CNC Machined vs 3D Printed Cycloidal Drive
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2022
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Parts list (check website article for full list, affiliate links):
Amazon.com:
6mm Steel Cylinder Rod: amzn.to/3POEqfr
8mm Bushings : amzn.to/3Jnbk4x
Bearing 35x47x7 6807-2RS: amzn.to/3fATTgL
AliExpress:
6mm Steel Cylinder Rod: alii.pub/6f4xwg
8mm Bushings: alii.pub/6f4vt7
Bearing 35x47x7 6807-2RS: alii.pub/66b1tw
In this video, we will take a look at my new updated version of the cycloidal drive that I made in the previous video, with 19:1 reduction ratio and see how it performs made with CNC machined parts versus made with 3D printed parts.
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Those parametric equations would've been a HUGE help to me and my design team a couple months ago XD. We were using a lengthier method to create some 3-D printed cycloidal disks for a robotics project. Glad to see this method though! Saving this video for future reference :)
Glad I could help!
I made a cycloidal for the gearboxes of a robot arm for my capstone mechanical engineering project. They are nice because it's easy to have the reducer on the robotic arm and it looks good too. Great video. Thanks for taking the time and presenting it.
Yeah, cycloidal drivers can be great choice for robotic arms builds.
this is a really interesting comparison. I wonder what the best of both worlds would be. If you just put the cnc cyclodial disks or maybe other parts in the 3d printed version I wonder if its power/weight ratio would beat out the other 2 alone
Going through the CAD design for a cycloidal drive was very helpful. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful! Cheers!
As both motors were skipping, I was really curious about the internal damage caused. Sad that you didn't show that. I'd love it even more if you would maybe replace the top with acrylic to see what's going on inside
Skipping doesn't cause any damage, as is something steppers do exactly to avoid damage
@@Flashbang_Photo I don't think the stepper was skipping, I think the drive was skipping. The only experiment where the motor was skipping was with the small motor and the machined drive. The backlash was too large for the motor to be the one skipping in the other tests, imo
@@m.sierra5258
If this drive skips, it is permanently broken (as most gear boxes are). The skipping was the stepper motor reaching its torque limit and losing steps. Btw. that's not something steppers do to avoid damage, it's just something that happens when the torque limit is reached (which is defined by the current to motors get, which in turn is set by the stepper driver).
@@superdau where does the max torque difference between the printed and machined box then come from? I don't see how the ratio would differ. Or is plastic just that much more lossy?
@@m.sierra5258 The plastic can't transfer all the torque to the stick. Some of the torque is lost due to the plastic giving up, as the damage at the end showed. Other materials than PLA might hold up better.
You should definitely do a video on how you've setup your printer. Your prints are great looking!
Wow that's some crazy 3d printing on those dowel pins and screws
I have been trying to make an almost 100% 3d printed planetary gear box with good efficiency. And I've already noticed a huge difference between gear generator softwares. I think that's how youtuber Paul gold got 30 Newton meters of torque out of a smaller stepper with a 3d printed cyclodial gear. Your measurements of a 1 to 3 decrease in performance Is significant. I would love if Paul measured the efficiency too. But beggars can't be choosers. Love the video!!!
Thanks for the input!
Wow. I'm so glad I discovered your channel. Excellent resource and very insightful. Thank you ... 🇬🇧
Welcome!
This is really good because it tells me that it's a really nice design and it's far to many components to be a low cost solution for a budget product, which is good info.
The housings on these should have some sort of mounting flanges on them; clamping them as was done in this video shows that the housings themselves move up and down, implying that all forces aren’t being transferred to the load.
Cycloidal drives are super interesting, you should do this video format for a planetary gear drive build next. Keep going mate, great content and already subscribed : ]
Thank you and welcome!
I tried SF1 bushings at one point too (and HK needle bearings before that), but nowadays I press PTFE tube into brass tube to make low-friction bushings whatever length I want and without any seam. Although it is fairly time consuming cutting and deburring a large number of tubes to precise length, even with a tubing cutter. And not all PTFE tubes are concentric, so it can be trouble finding a good supplier.
A lathe may be ideal for that kind of precision cutting
@@PhantomBlank Was gonna say that, get PTFE tubes with greater wall thickness, smaller ID bigger OD, machine, broach & sand to spec, so you get cheaper materials and greater accuracy, problem solved.
Nicely explained with a good project. 👍
I think CNC's product gives better results rather than printing machine. Printing machine's product are of PBC which are worne out at the rubbing areas and can malfunction due to clearance where as the CNC machine's product are of metal and by greasing it can give a better results in comparison to printing product.
Amazing mechanical design.... Thanks for the video !
U can use 3MF file format instead of STL. It can store more info with smaller size.
worth waiting for your new video
Hi, You are great to teach about CNC. Congratulations.
Great video. Nice testing experiments. 👍
I think it would also help to use sturdier material for 3D printed parts. I personally use polycarbonate for these high stress parts, as PLA is softer and it can wear quite easily.
Thanks for the input!
What head and bed temp you are using on polycarbonate ? I am just curious to buy and try PC too
@@dzitiatri I use default Prusaslicer values, it works really well.
Try carbon fiber nylon too, if you can.
And you could probably do well with carbon fiber PETG, it is amazingly stiff!
I startet printing polycarbonate and it works very nice! I use 110°C bed and 290°C nozzle and a polycarbonate sheet as print plate.
awesome build
"it's a precision drive" then "let's grind it with a dremel" JK lol. Great work man!
😁
These cycloidal drive reduction drives are very interesting.
I wonder about their capacity work at increasing motor speed. Essentially driving the unit from the output shaft, to increase the drive of the input shaft.
An example would be a centrifugal supercharger where the input shaft might be driven to say 6000rpm, but the output might need to be 100,000rpm.
This is the best Cycloidal Drive i saw, so far.
Beautiful motor! I've been looking for something for a DIY coffee grinder. How much did the metal motor cost from PCBWay?
Fine job , thanks bro for sharing the details info 💕
I noticed a few times you had issues with the powder coating. You can specify that it should be to drawing dimensions after the coating is applied to avoid oversizing the part and keeping it to your tolerances in the drawing.
Many congratulations!
how much was the cost of the CNC parts?
Very cool project, always fun to assemble your own cnc'd parts!
Very nice project
Congrats from 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
I used to work at a company that made those kinds of planar polymer bearing/bushings and they are almost exclusively made to be pressfit into a tight fit bore. Maybe a design iteration would be to get a ground thin walled tube and pressfit the bushes into them. Also those kinds of contact surfaces should be hardened and ground to a fine surface finish. Obviously not super easy to do but better gearbox life
first thing i noticed. Those bushings are not designed for his use. The "oversized" measurement is as it should be to have a tight fit. Even the inner diameter is too lose as long as they are not pressed into a bore. You can see it at 12:01 with your bare eye, that the bushings have radial play on the shafts...
Thanks for the input. Yeah I realized that a bit late, and also they ware easily available.
Very good - thanks for making and sharing the video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Fantastic effort I love it! :)
Thank you! Cheers!
I made the original 3d printed version of this a while ago and it served me well but it was an utter pain in the ass to assemble.
Amazing channel!! Great work!!
Thank you! Cheers!
Very educational video!
super cool, i'd like to make one as well.
Помню этот редуктор ещё по советским альбомам редукторов, но только теперь понял как он работает.
because it has low/zero backlash this type of mechanism probably can be used for star-trackers and guiders too.
Love watching it!
Check out my favorite 3D printers, the K1 Max: amzn.to/3txQUC6 or if you are on a budget, the Ender-3 V3 SE: amzn.to/3FkCPus
I hope you enjoyed this video and learned something new! If you'd like to support me making more content like this, please consider supporting me on Patreon: www.patreon.com/howtomechatronics
@How To Mechatronics: Hello, I want to buy the Solidworks for Makers and use your 20% discount, but unfortunatelly the link doesn't work for applying the discount - do you have a discount code, which I can use?
@@kaiseraugustus1393 Hey, please check the links in the description again, I've just updated them with the special 20% off discount offer.
Do you have a website with write up of this?
@@HowToMechatronics Hi.. Are you available right now?
hey man i am expert in pcb designing so if you need my service i can work for you i need some work
i do pcb designing multiple layers
I learned a lot - thank you! (And I love Solidworks)
Glad it was helpful!
you could add 2 more disks thinner and lighter at a 90 degree angle to the others for a superior longer lasting one.
You are mechatronics Gladiator 💪
as always very very interesting! thanks for sharing
Glad you enjoyed it!
i am wondering of there is also a reduction in noise in between them
Can you characterize the thermal differences with extended use?
Great video ❤️… i have a question, how did you make that animation of the object splitting in many piece at timesstamp 0:47
Greetings from the company that manufactures these gearboxes. 👋🏻
I work at Sumitomo Cyclo in Germany.
I wold really like to see a comparison with a planetary gear of the same reduction (probably needs to be 2-stage). At the same outside dimensions a planetary gear would be a beast.
Yeah, that would be an interesting comparison. I might make one. Cheers!
I have a sleeping problem and this video have helped ;)
Could you do this with strain wave gear / harmonic drive?
Its be interesting to see a mostly 3d printed housing, bearing cartridge etc but with a cnc input and output shaft and cyclodal disk. Try and reduce some of the mass of the cnc
Yeah, that's a good point. A combination of the two versions would be best solution for some DIY projects. The cycloidal disks are most important in this case I think and they can be made out of some metal material, in combination with some metal rollers.
does the 15% loss in output occurs as sound, vibration, and heating? if so, where in the mechanism is most of the loss occurring? to improve efficiency or at least to improve durability at speed under load, what kind of mitigation would be beneficial? Would cooling be necessary during prolonged use?
Regarding modeling technique; is there a reason why not a 0 to 2pi/(number lobes) and a radial symmetry by number of lobes? is that to avoid surface modeling lines? coming from a Catia V5 modeling experience. gap with a spline just irks me and probably is creating some odd tribology down stream.
Hola. Exelente proyecto. Quería saber si es posible realizar este mismo proyecto con la combinación de impresora 3d y cnc láser co2, máquinas de escritorio. Combinado con pla y mdf, madera o acrílico. La idea es hacer robótica a una escala más grande. Pero con materiales más económicos como el mdf y Pla. Para realizar una caja de engranajes de reducción de velocidad y ganar más fuerza con los motores. Muchas gracias por tu trabajo es una inspiración para todos.
Very nice design and presentation.
Thank you! Cheers!
You are back!
Yeah, I guess I'm back with each new video. 😅
I like how you say "distance ring", as opposed to "SPACER!!" @IvanMiranda
How To Mechatronics should be fined each time he missed an opportunity to say *SPACER.*
It was still a great video even though there wasn't enough SPACERs in it.
How can you tell the parts were "exactly the same as in the "project"? I haven't seen micrometer in your hand to check it:)
Does the model currently up have the clearance built in you were talking about?
after seeing the failure of the threaded inserts at 18:17, I had to look at my own design and question whether the inserts would fail for a 13 Nm application on the output shaft, however in looking back I realized that you only had the torque distributed on two pins for that whole load rather than the whole 6 pins available. This leaves me more hopeful? I'll comment back on this whether I get significant plastic deformation for my version as well.
What is the cost of all CNC parts?
the fact he didn't disclose it in the video says enough :-) (he's sponsored. if he was not, it would have been extremely costly :-) )
I paid around 60 usd to make a single shaft coupling approx 50*50*25mm with them. I have yet to receive it though, I hope it will fit otherwise it would money wasted.
At this part count, I would guess around $600 to $1000 US.
I'd say around 1500-2000usd (source: I'm a prototype machinist)
The undercut of the main housing and the two flats on the eccentric shaft adapter add complexity to it. If you wanted the gears to be high precision then I'd recommend using 4140 prehard (versus jig grinding, which would be more accurate but much more expensive), not stainless steel. That way you could also use better/harder bushings (drill bushings) which would increase performance significantly without increasing cost significantly. Fill it up with some sticky grease and boom!
Ya, custom CNC is expensive. Unless u have your own.
Apologies if this has been answered already. How backdrivable is the cnc machined version? Thanks for this great work!
You never stop to amaze us 👍👍👍
Thanks!
Good collab! I'm curious about how much a quote for those parts would total. I understand quotes are temporary for good reasons, but a ballpark would be nice.
jlcpcb > pcbway
@@JoeTaber About $700 for 15 pieces with DHL courier service.
@@PCBWay well, I submitted a quote for a set of parts. Guess that answers that. Ooof.
Perhaps having the drives filled with some transmission fluid might help with the gear slipping/damage.
I have a great application for those gearboxes. What about a motorized telescope mount? I'd love to have some ultra-low backlash, high-torque actuators to make one...
Maybe a flexure is better for small stuff
@@yelectric1893 a small...telescope?
@@chiraz111 Oh.. Youre right. I was assuming a little one with a 5" lens tops.
Amazing video!
Thanks!
Hi Franco, I work for Sumitomo and we are the inventor of Cyclo drive System. If you are interested we can describe the advantage of this principle compared to other system. Thanks.
great topic, thanks 👍
Glad you liked it!
Fill that gearbox with oil, see how much that will increase the torque. there must be signifcant friction with all those loose bushings.
Интересная конструкция. Чем она лучше или хуже обычной планетарной передачи?
I bet you would get different results if the motor was more secure. Those clamps still let the motor twist thus losing energy. Also a piece of steel instead of plywood should help 😉
i think the backlash might also be because the pins are only fastened from one side of the disks
I wish you would include cost for each version
You could try using drill bushings instead, they are pretty accurate if a bit expensive. Otherwise if PCBWay is sponsoring you might as well just order some custom lol, I've ordered hardened 440C bushings from them and they came out quite accurate too.
Thank for the input!
Yeah installing bearings with a hammer might not initially show failure but the little dents caused in the raceways will wear the bearing out quickly
thanks
How much did the CNC version order cost?
the measuring was a little bit weak compared to your overall effort
Love it
AWESOME!
Thanks!
Wonderful!
Thank you! Cheers!
Can you make video on open pnp cnc?
I need a sprocket or something that can work with a motor and bicycle axle. For my e-bike build. In Florida
Can you get the same mechanical and electrical properties with 3D printed material?
I'm amazed the wood beam didn't slip of the scale and smash into your knuckles
haha I've never thought about it. I guess it's all about experience. 😀
Wow thanks❤
You should lubricate the bushings and test again. You're losing a fair amount to friction.
I know you did them both the same so you could test the material against eachother with the same dimensions but if someone wanted to make a strong 3d printed version, all you would have to do is make all the engagement points at least twice as thick.
That's right.
What is it that is skipping inside the gearbox once it reaches max torque?
Super video, thank you !
Do you know somebody who sells all parts as a set ?
yours sincerly
Sven
What is the name of the device you used to measure at 0:29?
Also, for these parts from PCBway, I'm curious, how much did this cost?
Thanks!
Thank you!
good job! A question, why do you need bushings around the cylinder, wouldn't the cycloidal gears just roll on the pins (assuming the right size)? Bushings shouldn't be moving should they?
The bushings should move, that's rolling and it would produce less friction than the cycloidal disk sliding on the pins directly. Also they can be replaced more easy if they out.
Was it expensive to get those parts manufactured by PCBWay ?
Hi I’m not an engineer or scientist just a fan
After watching your video with commercials Very well done I applaud you…
Could this device replace the clockwork of my telescope mount in that it has minimal backlash?
Harmonic gearboxes are used on the more expensive mounts and have zero backlash.
I wonder if with some patience, you could CNC the aluminum parts with one of those inexpensive 3018 CNCs?
Not strong enough for the appropriate speeds and feeds to get a good finish.
@@Shocker99 not to mention that a lot of the features in those parts would require a CNC lathe or some other 4/5 axis CNC machine and as far as I'm aware 4th/5th axis hobby CNC builds are rare and currently unable to produce parts like this (accuracy, holding forces, etc.)
compared to planetary gear, can it be comparable?
BTW. great video!
Thanks! Sure, it can be comparable, each have it's own pros and cons. I guess I could make a comparison video for those two types.
Why don't you do the same video for planetary gearbox
Cool