One reason I heard about running flowthrough cans on manual actions is to allow the can and barrel to not heat up as much/fast as you aren't trapping those gasses in for it to soak into the rifle system. As for not running any silencer, one could argue you get less mirage from that heat if you aren't running a cover/shade.
Well said! The only con I can think of, for bolt guns, is the additional length to the rifle system. Depending on terrain, like the woods here in the North East, it’s another thing for bang into the branches. No free lunch, but that seems like small cost. 😊
For what it's worth my new gen 2 ruger american ranch with a Resonator K is almost identical in length to my henry 30-30 with the octagon barrel. I hunt upper new England woods and the length of that setup is still very manageable in the brush. 🙂
Another great video! I tend to see smaller group sizes on paper when running a rifle suppressed. Whether that is due to lower recoil from the additional weight/braking action of the suppressor, dampened barrel harmonics from placing the weight at the end of the barrel, reduced anticipation from less noise, all of these things, none of these things, or something else entirely, I don't know. I run suppressors on more rifles than I thought I would. At first it was just for sound suppression. A 22 pistol is so much fun to shoot surpressed. So is a 17HMR rifle. Suppressing a 5.56 AR is a game changer. Adding a little precision to my centerfire bolt action rifles when shooting them suppressed was an unexpected, happy bonus.
Some of my buddies and I were at brewery discussing this very topic last Saturday. we couldn't find any reason not to run one for long range bolt guns. Granted they have way more knowledge when it comes to ballistics than I do. I just like fun things lol
Completely changes recoil impulse. Not as effective at reducing recoil as a good muzzle brake. IF you need to spot your own hits/misses, you absolutely use a GOOD muzzle brake. If you want to have a good time or show off to friends/newbies... put on a suppressor. =)
people shot flow throughs as they function more like a brake. The area 419 suppressor can be configured as a brake/sup. You lose a ton of sound suppressor, but have a FAR more efficient braking action. Long range shooters care less about sound than they do about spotting trace and impact. The lighter the rifle and the greater the distance the more important a strong braking action becomes. Several online mediums have tested the recoil reduction of a brake vs a suppressor(MDT and Gavin to mention a few). The difference is significant. This is accentuated by a light rifle. If a strong wind exists at 1000+ yards and you dont land on paper(most scopes would have a hard time seeing a hole in paper at 1000+, but maybe im just old), the amount of rock you had shooting from a tripod would make it very difficult to spot the trace/POI. Without that information (or a spotter) the chances of milling a second shot is low. Its a game of information. **possibly unpopular opinion** I will take the information over the comfort of sound suppression in a game where the most informed person wins. *Im a long range shooter, Im not a pro(or even close), im not attacking anyone or their opinion, i shot suppressed sometimes for the comfort of others against my better judgement, whatever works for you is S tier, I have referred to people shooting unsuppressed in an indoor range as "uncivilized"* Love you guys and keep on getting better and dont mistake my comments for a "hot take" as they arent. Just one old guys experiences over the last 10+ years.
1:54 You kind of hit on what I was just about to say.... Obviously you are not a match guy. =) Personally I only use cans on small cartridges, think 6.5 grendel and down. Every so often on 6.5 CM when teaching someone new. The problem with suppressors for match guns and precision rifles, they change the recoil impulse and slow the impulse down... instead of a quick impulse, slapping a big 30 cal can on a 300 PRC, or 6.5 PRC, changes the recoil to a prolonged push. Because this impulse is longer, it means you have that much less time to spot your own shot or trace. Not an issue as much shooting 1 mile, but it is an issue shooting inside 1,000 yards. This is why made folks are switching back to 6.5 CM for PRS because the faster 6mm cartridges are not leaving enough time to spot the trace. A GOOD muzzle brake is going to be MORE effective than almost any suppressor... and will let you get back on target faster than with a suppressor. And THAT is also an answer as to why some shooters who do decide to compete or shoot with suppressed bolt guns are putting on high flow through cans, versus something like Nomad L, Resonator R2, or any of the new "super quiet" 30 cal cans. Go ahead and test it yourself... shoot 10 rounds or so of 6.5 PRC or better yet a 300 WM or something of that class with a Suppressor.... and then replace it with a Fat Bastard, Hellfire, Jetblast, or any other higher end muzzle brake. Don't get me wrong, it is super awesome to shoot a 300 PRC with a Nomad L and not need to use hearing protection... and for hunting it is a different story.... but for when you need to be able to see your shots... using a suppressor is nowhere near a good brake. And of course... you are not using a Barrel Tuner with a suppressor. =)
Usually for most guns there is a POI shift, usually it’s so small you don’t see it, but long range you will, so if you want to keep your zero at long distances always run suppressed or always don’t, stay consistent and so will your groupings
Using a suppressor on my bolt guns makes them shoot much better. Reduced recoil, blast, and spotting my impacts. I shot my .300 WM so much better when I put a can on it.
Sound Suppressors can increase the accuracy through a couple of means. The obvious one mentioned is dampening the harmonics of the barrel. The one few people seem to know about is the suppressor very efficiently strips high velocity propellant gases away from the base of the bullet, which reduces the kick the bullet gets as it leaves the barrel crown, which in turn reduces the yaw of the bullet, which increases accuracy. It is possible for a suppressor to degrade accuracy as well. This is generally dependent on the design and shape of the baffle stack. Asymmetric baffles create turbulence and gas jets that can push the bullet around. For accuracy, the most important baffle is the blast baffle. A symmetrical blast baffle will produce the best accuracy.
Make sure to buy a quality suppressor or quality muzzle brake and make it super tight. Then there's a good chance you're increasing accuracy by decreasing the turbulent gasses behind the bullet as it leaves the barrel.
Generally, on my shorter guns my suppressors make my barrels more accurate. I have two barrels (13.9” and 14.5”) that won’t group sub MOA unless the suppressor is on. On my 18” AR15 and AR10 the suppressor doesn’t hurt the accuracy and keeps the break/comp blast down considerably.
Rob, great video and great content. I prefer to shoot all my gun suppressed. 1 thing I have noted though, on my precision bolt gun, it seems to cause the barrel to heat up quicker and have slight stringing more quickly than unsuppressed. That being said, I still shoot suppressed because for me the pros out weight that small con
My top 3 are: Stress reduction when shooting small Dust mitigation, not so much signature reduction as it is saving my high dollar optics. And noise pollution. This is for both my kids who may or may not have a good fit with their ear muffs and for neighbors in the area.
My Area 419 hellfire brake cuts the recoil much more than my suppressor does. I'd rather run a brake at matches vs suppressed. Being able to spot my shots is very important for NRL hunter
Any recommendations for a short, lightweight suppressor for a bolt action mountain rifle? Adding my "light" 9.6 oz Nomad Ti to my 22" Proof barrel significantly throws off the balance, and increases the length. I may be looking for a unicorn, but I can't seem to find anything much lighter/shorter when you include the Direct Thread adapter... I thought the AB Raptor 4/2 was my solution until I called them and found out it was 9.5 oz.
Suppressors in fact will give more felt recoil then quality muzzle brakes. also suppressors on precision guns get hot and cause mirage at distance. the muzzle velocity increase if any is not enough to change anything. Look at PRS matches and youll see more brakes then cans by far. oooooo not to mention F class
A good brake produces better recoil reduction than the best sound suppressors do. When we demo'd cans for the CDN snipers 50 BMG rifles, a number of the snipers got scope kissed pretty bad because the can changed the recoil impulse. Silencers do reduce recoil pretty well though, compared to a bare muzzle or a flash suppressor..
HuxWrx on bolt actions - I’m one of those guys, I’m guessing other guys are in the same boat. One suppressor shared between gas and bolt hosts. We are suppressor poor 😢
I’ve noticed in several of your videos you talk about flow through suppressors not being as good at sound suppression compared to standard cans. What do you think of Pew Science’s data? They show HuxWrks Flow cans performing at the top of rankings. They aren’t always the best, but they are up there.
Pew "Science" made up his own testing regimen, which follows none of the recognized methods of sound testing. Anything that he says should be taken w a big grain of salt.
@@Ertactical thank you for the reply! Do you have anything objective that backs this up? I’ve been using Pew Science’s public testing data to evaluate the relative performance of suppressors. Based on that data the HuxWrks Flow cans do very well, especially the 762 Ti. It’s in the top 10 of the 50 or so cans they’ve tested on a mk18 and the differences between cans in that top 10 is very slight, with the exception of something like the PTR Vent 3. I guess I’m mostly curious if this is an across the board observation based on objective data, or if it’s purely subjective, where perhaps the flow through cans don’t “sound as good,” but are performing better than they sound. If that makes sense. Love the channel, please keep the videos coming!
@@avw775Pewscience rates cans on both the muzzle numbers and the at-the-ear numbers. The balance between these helps the flow through cans look better. They are louder at the muzzle but quieter to the shooter. Look for the comparisons they do with the blue and red bars to better explain this
@@quiettime6871 That makes sense. Thanks! Exited to see where suppressor technology goes. PTR Vent series is testing very well. Flow 7.62Ti still doing great for being flow through. It’s current 16th out of 45 for 5.56 cans on PewScience’s rankings. I bet we’ll see those gaps narrow as the tech continues to evolve.
5:32 I suspect that a lot of gunphobia, especially in the female population, would be drastically reduced if non-suppressed firearms were the exception.
I got to borrow my dad's suppressor recently and I ran it on my 6.5 creedmoor for some distance shooting and it changed the game for me completely, I almost don't want to ever shoot with out it
Answer is always yes. Suppress everything!
hahah YES!!
I shoot suppressed on every gun possible, I have dedicated SiCo Evo's on my hunting rifles permanently. Great video!
thank you!! agreed =)
One reason I heard about running flowthrough cans on manual actions is to allow the can and barrel to not heat up as much/fast as you aren't trapping those gasses in for it to soak into the rifle system.
As for not running any silencer, one could argue you get less mirage from that heat if you aren't running a cover/shade.
🤔
Well said! The only con I can think of, for bolt guns, is the additional length to the rifle system. Depending on terrain, like the woods here in the North East, it’s another thing for bang into the branches. No free lunch, but that seems like small cost. 😊
yes i should have mentioned that
@@Ertactical No sweat, ive already learned so much from this channel! I try to comment and such on every video for the algorithm haha. Take care boss
I hunt with either a sigcross .308 or 6.5creed with the Evo and its been manageable. (so far here in MT)
For what it's worth my new gen 2 ruger american ranch with a Resonator K is almost identical in length to my henry 30-30 with the octagon barrel. I hunt upper new England woods and the length of that setup is still very manageable in the brush. 🙂
@@J_D_Rambro love my cross!!
Another great video!
I tend to see smaller group sizes on paper when running a rifle suppressed. Whether that is due to lower recoil from the additional weight/braking action of the suppressor, dampened barrel harmonics from placing the weight at the end of the barrel, reduced anticipation from less noise, all of these things, none of these things, or something else entirely, I don't know.
I run suppressors on more rifles than I thought I would. At first it was just for sound suppression. A 22 pistol is so much fun to shoot surpressed. So is a 17HMR rifle. Suppressing a 5.56 AR is a game changer. Adding a little precision to my centerfire bolt action rifles when shooting them suppressed was an unexpected, happy bonus.
Some of my buddies and I were at brewery discussing this very topic last Saturday. we couldn't find any reason not to run one for long range bolt guns. Granted they have way more knowledge when it comes to ballistics than I do. I just like fun things lol
yes!! always with the can =)
Completely changes recoil impulse. Not as effective at reducing recoil as a good muzzle brake. IF you need to spot your own hits/misses, you absolutely use a GOOD muzzle brake. If you want to have a good time or show off to friends/newbies... put on a suppressor. =)
people shot flow throughs as they function more like a brake. The area 419 suppressor can be configured as a brake/sup. You lose a ton of sound suppressor, but have a FAR more efficient braking action. Long range shooters care less about sound than they do about spotting trace and impact. The lighter the rifle and the greater the distance the more important a strong braking action becomes. Several online mediums have tested the recoil reduction of a brake vs a suppressor(MDT and Gavin to mention a few). The difference is significant. This is accentuated by a light rifle. If a strong wind exists at 1000+ yards and you dont land on paper(most scopes would have a hard time seeing a hole in paper at 1000+, but maybe im just old), the amount of rock you had shooting from a tripod would make it very difficult to spot the trace/POI. Without that information (or a spotter) the chances of milling a second shot is low. Its a game of information. **possibly unpopular opinion** I will take the information over the comfort of sound suppression in a game where the most informed person wins. *Im a long range shooter, Im not a pro(or even close), im not attacking anyone or their opinion, i shot suppressed sometimes for the comfort of others against my better judgement, whatever works for you is S tier, I have referred to people shooting unsuppressed in an indoor range as "uncivilized"* Love you guys and keep on getting better and dont mistake my comments for a "hot take" as they arent. Just one old guys experiences over the last 10+ years.
interesting perspective
1:54 You kind of hit on what I was just about to say.... Obviously you are not a match guy. =) Personally I only use cans on small cartridges, think 6.5 grendel and down. Every so often on 6.5 CM when teaching someone new. The problem with suppressors for match guns and precision rifles, they change the recoil impulse and slow the impulse down... instead of a quick impulse, slapping a big 30 cal can on a 300 PRC, or 6.5 PRC, changes the recoil to a prolonged push. Because this impulse is longer, it means you have that much less time to spot your own shot or trace. Not an issue as much shooting 1 mile, but it is an issue shooting inside 1,000 yards. This is why made folks are switching back to 6.5 CM for PRS because the faster 6mm cartridges are not leaving enough time to spot the trace. A GOOD muzzle brake is going to be MORE effective than almost any suppressor... and will let you get back on target faster than with a suppressor. And THAT is also an answer as to why some shooters who do decide to compete or shoot with suppressed bolt guns are putting on high flow through cans, versus something like Nomad L, Resonator R2, or any of the new "super quiet" 30 cal cans. Go ahead and test it yourself... shoot 10 rounds or so of 6.5 PRC or better yet a 300 WM or something of that class with a Suppressor.... and then replace it with a Fat Bastard, Hellfire, Jetblast, or any other higher end muzzle brake. Don't get me wrong, it is super awesome to shoot a 300 PRC with a Nomad L and not need to use hearing protection... and for hunting it is a different story.... but for when you need to be able to see your shots... using a suppressor is nowhere near a good brake. And of course... you are not using a Barrel Tuner with a suppressor. =)
I did! There was an initial light POI shift but I adjusted the scope at the range to account for this. The thing is now getting it done….suppressed.
love it!
I really like your content, keep up the good work.
thank you =)
Usually for most guns there is a POI shift, usually it’s so small you don’t see it, but long range you will, so if you want to keep your zero at long distances always run suppressed or always don’t, stay consistent and so will your groupings
❤🔥🔥
100%
Using a suppressor on my bolt guns makes them shoot much better. Reduced recoil, blast, and spotting my impacts. I shot my .300 WM so much better when I put a can on it.
YES!!! 😇
Sound Suppressors can increase the accuracy through a couple of means. The obvious one mentioned is dampening the harmonics of the barrel. The one few people seem to know about is the suppressor very efficiently strips high velocity propellant gases away from the base of the bullet, which reduces the kick the bullet gets as it leaves the barrel crown, which in turn reduces the yaw of the bullet, which increases accuracy.
It is possible for a suppressor to degrade accuracy as well. This is generally dependent on the design and shape of the baffle stack. Asymmetric baffles create turbulence and gas jets that can push the bullet around. For accuracy, the most important baffle is the blast baffle. A symmetrical blast baffle will produce the best accuracy.
🇺🇸
😁
7 PRC with 26” MTU contour barrel, Omega 300 with brake end cap. 180gr seeds at 2900 fps, comfortable to shoot for hours.
Fire!! Thanks for your positive feedback and comments.
Make sure to buy a quality suppressor or quality muzzle brake and make it super tight. Then there's a good chance you're increasing accuracy by decreasing the turbulent gasses behind the bullet as it leaves the barrel.
Generally, on my shorter guns my suppressors make my barrels more accurate. I have two barrels (13.9” and 14.5”) that won’t group sub MOA unless the suppressor is on. On my 18” AR15 and AR10 the suppressor doesn’t hurt the accuracy and keeps the break/comp blast down considerably.
NICE!!
Rob, great video and great content. I prefer to shoot all my gun suppressed. 1 thing I have noted though, on my precision bolt gun, it seems to cause the barrel to heat up quicker and have slight stringing more quickly than unsuppressed. That being said, I still shoot suppressed because for me the pros out weight that small con
totally agree!
Great vid!
thank you =)
My top 3 are:
Stress reduction when shooting small
Dust mitigation, not so much signature reduction as it is saving my high dollar optics.
And noise pollution. This is for both my kids who may or may not have a good fit with their ear muffs and for neighbors in the area.
Oh and the noise it makes when you connect with game.
I never shoot unsurpassed now. That's why I bought them, to use.
Hell yea!! Thanks for your positive feedback and comments.
My Area 419 hellfire brake cuts the recoil much more than my suppressor does. I'd rather run a brake at matches vs suppressed. Being able to spot my shots is very important for NRL hunter
interesting, I see some of both out there in PRS matches. Thanks for your positive feedback and comments.
Any recommendations for a short, lightweight suppressor for a bolt action mountain rifle? Adding my "light" 9.6 oz Nomad Ti to my 22" Proof barrel significantly throws off the balance, and increases the length. I may be looking for a unicorn, but I can't seem to find anything much lighter/shorter when you include the Direct Thread adapter... I thought the AB Raptor 4/2 was my solution until I called them and found out it was 9.5 oz.
we will be hitting this topic soon as hunting season is coming!
Looks like a skyline in a sci-fi movie.
hahah its a funny looking can. Thanks for your positive feedback and comments.
Suppressors in fact will give more felt recoil then quality muzzle brakes. also suppressors on precision guns get hot and cause mirage at distance. the muzzle velocity increase if any is not enough to change anything. Look at PRS matches and youll see more brakes then cans by far. oooooo not to mention F class
I think we could have a debate over this hahah but interesting perspective and thank you for sharing
A good brake produces better recoil reduction than the best sound suppressors do. When we demo'd cans for the CDN snipers 50 BMG rifles, a number of the snipers got scope kissed pretty bad because the can changed the recoil impulse. Silencers do reduce recoil pretty well though, compared to a bare muzzle or a flash suppressor..
HuxWrx on bolt actions - I’m one of those guys, I’m guessing other guys are in the same boat. One suppressor shared between gas and bolt hosts. We are suppressor poor 😢
hahah well if its what you have than i get it. Thanks for your positive feedback and comments.
I have a OCL OCM5 on my 18” SPR AR15. And it’s amazing. But then someone with a 308 always sets up next to me.
haha I know that feeling... the OCM5 is killer!
I love it so much that I built a 12.5” Gordon inspired rifle just so I could use it even more.
So do you find that one brand compared to another brand is better for a long range shooting? And does it matter if you use a direct threat?
good Q we are doing a mounting vid soon It should cover that .
If you have a supressor on a precision rifle, does the POI change everytime you remove it and put it back on?
Yes probably and depending on the suppressor baffle orientation and how the suppressor mounts, that change could be somewhat random.
it should not, depends on the mounting solution Thanks for your positive feedback and comments.
I’ve noticed in several of your videos you talk about flow through suppressors not being as good at sound suppression compared to standard cans. What do you think of Pew Science’s data? They show HuxWrks Flow cans performing at the top of rankings. They aren’t always the best, but they are up there.
back pressure they are great, sound wise not so great.
Pew "Science" made up his own testing regimen, which follows none of the recognized methods of sound testing. Anything that he says should be taken w a big grain of salt.
@@Ertactical thank you for the reply!
Do you have anything objective that backs this up? I’ve been using Pew Science’s public testing data to evaluate the relative performance of suppressors. Based on that data the HuxWrks Flow cans do very well, especially the 762 Ti. It’s in the top 10 of the 50 or so cans they’ve tested on a mk18 and the differences between cans in that top 10 is very slight, with the exception of something like the PTR Vent 3.
I guess I’m mostly curious if this is an across the board observation based on objective data, or if it’s purely subjective, where perhaps the flow through cans don’t “sound as good,” but are performing better than they sound. If that makes sense.
Love the channel, please keep the videos coming!
@@avw775Pewscience rates cans on both the muzzle numbers and the at-the-ear numbers. The balance between these helps the flow through cans look better. They are louder at the muzzle but quieter to the shooter. Look for the comparisons they do with the blue and red bars to better explain this
@@quiettime6871 That makes sense. Thanks!
Exited to see where suppressor technology goes. PTR Vent series is testing very well. Flow 7.62Ti still doing great for being flow through. It’s current 16th out of 45 for 5.56 cans on PewScience’s rankings. I bet we’ll see those gaps narrow as the tech continues to evolve.
Suppressors are simple, and over priced... But, they're improvements...
Looks like your barrel makes contact with your glass. Could be an optical allusion I guess
It does not, Thanks for your positive feedback and comments.
5:32 I suspect that a lot of gunphobia, especially in the female population, would be drastically reduced if non-suppressed firearms were the exception.
🎉
I got to borrow my dad's suppressor recently and I ran it on my 6.5 creedmoor for some distance shooting and it changed the game for me completely, I almost don't want to ever shoot with out it
My teacher Buck hates suppressors on precision rifles.
Buck is wrong.
there are pros and cons to both sides. we are all aloud to have pref Thanks for your positive feedback and comments.
FTA
🎉
I can't think of any real reason to not shoot suppressed.
AGREED! well said, Thanks for your positive feedback and comments.
If it has a barrel put a can on it.
haha yes! Thanks for your positive feedback and comments.
thank you =)