@@sndsunderstagel3114 i think he meant that most stand user is someone who can legit got killed with only a gun, edit : 200 likes? Man thats like the most amount of likes i've ever received tysm
This is true, but people in the world of JJBA don't seem to realize that in their world, a gun would be more effectively utilized by directly beating someone with it rather than trying to shoot them (like THAT ever works).
It'll be cool to have a character who's only ability is to see other stands. Without a stand to fight back that character would have to use assassination to kill the user without altering the stand.
@@harleyjamesjenkinson7653 it's be cool seeing someone kill Stan users with traps and clever schemes. Imagine Kira but instead of Stan abilities it is actual bombs and hitmen
Summed up: stands themselves normally can’t be beaten or hurt through physical means, however any physical object,being or attack outputting more force then the stand can stop will ultimately bypass the stand being able to go through it, even if the stand itself does not take damage or get effected by the force.
Additionally, it plays into the user choosing whether to make their stand corporeal or not, making it so instead of said "attack" being able to hit stand, its rather the stand making itself hittable as its likely more durable then meatbag human
Also, Joseph warned Kakyoin that his stand would be ripped apart if he tried to hold an entire car with it. (This was when the car that they were in was pushed off a cliff by Wheel of Fortune.) This implies that if a user tries to block a physical attack with their stand and their stand isn’t strong enough, the stand could be directly damaged.
The thing some Jojo fans forget about is that in a fight with a stand user, it doesn’t matter if you can ‘beat the stand’, but if you can get to the (very mortal) user
I mean, causing damage to the stand directly reflects it to the user, so if the stand would be easier to kill than the user themselves, you can kill the stand and it will kill the person
@@brodiesaltsman2842 yes, but that’s not the point. In a vs match, it depends on if a character can actually affect the stand themself and if not, can they overwhelm and/or work around it to damage the user which will invariably be damagable
I think this video is pointless since it's pretty much already established that if you kill the user, most of the times the stand dies. There are exceptions where the stand is independent to the user, but they are minimal. Also there are a lot of cases of them facing a long range stand, and they always try to find the user to defeat them
If I remember right, stands operate under selective intangibility, an "I can touch you but you can't touch me" with physical matter. The exception I believe is when a stand uses a physical object as a weapon against another stand, but this happens categorically
@@wildbard4112 Personally, I feel like the most logical way to interpret it is that stands can be affected by physical objects and stuff, it's just that they can't take permanent damage unless it's from a stand. Kinda like how you can beat the shit out of a werewolf or vampire, but you aren't going to do more than physically toss them around unless you're using silver/holy weapons. Or in this series case, like hamon against vampires.
The “physical weapon wielded by a stand” thing is funky, but it checks out. At the end of Part 5 Mista fires bullets at King Crimson, and whether it’s because Sex Pistols were touching them, or because Spice Girl touched the bullets to elasticize them, they did actually injure the stand, King Crimson, itself.
Basicaly what happened at the beginning of creating JoJo: "Araki shouldn't we decide clear rules for stands from the beginning?" Araki: we'll figure it out as we go along
Yeah this is why a hamon+stand user would be the strongest in the whole world, let me use some examples, imagine you have star platinum but also learnt hamon, *IF* your stand gets beaten by some force stronger like the video said, then having hamon would be really useful to have, basically you wouldn't have to rely on your stand too much if it ever fails because then you could whip out hamon
@@khashayardemartini The knives weren't used on Sex Pistols, Cioccolata used them to cut himself up so he could hide. We see him use a chopping or stabbing motion with his and his stand's hands during his fight with Giorno which shows how he attacked Sex Pistols without having to explain it.
There is this thing of time stop where apparent dio isn’t sure how long it is but he should be able to assume it’s longer than 5 seconds imo unless it seems almost like he’s in hyper speed and it feels like 5 seconds but he’s just faster and doesn’t notice the speed? Edit: but time is still stopped, no I’m not saying they are so fast everything is frozen I know time it’s self is frozen, or DIO is a dumbass and can’t count
@@dr.stronk9857 wtf. No shit. Its actually time stop (Alternate DIO example. Tusk act 4 is an gravity-like stand due to its spin. And in time stop it was able to twitch. Just like how Pucci moved his head in the time stop via gravity. (Before MIH) Jotaro threw the Harpoon, and it stopped in mid-air. That's not speed anymore. Stop with such speculation just so yall can deny FTL stands. It's just getting childish at this point.
"Only stands can beat stands" How to beat a stand without stands Step 1: obtain a stand Step 2: do NOT use a stand. Step 3: obtain hamon/vampirism (or be born with ripple in general) Step 4: fight a stand.
how does this plan work against any stand with high strength and durability? Star platinum puts holes in Vampires, which has more durability than a human OR ham on user. This strategy only really works if you’re fighting that user and not the stand lol
@@TheSleeplessSleeperAgent Cioccolata used the scalpel to stab himself (i believe it was to remove his limbs) which is why it was bloody. Sex Pistols were chopped up by Green Day
@@teedoes I feel like a dunce now, after looking over that scene again, it became a little clearer of what actually happened, thanks for correcting me.
I’d always assumed it was just like how stands can “choose” whether to phase through objects. E.g star platinum holding a bullet when he wants to protect jotaro, or phasing through objects when needed. I’d assumed that when a stand “chooses” to be able to make contact with physical objects, during that time it’d be able to be defeated via ordinary means
i always heard “only a stand can beat other stands” as a prophecy, not a judgement of physical power-“many things can beat stands, but only a stand will happen to be used for it”. this explains how joseph can beat empress using a barrel of tar, and how josuke can beat red hot chili pepper with some seawater. hermit purple found the barrel of tar, and crazy diamond made the tire that pushed red hot chili pepper into the sea. the stands allowed those objects to be used, so they technically beat the other stands. maybe anyone could’ve used the objects, but they didn’t, fulfilling the prophecy
That makes much more sense then anything else given fate canonically exists in Jojo, especially when you consider that when Joseph was finally finishing empress he said that it is "meant to be
@@cryptozoid7152 Well, fortune and misfortune are effectively just good and bad luck right? What is luck if not fates hand pulling us its way. In jojo this is amped up to an insane degree for the stands that can manipulate misfortune
bro its literally the most of the plot of jojolion that they are overcoming a calamity/curse. theres no fate in the new universe. you cant just try to connect misfortune and fortune to fate in the most half assed most metaphorical way imaginable and take that as a sort of canon for what you base all of your views about the newer parts on.@@Emily12471
ONLY STAND USERS CAN SEE OTHER STANDS except when they don't ONLY STANDS CAN HARM OTHER STANDS except when they don't AND ALL DAMAGE DONE TO A STAND WILL REFLECT TO THE USER except when they don't -Viva Reverie Edit: apparently people are still calling me out on this so *AHEM* I KNOW ALL THESE RULES HAVE OBVIOUS EXCEPTIONS. I didn't make this joke I stole it from viva reverie(READ the whole comment before replying pleas)check HIM out he makes really funny stuff and to the guy that said I don't deserve 2.2k likes You're right but still we take those
*Stands can generally only be damaged by other Stands.* *Stand users, on the other hand ...* This is literally one of the first ideas that characters utilize when it comes to big-braining their opponents in a Stand battle.
mista is also a perfect example, his stand is useless against other stands since his stands needs bullets to work, but his stand is perfect for the user
That's literally the only reason the invincible Yellow Temperance was defeated; its user, Rubber Soul, was a dumbass who kept exposing his soft, squishy human body.
@@jruler93 Hence why said dumbass was allowed to have such a strong stand. Case in point, imagine what The Hand could do if given to something with more braincells than Okuyasu.
@@andrewkippenhan5494 which while some statements seem stupid like the "enerald splash never misses" which can easily be attempted to idiotic boasting from a guy who clearly had almost no experience fighting other stand users, but i mean Haman gets phased out real quick, yet Dio almost one shot himself going after Joseph, because the guy used his Haman with his stand to have the Haman hit Dio's stand and thus hit Dio, and that guy's stand is like the weakest stand in JoJo. And seeing the change made with Jolyne where now the stand users are using their stand abilities independently of their stands almost entirely, it seems like there's a power creep problem that could be solved just by changing up a little bit and allowing Haman to at very least allow a stand user, or anyone, defend against a stand rather than making it seem like only stand users have the ability to survive being in the general proximity of a stand. because seriously how many more times are we going to go "oh they don't have an ability, lets see how they endanger the group, gain a stand, or walk in the way and get murdered this time". For example we have our short boy with his pokemon stand, as a example of how stands evolve with the user, Haman training could easily be used to strengthen both stand and user and give the character an extra excuse for how they can defend themselves from the power of a stand. Helping diversify and avoid Gimmick of the week feelings, by adding combos that a single character can achieve.
"Only stands can beat other stands" Except when they don't "Beating the user will deactivate the stand" Except when they don't "Emerald splash never misses" Except when emerald splash misses
I love how every Jojotuber tends to post during the 17-18 of each month, coinciding with the release of the monthly Jojolion chapter. It makes these days truly comfortable.
This a simple concept you don't have to be able to touch a stand to beat it if the force you output more than the stand can handle with pass through and hit the stand. Dio + roller road hitting jotaro is an amazing example
I mean stands dont follow like a single rule of physics is really anyway so I don't get how you came to the conclusion that any normal ass person can walk up to a stand that's been brought out and just sucker punch it. I'm pretty sure saying stand act very much like ghost in how they affect the outside world the outside world does not effect it, effectively being a ghost. And the instances where stands interacted with the outside world were in no way "exceptions" if that were true then like every star platinum fight would be an exception, and every time crazy diamond shot a ball bearing too, these are just off the top of my head. But I agre very simple it could have been a "just comatose the stand user breh" I thought it was 6 minutes cause he was gonna explain how a normal ass dude was gonna go about taking out jotaro
@@4balls187 but stands are still react to physics, if a stand with a E in strength tries to stop a train or something of that sizes it will hurt the stand via hurting the user hermit purple, star platinum, and white album are good examples of this
there is any instance that a stand just passes through an object? because if not they literally can't just pass through, they would just break and kill the user
“So only stand user can see other stands,” Except for when they don’t. “Only stands can harm other stands,” Except for when they don’t. “And all damage to the stand is reflected onto the user!” EXEPT FOR WHEN THEY DONT.
@@jibjibs9401 Three freeze affects sheer heart because isnt an attack like SP punches, but rather an status effect (youre making something have more weight) and that affects kira's hand, ¿but the punches of SP not affect kira's hand? Why? Simple, sheer heart attack doesnt take damage by normal attacks like blows
I mean it does add the caveat that there are exceptions to those rules just like there are exceptions to rules like stands dying if their user dies. The rules are just what apply to most stands.
Considering his cybernetic enhancements surpassing the abilities of Santana, I'm actually pretty sure Stroheim would be able to easily out match weak and mediocre stands.
2:34 True, but if DIO wasn’t crying about Jotaro being able to flinch in his precious stopped time the entire fight he could’ve just donutted Jotaro and moved on
Dio was scared to come in his range didn't you see? After that he realized that it was a magnet he came to jotaro and jotaro just hit him. Dio was only being careful.
Part 7 does a good job of explaining part of this: It doesn't matter how strong or OP your stand is, you can still get shot with a regular gun and be mortally wounded. (Not going into specifics because spoilers)
WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY ?????????????????
@@johnnycripplestar5167 hot take: Johnny shot johnny and didn’t know, so the johnny who johnny just shot decided to shoot the johnny that just shot johnny. Then another johnny gets shot by diego, who gets shot by valentine who gets shot by johnny, who shoots the johnny that shot jonny which fired back at johnny.
@@johnnycripplestar5167 in short all of them shot johnny, just in 3 alternate universe which were all spliced together, each with one of the witnesses, hence why everyone saw different things.
Even putting aside the examples of stands being harmed by real things, the “only stands can harm other stands” rule never really made sense to me because like, stands interact with real objects all the time. If Star Platinum can grab a bullet, then why can’t a bullet hurt Star Platinum? My idea of this is basically that stand users choose when their stands are and aren’t corporeal, which is also why stands can sometimes phase through stuff. So if you see a bullet coming at your stand you can just like, turn it off. I know that doesn’t make a lot of sense but it’s what I think.
Actually I think that's spot on, star platinum can grab a bullet to defend Jotaro, but at the same time it can pass through a wall, I assumed the user can switch it from intangible to tangible to defend himself as the need arises
The real issue is that Stands are really fucking tough. You could shoot Star Platinum if it stood still, but that probably wouldn't actually do much of anything at all. Which is why Mista's never able to just snipe a guy's Stand, his bullets wouldn't do much. So instead, he has to target the actual user if he wants to do any real damage.
I think it's more one of those "magical rule" kind of things. Physical force can be applied to Star Platinum, without him going intangible, but unless that energy came from a Stand, it doesn't actually hurt him. You could drop a train on Star Platinum, but unless that train was a Stand, he just sort of... takes it. It bounces off. It's like armor stats in a video game. Stands have "durability," so the Stand whose offense is stronger than its opponent's defense can damage it, but against anything that isn't another Stand power, their durability becomes infinite. Like having 100% armor value against a particular damage class. If you have 100% fire resist, you can stick your hand into a blowtorch and not get hurt, but if you have no piercing damage resistance, poking the same hand with a pointy rock still hurts as normal. That's the way I've always understood Stand durability to work. Obviously the human Stand User themself is still just a squishy human, hence why almost all Stand battles boil down to finding a way to get past the Stand and strike the User directly. How many opponents have JoJo protags beaten by not actually beating their Stand, but rather bypassing it and hitting the User? Some Stands don't follow this rule, and can be damaged normally, but they're an uncommon exception, not a rule.
Whats even worse is when people say “well they can’t see the stand they automatically lose” If this was true anyone with invisibility or telekinesis would be invincible
I think if telekenesis were limitless in fiction, it would be basically unstopable. For example in Naruto, Pain claps everyone including Kakashi. However he had a 3 sec cooldown, that's how he lost (and also telekenisis may be vulnerable to non-physicals like laser beams.). Even Magneto seems broken, but he in fact has many weaknesses. Invisibility is weak in the fact that it only stops others from "seeing" them but if the person fighting them has another way to detect them, its useless. In fiction there is always a catch to people's abilities or a weakness or limit. Its not that its impossible to defeat a stand user, but that its very difficult if you're a non-stand user. Take SP for example, yes DIO could lift an entire road roller and almost overpower SP. But can "we" (normal people) lift an entire road roller to crush Jotaro? No.
@@realdude1035 if telekinesis was limitless couldn’t you move around the enemies brain and mash it against their own skulls or move their neurons? You could also do the same with someone’s organs
I think that the basic idea "Only a Stand can defeat another Stand" has to do with defense rather than offense. If a normal person is attacked by a Stand user, they have no defense. They can't see the attack coming, and can't do anything to defend themselves. And, of course, we see numerous examples of ordinary people killed by Stands without the slightest possibility of preventing it.
Exactly. A person can only know what does and doesn’t work against stands if they can observe it, especially given the vast uniqueness of most stands. One can still infer what might be the same way we theorize about black holes in space, but that is a far cry from another stand user who can instantly see and observe the stands’ abilities. You pull a gun on a stand user. Fine, but you still have no idea what they are capable of. Are their powers physical or mental? Will the bullet be stopped or turn into a harmless piece of popcorn? Did they sense your intent somehow and won’t even allow you to pull the trigger? Can you trust your surroundings not to attack you? Can you trust your weapon not to attack you? Will they influence your thoughts, perceptions or even age? Did you just meet the requirements for an ability and are now trapped? How can you even tell if the stand is front of you and about to go in for the kill? There is simply no way for a non-stand user to tell any of this within the timeframe of a stand battle and survive without another stand user to lend them abilities (like Hayato) or inform them what is happening.
considering that killing the stand-user is the primary strategy used to attack and defeat a stand, I think what they meant by this was only a stand-*user* can defeat another stand-*user*, and they mean it more as a generalization than a 100% hard fact like, DIO was able to - seemingly - defeat Jotaro's stand because he'd been able to watch it, assess its capabilities, and then try to plan a counter-attack. DIO even tried to actively avoid having this strategy reversed on him by keeping his stand's power a secret a normal person *could* potentially kill a stand-user if they don't really have a plan to protect themselves, or if the no-stand-person gets lucky, but it'd be at least as difficult as fighting a vampire without hamon, if not even more difficult
Ultimately, "Only Stands can defeat other Stands" is just way better as a catchphrase than: "Only things that kill the user or are able to project an insane amount of force, like a nuke or a speeding train or something, are able to defeat a Stand as long as it doesn't have some weirdo power that somehow reverses or undoes the effect of said thing being used against it."
Just some dude with a sniper rifle a mile out, same as most fictional wizards. The bullet will reach you before the sound of it does, so you literally can't react in time to put your Stand in the way.
@@HeraldOfOpera Unless your Stand happens to be able to react faster than the speed of sound, like say, unarmored Silver Chariot, Star Platinum or The World, or you have a BS OP Stand like Gold Experience Requiem, Wonder of U or that luck ability thing from the corpse part. Mista might also be able to ricochet a bullet if Sex Pistols are out and notice the bullet, given that they can throw bullets around.
I think Jotaro could just shroud himself with Star? Sheer Heart Attack could incapacitate him because it's another Stand, basically a magic bomb, while Star is impervious to normal objects.
@@heresthadude1080 You don't just shield yourself from a nuke. If the explosion itself somehow doesn't kill you, then the heat, the extreme change in air pressure or the radiation surely will.
And that’s why Long range stands are so scary cause unlike short ranged stands the user can just dip and now you HAVE to defat the stand then find the user cause if you try to find the user the stand will kill you also shear heart attack with out Kira is op
@Deku Might when I mean usually I don't mean the exceptions like sabbath, but usually they'd still be damaged if not killed like heart attack from Kira or the puppet from part 3.
"Only stands can beat other stands" refers that physical objects or beings can't directly damage or defeat a stand. There are two ways of defeating a stand user; either you defeat the user until they can't use their stand, or you defeat the stand which defeats the user in the process. The first way, for example, is the road roller, which is effective only because it attacks Jotaro, if it only attacked Star Platinum, it would be useless since Star Platinum can just let the road roller pass through him. You don't beat the stand, you beat the user, and defeat the stand in the process. The second way is, for example, the fight against Empress. The user, Nena, is not damaged at all throughout the fight and she's defeated when the stand is destroyed, not when she's directly attacked.
I dint want to be that guy but you just basically said "You don't beat the stand, you beat the user thus beating the stand." either way you beat the stand.
@@Requiem353 No, I'm explaining that the rule of "only stands can beat other stands" is usually misunderstood because a lot of people fail to separate the stand and the user. The only way for a stand to take damage is by another stand, yet this damage is not applied to the user, a user will only be affected if the stand is "killed". This is not the same the other way around, a user can be harmed by anything, be it a stand attack or not, and this damage will also be applied to the stand since the stand is dependent on its user. You can beat the user with anything, thus beating the stand in the process OR you can beat the stand with another stand, thus beating the user in the process.
@@_MrMoney oh I understood what you meant I just wanted to start fuvking around, but the point in the vid still stands. If the stand is to weak to stop an ordinary physical attack from a non stand user who overpowers it the attack will still be able to hit its target the user.
@@Requiem353 Yes, that's exactly what I said. I'm not going against the video, just giving another perspective. Physical attacks harm the user directly, then the stand for being dependent on the user.
"Stands are just a virus that puts you on the same WiFi plan, that's why you all see eachother" Never before have been so offended by something that is 100% true.
Only stands can beat other stands Ultimate Kars:Allow me to reintroduce myself Edit: Oi Kaleb! I turned the reply section into a debate of what stands can beat ultimate Kars. Join in if you have an opinion!
@@literalgarbage8014 Yes it is a stand but can be visible by non-stand users like Hayato. Also Hayato could pick him up i go with him (that moment when he tried to kill Kira) so he could probably kill Stray Cat
no surface can't be damaged by physical things, only the object it's possessing can be. now stray cat's different, it's an actual reincarnated living organism altered by stand energy and instead of having a normal soul from the jump like most beings in jojo before they get some spiritual ability like hamon/stand power, it's souls already standofied because of it's past life, it's body is literally an altered stand plaint so it can be damaged by physical objects.
I was always under the understanding that Stands were also a manifestation of the soul, hence why they're so connected to the user. It would also explain why something like the Ghost Alley would be ripping a stand from the user. It's literally snatching their _soul,_ which in this case happened to be manifested (as a stand of course). (õ∀ŏ;)ゞ
Stands die when the user dies Polarneff: dont think so When a stand gets hurt the user gets hurt in the same place Polarneff: dont think so When a stand gets deafeated the user dies too Polarneff: dont think so
Literally Servants from Fate series. Masters Died Servant lives. Servants Died Master lives. Servants get hurt Masters aren't affected. Unless The Servant uses the Master as Mana Pool which would drain, hurt, kills the Master for Power. via enhancements & corruption.
Silver chariot fell apart and died after polnareff was donutted. Chariot Requiem is a shadow of the former stand. Silver chariot is long gone. polnareff lost his legs in the fall and that caused chariot's legs to become pikes. its just that it floats around so it basically doesnt matter. but during the Cream fight, (and the diavolo flashback,) it did have legs. going back, when chariot was destroyed, polnareff was already bound to the turtle and he no longer has a stand. if you really wanted to use an example you should have used B.I.G. and Carne
@@Kobekola except for one problem....Notorious B.I.G.s ability, is literally to activate after its users death. It's a written exception, not something Araki forgot about.
I just realized how a normal person's perspective is when they see two stand users fight, you just see one man standing still and the other one floating in the air seemingly having an epileptic seizure
I’ve always wondered what would it be like if Jojo pulled a stunt like from Persona 4 anime where Kanji was able to single handily take down his own monster form Shadow self with a punch which was drastically different to every other shadow needing to be taken down by Persona’s both in the anime and in the game.
I'm not sure that's exactly how it worked. They had already beaten his shadow, him punching it was more less just to symbolize him accepting himself. Wasn't really him singlehandedly beating his shadow in a fight.
I don’t really think that’s true (even if it says it in the series). Like when star platinum stopped the truck with his fist in the wheel of fortune episode if hermit purple tried to do that I’m sure Joseph would turn into a cloud of red mist very quickly. Also in the same episode when they get pushed off the cliff in the car and heirelophent is using the tow cable to save them if I remember correctly they say something like the stand will be ripped in half if he tried to stop the car with pure strength
if you're talking about ciocolatta against sex pistols, the scapel is just used to cut ciocolatta in half. when he's going to attack giorno after that, he uses his stand
@@felipeangelo4306 He gets tripped by Bruno physically, without Bruno needing to use Sticky Fingers. He's a physically formed Stand that normal humans can interact with.
remember how dio deflected the emerald splash? he wasn't using his stand during that, yet he wasn't taking much damage. if he had continued it, he could've gotten up to kakyoin and outclassed his stand there
Because the emerald splash is an projectile that come out of Hierophant Green. It's *no longer considered as stand,* but rather and item. And every human (or vampire) could deflect Kakyoin's projectile granted that if they're capable of doing so (DIO buff body could deflect it, you could perhaps use a tank armor and it'll deflect it and more
I am convinced infinite death loop took king crimson away from diavolo because every situation we saw he would have gotten out of it he use king crimson
I think it's both selective tangibility, and the difference in power between the stand and the incoming nonstand. If the stand doesn't interact with the object then they can pass through each other. If the stand choses to interact and is more powerful, such as blocking a bullet, then the stand is fine and the object is stopped. But if a stand is weaker than what it's blocking, then the interaction is mutual between both parties, like if a physically weak stand is used to block a bullet, then the bullet hits the stand like it's a person.
It depends on user's wish, like when Jotaro uses star platinum to steal the necklace for steely Dan, it's hand was able to pass through glass but hold the necklace. So it depends what objects user wants the stand to phase through and what not.
Easiest rebuttal: Mista literally hasn't hurt anyone with his stands. He fires bullets that his stand kicks about. Any stand user he defeated, got defeated by a fucking 9 mil
Hey Kaleb, my roommates and I did a thing recently where we renamed all of the Part 3 Stands as musical references instead of tarot cards/gods and I think that'd be a really interesting thing to see you tackle!
I think Narancia and Abbacchio illustrated why you don't do that if you like your bones unbroken, even wearing slightly stylish clothes is a danger in JoJo word
Well i dont know enough about HXH but it is safe to say that MHA has a chance of being soloed, especially if you include silver chariot requiem. But then again… polnareff never was the most situationally aware so it is very likely he gets jumped or ambushed
@@KirBYEonyt nah if all you have to do take chariot requiem down is to destroy the sun behind your head then people with wide area attacks have nothing to fear also the My hero verse scales higher feat wise than HXH
@@LRUniversely also just throwing it out here that silver chariot requiem was only delivering the arrow somewhere else (probs jotaro) but since polnarreff isn’t dead here he can command it properly and even if they could hit the “sun” they need to figure that out first, all the while being attacked
@@KirBYEonyt I don't think he could control chariot requiem as he already once took the arrow away from Silver chariot before. You could also make a point that the sun behind your head is the user as it is one stand per user.
The fact that other people can't see stands gives them a massive disadvantage, but yeah if you find a way to kill them (like Road Roller then yes, you can beat a stand!)
My only thing with regards to this is the need to consider the fact that stands are completely invisible to non stand users. Yes the human owner of these stands can be damaged and defeated, but only in the event that the opponent is orders of magnitude faster/stronger, such that they can out speed/damage the invincible invisible body shield that is a stand. Even if the opponent is slightly stronger and faster, the fact that they have no idea where star platinum is/ is attacking from would need to be taken into account. Granted if the opponent is several orders of magnitude faster/stronger than the stand than yeah 100% the stand user is going to lose, but just being able to "match" or being slightly faster wouldn't be nearly enough to make up for the lack of visibility when fighting.
Another analogy I’d use is; a stand is the light from a lightbulb, you can’t punch light but you can take a hammer and smash the bulb… just make sure the light doesn’t burn you
The best example of a scene arguing against "Only stands can beat stands" is in the Wheel of Fortune episode where Joseph says something along the lines of "Your Hierophant Green can't hold that much weight, you'll die." when referring to the Jeep that the Crusaders are falling in. Kakyoin even goes so far to acknowledge that he would normally die if he did that, but because he brought the Jeep's winch with him, it's totally fine because Hierophant Green isn't carrying the weight, the winch is. In this case, the force behind a falling Jeep and several passengers would most certainly be enough to defeat at least one stand, with two stand users acknowledging it. Therefore, the statement, "Only stand users can beat stands" is not always applicable.
Usually, and I mean usually, a stand can just faze through an object like a ghost without any worry. Unless that said object is about to inflict harm on the user such as a bullet, thus the stand would make itself interact with that bullet to protect its user. So if an object it's strong and perhaps heavy enough, it can overpower the stand and crush the user. Like maybe firing a missile or a building collapsing on them. It is possible to defeat a stand user without a stand, such as Gyro Zeppeli defeating stand users without a stand. Although that is mostly because those stands didn't really do fighting in battles but provide their users with powers instead. So it really depends on the stand and what you have at your disposal to take them out without a stand.
Heres a good example!: Remember the sun stand in part 3 and how jotaro’s stand had chucked a rock at the user? Well lets say jotaro used a anti tank rifle and precisely aimed it at the enemy stand user and fired. The bullet hit and (wont say killed) but severely injured him. The crusaders shipped the man to a hospital which in terms they one
only stands can beat other stands, but fortunately most stands come attached to a squishy human that can be beaten with a gun
Wdym guns never work on jojo characters
@@sndsunderstagel3114 i think he meant that most stand user is someone who can legit got killed with only a gun, edit : 200 likes? Man thats like the most amount of likes i've ever received tysm
Could a stand stop bullets? Like if your stand is big enough to cover and stand in front of you can’t it act as a shield against bullets?
@@JeffersonSteelflexx yeah, depends on how fast and durable it is, u dont want ur stand to be an E durability and use ur stand to shield urself Imao
This is true, but people in the world of JJBA don't seem to realize that in their world, a gun would be more effectively utilized by directly beating someone with it rather than trying to shoot them (like THAT ever works).
"stands are the visualization of the user's psyche"
damn bro avdols psyche be looking finger lickin good
He wanted kfc
frai chichken
He was hungry
I thought he was more of a McDonald's guy...
I hope whoever made his stand design knew what they were doing lmao
"most stands are a visualization of the user's psyche"
Jotaro: pumch
Pumchy ghost with gloves and scarf
Hole horse: g u
@@KirBYEonyt it's a bandana
@@TheFragrantGangsters It’s a scarf, bandanas go on your head and if it doesn’t go on your head it kind of functions like a mask.
ruclips.net/video/AtQ3nO8GW0g/видео.html
It'll be cool to have a character who's only ability is to see other stands. Without a stand to fight back that character would have to use assassination to kill the user without altering the stand.
Could get a gun and be shitty holhorse
@@harleyjamesjenkinson7653 it's be cool seeing someone kill Stan users with traps and clever schemes. Imagine Kira but instead of Stan abilities it is actual bombs and hitmen
There is a character like that but it would be spoilers.
@@harleyjamesjenkinson7653 so Mista then?
@@gesgald2266 Nah Sex Pistols is actually useful
Summed up: stands themselves normally can’t be beaten or hurt through physical means, however any physical object,being or attack outputting more force then the stand can stop will ultimately bypass the stand being able to go through it, even if the stand itself does not take damage or get effected by the force.
Nice
The abridged version of the summed up:
*O V E R P O W E R / O U T S P E E D*
Additionally, it plays into the user choosing whether to make their stand corporeal or not, making it so instead of said "attack" being able to hit stand, its rather the stand making itself hittable as its likely more durable then meatbag human
I mean this is what happens with kira and hyato. He out wits kira who we say wit is 3 but hyato had a wit of 2 but through retries he goes to 4
Also, Joseph warned Kakyoin that his stand would be ripped apart if he tried to hold an entire car with it. (This was when the car that they were in was pushed off a cliff by Wheel of Fortune.) This implies that if a user tries to block a physical attack with their stand and their stand isn’t strong enough, the stand could be directly damaged.
2:58 "Only stands can be defeated by other stands!" i'm pretty sure regular people can also be defeated by stands
lmao
LMAO THAT WAS CLEVER
And literally everything except a more powerful stand
Funny
Did laugh
This is like "Lungs are vital for Hamon Users".
The thing some Jojo fans forget about is that in a fight with a stand user, it doesn’t matter if you can ‘beat the stand’, but if you can get to the (very mortal) user
I mean, causing damage to the stand directly reflects it to the user, so if the stand would be easier to kill than the user themselves, you can kill the stand and it will kill the person
@@brodiesaltsman2842 yes, but that’s not the point. In a vs match, it depends on if a character can actually affect the stand themself and if not, can they overwhelm and/or work around it to damage the user which will invariably be damagable
Yeah kill the user and that’s it
C4: let me introduce myself
I think this video is pointless since it's pretty much already established that if you kill the user, most of the times the stand dies. There are exceptions where the stand is independent to the user, but they are minimal. Also there are a lot of cases of them facing a long range stand, and they always try to find the user to defeat them
If I remember right, stands operate under selective intangibility, an "I can touch you but you can't touch me" with physical matter. The exception I believe is when a stand uses a physical object as a weapon against another stand, but this happens categorically
The selective intangibility just doesn't make sense though.
@@wildbard4112 Personally, I feel like the most logical way to interpret it is that stands can be affected by physical objects and stuff, it's just that they can't take permanent damage unless it's from a stand. Kinda like how you can beat the shit out of a werewolf or vampire, but you aren't going to do more than physically toss them around unless you're using silver/holy weapons. Or in this series case, like hamon against vampires.
@@norrecvizharan1177 The show explains it like this, Stands have a physical presence but only Stands can hurt other Stands.
@@wildbard4112 neither does punch ghosts. What's your point?
The “physical weapon wielded by a stand” thing is funky, but it checks out. At the end of Part 5 Mista fires bullets at King Crimson, and whether it’s because Sex Pistols were touching them, or because Spice Girl touched the bullets to elasticize them, they did actually injure the stand, King Crimson, itself.
Basicaly what happened at the beginning of creating JoJo:
"Araki shouldn't we decide clear rules for stands from the beginning?"
Araki: we'll figure it out as we go along
It's a common thing among writers. It's better to start and adapt as they go along, rather than planning everything out but didn't go as planned
And ammon was first
Yeah this is why a hamon+stand user would be the strongest in the whole world, let me use some examples, imagine you have star platinum but also learnt hamon, *IF* your stand gets beaten by some force stronger like the video said, then having hamon would be really useful to have, basically you wouldn't have to rely on your stand too much if it ever fails because then you could whip out hamon
@@venezuelaanimations3732 but hamon users usually have shitty stand like hermit purple though
@@leminhquan8455 Nah Joseph dont count XD, plus its unknown what would really happen
"Only stands can beat other stands"
*DIO using his index finger to deflect the emerald splash*
Not to mention Mista’s stand getting cut by a knife when he was fighting greenday
@@khashayardemartini the guns physical the people are not
@@khashayardemartini The knives weren't used on Sex Pistols, Cioccolata used them to cut himself up so he could hide. We see him use a chopping or stabbing motion with his and his stand's hands during his fight with Giorno which shows how he attacked Sex Pistols without having to explain it.
the emeralds are physical, it's simple
@@astralman so he used both the knife and the stand
Every "rule" in JoJo about stands is just an assumption. The person who came closest to understanding stands was probably Dio and Pucci.
There is this thing of time stop where apparent dio isn’t sure how long it is but he should be able to assume it’s longer than 5 seconds imo unless it seems almost like he’s in hyper speed and it feels like 5 seconds but he’s just faster and doesn’t notice the speed?
Edit: but time is still stopped, no I’m not saying they are so fast everything is frozen I know time it’s self is frozen, or DIO is a dumbass and can’t count
Also nice profile picture lol
@@dr.stronk9857 nice stroke
@@dr.stronk9857 wtf. No shit. Its actually time stop (Alternate DIO example. Tusk act 4 is an gravity-like stand due to its spin. And in time stop it was able to twitch. Just like how Pucci moved his head in the time stop via gravity. (Before MIH) Jotaro threw the Harpoon, and it stopped in mid-air. That's not speed anymore. Stop with such speculation just so yall can deny FTL stands. It's just getting childish at this point.
@@justabulletjustaboxofammo3817 I stopped at tusk act 4 (haven’t read sbr)
"Only stands can beat stands"
How to beat a stand without stands
Step 1: obtain a stand
Step 2: do NOT use a stand.
Step 3: obtain hamon/vampirism (or be born with ripple in general)
Step 4: fight a stand.
SPACE RIPPER STINGY EYES SHIINE
Its not like that, only stands can touch stands
Spin go brrrr
how does this plan work against any stand with high strength and durability?
Star platinum puts holes in Vampires, which has more durability than a human OR ham on user.
This strategy only really works if you’re fighting that user and not the stand lol
@@HabitualThinker vampires cant die unless by sunlight or the wood cross thing
Gyro in part 7 constantly kills stand users throughout the part despite not having a stand. What a lad.
I mean spin is a similar ability almost like a stand but he developed a stand
His balls have a stand themselves
@@crystalpyr0997 what kind of balls like the one he " throws " or the other one
@@Pexag0n both (;
Ball breaker: am I a joke to you?
"Only Stands can beat other Stands."
I seem to remember Red Hot Chili Peppers being defeated by a tire and seawater.
he had electricity properties
There's also the blatant thing with cioccolata with his scalpel cutting sex pistols
Well it literally defeated itself, like punching yourself in the face
@@TheSleeplessSleeperAgent Cioccolata used the scalpel to stab himself (i believe it was to remove his limbs) which is why it was bloody. Sex Pistols were chopped up by Green Day
@@teedoes I feel like a dunce now, after looking over that scene again, it became a little clearer of what actually happened, thanks for correcting me.
I’d always assumed it was just like how stands can “choose” whether to phase through objects. E.g star platinum holding a bullet when he wants to protect jotaro, or phasing through objects when needed. I’d assumed that when a stand “chooses” to be able to make contact with physical objects, during that time it’d be able to be defeated via ordinary means
basically anubis but every stand has their abilities
Even avdol does it in the beginning, how embarrassing would it be if magician’s red couldn’t get inside
And then there is Diver Down
@@MT-oo5zc Diver Down is diferent than just: "passing through objects" but I have no time to explain further
actually no it can still phase through attacks
i always heard “only a stand can beat other stands” as a prophecy, not a judgement of physical power-“many things can beat stands, but only a stand will happen to be used for it”. this explains how joseph can beat empress using a barrel of tar, and how josuke can beat red hot chili pepper with some seawater. hermit purple found the barrel of tar, and crazy diamond made the tire that pushed red hot chili pepper into the sea. the stands allowed those objects to be used, so they technically beat the other stands. maybe anyone could’ve used the objects, but they didn’t, fulfilling the prophecy
This is brilliant
That makes much more sense then anything else given fate canonically exists in Jojo, especially when you consider that when Joseph was finally finishing empress he said that it is "meant to be
@@Emily12471 how would that explain part 7 and onwards where fate doesnt exist and its just the concepts of fortune and misfortune
@@cryptozoid7152 Well, fortune and misfortune are effectively just good and bad luck right? What is luck if not fates hand pulling us its way.
In jojo this is amped up to an insane degree for the stands that can manipulate misfortune
bro its literally the most of the plot of jojolion that they are overcoming a calamity/curse. theres no fate in the new universe. you cant just try to connect misfortune and fortune to fate in the most half assed most metaphorical way imaginable and take that as a sort of canon for what you base all of your views about the newer parts on.@@Emily12471
ONLY STAND USERS CAN SEE OTHER STANDS
except when they don't
ONLY STANDS CAN HARM OTHER STANDS
except when they don't
AND ALL DAMAGE DONE TO A STAND WILL REFLECT
TO THE USER
except when they don't
-Viva Reverie
Edit: apparently people are still calling me out on this so *AHEM* I KNOW ALL THESE RULES HAVE OBVIOUS EXCEPTIONS. I didn't make this joke I stole it from viva reverie(READ the whole comment before replying pleas)check HIM out he makes really funny stuff
and to the guy that said I don't deserve 2.2k likes
You're right
but still we take those
All stand users have stands
Except...
@@mralabbad7 ...for when they don’t.
the world is expanding
i see no problem with that
DoubleTrouble202 except when it doesn’t
Notice how most stand that break these rules are bound types?
*Stands can generally only be damaged by other Stands.*
*Stand users, on the other hand ...*
This is literally one of the first ideas that characters utilize when it comes to big-braining their opponents in a Stand battle.
mista is also a perfect example, his stand is useless against other stands since his stands needs bullets to work, but his stand is perfect for the user
@@colossalnate156 Guns are effective against people, yes.
That's literally the only reason the invincible Yellow Temperance was defeated; its user, Rubber Soul, was a dumbass who kept exposing his soft, squishy human body.
@@jruler93 Hence why said dumbass was allowed to have such a strong stand. Case in point, imagine what The Hand could do if given to something with more braincells than Okuyasu.
@@andrewkippenhan5494 which while some statements seem stupid like the "enerald splash never misses" which can easily be attempted to idiotic boasting from a guy who clearly had almost no experience fighting other stand users, but i mean Haman gets phased out real quick, yet Dio almost one shot himself going after Joseph, because the guy used his Haman with his stand to have the Haman hit Dio's stand and thus hit Dio, and that guy's stand is like the weakest stand in JoJo.
And seeing the change made with Jolyne where now the stand users are using their stand abilities independently of their stands almost entirely, it seems like there's a power creep problem that could be solved just by changing up a little bit and allowing Haman to at very least allow a stand user, or anyone, defend against a stand rather than making it seem like only stand users have the ability to survive being in the general proximity of a stand. because seriously how many more times are we going to go "oh they don't have an ability, lets see how they endanger the group, gain a stand, or walk in the way and get murdered this time".
For example we have our short boy with his pokemon stand, as a example of how stands evolve with the user, Haman training could easily be used to strengthen both stand and user and give the character an extra excuse for how they can defend themselves from the power of a stand. Helping diversify and avoid Gimmick of the week feelings, by adding combos that a single character can achieve.
lets be honest, most of the minor Jojo villains could be beaten with nothing more than a scoped gun
John Galli A. had the right idea, in the wrong situation.
The thing about most stands is that they are HIGHLY situational. Most stands aren’t about brute strength, and can only be used in specific situations.
Hol Horse and Mista have entered the chat
Like ye the stand is like miles away just choke them or absolutely stab them to death with something sharp
Twewy fan, nice
"Only stands can beat other stands"
Except when they don't
"Beating the user will deactivate the stand"
Except when they don't
"Emerald splash never misses"
Except when emerald splash misses
It didn’t miss it was deflected
@@jacobschweiger5897 Not hitting target = miss
@@__area.52__ being deflected by the target = hitting the target (usually arms/hands)
@@TheStoso2 i dont think kakyoins target would be dios hands
No emerald splash does miss
I love how every Jojotuber tends to post during the 17-18 of each month, coinciding with the release of the monthly Jojolion chapter. It makes these days truly comfortable.
Aren't you that 3'10 guy who got his teeth *y e e t e d* by DIO?
that is probably to get a ride on the algorithm, many youtubers save the videos to upload later when it is more convenient
I love how the level 4 damage bypassing your shield is a direct parallel to Tusk Act 4 bypassing Love Train
Holy shit it is :v
This a simple concept you don't have to be able to touch a stand to beat it if the force you output more than the stand can handle with pass through and hit the stand. Dio + roller road hitting jotaro is an amazing example
I mean stands dont follow like a single rule of physics is really anyway so I don't get how you came to the conclusion that any normal ass person can walk up to a stand that's been brought out and just sucker punch it. I'm pretty sure saying stand act very much like ghost in how they affect the outside world the outside world does not effect it, effectively being a ghost. And the instances where stands interacted with the outside world were in no way "exceptions" if that were true then like every star platinum fight would be an exception, and every time crazy diamond shot a ball bearing too, these are just off the top of my head. But I agre very simple it could have been a "just comatose the stand user breh" I thought it was 6 minutes cause he was gonna explain how a normal ass dude was gonna go about taking out jotaro
@@4balls187 but stands are still react to physics, if a stand with a E in strength tries to stop a train or something of that sizes it will hurt the stand via hurting the user hermit purple, star platinum, and white album are good examples of this
there is any instance that a stand just passes through an object? because if not they literally can't just pass through, they would just break and kill the user
@@girosvaldodeskate2214 pretty sure the user has to consciously make their stands go through objects we haven’t seen a stand naturally do that
@@girosvaldodeskate2214 pass through a person body to I think restart someone heart. Jotaro did it
“So only stand user can see other stands,”
Except for when they don’t.
“Only stands can harm other stands,”
Except for when they don’t.
“And all damage to the stand is reflected onto the user!”
EXEPT FOR WHEN THEY DONT.
All the damage that surpasses the stand resistance, sheer heart attack for example cannot take damage, so the hand of kira doesnt take damage
@@ginsoxx92 Sheer Heart Attack does take damage and three freeze affects it. Almost every remote control stand doesn’t affect the user.
@@jibjibs9401 Three freeze affects sheer heart because isnt an attack like SP punches, but rather an status effect (youre making something have more weight) and that affects kira's hand, ¿but the punches of SP not affect kira's hand? Why? Simple, sheer heart attack doesnt take damage by normal attacks like blows
"NOTHING CAN DEFLECT THE EMERALD SPLASH!"
except when they do
I mean it does add the caveat that there are exceptions to those rules just like there are exceptions to rules like stands dying if their user dies. The rules are just what apply to most stands.
Considering his cybernetic enhancements surpassing the abilities of Santana, I'm actually pretty sure Stroheim would be able to easily out match weak and mediocre stands.
That MG would shred many kinds of Stand User, because many are niche or are not fast enough.
Still waiting for Soviet Stand User Gaiden over here to see what kind of stand he lost to
@@KaaneDragonShinobi
“Red Army!” *Multiple red smaller stands swarm Stroheim*
@@KaaneDragonShinobi back in the ussr, rasputin, molchat dolma?
“GERMAN SCIENCE IS THE WORLD’S FINEST”
2:34 True, but if DIO wasn’t crying about Jotaro being able to flinch in his precious stopped time the entire fight he could’ve just donutted Jotaro and moved on
yeah but it was probably a mega shock, dude thought he was God personified and had a perfect unbeatable stand ability
@@ok0_0A little bit of villain's taking 8 Million years things to do their evil shit and a little bit of plot armor.
He didn’t want to risk getting trapped once in Star Platinum’s range
DIO was toying with Jotaro the whole time besides he had to destroy his stand at some point to achieve heaven
Dio was scared to come in his range didn't you see? After that he realized that it was a magnet he came to jotaro and jotaro just hit him. Dio was only being careful.
Part 7 does a good job of explaining part of this: It doesn't matter how strong or OP your stand is, you can still get shot with a regular gun and be mortally wounded. (Not going into specifics because spoilers)
"you might have a god killing stand, *but i have gun.*"
WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY WHO SHOT JOHNNY ?????????????????
@@johnnycripplestar5167 hot take:
Johnny shot johnny and didn’t know, so the johnny who johnny just shot decided to shoot the johnny that just shot johnny.
Then another johnny gets shot by diego, who gets shot by valentine who gets shot by johnny, who shoots the johnny that shot jonny which fired back at johnny.
@@johnnycripplestar5167 in short all of them shot johnny, just in 3 alternate universe which were all spliced together, each with one of the witnesses, hence why everyone saw different things.
@@KirBYEonyt my brain hurts
Even putting aside the examples of stands being harmed by real things, the “only stands can harm other stands” rule never really made sense to me because like, stands interact with real objects all the time. If Star Platinum can grab a bullet, then why can’t a bullet hurt Star Platinum? My idea of this is basically that stand users choose when their stands are and aren’t corporeal, which is also why stands can sometimes phase through stuff. So if you see a bullet coming at your stand you can just like, turn it off. I know that doesn’t make a lot of sense but it’s what I think.
Actually I think that's spot on, star platinum can grab a bullet to defend Jotaro, but at the same time it can pass through a wall, I assumed the user can switch it from intangible to tangible to defend himself as the need arises
@@josepablobonillajimenez6297 Like going through the ground grabbing his heart to stop it and then pump it to start it again to fool Dio
The real issue is that Stands are really fucking tough. You could shoot Star Platinum if it stood still, but that probably wouldn't actually do much of anything at all. Which is why Mista's never able to just snipe a guy's Stand, his bullets wouldn't do much. So instead, he has to target the actual user if he wants to do any real damage.
I think when a stand is attacking or defending it automatically becomes tangible
I think it's more one of those "magical rule" kind of things. Physical force can be applied to Star Platinum, without him going intangible, but unless that energy came from a Stand, it doesn't actually hurt him. You could drop a train on Star Platinum, but unless that train was a Stand, he just sort of... takes it. It bounces off.
It's like armor stats in a video game.
Stands have "durability," so the Stand whose offense is stronger than its opponent's defense can damage it, but against anything that isn't another Stand power, their durability becomes infinite. Like having 100% armor value against a particular damage class.
If you have 100% fire resist, you can stick your hand into a blowtorch and not get hurt, but if you have no piercing damage resistance, poking the same hand with a pointy rock still hurts as normal.
That's the way I've always understood Stand durability to work.
Obviously the human Stand User themself is still just a squishy human, hence why almost all Stand battles boil down to finding a way to get past the Stand and strike the User directly.
How many opponents have JoJo protags beaten by not actually beating their Stand, but rather bypassing it and hitting the User?
Some Stands don't follow this rule, and can be damaged normally, but they're an uncommon exception, not a rule.
Whats even worse is when people say “well they can’t see the stand they automatically lose”
If this was true anyone with invisibility or telekinesis would be invincible
Technically invisible people would be invincible if you can’t touch them
@@MB-eh2kp unless you have a big AoE attack
I think if telekenesis were limitless in fiction, it would be basically unstopable. For example in Naruto, Pain claps everyone including Kakashi. However he had a 3 sec cooldown, that's how he lost (and also telekenisis may be vulnerable to non-physicals like laser beams.). Even Magneto seems broken, but he in fact has many weaknesses.
Invisibility is weak in the fact that it only stops others from "seeing" them but if the person fighting them has another way to detect them, its useless. In fiction there is always a catch to people's abilities or a weakness or limit. Its not that its impossible to defeat a stand user, but that its very difficult if you're a non-stand user. Take SP for example, yes DIO could lift an entire road roller and almost overpower SP. But can "we" (normal people) lift an entire road roller to crush Jotaro? No.
@@realdude1035 if telekinesis was limitless couldn’t you move around the enemies brain and mash it against their own skulls or move their neurons? You could also do the same with someone’s organs
@@dannyboers4704 exactly why they limit it.
I think that the basic idea "Only a Stand can defeat another Stand" has to do with defense rather than offense. If a normal person is attacked by a Stand user, they have no defense. They can't see the attack coming, and can't do anything to defend themselves. And, of course, we see numerous examples of ordinary people killed by Stands without the slightest possibility of preventing it.
That makes a lot of sense. I like your way of thinking about it!
Exactly. A person can only know what does and doesn’t work against stands if they can observe it, especially given the vast uniqueness of most stands. One can still infer what might be the same way we theorize about black holes in space, but that is a far cry from another stand user who can instantly see and observe the stands’ abilities. You pull a gun on a stand user. Fine, but you still have no idea what they are capable of. Are their powers physical or mental? Will the bullet be stopped or turn into a harmless piece of popcorn? Did they sense your intent somehow and won’t even allow you to pull the trigger? Can you trust your surroundings not to attack you? Can you trust your weapon not to attack you? Will they influence your thoughts, perceptions or even age? Did you just meet the requirements for an ability and are now trapped? How can you even tell if the stand is front of you and about to go in for the kill? There is simply no way for a non-stand user to tell any of this within the timeframe of a stand battle and survive without another stand user to lend them abilities (like Hayato) or inform them what is happening.
Unless the Character getting attacked is Much more durable
"Only stands can beat other stands"
the drug addict who shanked Diavolo: Allow me to introduce myself
Stand users can still be hurt 💀 also I’m not even sure if diavolo HAS his stand in the death loop
the fuck are you talking about diavolo was stabbed not king crimson
Me with my 50 cal warthog minigun with ap rounds
Me looks at jotaro “DIE ANT”
Bruh diavolo is a stand now
People think this is “ only stands can beat other stand users”
considering that killing the stand-user is the primary strategy used to attack and defeat a stand, I think what they meant by this was only a stand-*user* can defeat another stand-*user*, and they mean it more as a generalization than a 100% hard fact
like, DIO was able to - seemingly - defeat Jotaro's stand because he'd been able to watch it, assess its capabilities, and then try to plan a counter-attack. DIO even tried to actively avoid having this strategy reversed on him by keeping his stand's power a secret
a normal person *could* potentially kill a stand-user if they don't really have a plan to protect themselves, or if the no-stand-person gets lucky, but it'd be at least as difficult as fighting a vampire without hamon, if not even more difficult
Ultimately, "Only Stands can defeat other Stands" is just way better as a catchphrase than:
"Only things that kill the user or are able to project an insane amount of force, like a nuke or a speeding train or something, are able to defeat a Stand as long as it doesn't have some weirdo power that somehow reverses or undoes the effect of said thing being used against it."
The only thing that can defeat a stand user is an ambulance.
Ironically, the complete opposite strategy would be necessary for Dio, because that's how Jotaro was able to beat him.
Just some dude with a sniper rifle a mile out, same as most fictional wizards. The bullet will reach you before the sound of it does, so you literally can't react in time to put your Stand in the way.
@@HeraldOfOpera Unless your Stand happens to be able to react faster than the speed of sound, like say, unarmored Silver Chariot, Star Platinum or The World, or you have a BS OP Stand like Gold Experience Requiem, Wonder of U or that luck ability thing from the corpse part.
Mista might also be able to ricochet a bullet if Sex Pistols are out and notice the bullet, given that they can throw bullets around.
"Only stand can beat other stands"
Jotaro (in death 13's dream) : * get ora'd by himself*
?
That was a false SP
@@la-kr1kp FFFUUUUUUU-
It was still death 13
Ur comment doenst make sense
"How do you beat star platinum." Assuming I have all the resources in the world? Launch a nuke at jotaro.
its all fun and games until you use this on funny valentine and he activates love train
Plot armor activated
I think Jotaro could just shroud himself with Star? Sheer Heart Attack could incapacitate him because it's another Stand, basically a magic bomb, while Star is impervious to normal objects.
@@heresthadude1080 he wouldnt be immune to the radiation
@@heresthadude1080 You don't just shield yourself from a nuke. If the explosion itself somehow doesn't kill you, then the heat, the extreme change in air pressure or the radiation surely will.
And that’s why Long range stands are so scary cause unlike short ranged stands the user can just dip and now you HAVE to defat the stand then find the user cause if you try to find the user the stand will kill you also shear heart attack with out Kira is op
If you kill the stand the user usually dies
@@thepotatoofheaven nah some long rage stands damage doesn’t reflect to the user
@@thepotatoofheaven black Sabbath
@@thepotatoofheaven Not milagro man and Wonder of U.
@Deku Might when I mean usually I don't mean the exceptions like sabbath, but usually they'd still be damaged if not killed like heart attack from Kira or the puppet from part 3.
"Only stands can beat other stands" refers that physical objects or beings can't directly damage or defeat a stand.
There are two ways of defeating a stand user; either you defeat the user until they can't use their stand, or you defeat the stand which defeats the user in the process.
The first way, for example, is the road roller, which is effective only because it attacks Jotaro, if it only attacked Star Platinum, it would be useless since Star Platinum can just let the road roller pass through him. You don't beat the stand, you beat the user, and defeat the stand in the process.
The second way is, for example, the fight against Empress. The user, Nena, is not damaged at all throughout the fight and she's defeated when the stand is destroyed, not when she's directly attacked.
I dint want to be that guy but you just basically said "You don't beat the stand, you beat the user thus beating the stand." either way you beat the stand.
@@Requiem353 No, I'm explaining that the rule of "only stands can beat other stands" is usually misunderstood because a lot of people fail to separate the stand and the user. The only way for a stand to take damage is by another stand, yet this damage is not applied to the user, a user will only be affected if the stand is "killed". This is not the same the other way around, a user can be harmed by anything, be it a stand attack or not, and this damage will also be applied to the stand since the stand is dependent on its user.
You can beat the user with anything, thus beating the stand in the process OR you can beat the stand with another stand, thus beating the user in the process.
@@_MrMoney oh I understood what you meant I just wanted to start fuvking around, but the point in the vid still stands. If the stand is to weak to stop an ordinary physical attack from a non stand user who overpowers it the attack will still be able to hit its target the user.
@@Requiem353 Yes, that's exactly what I said. I'm not going against the video, just giving another perspective. Physical attacks harm the user directly, then the stand for being dependent on the user.
@@_MrMoney correct
"Stands are just a virus that puts you on the same WiFi plan, that's why you all see eachother"
Never before have been so offended by something that is 100% true.
You are stand user?
Wtf is a wifi plan
Only stands can beat other stands
Ultimate Kars:Allow me to reintroduce myself
Edit: Oi Kaleb! I turned the reply section into a debate of what stands can beat ultimate Kars. Join in if you have an opinion!
allow me to start thinking again
STEP
We haven’t seen kars fight a stand user tho
@@jentoniosjozefuck2930 what....?
@@NobodysCivilAnymore i had a stroke
"Only stands can beat other stands"
*Looks at Surface and Stray Cat*
Edit: since they can be damaged by physical objects
Stray cat is a stand
Because both of the are in a physical for surface in the doll and cat in the flower
@@literalgarbage8014 Yes it is a stand but can be visible by non-stand users like Hayato. Also Hayato could pick him up i go with him (that moment when he tried to kill Kira) so he could probably kill Stray Cat
Also strength tge stand can be beaten by none stand users
no surface can't be damaged by physical things, only the object it's possessing can be. now stray cat's different, it's an actual reincarnated living organism altered by stand energy and instead of having a normal soul from the jump like most beings in jojo before they get some spiritual ability like hamon/stand power, it's souls already standofied because of it's past life, it's body is literally an altered stand plaint so it can be damaged by physical objects.
I was always under the understanding that Stands were also a manifestation of the soul, hence why they're so connected to the user. It would also explain why something like the Ghost Alley would be ripping a stand from the user. It's literally snatching their _soul,_ which in this case happened to be manifested (as a stand of course). (õ∀ŏ;)ゞ
the "but really really fast" series puts it the best.
"only stands can harm other stands (except for when they dont)"
Stands die when the user dies
Polarneff: dont think so
When a stand gets hurt the user gets hurt in the same place
Polarneff: dont think so
When a stand gets deafeated the user dies too
Polarneff: dont think so
Also Notorious B.I.G.
Literally Servants from Fate series.
Masters Died Servant lives.
Servants Died Master lives.
Servants get hurt Masters aren't affected.
Unless
The Servant uses the Master as Mana Pool which would drain, hurt, kills the Master for Power. via enhancements & corruption.
Silver chariot fell apart and died after polnareff was donutted. Chariot Requiem is a shadow of the former stand. Silver chariot is long gone.
polnareff lost his legs in the fall and that caused chariot's legs to become pikes. its just that it floats around so it basically doesnt matter. but during the Cream fight, (and the diavolo flashback,) it did have legs.
going back, when chariot was destroyed, polnareff was already bound to the turtle and he no longer has a stand.
if you really wanted to use an example you should have used B.I.G. and Carne
@@Kobekola except for one problem....Notorious B.I.G.s ability, is literally to activate after its users death. It's a written exception, not something Araki forgot about.
Whelp we got another one
Kind of
“Only stands can beat other stands”
Gyro: Are you sure about that?
Technically he has ballbreaker which is a stand
@@CapitalistCactus Gyro Only had Ball Breaker at the end, he used spin most of the time so Ball Breaker barely counts
@@ComicalJaclyn Ball Breaker it's not a Stand. It's a Spin Technique.
@@WillWilliams420 I was gonna say that but its a topic I think would just become a debate, soooo talk to the other guy about it
@@WillWilliams420 kinda like hermit purple with hamon
I just realized how a normal person's perspective is when they see two stand users fight, you just see one man standing still and the other one floating in the air seemingly having an epileptic seizure
I’ve always wondered what would it be like if Jojo pulled a stunt like from Persona 4 anime where Kanji was able to single handily take down his own monster form Shadow self with a punch which was drastically different to every other shadow needing to be taken down by Persona’s both in the anime and in the game.
I'm not sure that's exactly how it worked. They had already beaten his shadow, him punching it was more less just to symbolize him accepting himself. Wasn't really him singlehandedly beating his shadow in a fight.
He'd punch it really hard with star platinum.
wait what? that didn't happen in the game
@@isovas_og he specified the anime, reread it.
I mean in the game you can technically beat shadows via melee
the perfect example of "Only stands can beat stands" "press x to doubt" is "When you know the rules, you can break and bend them however you want"
I could've sworn the original quote was "Only stands can damage other stands" Which is true if you don't count damaging damaging the stand user.
I don’t really think that’s true (even if it says it in the series). Like when star platinum stopped the truck with his fist in the wheel of fortune episode if hermit purple tried to do that I’m sure Joseph would turn into a cloud of red mist very quickly. Also in the same episode when they get pushed off the cliff in the car and heirelophent is using the tow cable to save them if I remember correctly they say something like the stand will be ripped in half if he tried to stop the car with pure strength
Explain road roller than
@@redrose5037 then
@@redrose5037 What exactly do you want explained?
@@dannymaher7766 I do still think that if hermit purple was run over but Joseph was untouched he'd still be fine.
I feel like anyone clever enough to defeat a stand user while not having one themselves is likely the type of person who just hasn’t awakened one yet.
"Only stands can beat stands"
Ciocolatta: I'll ignore that
If u mean against sex pistols im pretty sure green day attacked the since the scapel is show to just be used to cut ciocolatta in half
if you're talking about ciocolatta against sex pistols, the scapel is just used to cut ciocolatta in half. when he's going to attack giorno after that, he uses his stand
“Only stands can beat other stands”
Silver chariot requiem: *doubt*
You know he is a stand, right?
@@felipeangelo4306 He gets tripped by Bruno physically, without Bruno needing to use Sticky Fingers. He's a physically formed Stand that normal humans can interact with.
@@CorporealHunter yeah cause he wasnt a persons stand anymore he wasnt a fighting spirit he was a physical spirit
“Only stands can harm other stands”
*except to when they don’t*
"Exept for when they don't!"
-Viva Reverie, I guess
remember how dio deflected the emerald splash? he wasn't using his stand during that, yet he wasn't taking much damage. if he had continued it, he could've gotten up to kakyoin and outclassed his stand there
I mean yeah he is a fucking vampire
Because the emerald splash is an projectile that come out of Hierophant Green. It's *no longer considered as stand,* but rather and item. And every human (or vampire) could deflect Kakyoin's projectile granted that if they're capable of doing so (DIO buff body could deflect it, you could perhaps use a tank armor and it'll deflect it and more
@@WAyuso34 Ok? What's your point Dio isn't a stand
@@maturin7089 he doesn’t need to attack the stand he can just attack jotaro
“Only Stands can Beat Stands”
_looks at Diavolo getting stabbed by a homeless man that’s obsessed with a coat_
Ok but Diavolo isn't a stand
Lmao, you do know Diavolo isn’t a stand right?
I am convinced infinite death loop took king crimson away from diavolo because every situation we saw he would have gotten out of it he use king crimson
@@dr.stronk9857 Diavolo was already dead, thus his stand is gone.
@@dozobi1510 Kira had killer queen after he died
The example you gave with the stick figures and levels is a pretty good way to explain DND armor class too
Ngl, when he did that little "HOLD IT, OBJECTION" thing it scared the shit outta me lol i was walking to the fridge and fr jumped up
Well, Joseph beat the naked Aztec gods of fitness in part 2 without a stand
Spoiler for Part 6:
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Jotaro appears at the end of C-Moon fight
Pucci: you can't defeat me
Jotaro: "grabs a gun" I actually can
"Shoots Pucci"
Or
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STA PLATNU: ZA WARUDO
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STAR FINGAR
Also
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White snake: *pull out a gun* Parry this you filthy casual
Guys how kakyoin and polnareff get their stand ?
@@aliffaimn9135 They were born with it
@@EvidLekan but how is that even possible if the stand can only be awaken by stando arrow
babe wake up, new kaleb i.a. upload
bro i was having a good nap
@@chieludz sorry babe, enjoy your napping then
@@colored_printers664 your name and pfp are curse
I think it's both selective tangibility, and the difference in power between the stand and the incoming nonstand. If the stand doesn't interact with the object then they can pass through each other. If the stand choses to interact and is more powerful, such as blocking a bullet, then the stand is fine and the object is stopped. But if a stand is weaker than what it's blocking, then the interaction is mutual between both parties, like if a physically weak stand is used to block a bullet, then the bullet hits the stand like it's a person.
"Only stands can beat other stands"
*looks at Cheap Trick*
"Only stands can beat other stands"
Emporio: Hold my fractions homework
It depends on user's wish, like when Jotaro uses star platinum to steal the necklace for steely Dan, it's hand was able to pass through glass but hold the necklace. So it depends what objects user wants the stand to phase through and what not.
Easiest rebuttal:
Mista literally hasn't hurt anyone with his stands. He fires bullets that his stand kicks about. Any stand user he defeated, got defeated by a fucking 9 mil
*laughs in glock 17*
Why not 18
@@henkgaming1232 because under 18 is always better
@@n6no708 hol' up
@@n6no708 get the hell away from me, please
@@n6no708 wait-
Hey Kaleb, my roommates and I did a thing recently where we renamed all of the Part 3 Stands as musical references instead of tarot cards/gods and I think that'd be a really interesting thing to see you tackle!
Stand battles are like Yu-gi-oh, you can attack the enemy directly or the cards defending, but only if the enemy is open.
best analogy
But why do we even need an analogy its dumb simple yet these people are struggling to understand a simple fucking concept.
not true. secco vs bucciarati.
Basically kalab said "it may take a stand to defeat a stand but you don't need a stand to kill a stand user"
Enya combatting Silver Chariot with a pair of scissors
Well, the scissors have two blades, so clearly silver chariot’s only chance of winning is if he also has anubis
"only stands can beat other stands"
Gyro:hold my steal ball
Chicolatta: *Laughs in using scalpel to hit sex pistols.*
@@evangonzalez3363 When did he do that? Im pretty sure he just used his stand.
@@joegaddy2030 wait shiz I was maybe wrong about that? I kinda zoned out of part 5 and I think I heard that somewhere lolz
@@evangonzalez3363 Yeah. Chicolatta used his stand to attack sex pistols. He uses the scalpel to cut himself apart.
@@joegaddy2030 guess I'm dumb ┐(￣ヮ￣)┌
Beware The Forests Mushrooms in the background for people wondering
Now here is the real mindfuck.
What if a normal guy who can't see stands just poses infront of the Jojo crew.
I think Narancia and Abbacchio illustrated why you don't do that if you like your bones unbroken, even wearing slightly stylish clothes is a danger in JoJo word
Kaleb:
Me: I’m sorry...
*Did that bee just steal a noodle?*
Jonathan, speedwagon, the zeppelis, lisa Lisa, Joseph joestar, dio brando, the pillar men and Stroheim in EoH: wanna see me do it again
They Arent Stand Users
Part 4 Is The Only Stands Can Hit Standless Yes
@@Supereme_Cringe you didn't get it
@@Supereme_Cringe you really know nothing
@@imjonathan6745 why are you replying two times
Here's how I like to say it. "If you can't beat the stand, beat the user" Because the user can definently be touched by physical attacks.
I got major "yes but actually no" vibes from the first 30 seconds of this video, and I find this fact absolutely hysterical.
"Only Stands can beat other Stands"
K. A.I. : "Unless the stand can't stop it's user from being squished!"
i want the dio face to be the new template for doubt meme
Same lol
I’m glad this has been brought up I’ve seen people trying to debate Polnareff soloing MHA and HXH
Well i dont know enough about HXH but it is safe to say that MHA has a chance of being soloed, especially if you include silver chariot requiem. But then again… polnareff never was the most situationally aware so it is very likely he gets jumped or ambushed
@@KirBYEonyt nah if all you have to do take chariot requiem down is to destroy the sun behind your head then people with wide area attacks have nothing to fear also the My hero verse scales higher feat wise than HXH
@@LRUniversely both attacks were from stands though, so the “sun” is probably still a stand and can’t be seen nor destroyed by non stand users
@@LRUniversely also just throwing it out here that silver chariot requiem was only delivering the arrow somewhere else (probs jotaro) but since polnarreff isn’t dead here he can command it properly and even if they could hit the “sun” they need to figure that out first, all the while being attacked
@@KirBYEonyt I don't think he could control chariot requiem as he already once took the arrow away from Silver chariot before. You could also make a point that the sun behind your head is the user as it is one stand per user.
the only consistent way to explain the rules of a stands is ending with "Except for when they don't"
this "yes but also no" thing is true, because in part 3, jotaro used Star Platinum to barrage DIO, but it was hitting HIM and not the world
The fact that other people can't see stands gives them a massive disadvantage, but yeah if you find a way to kill them (like Road Roller then yes, you can beat a stand!)
Only stands can beat stands but you can still beat a stand user without a stand by attacking the squishy little flesh suit that uses the stand
"Quicker than the stand", so that means Killua could defeat Jotaro with his God Speed.
Jotora could still stop time
@@ascension230 he could just kill him before he can do it
@@Ilovemyfamilyandfriends-z3o no jotaro has fast reflexes but you do have a point godspeed is very fast but star platinum is too
Hypothetically. It all depends on if God Speed is actually faster, which it might not be based on the Hanged Man arc.
@@ascension230 Jotaro always says "Star Platinum Za Warudo" and than stops time, and Killua would kill him bevore he could say that.
"A virus that puts you on the same wifi plan"
is probably the best way to describe how only stand users can see other stand users stands
My only thing with regards to this is the need to consider the fact that stands are completely invisible to non stand users. Yes the human owner of these stands can be damaged and defeated, but only in the event that the opponent is orders of magnitude faster/stronger, such that they can out speed/damage the invincible invisible body shield that is a stand. Even if the opponent is slightly stronger and faster, the fact that they have no idea where star platinum is/ is attacking from would need to be taken into account. Granted if the opponent is several orders of magnitude faster/stronger than the stand than yeah 100% the stand user is going to lose, but just being able to "match" or being slightly faster wouldn't be nearly enough to make up for the lack of visibility when fighting.
Another analogy I’d use is; a stand is the light from a lightbulb, you can’t punch light but you can take a hammer and smash the bulb… just make sure the light doesn’t burn you
More like they are energy so you cannot hurt them in a way that the damage transfers to the user but you can overpower them.
"Only stands can beat other stands."
Hamon: U what?
DIO’s knife: hello there
This is so good, that I want to translate it.
"just be faster than the stand and kill the user" that's the whole video
"Only stands can beat stands"
Hayato: Guess I'll just die and loop back
The best example of a scene arguing against "Only stands can beat stands" is in the Wheel of Fortune episode where Joseph says something along the lines of "Your Hierophant Green can't hold that much weight, you'll die." when referring to the Jeep that the Crusaders are falling in. Kakyoin even goes so far to acknowledge that he would normally die if he did that, but because he brought the Jeep's winch with him, it's totally fine because Hierophant Green isn't carrying the weight, the winch is. In this case, the force behind a falling Jeep and several passengers would most certainly be enough to defeat at least one stand, with two stand users acknowledging it. Therefore, the statement, "Only stand users can beat stands" is not always applicable.
Stands can be defeated by Jeeps, Road Rollers, and Ambulances.
0:10 I think this applies to every stand rule lol
“Only stands can beat stands”
Hayato: “gimme a few days”
"Only stands can beat other stands"
**Flashbacks to red hot chilli pepper getting stuck in a rubber wheel**
and before that, Aqua Necklace stuck in a kitchen glove
Usually, and I mean usually, a stand can just faze through an object like a ghost without any worry. Unless that said object is about to inflict harm on the user such as a bullet, thus the stand would make itself interact with that bullet to protect its user. So if an object it's strong and perhaps heavy enough, it can overpower the stand and crush the user. Like maybe firing a missile or a building collapsing on them. It is possible to defeat a stand user without a stand, such as Gyro Zeppeli defeating stand users without a stand. Although that is mostly because those stands didn't really do fighting in battles but provide their users with powers instead. So it really depends on the stand and what you have at your disposal to take them out without a stand.
Jotaro: I just use star platinum to stop time, I can kick but myself.
Stand user: "Only stands can beat other stands"
Part 7: Ğ Ů Ñ
I wanna say. Thanks for being so great. In all the time I've watched your stuff I've never felt you be toxic, which is so strange for an anime channel
Heres a good example!: Remember the sun stand in part 3 and how jotaro’s stand had chucked a rock at the user? Well lets say jotaro used a anti tank rifle and precisely aimed it at the enemy stand user and fired. The bullet hit and (wont say killed) but severely injured him. The crusaders shipped the man to a hospital which in terms they one
won*