TeslaBot's Knee Was DESIGNED IN 2014! How Tesla Evolves Cutting-Edge Research. With Scott Walter
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- Опубликовано: 13 окт 2022
- It turns out that Dennis Hong and his students at RoMeLa labs (at Virginia Tech then) produced the TeslaBot's knee way back in 2014! While doing their groundbreaking work on THOR (Tactical Hazardous Operations Robot), they developed many of the base components seen in Optimus during AI Day 2022--and they even published work on it! Dr. Scott Walter takes his robotics expertise and helps us understand why the knee and ankle joints are so important, and what Dr. Hong and his students at UCLA are doing with Tesla now to evolve and improve Teslabot's design!
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2013 Tweet from RoMeLa: romelaucla/status...
2014 THOR article: ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/... 
Наука
We both had a bout of scotoma (pronounced; Scott-Oh-Man!). The answer was literally in front of our eyes, and we could not see it. The meaning of THOR: Tactical Hazardous Operations Robot.
Thank you! I added that to the description as well :)
Dennis and the Collaborators. Good band.
The joints are just off the shelf spherical joints/rod ends used in steering and suspension and heaps of farm machinery. They have a Teflon liner the ball rests on. Some have a grease nipple on the larger joints
What I should have also pointed out is the Hoekens Linkage does not scale really well. That is the proportions must remain at 2.5 for any size to maintain the linear curve for the drive unit. But the Optimus Linkage has not such restriction, hence each link can have a unique length, and thus the design is easier to optimize, or make compact.
Many, many thanks Dr. Scott and Dr. Gibbs for this very educational video. It revived my interest in robotics. You both make a great team to dissect the technology behind Teslabot mind and body.
Loved this, thank you.
It’s hard to stop thinking in a pre bot way. e.g. bot needs lubrication? First image to mind is human with oil can. Only later do you realise that it will be bot (self or other) with oil can. ALL bot maintenance will be performed by bot. And if bot needs to leave station an identical bot steps in. Zero interruption to task.
Elastance vs. Compliance
Opposites, most people think elastane = stretchable. Actually it means resistance to stretching. Compliance is stretchability. Elastane speaks more to springing back.
Pls this man should apply to work for Tesla he would become a huge advantage to Tesla bot team
Thanks Scott and Dr K. Another impressively deep dive into the knee joint. I'm sure that one day I was playing with meccano and found that linear oscillation joint by accident when I was about 11 years old. Didn't realise I could have had a paper out of it ! lol it nice to see, yet again, incremental improvement by Tesla over peer reviewed submissions.
Pardon my unsolicited advice, If you hired an editor and had some segments of voice over- your videos could take off and still keep the same depth of detail. Thank you for these, one way or another I'm still watching.
Really interesting explanation on achieving adequate range of motion. My question is about actuator responsiveness. One can achieve motion similar to humans, and it would seem the second step is to respond in the same practical time frames as a human. Humans can take a sensory input and create a motor unit response in the 200-300 ms range. Do the kinds of actuators discussed have similar, or even better, responsiveness? I realize that part of the latency would be sensory and computational, but that is likely the smallest component. Again, keep em coming.
The responsiveness will be much faster than humans, and be able to react to stimuli in 10 ms or less. The mid-sized linear motors can slew end-to-end in 10 ms. More than fast enough to catch a fall.
Connecting the Dots sounded just like Tony Seba!! Upvoted!!!
At minute 37 where you are talking about the actuator and the intermediate lever becoming parallel and binding up you aren't taking into consideration that the intermediate lever is bent and there is still good leverage between the pivot points.
Why is there no mention of cost/mile?
Finally , A definition of an actuator. Everyone says they are motors but I knew they must be a motor with a gear set. The gear in this case is a screw.
But my question is what look like it standing up straight? Or will it forever look like they have bent knees
I really like the Video but imagine This stop your green line where it connects to the yellow line extend your yellow line beyond the blue dot hinge point the other direction the same link so your yellow line becomes twice as long with the blue dot the hinge in the middle then you can use to Small actuators with the same performance but in a smaller package
Thank you thank you thank you both! I've been trying to visualize the motion of the four bar linkage in the knee since AI day. It is still hard to imagine that the force curve is so flat as the knee bends.
A wild idea:
I have a question about Tesla Bot feet. Why not borrow from animal kingdom and use same parts for Bot hands and feet ?
Some chimps have opposable toes on their feet, so why not use Bot’s hands as it’s feet as well ?
The opposable toe/thumb gives the foot much more stability.
The opposable toe, allows the bot to hang from bars and other structures, may be a good skill for manufacturing etc.
And the feet would be another set of available hands to pick rings up etc.
Also using the hand for the foot eliminates a part and creates more mass manufacturing of the hands.
So how about a Tesla Bot arm and a Nuralink chip as the ultimate prosthetic for an amputee?
👍
Designed I. 2014? Aren’t there prosthetic knees with the same mechanics?
Will Optimus have enough range of motion to get up off the floor if it falls?
The discussion about knee joint range of motion got me thinking about this. As a general use robot, it is going to fall and will need to be able to get back up on its own. Can it do that with a knee that has limited range of motion? It seems we all want to rush to walking, but it seems the first task should be to get to a standing position from every possible prone position (back, front, side).
Good Point. Might not recover the way you and I do, but probably will figure it out. As we get older we are taught new methods of recovering from a fail, because of lost range of motion.
Wonder if latest leg prosthetics will be applicable? They are extremely energy efficient.
So that means that the robot can't knee down to pick up something?
Now you got me thinking even more about technology that I know artificial muscle yes you could instead of actuators use an artificial muscle yeah and the argument might be there that that will still be an actuator only thing though is the artificial muscle would be much faster in response
Eventually designers engineers will use the human body to inspire there memic of nature parts. Let million of years of evolution be your guide robotist. It's the eventual optimal design, why fight it. Let DOJO figure out how to build it for you. Humans build 1, then Bot will take it over from there. The machine that builds the machine.
It is also essential for sex robots in the future, so they have to go down that route anyway sooner or later.
I think you may need more range in the knee to climb steep stairs?
On stupid requirements: It's not a fully humanoid robot unless it has articulated toes. But if you can make them a million times faster and a million times cheaper if they don't have any toes because you've designed a robot that can build 99.99% of itself and it's parts without human help, then it's better than a fully humanoid robot. We can worry about toes after we've built 100 million robots.
In most companies: Step one - question requirements. Step two - get fired
Step three - work for Tesla
KISS as a design principle is fine but I want to propose KEE - Keep Everything Easy.
Why do the actuators on Optimus come in apposing pairs? For example the actuators both on the thigh and shin. In a human, the muscles have to be in opposing pairs because muscles can only pull - they can't push. But the linear actuators on Optimus CAN push as well as pull. So why do they need both? Surely they could remove almost half the actuators on Optimus. The best part is no part.
To control two rotations. Together is ankle pitch. Opposite is ankle roll.
@@goingballisticmotion5455 Perhaps for the shin but the thigh only needs one actuator for the knee.
The hip/leg joints need to splay sideways as well as forwards, plus spinal side-to-side to effectively extend the upper legs differentially.
@@paulrautenbach Correct. There is only one for the knee (quad). The other is for the hip flexion (hamstring).
@@imconsequetau5275 Oh, OK Thanks.
I wonder if Dennis has seen this?
It makes so much sense when Neurolink will be using these limbs to help people with missing parts walk again.
Comparison with audio animatronics, yeah please! Disney also has a lot of interesting papers and videos on robotics
Surprised that there is no toe. Maybe a future addition for improved stability.
Toes are over-rated for walking. However, a flexible toe box I could see to maintain better contact during the toe-off part of a stride. Early days still, with so much room for innovation.
Will Optimus be strong enough not to fall?
The development version of Optimus moved very slowly. That indicates that its actuators are too weak.
One consequence of being that weak is that you can't parry sudden balance problems.
The new Optimus, with Tesla developed actuators, might be stronger. It would be interesting to see if it can move at normal speed, and not just in slow motion.
And to see how it handles a sudden balance problem event.
I don’t think slow=weak. But your point that it will need to move quickly enough to keep balance is valid. Can this be done without using electrohydrolics like Boston Dynamics? I think so, but Optimus hasn’t proved that yet.
Don't confuse speed with acceleration. The new Optimus seems to pack some punch when it comes to torque. What is critical is rapid response to a perturbation, not the maximum speed.
Well the robot will lubricate himself.
Tesla’s third quarter Financial result will be above estimates. Also Tesla might announce Stock Buyback Program. Like Apple did a few years ago.
System Integration: Why the 2nd generation robot could not do as much walking as the first generation robot at AI day 2. Even though the 2nd generation robot had brilliantly engineered/designed/manufactured joints and actuators the pile of parts requires system integration testing and that takes time. What we saw at AI day 2 was a work in process with incomplete system integration. So, the optimus robot prototype gets a grade of "incomplete" rather than "failure" even though at the time of AI day 2 it could not walk. If after a year (from now) the end state of the parts was still "not walking" and "never walked" it would be a complete failure and embarassment to Elon Musk. As it is, it looks like it should sucessfully complete system integration and be a useful programable robot in a humanoid form factor.
Phew, I think that puts into explicit words the unspoken intuition we all have about AI day 2.
Not to mention, it's kind of bad form to write an article decrying your former endeavors while begging people to pay attention to your new ones. Why should anyone listen to someone the claims to have been so dramatically wrong before about speculative technology?
Perhaps Musk should have purchased Boston Dynamics...
They can't do better than the human knee? That is one of the most fragile and inefficient designs ever.
For the life of me, I don't understand the fascination of making a robot look and move like a human being.
Try this experiment: tomorrow, make a list of all the animals you come across in your life - squirrels, rabbits, dogs, cats, etc.
So how many of them walked on 2 legs? Of course, the answer is ZERO. Walking on 2 legs is a horrible way to move - yet robots seem to be designed to be very inefficient in walking/running.
And if you are designing a robot from scratch, why on earth have feet? Why not something like a paw like all the other creatures you came across while watching from them?
Maybe the robot geeks just lack some common sense?
The easiest way to replace human jobs is to create human like robots
While it would be possible to build a “centaur bot” with 4 legs and 2 arms, building one that will move at human speed would result in a lower body that takes up quite a bit of space. It may be that such a robot would be useful, but it would have to have accommodations to work in the current world.
Velociraptor
Humans are fine with two legs. Human doesn't need to be as fast or agile as certains animals. This is probably applies more for Tesla bots. It is not mean to run. The ability to walk at a pace above a tortoise is enough. Something as agile as Boston Dynamic is heavy and lacks energy efficiency. I am sure there are better reasons to why two-legged is good enough.
@@nguyep4 What is the purpose of the robot? Well, in the case of Tesla, it's to replace folks working on a job with robots that can work cheaper and longer. Is this a worthwhile goal? I don't think so.
What do we do with the unemployed folks whose job no longer exists? Put them on welfare and give them food stamps - that we all pay for?
A 4 legged robot will not replace a human at their job. There are plenty of tasks the robot can do but replacing a human at a cheaper rate is not one of them.
Damn. Tesla fans really squeezing the bot concept to the max for views 😂
Lets be honest, the bot is not THAT. Impressive
Because you don't want to believe in what it can be. Like many others, it is just a high school project. You have a choice, you don't watch the content that doesn't suit you. Such a novel idea, huh? Lol
@@nguyep4 Wrong. I don't have to "believe" anything. I know exactly what it's going to be.
I know what Optimus will result in in the long term. I know the technical challenges involved. I know the sheer amount of competence needed in all the different fields involved.
I am not impressed by this specific version of the bot because it is in fact not impressive.
I will probably be impressed by the next version which they showed but couldn't demonstrate.
I am however impressed by the pace of development and their approach to solve the different problems.
On an engineering level, it's appealing, and that's exactly what AI Day 2022 was for: Impressing engineers.
But from a utility point of view, not impressing.
For good reasons.
However, when youtubers make a bunch of videos about Optimus and clickbait and shill and what not, it's kind of annoying.
They do it for views.
what's your relevant qualification?
I on the other hand am impressed, I am a programmer by trade and I run my own lab/shop in my spare time (CNC, Lathe, Mill, 3D Printers).
You really have to miss all the important details to think its unimpressive.
@@bloodaid you seem to know more because you have technical background? Well, that is your opinion of progression. Doesn't mean it will go as you suggested. Didn't the space industry laugh at SpaceX? Are they laughing now? Didn't the CEOs of the auto industry laugh at Tesla? What are they doing now? These people thought they have all the answers but they were proven wrong. Tesla bot might take decades but it will never get there if they don't try.
Even if he is doing it for clicks, which is just your opinion, you are not required to watch it. But have you thought he is passionate about Tesla's ambition, goals and the thought of what Tesla bot could become fascinates him?
Your hubris, it will never work - a common limiter.
@@nguyep4 what you or I think does not change the outcome of the bot.
I don’t know who laughed at who, and I don’t care.
Underestimating Elons capabilitiy to execute is stupid.