I think kingdom hearts is more close to being a conventional rpg where u level up than Zelda. And it has elements of exploration and adventure games too.
These just get better and better. Love it man. It's an artform what you do with the material and you're a natural at this. Well done brotha and thank you
I'm very intrigued by this entire conversation. I think it's important to consider time in this argument. Back in the 90s, the definition of RPG was so vague that one could consider a fighting game role-playing because you assume the role of a character. As time has progressed, RPGs have become more polarizing due to some gamers vehemently "not liking RPGs." Nowadays, there have been more features added to RPGs to help them stand apart so their audience can be more clearly defined. Looking through the lens of anyone in 1992: almost everything is an RPG. There just weren't enough variety of gameplay options yet to clearly build a wall between them and others. In modern times, Zelda just doesn't have enough defining qualities to be called an RPG. This is also why it's no longer listed on game boxes; they left that genre in the 90s.
When you said that you might upset us I legit thought you were gonna talk about how you didn’t like Zelda and turned out to like it in the end further supported by the title lol
14:54 That finale music from ALTTP gets me every time 🥹 takes me back to my tiny bedroom with the 9" tv on the dresser that i had to use a fork to turn on cuz the power switch was broken off.
I have to completely disagree with those that think Legend of Zelda games are "RPG", RPGs and even "Action RPGs" have stats based in some part on the categories of stats derived from and can be traced back to Dungeons & Dragons, and has character(s) that can be be leveled up with some kind of Experience Points by either killing monsters or doing certain tasks. LOZ is an action adventure game with some RPG-ish elements.
I had a friend in 2nd grade that called my Sega Genesis a Nintendo. He insisted that even a PlayStation was a Nintendo. I think you would get along with him well
Some people are mad that he brought out the RECEIPTS with his stance. Miyamoto himself said it. It said on the Japanese box 3Dアクションrpg (action rpg). To deny Zelda of any RPG status at all is silly, and often probably due to the fact that somebody doesn’t like it, and doesn’t want it grouped in with beloved FF’s or dragon quests.
@@colinDESU His recipes are wrong. Zelda boxes don't have a great track record of containing accurate information. The original Majora's Mask box says that it's a 4 player game and includes an illustration of 4 controllers. Miyamoto has said many times that Zelda is *not* an RPG and that he doesn't like them
@@colinDESU Go to Shigeru Miyamoto's wikipedia page and look at the last paragraph under Development philosophy. It's just before the "Impact" subheading. Wikipedia includes several references including a link to a September 14th 2003, Nintendo Official Magazine (UK) where Miyamoto says " I personally have a fundamental dislike of the RPG system" and tells why. I'll post some links, but they may not show up
Zelda was inspired by Rpgs and at the time the idea of what an rpg was was very flimsy. And so it was called one. But nowadays, now that it's very clear what elements an RPG actually contains Zelda is an action adventure title. Regardless of what you call it, it's still incredible.
Exactly how i feel about it couldn’t have said it better myself in my opinion Zelda is not a traditional RPG it has elements of the genre but it has always focused on exploration, puzzles, and combat not leveling up customization of your character or party members i feel as if it’s a action adventure game
Side note: When you said your cousin learned to read from dragon warrior it really hit home for me, I taught myself to read and write when I was 3 because of the famous speak and spell from E.T. Oh yes, there can be serious educational value in learning through games. It literally put me years ahead of my peers.
Good time to bring up Dragon Quest (Warrior). Today would have been film, television, & video game composer Koichi Sugiyama's birthday. Sugiyama-San worked on The 1st eleven Dragon Quest games (1986-2017).. and E.V.O.: Search for Eden (1992).
I would say it's an action adventure game, but in the end nobody can prevent you from identifying as Link while playing it. In that sense I guess it's an "RP-able-game. Do I make sense?
Zelda 2 for the NES, the best Zelda, is the closest to an rpg. The experience / leveling up of attack, life (defense), and magic (point usage) are definitely rpg features. It has magic use kind of like an rpg. It lacks the acquisition of better equipment though.
Its personal for everyone but to me, a rpg has to have some sort of active experience system. You need to be able to level up skills and see a tangible difference with that leveling. Zelda is an action adventure game for me because it has progression based advancement. It's more like Metroid where you get to a point in the game and get an item/ability to let you get to the next. It's not like links attack power gets any stronger, he just acquires different swords. So thats how I look at it, you need to have some sort of experience system where each kill means something, which is why its more action adventure, again like Metroid. If Zelda is a RPG, Metroid is too.
Zelda 2, the best Zelda, actually does have an experience / level building system. Your attack gets stronger, your life bar takes less damage, and your magic spells use less magic when casting as you level them up.
The Zelda games never met that criteria of an RPG for me. I acknowledge that it is considered an action RPG franchise of course, but RPG to me always meant turn based, levels, etc. There's nothing wrong with ARPGs, I love em, but I have two distinct categories in my head canon. Strategy RPGs are a whole different category, I love me some Final Fantasy Tactics, Front Mission, Vandal Hearts, etc. As far as Castlevania goes, I wouldn't consider any of them to fit the mold of RPG, though starting with SotN's direction they were definitely closer. I think it's fair to say platformer with RPG elements there.
Zelda's are overhead action adventure games that have role playing elements,crept for Zelda 2 is a side scrolling action adventure game with role playing elements. Great episode Tyler, oh yeah, I just learned that you're Grandfather was an incredible comic book artist, whom I followed as a youngster and that fact blew my mind. Big fan and of yours as well, keep on killing it bro, and thanks 😅
Your dad liked to put the game cartridges in plastic rental style cases and he modified the box artwork to fit in them. It’s hard to put them back in the cardboard boxes after taking them out.
Consider this: Zelda II is the one game in the series that almost everyone can agree is an RPG and is at the same time almost universally labeled the franchise's "black sheep".
But that’s also because its side scrolling, and yes I know links awakening and other Gameboy Zelda’s have sections like that but links adventure was just so much more different then every other game with or with out the leveling system
The creator of The Legend of Zelda referred to Link as Zelda in that article you show around the seven minute mark. Something to the effect of, "We changed the graphics. So we had to change the way Zelda swings his sword." Was he not Link in the OG Zelda game? Now my head is spinning.
Personally I don't care if the series of Zelda games are called RPG, action adventure or whatever. The series of Legend of Zelda games is still my favorite series of all time. I play them every chance I get. To be honest I think it's the reason I still buy only Nintendo systems. I know from watching videos that the other consoles have better graphics, but that's not why I enjoy playing games. I want the games to be fun, where I don't have to put up with real life for a little while. That's just me though.
It was not a RPG to me growing up. Everything has elements of something else but what is at the core. At its core, Zelda is an action adventure. I need to have some in depth character building for it to be an RPG. I feel like when you call Zelda an RPG, you are trying to get off on a technicality. I love this channel, even when you are wrong, lol. I look forward to your next video!
I love that NES Advantage controller. I remember my mom buying me that for like $45 if I remember correctly and this controller helped me beat my favorite game of all time, Blaster Master because of the slow motion option for the 5th stage boss, THE CRAB. LMAO
In Australia our main arcade chain back in the 90's used to be a place called Timezone, i remember when i was young me and my brothers would go to the "lock in" nights where youre locked in for a fee and all games were unlimited did u have those in usa?
80s kid here. I never played Legend of Zelda games as a kid until 'A Link To The Past' on SNES. My introduction to 'RPGs' was Ironsword: Wizards & Warriors II. The story, the music, the graphics.... it just checked all the boxes for my tiny lil' heart. Questing & platforming through caves, dungeons, waterfalls and chasms to find golden items for giant animal kings is the stuff that gets my gaming motor running. I'm diagnosed with ADHD, so faster-paced games that don't require long stretches of focus and "grinding" will keep me from being alienated. Clearly, somebody at Rare Coin-It thought the same thing when they made the W&W series for the NES. Put simply: Art -whether it's a video game or not- of ANY sort is without bounderies. It's best expressed when painted outside the lines. We use the term "RPG" so magazines and retailers can properly categorize it. We the consumers take the term that much further with our passion and dedication. Nothing more.
Zelda has no complex stat system to really play a role, but uses few improvements in the form of items and weapons. But that's true for 90% of video games. A Gta with the Missions for different people (like quests) and possibilities to choose what to do with consequences and better stats by doing side quests would have even more of an rpg than Zelda. And even games with very similar elements as zelda like MediEvil are called action adventure, cause there is no real chance to play a role without complex stats to make it Immersive and highly impressionable. Therefore, Zelda should actually be classified as an action adventure with real-time RPG elements.
Perhaps the real question is: IS there a specific name to categorize Zelda games under? I don't think so. Miyamoto is such a genius, inspired by so many things, that he was able to create a genre on its own with Zelda.
Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon
Jeez Tyler...didnt have a wasp nest to swat at today? couldnt find a puppy to kick on camera? Is Legend of Zelda an RPG? something something 10 ft pole...something something 3rd rail. LOL. I hope this goes super viral for ya Brother because the subject should bring out the feels and the trolls.
9:20 I would argue that the term was more nebulous back in the day. Since the Zelda clones shared a similar theme to games like Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, etc, they were lumped into the same genre, probably to help market the games.
Per Wiki: "The Legend of Zelda[a] is an action-adventure game franchise created by the Japanese game designers Shigeru Miyamoto and Takashi Tezuka...The gameplay incorporates action-adventure and elements of action RPG games." Other than "Zelda II: The Adventure of Link"; to my knowledge, all other games in the franchise are listed as "action adventure" titles on GameFAQS as well.
First of all, I LOVE your channel. Watching this video (and others you uploaded) I can tell the difference between the first and third world. I'm from Argentina and here things from the 80s only arrived in the early 90s. Here no one had an original console or cartridges due to their high cost, so the "Family Game" was very popular, a clone of the Japanese Famicom. We never knew an original game with a box and manual, so we had to grow up discovering the controls, maps and other aspects of the games (not to mention that most of them were in English or Japanese). On the other hand, franchises like Zelda or Metroid were not well known in these latitudes; We usually had "bootleg" cartridges like "75 games in 1", which did not include those titles. We met those franchises in later console generations. Lastly, Nintendo was always very expensive here, it was rare to see someone with a Game Boy, SNES or N64. Most had the 8-bit Family Game, then some Sega Genesis clone (for example, I had the "Super Senga"), and in the 3D generation, PlayStation more than N64, especially because of pirated games. I think we missed a lot of the game experience, but I'm not complaining, we made do with what we had and were happy.
Your dad is a great man! Watching your videos, I just have so much admiration for your father. Of course, your content is top notch as well! I just wanted to give you a shout out man and let you know that!
You didn't really acknowledge character based progression which is a key thing for RPGs. Heart containers are technically optional since people have done 3 heart runs, and if you farm the same enemies over and over again, Link never gets stronger whereas a character does in any other RPG. I think games like Crystalis, Secret of Mana, Kingdom Hearts, and Ys have really set what an action RPG is, and Zelda is not really like those, it stays mostly in the action adventure realm. But everyone agrees Zelda 2 is an action RPG
According to your definition crono cross one of the greatest RPGs of all time is not an rpg either. You don't gain experience you can't farm enemies to level up.
I think there are more for points of Zelda being an RPG most of the time than not. MOST of the entries at least. 1) You name your character at the beginning 2) You increase health and mana through playing and conquering dungeons 3) can acquire and upgrade and switch out weapons and shields, equipment like boots and armor 4) gaining new abilities and equipment and upgrading them 5) boss levels often require a certain level, abilities and/or equipment
Upgrading your health and mana aren't necessarily an RPG thing within the context of the game. You level those things up by collecting certain requirements, whereas in an RPG those are stats that are usually increased through levelling your character. Completing the dungeon for example is always the requirement. Though in an RPG you have many options to level yourself up. Whether it's killing enemies, completing a dungeon, finishing a quest or exploration.
I consider The Legend of Zelda an RPG. Also it’s nice to see this new video pop up from you today, Tyler. Me and many of your Patreons are always looking forward to the new content.
RPGs especially from the 80s 90s were table top games in video game form. Table top games were called RPGs. So the video game version is also an rpg. Zelda IS NOT an rpg. There's more to genre than the literal definition of the words. Every game is not an rpg
I think RPG has taken on a more specific meaning. When I think of RPG, I think of games of midlevel or ancient times that consist of deep character development, Games that utilize spells/magic/potions, games that have an in-depth leveling system/skill system that is much more than just beating a level/platform. These games also have a very rich and in-depth storyline. All of these elements make up an RPG. If a game has one or a couple of these elements, they aren't considered an RPG, but have one or more RPG elements.
If the term RPG is broad enough to include Zelda (or any game, as you mentioned), then why is it an important that we recognize Zelda as an RPG? There has to be *something* distinctive about an RPG from your perspective, otherwise you wouldn't bother laboring to defend Zelda as an RPG. Genres should be distinctive. The more broadly genre-terms are used, the less meaningful they become. Can we also call Zelda a shoot-em-up? You do shoot arrows after all. -- Sorry for the long comments. No disrespect. Love your videos.
My definition of an RPG is based on a misunderstanding I had as a kid. I thought it was Roll Playing Game, not Role Playing Game; so to me RPGs were games where everything's based on dice rolls. To me, Zelda's kind of it's own thing, I don't personally consider it an RPG; since there's no dice rolls going on behind the scenes determining your damage and whatnot. But I totally get the argument that it's an RPG.
Due to the lack of an expirience system in most zelda titles I call the series action adventure games. But I can see how some people disagree on that. Noone get hurt for disagreeing here. What I haven't seen before is someone that calls the Zelda series role playing games but SOTN not? This is some confusing stuff. And I remember when Larry Bundy Jr called the Atari Jaguar 64 bit and the Sega Dreamcast a 32bit machine. And the whole argument of Myamoto saying it counts as one, doesn't matter in the slightest. The Inventor of the gif said it's pronounced "Jif" to which I say gif stands for Graphics Interchange Format. Unless you change the legal pronouciation of the word graphics, it will be called gif.
I 100% agree with you on your take. Zelda games have rpg elements through story and NPCs and leveling up not just through heart containers, but in the original and link to the past you have rings and mail, plus sword upgrades. What happened was RUclipsrs came out with their own opinions on things and that became gospel.
If you had friends over and they asked "Do you have any fruit to snack on?" and you handed them a tomato they would just laugh. A tomato is scientifically a fruit but is culinarily used as a vegetable. Zelda is a tomato. I would be surprised in the same way some I asked what your favorite RPGs are and your first answer is Zelda.
Interesting video idea. I'd love to see more like analysis of gaming culture from our past compared to gaming culture today. It's interesting to remember how different we thought about all these games and genres.
I feel that as the industry has evolved, so have the genres and the way we classify games within them. Most games are going to have qualities that borrow from MULTIPLE genres making it nearly impossible to divide them up in a way everyone's going to agree on.
Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon
I think the only Zelda game that could even be considered an RPG is the second game since you actually level different stats in that game. For pretty much every entry that I can remember though, the games are Action Adventure. An RPG needs to have a levelling system that you can invest in to form the character or play style you want.
Yeah there's no fuckin numbers in Zelda. And there's no "chance to miss/chance to hit". Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon
My understanding is there are ARPGs like Zelda, JRPGs descended from Dragon Quest, CRPGs that descend from Ultima and Wizardry, and SRPGs like Fire Emblem or Ogre Battle.
@@MyRetroLifeTyler I was rewatching this episode and a question popped up. What did your dad think of Zelda since he wasn’t an RPG guy I would love to know! If so what was his favorite in the series. Also what’s your favorite 3D Zelda besides Ocarina of Time?
"RPG" comes from tabletop games with dice, stats, level ups, and so on. While we were playing Nintendo games, older gamers had Western RPGs on PCs, like Ultima, which is where JRPGs came from. So really what happened was a generation gap: gen X Americans had "real" RPGs on PCs, but millenials preferred consoles from Japanese makers, so we didn't learn about "real" RPGs until the Japanese decided we were ready for them in the mid 90s.
At the time, nobody really knew what game belonged to what genre, we just played them and enjoyed them. But nobody knew because video games were still too young as a medium.
I’m still not clear on WHY Zelda should be considered an RPG other than a vogue concept like “getting stronger” or that other people felt it is. Like there has to be more argument for Zelda being an RPG other than its fantasy and you can “upgrade” your character
Yeah there's no fuckin numbers in Zelda. And there's no "chance to miss/chance to hit". Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon
I agree with you. If you look at BOTW the more you fight enemies the stronger you get. I pretty sure there’s a hidden level system in it. Certainly bigger enemies become easier each time. OOT is similar as you grow more as you progress. It’s an interesting way to view a game series as Zelda. 😊👍
I think the definition of RPG has changed as games have grown in number and diversity. I think back in the day, having a game with a lot of words which you read to get a grasp of the story as a main aspect of the draw is what really gave it the RPG label. Over time the "RPG" titles really broke into different groups based on the gameplay more than the experience. If someone says to me "RPG", they are talking about a turn-based (maybe with some time elements sometimes) battle system where you select your moves from a list, with a specific battle mode and exploring mode. So Dragon Warrior is about as RPG as RPGs can get, but also basically every final fantasy game. Games like castlevania, metroid, and zelda games I would not consider RPGs, although there is a hint of it in them.
This is like Strategy games and Real Time Strategy, or RTS. Strategy games is turn based, it waits for you to make your moves then the next player makes their moves, on and on. RTS everything happens at the same time. Same here, a RPG turns are taken, and an Action RPG everything happens at once. To be an Action RPG it needs a leveling system of some sort, and I guess getting better gear can be considered leveling up. I've always called games that are real time but have a leveling system as Action RPG.
In a way, Legend of Zelda is an RPG, yet It wasn't exactly as traditional as Final Fantasy in terms of gameplay and progress, It has the elements of adventure and the story talking place on a medieval setting. If It wasn't for Legend of Zelda, what would have been of the Darksiders game series and many other games.
@@pokekiller787x yeah, true but at the time, It was the most common atmosphere an RPG and thier respective clones (Final Fantasy or Zelda clones). I don't remember of there was a futuristic RPG on the 80's, the only ones that I remember talking place on a futuristic Sci -Fi or maybe Steampunk setting were Chrono Trigger and Shadowrun. But if you happen to know one from the 80s I would like to know, I'm helping on a game Review channel and another suggestion of a game to review would be great.
@cpl.barbarusc4814 It's very true that the setting is extremely common in RPGs. There is an RPG called Lagrange Point for the Famicom, but if you don't speak Japanese, it requires an English patch to play. That wasn't the 80s, though. It was in 91.
@@pokekiller787x Lagrange Point huh? I'm a sucker of japanese Sci-Fi so I could give this a go, and hopefully with patch or at least on an emulator, just to take a looksy.
This reminds me of conversations about punk and its subgenre. You get some people gatekeeping rhe ahit about it, and defining it in narrow terms, some allowing for a lot of wiggle room, and of course, people who really don't give a shit and just enjoy it.
Did you own Wind Waker, Four Swords Adventures and Twilight Princess? They also made a collector’s edition for GameCube with all the original Zelda titles.
I disagree respectfully. If Zelda is an RPG then the term is watered down. And yes they were wrong back IMO. Role Playing is called that because of D&D. You are playing a role and developing your character in a fashion similar to D&D. The defining features of a tabletop RPG are stats, party members, turn based combat and custom characters. Zelda has none of this, except Zelda 2 which has stats. Zelda doesn't play like D&D. Maybe back then they thought, well its close enough, but games have broadened their genres so much that to call Zelda an RPG you need to call Metroid an RPG, or God of War, Batman Arkham series, I can accept variations in a genre if 1 or 2 mechanics aren't there . Example not every RPG needs custom characters, but I would say everyone needs stats. Saying Zelda is an RPG because you earn more health and abilities, well that's Metroid and Castlevania SOTN as well. They aren't RPGs because the abilities you are getting aren't choices. That is the ROLE in Role Playing. Making your character custom. Unless you always sequence break, you will always get the same items in Zelda. You need the Arrows, you need the bombs. You aren't choosing to be an Archer or a Bomber, with advantages or disadvantages to each, you are just progressing through the game. In Mega Man you acquire new abilities and health packs etc, but its not an RPG. I agree with there being different genres of RPGs but I don't think Zelda is an Action RPG. Dark Souls is an Action RPG, because you create your own character and focus on specific builds to fit the role you want. Zelda 2 is the only Zelda game that fits the action RPG genre.
Hey Tyler I don't know if you remember me the guy living in Japan LOL. But the bottom of the box says ACTION RPG. Just a quick correction cause I read Japanese LOL. But regardless I always considered Zelda as an Action adventure type of game. So sorry Tyler LOL. Congrats on your success I knew you would make it and keep on the good work I love the videos :).
The Legend of Zelda is not a RPG It's a JRPG and that's a funny joke to tell everyone who still thinks The Legend of Zelda is not a JRPG. I love that Shigeru Miyamoto confirms both sides. Cool video. ^_^
The problem is what makes a game an RPG? After all Borderlands fits pretty much every criteria to be a role playing game with its quests, side-quests, NPCs, shops to buy and sell loot, upgrades, stats etc. Yet people would no doubt just class Borderlands as a loot shooter.
characte customization is the only thing that makes an rpg. otherwise you are not role playing, you are assuming a predetermined role in a predetermined story
@@BlastinRope So your trying to say Witcher 3 isnt an RPG? Chrono Trigger? Being able to have a custom character or not has nothing to do with the classification of RPG. You are playing the role of Geralt for example.
@@BlastinRope What level of character customisation would you say counts for a RPG? After all if that is the only bar then Red Dead Redemption would count as a role playing game.
I have always considered Zelda an RPG. You get the chance to expand your characters stats through exploration and equipment. Not all stats are required but there is still a grind if you want max load. Just because there aren't stats involved to me doesn't make it inherently not an RPG. As long as the game gives you the choice to buff yourself or just get through it at bare minimum meets my requirements of an RPG type game. I remember debating this with friends in the 90's, some of them thought an RPG had to be turned based with numbers but I thought all of that was semantics when the real RPG aesthetic was get through the game while increasing your characters power to the point where you feel you are ready to complete the mission as long as the point A and B allowed.
I started off i believe on thr calico vision and than the nes. Im 37 so i always was drawn to games. My mom bought me every and any rpg i wanted because my brother would hate then cause of all the reading. I loved them
When I was kid i always viewed RPGs as games where you selected commands in a menu and watch your characters fight, like Final Fantasy/Mario RPG. Games where you control your character in real time to fight I always viewed as "Adventure" games. Even so, I don't have any problems calling Zelda an RPG, and I think it's 100% fair to call Zelda an Action/Adventure RPG. Zelda and Final Fantasy are both similar in that characters grow both in the storytelling and through acquiring stronger items, weapons, and magic throughout their adventure. The main difference for me is that in Final Fantasy a character also gets stronger as their levels/EXP points increase, whereas in Zelda, Link only gets stronger proportionate to the players gaming skills/ gaming experience.
Monster Hunter is an action RPG with no leveling up at all. Just upgrades…which all Zelda games have to different degrees. Especially modern Zelda now. TOTK even has a “party” that fights with you, and abilities you can have them use with you. You can upgrade them, your clothes, and even upgrade your weapons via fuse, hearts and stamina. Its an action adventure RPG or just an action RPG.
What Tyler doesn't explain to you is even with his promo code is that you're still paying for basically the crap as Apple Jacks or whatever and it's not even that much better health wise. It's almost $10 a box without his Promo Code and you find these cereals in Walmart
This is kind of a never ending debate. Back then, Nintendo Power explained that Zelda is action-adventure, or maybe action-RPG, but it’s not exactly traditional RPG’s, which usually have more text, and experience points, etc. I think there is a meaningful difference, regardless the terminology.
Phantasy Star IV is my favorite traditional JRPG. Xp points, a changing group of characters, tons of text, space travel etc. You save a whole solar system! Then I play Zelda: Ocarina and it’s really just one solitary character, watching the rain in the graveyard
I used to consider it an RPG before I knew much about the genre. Aside from Zelda 2, I think it's on the borderline of the action adventure and action RPG genres.
I have always thought of the Zelda games as RPGs, because that's what we called them back in the day. So often these days do I see modern gamers or whomever try to dictate some new take on whatever thing we've all known for decades that they are now trying to force everyone to think of otherwise, and they somehow think they know better, when they just don't. I'm not a fan of their rewriting of or revisionist history at all. And, yup, SotN is an action platformer; it's definitely not an RPG. Just as shoot 'em up or "shump" does not mean any old game where you shoot things either. It almost always means scrolling shooters where you fly something around the screen while blasting away at things, like classic Gradius, R-Type, Super Aleste, U.N. Quadron, etc. Smash TV and Xeno Crisis (welcome to the recently released SNES version), for example, are not shmups. Those are something else, like twin stick shooters or Robotron clones. And run 'n' gun games like Contra, Gunstar Heroes and Cuphead are not shmups; they're run 'n' gun games. House of the Dead and Time Crisis are not shmups as the Wikipedia "shoot 'em up" page might have you believe; they're arcade-style [light]gun games. It's also kinda like how Apple's marketing team brainwashed everyone into saying x amount "thin", so everyone knows just how thin their devices are, when the phrase is correctly said as x amount thick (regardless of how amazingly thin it is). And it's not "addicting"; it's addictive: This game is so dang addictive that I just can't put it down. And so on. Okay. My rant is over. But, you get me. Just don't let "teh Internet" dictate the new "facts" to you and you should be good. :D
Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon
I think that the series was established as a acton rpg when Zelda 2 came out, and the rest of the games sense then have included side quest's that are optional to play through, like in traditional rpg's.
I'd argue that most Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest games also aren't RPGs, since usually you're following a pretty set story with set characters, not role playing. I think we call these games RPGs because they have mechanics that function similar to tabletop RPG mechanics. So I think "Adventure" describe Zelda, Final Fantasy, etc better than RPG ever could
It’s an action adventure. But I only like WINDWAKER or TEARS of the kingdom, neither of those really have rpg elements as far as leveling up things like that
12:48 Well, yes, it has heart containers and item upgrades that grow your character. But so does Metroid (tanks instead of hearts), and nobody calls that an RPG, then or now. And Metal Gear too, you grow your max health and rank and get better weapons and items to take on stronger enemies. Also, not thought of as an RPG series. Even if you are Playing the Role of a character in both of those Games. I think the real disconnect is that the term RPG wasn't well defined early on. And over the years it's gotten more and more strictly defined. Especially since so many modern games include "RPG Elements" in them, which usually means that there is some sort of experience points/leveling system. So we now expect that an RPG has to have some sort of experience points/leveling system in it. And Zelda does not, other than Zelda II. But speaking of Zelda II, the series does however usually have towns and people to talk to and gather information about the current dilemma, and big open worlds and dungeons to explore and a long story in a fantasy setting. Which are all further staples of the genre. So imho, with those things in addition to how the character progression happens (even if it's not experience points based), that puts it more firmly in the RPG genre.
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I think kingdom hearts is more close to being a conventional rpg where u level up than Zelda. And it has elements of exploration and adventure games too.
Zelda 2 for the NES, the best Zelda, is probably the closest to an rpg.
Hey
What was the music that you chose as background in this video at 5:14
Pac-Man is an action adventure survival horror game.
Not wrong!
LOL
Terminalmontage may convince me of that
I mean yeah, technically
Ghosts are scary
Zelda is just Zelda. Does not matter what type of game it is. It is our childhood and will always be one of our favs.
Snes Zelda Past remains one of the finest accomplishments of our time. The game is exceptionally crafted
That’s my least favorite Zelda game, along with adventure of link
These just get better and better. Love it man. It's an artform what you do with the material and you're a natural at this. Well done brotha and thank you
Thanks a ton! Appreciate it
I'm very intrigued by this entire conversation. I think it's important to consider time in this argument. Back in the 90s, the definition of RPG was so vague that one could consider a fighting game role-playing because you assume the role of a character. As time has progressed, RPGs have become more polarizing due to some gamers vehemently "not liking RPGs." Nowadays, there have been more features added to RPGs to help them stand apart so their audience can be more clearly defined. Looking through the lens of anyone in 1992: almost everything is an RPG. There just weren't enough variety of gameplay options yet to clearly build a wall between them and others. In modern times, Zelda just doesn't have enough defining qualities to be called an RPG. This is also why it's no longer listed on game boxes; they left that genre in the 90s.
Most games have features taken from RPGs and that doesn't make it an RPG, it has RPG elements
You can call it an RPG or not but we can all agree the The Legend of Zelda series is a great series
But it’s not rpg except for new breath series
@@Shinobi15 No, it's RPG. There are subtypes of RPGs.
@@WeSRT4 nope
@@Shinobi15 its an RPG moron.
@@Shinobi15 and mario kart isn't a racing game /s
When you said that you might upset us I legit thought you were gonna talk about how you didn’t like Zelda and turned out to like it in the end further supported by the title lol
Its called click baiting.
14:54 That finale music from ALTTP gets me every time 🥹 takes me back to my tiny bedroom with the 9" tv on the dresser that i had to use a fork to turn on cuz the power switch was broken off.
I mean it's a fun discussion but in the end of the day does it matter how we label it? It's a classic , that's all that matters
I have to completely disagree with those that think Legend of Zelda games are "RPG", RPGs and even "Action RPGs" have stats based in some part on the categories of stats derived from and can be traced back to Dungeons & Dragons, and has character(s) that can be be leveled up with some kind of Experience Points by either killing monsters or doing certain tasks. LOZ is an action adventure game with some RPG-ish elements.
I had a friend in 2nd grade that called my Sega Genesis a Nintendo. He insisted that even a PlayStation was a Nintendo. I think you would get along with him well
Haha!
Some people are mad that he brought out the RECEIPTS with his stance. Miyamoto himself said it. It said on the Japanese box 3Dアクションrpg (action rpg). To deny Zelda of any RPG status at all is silly, and often probably due to the fact that somebody doesn’t like it, and doesn’t want it grouped in with beloved FF’s or dragon quests.
@@colinDESU His recipes are wrong. Zelda boxes don't have a great track record of containing accurate information. The original Majora's Mask box says that it's a 4 player game and includes an illustration of 4 controllers. Miyamoto has said many times that Zelda is *not* an RPG and that he doesn't like them
@@jw3st0n show me the receipts for Miyamoto saying that and I’ll apologize.
@@colinDESU Go to Shigeru Miyamoto's wikipedia page and look at the last paragraph under Development philosophy. It's just before the "Impact" subheading. Wikipedia includes several references including a link to a September 14th 2003, Nintendo Official Magazine (UK) where Miyamoto says " I personally have a fundamental dislike of the RPG system" and tells why. I'll post some links, but they may not show up
Zelda was inspired by Rpgs and at the time the idea of what an rpg was was very flimsy. And so it was called one. But nowadays, now that it's very clear what elements an RPG actually contains Zelda is an action adventure title. Regardless of what you call it, it's still incredible.
Exactly how i feel about it couldn’t have said it better myself in my opinion Zelda is not a traditional RPG it has elements of the genre but it has always focused on exploration, puzzles, and combat not leveling up customization of your character or party members i feel as if it’s a action adventure game
Side note:
When you said your cousin learned to read from dragon warrior it really hit home for me, I taught myself to read and write when I was 3 because of the famous speak and spell from E.T.
Oh yes, there can be serious educational value in learning through games.
It literally put me years ahead of my peers.
Good time to bring up Dragon Quest (Warrior). Today would have been film, television, & video game composer Koichi Sugiyama's birthday.
Sugiyama-San worked on The 1st eleven Dragon Quest games (1986-2017).. and E.V.O.: Search for Eden (1992).
I remember playing E.V.O. I thought it was a lot of fun.
Am I crazy thinking Zelda is an RPG? What do you think? Thanks for watching guys.
We’re all pretty much bat dung looney toons 😂
I would say it's an action adventure game, but in the end nobody can prevent you from identifying as Link while playing it. In that sense I guess it's an "RP-able-game.
Do I make sense?
Zelda 2 for the NES, the best Zelda, is the closest to an rpg. The experience / leveling up of attack, life (defense), and magic (point usage) are definitely rpg features. It has magic use kind of like an rpg. It lacks the acquisition of better equipment though.
I have never seen Zelda series as an rpg, always thought of the franchise as an action adventure series.
not crazy, just sloppy
Its personal for everyone but to me, a rpg has to have some sort of active experience system. You need to be able to level up skills and see a tangible difference with that leveling. Zelda is an action adventure game for me because it has progression based advancement. It's more like Metroid where you get to a point in the game and get an item/ability to let you get to the next. It's not like links attack power gets any stronger, he just acquires different swords. So thats how I look at it, you need to have some sort of experience system where each kill means something, which is why its more action adventure, again like Metroid. If Zelda is a RPG, Metroid is too.
You technically through the experience of playing the game upgrade your hearts and mana. In most of them any way.
Zelda 2, the best Zelda, actually does have an experience / level building system. Your attack gets stronger, your life bar takes less damage, and your magic spells use less magic when casting as you level them up.
The Zelda games never met that criteria of an RPG for me. I acknowledge that it is considered an action RPG franchise of course, but RPG to me always meant turn based, levels, etc. There's nothing wrong with ARPGs, I love em, but I have two distinct categories in my head canon. Strategy RPGs are a whole different category, I love me some Final Fantasy Tactics, Front Mission, Vandal Hearts, etc.
As far as Castlevania goes, I wouldn't consider any of them to fit the mold of RPG, though starting with SotN's direction they were definitely closer. I think it's fair to say platformer with RPG elements there.
Zelda is an Action Adventure ...the only "RPG" Element there is you get some Loot😂
@@KnowToChill saying Zelda isn't a RPG is like saying 7th saga isn't a RPG.
Zelda's are overhead action adventure games that have role playing elements,crept for Zelda 2 is a side scrolling action adventure game with role playing elements. Great episode Tyler, oh yeah, I just learned that you're Grandfather was an incredible comic book artist, whom I followed as a youngster and that fact blew my mind. Big fan and of yours as well, keep on killing it bro, and thanks 😅
Your dad liked to put the game cartridges in plastic rental style cases and he modified the box artwork to fit in them. It’s hard to put them back in the cardboard boxes after taking them out.
I work in Shanghai. A British colleague told me about Magic Spoon so I imported it for an ungodly amount of money. It was worth it.
1:35 that kid with the realistic uzi, holy shit
I had one too. It was a fairly popular toy into the late 80s.
@@Dad_Brad overseas this is still a big thing in a majority of regions lol
@@plusah1268 yeah in America now kids play with real guns.
don't stress about a toy dude
@@videostash413 kid probably robbed a bank with it and lead the police on a three hour chase crashed into Trump tower and went viral
Consider this: Zelda II is the one game in the series that almost everyone can agree is an RPG and is at the same time almost universally labeled the franchise's "black sheep".
But that’s also because its side scrolling, and yes I know links awakening and other Gameboy Zelda’s have sections like that but links adventure was just so much more different then every other game with or with out the leveling system
In my 90's mind, I would describe it as a story based adventure game.
The games that were text and menu heavy I considered RPG's at that time.
Dragon warrior was not an adventure is a turn-based RPG the purest type of RPG that possibly could ever exist
Seeing your home videos in 60fps makes me extremely happy inside. It's just so refreshing to see!
Glad you enjoy it! It’s 60 fps or bust for me haha
The creator of The Legend of Zelda referred to Link as Zelda in that article you show around the seven minute mark. Something to the effect of, "We changed the graphics. So we had to change the way Zelda swings his sword." Was he not Link in the OG Zelda game? Now my head is spinning.
The wii u eshop actually considered Zelda to be a rpg
I remember the 3ds eshop also labeled the phoenix wright games as rpgs, and I don't think a single person considers them that
Personally I don't care if the series of Zelda games are called RPG, action adventure or whatever. The series of Legend of Zelda games is still my favorite series of all time. I play them every chance I get. To be honest I think it's the reason I still buy only Nintendo systems. I know from watching videos that the other consoles have better graphics, but that's not why I enjoy playing games. I want the games to be fun, where I don't have to put up with real life for a little while. That's just me though.
Holy crap, that kid at 1:36 wielding a completely black gat. Big no-no today.
Also Zelda is an action-rpg probably.
Haha yep they don’t sell toys like that anymore
It was not a RPG to me growing up. Everything has elements of something else but what is at the core. At its core, Zelda is an action adventure. I need to have some in depth character building for it to be an RPG. I feel like when you call Zelda an RPG, you are trying to get off on a technicality. I love this channel, even when you are wrong, lol. I look forward to your next video!
I love that NES Advantage controller. I remember my mom buying me that for like $45 if I remember correctly and this controller helped me beat my favorite game of all time, Blaster Master because of the slow motion option for the 5th stage boss, THE CRAB. LMAO
In Australia our main arcade chain back in the 90's used to be a place called Timezone, i remember when i was young me and my brothers would go to the "lock in" nights where youre locked in for a fee and all games were unlimited did u have those in usa?
I'm older than that.... I always thought it was an "Action / Adventure" Game.
80s kid here. I never played Legend of Zelda games as a kid until 'A Link To The Past' on SNES. My introduction to 'RPGs' was Ironsword: Wizards & Warriors II. The story, the music, the graphics.... it just checked all the boxes for my tiny lil' heart. Questing & platforming through caves, dungeons, waterfalls and chasms to find golden items for giant animal kings is the stuff that gets my gaming motor running.
I'm diagnosed with ADHD, so faster-paced games that don't require long stretches of focus and "grinding" will keep me from being alienated. Clearly, somebody at Rare Coin-It thought the same thing when they made the W&W series for the NES.
Put simply: Art -whether it's a video game or not- of ANY sort is without bounderies. It's best expressed when painted outside the lines. We use the term "RPG" so magazines and retailers can properly categorize it. We the consumers take the term that much further with our passion and dedication. Nothing more.
Zelda has no complex stat system to really play a role, but uses few improvements in the form of items and weapons. But that's true for 90% of video games. A Gta with the Missions for different people (like quests) and possibilities to choose what to do with consequences and better stats by doing side quests would have even more of an rpg than Zelda. And even games with very similar elements as zelda like MediEvil are called action adventure, cause there is no real chance to play a role without complex stats to make it Immersive and highly impressionable. Therefore, Zelda should actually be classified as an action adventure with real-time RPG elements.
Perhaps the real question is: IS there a specific name to categorize Zelda games under? I don't think so. Miyamoto is such a genius, inspired by so many things, that he was able to create a genre on its own with Zelda.
Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon
Jeez Tyler...didnt have a wasp nest to swat at today? couldnt find a puppy to kick on camera?
Is Legend of Zelda an RPG? something something 10 ft pole...something something 3rd rail. LOL.
I hope this goes super viral for ya Brother because the subject should bring out the feels and the trolls.
9:20 I would argue that the term was more nebulous back in the day. Since the Zelda clones shared a similar theme to games like Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, etc, they were lumped into the same genre, probably to help market the games.
Per Wiki: "The Legend of Zelda[a] is an action-adventure game franchise created by the Japanese game designers Shigeru Miyamoto and Takashi Tezuka...The gameplay incorporates action-adventure and elements of action RPG games."
Other than "Zelda II: The Adventure of Link"; to my knowledge, all other games in the franchise are listed as "action adventure" titles on GameFAQS as well.
First of all, I LOVE your channel. Watching this video (and others you uploaded) I can tell the difference between the first and third world. I'm from Argentina and here things from the 80s only arrived in the early 90s. Here no one had an original console or cartridges due to their high cost, so the "Family Game" was very popular, a clone of the Japanese Famicom. We never knew an original game with a box and manual, so we had to grow up discovering the controls, maps and other aspects of the games (not to mention that most of them were in English or Japanese). On the other hand, franchises like Zelda or Metroid were not well known in these latitudes; We usually had "bootleg" cartridges like "75 games in 1", which did not include those titles. We met those franchises in later console generations. Lastly, Nintendo was always very expensive here, it was rare to see someone with a Game Boy, SNES or N64. Most had the 8-bit Family Game, then some Sega Genesis clone (for example, I had the "Super Senga"), and in the 3D generation, PlayStation more than N64, especially because of pirated games. I think we missed a lot of the game experience, but I'm not complaining, we made do with what we had and were happy.
Please tell me what that green thing was @1:28 ! I think I had one as a kid!
Yep! Ocarina of Time says "3D "アクション" (Action) RPG". I knew that since I was a kid that Zelda is not like a turn based RPG, but still an RPG.
Your dad is a great man! Watching your videos, I just have so much admiration for your father. Of course, your content is top notch as well! I just wanted to give you a shout out man and let you know that!
Favorite Final Fantasy Games I’ve Beaten
1. VII
2. VII Remake
3. X
4. Tactics
5. VI
6. VIII
7. IX
8. IV
9. V
Favorite Final Fantasy Characters
1. Cloud (7)
2. Tifa (7R)
3. Auron (10)
4. Sephiroth (7)
5. Vivi (9)
6. Yuna (10)
7. Lulu (10)
8. Cid (7)
9. Yuffie (7R)
10. Aerith (7R)
11. Barret (7)
12. Red XIII (7)
13. Jessie (7R)
14. Sonon (7R)
15. Biggs (7R)
16. Steiner (9)
17. Zidane (9)
18. Wakka (10)
I've always thought of them as action RPGs as well. They were my gateway to jrpgs
I love Manny and Mikey's haircut. It makes me know they were in good hands. 😊
You didn't really acknowledge character based progression which is a key thing for RPGs. Heart containers are technically optional since people have done 3 heart runs, and if you farm the same enemies over and over again, Link never gets stronger whereas a character does in any other RPG. I think games like Crystalis, Secret of Mana, Kingdom Hearts, and Ys have really set what an action RPG is, and Zelda is not really like those, it stays mostly in the action adventure realm. But everyone agrees Zelda 2 is an action RPG
this is the simplest, and most technical explanation. great example on farming enemies to gain exp.
According to your definition crono cross one of the greatest RPGs of all time is not an rpg either. You don't gain experience you can't farm enemies to level up.
@@chrisjohnson9542 does it not have a leveling system? I've never played chrono cross
@@chrisjohnson9542 Crono Cross has a levelling system. So it is an RPG
I think there are more for points of Zelda being an RPG most of the time than not. MOST of the entries at least. 1) You name your character at the beginning 2) You increase health and mana through playing and conquering dungeons 3) can acquire and upgrade and switch out weapons and shields, equipment like boots and armor 4) gaining new abilities and equipment and upgrading them 5) boss levels often require a certain level, abilities and/or equipment
Upgrading your health and mana aren't necessarily an RPG thing within the context of the game. You level those things up by collecting certain requirements, whereas in an RPG those are stats that are usually increased through levelling your character. Completing the dungeon for example is always the requirement. Though in an RPG you have many options to level yourself up. Whether it's killing enemies, completing a dungeon, finishing a quest or exploration.
I consider The Legend of Zelda an RPG. Also it’s nice to see this new video pop up from you today, Tyler.
Me and many of your Patreons are always looking forward to the new content.
Appreciate y’all so much! Thanks for the support
RPGs especially from the 80s 90s were table top games in video game form. Table top games were called RPGs. So the video game version is also an rpg. Zelda IS NOT an rpg. There's more to genre than the literal definition of the words. Every game is not an rpg
@@joshbrucks can we at least agree that there are some elements to an RPG in the Zelda genre?
@@joshbruckswell Mr. Miyamoto would beg to differ.
I consider my band to be a country music band, however most people seem to think we play death metal
@2:46 thats $1k worth of nes games. Your dad was a baller.
I think RPG has taken on a more specific meaning. When I think of RPG, I think of games of midlevel or ancient times that consist of deep character development, Games that utilize spells/magic/potions, games that have an in-depth leveling system/skill system that is much more than just beating a level/platform. These games also have a very rich and in-depth storyline. All of these elements make up an RPG. If a game has one or a couple of these elements, they aren't considered an RPG, but have one or more RPG elements.
If the term RPG is broad enough to include Zelda (or any game, as you mentioned), then why is it an important that we recognize Zelda as an RPG? There has to be *something* distinctive about an RPG from your perspective, otherwise you wouldn't bother laboring to defend Zelda as an RPG. Genres should be distinctive. The more broadly genre-terms are used, the less meaningful they become. Can we also call Zelda a shoot-em-up? You do shoot arrows after all. -- Sorry for the long comments. No disrespect. Love your videos.
River City Ransom is the greatest RPG ever🔥
nope, nba 2k11 is.
Your both wrong... Pong is clearly the best rpg.
River city ransom is a beat em up RPG not an RPG sheesh
Super Mario Brothers 3 is dude you have an item inventory and shit so
My definition of an RPG is based on a misunderstanding I had as a kid. I thought it was Roll Playing Game, not Role Playing Game; so to me RPGs were games where everything's based on dice rolls.
To me, Zelda's kind of it's own thing, I don't personally consider it an RPG; since there's no dice rolls going on behind the scenes determining your damage and whatnot. But I totally get the argument that it's an RPG.
Due to the lack of an expirience system in most zelda titles I call the series action adventure games.
But I can see how some people disagree on that. Noone get hurt for disagreeing here.
What I haven't seen before is someone that calls the Zelda series role playing games but SOTN not?
This is some confusing stuff. And I remember when Larry Bundy Jr called the Atari Jaguar 64 bit and the Sega Dreamcast a 32bit machine.
And the whole argument of Myamoto saying it counts as one, doesn't matter in the slightest. The Inventor of the gif said it's pronounced "Jif" to which I say gif stands for Graphics Interchange Format. Unless you change the legal pronouciation of the word graphics, it will be called gif.
Yooooo! The kid with the toy uzi lol... we all had one
I 100% agree with you on your take. Zelda games have rpg elements through story and NPCs and leveling up not just through heart containers, but in the original and link to the past you have rings and mail, plus sword upgrades. What happened was RUclipsrs came out with their own opinions on things and that became gospel.
If you had friends over and they asked "Do you have any fruit to snack on?" and you handed them a tomato they would just laugh. A tomato is scientifically a fruit but is culinarily used as a vegetable. Zelda is a tomato. I would be surprised in the same way some I asked what your favorite RPGs are and your first answer is Zelda.
Zelda isn’t a role playing game. In some games it shares elements of RGPs in some games but it’s mostly an action adventure game.
exactly
Interesting video idea. I'd love to see more like analysis of gaming culture from our past compared to gaming culture today. It's interesting to remember how different we thought about all these games and genres.
I feel that as the industry has evolved, so have the genres and the way we classify games within them. Most games are going to have qualities that borrow from MULTIPLE genres making it nearly impossible to divide them up in a way everyone's going to agree on.
Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon
I think the only Zelda game that could even be considered an RPG is the second game since you actually level different stats in that game. For pretty much every entry that I can remember though, the games are Action Adventure. An RPG needs to have a levelling system that you can invest in to form the character or play style you want.
Yeah there's no fuckin numbers in Zelda. And there's no "chance to miss/chance to hit". Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon
My understanding is there are ARPGs like Zelda, JRPGs descended from Dragon Quest, CRPGs that descend from Ultima and Wizardry, and SRPGs like Fire Emblem or Ogre Battle.
A Zelda episode! It’s a great day! Can’t wait to watch! :)
Hope you enjoyed it!
@@MyRetroLife I did! I always considered Zelda an action adventure game but I can see why people say Zelda can be considered an RPG
@@MyRetroLifeTyler I was rewatching this episode and a question popped up. What did your dad think of Zelda since he wasn’t an RPG guy I would love to know! If so what was his favorite in the series. Also what’s your favorite 3D Zelda besides Ocarina of Time?
"RPG" comes from tabletop games with dice, stats, level ups, and so on. While we were playing Nintendo games, older gamers had Western RPGs on PCs, like Ultima, which is where JRPGs came from. So really what happened was a generation gap: gen X Americans had "real" RPGs on PCs, but millenials preferred consoles from Japanese makers, so we didn't learn about "real" RPGs until the Japanese decided we were ready for them in the mid 90s.
At the time, nobody really knew what game belonged to what genre, we just played them and enjoyed them. But nobody knew because video games were still too young as a medium.
I’m still not clear on WHY Zelda should be considered an RPG other than a vogue concept like “getting stronger” or that other people felt it is. Like there has to be more argument for Zelda being an RPG other than its fantasy and you can “upgrade” your character
Yeah there's no fuckin numbers in Zelda. And there's no "chance to miss/chance to hit". Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon
I think people who get super intense about a game's genre are probably missing the forest for the trees.
I agree with you. If you look at BOTW the more you fight enemies the stronger you get. I pretty sure there’s a hidden level system in it. Certainly bigger enemies become easier each time. OOT is similar as you grow more as you progress. It’s an interesting way to view a game series as Zelda. 😊👍
I think the definition of RPG has changed as games have grown in number and diversity. I think back in the day, having a game with a lot of words which you read to get a grasp of the story as a main aspect of the draw is what really gave it the RPG label. Over time the "RPG" titles really broke into different groups based on the gameplay more than the experience. If someone says to me "RPG", they are talking about a turn-based (maybe with some time elements sometimes) battle system where you select your moves from a list, with a specific battle mode and exploring mode. So Dragon Warrior is about as RPG as RPGs can get, but also basically every final fantasy game. Games like castlevania, metroid, and zelda games I would not consider RPGs, although there is a hint of it in them.
This is like Strategy games and Real Time Strategy, or RTS. Strategy games is turn based, it waits for you to make your moves then the next player makes their moves, on and on. RTS everything happens at the same time. Same here, a RPG turns are taken, and an Action RPG everything happens at once. To be an Action RPG it needs a leveling system of some sort, and I guess getting better gear can be considered leveling up. I've always called games that are real time but have a leveling system as Action RPG.
In a way, Legend of Zelda is an RPG, yet It wasn't exactly as traditional as Final Fantasy in terms of gameplay and progress, It has the elements of adventure and the story talking place on a medieval setting. If It wasn't for Legend of Zelda, what would have been of the Darksiders game series and many other games.
A medieval setting doesn't inherently make something an rpg
@@pokekiller787x yeah, true but at the time, It was the most common atmosphere an RPG and thier respective clones (Final Fantasy or Zelda clones). I don't remember of there was a futuristic RPG on the 80's, the only ones that I remember talking place on a futuristic Sci -Fi or maybe Steampunk setting were Chrono Trigger and Shadowrun. But if you happen to know one from the 80s I would like to know, I'm helping on a game Review channel and another suggestion of a game to review would be great.
@cpl.barbarusc4814 It's very true that the setting is extremely common in RPGs. There is an RPG called Lagrange Point for the Famicom, but if you don't speak Japanese, it requires an English patch to play. That wasn't the 80s, though. It was in 91.
@@pokekiller787x Lagrange Point huh? I'm a sucker of japanese Sci-Fi so I could give this a go, and hopefully with patch or at least on an emulator, just to take a looksy.
This reminds me of conversations about punk and its subgenre. You get some people gatekeeping rhe ahit about it, and defining it in narrow terms, some allowing for a lot of wiggle room, and of course, people who really don't give a shit and just enjoy it.
*subgenres plural
God, I wish I could edot my commentam I'm bad with typos.
I'd buy Magic Spoon if it weren't so damn expensive for a box half the size of any other cereal I can get at the grocery store.
Did you own Wind Waker, Four Swords Adventures and Twilight Princess? They also made a collector’s edition for GameCube with all the original Zelda titles.
Well if it’s not an RPG, ITS A SECRET TO EVERYBODY
I disagree respectfully.
If Zelda is an RPG then the term is watered down. And yes they were wrong back IMO. Role Playing is called that because of D&D. You are playing a role and developing your character in a fashion similar to D&D. The defining features of a tabletop RPG are stats, party members, turn based combat and custom characters.
Zelda has none of this, except Zelda 2 which has stats.
Zelda doesn't play like D&D. Maybe back then they thought, well its close enough, but games have broadened their genres so much that to call Zelda an RPG you need to call Metroid an RPG, or God of War, Batman Arkham series,
I can accept variations in a genre if 1 or 2 mechanics aren't there . Example not every RPG needs custom characters, but I would say everyone needs stats.
Saying Zelda is an RPG because you earn more health and abilities, well that's Metroid and Castlevania SOTN as well. They aren't RPGs because the abilities you are getting aren't choices. That is the ROLE in Role Playing. Making your character custom. Unless you always sequence break, you will always get the same items in Zelda. You need the Arrows, you need the bombs. You aren't choosing to be an Archer or a Bomber, with advantages or disadvantages to each, you are just progressing through the game.
In Mega Man you acquire new abilities and health packs etc, but its not an RPG.
I agree with there being different genres of RPGs but I don't think Zelda is an Action RPG.
Dark Souls is an Action RPG, because you create your own character and focus on specific builds to fit the role you want.
Zelda 2 is the only Zelda game that fits the action RPG genre.
LOVE THE SNIBBLETS OF NEW FOOTAGE❤
More to come from A Link To The Past!
Hey Tyler I don't know if you remember me the guy living in Japan LOL. But the bottom of the box says ACTION RPG. Just a quick correction cause I read Japanese LOL. But regardless I always considered Zelda as an Action adventure type of game. So sorry Tyler LOL. Congrats on your success I knew you would make it and keep on the good work I love the videos :).
The Legend of Zelda is not a RPG It's a JRPG and that's a funny joke to tell everyone who still thinks The Legend of Zelda is not a JRPG. I love that Shigeru Miyamoto confirms both sides. Cool video. ^_^
The problem is what makes a game an RPG? After all Borderlands fits pretty much every criteria to be a role playing game with its quests, side-quests, NPCs, shops to buy and sell loot, upgrades, stats etc. Yet people would no doubt just class Borderlands as a loot shooter.
characte customization is the only thing that makes an rpg. otherwise you are not role playing, you are assuming a predetermined role in a predetermined story
@@BlastinRope So your trying to say Witcher 3 isnt an RPG? Chrono Trigger? Being able to have a custom character or not has nothing to do with the classification of RPG. You are playing the role of Geralt for example.
@@BlastinRope What level of character customisation would you say counts for a RPG?
After all if that is the only bar then Red Dead Redemption would count as a role playing game.
@@patrickjones2843 100%, this person is way off base. Totally agree.
I have always considered Zelda an RPG. You get the chance to expand your characters stats through exploration and equipment. Not all stats are required but there is still a grind if you want max load. Just because there aren't stats involved to me doesn't make it inherently not an RPG. As long as the game gives you the choice to buff yourself or just get through it at bare minimum meets my requirements of an RPG type game. I remember debating this with friends in the 90's, some of them thought an RPG had to be turned based with numbers but I thought all of that was semantics when the real RPG aesthetic was get through the game while increasing your characters power to the point where you feel you are ready to complete the mission as long as the point A and B allowed.
I started off i believe on thr calico vision and than the nes. Im 37 so i always was drawn to games. My mom bought me every and any rpg i wanted because my brother would hate then cause of all the reading. I loved them
When I was kid i always viewed RPGs as games where you selected commands in a menu and watch your characters fight, like Final Fantasy/Mario RPG. Games where you control your character in real time to fight I always viewed as "Adventure" games. Even so, I don't have any problems calling Zelda an RPG, and I think it's 100% fair to call Zelda an Action/Adventure RPG.
Zelda and Final Fantasy are both similar in that characters grow both in the storytelling and through acquiring stronger items, weapons, and magic throughout their adventure.
The main difference for me is that in Final Fantasy a character also gets stronger as their levels/EXP points increase, whereas in Zelda, Link only gets stronger proportionate to the players gaming skills/ gaming experience.
Monster Hunter is an action RPG with no leveling up at all. Just upgrades…which all Zelda games have to different degrees. Especially modern Zelda now. TOTK even has a “party” that fights with you, and abilities you can have them use with you. You can upgrade them, your clothes, and even upgrade your weapons via fuse, hearts and stamina. Its an action adventure RPG or just an action RPG.
I always just considered it an action adventure game growing up in the late 80s early 90s.
What Tyler doesn't explain to you is even with his promo code is that you're still paying for basically the crap as Apple Jacks or whatever and it's not even that much better health wise. It's almost $10 a box without his Promo Code and you find these cereals in Walmart
Zelda is action & adventure game with a bit of rpg elements
This is kind of a never ending debate. Back then, Nintendo Power explained that Zelda is action-adventure, or maybe action-RPG, but it’s not exactly traditional RPG’s, which usually have more text, and experience points, etc. I think there is a meaningful difference, regardless the terminology.
Phantasy Star IV is my favorite traditional JRPG. Xp points, a changing group of characters, tons of text, space travel etc. You save a whole solar system! Then I play Zelda: Ocarina and it’s really just one solitary character, watching the rain in the graveyard
I used to consider it an RPG before I knew much about the genre. Aside from Zelda 2, I think it's on the borderline of the action adventure and action RPG genres.
I don't know exactly what it is but I know that my childhood would be completely different without it
I have always thought of the Zelda games as RPGs, because that's what we called them back in the day.
So often these days do I see modern gamers or whomever try to dictate some new take on whatever thing we've all known for decades that they are now trying to force everyone to think of otherwise, and they somehow think they know better, when they just don't.
I'm not a fan of their rewriting of or revisionist history at all.
And, yup, SotN is an action platformer; it's definitely not an RPG. Just as shoot 'em up or "shump" does not mean any old game where you shoot things either. It almost always means scrolling shooters where you fly something around the screen while blasting away at things, like classic Gradius, R-Type, Super Aleste, U.N. Quadron, etc. Smash TV and Xeno Crisis (welcome to the recently released SNES version), for example, are not shmups. Those are something else, like twin stick shooters or Robotron clones. And run 'n' gun games like Contra, Gunstar Heroes and Cuphead are not shmups; they're run 'n' gun games. House of the Dead and Time Crisis are not shmups as the Wikipedia "shoot 'em up" page might have you believe; they're arcade-style [light]gun games.
It's also kinda like how Apple's marketing team brainwashed everyone into saying x amount "thin", so everyone knows just how thin their devices are, when the phrase is correctly said as x amount thick (regardless of how amazingly thin it is).
And it's not "addicting"; it's addictive: This game is so dang addictive that I just can't put it down.
And so on.
Okay. My rant is over. But, you get me. Just don't let "teh Internet" dictate the new "facts" to you and you should be good. :D
AAMEN! 100%
Damn straight.
Having an element or two taken from RPGs doesn't make the game an RPG. It makes it action-adventure with minor RPG elements. Most games have similar features and we don't call everything an RPG just because you can use an item or change your weapon
@@vacantseaofplanetsDoesn't change my point.
I still have a sealed box of Batman cereal.
I had this same identity crisis when i was 9. You are having it as a midlife crisis😂😂😂
I think that the series was established as a acton rpg when Zelda 2 came out, and the rest of the games sense then have included side quest's that are optional to play through, like in traditional rpg's.
I'd argue that most Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest games also aren't RPGs, since usually you're following a pretty set story with set characters, not role playing. I think we call these games RPGs because they have mechanics that function similar to tabletop RPG mechanics. So I think "Adventure" describe Zelda, Final Fantasy, etc better than RPG ever could
It’s an action adventure. But I only like WINDWAKER or TEARS of the kingdom, neither of those really have rpg elements as far as leveling up things like that
12:48 Well, yes, it has heart containers and item upgrades that grow your character. But so does Metroid (tanks instead of hearts), and nobody calls that an RPG, then or now. And Metal Gear too, you grow your max health and rank and get better weapons and items to take on stronger enemies. Also, not thought of as an RPG series. Even if you are Playing the Role of a character in both of those Games.
I think the real disconnect is that the term RPG wasn't well defined early on. And over the years it's gotten more and more strictly defined. Especially since so many modern games include "RPG Elements" in them, which usually means that there is some sort of experience points/leveling system. So we now expect that an RPG has to have some sort of experience points/leveling system in it. And Zelda does not, other than Zelda II.
But speaking of Zelda II, the series does however usually have towns and people to talk to and gather information about the current dilemma, and big open worlds and dungeons to explore and a long story in a fantasy setting. Which are all further staples of the genre.
So imho, with those things in addition to how the character progression happens (even if it's not experience points based), that puts it more firmly in the RPG genre.
In Germany we have a word that nitpicky behaviour. It's called "Wortklauberei"