The Lost throws of Judo
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- Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2020
- This video discusses some of the rare and lost throws found in Kyuzo Mifune's book Canon of Judo.
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1:35 - Ganseki Otoshi(cross grab)
2:50 - Tama guruma (sacrifice throw over your shoulders)
3:40 - Kata guruma(to compare with tama)
4:35 - Tobi goshi (jumping hip throw)
5:45 - Ushiro guruma(lifting someone bear hugging you from behind + sideway throw)
7:10 - Conclusion
Choke hold(2:12) is Baseball (bat) choke. It was called "Bat jime" in Japan.
Yess!! You sound much better, brother. I'm deeply happy for you.
Thank you Shayan👊🏻🙏🏻
I like what you said about standing chokes. Even if they're illegal in randori, they should be part of the judo curriculum.
And the "X"-shaped grabbing of the lapel at 1:42 is extremely effective, I tried it only once outside randori, and as a lanky green belt, it was the closest I've ever gotten to a decent standing seoi nage. And it goes so well with other throws too.
That's awesome
My dad was part of a short lived judo club when he was in school. It was run by a teacher who was a judo hobbyist. Now i´m teaching karate to my family and we were doing some grappling and my dad showed me something very similar to the first 2 techniques you showed, where you did the takedown as in the first one but finished the cross choke once the opponent was on the ground. Now i find out that technique was "lost". Weird huh?
Not many know about
Insightful Chadi. Thank you for producing great videos on the subject of Judo. My father would have been pleased to meet you.
It’s an honour
The first example in the video reminds me of the “baseball bat choke” in BJJ. Same grips. Almost identical movement and result form the ground!
I’m endlessly fascinated by your videos.
Thank you Jason🙇🏻♂️
Keeps making me wonder what is so Brazilian about BJJ. The public gets the impression that Brazilians invented it. They trained an Asian art to the max and made many variations in techniques but in my opinion not to the point of cultural appropriation. Japanese gonna train western boxing and samba and call it Japanese boxing and Japanese samba
Awesome work brother, hope you recuperate well and soon!
Thank you
Hey Chadi
You got it
Glad to hear that you are getting better. Make sure to still get plenty of rest and take care of yourself.
Thank you 🙇🏻♂️
This is fascinating. I'm sorry to hear you've not been well, what has been the problem,
The Te Gatame was one of my favourites. Not sure if it's legal anymore, but it was one hell of a surprising technique. Some techniques fell into oblivion, even if they were part of the curriculum. The simply weren't useful. Others died out due to rule changes.
Exactly
thank you so much for sharing
Thank you Daniel
Excellent video! Many of the old variations have been lost to modern Judo practitioners. Tamaguruma is one example as there is also other slight modifications that can be applied for this throw that have been disregarded in favor of the Olympic style applications. The Olympic variations are nice but can put you in a bad position in a grappling match outside of Judo rules. Wish the Olympic committee would bring some of the banned and disregarded throws / newaza back! Thanks again!
Thank you Diane
Nice video Chadi!!! I was hoping for a video like this talking about the lost throws of Judo. As far as I have read, some of the reasons why many of this throws have been lost in the sands of time, is beacuse of the politics of the Kodokan in the organization of the Gokyo itself, in each of its five sets.
A lot of this techniques, even tough they were inherited from old schools of jujutsu, the Kodokan re-classified them as mere variations of other throws, for example the "Ganseki Otoshi" belongs to a Koryu (old school of jujutsu) but in Toshiro Diago´s book "Kodokan Throwing techniques" is was described as a variation of the Morote Seoi Nage.
Something similar happened to Ude Gaeshi wich in that same book was described as a variation of Daki Wakare, and Tama Guruma wich was seen as variation of Kata Guruma.
Other throws that suffered this same fate were Te Gaeshi (described by Toshiro Daigo as a variation of the principle of Tani Otoshi), Waki Otoshi ( described by Robert Van De Walle´s "Pick ups" as a midpoint between Tani otoshi and Sukui Nage), and a variation of Hane Goshi entering in the same way of Osoto Gari (Some pictures in Toshiro Diago´s "Kodokan
Throwing techniques" shows how is performed)
I'm glad your health is getting better Chadi 💪💪💪, I´m really happy for you 👍
I agree! Thank you very much
i thought at beginning about forbidden techniques, but this is other thing
These are rare throws no one uses
thank you chadi a lot
Thank you Fouad
.. Very nice and thank you. As an old ex-Judoka, I appreciate such video's and explanations ...
Thank you Martin
You are never an "Ex" anything. While you may not actively study anymore. The knowledge is always there.
Aikido has a ganseki otoshi which is almost "lost" as well. The entry is slightly different than judo's version as uke ends up back-to-back with tori, but the mechanics of the throwing movement after the load-up are identical. In aikido's version, uke is forced to take a blind ukemi, so I've only seen it demonstrated in-person on one occasion, and video clips of it are nearly as rare.
That tama gurma. I remember that. When I was younger, we had a guest Sensei, come in and teach. Wish I could remember his name. Thanks for this video
You're welcome
Good staff!!!
I love ALL TAKEDWONS THAT EXISTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
😍😍😍😍😍
Same ❤
Nice DJ Chadi the honey 🍯 lemon 🍋 and ginger must be working stay strong OSS!
Oss
They look like transition throws to me!! If there is such a thing! CHAD!! My Latin French brother!!
Ganseki Otoshi 1:39
Tama Guruma 2:50
Tobi-Goshi 4:36
Good video !
Thank you Ahmed
Hell!! Yeah!! I support you!! You are God of judo history!!
Thank you Ramon I'm still learning
These are all good moves for modern BJJ, I'm going to practice these and see what I like.
Go for it
Lovely
Hello Chadi, i recently discovered your channel and it is absolutely amazing! High quality content. Do you have any tips how i can learn more about the techniques of Kosen Judo? Is there a book or a DVD you can recommend? Keep up the great work. Best regards from Germany
Thank you very much! I suggest you look into the old Kanae Hirata DVD, look up "kosen osaekomi" or "kosen kansetsu" on RUclips
Great tip, thank you 💪
Hello Chadi! I will be studying in Japan starting in Januaryy. Is there any place where I can train Kosen judo or is it only available in universities?
Only in universities! But i think you can train with them
Which part of Japan?
@@Chadi thank you for replying. I Will check it out
@@mpforeverunlimited in Tokyo
Are you from Pakistan?
I don’t do judo but I can see similarities in our taiji system
Ganseki otoshi was shown to me by my judo master Ahad in Rhodes it felt very easy to do with my body type.
Bring it back to life, it's your duty
@@Chadi hehe I try
I was hoping you would show the whole video of Isitzu. We teach this to black belts at my school but I've only seen the video of Kano doing it. I've not seen the full one of Mifune.
Hello all,
I have been very busy. Thanks for uploading this video.
Thank you Stephen
i think on ushiro guruma you’d sacrifice a lot your knee throwing that direction
And hips need to be flexible
Judo throws are pretty good, but the Judo chop is the best.
Lol
In Israel the new Kata Guruma is unanimously called Tama Guruma!
Good to know
Palestine!!!!
Hey Chadi,
Love your videos.
Quick question.
Do you know what dojo is this video shot in?
Is it the kodokan?
And what year?
Thanks
Hello Mike, i believe i believe this was circa 1955, not sure if this the Kodokan
Are these found in other jujutsu? I also had a doubt whether the Tama guruma can be sprawled since we aren't actually going under the opponent?
is there any instructional on ushiro guruma?
You sound healthier, hope you're doing better
I am, thank you 🙇🏻♂️
Chadi, today master Beto Leitão died. Can you make a video about him, please?
For sure
Roberto Leitão. He's trained a lot of people and people aren't even aware of it. He trained Mark Kerr and Coleman in Brazil.
OMG!!!
🙇🏻♂️
Hey chadi , how's your health now ?
A lot better, thank you
Can you make a video about legal kata guruma variation
Sure
the challenge is knees hitting the mat. Knees on mat are ok. Knees on concrete or asphalt or hardwood floor not so great.
Tama Guruma is also the Greco-Roman variant...well because leg grabbing is also not allowed
True
In my View the last trow is done after kick in growing if you look closer. And it is in known in some elderly ways. And little similarities with trowing by the todays book? Am I only who see it or there is something I didn't get?
Do you know which country's judo you made videos on? I know you did Mongolian, but any others?
Georgia and Russia
@@Chadi thanks. Are you going to do any more?
@@mpforeverunlimited yes English judo
Olá, estava pesquisando contragolpes e me deparei com uma técnica denominada ashi-makkomi , e kaeshi-waza aplicada contra o(o-soto-gari). Porém era um desenho e eu não consegui decifrá-lo. Tem como demonstrá-la: caso for possível? [Hello, I was researching counterattacks and came across a technique called ashi-makkomi, and kaeshi-waza applied against soto-gari. But it was a drawing and I couldn't decipher it. Is there any way to demonstrate it: if you know it?]
Ganseki otoshi is also the name of one of the ganseki throws from ninjutsu... Its a tottally different technique... There are at least 4... Ganseki nage, ganseki otoshi, ganseki ori and one more that i dont remember the name... Those are different throws. Don with a special ninjutsu grip, each of them has different objectives but all start the same
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for making so many good videos💕
@@gingercore69 thank you for always watching🙇🏻♂️🙏🏻
We also had a technique called Ganseki Otoshi in Aikijutsu. It was a variation of Shiho Nage with a high breakfall. I think the common denominator is that you hit the mat hard.
@@ambulocetusnatans interesting :o
The ganseki otoshi in ninjutsu is not as."hard hiting" but its an "armlock like" throw so... It has that "sumo"/"aikijutsu" flavor... With a little "westerm wrestling" on top of it
I was wondering can you tell us people who love Aikido what is Aikibudo??
I think that after Gigoro Kano, I have to Mr. Mifune, was and always will be the greatest representative of true judo. Theo best
Agreed
Kata guruma you grab the leg to prevent a sprawl.
But now it's illegal to grab below the belt
Yes in competitive Judo not in self defense Judo.
Judo... The art of controlling one's own and the opponents gyroscope
Exactly
@@Chadi great video BTW. I started judo 1981 at the age of 10. But sadly I got caught up with this Bruce Lee shit and stopped judo after 5-6 years. Kept doing TaeKwonDo until 2000. I love taekwondo. But I really regret stopping judo. Thanks for the great video ❤️from Thailand 🇹🇭
Tama garuma looks like a football tackle.
Really??
@@Chadi Come on Chadi you're French; the home of Platini and Zidane. I'm sure you've seen tackles like that before. Not exactly but close :)
The ability to distinguish between Judo (importance like Boxing) and Jiu Jitsu is critical. Not POT (Plain Old Telephone) capabilities.
Ganseki Otoshi looks like a Korean/reverse seoi nage
You're right
@@Chadi would you go as far as to say their the same?
@@armaankhokhar7651 no i wouldn't, reverse seoi nage functions on the principle of the lapel torsion which in return will cause uke to coil and spin into the Ippon
I always thought the Rock Drop had been banned due to broken necks. I have no citations to verify that.
I learned that technique in my Jujutsu / Judo class decades ago. Working with Judoka many years later, found it to be rarely taught in the local clubs as it was deemed too dangerous for sport, as I was told. 😔
I doubt it can break necks
In the Bujinkan we have: Ganseki Otoshi, Ganseki Nage, Ganseki Ori and Ganseki Oshi.
ruclips.net/video/ZV6XFY9juyA/видео.html
any throw that requires going to the ground on your back is full of danger. Better know what you are falling on and if your opponent has compatriots ready to kick you when you are down. No ancient fighter wearing heavy armor is going to do such a thing. very difficult to regain footing. and easy to get speared while down.
RIP...November 28, 2020..Master Roberto Leitão, a technician in Luta Livre and 4th degree blackbelt in Judo,.He dedicated himself to flawless technique.....en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Leit%C3%A3o
I'm making a video as we speak
Tchungu la philosophie de combat libre...technique de combat armonieux unissant les noeuds du gests ultimes. ...fondé par le maître fondateur Mr Bouabaid charkaoui....Morrocan SPORT
KASHIWAZAKI - UKI WAZA
It's not a lost throw though
@@Chadi i think he makes it different with these extra steps
Karate throws are way less defined, judokas change name depending on grip, in karate it's more like "just grab whatever and then do this"
edit: a lot of this throws seem useful and not illegal, why do you think they are forgotten/not used?
Kano sensei spent his life defining them
Judo is originally coming from India.
Here the Sanskrit in the Japanese language.
Much of the beauty of the Judo were pushed out of modern Judo, because this ancient techniques are not practical to the competition. I am not saying the ancient techniques are not effectives, but are not practical to the competition. For the same reason, the self defense techniques are abolitioned of the diary judo training, because the focus of many dojos are simply is to make fighters. Today, many of the techniques of the Ancient Judo are only studied for people that want to know the Spirit of this martial art. Congratulations to share your searchs about ancient techniques about Judo
If it's illegal it's probably due too it being unaesthetic.
aint gonna lie im def alot more afraid of a judoka vs a bjj guy
From what I have been able to research, much of what Judo, is came from the teachings of Jujutsu. Look up it's founder, Jigoro Kano. It seems much has been removed from what we now know as Judo. Including strikes.
Judo nowadays is not "ju", it's "go". So much power in there .
I agree
We lost point of it
Judo is a complete grappling art the western world and Olympic ruined it
We need a new curriculum
They are not lost, they are abandoned, because they are not efficient for todays fierce competition.
At the beginning of Judo in Europe, Japanese masters perform it in randories with Europeans thanks to huge differences in knowledge and experience,
but no anymore.
Also at that time Japanese promote doctrine that physically power and body mass, does mean nothing in Judo, Judo is magic that overcome it.
Since dutch man Antoan Gessing become first European World Judo Chanpion they abandoned the doctrine , gradually increase number of categories
and implement new rules as( do not touch opponent legs with arms) to block Europeans power on tatami.
But all in wain, Judo is dethrone.
PS
Ordinary Mongolian wrestler win over famous Suzuky, when he was All Japan Champion, in first minute, catch his leg and landed him on back.
After this event is implemented rule "do not touch opponents legs".