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SIZE MATTERS ALORIS QCTP short #26 tubalcain toolpost dorian
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- Опубликовано: 24 фев 2023
- If you are using a DORIAN tool holder mounted on an ALORIS tool post, what is it called???
Answer: Dolores lol
You are watching #26 of my "SHORT SUBJECT" video series.
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Rest assured there of some of us who watch everyone of your videos. Regardless of the particular subject, they are always informative, and I always learn something from them. Please keep up the good work.
I appreciate that!
Yes indeed, I am a daily CNC machinist but have manual machines at home that I use as needed but really enjoy the content here. Love the dry humor and knowledge expounded.
Thanks for breaking this all down for us. I didn't even know that there were two different clamping methods! looking forward to the tool holder episodes.
Enjoyed the edutainment video. I have a piston type QCTP but when working in tight quarters I often get out the lantern tool post. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
I’d better not let my Wife see this, I’ve been telling her for years that size doesn’t matter.
Ofcourse...we were all waiting for this comment...🤣🤣🤣🍆🤤
@@ZerokillerOppel1 I didn’t want to disappoint.
I have been telling her the same thing
@@snowdog90210lol, I see your comment went over everyone's head!
A good explanation of the types available. Thanks, Mr Pete. Looking forward to the others in this series.
Thanks Lyle. looking forward to the tool holder vids.
Well done Lyle, very informative a good video for Saturday morning and my bacon buddy and coffee.
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I bought a Shars wedge type about 6 months ago and really like it. I've owned my Atlas/Craftsman 12/24 more then 20+ years and much prefer the QCTP over the old lantern type. I find the Shars to be much easier and faster getting the tool height correct, and it will be even better when I can afford a couple more tool holders.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you!! I was given a Craftsman lathe and I've been thinking about a quick change, but didn't know where to start in deciding what to get. This video was perfect for me!! Thanks for the info on the budget options, that's where I'm at. I like the option for for the tool post and tools, I really don't have much for the lathe. I also got some type of milling attachment for the lathe and I'll have to search on how to use that as well.
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Good synopsis. Thanks, Mr Pete. One mod I made to my AXA size lathe was a heavier ball on the end of the handle. I wanted to replicate the almost effortless locking of my Dorian CXA. With more mass on the AXA lever, a gentle flick of the finger locks the tool at its natural torque - no risk of pulling the tool post out of alignment, even if only modestly tightened to the compound.
I've rarely heard this kind of thing mentioned on any channel, but on a all precision machines, the torque you apply to the fasteners is expressed as microscopic deformation to precision surfaces somewhere. This effect is amplified on smaller machines, since there is less to thread into everywhere. Maybe some part of my follow-on rambling could be Size Matters mini episodes 4-6?
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Good morning Mr.Pete. Love all your videos...very informative. Keep them coming. Have a great weekend!!
Thanks, you too!
I liked this video Mr.Pete. You mentioned that the older toolposts had a tapered locking arm and that it looked more elegant. Well, I'm going try to duplicate one of those if I can find some dimensions. If not I'll just wing it. Even though I don't have the taper attachment on my old SB-9, I guess it's been a while since I've disrupted my tailstock :)
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Thanks Mr Pete. I wish I could have seen this several years ago when I was trying to figure out what size I needed for my Star lathe.
Thank you Mr Pete - I got one to minimize the amount of tool changes. John
Thanks Mr. Pete for the video. A lot of good Information.
Great subject for a set of videos! Thank you as always
Glad you enjoyed it!
You made it clear that my south bend 9c lathe takes a "AXA" quick change post! Thanks Pete!!
Yep, I bought a mini lathe last year and I've spent all kinds of money on the thing. Far and away the most expensive extra I've purchased was the tooling and quick change post. It was about half the cost of the lathe itself, though of excellent quality. The only thing more expensive than a lathe are the tools needed to use the thing.
Well said!
It's like Double Mint gum! You get to double your pleasure, or at least your outlay. I had an old boss that said you pay for the machine tool, then you pay for it again just to get basic tooling to use it. It's a conspiracy!!!
Thank you for this video Mr Pete. I now have a better understanding of tool posts.
Glad to help
Great video to watch while eating lunch!
Glad I did not spoil your appetite
Thanks MrPete enjoyed that but I was hoping you would describe how to best determine the size based on various measurements (spindle height above the compound slide maybe?) rather than predominantly relying on finding your lathe model in the catalog. Still, obviously, gave you a thumbs up as I always learn something!
Oh, I ALWAYS watch your videos. I give myself a C- or a D, but I still watch and try to learn.
Clear, concise and very informative with no clutter - you're an excellent teacher which is one of the highest accolades I can give - thank you
Wow, thank you!
Thank you Pete for the work you do
always great content Lyle....best wishes from Florida, Paul
Great series and perfect timing for me. I recently picked up a used AXA tool post with 7 tool holders to use in my SB 10L.
Thank you Mr. Pete!
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There is a smaller OXA aloris style tool holder made for mini and small N American lathes like my 100+ year old Dalton Lot 4, 7 1/4" lathe.
Thank you, I have never seen one of the small ones
I've been trying to find proper information for putting a quick change tool Post on my South bend 9" lathe. So many conflicting information on the Internet for the proper size. You are always helpful and informative without bias for brand or qualities. Can't wait for the next episode.
The smallest one size a is perfect for Atlas and south Bend machines.
If you can go to the Aloris website, they have a chart. To determine the size.
I have an AXA-size toolpost on my Myford ML7 (7 by 20) and I usually use it without the topslide so I can more easily get the tools low enough, especially the ones with larger shanks.
The one I have is made by Dorian Tool and it has yet a different locking mechanism, where the central part of one side of the dovetail pushes outwards to lock the holder in place. I guess this product was designed to work around the Aloris patents while still using as many as the unprotected good ideas as possible.
Perfect timing Mr Pete! I was just looking at the Shars website and trying to decide what tool post to buy for my Logan lathe. I was thinking about buying the import but now I’m leaning towards the Aloris. I can’t wait for the next video!
Perfect!
I went with the Aloris. Very satisfied with it. Very well made. I bought the axa set that comes with I think 3 tool holders.
Mine is an 11" Logan
The wedge type is much more rigid as it pulls the holder back against 2 surfaces of the dovetail. The piston type only pushes it against 1 part of the dovetail hence not so rigid. Thanks for showing. Regards from Australia.
Agreed. I have both type. I much prefer the wedge. I noticed on the piston type that it would slightly move the tool holder off square. May not matter for many operations, but when you need your cutting tool to be square to the workpiece, it matters a lot.
I've just upgraded from piston type to wedge this winter and it's a world of difference. The piston one was a bit faster (ie loose) but didn't repeat very much and you could feel it working under heavy loads unless I put shims between the faces. So far the wedge type is so much more rigid and repeatable.
I enjoy your videos very much. I watch from start to finish. Thanks for doing what you do.
Awesome! Thank you!
Nice review of the tool post, always enjoy the shop talk.😊😊😊😊
Glad you enjoyed it👍👍
Great stuff Mr Pete! Thanks for your time and sharing! 👍😎✌️
I was given a mainland Chinese BXA piston QCTH and it works fine in the home shop. There is one caution about Chinese tool holders themselves. They basically work well but the tool clamping screws are awful. Your hex key Allen wrench will crack the screws in no time. My True Value hardware actually had this style screw in stock and they were Italian made. I've never damaged one with a hex key.
Always keep the lantern style tool holder on the shelf. Just the thing to get into a tight spot when the body of the QCTH would be in the way. The 4 way tool post that comes with most Asian bench lathes is even more likely to interfere with getting the cutting tool where you need it.
Cheers from NC/USA
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FINALLY!! I've always wondered what sizes when to what lathes... Thanks for this!!
Who could not like Mr. Pete's videos!!!
Thank you very much
Mr. Pete is too cool for school!!! Love the knowledge transfer!! G
I'm with you on the wedge action. I like the feel you get from that. I don't have a piston type. I have a few of the four way turret lathe style, too. I like those when I am working on multiple parts. Storage has become an issue. I started a project in December, but I haven't finished it yet. Hopefully, it'll work like I plan!! I still use lanterns on the Logan, but there is a plan for some Harold Hall type quick change in the near future. Thanks for the lesson!
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Any videos about tools are winners in my book. Can’t watch enough of em.
Thanks
Very informative. Thanks for all the details and info. Have a good weekend.
Nicely done, looking forward to the two tool holder videos
Another Great video 👍 For my home use I get mine from CDCO .
Good one Mr.Pete. I'll be watching for the upcoming videos. The tool holder that holds a hss cutter vertically would make a great short subject. I would be interested in knowing a little about the cutter relief angles that are built into it plus your general thoughts.
Aloris was the standard when I entered the trade in 1982. I bought a brand X import piston A size for my Craftsman/Atlas. It is a huge improvement over the lantern post for tool changes. It is a far cry from an Aloris. Adam Booth uses a very different style of quick change tool holder that has indexing features that Aloris doesn't offer. He has talked about his "after market" source for his style. I have never seen his style in person. I assume that the Aloris is far more standard and probably less costly. Thank you for plugging SHARS as a legitimate import option for us hobby folk that shy away from Aloris cost. I usually hold out for premium brands on the used market, but tool holders and tool posts are hard to find used at any price.
I bought my brand X tool post from Lost Creek Machine back when Dad still ran the business. They used to annually set up a large tent in the flea market at Midwest Old Threshers, Mount Pleasant, IA. The reunion folk really put a squeeze on the flea market crowd. Many vendors quit coming to the reunion and I quit going, partly for that reason.
I have seen that one that Adam uses. But that is the only one I’ve ever seen like that. I wonder what happened at the threshermans Fair regarding the flea market?
I bought a axa size Chinese from ebay for my southbend 9 inch and it works really nice!
Liked the video. Still waiting for more information on the new style diamond shape tool bit holder as used in some of your videos.
Noted!
G'day Mr. Pete. Some nice toolposts there. I recently bought a Dorian Quadra and installed it on my Colchester Master 2500. It wasn't cheap, but truly a beautiful piece of kit and all made in the USA. See you in the next video. Regards, Aaron.
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Another great one, Mr. Pete!
I really quite like my dovetail-type QCTP, but have been thinking about how I can use tool offsets in my DRO, and find myself feeling awfully envious of the swiss multifix type 40-position toolposts. Sizing those however seems like even deeper wizardry than this!
We have a Parat QCTP on our Harrison Alpha lathe, it is "adjustable" in 15° increments if I remember correctly. There are pros and cons: yes one can change tools but is limited to that 15° steps. On a NC-machine it is in my opinion a smaller problem than if manual machine where the compound is necessary...
thank you, you are a wealth of information and I watch as many of your vids as I can
I appreciate that!
Man I miss physical catalogues.
Yes
Great video as always. Appreciate the hard work and knowledge
Fantastic information thanks Lyle
Great video again, I may have watched all of them.
I love my Aloris AXA wedge type. I'm working on a tool to set the cutter height referencing from the flat surface on top of the cube. It is 'L' shaped in elevation view and has a slight curve in plan view to accommodate the circular part of the locking mechanism. So far so good. Good enough that I use the prototype and seem to be in no hurry to build version 2.0.
One more thing to get
for my Atlas rebuild. Unfortunately no decent tool auctions near me.
Very interesting thanks mate.
I also purchased the Shars, wedge type. I've had all sorts of trouble with mine. I've used Aloris in the past and there is a world of difference between the two. My budget was tight and the price of a used Aloris is crazy. Now I'm not complaining I knew what I was buying. I had to disassemble mine and spend a bit of time cleaning up the rough machining/casting. I have a 9" South Bend.
Thanks for sharing!
Nice video Mr. Pete looking forward to the next one
Thanks 👍
I have a very cheap bench top lathe with a tool post that has a fixed hight for the cutter. Your video showed me a tool post where I can adjust the point the cutter makes contact on the stock. Thanks. Showed me I need a better lathe and tool post. On my cheapo lathe I always get a nib on the end of my stock. Drives me nuts plus shows me I'm not cutting properly. Can't complain too much for the price of $245 I paid for it though. It was a clearance item at Tractor Supply. It at least got me started on lathe concepts.
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Very interesting thank you.
Great timing! I've been digging through older vid's looking for one from a couple of years ago where you had told us which size you use on your Clausing. As a gunsmith apprentice in the 1970's I used a 12 inch Clausing with KDK tool holders. I later bought the machines from my mentor when he closed the shop and have used the KDK's ever since. The KDK's are not as stable as the Aloris I don't believe and I've decided to switch over.
I've watched your channel for some time and enjoy it very much. I'd thought you had cut back on the number of videos being published as they stopped showing up on the recommended list of the channels to which I'm subscribed. Glad to see that was not the case.
Sorry to be long winded here. Thank you for all the work you do. You make 1st class videos.
Thank you very much
I sold my SB 9" with the Aloris AXA. When I got my Clausing 10" I bought the Shars. Just didn't feel the same. I found another Aloris AXA on marketplace for half price. I also kept my lantern toolpost. Sometimes only that will do.
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You're spot on about the wedge type being better than the piston type. The wedge type locks the holder far more positively and is much better at giving repeatable accuracy on removal and replacing the tool holder in relation to the workpiece.
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I've had an import tool post on my SB 13" for a couple years and it seems to perform well.
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This was a big help. Thank you.
Ooh yeah! Looking forward to your thoughts on the holders!
I just crossed that foreign bridge for the old 9C SB. AXA.
Not needling sir but they make an OXA size for mini lathes too.
Interesting subject.
What really hit me is that these QC posts are exceptionally ridgid.
Makes a fellow change his ways a little bit.
SB 13' with a BXA and 4 holders. Works perfectly and the Shars from MSC didn't cost more than my 1925 lathe costed me lol.
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Good info thanks for sharing
Sorry I missed you this year
Enjoyed Mr Pete !
Great video Mr. Pete....
I have an Aloris DA tool post on my large Jet lathe. Those tool holders get expensive to buy.
Informative - thanks for sharing
Thank you for all that great information. I purchased a Logan 825 and have been looking for information on what and where I can purchase to up-grade it. Have you done a video on how to use the lantern style tool post properly and if not can you. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with this old student.
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My good friend combined his Dorain tool holder with his Aloris and it became a Delores........haha....
now it nags him all the time about spending too much time in the shop
and drinking too much beer.while hanging out with his buddies..........
That’s a good one. I will have to remember that.
Well done Lyle very interesting ,,I have a 9 inch Hercus roller bearing head model make in Australia under license I think to South Bend, regards Frank
Ha! I've got 30+ of AA holders! Bought when the price has been right! Do I need all of them? Have I even been using all of them? No, not yet...
Looking forward to Your next videos, hear the good and the bad.....
Excellent!
Excellent.
Great video as always Mr. pete
I liked this video. I came way close to ordering one of the Aloris starter sets in size AXA in the past but circumstances conspired and I couldn't. Hopefully in the future, they seem like a great made in the USA product.
Good stuff!
Adding to what you said about piston vs wedge style: repeatability is the desirable advantage to the wedge style. Piston style holders use the angled dovetail faces as the datums. Any difference in handle pressure will affect how much the holder springs open and where the tool tip ends up each time. The wedge style holder locks the holder up against the body of the tool post in both the front and back, establishing Z. The front dovetail indexes in-and-out (X). The measured result on my CXA Dorian is literal repeatability in tenths. This translates into being able to change a turning tool to a parting tool, cut off a part and return to the turning tool, in exactly the same position. As people move to DROs or CNC, the repeatability becomes even more important.
I added a QCTP some years ago to my 12" Craftsman lathe. I was and continue to be severely limited on tooling funds so reluctantly had to settle for a piston type model though i would have much preferred a wedge model. Of course price dictated a Phase II brand import with 5 tool holders. Though a bit oversized for the 12" Craftsman I bought a BXA. I have found no issues with the BXA in use and purposely chose the BXA for one reason. You can fit a scissors type knurling attachment to a BXA tool holder. You have to make your own if you have an AXA post, or at least you did when i bought my post. I think using a conventional knurling tool on an Atlas/Craftsman lathe puts a lot of strain and wear on the brass cross screw nut these lathes are equipped with that a scissors type knurling attachment does not. I considered buying an AXA post and a handheld scissors type knurler but did not want to go that route. Had my lathe been a heavier built brand i would not have felt i needed a sissors type knurling tool, but given the limitations of the lighter weight Atlas i thought my decision prudent. I have never been given reason to regret choosing the BXA post and have had no performance issues either in size, or due to it being the cheaper piston type post. That said, I would agree that an AXA post would look more appropriate on the machine and if not for the knurling issue I described would have been the post i would have chosen.
I’m glad you had good luck with the BXA. It looks a little bit out of proportion, but it has been perfect for your purposes. I use a BXA on my clausing
@mrpete222 It does appear odd to the eye but has worked fine for my purposes and was chosen for the reason explained.
I have found since making this reply months ago, another option I was not aware of when I chose the BXA relates to tool holders. There are tool holders one can find that have an oversized slot that as I recall would accept a scissor type knurlung tool. If I had known about that when I was selecting my tool post I definitely would have opted for an AXA sized post.
Also I seem to recall reading that the greatest disparity between wedge and piston type tool posts is repeatability in use. Being honest, I don't know how this disparity would reveal itself in use. My assumption is that disparity would appear if the tool holder was removed from its position on the post, then later reinstalled. But as I said, that is speculation on my part.
Looking forward to video #28.
You didn't mention the OXA size which is smaller than the AXA. Though I did see it in the catalog that you showed.
Can’t wait to see more shorts
I have an Aloris AXA on my Clausing 12”. Also a piston clone on an import 9”. The spacer is a great tip as I cannot adjust up enough on some shutters and have to manually hold them up while tightening. Question: will the axa tool holders with the smaller tool opening still fit the dovetails of a BXA post?
The tool holders will not interchange on the tool post as the dovetail is a bit larger on the BXA range. By the same token, most AXA tool holders will fit into the straight milled slot of the larger BXA tool post although it may require shimming under the tool holder to get the tool on the center line. I have an import 14" lathe and the (import-Bostar brand) AXA is fine because the top of the top slide is the correct height for the center line. I also have an import BXA that I use on the rear of the cross slide for rear cut off tool operation. The only thing I would like to compare is how much "play" or "slop" is evident on an Aloris or Dorian USA tool post compared with my Bostar import. The Bostar is a wedge style but you have to be careful to assure that the handle is firmly pulled tight.
No, they are slightly different in size
@@geoffmorgan6059 Thanks for the info!
@@mrpete222 Appreciated. I will shim and keep on going.
You sure do have a lot of tool holders! I'm not a lath guy. I collect radios and I probably have just as many. I get it.
I love the looks of those bakelite radios
I use a BXA on my Southbend 16x8 with a spacer that's about 3/8" thick. I tried a CXA and it just seemed too big. I think I can get into tighter spots with the smaller one.
Thanks
I have a ca da and ea. the toolholders alone for the ea are a good workout to lift! Put an 18” long 2.5” boring bar in one and you know you have a hold of something on a tool change!! Lol😂
Your big machines make my machines look kind of puny
Great video Mr. Pete. Will you be covering mounting tools into the holder, and proper height adjustment?
Is there any way you can make a video on them to let me know more about it they use it to make tank parts
I HAVE A PRATT & WHITNEY 12 X 30 AND USE THE CXA.NO PROBLEMS
They have an MXA as well
I have an import AXA wedge type tool post I bought from Matt Krug at Lost Creek Machine several years ago. It has given good service and I would recommend it to any home shop machinist. I have a neighbor who also has an import AXA tool post and it is a completely different matter. Very sloppy and poorly fitted. All Chinese imports are not the same. Recently, I bought what seemed to be a "too-good-to-be-true" lot of four AXA tool holders listed on eBay for something like $25.00 plus shipping. They were a bitter disappointment. The dovetails were so oversized that I couldn't get them to clamp tightly without using shims. The set screws were so soft that the hex end stripped out while tightening. Also a bad experience with the seller. In short, I should have known better and you get what you pay for. I would buy from someone you can trust like Matt at Lost Creek or Shars. I have had nothing but good experiences with both of them. And while I like, and am still using, my import tool post, I recently had a chance to buy a genuine, second hand, Aloris AXA that I use on another lathe. It is definitely of superior construction and better quality than the Asian made stuff.
Very good analysis. And everyone loves Matt. Friendly with integrity.
Hello, would the wedge type tool post holder, be more rigid compared to the piston type?
BTW, I enjoyed this video and all the others I've watched of yours. I'm a hobbyist machinist and through your videos, I'm getting really good at it. Thanks
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My Aloris on my Jet 12 x 36 is a BXA wedge type. CEE (Australia) has a large USA Dorian four poster for his Toolmaster lathe that costs about $3700.00 plus shipping. It's a monster but does a good job.
Wow
Aloris makes a smaller version than the AXA, called the MXA I use that size on my 10" Emco Austrian lathe. I aliso have an older Dorian BXA that looks exactly like an Aloris with the wedge and tapered handle, however, I think Aloris must have sued them over this, because later model Dorian's have a different wedge arrangement.
Thank you for that information
I believe that they were called "MA". I have a set on my Habbeger 102. I've also seen a smaller size than that on a Schaulblin 70, but I'm not sure that was Aloris.
I also noticed in your Shars catalog that they listed a 0XA. I'm assuming that that's equivalent to the Aloris Miniature size.
I essentially went one size larger, mainly so that I could use it on my next lathe, when I get it.
Good planning
Thanks
I have a 10 logan and yes the axa is the perfect size. A qc tool post speeds things up a lot
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