Air Dampers and Snatch Straps (Kinetic Ropes)?
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- Опубликовано: 30 мар 2019
- Air Dampers and Snatch Straps. In this video we test single, twin, weighted and unweighted dampers on loaded snatch straps.
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top notch real world testing , can't beat it. thanks for doing this , it will open many people's eyes & save lives. Subscribed & looking forward to the next vid.
Thanks Mark, the testing certainly opened our eyes, I personally haven't used my snatch strap since!
This channel deserves more subs and the video needs 100x more views
Thanks! You can help.by sharing on your socials. Cheers!
Agreed. I just sent this out as a safety video.
My feeling has always been that a dampener wouldnt be much use on a snatch strap. This test simulates if the recovery point let go. Be interested in seeing what would happen if the strap gave way in which case there wouldn’t be a hunk of metal attached to the end.
Karl - this is somewhat relative: I remember an article about a LARGE group of people having a little "tug of war" using a small dia nylon rope. When it snapped the release speed of the rope was fast enough to cut the fingers off several of the participants nearest the center of the pull. ouch!
As force equals mass times acceleration, and the mass would be slightly less, the acceleration (and resultant speed) should be slightly higher.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing mass would decrease significantly. The middle of the rope compared to the D loop and a thick tow strap loop?
@@78tag If I saw that kind of "fun" I'd run to and yell "STOP THAT!! Danger!!!"
Great video, what an eye opener!
Have always had a healthy fear of snatch straps, definitely an absolute last resort in my recovery kit!
Thanks for taking the time to be so thorough with this test.
Glad you enjoyed the video, the testing certainly gave us a new appreciation of the loads involved.
Brilliant! Real science. I still can't understand WHY dampers are so effective, but they clearly are.
Jesus Christ mate - welcome to the world of kinetic energy. All the energy your fourby puts into the strap doesn't disappear - it is released at a frightening speed and those shackles can cause so much damage. Thanks for solid and scientific testing, and sharing that. We need to show that at our 4x4 clubs so that EVERYONE knows what we are playing with when we perform a recovery. I was really shocked at the speed when one of those kinetic recovery straps lets go - amazing, and scary as hell. Is this why we say everyone not involved in the recovery, please stand clear. Thanks again Simon, cheers.
You should have been there!
It was like a shotgun at close range. I still twitch these days when anyone mentions a snatch strap or kinetic rope recovery!
Another great video. Really brings home the point of just how dangerous recovery can be if things go sideways. How do you only have 3k subscribers? Your channel needs to be discovered by the wider off road community!
Thanks! If you want to help, share and tag your mates who think might benifet from the video.
Just convinced me to source some soft shackles! Excellent video!
Glad you liked it!
this video is high quality hope you make it to recommended on you tube because people need to see this (liked and subscribed)
Glad you enjoyed it. We think there's a bit too much opinion on RUclips (With some notable exceptions)and we're looking at bringing facts to our videos.
Have been pulling logs the past several days and was always curious about the efficacy of a blanket laid on the line. I think this helps explain how effective it would probably work. Excellent demonstration.
Glad you liked it!
VERY GOOD VIDEO! COMPLETE TEST! vERY DIFFICULT TO DO IT...CONGRATS FOR YOUR JOB! TKS from Brazil.
Thanks!
Good little video guys. We never used to use dampers except when winching. Then it became the thing to do when using a snatch strap. And then I made it a habit as well. Not sure I should have bothered!
Thanks Ron, I've only noticed it becoming a thing of the last few years. Then it became a requirement in QLD and finally adopted nationally.
While the standard as whole is a good thing, I think our testing has proven that just running a damper or similar isn't really effective, should a snatch strap let go under load.
And frankly I can't see people wrapping their snatch strap with multiple chains either everytime they want to get unstuck.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but it certainly isn't the current "solution".
Phenomenal work.
Thanks mate!
That is fucking terrifying. Imagine being in your car with that coming back at you...
When you're right, you're right!
You can hear my "involuntarily" blasphemy in the background after one of the releases with the weighted damper.
I haven't reached for the snatch strap since!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I did and i chuckled to myself geesh glad you were not in the firing range. Great videos by the way.
Thanks!
The most scientific test of snatch straps I’ve seen. They should be used with great care. Spectators must stand more than the length of the strap away from the recovery site and never in the line of pull.
Thanks for the feedback Jason, each weight up to the damper/chain release/s was done multiple times and the published results were the averages.
The testing gave me a new appreciation of the forces involved when a snatch strap lets go at only half the rated capacity.
I just hope it makes a viewer of two next time they're bogged, go for the deflator or the traction board first and not reach for the snatch strap.
We were always taught to never attach a shackle to any kinetic strap. This vid shows what happens when a shackle (or towball) comes loose - and does it well. Bridle strap shackled to 2 points on a car with a snatch reeved over it, but never shackle a snatch strap direct. Now we have soft shackles the lines are blurred, but the original lessons still stand.
The only issue is the WLL or MBS of the soft shackle will be compromised with the sharp edges of most recovery points.
Great test video. I’ve always thought the dampers are not very effective. Good to see you demonstrating some actual evidence. We see many people advocating dampeners but minimal proof of their performance.
Thanks! The testing bought a whole new perspective to the energy in a loaded kinetic strap.
I think running the rope through the wooden plate you have is the best safety feature lol. Better that than my windshield.
Definitely better!
My thoughts for a long time is that snatch straps should have a full sized loop sewn into both ends , about a metre in on the flat of the strap, both ends. A lanyard, maybe a smaller say 2 tonne strap or synthetic rope about 3 metres long and would give an initial take up of about 2 metres if something breaks on either end, the loop or a recovery point. The lanyard could be attached to the bull bar or a weaker secondary point. Maybe use one recovery point as the main as the snatch and the other recovery point could be used for the safety lanyard. Maybe it would make a great video to supplement this video. By the way, very interesting and informative video. regards, Jimmy
I expect it to rip the bull bar off the car as there would be a sudden shock load that might surpass the strength of the bull bar attachment.
great video.
Thanks!
Anyone who has a winch on the Vehicle should be made to watch this. . That's some scary shit. . The only good thing I can think to say about dampeners is that it make me think about the dangers involved. Like a warning sign. Fantastic demo bro. Thank you. .
Glad you liked it! It was certainly an eye opener for us as well.
Thank you!!❤
SA4WD, Driver Training Unit( now no longer exists) have been using and instructing people to use drag chains as snatch strap dampeners for 20yrs or more, As can be seen from this video, THEY WORK and a lot of people carry drag chains as part of their recovery kit. Great educational video ,Well done.
Seem to work great, just can't see anyone bothering in the field, that's the issue.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing If you are educated and still don't bother to use a chain on the strap, then if things go wrong its on your head. You should really be using 2 chains, each placed a third of the way in from each vehicle, as the eye on the strap is usually where they will brake. A lot of people will carry a drag chain as part of there recovery equ.
I carry a drag chain, though honestly a lot of my mates don't.
The thing about a kinetic recovery is, it's a fast, little fuss recovery and that's why people seem to grab for the snatch strap first, as opposed to much further down the list.
If you're going to add the complication of adding two drag chains to the equation, a winch recovery now becomes easier and probably faster (which is not a bad thing).
It needs to be faster, lighter and also as convenient as just using the strap itself if you are going to expect people to use it.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yeah agree with that, little fuss recovery works when only a light snatch is required but when more effort is needed to recover the vehicle and no dampener or a non effective one is used that's when people get injured or killed.
So from that very well presented video , blankets are very much a crock of #### . soft shackles, stay clear and a solid steel plate on windscreen to protect operator.
Yep 100%, though a solid steel plate on the windscreen might block the view!
It seems like a simple deflector may be the best. (Akin to aikido - redirect the punch vs stop the punch) . The biggest heaviest thing around is the earth. If a car attachment redirects the force into the ground that would turn in from a deadly canon ball to ... ??? (a bone breaking bowling ball - kinda like at .5 tons when it hit the ground 1st and ). So maybe it would be better to deflect it to one side and hammer a stake into the ground to have the line wrap around the stake (assuming the stake could withstand the initial force) We'd all love a follow up to this one!!!.
I don't think weight is the answer, not enough doesn't do the job, and too much, well no one's going to bother. I think friction would be the best way
I really found your test very informative. It demonstrates the danger of a KERR or strap that transfers energy to to a heavy object. Kinetic Energy (KE) = 0.5 * m * v². "m" is the mass of the weight. It would be very interesting to see the numbers demonstrating a failure of the snatch strap only, no shackle. Would the damper help it that case? Maybe!
The numbers would be extremely similar without the shackle. Winch dampers just don't have the mass to sufficiently dampen the forces of a kinetic recovery.
Excellent work, and you have confirmed my suspicions about using dampers with snatch straps. Have you tried using a tether? Use a thee-meter length of (old dynamic climbing rope!) with a knotted or spliced eye at each end. One end is secured above the release mechanism (or to the vehicle) and the other end attached to the snatch strap. The idea is that the tether has to stop the mass of the shackle and strap. In practice use one at each end to protect both vehicles and occupants. I'd love to see this tested using your equipment. Again - many thanks for the excellent test.
The only problem I can see with the tethers is it relies on the snatch strap failing near the eye.
I've seen a few failures over the years, and while a few have been near the eyes, not all have been.
A comprehensive solution should keep the strap captive without regard to where it fails and able to effectively dissapate the massive forces generated.
A chain at both ends would almost fulfill the requirements, problem is, it's heavy and inconvenient, so next to nobody is going to do it. The solution needs to be light and take almost no extra time to set up. And that's the challenge.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing What do you think of the Ditch Hitch system? ruclips.net/video/rfEdPS7cxXQ/видео.html
Also ruclips.net/video/9QSkICTte4g/видео.html
@@christophernicholls4924 It almost looks like the perfect solution, light and takes next to no extra time to implement. The only issue I can see is that both ends connect to the same point, for a truly redundant system, you would need to connect to independent points at either end.
I would love to test it!
That is a great idea and alternative to dragging 2 huge chains around and rigging them up, dragging them through the dirt etc? But the big question is would a dampener work as effectively as the chain in dampening this impact?
Thank you thats good video helpful
Cheers!
Will show this to the boys at my 4WD Club / think the best use of my damper is to keep my arse dry on wet grass...
I've used the ones we destroyed at the speedway for the same reason!
I haven't tested them on loaded winch lines, they may be more effective there.
Take a piece of used winch rope and secure it to the stuck vehicle. Loosely tie several half hitches along the length of the strap and then tie it off on the strap close to the towing rig. If the strap breaks or the recovery point let's loose, the winch rope should grab it and prevent it from slinging all the way back to the tow rig. I've done this a few times, but never broken a strap, so I haven't actually seen how effective it is.
I think you might be onto a winner there. I would like to test that!
Great video!!! Must admit that I am VERY confronted by the end result! I always knew that snatching and winching was perilous in the event of a break, and this video has made me even more wary. The chain dampener looks like the conservative pick, but as you said dragging two chains around in your truck and then rigging them in a recovery is a cumbersome, probably very messy and a time consuming exercise.... Not to say I wont be doing it now based on these results.
But I'm definitely curious about Christopher Nicholls suggestion to use a couple of lengths of rated rope to tether each end to the vehicles as a independent dampers. Might need to have more than a few meters, maybe 5m for each with a separate connection to a secondary rated connection point.... This method might be more practical for me due to weight and size of this versus the chain option, but would it work is the big question? Are you up to test this out in your methodical way? regardless, thanks for the video, it's excellent!!!
Wow that chain is impressive!
Effective! Unfortunatley, I can't see people doing it in the field.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing aye! I agree
I've been saying for years, if you want a dampener, tie a loose rope to the strap a few metres from each end and back to each vehicle.
But the biggest problem is using straps rated way too high. The strap needs to be the weakest link and rated only slightly heavier than the lightest vehicle. These days it's impossible to find a snatch strap rated under 4500kg. Too high. They don't stretch enough and put way too much load on equipment.
Years back you could get 1500kg snatch straps. I had one. Used it to stitch lots of vehicles with my 45 troopy. Often snatching violently in extreme situations. But the strap had lots of stretch so wasn't violent on equipment and gave a much longer pull time giving the towed vehicle a much better chance of getting out of the boged or disabled position.
We completely agree that the strap should be the weakest link.
a properly rate snatch strap which is 2-3 times the vehicle weight should always be the weakest point, your 4.2t steel shackle has 5:1 Safety factor or appropriate soft shackles should have around 23t MBS. I completely disagree that a snatch strap should be only slightly heavier than the vehicle.
@@AlloffroadAu 5:1 safety factor???
2-3 times the vehicle weight? Yeah nahhh.... That's rarely going to be a weakest link rated that high. You'd be ripping recovery points clean out of chassis, and/or bending chassis.
@@TruBluOffroad mate that's the standard in Australia look at any accredited advanced recovery course or speak with a rigger 5:1 for metal 8:1 for synthetic rope is rigging standard. There is a good reason why you don't find snatch straps under 4,5t
Have a look at the bubba rope type of kinetic recovery ropes. They have better stretch charastics than a snatch strap. Ie they stretch more at the low end giving a smoother pull. You can get away with using a bigger rope which gives you more safety margin and still keep the shock load down.
some kinetic energy there, youre onto a winner with this video, you need to start selling gear , perhaps to help out with video production expenses
Thanks for the feedback Closertothetruth, we're just starting the channel and hope to get more traction in the coming months.
A lot of 4WD teaching is just word of mouth, (Like the recent adoption of air dampers on kinetic recovery straps) and I don't think much testing has gone into the decisions.
That's were the team at Lock Your Hubs 4WDing are looking to make a difference. Less opinion, more facts.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing A lot of truck drivers (4x4 rigs such as the Hino 300) hope you'll do this again but up around the ~8t range, but we/I really appreciate the video and that it was devoid of all the fluff/pointless music usually found on videos here.
@@jacksonrichards6700 Unfortunately 4T was our limits of the rigging on the day. Having said that I would like to ramp it up a little. We're looking to do a similar test on wire rope, synthetic rope and chain in the near future.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Well if you ever find yourself up in QLD (or Northern NSW) I'd be happy to help out/lend some gear (25,000lb winch with synthetic rope and some rather heavy duty straps for my truck)
@@jacksonrichards6700 Thanks mate, I do love OZ's Northern Latitudes (In Victoria's Winter!)
if anything this tells me soft shackles are worth a look, and ill still use a dampener. good vid but mate, cheers for sharing
There is definitely a decent argument for getting as much metal out of the rigging as possible.
I'm not sure I'd be trowing the damper out just because it got destroyed slowing the strap down. It's a disposable device if it done it job much like a fire extinguisher. I agree that we need to weight them as you demonstrated and this is the biggest thing not being done.
Not only did the damper get destroyed, the shackle didn't slow enough to not make it a deadly missile. Chain did, but whose going to do that?
Firstly, I believe the primary initiative should be to show exactly how potentially dangerous any kinetic recovery could be, and I hope what you and I are doing is going someway toward that.
Then show the benifet of the hierarchy of recovery or similar.
Though I think the end goal should be, considering that people are going to use a snatch strap for convenience even before getting out the deflator, is make a foolproof method, that is almost as easy to use as just a strap by itself. And finally have its inclusion with a recovery strap officially mandated.
Thanks. I love your scientific approach. I am tired of people passing on information that is just plain wrong at best and fatal at worst based on what they heard before. I would like to see how you attached the chain to the snatch rope. One of the questions that's still on my mind is do you add a chain to each end of the snatch rope? I am guessing yes as there is no way of knowing which end will give up the ghost.
For the chain method to be effective, you would need at least two, one near each end. While it seems to work, I doubt anyone in the field would bother for a quick snatch to move a bogged car from a beach exit for instance.
We need a solution that is reasonable cheap, effective, light and nearly as fast to use as just attaching the strap. The damper fulfills all those except for the effective bit....
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Posted it to my Facebook page now.
The single weighted damper had a 70% reduction of impact velocity, compared to 85% of chain wrapped end. Ultimately, all to keep clear.
Broke a chain towing a car by allowing slack, driving over the chain, and once the tow car resumed the chain broke where the towed car's wheel skidded the chain into the pavement.
I believe that it was only luck of placement with the single damper. A meter or so in the other direction and most of the energy wouldn't have been dissipated into the ground and would have hit the backstop at near full speed.
Though an exclusion zone is your best answer.
I've never seen a shackle or recovery point let go. I have seen steel and synthetic rope break and bags lessen impact. Possibly I'm inexperienced, but I used to run a crane and supervise rigging for ship cargo now
The process is to simulate a tow point being used in a recovery as opposed to a proper recovery point and failing. In overhead lifting you're using a FOS or 6 in the case of shackles and usually 7 with straps.
There are no standards to adhere to with vehicles recovery equipment and the FOS ranges from usually 2 to 0 where like the case of snatch straps are rated by MBS.
In addtion we're dealing with dynamic loads, not essentially static loads, like overhead rigging.
It's a completely different ballgame.
good video mate, I like to see some solid weighted dampeners without the carrying hole in the middle which probably would prevent the immediate destruction. Your video shows well why no one but the driver should be in the to be recovered and recovery vehicle and all bystanders should be out of the danger zone (in front and behind the vehicles) and at least 1 1/2 to 2 times the length of the recovery away. Was there still metal present on the snatch strap when you released it?
I haven't tested a solid damper, actually to be honest, until I saw your video, I hadn't seen them before. The end of the strap had a 4.7T Bow shackle attached. My primary thought was simulating a tie down point failure. We've got a steel cable and synthetic rope damper test scheduled for next month. I think the damper will be a lot more effective there, though time will tell.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing excellent, that's why I eliminated all metal (beside recovery points). Though I'm only using common sense so keen to see how the next video will go. If you have room for that use 2x solid dampeners and make two holes in the dampener and secure it tightly with cable ties to the rope or strap. (that's what you need to do in winch challenges) would be keen to see how that works.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing what happened to making this video? That's the test I am most interested in. Not terribly surprising that the heavy bow shackle tears through everything, including the damper. I am interested if the blanket stops a comparatively lightweight broken strap.
@@Josh-qr4gi Unfortunately the guy behind the camera has been called away with work for a month or so, so I've had to delay the filming of that video. Rest assured though, it's still happening!
What about using an old woolen army blanket or similar?
Its what they advised to use back before someone designed the bib type 'damper' and it became the must have item for the job. The blankets are relatively dense so will resist acceleration as well as acting as an air brake.
I believe they wouldn't be instantaneously destroyed like the dampners are, though aren't heavier than weighted dampners. While I haven't tested them, I can't see them being much better than conventional dampner.
Another idea would be for recovery rope manufacturers to add a small loop connection point off of each end of the line a few feet inwards towards center, then each vehicle could tie in or clip in at these point and back to their vehicle as a fail safe to keep the recoiling line and gear from reaching the opposite vehicle...
I've seen a strap like that, though what happens if it snaps toward the centre?
Love the video. Great job. The best solution for 4WD recoveries these days is to switch to soft shackles and snatch rings (which are lightweight alloy, and far less dangerous than a rated steel shackle as a projectile). I also prefer kinetic rope to the traditional Aussie snatch strap. Less extreme shock load, and they last longer, provided you keep them clean. For winching, synthetic rope on a winch instead of steel cable adds more safety too. And lastly, using any kind of kinetic recovery strap should be a very last resort, long after shoveling, rocking back and forth (if possible), Max Trax, etc. has been tried first. Snatch recoveries are only 'easier and quicker' when they don't break vehicles or people. If you DO need to do a snatch recovery, stand well away from the action and cross your fingers. Kinetic energy is a frightening thing - and the vast majority of recovery accidents are a direct result of it being underestimated.
I agree with just about everything, except about the snatch rings, they're horribly inefficient things!
Thank you for this video. What do you think of a setup where additional ropes are attached to the strap at about 1/3 and 2/3 of the length and the other ends NOT going to rated recovery points but just to some fixed position on the car. Not everyone has two recovery points each in the front and the back. And even if so, they might be better off using them both on the snatch strap. I assume that the forces involved in dampening a strap should be much lower than the ones inflicted on the strap during the recovery. I even wonder if an ordinary rope would do the trick or if it has to be capable of resisting high loads. Just trying to think of a solution that is easy and works for every budget.
Does that make any sense to you?
The issue would be the unpredictability of where a strap might let go. I understand they are designed to let go at the stiching of the eyes, but we all know that isn't always the case.
An effective solution would need to be light, able to effectively dampen a broken strap no matter where it broke and be convenient to use.
The only effective solution I've seen in action (though have not seen independantly tested) is the "Snatch Trap" I think it is called, by ditch hitch.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I see that problem too. At least there wouldn't be any metal parts flying around in this case, but it still is dangerous enough. I've seen the Ditch Hitch solution and I think it would make sense not to attach the securing strap to the same recovery point as the snatch strap as they do in their videos. But trying to think of a cheap and easy method: what would be a good way to attach a simple rope to multiple points on a snatch strap? How many points would be needed for this to work in every situation? And would it work at all?
@@end.of.scoring Rarely is cheap, simple and safe able to be used in the same sentence.
Firstly you would need a rope that is able to handle a dynamic load in excess of that capable of the force able to be generated in the snatch strap (so over 8T) and then you need some way to dissipate these enormous forces in a very short period of time.
Perhaps loops of rope like the ditch hitch system. Though as you've correctly pointed out, independent attachment points would be needed.
We're planning more testing of dampers (On winch ropes, both synthetic and wire ) so might give a redundancy setup as go while we're at it. Though I don't think telstra rope will be up to the task!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing You may be right. But if it's not at least relatively simple and affordable, most people will not use it. I'm just curious to find out if there is a way.
Does the dampening rope really have to handle a dynamic load in excess of that capable of the force able to be generated in the snatch strap? As long as it significantly slows down the snatch strap and/or keeps it on the ground, that should be sufficient, or not? Even if it were to break while doing so. There's a lot of kinetic energy involved, but not too much mass. It's usually not the whole car that comes flying at you, right? ;-)
I may be terribly wrong, and I wouldn't really want to find out about it in a real recovery situation. Anyway, really looking forward to your future videos. 👍
the safest method is to NOT use kinetic recoveries for what they are not designed for, Ditch Hitch says it correctly if you cant free the vehicle with a 6 feet shock load take a different approach. I dare to say you will not manage a well maintained and properly rated 2-3 times the vehicle weight strap or shackle if you stay within the 6-foot range.
Awesome video!!! Commentary is too quiet in one or two places, but that's ok. I'm going to make some soft shackles before pulling anyone out of a ditch!
Thanks mate! We've since moved to a different audio solution (wireless lav mics) so newer videos should be better in that regard.
I'm definitely a fan of of soft shackles!
You released the heavy hook. Will it make any difference if you snapped or cut the belt? (Except for your funds)
Best use chains or wire rope instead of expandable stuff like snatch straps. They won't fly that far I think. (Am I right?)
What about creating two equal length loops of tow or climbing tubular webbing, then use a friction hitch such as a prusik knot from each vehicle connecting to the main tow line, so if at either point a piece of gear were to fail, the backup would keep the main line from reaching the opposite vehicle.
That sounds like something worth pursuing.
I carry snatch straps in my recovery kit. I have never used them once. I have utilised MaxTrax, shovel, track building, jack and winch. Why would anyone want to go to their snatch strap as their first option?
110% and we need to keep spreading the word. It will literally save lives.
wow...
Well, if the chain is too much of a hassle, how about strapping an anvil to the strap. (jk)... lol...
But a real deadweight secured (secured very well) to the end which is likely to fly and cause damage does work... But, it is always the "BUT" that gets you on a great idea...
My issue is, the chain while effective, is only going to be, if people use it. And I think it'll be too much hassle for most.
I feel like at that point, the metal shackle might as well be thought of as a kind of really low velocity cannonball.
All the dampers are doing is making the shackle lose velocity as it passes through them like a bullet does through ballistic gel.
Yep, pretty much!
as I was watching this I got to thinking how about a 1 ft. round parachute made from nylon webbing attached to each end? if it catches air I bet it would work wonders. because it a constant drag through the air.
That would definitely be an interesting one to test, though would have to be designed to deploy correctly, I'm not sure how it would work if the middle of the strap failed.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing I was thinking the same thing - unless you can predict where the failure will be you'd possibly need a number of parachutes. Also the dynamic loading might exceed a parachutes structural strength.
But still its a very interesting idea in its simplicity and lightweight possibilities
I just came across this from a FB video of a rope breaking. Never thought of all is - have not had to pull a vehicle out before.
I’m wondering, what would happen if a rope/strap was pulled through a PVC/ABS pipe that was long enough to be near the vehicle hook ups. Would the pipe contain the rope? Or, would the pipe become a flying torpedo? Maybe the pipe would fail and break in lots of pieces?
I don't think a piece of plastic pipe would be heavy enough.
To the best of my knowledge dampers (a blanket type ) were used for ropes and cables to help stop them from fraying not the propulsion. Because the way it is being used ( orange colored thing is worthless )Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Fraying? The ends?
Lock your Hubs 4WDing I agree with you about the dampers you're using with chains but when cables break they do not break like chains the chain that you're demonstrating. Where ever the weak spot wherever it those is, usually only one strand of the cable will break at a time causing the cable to swirl in a circular motion around the cable and usually taking things out when it hits. Which I do not like being around cables when they are being pulled with a heavy bind on them. I get a lot of rabbit in my blood. LOL.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing fraying from abrasion. In which case, the blankets are under the rope or cable. Prevention of breakage rather than arresting breakage.
This vid shows a static test, so it is somewhat different than a real snatch. I'm not sure my method would work as well for this testing method. My method for both snatching and towing, whether with straps, rope, cable or chain, is to loop those tension links through 1 or more old tires. *_Make them part of the tension link and they will act as shock absorbers plus heavyweight dampers in the event of failed tension link._* Tires take a lot of force while deforming into an elongated loop. Old tires cost zero and their beads are nearly indestructible, while the tread cords provide backup in case the bead does fail. With a long tension link, several tires can be inserted at intervals. For heavier/faster snatching, where one tire may be too weak to handle the tension, 2 or more tires can be paired up to help share the load.
While the loading was essentially static, the release was certainly dynamic!
While I believe the tyre method should have the weight to effectively dampen the recoiling strap, I also believe (just like the chain solution) the average 4WDer wouldn't bother doing it as it would be too much hassle. The solution would need to be light, effective, and next to no extra bother for people to use, otherwise people won't.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing - I always carry extra tires, a floor jack, tire tools, and an air compressor, so if need be I can replace a failed tire anywhere. The extras are old and just to get me home, but can be used inline with any kind of tension link, without being a real sacrifice.
@@YodaWhat Out camping I usually have 4 people and all of our gear in a LandCruiser, so while I carry tyre repair gear and a single spare, I certainly don't have the luxury of have the room for a couple if extra spare tyres! I wish I did!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing - Well, it's _always something,_ isn't it? ;) If you have no room fir an extra tire anywhere, you could risk your mounted spare as a safety weight. If helping another vehicle (or they, you) you might even borrow their spare and have 2 safety weights. Or find a log? I am not out of ideas yet.
@@YodaWhat Great to hear! The only effective, convenient solution I've seen is the "snatch catch" I think it was called and is a second strap with loops along it's length to catch a broken recoiling strap. The only thing I didn't like about it was both straps used the same mounting point, for a truly redundant system you would need a second independant mount for the saftey strap. Having said that I haven't tested it.
Has anyone ever tested the breaking strain of the 5/8 hitch pin on the hitch receiver? I'm curious.
Good question! I've heard they're supposed to be good for around 12T, though I haven't tested it.
I was always told if a shackle goes flying you didn't rig it right since the straps should be lower rating than the shackles, strap should break not the shackle. What kind of rigging setup would send a shackle flying like that?
Connecting to a tie down point as opposed to a recovery point.
@LockyourHubs4WDing So would it be fair to say the main issue/educational point is to ensure that proper rated/certified recovery points are used?
As there should be no way an adequately rated, certified hard shackle should be failing, when the snatch strap breaking load is less than the shackle.
As certified shackles have an average minimum safety factor of 5:1, which means a smaller 3.2T rated shackle has a breaking load of 16T, and a 4.75T rated shackle has a breaking load of 23.75T. And when used with a standard 8T rated snatch strap, means the snatch strap should break well before the hard shackle.
The nature of your powerful demonstration - although not its intention - makes it out that hard shackles are bad. Which is not the case.
As they are actually stronger and less prone to damage and deterioration than soft shackles.
Where soft shackles have decreased breaking strength when wet, degradation of fibres with heat, and potential for fibres to be damaged on recovery points (often laser cut with 90° angles) - that can give them reduced performance and a more limited shelf life, ultimately providing users with a false sense of strength.
On a side note, loved the video and fastidious testing, just wanted to provide clarity on what I believe is the true issue you have identified.
Disclaimer: Hard shackles are not bad in this scenario, but if used foolishly elsewhere could be dangerous, as could most things when used incorrectly.
My true primary motivation for this testing was to show exactly how potentially dangerous kinetic based recoveries can be, and that using a winch blanket to mitigate the risk isn't a wise idea, despite what the Australian standard recommends.
If this testing gets one person to reach for the deflators or traction board instead of a snatch strap or kinetic rope, my job is done.
@LockyourHubs4WDing Thank you for putting together the wonderful demonstration - it certainly showed the winch blanket had limited efficacy, and that kinetic based recoveries using tow points could be lethal.
Question for you - do you think it is dangerous if using a rated/certified recovery point and rated/certified hard shackle?
And is there any chance you would be able to show a test - that models a more educated recovery scenario (I learnt under you at TLCCV) - of the snatch strap breaking WITHOUT a heavy (and deadly) shackle on the end? (I’d be so curious to see/know the level of danger of just the strap breaking. And that would also cover the scenario of a degraded soft shackle breaking.)
As from the comments, your demonstration appears to have scared people away from using hard shackles (which has a multiple times stronger breaking limit than soft shackles, at the standard rated limits generally used), and has them moving toward soft shackles, still for kinetic based recoveries, without full knowledge and education about the downsides of using and maintaining soft shackles, with their limited lifespan and need for replacement.
@@lukekowald I do remember you!
When using rated points, and hard shackles, the snatch strap should be the first to go.
I really haven't covered soft shackles on the channel, and probably should.
Would using an old tire slow it down?
It probably would, but it's a question of convenience, if it's not quick and convenient, people aren't going to use it. The chain worked well too. But next to nobody would bother so it's not a good solution.
Holyshit...can you imagine taking a shackle to the teeth with a rope break like that? Never a good sign when the sound of the rope letting loose sounds like a cannon shot.
The first time we let it rip with 4T of load on board was a real eye opener! And the sound was like a shotgun being shot at close range.
With the damage to out wood back stop, I don't think teeth would slow it down too much!
Lock your Hubs 4WDing doubt your whole head would slow it down much either! Lol 👍
110%
So its more of a comfort blanket?
😂 yes!
Why not some sort of safety chain like you would use towing a trailer? If the main line snaps the secondary would catch it.
Connected where?
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Maybe 3ft/1m from each end. The safety line would be tied 3 ft from each end and then clipped onto the towing point along with the tow strap. Maybe have the safety line a bit longer in length so there is slack. If the main strap fails it will be restrained by the safety line. Basically, tie 4 ft of strap 3 ft from each end..
@@mr.anderson70 similar to the Ditch Hitch Snatch Catch?
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yes! But, not the full length of the tow strap.
nobody around twice the length of the line when pulling. that's my law.
I completely agree, also if you can stand perpendicular to the run of the strap and behind a large tree!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Better dig a hole in the ground to hide from this cruise missile.
Haha
I know of someone where the shackle came through the rear door glass of the Range Rover while he was snatching someone out. Fortunately no injuries but a badly trashed car. Had there been chain on the snatch line it may not have happened.
It probably would have slowed it down enough, though it's a matter of convenience, and lugging chains isn't convenient!
What do you think this is doing to your truck FRAME?
Great question! I'm not sure, hopefully not a lot
I have watched a jean jacket stop a 1.125 in. wire rope in mid air. Was I dreaming ? Methinks not.
We haven't tested winch ropes yet, but it's definitely on the cards.
Could you explain just how it was deployed, please? Obliged.
How we released the snatch strap under load?
Lock your Hubs 4WDing, thanks for your reply, not to mention your excellently performed testing. My question was meant for Tomoko’s above. I naively thought his statement serious, but now I understand that he was pulling our legs. Well, he got my leg, anyways.
Snatch straps are dangerous they generate enormous kinetic energy. They are designed to do this as thats the force that pulls a much heavier vehicle out than the one pulling the other. Or it only pulls the lighter vehicle back pending conditions. My thoughts are use astronger steel cable tgan you will be able to break. Keep it in good shape lube it on a regular basis. I use both synthetic line and steel cable will always go with steel cable. And use one or the other never a combination of both. Chains are tge safest in most cases. But always best to stay out of the kill zone.
For winching I prefer synthetic rope, even with the higher maintenance and higher initial cost. Sythetic winch rope has almost negligible stretch, and in combination with it's lighter weight is a much safer proposition than steel cable. Though steel still has it over synthetic when it comes to abrasion and heat tolerance.
Please don't use flickering font. Make it easy to read. Thanks for report.
I quite like the glitch animation! Though I suppose it's not to everybodys liking!
Single weighted lowered the speed to 86kph. You ignored this result in your conclusion and dismissed the benefit of that compared to zero damper. Poor analysis. I’d go a weighted damper any day over raw strap.
Check the high speed, the only reason the bow shackle slowed as much as it did was much of the energy was dissapated when it hit the ground.
This was only because the damper was not exactly in the middle, it was located slightly to the release side. If the other side had of let go with the same bias, the shackle would have barely slowed down at all.
As you can't predict which side, if any will let go, I stand by the original analysis. Dampers either weighted or not, are ineffective safety devices for snatch strap recoveries.
Checked the high speed - it falls and hits the ground BECAUSE of the damper. I stand by my comment.
Travis Mason ya. I think that is the entire point of dampers, isn’t it? It’s to direct the energy down for two reasons. Not just to hit the ground and slowdown but also to reduce the risk of it going wild and into a windshield. That’s been my humble impression anyway. Regardless, I get away from any kind of tow strap.
Answer is Keep clear and dont use metal shackles, soft shackle are the go.
I love soft shackles and use them whenever I can, unfortunately most recovery points have sharp edges and compromise the strength of the soft shackles.
The other issue is most soft shackles on the market are a lot weaker than the metal shackles they are replacing.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing when switching to soft shackles I ensured all my recovery points are appropriately smooth and use a hitch receiver. Plenty of shackles on the market with suitable ratings check out Drifta or some quality recovery brands like Bubba Rope, Gator Jaw etc. I use 23T Gator Jaws Pro
Кто от Леонида Немодного?😃
Ну ... если "Нива" 1.5т, а на тросе тёплая, зимняя куртка.
То смысл есть.
You can still generate a lot more load in the strap than 1.5T even if the Niva only weighs 1.5T.
Please ditch the bionic man sound effects .
They're not sound effects, that's the actual sound filmed at 240fps slowed down to normal speed!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Oh wow just beyond my misunderstanding. Of acoustical at different speeds .👍
Soft shackles are the safest bet. Chuck all your steel shackles out
Unfortunately there are some circumstances where a soft shackle isn't suitable. For example anything with a sharp edge will compromise the strength of a soft shackle, most currently avaliable recovery points on the market you need to use a conventional metal shackle.
Though they do definently have there place.