Coulson 737 'Fireliner' Airtanker Down Australia 6 Feb 2023
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
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Hi Blan, this is technically a happy ending. So that's great. Now...... that thing you said about 'Why' they would be out there!? 🤔 🦎
@@Syndr1 yes, worth an update….
@@Syndr1 Because Ravensthorpe & Hopetoun are under threat.
I know I am making an unqualified comment here but looking at the "skidmarks" made by the engines (presumably) they don't seem to be very long or deep. That sandy soil is generally quite soft so it seems to me their groundspeed was very low with little vertical component. I'm looking at the second clip at 0.24.
Thanks. Michael "Mike" Ehrmantraut seems to be helping out @ 00:28 of the ABC story ;]
Wow I didn't expect you to say they survived. ❤️❤️❤️ That's amazing to hear especially in this type of flying.
Juan, I used to work in the forestry industry conducting controlled burns and fighting wildfires. I was a fire boss and equipment operator using bulldozers to construct fire lines and actively fight fires that got out of the control boundaries. I coordinated with air crews in helicopters using napalm dripped from a torch to help light the interior of controlled burns. I have also had forestry commission air support drop water on the dozer I was operating while fighting wildfires to beat back the flames and allow me to push/cut new fire lines to keep the fire from spreading. From the looks of the terrain in the photo the location of the wildfire in Australia may have been too remote to get ground crews and equipment on scene in time to keep the fire from spreading into more difficult terrain. Also remember it was just a few of years ago when very damaging wildfires devastated parts of South Australia. With this fresh on the minds of firefighters, deploying aircraft to the remote area in an attempt to dampen the fire until ground crew could get there to mop up and make sure it was no longer a threat may have been the objective.
Forecast wind strength and direction might see it threaten the Ravensthorpe road in particular.
You are spot on mate. It’s a very remote area and aerial appliances will always be the first motive attack
A know a little about the area. The terrain is mixed scrub/ lowland forest. The national park has low rolling hills but access is difficult for land based crews. Given the prevailing wind comes from the south west around this area , it would be on a path towards the town to the northeast, Ravensthorpe. Especially if the fire gets out from the National Park. Pretty much nothing will stop it.
Then you also have a couple of small coastal townships that would be isolated and possibly threatened with a wind change forecast in a couple of days. Maybe the authorities were trying to limit it before it got outside the park area?
It is a lovely part of the world btw, if you ever get the chance.
I'm an Australian Engineer (& pilot) who has worked in that region.
Just to the East of the crash site is Hopetoun and to the East of that the Ravensthorpe Nickel mine. I worked on the construction of that mine.
This region is environmentally very sensitive with many unique species. That was covered in the induction process when I started on the mine site.
In terms of terrain the *SHAPE* of the land is very similar to the Midwest as in fairly flat rolling planes. I went to college at U. Illinois and travelled extensively around that region. Above 500ft AGL there's no effective change in terrain as your clear of all surrounding terrain. But if your down at 200ft AGL then you are NOT clear of all terrain. I spent some time working in Saskatchewan a few years ago and the *SHAPE* of their land is similar.
@@tonywilson4713 you are right. I live in Australia now, and fires can get out of hand QUICK.
My heart sank, when I heard about the loss of the plane and then you said the magic words: "Both pilots survived..."
Same here. I always come onto Juan's page with a certain amount of trepidation. I'm retired now, but that "There, but for the grace of God, go I" thought still goes through my mind.
My heart still sinks at the mention of the pervious accident.
Not only survived, media here claim they walked away from it with nothing more than a scratch…
@@JQNick Must have had totally extreme luck.
@@JQNick yep, just seen a video of of one of them walking into hospital still in uniform like nothing had happened, really lucky, I would of expected some facial injuries at the very least
West Australian here, all of that area is tree-less and they fight those sorts of fires very early to try to stop them spreading to absolutely enormous areas of important habitat/natural-value.
just letting the fuel accumulate so the eventual fire is cataclysmic. real intelligent. good job.
Plus it gives them practice for when the bigger s*** hits the fan.
@@bosshog8844 The dope is back in the room. There r more wildflower species there than any place on planet earth. Controlled burning isn't what that place is for.
Agreed. Sth Australia fought devistating fires recently where airbombing was the deciding factor in getting it under control.
Interesting views - A pilot considering if a flying task is worth the pilots life before undertaking what pilot is employed to do? Would be an pre-employment consideration. A decision to make before being engaged as pilot firefighting, flying pax to holiday destinations, tourist joyrides, military action, medical retrieval, policing, or training new pilots.
Airsupport is so expensive but highly valued- company contractors and authorities work together in risk assessment and management. Firefighting work is not a trivial undertaking anywhere in Australia.
@@bosshog8844 There do prescribed burn off's in the cooler month's not in the middle of summer! The whole country would go up in flames especially when gum tree's explode due the the eucalyptus oil within.
Juan, if they don’t jump onto fires over here we end up with massive wild fires ( bush fires ). They don’t stop or slow down as our native species have a lot higher oil content than a lot of other countries. And there are small farming communities spread throughout the bush as outside the national park is a lot of grazing and pastoral land
However I’m glad the crew survived 🎉
I'm a volunteer firefighter in Australia, and have operated at Divisional Commander level (the highest rank on the fireground). The only assets NOT under our control are these large air tankers.
Despite the lack of population and apparent assets to protect, the reason we get these retardant lines dropped is to help contain a fire - both it's spread and it's speed. The nature of the Australian bush is that we have few natural features to contain fires - such as rivers and roads. We always work from natural features to provide a level of safety for ourselves and to ensure containment in depth. If we don't attempt to contain a fire quickly, then there's a real risk of a fire growing quickly before it reaches a natural containment feature to the point where that will fail. Large air tankers provide an opportunity to get in quickly, building containment lines from natural features and to complement other containment efforts.
I've not always been a fan of them. I don't like large tankers being used to close to crews on the ground, as we have to pull out and give the fire more time to develop while the aircraft completes its runs. But they definitely have a role in complementing what we do on the ground.
I am of the belief that American pilots, who run right wing Extreme, care nothing for the environment or wild lands. No knowledge of wild fire devastation or fast moving fire which destroys habitat, farms, homes, and economies. That’s why you get statements questioning the reason for drops to stop wild fires.
I'm so glad the crew survived. As I understand from a lot of reading about Aussie Land, that is an important wildlife area.
Yeah, but fire is part of wildlife. Scrub is designed to burn. Certain trees and plants only reproduce after a fire. We have chaparral in California that hasn't had a fire in 40 years. There's so much Deadwood that when it does go up, it's going to be catastrophic! Of course now, there are often homes built around it, so when a fire does start, they treat it like a five alarm fire, and knock it down instantly. One day, the fires going to get a jump on them and it'll be catastrophic! An example being what happened in Santa Rosa California several years ago.
Whatever -
@@bobwilson758 You’re brilliant Boob, thanks for the deep insight
The land needs fires to clear out the dead undergrowth, the Indigenous people did it for centuries. Now we feel the need to put every fire out because it’s not “green”.
The Fitzgerald NP has the most diverse flora species types on earth and is regarded as the jewel in the crown of Aussi NPs. They were attempting to stop the fire destroying vast areas threatened by strong winds and a fire that could soon grow to a monstrous size.
Hello from a pilot in (relatively) nearby Perth. Fitzgerald River National Park is considered to have more unique plant and animal species than any other area in Australia, including the state of Western Australia’s most endangered bird species. A huge fire about 15 years ago is responsible for the extinction of several species and the endangerment of others. The consequence of that fire may have impacted the decision to fight the current fire. Think of it as fighting a fire to save the California Condor. Also Ravensthorpe has a world-scale Nickel and Cobalt mine, and we all want minerals for battery powered cars. Let’s face it, if we only fought fires in Western Oz that were immediately impacting people or human assets, not many huge fires would ever be fought.
Not worth dying over in an Airtanker. Strap yourself in there and change my mind…;-)
@@blancolirio No need, the pilots are adults & seem to be ok making their own choices.
@@corvanphoenix the only real victims are those multimillion dollar Californian mansions though!
@@blancolirio isolated does not stay isolated. The weather is benin at present in the area, so it is the time to put in containment lines to control the fire.
In an isolated area, LAT's are the only viable asset to deliver a large amount of water to slow a fire down or in extreme conditions, ease behaviour so ground crews can get in.
They are never used here in populated areas. That is the domain of rotary aircraft.
@@corvanphoenix they should pay for it from their own pockets.
Amazing the pilots were able to clamber out of the wreck! Not often you hear that from a jet of this size that goes down.
Right I can't imagine what type of landing that had to be for them to survive.
Actually, throughout history, there are plenty of accidents where the cockpit section remains intact and allows the crew to escape, yet most of the passengers perish.
It's when the cockpit detaches on impact that they usually get killed.
It imagine the aircraft must have been in a near level attitude, and also they were very lucky.. if the aircraft had departed and crashed nose first there would be nothing left but confetti.
They were only doing approx 100kts ground speed at around the time of impact which means a higher chance of surviving when compared to nosing in a 300 + knots. Would love to see the crash site.
@@kiwidiesel There are videos on youtube showing the crash site, looks fairly level so looking like they were maybe able to skid along the ground, just lucky it hit in such a way as it could have been bad, very lucky.
The Fitzgerald river National park is approx 12 miles west of Hopetoun township and 18 miles to the south of the Ravensthorpe townsite, which today is under threat from this fire. There are also a lot of camp ground in the park which where occupied. This is why they where conducting the fire retardant drops, the southerly winds are very strong in this area and can and have push the fire very quickly. So contrary to every one belief we do live in the area.
I think the reasoning in suppressing fires in bushland like this in Australia is not the protection of the bush but the fact fires in this type of terrain can get out of hand and burn for miles and miles, some times hundreds of miles. Australia historically has had humongous fires compared to the US (till recent years anyway). Thankfully the crew survived.
That area of national park has 75 endemic plant species that are found nowhere else in the world. Biodiversity is important in Australia. I agree with the policy of fighting fires there, but obviously they need to do so more safely for personnel. Thanks for the excellent, speedy report Juan.
How do you want them to do that?
99% of all life forms have went extinct. I personally don’t believe it’s worth sacrificing human lives to save some exotic plants.
Australian Native Plant species have developed over Millions of years. Fire, Flood and Drought are all part of their natural life cycles and environment, these plants often need Fire to regenerate efficiently (and clean out the garbage ground litter). I agree with Juan, unless life or property is threatened, why try to put the fires out. Australian Forrest/National Parks services have been blinded to such an extent by Green Ideology that Common Sense and Effective National Parks management has been thrown out the window.
Not good enough, risking human life over some plant species. use the helicopters you already own.. fitted with some farming sprayers, and do it that way if it is so important. Much safer.
@@thetowndrunk988 And what if just one of those plants contains a cure for cancer?
Coming from another angle, it's humans that are now causing a lot of accelerated extinctions. Unless we're prepared to rein in our unsustainable geographic and populations expansions, then we have duty to the planet to address the damage in another way. Luckily there are a number of individuals who - like these pilots - are willing to put themselves in harm's way to help ensure we don't end up as the only species on a barren, empty planet.
Juan, I'm no expert, but Australia has a history of enormous bushfires, partly because so many of the tree species have a high oil content - especially the eucalyptus (gum tree), one of the most common trees in Australia. Gums have so much oil they turn the air into a blue haze in the hotter months. Leaving a fire to potentially grow can mean that by the time it approaches civilization, it's too large to fight, and so whole towns can go up in flames. I suspect that's why they try to restrict the growth of fires in remote areas, before they can grow to a size that's unmanageable.
To give an idea, here's some footage from a Channel 9 cameraman as he tagged along with some firefighters during the 2003 Canberra bushfire. (FYI, Canberra is the capital of Australia - think of it the equivalent of a wildfire on the edge of Washington D.C.) ruclips.net/video/qPpOXH0ADSg/видео.html
Canberra is very far away from Western Australia, and the climate is very different.
I used to do controlled burns and fight wildfires for a living. Waxy vegetation and the high oil content vegetation you commented about can be a nightmare to put out. If you can imagine hundreds of acres on fire that look like someone is setting off giant firework sparklers and those firework fountains that shoot showers of sparks into the air, this is what that type of vegetation looks like when it's on fire.
A great report.
@@gordonrichardson2972 Completely missed the point, congrats.
@@_Jester_ On the contrary. The area shown has no eucalyptus trees, so the original comment is completely irrelevant.
Fitzroy River National Park is important to Aboriginals. This is why. It's not just "scrub land" but an important heritage site.
Nothing quite like a bit of the old casual racism, innit
Fitzgerald national park is world heritage listed.
There are ground crews on site and it is accessible.
“Both pilots survived” my man hitting us with the good news first like a G, thank you
A mate of mine was training to fly that 737 a couple of years ago, said it was the most dangerous job and is no longer doing it. Glad they’re all ok.
It does take the very best of the best to fight wildfires. Some aren’t cut out for it. No shame in knowing this.
Also in Australia you can get wind shift. This is a windy area. A small fire may get blown in a line at say 50kms per hour for 5 hours, then in the evening there is a 90degree wind shift and then you have a 250km wide fire front travelling maybe at 100kms per hour and nothing can stop it or get out of the way. Also with australian bush there can be spotting where burning tree bark is blown ahead of the fire front. Snuffing out the fire early is even in a relatively remote area is important.
I have been reading the comments and here is my two bobs worth. Great news that the pilots survived an airliner/tanker crash, amazing. It is high summer here in Australia and this is not an ideal time to allow fires to run their course. In 2003 a small fire near Canberra was allowed to continue to burn and led to pastures, pine plantations, a major Australian observatory and according to wiki, 470 homes being destroyed.
As far as I can see on the bureau of meteorology web site , the day time temperature around Fitzgerald River national park was around 30 degrees C (86F) and wind blowing at about 30ks (18mph) towards farmland. This is enough to easily get out of control. I believe the winds will be even stronger in the following days. (I live in a flame zone and have experienced a wild fire in cooler temperatures and lighter winds and the authorities were unable to control it as it burnt on several fronts). As to the value to the environment , I dont know of the significance of this area, but vegetation cover plays an important role in preventing erosion. During summer when strong westerly winds blow, Sydney receives a coating of fine yellow or red dust from across Australia . The dust has even been detected in NZ. Australian authorities have a record of apathy in relation to its fauna and flora. I believe australia has lost more mammals to extinction than any other continent in the world in its short european history. ie koalas are now classed as endangered but the logging of their habitat continues, so I don't believe the fire fighting that took place here was based on "saving the environment".
This flight may have been a training run, but this is unlikely as we are in our fire season and low level "grassland" type fires can travel very quickly across open ground. As someone commented earlier on , we may never know all the facts due to the authorities "cone of silence".
It looks like a lot of the terrain and scrub we have here in the Texas Panhandle. Sometimes you need all the help you can get especially if it gets as windy there as it does here.
As an Australian, with limited firefighting experience (mines rescue) the reason bushfires are fought in these areas is because when they are left to burn at the end of the dry season they can grow into very fast moving fires with huge fronts (ie 100km fire fronts have been seen before). In addition, the are you are looking at is close to some extremely old growth Forrests, and while the area is very lowly populated, if the fire escapes containment, it can threaten those populations with a fire to which there is no escape leading to very preventable loss of life
The fire we had around the corner in Margaret River in maybe 2011? Caused a heap of damage and destroyed part of the town. At this time the Black Saturday fires of 2009 were still very fresh in the memories of all Australians and how many people lost their lives because of an unexpected wind change
At last I can say, hello from SW Australia 🙂
Oddly enough this hasn't been widely reported here, and I still haven't seen any images of the crash site.
Generally speaking, all fires are fought to some extent. The only ones that are left to burn are in the most remote areas of the state of Western Australia. Believe it or not, this area is NOT considered remote as there is farmland and a few small towns in the area.
It appeared on the ABC news website earlier today, complete with pics.
@@steeltrap3800There was nothing in the SA news either! Caught it on 7’s YT channel
@@PN_48 Peculiar
yeah end Fitzgerald river NP and surrounding bushland is a biodiversity hotspot, home to loads of endemic species and the endangered western ground parrot which get royally fucked over from bushfires.
I live in Western Australia, about 20nm north east from Busselton where the plane departed from. To the uninformed, I can appreciate why the question would be asked, “What is the mission here?” That is, why are we trying to fight a fire in such a God forsaken part of the planet where there are relatively few human inhabitants? As others have said, there are a lot of rare species of flora and fauna. And little fires usually become big fires if not contained. Good overview of this accident. Us pilots here in WA have our thoughts. But hopefully the truth will come out. I suspect there was not mechanical failure. Great the pilots walked away and can give great insight into this accident and how to avoid it in the future.
There is lots of desert and large areas of flora that grow between that and the ocean. So this in some places is the only large area of protection for fauna. Just because it doesn't look amazing doesn't mean it's not very important
But fires are normal in the area. Contrary to popular belief, fires in ecosystems that are adapted to burns are a good thing.
@@ryanspencer6778 love when the geniuses pipe in who clearly know more than the fire authorities
Worth dying over in an Air tanker? No.
Juan is correct. Let it burn and protect housing etc. it’s nature way of ecological succession. Australia is full of tree huggers that’s why
@@blancolirio simply don’t be a bad pilot and crash
Juan - Only bright spot other than the fire of course, is the fact it didn't cost lives of couple of brave firefighter aviators to save those scrub bushes this time!! Thanks for video Sir!
When I clicked on this video I did not expect to hear the crew survived. Absolutely incredible news and nearly brought me to tears! Reading through the comments it seems this is an extremely valuable portion of land for Australia. Thanks to everyone risking their lives to keep it safe!
I love your work Juan, but you'll learn very quickly not to tell a West Australian that they're bushland is not worth fighting for. 😂
No shit….lol…they have a lot to learn about the effective use of air tankers. Unfortunately just getting good people killed.
I think the idea is to attack the fire early in an attempt to stop it while you still can. Just letting them burn, and hoping it doesn't threaten life and property later, probably won't end well. Particularly in an Australian summer.
Regarding the question of what we are trying to protect. I am not a firefighter, but as Australian lived through to so many significant fires. The issue in Australia is a fire in major parks can build up a lot of speed, and what a lot of people don’t understand is that some of the vegetation in Australia can explore at high temperatures. If a fire has an extensive front and moves quickly with the wind (and that area is around the roaring 40s, a significant Southern Ocean wind stream), these fires can jump ahead very rapidly and then break out of parts and become so big that townships can’t be protected. So, in summary, if a fire in a large vegetation area is not contained, it can rapidly become out of control and very deadly.
Juan - you only have to look at the summer 2020 fire season in Australia to see why we fight fires in National Parks down here. Also National Parks do have an economic value.
Someone else said this, but even not living in Australia, I can tell you that their fires blow up pretty easily. I believe 2009 is still the worst year for loss of life on record with the Black Saturday Bushfires, with the worst day being the seventh of February that year. Around 173 people were killed in the fires that started and/or burned out of control. It was the impetus for a major reform in how fire is handled in Australia- many of the people who lost their lives had what were considered at the time to be solid plans and defenses. Houses built to withstand brush fires were destroyed- one in particular barely managed to hang on through the blaze and collapsed the moment the homeowner left to survey the damage, leaving him feeling incredibly lucky. Survival depended more on early evacuation and luck than anything else. Anything you need to know about a given disaster, I probably know, and if I don't now I will soon.
The local press have said the following about the Fitzgerald River National Park fire "A bushfire watch and act remains in place, with a fast-moving blaze threatening lives and homes." You should not assume that this fire was confined to remote areas.
Hi Juan ,
It’s not just scrub being protected , here is an extract from the National Parks website:
“About this park:
Fitzgerald River National Park boasts a rich diversity of native and rare plant species. It's one of Australia's largest parks and home to 75 species of endemic plants, found nowhere else. “
Apart from that the second point is it’s better to fight the fire through accessible country before it heads into inaccessible country.
Cheers Juan
Juan, they put these fires out as soon as they can quickly get out of control very, very quickly and burn large areas of more closely populated areas. Loss of property and, more importantly, loss of lives results if not dealt with.
So happy the crew survived! God bless them.
a little flippant with the "what are they protecting comment". The area has a great deal of endangered and protected species and prevailing winds in that area would push the fire toward a number of townships near ravensthorp. I understand it a shame that it was very close to being a fatality but the land is valuable to many. the fire authority manage the fire direction and intensity to control the burn which is why the drops are required.
It's designed to burn.
@@blancolirio they're managing the burn to benefit the environment and the settlements. hence the air drops.
@blancolirio you're 100% right, that area of natural bushland can deal with fire, and are typically burnt in a controlled fashion in the cooler months. The problem here is if these fires are left to their own devices the front will grow to a size where it can't be stopped and they can (and have) destroyed entire towns.
That fire is near Ravensthorpe Western Australia. I believe that the fire was threatening the town and the suppression of the fire was for that rather than just trying to protect wilderness.
Thanks again Juan for another fast report on this. Very glad that the pilots survived. What they are doing is most definitely a dangerous kind of flying.
these guys are fucking heroes in Australia
Damn good to hear the crew survived!
Whatever the circumstances its refreshing to hear that the guys survived. This is dangerous work which you don't normally 'walk away from'.
The reason why the Fire Authorities want to suppress fire in this sort of terrain is to control the potential rate of spread in the fuel loads contained in this sort of scrubland/bush areas. Strong winds would drive fire fronts to uncontrollable levels possibly impacting townships living near these coastal areas putting lives at risk. Firefighters would be on the ground in the area the Aircraft was operating back burning areas and working with Dozers to create fire breaks to contain the fire to a nominated area with the retardant drops from the aircraft halting the spread.
I grew up in chico ca and I remember in 04ish when a fire plane was doing touch and go's at the chico field... I was living in a house at the south east side of the runway about a mile away... so I was right in their flight training path...
I remember them doing about 6 or 7 runs and that last one they were way to low... my walls were shaking and I ran out back because I thought they were going to come down in the area but they tried to climb cohasset ridge and didn't make it... 3/4 to the top...
growing up in that area I had thousands of fly over by air force u2 (did touch and go's in chico) and fire planes... that last one was the lowest ever... I still don't know how high they were when above me but it couldn't have been much...
sad thing it was their last run of the day since it was close to sun set... guys are crazy doing that job... but thank god for them...
We don't have the infrastructure here in West Aus. We have airtractors and old helicopters for water bombers, that's why we turned to America for help. I lived in Esperance as a teenager and if there's one thing i remember about Esperance is the wind! That particular bush land burns hot and fast, if we don't keep on top of it there'll be no stopping it.
3:39 - basically the plot of Top Gun Maverick
Thanks Juan for picking up on my message. What's really weird about this major crash is it's not featured at all on the News in Australia. No pictures, no witnesses, no one is talking at all. And correct this is the second air tanker crash in Australia in a few years. I have read mixed reports related to the age of the 737. Some websites show a new model 737 yet on Flight Radar info its a 27 year old aircraft. If this is like the previous air tanker crash here and not much is said there may be a code of silence within the companies doing this style of work. It's incredible the flight crew survived the crash. But I bet we won't hear a peep from them.
Hi Leo, this is covered extensively in the West Australian newspapers. Try WAToday
Greetings Leo, it will be a lot to do with the remoteness of the crash site. For certain though, the entire crash sequence will have been filmed. I recently retired from firebombing in Vic, Austtralia and noticed in the last few years it became pretty mormal to film just about every drop. And particularly with the LATs and VLATs. Probably to evaluate the drops and document any incidents.
It’s in both the major Sydney and Melbourne newspapers this morning AEST.
weve heard about it over here yesterday eve in nsw
The Age couldn’t go five minutes without updating the tennis last week, but two people survive a plane crash and it’s crickets. SMH.
👍☑fantastic and fast reporting Juan, tks for all the effort you put into these!
I have no idea what the situation is down under with this particular area, but it is an unfortunate fact that significantly accelerated fire frequency, well beyond the ability for even "fire-adapted" plant communities to recover from, is resulting in complete ecological destruction and type conversion to non-native grasses and weeds. This quickly leads to habitat obliteration, desertification, increased erosion, and loss of species. I guess it's possible that this was a preserve in danger of being lost to fire (the shrubland looked very clean), but that's pure speculation. Thankful they survived🙏
Last year, 5000+ Livestock and multiple homes were lost to fire in that same area when the wind changed directions. There was over 800,000 lightening strikes in the state that day causing fires. These scrub fires seem to burn very hot and fast. Resources used last year were not adequate and possibly they needed to try something different to avoid a repeat of last February's disaster.
I think the fire commanders got their fingers burnt during the Gospers Mountain fire near me. They let a relatively small fire in a very remote area burn. The end result was the biggest fire by area in the states history. Many houses and public buildings were lost when the fire came out of the remote area. I think the reasoning now is shoot first and ask questions later.
There’s a 2020 comedy-drama movie called “Rams” that plays in that general area of Western Australia. They show the farmers all organizing and fighting wildfire. From what I saw on my last trip to Australia, if you don’t try stopping the bush fires they’ll run straight to the ocean.
Juan - there are extensive agricultural areas to the north, west and east of that national park - if they can't control the fire within the park it then poses a threat to those valuable agricultural areas.
Australian bushfires like many other places like California, if you don't get to it early then its going to get out of control real quick! its not about protecting that area its about snuffing it out early and even then sometimes the best efforts wont be enough if there is high wind speed involved
Juan, I absolutely love your content and truly appreciate the aviation expertise that you bring to the table on each and every examination of tragic incidents like this one. I am a huge fan.
At around 2:36 you ask some very interesting questions that struck a nerve with me.
I am a 51 year old, Career wildland firefighter born and raised in California and have fought wildfires from Alaska to Florida, from Canada to Mexico and nearly every county in California over the last 34 years.
You basically asked why are we risking lives to fight these remote fires when they pose no threat to lives or property? I can tell you, and I know you know it, in California if we do not aggressively attack every single new start, it could become the next Dixie fire, Or Caldor fire, Or Butte fire, Or King fire, Or Dardanelles fire.
My simple point is we can not try to assess each fire (in California at least) on wether or not it has potential to go big. Certain federal agencies have tried to out think mother nature in the past and decide which fires to “manage” and which fires to put out and it’s a risky game when you are betting everything on what the weather will be like a month or two from now. Thanks to 150 years of fire exclusion, every single fire start has the potential to be the next big fire. The fuels we are dealing with today are not “natural.” They are a product of excluding beneficial fires for well over a century. Fuels reduction needs to be where we go from here, not a “let burn” policy.
The fact the pilot and copilot didn’t die in this instance is amazing. Very few fire fighting aviation crashes have survivors and I hope nobody reading this thinks a single fatality is an acceptable loss to put out a wildfire.
I’m sorry for the rant, and I hope nobody wants to blame recent wildfires on “climate change” because that political nonsense just doesn’t hold water.
Thankful the crew survived...thanks once again, Juan.
Good question on why they are fighting fire here...normally protecting life and property closer to Perth or country towns. Probably thought have the aircraft might as well use it.
So glad to hear they survived - a miracle. Look forward to hearing what happened.
Glad the pilots survived!
Glad the crew is still with us.
You're right, flat terrain and low scrub. Just saw photos of the wreck, pretty much all ash, just the tail end survived. Thank God the Pilots are ok. There are a few scarcely populated towns near the crash site on the coast. I live in Western Australia.
Just seen the ABC report here on RUclips, the aircraft is burnt out but all 4 corners are in one place with some few hundred metres of slide trails behind it. The weird thing is that the post crash fire is contained despite there being lots of scrub around the crash site and it being close to the existing bush fires.
There are small towns down that way. I’m glad they survived
Busselton. Your really on the job Juan. Good job. Will look forward to the full report.
Love your videos. If you have to come back to this incident, the town they left from is pronounced 'Bus-L-ton'. There is also farming, and small towns all around that area. Plus it's been really hot, and dry, and they probably want to get control of a fire before they lose control of a fire. List of 10 0f the largest BUSH/Forrest fires in 21st Century, 4 are Australian, 3 for Russia, and one each for USA and Canada. Highest death toll from the same list is 173 lives lost in 2009-Black Saturday Bush Fire. Australia sits at number 1 with over 332,000 km2 area of burns. I believe that you are always concerned with loss of life, and understand totally why you questioned the need for air drops. There is a You Tube video- '2019 Bush fire-running for their lives'-(use for search) which shows that within 3 minutes, how quickly firefighters had to leave an area that initially only showed smoke in the distance. Worth the watch.
Happy they 'walked away' from that one.
Flown both C130 and B737 years ago. IMO: The Herc just does tactical low n slow better - those turboprop Allisons running at 100% rpm are quick to blow lift over that fat wing. You could be right with the B737 [swept wing / roll spoiler lift dump/engine spoil up lag] learning curve. I'm guessing the B737 is cheaper to operate, but it wouldn't be my weapon of choice.
Reasons for protecting that area of WA are sound and well outlined by others.
A most excellent point by blancolirio regarding "why are they protecting scrub". It will be interesting to see a follow-up to this incident, including progress of the recovery of the pilots from their injuries. As always, great content, production and presentation by blancolirio.
there not protecting the scrub as a primary reason for the response, they are protecting all the assets around the fire that may get impacted if the fire gets out of control, you would rather fight the fire in the forest & national parks than fight the fire in suburbia
So glad the crew survived! Thanks for this.
No big deal, but I missed your usual outro music, Weightless, by Badrosian. I just love that track!
Some of these birds work Canada in the summer and migrate south to serve the Aussies in our winter. Such brave crews; it’s a relief to hear they survived.
There are no 737’s on firefighting contracts in Canada.
One in my backyard! Glad to know the pilots survived, good fortune to them.
I work in the aviation industry and the company I work for shares a hangar which is a maintenance facility anyway was at smoko on Monday morning and this came up in conversation and the chief engineer said that these ex airliners when they're converted to firebombing whilst they do a great job are being put into operations that they weren't really designed for and traditionally they're not known for high maneuverability or responsiveness so it wasn't a matter of if but when something like this was going to happen that being said it is absolutely fantastic that the crew were able to walk away from this
Southern WA has been burning for months now, it doesn't seem unusual (since 2019) to respond aircraft instead of diverting more tankers hours out of their way, to my knowledge, WA also doesn't have a huge bush firefighting resource pool. While the crash is frightening, it isn't really strange for the plane to be there.
Australia has some of the last untouched virgin bushland in the world.
That is what's being protected.
Thanks Juan for this report. I learned of this from you, nothing on our Oz sites atm.
Coulson actually got the STC for the 737-300 fire tanker conversion in 2018 so it's not really brand new. But controlled flight into the ground sounds right.
So awesome to hear the pilots made it!! 🙏🏼
I am surprised he didn't show the crash sight picture. It clearly skidded along the ground to a halt.
We flew out of Busselton on Saturday and saw both Coulson planes on the ramp, couldn’t believe we lost another a few days later.
Aloha hugs 🤗 they survived thats amazing 👏
As a Police Officer, i lived in Ravensthorpe for 4 years Juan and i can tell you, other than extremely unique flora in the park there is 'nothing' out there that needs to be protected to the extent of requiring aerial assets/support. Gotta wonder. The terrain out there can be be quite hilly however this area is often subject of strong onshire southern winds. Glad the crew are ok
Miracles thankfully happen. So glad to learn the pilots survived the accident. A lot of valuable data will come from their interviews. Hoping the black boxes were recoverable.
Former WN 300 on which I have had the pleasure of working on.
I’m an Australian. All that matters to me is that the pilots walked away. Fire fighting planes and helicopters have saved my house twice in 20 years.
Thanks for a good report. Glad to know the pilots survived. The new 737s sound good so long as there is good training for the pilots. I thought of the air tanker crews when I found some reports of the bad fires also happening in Chile. Wonder if we can lend a hand there, too? So many crazy things going on in the world. Hang in there, people.
These are not new 737s, they are newly converted 737-300s which first went into airline service in the early 80's, so not Max's if you were thinking that.
Second crash for Coulson's in 3 years doesn't bode well. Coulson were found to have breached safety guidelines after a C130 went down in 2020 in NSW Australia, the ATSB found they had insufficient risk management processes in place and did not include "windshear recovery procedure in their C130 Airplane Flight Manual". Be interesting if something similar is found to be the case here.
The ATSB also found that "the forecast and actual weather conditions present in the Snowy Mountains region were hazardous, with strong gusting winds and mountain wave activity, producing turbulence....Despite an awareness of these conditions and that all other fire‑control aircraft (including a Boeing 737 large air tanker) were not operating in the area at the time due to the weather conditions, the New South Wales Rural Fire Service (RFS) continued with their tasking of N134CG to Adaminaby without aerial supervision (birddog). In addition, they relied on the pilot in command to assess the appropriateness of the tasking but did not provide them all the available information to make an informed decision on flight safety. That information for the tasking to Adaminaby should have included details about actual hazardous environmental conditions, resulting in the cessation of local aerial operations, the birddog pilot declining the tasking due to the forecast weather conditions, and a report from the Boeing 737 crew that conditions precluded them from returning to the fire-ground." From the ATSB final report on the 2020 crash.
Mission, (1) It is summer, strong easterly winds are the order of the day and night, it's hot. If left uncontrolled it can quickly reach town sites ( in this case Ravensthorpe ) and farmers fields that have freshly harvested wheat so dry stubble or sheep/cattle paddocks that are dry. So you are protecting People, Livestock, Property. (2) The Fitzgerald River National Park is a biodiversity hot spot with some of the highest density of fauna and flora for example the critically endanged ground parrot. (3) Erosion, if lightening fires are left uncontrolled our coastal sands would simply turn to desert from the coastal winds. As a side note on a bad day ie heat and wind we would expect spark jumps to be several hundred metres, time becomes a real issue and this is where air power is critical to putting out a fire quickly
Juan.... How do you do these AMAZING breakdowns of aviation incidents so quickly? I think we need a behind the scenes. I've been watching your channel since Orville. Love your passion and expertise.
although it looks barren i’m sure there is stuff to protect,road and rail
as Australians we will be for ever grateful to the 3 men who came to help and didn’t get to go home
every 23rd of Dec i remember those men
what do you mean barren! it's dense diverse heath, the place is condensed with amazing unique forms of life and is absolutely worth trying to save
Crazy. Coulson headquarters are here in my home town of Port Alberni BC. They are historically known for running the old Martin Mars waterbombers here in BC Canada. Currently they modify jet aircraft for firefighting.
Amazing these pilots survived. Hope to hear more details
WOW would like to see an update on this once more information is available....Praise for the two that survived & how!! Thank you Juan for always great reporting on these aviation mishaps!
So happy the crew made it!!!
My first reaction was "Oh s#!t", that turned into joy when I heard they walked away from it.
That qualifies like a good landing, right?
“Survived” and “Walked away” are two different things. Did the crew walk away?
@@savage6394 According to the news reports they were essentially uninjured, looks like the cockpit area didn't hit anything and the fuselage was intact enough for the doors to open normally. Post crash fire then burnt out everything but the tail and part of the right wing, right engine seemed mostly intact too.
@@savage6394
You can see them in this video, they walked themselves into the hospital:
ruclips.net/video/c2EuJyCNlfM/видео.html
Of course they should and must protect a National Park.
The only odd thing here is that they were unable to do their job right.
Thankful both pilots survived.
The south west of Western Australia is a world heritage biodiversity area and has more species of unique flora than some entire countries. The ranges of these plants has been severely restricted by agriculture and these pockets are all that is left.
People risk their lives putting out fires in old buildings why not areas such as this?
I live in Perth. Western Australia and have driven extensively in the South West and it is definitely worth saving.
Two pilots crash a jet airliner while putting out a fire, then walking out of the burning wreckage nearly unscathed is the most australian thing I have heard
Obviously a highly intelligent Aircraft Fire Fighting Specialist “without a single clue or care about the the SW West. Australian unique biodiversity “ . Then you wouldn’t ask what’s the point?
Oh wow. Hope the crew is doing well. A rare glimpse into events to come for sure.
Bush fires spread rapidly in Australia and quickly become uncontrollable. The country is basically covered in preheated kindling. Gotta keep all Bush fires under control. They don't just stop on their own here. Also lots of wildlife to protect that our people care very much about.
Thanks Juan
There is an image of the wreckage burning. The airframe was snapped aft of the wing but relatively intact elsewhere. They must have been slow and level at the point of impact.