4x4 Winch Dampeners | Do They Work?
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- After seeing a comment on a recent video, I couldn't help but go and buy some winch rope to find out... Do 4wd winch cable dampeners actually work!? Will your 4x4 recoveries be safer with or without them?
There seem to be a lot of different ideas, so it was really interesting to snap some winch ropes and find out!
The video showing how to work out the load capacity of a tree strap can be found here: • 4x4 Soft Shackles vs B...
Tightly edited, no useless info or rambling...top notch!!
So much crap on youtube these days, most of the self-proclaimed enthusiast experts have no idea what they are talking about. I like your style, well informed researched information.
Keep up the good work mate, you are miles ahead of everyone.
get yourself a dtu training manual.there going cheap as they disbanded.might learn something worth while.
@@phantomwalker8251 ????
this is a physics issue and it isn't actually as hard as you think. The tension between your vehicle and the anchor point is horizontal - the only force pulling the rope (or whatever piece has ripped off) down to the ground is the force of gravity acting on the weight of the rope. The majority of the force will be horizontal with only tiny downward force, so the rope will travel a long horizontal distance before traveling enough vertical distance to hit the ground and stop....if you add a dampner then you introduce a strong downward force only - there is no tension on the dampner because it is simply looped over the rope, it is not being pulled as part of the system. As such, if something gives then the downward force of the dampner will act immediately driving it to the ground - the heavier the dampner (i.e. filled with sand/dirt) the stronger force it will produce once it's hit the ground further reducing the horizontal travel.
The big question though is about placement - and you're only half right about placing the dampner half way along. If you only have a single dampner, then you are right, this is likely the best place to put it as you don't know which end will break, so you don't know which direction you're trying to prevent. But if something heavy breaks - say the bowshackle itself has broken or the actual anchor point on your vehicle or whatever has ripped off - it isn't the rope itself that's broken, but what it's attached to that has failed. Now this is a huge problem if you've put the dampner in the middle - because now you have a rope with a weight at the end and a weight in the middle. This is how a trebuchet works - and that's what will happen to the rope - the downward force applied to the middle of the rope will cause the weighted end to head upwards in an arc pattern - so rather than smash into the front of your vehicle and wreck ur lights or bonnet or grill.....it's coming through your windscreen. This is infinitely more dangerous for obvious reasons - you've turned vehicle damage into a potential fatality.
So, with this said, simple physics says you should add as much downward weight as possible (i.e. fill the dampners with dirt), and place them at 1/3 and 2/3rds respectively, as you said. This way if a component of the vehicle breaks off from one end or the other the trebuchet mechanism does happen but with a shorter rope so it won't make it to the opposing vehicle, and if something snaps in the middle, u've only got the weight of the rope itself traveling horizontally so the vertical force from the dampner will stop it as well.
moral of the story - you need 2 dampners for every pull, and if ur not using them ur playing Russian roulette. Lots of people make it through that game without a scratch....in fact about 5/6 people make it through....but that 1/6....you don't wanna be that guy....
Blake you’re right about the trebuchet effect. All the broken rope examples without dampers in this video all piled up at the attachment points. With synthetic rope it seems obvious to not use any dampeners, and just let the broken rope hit your bumper, or the tree. I use rated attachment points, and never use dampeners.
I'm thinking you should do as Ronny Dahl said, put them around 1/4 from each end, closer to the shackles on the end, so it has a better chance to catch the heaviest part.
How about using soft shackles instead of bow shackles. Ill use them for days over bow shackles. Kinda goes the same when some people out there attach to ropes and use a bow shackle. Use a soft shackle and its alot safer.
Blake, that was very well thought out and explained and, I believe, is the safest and best places to put the dampeners (filled with heavy material such as sand or dirt) when winching with Steel Wire Rope! Makes a great deal of sense although, we all know some situations become very complicated and when things go bad, they usually do in an instant. Think out the job before starting to winch, go slow and stay as far away from the front and back, straight lines of the cables (including turns from snatch blocks). In the worst of situations, throw a heavy blanket or large carpet across the windshield directly in front of you.
I loved your trebuchet analogy, it explains the danger in a way we can visualize very well!
I just watched his video on hard/soft shackles and your analogy with a hard shackle giving a trebuchet effect would only exist if you use really crappy shackles, proper ones are way stronger than the part that'll break. If you have a crack or anything in a shackle/anchor point you'd discard it immediately so I think that trebuchet thingy is purely theoretical.
I have no real fear of a synthetic winch rope failing. As per the comments below, it would be good to see how the Dampeners act when a steel wire, shackle or attachment point fails.
I'm with you. Synth rope is dangerous. SWR is lethal.
Watch Ronny dahl he has an awesome vid about it
@@rickfranke4886 If we are talking about the same video, already have. Really good to see, but he dosent use any dampers.
You know a steel cable would also be classed as "synthetic" lol ?
@@troopygino no, it wouldn't. In rigging it's Flexible Steel Wire Rope, anyone "classing" it as synthetic doesn't know what they're talking about and their advice treated with caution.
Wow, very nice man! good to see some actual experimentation and logic!
I would love to see the same experiment with a steel winch cable.
The physics will be the same.
@@thewiredfox2691 Well, the greater weight of the steel cable would imply more momentum (force).
Steel cable stretches more than synthetic.
I was waiting for someone to say that. Steel cable can take your leg off.
@@AussieHunta or your head!
you are constantly well informed and a great communicator. thanks for taking the time to explain this stuff to nus all.
I haven't seen anyone do this before. I've wondered how effective they were. It looks like they would be a necessary piece of equipment when using wire winch cables. Thank you!
This is the best video I've seen on winch dampeners. Nicely done... I'll be using 2 x weighted dampeners next time. People might 'poo poo' this as being overly safe but if everyone goes home after a winch rope snaps then it's done its job. Great videos
Smarter Every Day brought me here...
Grate to see these results More informed the safer we all are
Thanks for demonstration. Filled with dirt most diffidently. Thanks for your time and hard work. Great job!
Excellent informative info champ, your camera work and explanations are first class, don't stop doin what your doin, really enjoying your channel.
Informative man, you can see where soft shackles take a bit of the hazard out of a recovery
Legend has it that even if he was a high school maths teacher he would still smile. Once again teaching me a thing or two about 4x4 driving.
Very informative video, just buying gear for the first time in the USA. Thanks for taking the time to do this test setup!
Love the comment made by flashback5391 at the end 😂😂😂🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
😆😆😆
😂🤣😂🤣
I cannot believe anyone could thumbs down this or any of your videos. I love you and what you do. You are an inspiration to me and I’m sure many other humans!
Well I'm very new to owning a forby anf i learned something today. Bonza vid mate keep up the fine work yiur doing. Your fast gaining a reputation as the guy who talks through his smile.😁👍
I’m so glad I have two winch dampers, this video is incredible!
Great video! You have taken the common sense approach. I think two bags filled with dirt is ideal. The one third and two thirds is great By the l took advantage of your offer with the door step and it's awesome so thanks for that. I love your down to earth approach to things and it's awesome. Keep up the fantastic work. Chris from Australind.
The giant gashing hole on the rear right quarter panels of my truck is a major reason why I insist in draping a blanket or a product like this when pulling things under high tension.
Thanks for going through the effort to keep everyone informed! Legend
I keep a couple of exercise ankle weights in my vehicle, to keep things from rolling around. It's also nice to have them to stabilize my camera and/or lighting tripods when it's windy. Now I'm wondering how they would work as winch cable/rope dampeners. I completely LOVE having things that serve multiple purposes. Especially when they're extremely cheap!
That's exactly what I use. Keep two in my recovery gear.
Great demo. Nice showing a slow motion replay. No words needed - video footage says it all. Well done
I'm so glad to see somebody put this to test, has driven me nuts when people think that a broken winch rope just drops, its pretty simple, for every reaction there is a opposite and equal reaction. Love your work mate, keep it up
Thanks for making this clip Mate I learnt that dynema rope still recoils I thought it would not react like that
Would’ve good to compare the steel rope on a winch just to compare but to complain at all great job mate
Cheers
It breaks my heart that you're literally the first channel I've felt like subscribing to in, idk, ten years, and you've already stopped making videos 😂
Give us an Adventure Special or something sometime, brother! No need to resume regular broadcasts, but if you'd put something together on an irregular basis it would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
A fan from Alabama, USA
Another top video Michael! I'm only behind the wheel of a 'soft roader' yet I still find myself watching all your 4x4 videos. Great content... and you're to blame when I update my 4WD to something more capable and I head off the main drag!
Nice one mate - thanks.
A pair of old footy socks filled with sand also does a good job (and costs nothing)
I don't even have a winch, but one day I will. And I will know how to use it, and use it safely, thanks entirely to Australian channels. I don't think I've ever once encountered discussions of winching on any American channels. Thanks for this useful demonstration and explanation.
That was really interesting. Thanks for your efforts. In the beginning the shackle goes flying all the way into the tree. I think thats the worst thing that could happen: Something small and heavy still attached to the rope goes flying. The dyneema rope alone would not do much damage I think.
You clearly showed that loading the dampener is so important to make it work well.
In too many videos we see them used empty and therefore much less usefull.
Best video on this topic. Thanks for sharing it, I was looking for a comparison like this one.
Great video, fascinating to be able to view each option and compare. Thanks for producing the video and uploading.
Best information video on winch damps on the internet. Full information given
I’ve ordered 2. Finally starting to to get my self recovery kit put together
nice to see big changes , many years ago in northern Canada a friend of mine had his left arm removed by a cable when he was recovering his 4x4
Australian dudes are always so happy about stuff!
Nice one Micheal well thought out👍😎
The work you put into this was phenomenal. Keep it up and thank you!
Gr8 demo and clear explanation.
And another excellent job, well thought out and set up, well narrated, good effort all round. I have such respect for your art that I won’t even point out that it’s a ‘damper’ rather than a ‘dampener’, unless you’re dampening (wetting) something 😁. Sorry, OCD thanks to the nuns beating spelling & grammar into me .... 😢
Dunno how you find the time to shoot & edit so many videos but keep it up! 👍👍👍
Wet a dampener, cook a damper, sleep in a camper.....
Thanks for the demo! Very helpful. 4:34 I would reckon that if you loaded that brown blanket with dirt or rocks, you might have had a very heavy projectile headed into the tree. A reason to use such a device in the middle and not towards the weak end.
Thanks man for this experiment and the effort cost you spent to educate us in real way.
An actual guide. Great video
Nice work mate , the thing about cables and ropes is they do not always break where you expect them too .
As a young bloke I used to drive bin trucks with walk in bins ,
The bins where dragged onto the back of the trucks ,
with bins with a lot of load on them,
On occasion cables would snap ,
And the frayed cable end would whip around at high speed , you would be in a world of pain if one happened to hit you.
But we could winch from inside the cabin so the risk was minimal.
As a good rule of thumb I'd say not only put the dampers on , but keep people in the area and yourself as far away from loaded cables as possible .
Bro......You are better than PBS.....I could watch your videos ALL DAY
Genius. Thanks for sparing everyone a lot of time, money, and possible injury. Great, great stuff. I'm also grateful no animals came out of the bush and ate you during the process.
Well done! I agree that the middle of the line is probably best as you never know where the line will fail (or if it will fail).
Greetings from Texas!
Thank you for dispelling myths on the old Internets. Dynema doesn't just simply fall to the ground when snapping as stated by some other so called experts. I have seen a hook snap on a syn rope. Half of the hook was still attached. It was a freaking missile! People who don't think you need a dampener need educated.
Great to see everything in action. Great video thanks for sharing
Great video Mike , done by yourself, good job, no bull , you look so natural on your videos, keep up the good work, looking forward to your next one, cheers Louis
Thank's for the excellent video. Hope those guys out there who don't use these see this video and learn something.
It’s about time someone did this? Thought I was going to have to do this haha. Good vid cheers
Hi Michael back again,
Yep that was good. Good clear description of salient points (the important bits).
Actually I think combined this your current video & Ronny's (on snapping winch things) should be seen by anyone who goes 4x4 ing.
Perhaps it's usually far more dangerous for anyone standing nearby, than behind the wheel. Although flying shackles/wire ropes etc don't stop at windscreens either.
And please please do NOT hook up to a tow ball !.
Yet another important and well done video.
Oh and henceforth the T-shirt shall be known as the "Winch Cable Rope Blue One".
:)
Howabout if any of the hardware fails, i.e flying shackles and such. Nice vid!
Awesome video mate. Iv always wondered how those bags work. And you've made it really clear with great demonstrations. Seek adventure👍
Thank you for the information
When I was a marine engineer on an oceanographic research vessel we used winches and capstans (vertical winches) every day. The potential for a rope or "cable" (wire rope) breaking and flailing back was a constant concern. We'd fix a "weak link" like a thinner piece of "cable" somewhere into the system so we'd know where the break would occur. Then we'd tether a length of nylon line on the load side just beyond the weak link so if the system did part, the tether would hold it. Of course, there had to be enough slack in the tether so the load would not be transferred. From time to time, lines did part, but the tethers always held. In an auto recovery I would prefer this system holding the line over 2 or 3 bags of dirt.
Nice, informative presentation. Now I want to know what that tree structure is. Is it a hunting blind, the beginnings of a tree house, or something entirely different?
Michael, great you addressed the proper use of cable dampeners, rather than repeating "opinion" - facts always win.
Just to clear things up a bit, these items generally fail at fatigue points - frayed ropes, fatigued bow shackles etc. so the risk of any one of those items breaking is really unknown. There will be some correlation with the items rating when new, but fatigue will have more to do with time, number of uses and general treatment of these components.
If you really are stressing some component beyond its specific rating, then you need your head read, on the other hand failures occur because everything deteriorates with time and use, so by all means match the bits in terms of rating, don't over stress anything beyond the weakest links' limit and be prepared for fatigue failure - hence the dampeners and clearing people from the area.
Awesome video! Really show how it works! I saw one video where they wrapped a recovery strap along the middle third or so.
Good information and very well presented. Nothing beats a good practical demo to prove a point. Safest method obviously 2 Dampeners weighted as you said 1/3 or 1/4 of the way from each end. But if someone doesn't own a Winch dampener use anything similar eg swag bag tool bag heavy blanket or even an article of clothing that can be weighted to help minimise the risk. Mate this channel is going to go a long way and should be a go-to for anyone wanting to get into camping/4wding.
Thanks for the demo I’ve learnt a good lesson
Another good job. I like the two dampener method at one third intervals, no matter where the break all cable/rope lengths are short. Always use full of dirt/sand as empty is basically just a flag.
I would love to see you do the same situation with a soft shackle set up
Great video presentation! Clearly the winner is the bag filled its dirt IMO. Just a thought though when helping to recover another vehicle - what if the recovery point on the other vehicle fails and the bow shackle at that end comes flying back at the recovery vehicle? I see a follow up video coming! Thanks again. Keep up the great work. Cheers. Jeff
I would really like to be able to see this done with wire rope. I'd also love to see actual Hooks and bow shackles fail and fly through the air and see how the dampening works. Is definitely safer to work with synthetic rope and wire rope.
Champion!! Great vid and thoroughly tested. Killin it!!
Very cool video, thanks for sharing!
Awesome video man, definitely answered all the questions and theories!👍🏼
Do you fill it with water? Is that why you are calling it a dampener? Because it makes the cable wetter?
A DAMPER inhibits the movement of something. They look a lot like that orange thing you were using.
Or is it an Aussie thing? Like Alu-minium instead of Aluminum?
Given' ya the gears, mate. Best 4X4 channel on RUclips!
Language is a funny thing 😄. I wouldn't have a clue why they are called dampener's here, but they are 🙂.
Thanks Marcel 👍
Your video was very helpful THANKS for sharing 👌 👍
I watch your videos because I watch other channel of Australian guy talking about gardening. Something about the Australian accent that makes you guys so much more enjoyable to watch. I am Czech living in US.
Fyi, I have similar hat, but wonder about yours, what make is it, and can I buy it here?
Good to watch. What brand is the orange dampener?
one should have dampeners in the equipment, but surely there are recovery equipment bags that are shaped so the bag itself can be used? If not, It is a no-brainer for someone to make them IMO. Disclaimer: I'm not an off-roader, just interested. I've got an old Jeep Cherokee -78 and my DD is a Subie Forester XT 2014 that I want to go very light off-road in, getting a 2-inch lift someday. What I'm saying is that I may be talking jibberish :)
Great content, as less than a beginner, I can still follow and understand it all!
Awesome Video Mate thanks for the great content. From New Zealand 👍🇳🇿
I've seen dampeners fail, Question do the dampeners your using have Velcro close to the rope/cable? thus trapping the rope from whipping through the dampener? some I have seen don't?
How much load was on the rope at fail? I've done the same testing with winch dampers and snatch straps with a load cell at 4T and the damage didn't really start below 2.5T of load.
We clocked the bow shackle at around 340kph without a damper at 4T and just over 300kph with an unweighted damper. Every time I tried a weighted damper it just destroyed the damper/s either placed in the middle third or one at each end.
jesus christ dude awesome video you deserve a lot more views
I like your videos also, subscribed a while ago.
Thanks for the kind words :)
@Lock your Hubs 4WDing
Your test was with a heavy shackle at the end, which is informative, but an unsurprising result. I appreciate your video very much, but I am glad I saw this video as well. I really want to see what happens with a snatch strap and a tow strap when it fails with a damper on it. No heavy shackles flying around, but the straps may have a very different type of load flying around, which may or may not be affected by the damper.
@@AltitudeOutlaw At 4T there would be same potential energy whether the bow shackle was there or not. Without the bow shackle the strap would accelerate faster and reach a higher top speed. It's f=m x a or force equal mass times acceleration. Or A = f /m so if the force remains the same and the mass is decreased, the acceleration would be increased. Hope this helps.
Couple things I'd like to comment on:
1. I'd like to see a test with a tow strap and also a snatch strap. Do the dampeners help on those at all?
2. The ending comment about the bow shackle/strap breaking - the dampeners will not help even fully loaded if the shackle brakes and comes flying back at you. The contained energy is going to send that very heavy shackle flying back and even 10kg of weight is not going to slow it down any appreciable amount. It will rip right through those dampeners and keep going with no trouble at all... so in the case of something other than the rope breaking, the dampener is all but useless and placement is totally irrelevant.
I've always been of the idea that you need something heavy to pull the cable down. So many channels say to just throw the dampeners on or even a jacket works in a pinch?? You just as well off using a plastic shopping bag in that case. I'd say if your going on a long wheeling session and you think that you'll be needing the winch a lot. Just pretty fill them with dirt then if anyone needs a bag then boom ready to go.
I like your show
But my question is what do they do for cable I've seen cable break and it breaks a lot different they can go actually go to the left or to the right or straight down the pipe and over the vehicle
lot of people still use cables on their winches and don't take care of them so I'm curious what do they do for cable?
And 👍👍
I had a strap break during winching and luckily I put the weight bag a foot behind the hook. Didn't get the recoil .
Only a foot or two with steel line.
Nice job Mate!
Very interesting to see thanks for the video mate
Awesome video I didn't know the correct way and you proved the best way.
Great content as usual :D keep up the good work.
mate... your videos are top notch and only getting better. keep it up
great test Michael, I have always used two dampeners, I thought maybe a bit of overkill but it works for me, love your research Michael
Thank you for the video. Very helpful.
Many thanks for spending ropes for our safety..
best 4x4 channel around
Awesome testing!!!
I’d be curious if the downward force from the dampener is actually causing the rope to break sooner? Probably by a very marginal amount not worth worrying about and obviously its safer to use the dampener, but science!
That was an excellent video, thanks Michael. Keep up the good work.
I believe, dampener needs to be put close to potential heavy projectiles that may result in rope failure. Things like shackles or snatch block. The synthetic rope flying through the air looks impressive, but is not ultimately very dangerous, while failed shackle can do some serious damage.
I didn't see you test it filled with dirt near the end, but either way, I'm convinced from your testing that they do work, and that the best way to use them is with weight in them, and at least one in the middle. Until I watched this, I would have said to put it near the end if all you have is one. Thank you for the time, effort, and expense to create these videos!
I would tend to think that the tree strap is only capable of its rating, not more. While the 2 ends may meet and together be stronger at that spot, the rest of it goes around the tree only once, so the weakest point will be in the center on the backside, where that is where its rating comes into play. I could also be wrong, but I haven't seen any definitive tests on the subject, so all I have is my own thoughts on the matter. Maybe that would be a good test video as well.
Also, as at least one person @Stiaan Els commented, it would be nice to see a steel cable tested. I'm sure that its energy potential would reveal quite a bit as well.
great test! thanks for sharing
Hey Michael, while you're there, try this.
At one metre from breaking end, tie a shackle into the winch rope on its own. Put the dampener straddling the shackle. Then hook up the rope per your method and overload it.
The elastic rope should then hurl the shackle tied into the end of it. I want to see if the dampener will slow/stop the passive shackle tied into the rope.
The flying shackle is the menace not so much the rope. Let's see where the dampener should be to dull the shackle.
I always think this when watching 4wd action. They never fill the dampeners and usually place them closer to where they're winching off.
Vanzy
They're probably more worried about the hook, as that will store a lot of energy.
Plus when your winching, the rope is getting smaller on the vehicle side of the dampener, meaning if it does break at the anchor point the hook has enough length to reach the vehicle before the dampener takes effect.
Synthetic rope doesn't store much energy, so will not go through your windscreen like a lump of steel.