Coulson 737 large air tanker preliminary report
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- Опубликовано: 1 май 2023
- The preliminary released by the ATSB details the sequence of events leading to a Boeing 737 large air tanker’s impact with a ridgeline in Western Australia’s Fitzgerald River National Park while conducting an aerial fire-fighting task on 6 February 2023.
The preliminary report outlines factual information collected in the on-going investigation’s early evidence collection phase, and details that the modified Coulson Aviation-operated 737 air tanker, callsign ‘Bomber 139’, with two pilots on board, had departed from Busselton Airport to assist fire control efforts near Hopetoun, about 600 km south-east of Perth.
Read the preliminary report: www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...
After seeing the wreckage, I'm amazed the pilots survived.
Because it started to burn after the pilots scaped
I'm guessing based on the location of everything, that the aircraft still looked like an aircraft but post crash fires have a way of making things look MUCH worse. Still any crash you survive is good news.
You can see in one of the photos the amount of distance that seperated the cockpit from the actual fire, I'm sure that helped.
Every bit of that trail of impact damage was kinetic energy being shed from the plane, making it a very survivable crash for the crew.
truly amazing. Generally trees act like shredders to airplanes, but it looks like it was mostly low scrub. They must have had just enough control authority to be able to make a cushioned landing rather than simply smacking cumulo-granite
Glad to see the pilots got out safe.
Man i was quite sad when i saw the thumbnail. Air tankers are exceptional pilots doing amazing work, the thought losing those guys is upsetting. To hear they exited the plan by themselves with minor injuries is absolutely wonderful.
Hopefully they keep these two out of the cockpit for now on
Amazing they walked away from this.
Yes, unbelievable - to crash onto a ridge, break the plane apart, have it mostly destroyed by fire, and to walk away is incredible. They were extremely lucky!
@@pulaski1 the plane started to burn after they got out so maybe if the crash was not that hard is possible
I think ran away is more accurate, but I get your pount.
Gravity is suspected to have played a major role in the cause of this crash.
Gravity still has an undefeated record.
The positioning of the Earth is also a likely contributing factor
W.A. Police say speed was a major factor.
I’m thinking it was climate change because I didn’t pay a carbon tax for my plane this year.
According to Tesla himself, gravity is just a theory.
In the eternal struggle between plane and ground, ground has yet to lose.
_looks at the thousands of successful flights completed each day_
@@t65bx25 In those examples, the plane and ground didn't fight!
@@mrdan2898 no the plane is always fighting the ground and after few decades the plane has to give up and be grounded. no matter how much TLC a plane gets sooner or later it ends up stuck to the ground one way or another.
@@phalanx3803 I agree with you
Studies suggest a clash between a plane and the ground would result fatal for the aircraft, with the surface of Earth receiving minor injuries.
I wish the NTSB in the US would produce public information to this detail and quality. It’s an amazing learning tool.
NTSB is highly politicized, as with any US federal agency. All part of a giant corporation. TWA 800 was shot down by a US Navy missile, but the ntsb got a rap on the head when they stated that and had to change to the crap of a wire sparking in the fuel tank.
They usually produce these animations as well and you can request a copy of the reports that usually include copies of those files too. Not sure where you'd get the software though. They could produce videos much like the chemical safety board as well, but they don't have a lot of funds for such things. Gotta remember they also have to investigate a ton of other stuff, daily small aircraft crashes, runway incursions and so on. They do work with the producers of mayday at least so that's as good as it'll get.
Also worth pointing out that it’s extremely rare for airliners that carry that type of recording equipment go down in the US. Most crashes are smaller GA planes that don’t have black boxes.
Similarly the USCSB makes highly detailed and animated videos about critical accidents. It would be cool to see similar things from other agencies such as the NTSB.
They literally do.
Its totally amazing these pilots survived. That typically does not happen in a CFIT accident.
this one made my day when I first saw the introductory shots and red things I thought you know they lost some people. Then I got into it and found that co-pilot and pilot managed to get themselves out of the cockpit area and beat feet from the fire! If an old saying that any Landing you can walk away from is a successful Landing. I guess this was successful to, only there was a little bit of a mess to clean up. God bless you guys for returning home!
the sweet irony of the plane catching fire.
ATSB Report: "During the final low-level retardant drop the throttle levers (TLA) were positioned at high idle (0°) while at a radio height above the ground of less than 100 ft. As the engine N1 speed decreased to about 30%, the rate of descent increased to 1,800 ft/min before the thrust levers were advanced while the aircraft continued to descend. About 2 seconds prior to impact, at a radio altitude of about 28 ft with the flaps at 40º, an increasing aircraft nose-up pitch attitude resulted in the vane angle of attack exceeding 20°, which triggered the stick shaker. The aircraft only attained a positive rate of climb just before impact with terrain."
oups I did it (again)
Do you think this played a part in the two pilots surviving?
Thank you! That's what I came for. The rest was interesting, but how do they make a video like this? "We have completed a preliminary report. Thank you."
@Knee’s dut’s From this: They would have been at a minimum speed, barely above stall with full flaps. Also a minimum vertical speed intuitive terrain. Basically, a perfect accidental belly landing.
They were still incredibly lucky.
@@briant7265 thanks for the info 👍
Pilots sit up front with very little crumble zone between them and what they crash into. The fact they survived this crash and were able to both self extricate from the crash to get away from the fire is incredible.
I am surprised the pilots survived looking at the wreckage, you may think no one survived but it has to be a shock when your find out there were no fatalities
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for sharing. I hope the pilots continue to be ok physically and mentally ok.
Great news that the crew survived!
Three things you can never use to save you. The fuel you didn't put into the tank. The runway behind you at touchdown. And the altitude above you.
You can turn the altitude above you into altitude below you. They almost succeeded in doing that.
wow so deep
The fuel you didn't put in prevents you from dying charred in the accident 👀
I can't believe all survived. Very, very lucky
Any landing you walk away from is a good one!
I believe the quote is: "Any crash you can walk away from, is a landing." - Launchpad McQuack
I’ve flown this aircraft when it was part of Southwest fleet.
Neat! N619SW if I’m not mistaken?
@@JayJayAviation you are right that is the tail number.
As most fire fighting aircraft tend to be older or outdated aircraft I imagine the airplane and a heavy amount of cycles? Not to say there is anything wrong with older planes. Back in the day I was out on the fire lines when the PBY's Neptunes and retired bombers were used
Great investigation!
Thanks for the video.
I actually thought about this crash yesterday and intended to look for any updates.
Looks like the AI found me first 🙂👍
Happy to hear the pilots survived and were rescued.
In a wildfire zone no less, They escape one burring hell and ended up in another.
George, George, king of the jungle, watch out for those treeeeees!
No disrespect intended. Glad the crew got out.
"If you walk away from a landing, it's a good landing." Chuck Yeager
I have to ask myself what the heck these guys were thinking to pull the throttles back that far so close to the ground. When I was flying jets, I wouldn’t even consider doing that unless I’d already passed over the runway threshold, and had committed to landing.
I think it had to do flying slow enough to drop the fire retardant
@@2Phast4Rocket Well I imagine that it had something to do with that, but they overshot whatever their speed target was supposed to be. because fighting fires doesn't include crashing the airplane.
@@2Phast4Rocket if the computed airspeed is to be believed, they were well below what would be a typical airspeed for landing and is within the realm of a stall.
@mtnman1984 I don't think anyone will argue against the fact the pilot flew the airplane at a such low speed but the fire bomber flies in a different regime than a normal 737 in commercial service. The plane has less fuel and maneuvers close to the ground so the speed to fly is different. I realize the mission is dangerous but people should stop comparing how this airplane should operate based on commercial airliner
@@2Phast4Rocket Well I think you're making an assumption. Speaking only for myself as a commercial pilot and flight instructor, I'm not comparing this operation to a commercial airliner. I'm comparing this operation to good practices for any aircraft. Every aircraft according to load and operational characteristics, has a defined minimum maneuvering speed, and they violated that speed... which caused this crash.
Interesting to see the ADSB starting to use drone photogrammetry to map the accident site
This is the highest quality video report I've ever seen.
Graphic shows flap 25 but report says "with the flaps at 40º".... thoughts?
So glad the pilots survived.
wow glad they made it out
Glad to hear they survived this acc!
Great news 😲👍 they made it!
So thankful the pilots survived.
A cat has nine lives they say, don't know how many pilots have but lady luck smiled on them for sure. To walk away from clipping a ridge at flight speed is unbelievable.
Strange, to put the Thrust on Iddle...
Glad they’re safe, had to have been wild
Glad the pilots made it! 😎🎵🎶
Bit surprised there wasnt a vid taken from the spotter plane.
Thank our Father everyone lives
2:48 watch the vertical speed indicator, it goes from 500 (something) to 1000 (something) which could mean a strong downdraft as the pilots reacted quickly however the plane could not. They should have been a higher power setting with more drag on the approach. Dumping the drag would have allowed the plane to react quicker to downdrafts. Glad the pilots got out safely.
If it helps, try to think of this as being akin to delivering CAS to ground troops. Doing so, you need to be going slow enough to make things out on the ground (terrain features, positions of friendly assets, etc). The obvious issue is that if you get even margionally too low and slow, you can have a CFIT with even minimal changes in the weather. Obviously a fighter sized aircraft like an A-10 can respond much faster, but a 737 may not be able to. This style of fire fighting is exceptionally dangerous, so much so that even Disney can't sugar coat it (and in Planes Fire and Rescue.... they didn't).
Hey - you're right. Makes one wonder if some sort of downburst surprised them.
@@jimwinchester339 It's entirely possible. We'd have to see what Australian Weather has to say about the conditions in the area at the time of the accident.
Watch the throttles (on the right) and airspeed (far left). They cut throttles and lost airspeed and lift.
@@Tank50us problem is fire tends to create it own weather around it and the bigger the fire the stronger the effect.
Man, the FireLiner is one of my favorite aircraft. Sad to see one of them go 😭
AMAZING they walked away..
Looks like the engines didn’t have enough time to spool up, and when the pilot saw their altimeter getting close to ground, they pulled back hard on the stick activating the stick shaker and ultimately a stall was inevitable.
Everybody walked away thank goodness. The CVR and FDR look pretty dam rough, good to see they still got data off of them.
The pilots were rescued and then proceeded to get knackered and tell the best story in the bar ever told.
Shocked they survived.
So, it was dumping its second load of fire retardant that burned up in the crash?
Surviving this would be a fever dream.
Happy the crew weren't killed.
It's a miracle both pilots survived.
Actually, physics is why they survived. Struck tail first with positive climb rate right at impact. Basically they were at the bottom of the curve and just starting to climb at impact, which means they met the ground with near zero vertical speed, it was all horizontal. So a skid, skip, and skid to a stop. I'm not saying it was a smooth landing but if your going to crash a plane, this is how to maximize your survival chances. When we find one that impacts the earth vertically nose down and have any survivors, I'll jump on that miracle train with you.
Just imagine their survival chances if they hadn’t crashed into the ground in the first place.
@@nocalsteve Can't argue with that HAHA!
I take it the ATSB is similar to the NTSB?
Yes. Except I think the Aussies are slightly more efficient in producing detailed reports.
A lot of tanker pilots that I have talked to say that the aircraft us some funny things when you finish your you have to think about how the weight shifts as that last final bit of material is working its way to the back of the tank. At that altitude a weight shift like that could cause your tail to drop meaning that you're having to put more power to keep yourself level but there wasn't enough room for recovery and that's why they were able to walk away from this amazingly enough. Pitch up, full throttle procedure which is the normal procedure at the end of the end of the drop. It is miraculous that they walked away from this with minor injuries
Your at a low energy state right after a drop. Pitching up is not an option. A well designed tank doesn't have an appreciable shift in CG when dropping (Eriksons MD80 is the only exception, it goes from one CG limit to another when dropping).
Glad pilots are ok.
Glad to know Boeing built quality.
Glad to see those two survived!
Thank God the Pilots are okay
One lucky crew!!!!!!!!!!
Those pilots just cashed in every single prayer, wish, dream, divine intervention and even borrowed a lot of cat's 9 lives to survive that alive... Unscratched are odds into the billions to one.
I keep confusing ATSB and ADSB. Was confused why everyone was wearing the name of a location broadcasting unit. Lol.
Want to hear from the actual pilots
does the metal of the fuselage and wings just burn away or does it melt? ive never been able to find out why planes burn like that.
It's aluminum and polymers. Have you ever thrown an aluminum can into a fire? Thin aluminum develops an oxide layer on the exposed surfaces which forms a kind of brittle skin while the aluminum inside becomes molten. The oxide layers are microthin and therefore have no structure. So it just kind of shrivels and drops in place. Whatever molten aluminum that falls will also immediately develop it's own oxide layer so wrinkled little pools or thin sheets that form to the ground will be found especially where thicker structural members were. The polymers can vary. Thermoplastics will melt and carbon fiber and epoxies will char or burn depending on the resins used. The most identifiable parts will be larger castings, wiring and fasteners and anything made of steel or titanium. The plane itself doesn't burn, the fuel, oils, plastics etc are what burn. The plane just melts. And quickly. Ironic that they were carrying so much fire retardant.
You'll find when an aluminium structure becomes super hot in a fire, they'll just be pools of molten aluminium everywhere that eventually solidify
It’s the magnesium in the aluminum that makes aircraft so volatile.
I'm glad they survived however, how the hell did they get out in time? Thats insane
Thank god they survived
CFIT. They are lucky to have survived...
I wouldn't call it controlled at that airspeed.
Im glad they survived.
Stall?
Boy those two guy were lucky!
Crazy that the pilots got out unharmed
Irrelevant to the video, but the photogrammetry of the crash site is impressive.
The 2 pilots where lucky 🍀
These fire fighting pilots have some guts. That I myself do not possess! I am glad they got out alive.
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.
bro they lived? damn
Full of fire retardant, but still catches fire..
i find this quite interesting that to fly at such a low altitude, the pilot has to employ flaps and lower the speed, ok so fairly normal when landing and i guess in the end as proved in this incident, if you do bounce off the ground, it is safer at lower speed than normal flying operational speed when flying at higher altitudes - BUT my question is why on earth at low altitude, drop the speed on the throttles to idle, isn't that increasing the pilots (or crews) actions, and increase that awareness in engine lag, that seems to be the most important factor here, that last 30 seconds visual on the graph is very scary to me
for the pilots sake, is it not safer to operate at slightly higher altitude (which they will now do so, as seen in the report) not at an idle speed, just fly the plane (as a normal airliner) drop your load and get out safe
i guess all these factors are based on the retardants effectiveness to do its job, flying higher faster may decrease the density of the product and with possible drift where as dropping lower and slower will increase density of the product with less drift - i think that might say it all, the effects of the product are determined by the planes performance - perhaps that needs reviewing, its never an easy cookie to crack!
The aircraft was going so slow it actually stalled. That's why the stick shaker was buzzing.
Wow those pilots got off lucky
Classic pilot error
When did this happen
A plane set to stop a fire ends up starting a fire. What an ironic crash
this is an easy one. failure to maintain airspeed, too low on altitude, and spool up too slow to react to slow pilot input and poor management of situational awareness. sucks, but there is a region of flight where you're just along for the ride until you impact terrain and this fits perfectly.
Thank you armchair investigator for your expert analysis of the situation.
Pretty obviously pilot error in not accounting for spool up and time and high rate of descent at 2-300 feet agl. Were they ex-turboprop pilots with little jet time?? Inexcusable really.
Oh are you an expert water bomber pilot? Didn't think so 🙄
Having a tank of fire retardant helped survival.
So basically the flew it into the ground not seeing the slight ridge they hit
Well, both pilots survived, that's what really counts to me.
Crap we lost another one.
By the pictures, it looks like they were doing an emergency dump of retardant or still continuing the line. Im sure every tanker pilot has had to take an emergency dump in the cockpit at some point in his career. Isnt that what they make those little tree things to hang from the rearview mirror?
Safest 737 flight
Damn this airframe used to serve Southwest Airlines as N619SW
Too bad I never got to fly on her
Glad the crew got out
hooleee, i knew nothing about this!
Probably a ground affect
One of the most common optical illusions, slowly rising ground , gets ignored as level, until the plane has reached the point where it cannot recover while staying airborne. Lost friends to this,
That was the 1st thing I noticed
I wonder if being full of fire retardant saved them. Process will be revised...
Did it crash?
that's amazing the aircrew walked away. that's normally NOT the case with a controlled into terrain. they aught to go buy all the lotto tickets they can find!
Any landing you can walk away from
Average 737 flight, still glad that the crew made it safely.
Why waste money on an air crash investigation? Pilot error is obvious. They were so lucky to walk away from it.
If anything its to gain information so the same mistakes dont get made again.
Nothing is obvious in air crashes. Theres how it looks, what really happened and speculation in the middle like a ham sandwich.
You sound like a complete idiot... If it is indeed 100% Pilot error the purpose of the investigation is also to determine WHY the pilots made those errors and determine if routines, training manuals etc can be changed to avoid the same mistakes being made in the future.
Umm, let's save money. They dun did f up! At least they lived to learn and never do that again. :)
Seems like there's a joke here somewhere about a jet full of fire retardant crashing and burning. Oh well...just glad the pilots literally walked away. Lucky souls.
I think the pilots ran away and hid in the out back .