake guru courses combined.
Great interview!
Honestly Coffeezilla, you've come a long way as an interviewer. Asking some very fire questions that are just so insightful and I've never seen being asked before!!
You know the person you talk to is intelligent when he wonders off topic for 5mn and when done just says "i didn't answer your question, lemme do that"
Very few do that. Showing that they are paying attention to what the other person is saying and by doing that also respect them.
I really liked it.
Justin Kan is an incredible dude man 👌🏻 I’ve been following his work for a decently long time, very humble and honest
Thanks to him I can bully streamers playing GTA
@@noobian3314 😂
@@noobian3314 😂
Dude men are the best
Justin, is so genuine and really cares about people. It bleeds through during this interview and all his videos.
I know I'm not an entrepreneur and I dont try to be. I try to stay disciplined with whatever small amount of money I have.... And hopefully I can get a shop of my own when I have saved up enough. Starting a shop is risky, but i won't risk 100% of my saved up money. Just playin safe, entrepreneurialship is way too risky for me.
What kind of shop? Personal use? Or going to use it for some kind of business
@@AlexM-np1cx Cofee shop
Love you coffieezilla. You are squeezing the SCAMMERs balls. God bless.
This channel is getting better and better
It's really amazing seeing Coffeezilla grow his channel to where it is today.. please keep doing what you do. The 'selling success' industry has blown up out of proportions and we need ppl like you to keep them in check! All the best!!!
OMG thank you for bringing up clubhouse!! This is not talked about enough. People need exposed.
"the best entrepreneurs are not that flashy, they’re not out there on social media posting pictures of their lamborghini”
“a lot of them own a lamborghini but almost none of them are posting pictures of it saying they're gonna teach you how to be wealthy enough to buy that”
YES YES YES!!!
My boy Coffee be interviewing big rising stars right here.
_I'm proud of you, boy._
lol, Great first question! And an awesome answer from an actual entrepreneur - who actually hustled (and is Not simply selling online courses to become an entrepreneur)
I kinda wish people used a different word other than hustle, hustling historically has had the connotation of scamming people. Maybe endeavored, toiled, or labored would work better?
I love his comment about people who take course- "You are getting farmed" I LOVE that . I'm going to start using that phrase. People will then ask "What do you mean?" If I simply tell them "You are getting scammed" they will probably just blow me off.
If you take a course YOU are their business. Dang- good stuff
This channel is underrated! It should appear in public TV and explode in popularity! You should have a tv show as well I think!
lol people still watch tv? Everything is online nowadays.
Trust me it would have way less of a reach if it was on TV ,you gotta understand most youtubers have and international fanbase
Why would public TV want it? The people keeping cable alive are scummy advertisers whose messages are the antithesis of this channel
"If they're selling courses then you are the business."
Words of wisdom right there!!
I finally got a chance to watch this! That last question is THE Entrepreneurship question of the times we are in these days. (Re: large incumbents "stealing" trending companies' concepts) Well done and thank you.
Coffee: These are certain ways they try to scam you or sell a course.
A random ad pops up: here's a live example.
Top notch learning experience ngl😂
As I’m watching this interview, all the ads are from gurus selling $2000 courses 🤣🤣
ALWAYS! The algorithm targets his videos with hilarious guru ads
SAME! It won’t stop 😭
Hahaha..
Nah, not $2000 courses. $1997. 😏😉
@@BigMamaDaveX facts
Happy for you
You worked hard and now you are getting people like Justin to your channel
This is huge
Mark my words: CoffeeZilla is about to have his Joe Rogan moment. If you make it really big don't forget the fans. :)
Netflix or Hulu?
Sadly he already has. He rarely replies to people in the comments anymore which he used to do a ton of. He's turning into an entertainment RUclipsr and doing a ton of stuff he used to be against. I still like him though.
a.k.a. don't sell out to Spotify
@@YaYousef5 Showerthought: Perhaps on a long enough timeline all RUclipsrs become Fake Gurus due to the YT algorithm pushing creators in a certain direction.
@@YaYousef5 Him not replying to comments isn't being a sell out. Wtf.
Dang....going big time. Nice little pivot and expanding your content from exposing scammers to showing the real deal like Justin. Puts things in perspective. It's starting to become clear....thumbnail with a dude leaning up against a Lambo=Scam....Dude chilling drinking a cup of water in his living room talking for free=Legit!
I love these interviews he's been doing recently with people in big tech that have had big success! Awesome to see the channel growing coffee! Excited to see what's next!
Easily my favorite interview on this channel!! Great chemistry, wonderful questions, and of course, amazing information here! 👌🏾
I can already tell you how they will spin you bringing on more and more really successful people... "They do not want you to know that is why they get so offensive now about attacking us"...
This is one big step for Cofee and one giant step for Zilla
😂
you edit it but its still misspelled and misquoted lmao
Great interview. Listened to many Justin kan talks/interviews. He seems like a great guy.
I Followed Justin before I Followed you, This guys the real deal - what a collab!!!!!
I just love how big entrepreneurs are appreciating coffeezilla's work now!🧡🇱🇰
Thanks for doing this! I’ve always wondered why they still allow scammers to sell their courses to people through RUclips ads and why no one has exposed them. Glad I found this channel.
This has to be one of my favorite interviews, Coffee. Thanks for doing what you do man. I'm a big fan of Justin's and I also "interviewed" or "pitched", rather, at Y comb several times. The actual industry of entrepreneurship is based heavily on fundamentals, not "ideas" of success. Tai Lopez and Gary Vee are largely to blame for this recent rise of them in this new generation.
Found coffeezilla recently from the koncrete interview. Doing a great service exposing fake gurus.
I think you doing more interviews like this with legit business people is the flipside and very valuable.
Showing people both sides - what not to do & what to avoid (ie fake gurus, crappy overpriced courses), but also some wise advice from real entrepreneurs with real businesses.
"All the people that I know who are successful entrepreneurs, are not selling courses on entrepreneurship." - Justin Kan
"if they are selling courses, then you are the business"
This guy is amazing. Doing the Lord's work, exposing these scammers.
Great to see you have Justin Kan on! Never thought you two would work together. It's good for people to hear from a real entrepreneur instead of a guru. As a founder in the tech space, Justin is well known and in general the landscape of gurus isnt as scammy, people are truly happy to help.
Such a great quality, this is what real entrepreneurs do. Want-a-preneurs need to know this obviously. Thank you for the content 👌🏻
Asking great questions and getting great answers. Thanks, Stephen.
This dude has a normal background, stuff etc. Thats succes
yeah thats true, that is something often forgotten when successful people are compared. most of them have parents with high iq encouraging them as they grew up, rich, went to the best schools etc.
Tech entrepreneurs are usually that way because they come from a math and scientific background, and people with these backgrounds are some of the humble people on earth because the side of effect of a high IQ is humbleness.
Most high bless you more Coffee, I really loved this
feel good to see you bring real entrepreneur on the show, this should be a regular thing now! you did it with him and the Angel investor and this is great to show people that real entrepreneur are not like fake gurus
I really appreciated this form of content! It doesn't have to be the primary focus but it would be really cool to see you get to pick the minds of people you think are successful
Keep doing that kind of interviews! Great content! Thank you. 👍👍👍👍👍
This podcast with justin is one of the best content that you have coffee, keep it up steven
The beginning 60 seconds should just be the video - It literally is the point i bang on about daily. Excited to listen to this one
Dude!! You got to speak with Justin. Great job
Great interview! Justin is low key and down to earth, he seems so authentic.
Damn bro you growing fast see you at 1 million subs
Great interview. Justin Kan is the real deal. Thanks for doing this Coffeezilla.
surround yourself with the 5 people you like to be , i have no friends, and i dont like to much people cuz i think they dont fit with my thoughts FeelsBadMad
Hang in there
Sometimes you need to just learn to see the person behind the thoughts. There's always something you can connect with. Like if you see someone wearing a hooded white robe try saying something racist even if you're black, you might just learn to love them.
@@joseluismanzana1606 huh?
@@awwwkwaard3988 y'all be saying anything on the internet
@@gidd Clearly my comment wasn't for you but for Jose.
This was surprisingly great! I didn't expect this from Coffeezilla! Good job!!
Keep up the good work 🤟🏽
Wow, well done to Coffeezilla!
You've made it now, kid! This is big news!
Most valuable interview I have ever seen… Thanks a lot!
What a wholesome, objective episode. I enjoyed it to the max. WP Mister Coffee! May you bring like-minded individuals in the future to talk about how real success in achieved.
I love that Coffeezilla is getting legitimate advice from legitimate entrepreneurs and content creators. It clearly shows to numb nuts (like billy gene) that he's not BS'ing people. Coffeezilla clearly cares about the reality of business and what makes businesses work, and how real gurus work, not just fake gurus. I like that I'm both entertained and learning something from these interviews while commuting or working from home.
I’m trying to start up my own clothing company soon and this video is honestly helping a lot and I’m only half way through lol
Start now bro
Just keep in mind if you just make some clothing with decent designs and throw it up on a store it’s not going to do well. You’re going to need to do something that makes it stand out and differentiates it from the hundreds of thousands of other small brands
@@elijahgavin6706 ur honestly right, nowadays every teenager starts a "clothing" brand which in reality is just some shitty t shirt printing business which they advertise on instagram and tiktok
@@rottenapple6531 it’s good experience but the only way you can be successful doing that is if you already have a social media following
Your doing good work putting this information out there. I just discovered you Coffee! Love your content.
I love how calm Justin is. I aspire to be like that 📓
We really appreciate how Coffeezilla ask all the right questions and Justin gives incredible, selfless & genuine answers!!! 15:30
this collab is insane. If you don’t believe in the fraud after this, you’re hopeless.
A lot of value on this interview. SIfu keeps bringing great content.
best interview of this channel, real worth in the interview
More power to Coffee!
awesome interview. thanks for having him on and thanks justin for coming on. inspired me to apply "late" today to YC even though i didnt plan on it for my startup.
Thank you, for the really good questions Coffeezilla, this was valuable.
JustinTV. The great home of football streaming. Thank you
I think these grifters are evolving. Now they showing videos like Warren Buffet, iterate what they said in simple terms.Then someone who leaves a comment that praises them. They leave a message for them to use WhatsApp with their number for bitcoin investment.
Those are bots commenting
@@AlexM-np1cx But it's the owner of the channel. He's the one leaving the reply.....oh, I get it. Yeah makes sense. Have bots praise them, he leaves a comment for bitcoin investment. other normal people see it and call in the number.
@@jacobtaylor7506 bots are everywhere posing as content creators
@Hassan Bilal ah, got you. Did not know you could do that. Now makes sense why the messages are gone now.
@@jacobtaylor7506 that’s a super basic and obvious bot scheme, what do you mean? Anyone who falls for that is new to the internet
This is a legit good interview, underrated
Youre doing great work Steven!
My man! You’re making MAJOR WAVES , I love this for you bro.
This is a very great interview! No stupid questions here, love it👏
I love the quality of the questions and the answers
Coffeezilla army's growing! I've been following since he started and look at him now. Good job Steve!
Yes yes yes! This is amazing!
Scammers can try to disqualify you, but they can't disqualify this guy
Maybe you should first Google him before saying that
@@NeoCodingGod how can they disqualify him?
@@rasheemthebestfirstone3274 Not sure what you're talking about. I was saying just Google him first. I read something but forgot what it was. Anyway he's promoting his new podcast
@@NeoCodingGod you sound like one of his ex-employee
@@NeoCodingGod "I read something but forgot what it was". Wow mic drop moment.
Coffee, I always look forward to your videos.
What I really hate about RUclips right now is, that creators have to be super careful to not get their videos demonitized. Meanwhile RUclips runs add off scammers before half of the Videos I watch. Just the hypocrisy
So glad I found this channel I've learned more than I ever thought from a random algorithm pick.
Interview was inspiring! Great job!
Wow. I hope you're channel blows up. Well deserved 👏 and fair play.
This channel is getting so good
Love any show that exposes frauds who sell courses!
this was great! great job getting Justin Kan on the show
ive practivally spent the entire day perusing youre channel, and by far this one has very much so been the most helpful as a creative (dance music) even though such a difference between what justin has done in his life with what i aspire to be and do
sidenote: im now feeling a lot better about having burned my whole Saturday not working on my music, and finding this gem
thanks for exposing these frauds!