Tesla Team is Building INSANELY ELEGANT Motors for TeslaBot! Uncovering Details with Scott Walter
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- Опубликовано: 5 ноя 2022
- Tesla AI's latest recruiting ad is all about ACTUATORS--the small but powerful motors that allow Teslabot (Tesla's amazing humanoid robot) to move around. While electric motors have been around for a long time, these custom designed actuators are made from bespoke parts and amazingly refined. In fact the parts can look as much like high end watch parts as parts of a robot. Dr. Scott Walter, factory simulation and robotics experts, helps explain why these actuators are crucial to Optimus's future!
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Lex's Interview: • Andrej Karpathy: Tesla... 
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What I should have mentioned about the possible compliant joint in the foot. This could help prevent the foot from slipping in the lateral direction during stride. The leg is really a 5 DOF mechanism, but this gives the kinematics an additional sixth degree-of-freedom to maintain the foot orientation with its contact surface. Otherwise the torso/pelvis may need to sway unnaturally to counter this affect.
Good point. Thank you!
I tried it so much to make you aware of this video via Livechat and Twitter during your livestream with Farzad and James!!😅
Would have loved to see your live reaction to this video!
@@DrKnowitallKnows at 36:00 you guys talk about "optimising" for the wrong goal, and how you should consider the original goal of something so the task doesn't get lost in translation, etc.
Reminds me of Southwest airlines CEO Herb Kelleher when asked about serving chicken salad on the planes" :
He said, ”We are THE low-fare airline. Once you understand this fact, you can make any decision about the company’s future as well as I can”.
He then gave an example.
“So someone called Tracy from the marketing department comes to your office and tells you that, based on a survey, passengers might enjoy a salad from Houston to Las Vegas. But we serve only peanuts and it would be nice to serve chicken Caesar salad. How would you respond?”
The person didn’t know what to say. So Kelleher replied to his question himself.
“You ask Tracy ‘Will adding a chicken salad to the menu will make us THE low-fare airline from Houston to Las Vegas? Because if it doesn’t then we are not serving any damn chicken salad.”
www.linkedin.com/pulse/we-serving-any-damn-chicken-salad-story-bookreview-shuhrat-ashurov
It's another fine example of Goodhart's Law - ""When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure" :)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
I complained I had no shoes until I met a human with no feet. Turing v369 perspective
Thanks Guys! Excellent job of communicating the functions and construction of the actuator's to me. Your teaching skills are strong!
And most people think Tesla is only an EV car company. Their Energy division is also doing amazing stuff hardware and software wise. I’m retired but it looks like a great place to work if you are sharp and willing to work hard.
Again Tesla is totally open about what they are doing and show so much more of the development. You don't see any other Robotis maker showing their design and skill level for such things. Amazing..
Totally. Amazing faith in their ability to out-innovate mimics like XPeng, gm, or Apple. End of video - need individuals responsible for design constraints, for fundamentals, otherwise end up designed into dead-end. Mimics don’t get that.
Thank you for making this video. I saw the Tesla actuator video the other day and was hoping someone would do this and of course someone had. :)
Cool video as usual. Keep the excitement going!
6:16 I also thought this was showing and end mill or thread cutter! Wow! Can't wait to see more of this in finer detail
They showed watering plants. Consider the range of motion, feedback, and processing to accurately do that task. Everything changes as the water exits the pitcher, requiring continuously updated movement and feedback rates and logical evaluation of an entirely dynamic activity.
And its funny coincidence thats what i would need the Tesla bot most. Tending for the plants.
On the shaft of the actuator not spinning, as long as it it installed there is no reason for there to be any internal mechanism to prevent it, as the installation will prevent it, plus as you said this will also allow some freedom of motion to prevent binding. Or in other words an uninstalled actuator might have its shaft spin around if motor is operated, but it would never be operated like that so it doesn't matter.
Imagine integrating all this very sophisticated hardware with the software, amazing engineering, hw and sw. Exciting place to work.
Those planetary gears are on the inside rod as well, so not only is the outside traveling, the inside is traveling as well. That keeps it "attached" but it can rotate if not for the end joint. 11:00
I can imagine that once the design is finalized that these units like legs and arms etc will be turned into castings with all mounting points cast in place to greatly simplify the construction of this robot.
Why not take it a step further and cast the outside of the motors into the casting as well.
haha, I had the same idea. Take some dewalt brushless drills for example, the yellow plastic shell holds the motor component together!
That's amazing stuff. Makes me think I should have gone into mechanical engineering.
Elegant indeed. Smoother than harmonic drives
The thinner control line going into the ankle sensors is probably fiber optic, multiplexed inside the elastomeric sensor suite. I suspect they need to sense a number of parameters from that area, not just one.
Scott is awesome!
Thanks gents.
Super cool analysis of the ankle. I think it must be a measurement of the foot plate angle.
Maybe the foot sensor is for load measurement. The load may affect different power consumption profiles.
@25:45 you mention that there are 4 large actuators -- 2 quads and 2 hamstring actuators. Why would there be hamstring actuators? Unlike a real muscle, aren't the quad actuators capable of pushing as well as pulling? Or is there a possible problem with buckling if they push too hard?
@Jonathan Loeppky ah, that makes sense
15:30 - Ankle joint looked like it's a half ball joint. actually a Dome top Engine piston looks similar
So where will the emissions speaker be mounted?
Something to note is that the motor housing looks casted, that suggest they allready made casting molds for it and thats not something you really do until you want to produce lage volumes. For a few prototypes you would most likely machine it from a solid block of aluminum. With that sais i may mistake it from a 3D metal printed part.
Regarding the wrist. Did you guys look at the down shot of the watering cam grab? It’s a good angle on the yaw axis mech. Even if it is blue.
I'm thinking the foot sensor is (at least partially) used to detect lateral pressure buildup, much the same way our little toes function to sense when we are leaning or getting out of balance. While that may seem unnecessary, humans have a very difficult time walking or even standing still without the feedback and slight pressure adjustments provided by all of the toes working in unison.
Those ball joints are called Rose Joints, very nicely engineered joints
With the motion of the big arm that does the flip in the factory. I would assume the simple movement creates alot more loads on the joints of the robot arm then the flip does. If you think of the flip as a ball and chain, let's the heavy object dictate its own path and then do that in a controlled manner, and you will reduce the stresses on all of the joints. That seemed like an obvious thing in my brain, but perhaps industry doesn't worry about wear on the robots when programming the paths?
Ok do you think this will allow more elegant movement so that it looks more humanlike when it moves? Will the bent knees stop being a thing when its walking?
Scott is wrong. That flipping maneuver carrying the red box does two things. 1, It changes the box from one side of the robot to the other side and 2, changes red box far side (away from the robot) to be the near side when it’s set down. Watch the white “label” Not saying there is not another way to spin the box 180, but that the sim died not achieve the same result as the video (extrapolated since we don’t actually see the whole move to end) appears to show.
Observation: talking over top of your guest stops him from what he’s trying to get out. It’s frustrating for the listener
Why would you not use stepper motors for lower torque fine control?
there a major up and down motion your missing in your sim. The rotation saves a little time.
Likely a force sensor to determine weight on each foot, could be part of balancing. Another option is gyros or some levelling sensor
couldnt they use vision as a proxy for balance?
@@BongoWongoOG likely a secondary system yes. But vision may be to slow. Normally primary balance sensors would be much higher in body, not in feet. Likely attitude or level sensors combined with weight sensing
Is there any good reason they went with all electric instead of hydraulic?
Think the video at the start can be found on Tesla's linkedIn page
It's great that they r developing the hardware , i think only Tesla can develop optimus hardware at scale , but software can be developed and improved by many companies
Looks like the actuators are Induction Motors, not permanent magnet motors. The cage seems to hold the planetary gears, which if true would be very smart.
Regarding side-view (and rear-view) mirrors: Those still make sense. The human eye takes ages to re-focus between 2 feet and infinite, up to a second in bad light conditions. Time you do not need to spend when looking into a mirror as the focus distance through the mirror matches that of the real distance. But when looking at a screen, you absolutely need to re-focus to the 2-3 foot distance the screen is away from you. So glancing at a mirror for a fraction of a second, or keeping the mirror in your peripheral vision does not work with monitors. You have to take your eyes off the road and stare at the monitor to be able to see anything less obvious than "headlights in the dark".
And yes, to some extent we have the same issue with the dashboard, too. That's why variants of "big red needle on black background" still are used so often---you can judge its angle accurately enough without focusing your eyes on it. When numeric displays are used, they have to be very big so you can read them without having to completely focus your eyes on them, and even then it takes longer to read them.
Since the initial application will be industrial, large more powerful actuators would be more versatile. The home version could be scaled back to save weight, power and cost. Horses for courses ... no?
36:30 reminds me of a tale found in the book: Periodic Table by Primo Levi on the topic of doing things without knowing the basis, he wrote in part: "ammonium chloride is still being put in; and yet today it is completely useless, as I can state from firsthand experience because it was I who introduced it into the formula."
6:30 That's more like a worm gear with low friction
With a yellow surfeboard on the wall its like a statement, could you surfe it (from seweden I know nothing about them).
i'm sure the flip on the large robot arm is for a reason...can't imagine they hadn't thought about what they were doing.
I loved the end, question orthodoxy, have individual responsible for specific requirements. Don’t optimise too early.
Optimus at early stage yet.
Do we really know use case yet?
Factory work with metal vs human service interacting with flesh?
Dangerous vs menial.
And those ball joints are Rose Joints
Bespoke seems to be the current thing, haven't heard so much until about a week ago
quads are big muscles
Maye the force
And the other reason for the planetary gears is to covert rotational motion into linear motion. Doh!
Hey guys, the thing you keep referring to as a “kind of ball joint” is called a “Rose joint” here in the U.K.
Used Rose Joints on the steering of a kit car I built here in the UK. They were great but could not handle the weight and power of a V12 engine but for a Tesla Bot, they seem ideal.
Most likely the starting axis and ending axis are different for the flipping robot arm. The video ends before that is determined.
I have really noticed big differences in power output of the wattage in 250, 500 and 750 watt on my ebikes … battery depletion may not be a big problem considering not every motor is in constant use… just saying, more power good…
Power is measured in watts, so... Yes, that is to be expected. 😊
I read recently of the university in Glasgow UK developing artificial skin and the university of Bristol UK developing artificial fingertips - both having embedded sensors. Sounds just the thing needed for the bots hands.
I think I would do it differently on several points. Take the piano lift, it's a bit above a second for a ca 10cm pull but consider a human running at full speed which is about 3 cycles per second or 6 movements, which is about 10x faster than the piano lift. That's no small difference in speed. It's possible the actuator is a fair bit faster at lower load but it needs strength because that motion is geared in the leg maybe 4x so just to hold its own weight might be 3000N. So there is speed issue that will prevent it from looking capable like a human. it gives it the geriatric vibe common to robots. Not the agility we see in I Robot.
I think the actuators need some compliance/spring loading as well to avoid the jittery movements and you might need double actuators to tense a limb like we can. I'm not sure I would use linear actuators like they do, might just do straight geared but not sure. And I would use the strongest materials like aermet 100 to keep structural limb weight minimal and max room for actuation.
And as a general observation I would get it right in the first revision. There is no value in building a slow stiff robot if that is not what the final product will be. That's just time to realize you did it wrong. Let's skip that.
I think you’re wrong.
Different actuators for gluteus maximus than for knee or calf.
Upper leg swings 100° odd when running, not so lower leg.
Optimus won’t run. Designed so we can easily outrun it, or overpower it.
Which really limits what it can do.
Other parts are more interesting, hand manipulation, visualising environment way beyond not crashing into stuff.
Indeed, linear actuators are very space-inefficient for this.
Is it likely that the Tesla Planetary Roller Screw gearbox can resist being backdriven?
🤗👍MARCH OF NINES 😎💚💚💚
❤❤❤
I work in Aerospace, just as many dumb requirements.
Destination Mars.
I guess the lifting a piano with your leg is an American thing. There is not a lot of call for it in the UK. I can't think of one job interview I've been to where I've been asked if my leg can lift a piano.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻✌🏻
Every requirement needs a rationale so the owners opinion has a backup.
How fast do the linear motors move in the bot? Need to translate rotation to linear motion which could be slow compared to contraction of a human muscle.
Why does Optimus bot not use hydraulics to move. Boston Dynamics use hydraulics with very good results to move quickly. A hydraulic linear actuator is small with a lot of force and fast. Perhaps Tesla has little experience with hydraulics and therefore only use tech they understand.
Just looked at the bot on AI day that walked on stage....it waved but the hands didnt move....they were the same inanimate ones as in the B roll.... ... didnt look at the hands being used with the watering cans.
Can’t wait for the day that TeslaBots will make TeslaBots… though I’m not sure that the current generation hand of TeslaBot is capable enough to be a watchmaker…
Wait - the Teslabot has no butt?? No wonder it's so slow. Give it a powerful booty and watch it take off...
Serious question - assuming the Teslabot works as intended, will it eliminate at least some of the market for industrial robots? Are there not some tasks now done by industrial robots that could be done as well by the Teslabot? If so, given the price of most industrial robots (the stationary arm type) is in the same ballpark as the projected price target for the Teslabot and the Teslabot will be way more flexible in terms of uses - it could drive out some of the current industrial robots.
Why don't they use hydraulic systems. They can always be down size and have dampen. The entire system and developed on the Bench.
Out of curiosity, what does Tesla use for car ride height adjustments? Do they also use linear actuators, and any improvements on linear actuators for Optimus could be reapplied to vehicles?
They are pneumatic.
Pneumatic, also called air suspension. Using actuators for suspension in a car, in my humble opinion would not be possible as vibrations would reduce functionality and longevity.
In Model S and X with air suspension they use those. In the first 3 they used actuators for the head lamps - as is mandatory in the EU - and in modern 3 and Y with matrix LED they use those to adjust for height changes. In many 3‘s if found mechanical sensors on one wishbone, in the Y they use Software to measure the cars orientation and change according to changed weights and orientations. Very sophisticated.
But height „adjustment“ is only done in S and X air suspension with their air bags. Pneumatic.
Thank you. Can you comment, toes on humans seem to optimize balance. What about toes on the bot, why not? Too much wear and tear?
Toe much wear and tear😄
Etra flip on factory robot was just ‘showing off’ for the video.
Tesla doesn't use transmissions.. cars, robots or otherwise. Completely uanessacry if you have good motor controls
I want one to drive my Cybertruck … where do I send my $100😁
Rather than a watch, it makes me think of an old fashioned Singer sewing machine.
In retrospect, the mechanical stitching of a sewing machine is an impressive achievement. Here is a traditionally fine detailed movement carried out at ridiculous speeds (in close proximatity to humans) while the cloth is also in motion. The rotary motion of the electric motor (or pedal) is translated into motion of the needle.
Video: "How to use: Old Singer Sewing machine demonstration"
Demonstration of a 1894 vintage Singer sewing machine.
ruclips.net/video/thwNiSlMM6I/видео.html
I’d like to get away from using the word “insane” as some non-pejorative, complimentary adjective. Does every wonderful innovation or result have to be insanely (this or that)?
Regarding names on requirements: My experience with that is slightly different, so I don't like putting names there as the sole reason. I've worked with projects in different stages of their lifecycle. In the beginning, all is fine. The people are invested and available. But after two or three years, many of the stakeholders will have changed. Either due to fluctuation or because the team has been shrunk. Especially the team that will have made the early and big decisions will have shrunk substantially---there's less to decide for ongoing development when the big rush of the initial creation phase is over.
Having people as the primary drivers for requirements means that at that point most of your requirements will be orphaned and nobody will know why they are there. Now you could remove all those and ruin your product, but the more likely effect is that those orphaned requirements will become natural laws---or worse church doctrine. Instead, requirements need to be properly documented so that the owning department can re-evaluate them (and be questioned about them) for the whole lifetime of the product.
One of the biggest snags in product maintenance I've experienced were those where a key person left the company (or was on vacation). I look at some part of the implementation and see that it either implements a weird requirement or was very badly designed. I look the requirement up and see that changing it to be more elegant would violate the requirement. So I go to investigate the requirement but the original owner and all that worked with them at the time the requirement was written are unavailable. And guess what, nobody else has the authority (or balls) to redo (and pay for) the complete requirement analysis.
So I spend a couple of weeks preserving that weird functionality with our new additions. And all too often I later met that person in another context (small world, you always meet twice...) and when I ask them about it, it was just some badly worded BS or some draft implementation never was forgotten or the remnants of some long retired process. Or, and that is one of my pet peeves, the effect of a stakeholder who cannot remember what was said in a meeting a week earlier and restarts a discussion so often that people just give up on it, just say "yes" and do their own thing how they think it should be.
i love making bodies. but can u actually make the brain. that is the challenge. and im talking really nice motion! not just average stuff.
Teslabot+Dojo AI training+Twitter human interactions and thoughts data (Raoul Pal)=ohhh, say, $6 trillion market cap. As Captain Kirk replied when asked by the starship... Enterprise crew if they should trade brains with the aliens for the good of humankind..."Gentlemen, risk...is our business." Warp speed, Mr. Spock.
I've never built a robot, so I'm going out on a limb here.
All this "stuff" is needed because for some reason a robot is supposed to be a replacement for a human being - why?
If I were building a robot, I'd start with the simplest structure that can move and get it working and then go after more complex shapes. The robot I'd build would be simple, like the 2 robots from the movie Interstellar - TARS and CASE. Nobody will consider them as a threat to their job - they have other jobs they are good for.
By taking this simple approach, you shrink the development time to just 1/4 the time it takes to make the robot bipedal.
I watched Interstellar, and I don't recall those robots being able to do anything other than roll.
OK, you do that, then. Sounds like a cool project. Good luck! But if you want to have a robot that can interact generally with the environment designed for adult humans you will have a less suitable solution. And the difficult problem will still be software.
There are plenty of simple robots, but these are not world changing. A humanoid robot fits in a human-sized environment, and work with human-products like stairs and tools.
@@darylfoster7944 One picked up an astronaut and carried her back to the ship. I saw them walking all the time. Maybe you snoozed?
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 Again, why on earth shoot for the moon on day one? Have the robot limited to an area that it will do well in and improve the software over the years. Make it just a bunch of slats that can easily be modified as improvements come up.
This all reminds me of kids that never attended class, got Ds and Fs all year long and were going to stay up 48 hours and Ace the final - it never happens.
Baby steps and not dinosaur steps...
Elegant came from the *Latin* _é légaré_ _é_ meaning _out_ and _légaré_ meaning _to choose._ (†) Something elegant is something where all the crap has been _out chosen._
†) Legaré is also at the root of our system of *laws* since they are how we _chose to get along together._
Try to keep the watch talk down. I couldn't care less about watches, who uses what or gave what to who. I clicked for the content description.
you don't want talk about watches and yet here you are talking about talk about watches - very confusing.
working w robots is better than working w humans. inevitable. however, we are not smart enough to put our priorities in the correct order. the most, but most important task we have in hand is our education system. I'm NOT just talking about schools, we don't know the answer to the question: "how to raise children in a way they would enjoy life and be productive at the same time". okay, we have the internet, we have books. like Elon did when he was a kid, we could teach them to read a lot. but that's not enough. there must be an optimized, well thought, tested and open to improvements kind of "basic skills" education, training, something that solves more problems than it might create. we are truly not very smart. it's more like a philosophical problem we don't know the answer yet and I doubt we can solve it anytime soon. Global Income would be the answer, is it? the more I think about these kind of problems, the more I realize I'm just a dumb person who cannot solve problems exceeding my personal space. so I chose to survive, just stay alive and try to have fun...
I think uniqueness and creativity and looking at things from a different point of view are all things that are bred out of us in learning institutions where we are taught by rote.
Every body (and Tesla) keep talking about the actuator lifting up a piano. I don't think it is impressive if the SPEED is not disclosed. A cheap chinese actuator can lift that much, but slowly
Buy any cheap Chinese crap and it’ll fall apart on days!!
@@akira28shima32 not everything China is crap. Open any equipment supposedly made in Europe or US and more often than not you'll find a number of Chinese components..
I am not sure that piano lifting is intended for the bot. They wanted the bot to be non-threatening, so it is designed to be slower and weaker than a human. I think that the piano may have been a talking point. In principle it is no different to a car jack but answers the question: 'What if we wanted stronger within the same body?'
Since the piano was moving while the music was being played I think you can get an idea of the speed. I would like to know what the power draw was for that demo.
Grrr. I wanted a link to the video so I could watch it without CC...