We Towed w/ 4 Electric Trucks Over The Rocky Mountains! Here’s What Happened
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 мар 2024
- Episode 310: Kyle and Jordan discuss the outcome and results of our recent towing test. We took the Cybertruck, Ford F-150 Lightning, Silverado EV 4WT, and Rivian R1T from Denver to Grand Junction and back. All while towing equivalent trailers loaded with a Tesla Model 3.
Shoutout to our sponsors for more information find their links below:
- Fort Collins Kia: Visit focokia.com for full details. Disclaimer: *Delivery covers up to $1,000.
- Star Charge:
www.starcharge.com/charging/
- Kempower:
kempower.com/america/charging...
Find us on all of these places:
RUclips: / outofspecpodcast
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/0tKIQfK...
Amazon: music.amazon.com/podcasts/473...
For further inquiries please email podcast@outofspecstudios.com
#ev #towing #electricvehicle 
Авто/Мото
Few random thoughts.
1. I learn so much more watching Tyman make mistakes than watching Kyle be fully optimized.
2. Good on you for calling the race early for safety, it was the right call letting the weather move out of the way and not "racing" over the mountain.
3. Excellent work on the video! Drone shots, music, etc.
4. When switching from one driver to another, throwing a plaque on the screen with Driver, Vehicle, and Location would be a nice touch.
5. Silverado EV is an absolute beast; I want to see more.
Oh man I would have flipped out seeing this EV towing parade in person. Thx for the YT content!
Jason over at Engineering Explained recently posted a video which addressed CT towing and aerodynamics, which suggests the airflow is directing down over the back following the bed cover. The Rivian has aero on top of roof directing air flow down. Thus a taller towable, e.g. a camper or a box unit, is likely to impact range most on the CT then the RT, and least on the large Lightning and Silverado which just punch huge holes in the air. Thus towing a low and aero load of the Model 3 likely benefitted the CT most and Silverado least, which is amazing given the performance of the Silverado in this test.
All nonsense 😂. All 4 trucks had almost identical efficiency over the trip. It came down to where you stopped to charge, did you have to unhook, did you even know how to unhook, and how big your battery was.
For out of spec standards this video should be marked #shorts 😂
I find it funny the short summary video is 34 min.
My thoughts exactly! Get to the point!
Short compared to 5hrs lol 😂
@@ChrisSoignier oh, no that was not my point. I watched the movie length video of the whole race
Hey Guys, I watched the related video and it looks like Jordan wasn't in Tow/Haul mode for the Lightning during the trip. Tow/Haul is usually color-coded with an off-blue/white and Balanced is the Blue shown in this video. So this video is a good gauge of how the truck will do when the software isn't "optimized". I know the FordSync is not great but this also added to the incorrect range estimates.
The Ford built-in navigation software is pretty bad.
Luckily the Lightning supports Android Auto (and Apple Carplay), so I find Google Maps works really well and it shows charging stations.
I want to know how much energy each truck took for this trip and the cost to charge each truck?
Cost does vary depending on where you are buying the electricity from. But you can calculate the energy usage by watching the videos and seeing how much they charged. They said they averaged 1.3, so do the math
I love the recap, on your experiments. Gives me something to listen to, on my way into work
Great update 👍
As a Lightning owner who tows. Lighting does has software issues. I think it needed a Nav reset from the steering wheel.
I enjoyed the full length!
Lightning driver should have charged earlier when the truck wanted him to. You'll pull a higher Kwh rate up to around 182kwh if you charge at a higher % also I'm pretty sure if you put climate on it'll just pull more from the charger. I've seen over 180kwh when plugging in over 40%soc in the cold with heat on Max defrost.
Given the CT has an 800V battery pack, it would have been better to reserve the 350 kW EA chargers for it. It was seriously handicapped by the ancient 120 kW (and shared) V2 Superchargers.
Too bad thanks to shit tesla design, you can't even use the CCS adapter on the CT lol.
Nice one guys. Looking forward to some of these making it Downunder and also the RH drive Riddara RD6 which is looking like a good mid sized tow candidate.
Thank you Tyman! It’s important to see someone who doesn’t use on a daily basis try a ev towing test. Think most people would have done this. Thanks for the video.
Do we know the range when towing of these four trucks? Or final efficiency numbers?
How do you guys think the CT would have done if they hit a CCS charger using the EVject hack?
Could the Rivian have been at an "unfair" disadvantage by having the large aftermarket rack structure on the bed that adds weight and aerodynamic inefficiency with which the other vehicles did not have to contend? The weight may not have made a huge difference, but as observed in other EV towing tests, aerodynamics plays a huge role. Has that rack made a difference in the vehicle efficiency since you've owned it?
aero efficiency matters astoundingly little while towing because the trailer does not care about your aero.
plus if a roof rack makes this big of a noticeable difference in towing range, ev's are useless for towing and doing anything work related.
@@user-rm7kb3il6x 1) I don't think anyone would argue that for the use case of towing, an ICE truck isn't much much better than an EV with the current state of technology, 2) those racks on the R1T look like giant sails, they are not just average racks, 3) this would be the equivalent of running the Cybertruck with the tonneau cover open during the test, 4) clearly the Silverado would "win" regardless, but I think for prospective buyers, this comparison can be helpful in partly assessing the flexibility and utility of the different EV trucks for the occasional work/adventure duty and so testing apples to apples is more compelling.
@@kbstuff19
1. when it comes to range and speed of refueling, yes, ice is far supiror to ev's. actually towing the load? there are fewer examples of ev's designed to tow but even with ev's that arent deisgned to tow like the model x, tow very well to the point that its easy to say that ev trucks are likely better at TOWING the load to many ice trucks, but cant do it for lon distance, which is what makes them impractical for most towing applications.
2/3 its not the same. most of the aero efficiency the cybertruck gets is entirely due to the fact that with the cover up, it does not have any vortices being created in the bed.
4. i agree. while the silverado ev is clearly the winner for towing, that isnt the only way trucks are used so being able to see how the other trucks compare in the case that they need to tow to see how good it is compared to what is possible, is a great comparison. i just wish they added an ice powered pickup to give a bit of perspective on how close the silverado is to a traditional ice truck for towing distance.
Didn't the Rivian finish second regardless? And without 800v, It's not going to beat the Silverado regardless of that bed structure.
@@junehanzawa5165 agreed on the need for super fast charging for any vehicle without a mega sized battery to compete with the Silverado. I was curious as to the efficiency difference between the Ford and Rivian as the Lightning has been consistently praised as the more capable vehicle for "work" type duties of the two.
30:00 The Tesla navigation shows a NEGATIVE % on arrival to a destination if you don't have enought charge in your battery,
but this is fine because you may find a public L2 charger before you run out of juice and you know exactly how far you can drive.
And sometime you might be able to reach your destination because your reduced your speed, you may had wind in your back,
and also the battery buffer might let you drive a little bit more that expected. And Tesla constantly is readjusting the trip range.
Could you please list the total kw-hrs used for the 4 EV trucks on this race?
New product idea: a super aerodynamic battery trailer which would be a trailer whose only purpose is to be an additional battery daisy chained with your EV's battery to extend the range of your EV.
Ok, any more specific numbers other than “about 1.3mi/kwh”? Seems like an important point.
Why don't these trucks have front charging ports??? Insane.
because pull through chargers are what need to exist for towing with an ev and pull through's will take up less space if you can pull through and charge in the middle than having most of your truck sticking out the back because you're charging at the front. for the tesla semi, this is not an issue because when you're pulling a massive trailer, a couple feet does not make a significant difference but having the charger be in the middle is still better for ease of access.
All vehicles need front charging ports, not just trucks / SUVs for towing. See so many Model Y / X with tow-hitch mounted bike racks.
Rivian has
@@passionvoile1650 the new r2 and r3 are in the back now
Owning a new and not often seen car that has really only been in reviews is a real pain. I took delivery of a Range Rover Evoque Coupe in White with every option box except the smokers pack ticked on the day that dealers were allowed to register them. I drove 450 miles from west London to Central Scotland in it on a Saturday and I have never had so many dangerous drivers trying to box me in to photograph it. On the motorway at 70mph I had a Lamborghini driver come steaming up behind then pull over to overtake and as he came level signal me to open the driver’s side window and shouted across asking what in gods name car it was, he had to have one! Every service/rest stop I stopped at for a comfort stop I came back a hoard of people around the car wanting to look inside. I’m about to take delivery of one of the first Electric Mini Countryman’s in the UK on Saturday but this time from the local dealership so I don’t expect so much attention with this one!
Oneof those M3's had the aero wheels, not fair. HA HA
They need to start making trailers and campers with a spot for a battery. The battery could be rented for trips or used for home storage when not being towed. Lugging around a huge battery isn't practical if you don't need it that often.
There is always an excuse for Tesla. The Fact is not every Cybertruck Owner will be able to plan a perfect route.
Also, what was the total cost of all three for charging? Sure, Silverado with the large battery but how much does it cost to charge?
Ford is only using 131 kWh of 141 available, will opening up more battery for towing help?
Probably similar because the efficiency was pretty similar for all of them. So the costs should be the same
How does the silverado google maps work? Built in or comes from the phone?
Built in, the Silverado has Android Automotive Infotainment system.
@@Nebula1701 thanks
The navigation on my tesla always send us to those very bad v2 superchargers. I know 2 locations.
There seems to be some gremlins in the Lightning that you guys borrowed from Ford. I haven't seen the same issues that Jordan did and neither have other Lightning owners that I talk to. Add to that the issues on the race to Florida and the Race from Sea to Sea.
Rule of tumb is to have a full charge before taking a big hill to have the higher voltage in the battery.
they need 2 charging points, on opposite corners, for the trucks
12:11 No, there were actually people waiting at one of his stops. He was consuming 3 spots 🤭
Tyman is getting too much blame for the CT's poor performance. Very few people want to risk pulling in dead when towing. The CT can't charge on CCS like Ford or Rivian so options are limited. It doesn't deep charge well which is needed for towing, so it can't just stop for a quick top up at 50% like Jordan did or full charge like Kyle did. It also doesn't have the charge port at the front making it more likely to have to unhook than the Ford or Rivian. Put the average EV driver in these 4 trucks and the results would likely be the same. The CT would've come in last.
I think you’re pretty spot on. Sure the cybertruck could have been better optimized. But I wouldn’t say it was driven poorly. Just not as optimally as possible.
what a poor point. This wasn't some average driver towing test. Even if it was for fun it was a race and any decent ev driver should understand basic charging power.
@@GrillarGamingTheres a reason both the Ford and Rivian stopped at that exit as well. None of them had the range while towing to make it to the V3 comfortably. The difference is, they both had the option to use CCS while the CT was stuck with the 120kW. It's part of the reality of only having one charging option. It's easy to skip V2s on regular trips, but it's a different story when towing.
The guy just didn’t know what he was doing. What’s wrong with that? It happens. He litterally said he thought his CT was supposed to get 500 miles 🫤
I have to disagree. The Cybertruck should have been on par with the Lightning. Particularly the comment on CCS, there are a lot more Tesla chargers.
But there is no doubt that the Silverado blew everything else out of the water. The Silverado represents the minimum configuration needed for an EV truck to really do traditional truck stuff.
Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
This might be a bit unrealistic, but what if you did the same challenge again, but add the equivalent gas versions of the ford F-150 and the Chevy Silverado?
They definitely should have included one of these as a control
F-150 would have crushed it. 36 gallon fuel tank. 0 stops round trip.
Why you suggest Tesla should rip off old V2 Superchargers if it is better to add just V4 Superchargers close-by and leave V2 Superchargers just for Tesla users as long as they do work.
The power sharing of V2’s are their biggest problem
You did not mention vehicle costs in this video. Granted the Silverado is a charging beast, but at what cost? Since the battery pack tends to be the most expensive part of an EV, I suspect the "monster" battery in the Silverado would make it quite unaffordable for many buyers.
79k. less than the others
Let's be real here, none of these are "affordable" for the masses. This isn't a Silverado specific issue.
@@godofdun I think most of the Detroit auto makers diesel trucks are atleast 75 k if not more. I know a fully loaded HD chevy diesel is over 100k
@@Bfranklyn731Exactly, prices have gone crazy for everything. Or did you think I was making this only about EVs? lol
@@godofdun 👌
Luv your show- You really did the Rivian in Big time. 5 things that caused them to be 2nd. you need a do- over with Chevy & Dual motor max pack, road tires.
Studded tires
22 inch wheels
Rack on the back- sorry NO way that helps it. Prove us wrong --run a test
Using Quad instead of dual motor
Using Large pack instead of Max pack-
There's no way the Rivian wins, but IMO it wasn't close between Rivian and the others despite what they are saying. Rivian should have been a clear #2 had they all started at the same time and all arrived at the first charging stop at the same time. The race got off to a bad start allowing some vehicles to drive slower for the first leg while Rivian had to drive much faster to catch up which dramatically reduces range.
Ford's software should allow you to show navigation to all possible charging sites but color them RED, YELLOW, GREEN... ONES they think you CANNOT get to, Ones you MAYBE can get to, and ones they think you CANNOT make it to, so at least you get the distance.
RAM EV might be even better than GM's EV, based on battery size and possible charging,
Speculation because the Ram doesn't exist!
Another bashing Ford session! I'm just kidding. I think its a good idea to do recaps for these really long road trip videos. I hope we see more of them.
The race aspect was fun, but it did feel a bit unfair from a scientific perspective. For example, Rivian for some reason arrived way after the Lightning at the first charging stop. Why? There wasn't a real reason I could figure out.
The Silverado is a disaster. Here’s why:
I think the Silverado looks really great and has really nice features. Especially the HUD. It is probably better than all the other currently available EV trucks on the market but they really should ask Lucid for their motor technology to improve their efficiency.
JerryRigEverything managed to drive the Silverado for 460mls with one charge. That sounds great but their efficiency was only 2mls/kwh😳 That means that truck is dragging a 230kwh battery with it🤦🏻♂️ A full charge will cost about $100 (+/- $20) depending on the charging company. That’s about 19.7MPG. Its electric but it costs as much as the gasoline version to travel with it. That just doesn’t make sense from economic standpoint. Why pay so much more to purchase an EV when it cost the same as an ICE vehicle to fuel it?
Any manufacturer can put a huge battery on its car and break the range record but what’s the point when its done with such a significantly low efficiency?
2mls/kwh sounds like very low efficiency to me. 230kwh batteries weigh about 3,000LBS giving the Silverado a total weight of 8,600LBS😳
As a comparison: The Rivian goes 2.5mls/kwh which I think is also not really efficient but still much better than 2mls/kwh. The Model Y goes 3.4mls/kwh which sounds way more reasonable. Lucid Gravity is rated to go 4.3mls/kwh (440mls with a 102kwh battery; curb weight 5,500LBS). That means one travels the same distance while paying 56% less for fuel. That’s a saving of $2,500/year for an average driver who drives 20K mls/year. Chevrolet really needs look into a different motor/battery technology to fix that problem before mass manufacturing that vehicle. If they can find a solution and bring the efficiency up to 2.7mls/kwh or more, they will most likely make that vehicle the leader of its class as they intend to. They have the money to buy Lucid’s technology. Based on the available data, I believe the Silverado could easily reach 440mls with a 160kwh battery if it used the same motor technology Lucid Gravity is using. That would bring down the curb weight from 8600 to 7600 and bring up the efficiency from 2mls/kwh to 2.75mls/kwh.
Its a shame you guys didn’t list the data at the end to show which truck drove how many miles/kwh for the total trip to have a real comparison how their efficiency changed with the Model 3 in tow.
No Francie today?
Spring roll can't tow much so she doesn't get in on this one. 🤣
Do this same test with and Ice Silverado quad cab vs the 4wt Ev. With only a 24 gal tank and 9mpg I bet it would be close.
The ICE Silverado can refuel in five minutes.
The EV Silverado takes an hour to fast charge.
the ice would still be better. it can fuel faster and would likely have longer range. it wont tow as well as it wont have as much power or weight to handle the load, but for long distance, it will fare better especially when it comes to keeping the cabin warm in the cold because of all the excess heat produced by the engine, especially while towing.
I know Kyle's in love with the range of the silverado, but there's 3 huge factors with this truck:
1. Cost - GM won't be making a profit on these anytime soon with 200kw batteries, unless they raise the price to 100k. Its not sustainable, they have to eventually make a profit, so either the battery size drops in half or the price doubles.
2. Replacement cost - Tesla is #1 in the industry for cheapest after-warranty battery replacement costs. Around 7k-11k for a Model Y. The price of a 200kw Silverado battery replacement would make me soil myself. Remember, Chevrolet charges $27k for a Chevy VOLT tiny battery replacement.
3. Weight - almost 2,000 pounds heavier than a cybertruck!!!
This test just proves that the EV user experience is a long way off for the average customer. Why would anyone study what configuration the charging location is set up ? The CT driver simply trusted the Tesla software just as any other normal car user would.
Gawd!
You folk need to learn how to edit!
The actual trip video was 2 hours long, and then directed me to your podcast for the 'shorter' version @ 35 minutes!
How much frickin' time do you think your loyal viewers have to waste?
Geez!
WT being a contractor-only sellable vehicle is a GM Marketing construct (get max $$ from average consumer…..). If they opened WT4 for all customers, they would sell. Living in the north, I’m totally fine with the ‘contractor’ interior. Winter impervious!
can't wait till the CT gets the xtra battery pack to rematch!!
I bet they never actually offer the extended pack. Probably just a carrot out there to get more buyers and then they will say not enough interest so we are not going to offer it. Kind of like they done in the past on some other things. I really wanted a 500 mile CT, guess Im waiting for ram or if Chevy actually builds enough silverado's I would go that route.
That might be vaporware. It’s weird move by Tesla
The towing test you did with electric pickup trucks is not necessarily very accurate or applicable. I tow cars on trailers like the towing you did in the test. I also tow travel trailers. It is a fact that the shape and size of vehicle being towed has as much or more impact on towing range. Aerodynamics create resistance that is difficult to quantify when determining range of an EV. Your test intentionally used aerodynamic payloads to determine a best case scenario for towing with an EV truck. I have seen that the range one would get when towing a travel trailer would be 30% or more less than towing an aerodynamic car like a Tesla. Your test intenionally misrepresents the towing capabilities of EV trucks. It's disappointing that this publication is not interested in providing useful, objective and practical information.
What a big BS unprepared trip !!! I am surprised that, BEFORE the trip, each driver didn't run A Better Route Planner
with different scenarios, such as comparing driving speed effect on consumption, and analysing charging curve
to optimise charging time (better charging from 10% to 50% than 40% to 80%), amount of charging to reduce the
number of charging stops and selecting chargers with faster charging speed. I am very disappointed about this test.
Wow, TERRIBLE presentation! You two yammering for 34 minutes and NO TABLE or CHART SHOWING RESULTS! I don't need all the stories, just show the f'ng results!!!
Exactly! I thought it was awful in presentation, results and analysis…
I charged, you charged? Why not mention the truck? Make the trucks the subjects not you.
1) all the trucks have non working man truck beds. Need to be 8 foot.
2) contractors don't tow that far. They need a truck that won't dent, scratch, rust. #1 priority.
3) cost is huge. If you're going to put way too many batteries in so you can brag about range, no one who matters will actually buy the overpriced truck. BTW, you're either paying too much or Chevy is losing money.
3) real work men. Contractors. They care about ROI. Actually, the truck is just a tool to get your real tools to a job. There is not an actual ROI for a truck. There is only a least cost on investment. COI. The truck doesn't make a contractor money. It only costs him more or less. One truck will cost less to get the worker to the job.
What if the truck charges at home and costs less than $20 a charge, compared to $100+? Then there’s service costs for a gas or diesel. Yup, there’s a way to go yet, but the playing field is changing and the EV trucks are getting better, whereas ICE is running out of road to improve. I’d be surprised if the next generation F150 Lightning isn’t a big improvement, and a work duty 8 foot bed may well be an option. Need a 350 or more? Check out the specs on the Tesla semi. Doable and then some.
@@davidcottrell570 That's why the Cybertruck is the real winner for real working men who own a real business that needs a real truck. Cybertruck is where it's at. May not currently meet 100% of contractor needs yet, but it meets mine and most others.... Once the price gets past these over paying early adopters.
@@MH-Tesla Not sure a lot of contractors are going to be impressed by gee-whiz styling, stainless bodywork and ‘bulletproof’ windows, but you like it, which matters to you and yours. My favourite is the Rivian, but I’m not a contractor. I can see the GM being practical to a lot of people, but a revised Lightning could change the results, now they have Tesla charging.
@@davidcottrell570 Rivian is a great truck for a girl. Not a working man who doesn't want his truck dented, scratched and rusted.
You're basically describing that standard range (250 miles) Cybertruck that will go for $61,000. Not an 8 foot bed, but can be with the tailgate opened if needed.
Terrible planning by a “duh, I do not know” sounding CT driver. So bad, think it is planned. Then the “let’s make it fair everyone had to go to Starbucks” total crap. Especially when Kyle pays someone $100 to get to single 350W charger. Look, the Chevy which ZERO retail buyer can buy, would win. Tesla are morons for not getting prototype range extender to make it “fair” compared to Chevy non existent except for large fleets vehicle.
Chevy/GM gave any compensation for Kyle to use a non available to retail buyer model. Only large fleets apply. I went to Chevy stealership, used my company name, they said no. If they would have said yes, would have added $27,000 to the sticker price plus other “mandated” fees and “invisible whole body force field” (kidding on the force field).
Just for shits and giggles, why dont you have a gasoline or diesel vehicle doing the same run with you to show everyone the difference?