The power desk at Jackassville has about the same math skills as a fifth grader. It is so simple. Horse power divided in tonnage. Its also raining and you have a pretty steep grade. You can hear the wheel slip. CSX has always been cheap with the horsepower. Then when the train stalls they blame the engineer. Just pitiful.
I would argue that if you're paying $3 million for AC locomotives with traction control, you might as well take full advantage of their low speed performance! Why use $9M worth of equipment when $6M is enough?
Well, it takes 5 modern locomotive to replace a Big Boy stream. Steam gives consistency and constant torque. The torque is immediately available after moving across all speeds. "Torque remains constant throughout the speed range, and the horsepower increases and decreases in direct proportion to the speed."
@@oinc7320 too bad B&O didn't save any of the EM-1 that used to rule this hill, and layer the side of the tracks with cinders that my blueberry bushes love by that water tank
I guess there's many people sitting at home with extra time on their hand. I didn't expect the title to also be a hit, Dispatch told the engineer to give it the old college try when he was down to 2.5mph, probably 20-30min b4 getting to where I was able to catch it
He had to be on his toes, one from 2weeks ago did have some slippage on one of the dpu as it went by, camera may not have picked that one up, but I saw that one had Sparks every so often
Wow! The sound of the engines wheels on the tracks reminds me of the sound knife being sharpened with a steel. Incredibly to think these engines can run at notch 8, maxed out and keep working. I don’t see how an electric engine could ever replace these diesel electric locomotives for these long heavy trains. The infrastructure and amount of electricity that would be needed to power locomotives to move a long heavy train like this must be off the charts. Gotta give it to the engineers who design these machines as well as those who run them. 👏👏👏👏
4 x 3.3MW locomotives, 25kV overhead, 600A supply would cover it. Nothing unusual in that as most heavy freight 25kV systems are capable of more. Electricity network infrastructure, obviously costs but with 100+kV on that side the amps are nothing special there either.
@@retrozmachine1189 if they had enough powerplants to produce enough power, there isn't enough power available in region for that especially since they want to eliminate coal powered plants
@@davidmaust1415 Generation isn't really the problem either. It's only 10s of MW. Far greater levels are carried long distances in most countries already. The real reason is the cost of establishing electrical supply in remote areas that don't have it. Onboard diesel generation is the only practical way.
ok for those of you who don't work for the railroad Norfolk southern and csx investment in wabtech trip optimizer its basically auto piolt for trains designed to save fuel trip optimizer will automatically determine how fast and how much power the train needs on the road trains trip optimizer has to stay on unless it malfunctions.
THIS IS HOW CSX DESTROYS THEIR LOCOMOTIVES! THOSE TWO ES44ACS WILL NEED NEW PRIME MOVERS INSTALLED IN THEM. WHERE ARE THEIR HELPERS AT? CSX HAẞ NOT LEARNED THEIR LESSON ABOUT LOCOMOTIVE UTILIZATION! YOU NEED AT LEAST SIX LOCOMOTIVES ON A LONG ,HEAVY TRAIN LIKE THIS! IF ONE OF THEM UP FRONT QUITS, THEY WILL BE IN TROUBLE! YOU SHOULD ALWAYS PUT A SUFFIENT AMOUNT OF UNITS ON TRAINS THATS EXTREMELY HEAVY IN WET CONDITIONS LIKE THIS!, THIS ALSO EXPLAINS WHY YOU SEE A NUMBER OF LEASED LOCOMOTIVES ON CSX! BECAUSE, CSX MOTIVE Power IS DEFINITELY NOT MAINTAINED! HENCE THE INFLUX OF LOCOMOTIVES FROM OTHER RAILROADS!WHAT A SHAME, CSX!
Well I can tell you that most of this post is true but as an engineer I always take it out of Trip Optimizer when I know it’s going to be a tough pull up a hill due to the weather or how it’s pulling. Every train is different and how it rolls. Trip Optimizer is only as smart as we tell it. It thinks it’s always sunny on the RR. Lol
@@harley0232 My feelings exactly. It's incredible software. But the 'what if' scenarios sometime are beyond it's capability to efficiently make certain moves
It doesn't help that dispatch is 1000mi away in Jacksonville, FL, few probably have real life experience running the section of rails. Relying too much on AI and trying to get by with minimal power.
@@davidmaust1415 Dispatchers unfamiliar with actual running experience over a section of track is pretty much the norm and has been for decades. Trying to get by with minimal power has also been around for decades. Pretty much what you see in this video is just normal railroading
ruclips.net/video/m0uObpn_NQU/видео.htmlfeature=shared. This train struggled even more to make grade and jammed up the trains behind it. Took 3hrs to go 5miles
All 3 variations of the "early" CSX GEVOs represented on this train (and 2 of my personal favorites leading). The 840-949 GEVOs fall in a goldilocks zone in that they were made after GE forced all their customers to order high numberboards (which look dope) but before CSX started painting the terrible boxcar logo on the units #950+. These later units numbered #950 also have the slightly more angular edges to the nose and the dark numberboards with white text which IMO look worse than CSX's classic white boards with black text. The new CM44AC rebuilds also look nice back in YN3 rather than the boxcar logo (YN3b) but also have the sharper cab and black numberboards which make them just slighly less friendly looking to me than the 840-949 GEVOs. I'd buy the scaletrains HO model of these goldilocks CSX GEVOS but they've been out of stock for years and pop up on eBay marked up by hundreds of dollars since nobody else has modelled them.
I dont get it, when a train has to get somewhere especially a heavy coal train why dont they give it enough power to get up hiĺls like that? Just curious
This is not a UPS van train that runs on a critical schedule. It's just coal, so it probably doesn't really matter when it gets there. The lack of horsepower might have delayed the train at most a few hours. I would argue that the dispatcher provided - exactly - enough horsepower, including an allowance for bad weather and rain on the rail.
That's the part that's BS. Another train company who shall remain nameless does the same thing. They say, hey the train can make it with this power. But the people making those decisions don't live in the state and they don't see the hills or weather conditions. MAYBE if it was all flat like it is in Georgia or Florida or wherever. But not in the mountains, not in coal country where the stuff is mined.
This has been a good show. As I seemed to stare at the train, I tried to read all the numbers on those coal hopper cars. A few missed numbers are a bit better than all numbers that are missed.
@@davidmaust1415That is great! The scribblers did not scribble that side of the railcars with spray enamel paint yet. Thank you for typing to me. Happy Railroading!
They have weep holes in bottom, but maybe someone good with math could figure approx how many gallons of water would collect on a inch of rain on dimensions of coal car
A blind Man and his seeing eye dog can see that the train was severely underpowered.... It was very close to stalling out.... That's not normal speed for any track and those units were throbbing when they crawled past the camera position...
nice capture, the train barely made it, what was the main problem no sand or not enough horsepower. you might want to check your microphone, as it was hard to hear and understand what you were saying a lot of the time
Having worked for CSX for 35 years I can tell you those engines were not straining when they came by that camera. The brakes were even squealing so he must have made a slight brake application. Who knows signal he was approaching.
I can tell by your comment that you did not work in transportation. The squealing you heard was from the wheels on the traction motors squealing on the rail biting for traction. 4 motors and 200 loads. Yes they were struggling. The brake pistons were not out on the cars.
It was moving slightly better than one from 2 weeks ago that took over 45min to pass by and lead DPU was jumping up and trying to get enough traction while pouring out the sand
I think it averages 0.8 for 7+ mi, there are several curves that add to the assent to middle of Tunnel at over 800' elevation which is the highest elevation East of Keyser ridge. The original route that used inclined plane method would've been over 900' elevation
It can cost more in fuel if engines have to take 4x longer running wide open, and use extra sand. If it does stall which has happened some, then another crew from 25mi west has to be dispatched to help shove it across
@@davidmaust1415The laws of physics are at odds with your argument about fuel use. The opposite is true. The less horsepower used, the less fuel burned. In addition, reduced speed means less wind resistance, thereby further reducing fuel use.
Just as information, a GE ES44ACH uses about 220 gallons of fuel per hour while operating at full throttle (notch 8). This consumption rate is dependent on throttle setting regardless of train speed. So, in this case fuel economy for these locomotives is about as bad as it gets.
That GEVO 12 cyl prime mover sounds amazing in notch 8! She working!!!
The power desk at Jackassville has about the same math skills as a fifth grader. It is so simple. Horse power divided in tonnage. Its also raining and you have a pretty steep grade. You can hear the wheel slip. CSX has always been cheap with the horsepower. Then when the train stalls they blame the engineer. Just pitiful.
So it would be the same with 4 BNSF ES44C4 or 4 NS C44-9Ws? Same amount of HP, ha?
It is NOT that simple.
Not really. When you get below 10mph, it becomes about tractive effort. In this instance 4 DC’s would probably have already stalled.
I would argue that if you're paying $3 million for AC locomotives with traction control, you might as well take full advantage of their low speed performance! Why use $9M worth of equipment when $6M is enough?
Curious to know if One more locomotive added to the train would have made a big difference?
A skilled crew and a skilled Engineer equals a successful run! Wow!
It reminds me of a car I once had. A Ford escort 4 banger with an automatic. There was so little torque you had to turn off the ac to climb a hill. 😂
Same here chey chevette
My old Ramble, you had to turn off the vacuum windshield wipers.
Well, they would slow to barely having speed, during acceleration.
I had a Fiat 600 with the same under-power issue -- except there was no AC to shut off. Down-shifting was the only option.
1984-85 yep 1.5L carburator engine.
I had an 87 w a 5spd it was a lot better then the automatic
The beauty of AC locomotives. They keep right on working even under this kind of heavy load.
Well, it takes 5 modern locomotive to replace a Big Boy stream. Steam gives consistency and constant torque.
The torque is immediately available after moving across all speeds.
"Torque remains constant throughout the speed range, and the horsepower increases and decreases in direct proportion to the speed."
@@oinc7320 Sadly, CSX has an ongoing shortage of Big Boys... :)
@@oinc7320until the big boy hit wet rail, it won’t compare to these modern beasts
@@oinc7320 too bad B&O didn't save any of the EM-1 that used to rule this hill, and layer the side of the tracks with cinders that my blueberry bushes love by that water tank
Whoa!!! Over 5.6K views??? (at the time im watching this) That's awesome. I'm glad your channel is getting the attention it deserves
I guess there's many people sitting at home with extra time on their hand. I didn't expect the title to also be a hit, Dispatch told the engineer to give it the old college try when he was down to 2.5mph, probably 20-30min b4 getting to where I was able to catch it
@@YanksandBritsProductionsmy goodness!!! Guess so
@@YanksandBritsProductions it's up to 38k and climbing, the first video that I have had get over 2k
Wet rail less traction.
I didn't see any wheel slip, so the engineer knows what he's doing.
He had to be on his toes, one from 2weeks ago did have some slippage on one of the dpu as it went by, camera may not have picked that one up, but I saw that one had Sparks every so often
Wow! The sound of the engines wheels on the tracks reminds me of the sound knife being sharpened with a steel. Incredibly to think these engines can run at notch 8, maxed out and keep working. I don’t see how an electric engine could ever replace these diesel electric locomotives for these long heavy trains. The infrastructure and amount of electricity that would be needed to power locomotives to move a long heavy train like this must be off the charts.
Gotta give it to the engineers who design these machines as well as those who run them. 👏👏👏👏
Electrics will be OK - Virginian used electrics for years pulling coal in this same area.
4 x 3.3MW locomotives, 25kV overhead, 600A supply would cover it. Nothing unusual in that as most heavy freight 25kV systems are capable of more. Electricity network infrastructure, obviously costs but with 100+kV on that side the amps are nothing special there either.
Four locomotives 3-ish MW each. 1000 amps on the 1930 era german 15kv electrification. Nothing too special.
@@retrozmachine1189 if they had enough powerplants to produce enough power, there isn't enough power available in region for that especially since they want to eliminate coal powered plants
@@davidmaust1415 Generation isn't really the problem either. It's only 10s of MW. Far greater levels are carried long distances in most countries already. The real reason is the cost of establishing electrical supply in remote areas that don't have it. Onboard diesel generation is the only practical way.
I know I can......I know I can!!!!!
I they have been running 3x2 since, maybe Jacksonville finally learned it's lesson
The same person has tagged almost every car!
I even see Tubby on other types of train cars now.
Legend says it´s still pulling. Not yet at summit😂😅
Out of sand.
Front engine wasn't sanding, but the other 3 were pouring it on
ok for those of you who don't work for the railroad Norfolk southern and csx investment in wabtech trip optimizer its basically auto piolt for trains designed to save fuel trip optimizer will automatically determine how fast and how much power the train needs on the road trains trip optimizer has to stay on unless it malfunctions.
THIS IS HOW CSX DESTROYS THEIR LOCOMOTIVES! THOSE TWO ES44ACS WILL NEED NEW PRIME MOVERS INSTALLED IN THEM. WHERE ARE THEIR HELPERS AT? CSX HAẞ NOT LEARNED THEIR LESSON ABOUT LOCOMOTIVE UTILIZATION! YOU NEED AT LEAST SIX LOCOMOTIVES ON A LONG ,HEAVY TRAIN LIKE THIS! IF ONE OF THEM UP FRONT QUITS, THEY WILL BE IN TROUBLE! YOU SHOULD ALWAYS PUT A SUFFIENT AMOUNT OF UNITS ON TRAINS THATS EXTREMELY HEAVY IN WET CONDITIONS LIKE THIS!, THIS ALSO EXPLAINS WHY YOU SEE A NUMBER OF LEASED LOCOMOTIVES ON CSX! BECAUSE, CSX MOTIVE Power IS DEFINITELY NOT MAINTAINED! HENCE THE INFLUX OF LOCOMOTIVES FROM OTHER RAILROADS!WHAT A SHAME, CSX!
Well I can tell you that most of this post is true but as an engineer I always take it out of Trip Optimizer when I know it’s going to be a tough pull up a hill due to the weather or how it’s pulling. Every train is different and how it rolls. Trip Optimizer is only as smart as we tell it. It thinks it’s always sunny on the RR. Lol
@@harley0232 My feelings exactly. It's incredible software. But the 'what if' scenarios sometime are beyond it's capability to efficiently make certain moves
It doesn't help that dispatch is 1000mi away in Jacksonville, FL, few probably have real life experience running the section of rails. Relying too much on AI and trying to get by with minimal power.
@@davidmaust1415 Dispatchers unfamiliar with actual running experience over a section of track is pretty much the norm and has been for decades. Trying to get by with minimal power has also been around for decades. Pretty much what you see in this video is just normal railroading
Biggest coal train I ever seen .wow DPU’s working hard
Walked it right up.
ruclips.net/video/m0uObpn_NQU/видео.htmlfeature=shared. This train struggled even more to make grade and jammed up the trains behind it. Took 3hrs to go 5miles
All 3 variations of the "early" CSX GEVOs represented on this train (and 2 of my personal favorites leading). The 840-949 GEVOs fall in a goldilocks zone in that they were made after GE forced all their customers to order high numberboards (which look dope) but before CSX started painting the terrible boxcar logo on the units #950+. These later units numbered #950 also have the slightly more angular edges to the nose and the dark numberboards with white text which IMO look worse than CSX's classic white boards with black text. The new CM44AC rebuilds also look nice back in YN3 rather than the boxcar logo (YN3b) but also have the sharper cab and black numberboards which make them just slighly less friendly looking to me than the 840-949 GEVOs. I'd buy the scaletrains HO model of these goldilocks CSX GEVOS but they've been out of stock for years and pop up on eBay marked up by hundreds of dollars since nobody else has modelled them.
That's next level train autismo. I love it.
Lots of interesting details, I haven't noticed some of them, there has been some that the right number board is dimly lit, and need a new light bulb,
Holy wow! They all just look blue to me!
Love the dark numberboards. Chessie System mostly used dark ones. High numberboards go well with high headlights, which NS historically has used.
I Think I Can !!!! I think I can.......I think I can!
I dont get it, when a train has to get somewhere especially a heavy coal train why dont they give it enough power to get up hiĺls like that? Just curious
This is not a UPS van train that runs on a critical schedule. It's just coal, so it probably doesn't really matter when it gets there. The lack of horsepower might have delayed the train at most a few hours. I would argue that the dispatcher provided - exactly - enough horsepower, including an allowance for bad weather and rain on the rail.
That's the part that's BS. Another train company who shall remain nameless does the same thing. They say, hey the train can make it with this power. But the people making those decisions don't live in the state and they don't see the hills or weather conditions. MAYBE if it was all flat like it is in Georgia or Florida or wherever. But not in the mountains, not in coal country where the stuff is mined.
This has been a good show. As I seemed to stare at the train, I tried to read all the numbers on those coal hopper cars. A few missed numbers are a bit better than all numbers that are missed.
I can easily read the mfg date code on lower right side of the cars as they went by, phone camera doesn't pick it up as well as in person
@@davidmaust1415That is great! The scribblers did not scribble that side of the railcars with spray enamel paint yet. Thank you for typing to me. Happy Railroading!
Parrs Ridge
Named after one of the early surveyors that mapped out a good portion of central Maryland
I have to wonder how much extra weight the rain adds to the load?
They have weep holes in bottom, but maybe someone good with math could figure approx how many gallons of water would collect on a inch of rain on dimensions of coal car
THAT'S DOWN TO,,,, HO-BO SPEED.😁👍
ruclips.net/video/DafVgenXc64/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Year end video posted by @oldmainproductions lots of locomotives and train horns
One of the other local railfans that makes great content
ruclips.net/video/GyOzgdUFdKY/видео.htmlfeature=shared
ruclips.net/video/W9SN-oqoqPM/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Since the train did not stall, I would not call it underpowered. Coal trains do not have to be speed demons.
Oh you have no idea, the 2X2 configuration has stalled many times on this line in the past few months. This train was a near miss
A blind Man and his seeing eye dog can see that the train was severely underpowered.... It was very close to stalling out.... That's not normal speed for any track and those units were throbbing when they crawled past the camera position...
@@thedesertdwellerfromutah4354 Just as the company and crew intended.
Is this in Michigan?
@@KnightRyder-g5vI’m gonna guess Pennsylvania or the Carolinas or the virginias
nice capture, the train barely made it, what was the main problem no sand or not enough horsepower. you might want to check your microphone, as it was hard to hear and understand what you were saying a lot of the time
It did make grade almost 1hr later, rain on unberella does hinder sound with Samsung s10e
Is the driver paid by the mile or by the hour ?
I think they're either hourly or salary, whatever the union negotiated. He did what he could with cards given
Great video!
Thanks!
95% of those cars tagged by the same person?
It's a wonder how the Home Depot in the Curtis Bay area can keep paint spray cans in stock, it is rare to see a untagged coal car
I did catch a 3bay hopper coal train a month ago that was nice to see most of the cars untagged
Most coal travel around 15 to 20 mph on flat land. As long train gets up that hill doing 5 to 10 mph. That's right speed.
5-10 is acceptable and what they do when rails are dry, but this one was barely 2mph
Nice
Thanks
Having worked for CSX for 35 years I can tell you those engines were not straining when they came by that camera. The brakes were even squealing so he must have made a slight brake application. Who knows signal he was approaching.
I can tell by your comment that you did not work in transportation. The squealing you heard was from the wheels on the traction motors squealing on the rail biting for traction. 4 motors and 200 loads. Yes they were struggling. The brake pistons were not out on the cars.
The trains doing fairly well all things considered.
It was moving slightly better than one from 2 weeks ago that took over 45min to pass by and lead DPU was jumping up and trying to get enough traction while pouring out the sand
What highway is just over the train ?
I70 just East of New Market MD
I may be bad wrong but I think he's in dynamic
With AC traction, engineers have learned to use dynamic as a way of adding extra tractve effort, giving everything that the locomotives could muster
I don’t think it is dynamic brake, he’s not trying to stop. Notch 8 and sand keeping it alive
What is the grade percentage on Pars Ridge?
I think it averages 0.8 for 7+ mi, there are several curves that add to the assent to middle of Tunnel at over 800' elevation which is the highest elevation East of Keyser ridge. The original route that used inclined plane method would've been over 900' elevation
Thank you!@@davidmaust1415
Does CSX forget they’ve got steep grades or something? PSR at its finest
@@JamesPetrone would absolutely triple the hill, or quadruple the hill
They never took a loaded train UP Saluda grade. The loaded Belmont trains were southbound down the grade.
I'll buy the house on the top of the hill behind you
Carefully and it's cheaper that way.
It can cost more in fuel if engines have to take 4x longer running wide open, and use extra sand. If it does stall which has happened some, then another crew from 25mi west has to be dispatched to help shove it across
@@davidmaust1415The laws of physics are at odds with your argument about fuel use. The opposite is true. The less horsepower used, the less fuel burned. In addition, reduced speed means less wind resistance, thereby further reducing fuel use.
Just as information, a GE ES44ACH uses about 220 gallons of fuel per hour while operating at full throttle (notch 8). This consumption rate is dependent on throttle setting regardless of train speed. So, in this case fuel economy for these locomotives is about as bad as it gets.
My sympathy lies with whoever has to try and sleep in that house and any like it
You get used to it, sometimes I don't even hear when one went by
Instead of counting sheep just count cars
@@davidmaust1415
We have great ability to adapt, don't we?
Looks like standard operating procedure. Do more with less.
You can easily walk up to that train and hitch a ride
Or add your tag to the graffiti.
Hydro trains in the future.
Sounded like somebody mumbled through the whole video.
*While*
Talk about watching paint dry...
Just goes to show how trashy those GE 4-bangers really are.
Hmm...in the rain, half hr long vid to watch a train stall, foamer.
If people enjoy watching a slow coal train in the rain, I'll probably keep filming them when possible.
A couple of weeks before an even slower train went by that all but stalled and the lead DPU was bouncing up and down about 6" to try to get traction