To those of you asking "WTF?", try to see the big picture in this video. -Firstly we have the last proposition from Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus repeated over and over again. There is a lot more to the book than that, all the other six theorems, their subtheorems and their subtheorems. Yet we have only the last one in this song. We also have a choir repeating it, not just Numminen himself. -Secondly he (and the pianist as well, but that is pretty normal for them) is dressed in a tailcoat, which, atleast in Finland, is worn during the presentation of one's doctoral thesis by the upcoming doctor, their opponent(s) and their supervisor. Thus the tailcoat is somewhat a symbol of sophistication. -Third thing to notice is that the pianist does not play but just turns pages. It is almost as if he did not understand what he was reading. What should be our conclusion? We have someone, who is part of the intellectual elite, reciting proposition 7 after the choir. This is like it was after Wittgenstein had published his work, it was deep, so, to appear intelligent, one had to have read the book. Those who had not understood Tractatus, kept repeating the last proposition to show others they had. That's the choir, that's the pianist too. He just skips everything to get to the last page. To be part of the intellectuals, Numminen joins the choir when it is his turn to speak. That's my interpretation of this video.
I recall reading that Wittgenstein, talking to a friend who could not understand the Tractatus, suggested that he just read the introduction and the last few pages. That, of course, is fairly easy to understand. But the irony is that quoting just the very last line out of context, it is liable to be misunderstood.
One of the great Tenors of our time!M.A have a timber voice that is a pleasure for our souls!May he soon came back to Gothenburg again and give us joy!
I love Wittgenstein as I love Numminen's parody of the intellectual elitism around Wittgenstein after his death by people who quote his great one-liners without any real understanding of his philosophy apart from those. Numminen here is the "serious intellectual" in all proper upper-class setup. Wittgenstein is a super-legend but really understood by not so many.
I posted this video to British Wittgenstein Society's FB and been kicked out by moderator Prof Constantine ;-) I think they should change the name of the BWS to CWS ;-) Bebe Ludwig sings this to shut up Slum LandLords mouth ;-)
Like with most smart art it´s good to have some knowledge about the artist. M.A. has been one of my very few "idols" since I was a child. Some think he´s a joke... and he make me happy but the man is a genious. With a big help from Pedro. Get to know him!
This is a piece that enlights me every single time, regardless whether it rains or not. Eventhough it's a short piece with a few words it still makes a strong statement. L. Wittgenstein was considered as a major western phillosopher of 20th century and the sentence here was his final outcome of Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus. The very last sentence. However, this song makes it even more meaningful or totally meaningless, it's up to you.
Hammer wie geil ist das denn bitte!! Gleich mal volle 5 Punkte! Diese Interpretation wäre bestimmt voll im Sinne Wittgensteins gewesen. Aber davon kann ich nicht sinnvoll sprechen, also muss ich drüber schweigen.
When they were starting their band, he forget his drum and pianist said "you can sing then". Being stressed, Numminen invented accidentally this singing voice and later he made it on purpose. I think he can sing in normal way also.
The Finnish culture says that all things should to be observed by one's own eyes and heart. Just memorizing what others have said is thin, without spirit, almost better left undone - thus the singing style which is disrespectful toward the highly respected theory but gives room to Your own perceptions about life.
Absolutely fantastic. Numminen did a whole album with pieces of wittgenstein in different musical styles. I think it's called Numminen sings Wittgenstein.
Strange that so many people can miss the one obvious point of this song (although as a philosophy quote it may have many points). “Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen” (what cannot be spoken of, people must be silent about” -my interpretation) To combine this with nazi type military march, we are reminded that any philosophical argument can be misused if accepted as an absolute truth by lesser minds and written to a flag. The singing style of M.A. Numminen is carefully planned. One heading that is comes under is “uusrahvaanomaisuus”, hard to translate but maybe neosimplicism with some carnevalism would be close. Listen to him more. His art makes you think and is loaded with sophisticated humor at the same time.
That 'rahvaanomaisuus' would be 'folk-like', in simpler English. So uusrahvaanomaisuus might be neopopulism, except that populism is already quite an occupied definition. But I could imagine M A N had that on his mind, when coining his term :)
I like how much this song mocks the pseudo-intellectuals that are drawn to and quote Wittgestein without actually understanding any of the philosophy. The pianist in the back doing absolutely nothing, just wanting to appear important, and the fact that they only repeat the most famous part of Logica-Philosophus, when it describes pseudo-intellectuals: ”Wovon mann nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss Mann schweigen” roughly translates to ”What cannot be spoken of, must be silenced on”. Pretty much meaning if you don’t know what you’re talking about, it’s best to not talk.
@xjuhox Line is from Tractatus logico-philosophicus by Wittgenstein. "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be quit". Meaning that some sentences appear to be correctly formed by their syntax, yet lack any meaning. Such propositions should not be stated at all, as they cannot give rise to meaningful discussion (ie. their truth value cannot be determined).
@Ptrrrrrrrr I dont understand german language so that part goes over my head... But i do know M A Numminen, and He has great sense of humor. Just take this, as these random videos You stumble on You Tube.
Ei näitä VOI vertailla keskenään, kaikki omalla tavallaan nerokkaan mahtavia! Omat ehdottomat suosikkini ovat mm. "Munat jäi vetoketjun väliin" ja "Laulu jossa on tunnelma"! Kannattaa kuunnella!
Strange thing, i must admit, put in music the wittgenstein propositions...the result sound to me like..uhm, this: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent” ;)
Yes, there is. I've got a copy dedicated by Numminen to the civil name of Marathon-du-Médoc-participant and cartoonist Tex Rubinowitz. If anyone cares.
Though I must mention that his antics as an underground performer shadow his numerous high culture achievements way too often. Singing like that is just a fraction of what he does.
To those of you asking "WTF?", try to see the big picture in this video.
-Firstly we have the last proposition from Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus repeated over and over again. There is a lot more to the book than that, all the other six theorems, their subtheorems and their subtheorems. Yet we have only the last one in this song. We also have a choir repeating it, not just Numminen himself.
-Secondly he (and the pianist as well, but that is pretty normal for them) is dressed in a tailcoat, which, atleast in Finland, is worn during the presentation of one's doctoral thesis by the upcoming doctor, their opponent(s) and their supervisor. Thus the tailcoat is somewhat a symbol of sophistication.
-Third thing to notice is that the pianist does not play but just turns pages. It is almost as if he did not understand what he was reading.
What should be our conclusion? We have someone, who is part of the intellectual elite, reciting proposition 7 after the choir. This is like it was after Wittgenstein had published his work, it was deep, so, to appear intelligent, one had to have read the book. Those who had not understood Tractatus, kept repeating the last proposition to show others they had. That's the choir, that's the pianist too. He just skips everything to get to the last page. To be part of the intellectuals, Numminen joins the choir when it is his turn to speak.
That's my interpretation of this video.
This video is only a bit of a larger suite. More context and music: www.ubu.com/sound/numminen.html
Si, but perhaps it's the most fundamental one.
When you talk about it like that, it’s almost existential, even
@@selfishlucas thank you soooo much for this
I recall reading that Wittgenstein, talking to a friend who could not understand the Tractatus, suggested that he just read the introduction and the last few pages. That, of course, is fairly easy to understand.
But the irony is that quoting just the very last line out of context, it is liable to be misunderstood.
One of the great Tenors of our time!M.A have a timber voice that is a pleasure for our souls!May he soon came back to Gothenburg again and give us joy!
I love Wittgenstein as I love Numminen's parody of the intellectual elitism around Wittgenstein after his death by people who quote his great one-liners without any real understanding of his philosophy apart from those. Numminen here is the "serious intellectual" in all proper upper-class setup.
Wittgenstein is a super-legend but really understood by not so many.
The Damned wanted to hire Pedro in 70's.
If there is at least one single video on youtube that remains after our downfall - it should be this!
I like to think Wittgenstein would have found this to be awesome, had he ever experienced it.
He's unique ..and needed.
I posted this video to British Wittgenstein Society's FB and been kicked out by moderator Prof Constantine ;-) I think they should change the name of the BWS to CWS ;-) Bebe Ludwig sings this to shut up Slum LandLords mouth ;-)
I think they have already seen pasted it there too many times.
I did it too.
I like the piano work.
It's very minimalistic.
I play similar 😎
He understands the meaning of the proposition put forward in the song.
:)
This is by far the best song I know at the moment! It is sooo good. MA Numminen is a genius!
RIP Pedro
The voice of angels.
A real artist. Without any irony.
"Shut the fuck up, Donnie!"
-The Big Lebowski
(A deeply Wittgensteinian film)
wow, I wasn't expecting that voice.
One of the great TENORS of our Time!!
Indeed, much better than Kaufman or Flórez. He is whining on purpose, they just because don't know anything better.
Happy 80th Birthday MAN - still going strong 2020!
That is the only song that needs to be sung.
Like with most smart art it´s good to have some knowledge about the artist. M.A. has been one of my very few "idols" since I was a child. Some think he´s a joke... and he make me happy but the man is a genious. With a big help from Pedro. Get to know him!
This is a piece that enlights me every single time, regardless whether it rains or not. Eventhough it's a short piece with a few words it still makes a strong statement. L. Wittgenstein was considered as a major western phillosopher of 20th century and the sentence here was his final outcome of Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus. The very last sentence. However, this song makes it even more meaningful or totally meaningless, it's up to you.
haha great.
se him live when i was kid , some 30 years ago in sweden,liked him ever since
einfach nur genial!!!
hat schon tage gegeben an denen ich datt den ganzen tag gesungen hab :)
This is one of my favorites from Mr. Numminen.
Järisyttävää, amazing och underbart
Exzellent.
Fucking brilliant.
Numminen and Wittgenstein, a match made in heaven.
Or in Hell. Either way, nice
Great stuff! Numminen is the best.
I just realised that this is two performances in one - Pedro is presenting his interpretation of John Cage's 4'33" on the piano.
Hammer wie geil ist das denn bitte!! Gleich mal volle 5 Punkte! Diese Interpretation wäre bestimmt voll im Sinne Wittgensteins gewesen. Aber davon kann ich nicht sinnvoll sprechen, also muss ich drüber schweigen.
Yes. That is his real singing-voice unaltered if anyone is asking. And that's why he is popular
When they were starting their band, he forget his drum and pianist said "you can sing then". Being stressed, Numminen invented accidentally this singing voice and later he made it on purpose. I think he can sing in normal way also.
It's not, he can actually sing to an extent. This is his trademark for humoristic art pieces.
This is just so.. Charismatic :D Even tho, it surprised me a lot how he made his sound like, but actually. Like it a lot ;)
genial. das video, die musik, einfach alles
Vielen würde gut zu Gesicht stehen, dieses Motto oft zu beherzigen!
The Finnish culture says that all things should to be observed by one's own eyes and heart. Just memorizing what others have said is thin, without spirit, almost better left undone - thus the singing style which is disrespectful toward the highly respected theory but gives room to Your own perceptions about life.
You have just realised that the pianist doesn't play anything, he just turns the pages.
Numminen on keisari.
I could also play this with piano. Seems easy enough.
Absolutely fantastic. Numminen did a whole album with pieces of wittgenstein in different musical styles. I think it's called Numminen sings Wittgenstein.
@Ptrrrrrrrr
Wittgenstein was a moral philosopher and a predicate logicist. M. A. Numminen is a Finnish artist. What did you miss?
Kyllä se on niin, että kaikki maailman nerous huipentuu tähän esitykseen, itse Isä Jumalakin vaikenee tällaisen edessä...!
Eihän totuus koskaan vaikene. Kivetkin kirkuu hänen ääntään.
Hänen hiljaisuutensakin on täynnä merkityksiä.
Joko on on muuten vastannu?
Strange that so many people can miss the one obvious point of this song (although as a
philosophy quote it may have many points).
“Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen” (what cannot be spoken of, people
must be silent about” -my interpretation)
To combine this with nazi type military march, we are reminded that any philosophical argument
can be misused if accepted as an absolute truth by lesser minds and written to
a flag.
The singing style of M.A. Numminen is carefully planned. One heading that is comes under is
“uusrahvaanomaisuus”, hard to translate but maybe neosimplicism with some carnevalism
would be close. Listen to him more. His art makes you think and is loaded with sophisticated humor at the same time.
Bebe Ludwig sings this against Slum LandLords ;-)
See my FB facebook.com/groups/1587725144778017/?ref=bookmarks
That 'rahvaanomaisuus' would be 'folk-like', in simpler English.
So uusrahvaanomaisuus might be neopopulism, except that populism is already quite an occupied definition.
But I could imagine M A N had that on his mind, when coining his term :)
Bang up job by Pedro @ the piano!
das bringt alles auf den punkt!!!!!
I gave thumbs up to this to appear intellectual
Finlands's performance in the Eurovision Song Contest 2009
Haha, wtf??
What a beautiful voice xD
Why is my dad upsessed with this song lmao?
Dat serious face.
"Mistä ei voi puhua, siitä täytyy vaieta"... ilmankos pianisti ei soita lainkaan :)
There's a documentary film about M. A. Numminen in the making, you can see the trailer here on RUclips.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man singen!
Genial!
I like how much this song mocks the pseudo-intellectuals that are drawn to and quote Wittgestein without actually understanding any of the philosophy.
The pianist in the back doing absolutely nothing, just wanting to appear important, and the fact that they only repeat the most famous part of Logica-Philosophus, when it describes pseudo-intellectuals: ”Wovon mann nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss Mann schweigen” roughly translates to ”What cannot be spoken of, must be silenced on”. Pretty much meaning if you don’t know what you’re talking about, it’s best to not talk.
Danke dafür!!!
Kyllä se Pedrolta näyttää mun mielestä näyttää.
Great
I think I'll pass over this in silence.
Löytyy tuubista, kokeilehan! Aivan mahtava!
they are singing "of that what one cannot talk of, one has to remain silent"
Hyvä Pä ivää Tampere yliopisto Jag skulle gärna hört Hr Witgenstein sjunga Ma Numinen I sometimes do Like Mr Jussi Björling almost
Great!
I LOVE IT! thanks for this!!!
Singing beautiful art!
@xjuhox
Line is from Tractatus logico-philosophicus by Wittgenstein.
"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be quit".
Meaning that some sentences appear to be correctly formed by their syntax, yet lack any meaning. Such propositions should not be stated at all, as they cannot give rise to meaningful discussion (ie. their truth value cannot be determined).
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
@Ptrrrrrrrr I dont understand german language so that part goes over my head...
But i do know M A Numminen, and He has great sense of humor.
Just take this, as these random videos You stumble on You Tube.
Ei näitä VOI vertailla keskenään, kaikki omalla tavallaan nerokkaan mahtavia! Omat ehdottomat suosikkini ovat mm. "Munat jäi vetoketjun väliin" ja "Laulu jossa on tunnelma"! Kannattaa kuunnella!
i like it... new discovery for me
@Jaakk0S Thanks for sorta explaining what this song is about. I had no clue. I am only familiar with Wittgenstein as a student of philosophy.
@Tigeraquaonvoimakone
M.A. Numminen on ehkä hienoin ruotsalainen suomalainen viroa ja saksaa ja suomea ja ruotsia laulava artisti.
Strange thing, i must admit, put in music the wittgenstein propositions...the result sound to me like..uhm, this: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent” ;)
you're the serious intellectual
Yes, there is. I've got a copy dedicated by Numminen to the civil name of Marathon-du-Médoc-participant and cartoonist Tex Rubinowitz. If anyone cares.
best ever
Oh god. I'm on the weird side of youtube again.
brilliant
Nette Satire im volkstümlichen Stil. Klingt wie eine Synthese aus Kurt Weill und dem Wildschütz Jennerwein.
"Mistä ei voi puhua, täytyy vaieta." Mutta kukaan ei silti pitänyt MA Nummisen turpaa tukossa! Ja hyvä niin!
i'm offended, iddyupmty by your being offended by something inoffensive. and i think youre right, it's a beautiful sentence!
Numminen PERKELE!
weiß irgendwer, ob es da auch eine ländere version gibt? bitte hilfe.
Still better than Bieber.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man ein Video machen
@arschwurst11
He is an avantgarde pioneer in Finland. He sings like that because..well, he wants to annoy people.
wounder full song! Makes me cry! :D haha
M.A. ja Pedro ovat...kovia!
Yeah relly beatiful :DDDD. it so obvious
Would you kindly translate the lyrics-- many thanks in advance!
Finnish music at its best....
SUOMIIIIIIIIIIIII!!! PERKELE
Though I must mention that his antics as an underground performer shadow his numerous high culture achievements way too often. Singing like that is just a fraction of what he does.
delicious!!!
You love Wittgenstein? LOVE???
Is there anywhere else to be?
I wonder Laibach never covered it.
Wittgenstein-Klasik-Blues.
Ulf sent me here
die stimme kenn ich doch von toons ?
correct. but zura's story is fun literary speculation, though!