Why Dune is still Impossible to adapt // Dune Part 2 vs Book
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
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Dune 2 hit cinemas in March and has sparked conversations regarding Paul, Chani, Spice and all things Dune. In this video I attempt to clarify all confusion and explain the changes to the original story.
Video essay about Dune Part 2, other Dune adaptations and the Book counterpart.
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In a Story like Dune, you don’t have heroes and villains. But you do have a Cause and Effect.
You don't consider the Baron a villain? Or his nephew?
Hard to argue the Baron and co aren’t villains. They’re almost cartoonishly evil.
I’d agree that heroes are more of a grey area. Would Duncan count? I never got through books 5 and 6 and I believe he’s in them so not sure how his ghola character changes
Couldntve put it better
@diomedes7971except for them of course but they are more of obstacles and threats to overcome rather than characters to interract with.
@diomedes7971 no, they are just not good “people” in general. Same goes the Atraides, they are not the good “people”. In the book, you get more details about the intention and inner thoughts of Duke Leto by making an alliance with the Fremen.
Not really, an alliance. He just wanted power.
Speaking only about the movies, Paul’s primary decision at the climax was to act or not. Either choice would have made him a villain in the eyes of the someone. Can’t protect Arakis effectively without power, but that power is the thing that makes him hated by the universe.
If I could change one thing that was left out of the books, I think it would be the fact that Paul was trained as a mentat. That would require an entire explaination of what a mentat is, but it goes so far in completing the understanding about how Paul is able to combine the his ducal training, his bene gesserat training, his crafted bloodline, and the prescience from taking spice - and then using the mentat training to basically stop time in his mind and do immense calculations of the past and present in order to see all possible futures. I….guess that’s probably hard to explain in a film tho.
He literally had dreams about Chani calling him “Usul”, before even going to Arrakis. His visions were not mere calculations.
Not what they said is it though@@tim_is_random
good point, but I am afraid this could hurt Messiah and Duncan's story in the long run.
@@tim_is_random True, but he had already been undergoing some mental training at that point, no? While still on Caladan, I think there’s a part where Leto I tells him they think he has mentat potential and they have already started preparing him by way of subtle changes to the course work. I definitely remember his dad remarking that a Duke-Mentat would be a force to be reckoned with if Paul can harness his potential.
Could be wrong, but it would make sense that the visions and the mentat training started at the same time. FH seems to imply that there isn’t really “magic” in Dune, just human potential explored to the extreme, so I’ve also generally viewed the mentat training as one of several ingredients that amplified prescient abilities.
Now that I think about it, in that same scene at the beginning, they already talk about easy it is for mentats to get lost in the sea of calculation and multi-dimensional thought blah blah blah, and how they have to anchor themselves somehow, just like anyone who drinks the super-spice has to in order to live. Plus, they say Paul could potentially join the Spacing Guild if he completes mentat training, and seeing as the guild ultimately wants its advanced members to become prescient navigators, I’m actually now 100% sure there’s a correlation lmao.
Sorry 4 wall of text
@@noahmendoza8548 Where and how does Herbert imply that? Prescience is about as close to “magic” as you can get. Also consider the fact that Paul can never “see” Count Fenring in his visions, as Fenring also possesses the power of prescience (two prescient beings would not be able to see each other’s moves in the future, without creating a paradox).
Absorbing the ancestral memories of others seems pretty magical to me - and also not mere “calculation”. Alia being born with a mature mind is an exemplar of this.
Neither the hero or the villain, at the end of the day..? Paul was a victim of circumstance. One that was all too human.
It was the ONE point Mr Herbert made, that almost no one understood: Beware of Charismatic Leaders - because they are JUST as fucked up as you.
Nice work. 💯.
Exactly. He wanted revenge on the harkonnens so he tried to use the fremen to fight them. By the time he realized the path this would bring him down, it was already too late.
What makes you think no one understood that? In any case, Herbert was referring to that as an overall theme of the series, not the first book specifically, where that theme is hardly developed yet.
@@JBoxy7I never bought the "it was to late when he realized" I believe that it was more a "he could have choose a different path but he took the path of revenge well aware of what it would bring"... but that doesn't make him a worse character.
@@Nightmare704RY he did have a vision just after the invasion I'm pretty sure. I dont think he fully realized what it was for a while tho. In the book you may be right but In the movie at least he for sure didnt know, otherwise we wouldve fully leaned into the prophecy from the beginning. The movie is much more clear about it then the book. He goes down a path of revenge, sees where it's going, tries to avoid it, then realizes its impossible after he takes the water of life.
@@JBoxy7 I'm talking about the books, in the book he knew from the start before making the choice, still choose violence.
I really missed the spacing guild in Part Two. They are essential in the book for confirming that paul can actually destroy all the spice. Because the movie changed how Paul threatened to destroy the spice I guess that they were not needed anymore, but without them the ending still feels empty.
I missed them as well, I guess DV is saving them for messiah
I think the main reason for this change is that it gives clearer motivation leading up to the events between book one and book two. The spacing guild doing what they do works for a stand alone story ending with Paul becoming the space emperor (which I believe was the original intention). Their presence in the story makes out and out war much less likely, of course it is easy to come up with an explanation but in the context of a film where every second is valuable and traded off against other parts of the story that you could be telling, cutting something that also cuts additional need for explanation is a win / win.
Thufir Hawat's story was so well done in the book, I was sad to see so little of it make it into the movie 😕
Very fair and insightful analysis of the movie adaptation. Many fans have trouble swallowing the fact that when going from the page to the screen, the source material has to be surgically dissected and stitched back together in a way that often feels like a mutilation of the original. Time constraints entail a counterintuitive tradeoff between faithfully adapting the book’s plot and faithfully adapting the book’s themes.
How do you explain the miniseries making a better job with less time? Those are just excuses. Is not about making changes, is about executing the changes right with a good script.
I’m not saying that the Denis Villenuse movie is definitively the best Dune adaption. If you think the miniseries better juggled between keeping the plot vs theme intact then that’s fine lol
@@di3486 You seriously think the miniseries did a better job? Ok dude.
@@TheSpeedPhantom absolutely.
@@di3486then go watch it loswr
Hats off maight, crazy good analysis, maybe the best I’ve seen
Very good analysis. Made me think a lot about screen adaptation of a novel like dune. I agree that the dune 1 & 2 movies follows the traditional hero story closely, but at the same time stay close to Herbert’s warning on the danger of the hero.I do however see Dune 3, with an adaptation of Dune Messiah, as a potential masterpiece in the making . A screen adaptation of Dune Messiah could transform the hero/vengeance storyline to a story reminiscent of the great Greek tragedies or Shakespearean dramas. I would love to see a blind, bitter man wandering Dune, warning his family of the dangers of his own legacy.
Thanks mate, I agree completely
Villeneuve's reason for shortening the timeline from years to months was that there needed to be pressure on Paul to move the story forward.
Nah, I think it's because Alia COULDN'T be born. Let's face, there's no way in hell they would have managed to make a toddler behaving like a full grown adult without it feeling out of place, so they decided to make her a talking fetus instead. And for that, the timeline had to be compress.
I think that constitutes as pacing though. That and the problem with baby Alia :)
Paul is the tragic hero like Oedipus
Pretty much agree with everything you said. Directors like Villeneuve give me hope, can't wait for the next movie and your video about it!
Loved the video, would love to see even longer video essays in the future!
It reminded me of The Godfather how Paul ultimately decided to embrace a violent path of total control to destroy his enemies.
Paul actually saw the same "Golden Path" his son Leto II has seen. But he was afraid of undergoing the transformation into a human-sandworm hybrid and loosing his humanity.
@@DrFrankNStein-sf2ww you are correct mate, I didn't want to spoil 3 books and potential movie sequels in this video tho :D
You either die a Hero or live long enough to see yourself become the Villain.
Chani was too bland in the books imo, I like movie chani much more as she has more personality lol. No one would accept what Paul does at the end with the princess
But this way we didn't get to see the scene from the book where Jessica tells Chani that they are the ones history will remember as wives. 🫤
I'm not feeling Chani's acting .. the rbf Zendaya is making and the same poker face from Spiderman is getting annoying.
In dune 1 she was way more mysterious looking.
Rebecca Ferguson on the other hand... @@IamNinjaOfNinja
Bland in the books? She is one of the favorite characters of book readers. Bland for your western taste.
@@IamNinjaOfNinjatotally!
It was a tragedy to see no Guild Navigator. I was awe struck by the film and disappointed. I did not appreciate the change to Chani. But I do still appreciate this film.
I can see that point of view for sure
I LOL'd at "Muh golden path"
Something something... golden path :)
If they ever do God Emperor of Dune, they bring James McAvoy in to play “Old Worm” (aka Leto II )
I think that, in less than a generation (hopefully Hollywood keeps its grubby paws off of the IP in the meantime after Villeneuve completes his trilogy), it will be possible to do a high-budget, top-billing Dune television series. One season per book. Hour per episode, roughly. Game of Thrones is just one precedent but there are countless others. That way, a slow burn and meditation on Dune's essential themes will be able to be dealt with properly, key moments of dialogue and exposition will be included. Character change on a Shakespearean scale will also be possible over season-long scales of time for Paul, Jessica, Irulan, etc. It won't be perfect, no adaptation is, but I think we can get there with the right team of creatives and actors that are as magnetic as the cast of Villeneuve's film. I will never stop dreaming of Arrakis.
I loved Dune pts 1 & 2, but if Denis Villneuve is serious about doing Dune, he _has_ to do Children of Dune, because the story of Paul Atredes doesn’t end with Dune Messiah 😉
I hope you are right, I would definitely watch that!
Missed the “only” when I first heard the Shawshank mention.🎉
I have watched that film ~50 times.
great analysis, hope it reaches the audience
Thank you mate!
To me the big lack of the movies is that they really don't convey just how important spice is in the universe. In the books it is part of nearly everything that makes the universe go.
That is something we will just have to swallow I guess, but I feel you
One of the greatest sci-fi movies ever made, in my opinion. It was remarkable even with the changes. I would like to seeyour take o the SyFy channels version, which I admit enjoying.
Agreed, and I might do just that in some time!
Some of the changes bothered me initially I think because my expectations were subverted, but I’ve come to love part 2 after a few rewatches.
Glad to hear it man!
As a longtime book fan, I think the Villeneuve DID manage to adapt the book successfully. Could he ever be completely successful? No, the book simply has too much exposition and has way too many internal monologues. But damn, it comes about as close as any movie can.
Personally, I would have loved to see the first book in not two but three films. And have a mix of the faithful adaptation of the sy-fy series but the budgets and visual of villeneuve movies.
Personal opinion of course that only engages me :)
EDIT: There is also pacing issues with the villeneuve movies. Sometimes things are moving too slowly and then, suddenly, things go way too fast. Again, personal perception.
The Villeneuve Dunes are fantastic, and sacrificing a lot of stuff to primarily make it a Bene Gesserit story turned out really well
But goddammit what I wouldn't do for both movies to be insane 5 hour slogs that also included mentats, the guild, and the landsraad
And the damned dinner scene
I would pay good money to watch that but I get you :D
Yeah making the Bene Gesserit more prominent from the get go works really well for setting it up as a trilogy and possibly beyond.
There are always changes made from medium in a story.
Although the Syfy channel miniseries made a valiant attempt to incorporate a lot of the book elements, even that had changes, like giving Irulan a much stronger role.
And as has been pointed out, at six hours Villenueve's Dune is longer than the Syfy miniseries.
I think Villeneuve's Dune succeeds in paring back a lot of the extraneous elements that will work in sprawling novel, but would bog down a movie.
There are elements from the book I missed, but not by much.
I think Villeneuve was wise to ramp up the religious manipulation, and downplay and streamline the political machinations.
I was left wanting more after seeing part 2. I could've watched 15 more minutes of the Harkonnens, the final battle could've been longer.
But if your only complaint about a movie is that you wish it was longer, that means IT WAS A GREAT MOVIE.
It was a great movie indeed mate, I enjoyed pretty much every second of it.
Still the Miniseries is the best adaptation.
😂😂😂
lol, no
@@tim_is_random lol, yes.
@@di3486 If you’ve never watched anything else, sure
More accurate to the book but unwatchable. Did you see how the Spacing Guild ambassador acted? Someone told him to act with his hands and he certainly did!
I keep hearing that Frank was disappointed in how people saw Paul, but why would he portray his mortal enemies as blood thirsty tyrants, greedy to the point of absolute desolation to many (e.g. the Atreides destruction)... A company with absolute control on the thing that drives the entire economy of the universe! And Paul is fighting back against this system is wrong? I get that Leto the Second is meant to be a tyrant, but his purpose was far more important in breaking the stagnation of the universe, and its dependency on spice.
No, I think Boeiing had a word with Frank, and told him to tone it down some... which is why we are blessed with 5 more books from him.
One thing i like more about Lynch version is costumes. Have no idea if they accurate to the book, but i never belive cosmic empire inspired by arabic motifs would be dressed so blend and "smoothe" like in Villeneuve adaptation. They should be much more collorful, much more chic.
I guess it is up to personal taste, but I actually loved the costume work on DV's Dune and Lynch's Dune as well, respectively.
No he knows he has to lay the golden path.
muh golden path... (yep you're right)
I still wanted a talking 2 year old. It would've been such a fantastic jarring contrast to the grounded feeling of the adaptation.
Would have been a sight to behold for sure lol
I loved part 1. I was dissapointed with part 2. I felt Paul's character arch was rushed. He definitely needed more time to cook
Personally disagree but fair enough
I agree. He doesnt want to go south because of the universally genocide and then the Fremen in the north get bombed and he suddenly wants to go south. I never felt Pauls motivation and he seemed to have no obscures at all to overcome
I felt that Paul wad frozen with decisions ahead of him. He decided to go south after listening to the voices in the sand telling him to go south
I can see that. Due to the shorter time frame of the movie this was okay in my book
I think my biggest criticism of the movie is how shields are handled. I loved how they started in part one in the fight between paul and gurney, but it feels like the fight choreography very quickly ignored that the "slow blade penetrates the shield". I'd be fine if they just did away with the slow blade and said things like bullets are too fast while standard hand to hand is just fine since air still needs to pass through, but as it is it feels very arbitrary as to when it works or not.
Moreover, I think most people I talked to didn't understand why they didn't use shields against lasers. There's a scene in the book where duncan uses a shield as a trap against sardaukar gunships who were happily lazing fremen on the ground; I think a quick shot of that in the first movie instead of Liet Kynes' big grandiose death would have served the movie better, and Kynes should have died in a boring, lonely, unceremonious way by the harshness of the planet he/she wanted to save.
There's also the artillery part. In the book the baron uses it to cause a cave in against atreides holdouts instead of fighting them hand to hand, which is a display of his thinking outside the box since artillery is outdated. In the movie they use it to destroy sietch tabr and force paul to act and go south. But the movie version just begs the question as to why they weren't doing that in the first place, Raubahn clearly knows where it is after his failed attack so why did he sit on his hands until Feyd showed up?
These are just nitpicks and I love the movies as they are, but I feel like these were strange choices to go with.
Agreed, but I get why they didn't go all in with space warfare lore in the movies
Wow
How many times did you have to read the books/watch the films for an analysis this deep?
Very great vid
Keep up the good work!
Dune part 1 and 2 has enthralled me in this universe
Glad to hear it! Give the books a shot as well, they are amazing
I mean is pretty clear but dune 3 will be the moment who will really see the horrible consequence
And I personally cannot wait :)
Of course he's the villain. What do people expect? They're all villains. The Duniverse is full of evil villains. It's def not all sunshine and rainbows
Interesting take... Have you read the books?
It's not Kyne who introdude the idea of terraformation to Fremen, it's actually Kyne father. He's father was almost killed by the fremen but his obsession for possible terraformation convince them it was possible. He married a fremen and their child is the actual Kyne we know of. He was educated has a planetary ecologist by his father who transfert him the plan of terraformation
Otherwise, good video
That’s true, but the Kynes of the book also had a lot of Fremen respect because he got closer to putting the plan into motion than his father.
Good point, thank you for the clarification!
The dangers of sheep think. You nailed it, I have a few examples that people alive today can relate to…
1) Socialism is good
2) DEI is good
3) The vax is safe and effective
4) CBDC is good
5) The government cares about you
6) Open borders are good
LOL You just wrote a list of your own group think... how ironic
@@PeachesandCream225 😂😂😂😂 I don’t belong to the group called “sheep”, do you?
nah they did a crazy good job wtf r u sayin
Indeed they did: D
Did u watch the video?
@eatnut yeah I was just being dum
I have enjoyed all versions of Dune: the Villeneuve films, the miniseries, and even the Lynch version. All highlight some parts of the book while leaving out others, but that's always how it is with adaptations.
I also enjoyed all of them for what they are
Havent seen the movies, relaxing voice tho, smash
It's impossible until it is done
words of wisdom mate
THE SLEEPER MUST AWAKEN
Would have loved to see Adam Sandler play Paul
interesting choice lol, maybe adult Paul?
dune shoulda been done like Babylon 5. that was an excellent series. the film "critters" dealt with concept of sandworms in a much better way
The real question is: Does the end justify the means?
I've read the books several times down the years and to this day can't honestly answer that question when it comes to The Golden Path. In order to actually make that judgment we would need to be prescient ourselves, which we're not, so we can only use our very limited human perception to make our analysis, and even then Paul's Jihad isn't so obviously evil. For all the film's positives, this lack of ambiguity is the film's greatest failure, as it hamfists in Villeneuve's personal perspective instead of allowing individual interpretation.
Dont know if he is but he definetely will be
Hollywood provides good and bad guys, because that’s what the movie consuming public wants. None of this has squat to do with what Frank Herbert wrote. At this point, I might venture a guess as to the number of people who’ve seen some film version and have also read the book. If I said 5%, I think I’d be incredibly optimistic. I read Dune not long after its publication in 1965, and have in my own imagination a version of the Dune universe. Obviously, none of the film efforts match up to that. But to me, it’s all about enabling my suspension of disbelief, at least lasting long enough to get me out of the theater. I will say nothing of the TV miniseries; the less said the better. Lynch version works pretty well for me in that regard. The Villeneuve effort is now two episodes down, teetering on the brink of becoming a soap opera that happens to be set in 10,191 AG.
Give the 1984 Dune a watch yourself. Along with the 2000 series if you are able to.
I have, and enjoy them for what they are :)
If you think about it Jessica Paul's mother is the villain. Her decision to defy her sisterhood and have a male child is what caused all this to happen. Jessica choosing to have Paul leads to 61 billion people dying.
I think it’s futile to try and identify “heroes” and “villains” in a work as complex and nuanced as Dune. This ain’t Star Wars
@@tim_is_random I was just basically quoting the book. Still trying to figure out why you even said this ain't Star wars it was completely irrelevant to say.
@@crashoverride23 You didn’t quote the book at all 🤷🏼♂️
@@tim_is_random oh so now you are an expert in all dune. I doubt it. I copied and pasted genius
@@crashoverride23 Literally nothing you wrote was text from the book
the stabbing of rabban and his uncle were completely meaningless to me. for a start it was too quick and unsatisfying, secondly i was not aware of what rabban did to gurney in the first place (apart from liquidating the atreides of course) it was all forgettable
Gurney tells Chani what Rabban did, though. Maybe you left to take a leak during that part?
@@stephengrant4841 thats my point, we didnt see it, its all so quick and meaningless. youre supposed to show not tell, its a film not a description of one
@@natmanprime4295 You understand all films have exposition like that, yeah? A flashback would be unnecessary for a character like Gurney amidst a movie that's long enough already.
@@stephengrant4841 of course theres such a thing as exposition. im just stating the facts there was no emotional impact. look just because the director tried his best to cram it all in, that doesnt mean i have to call it a masterpiece. i give him a B for effort, i'd give him an A but he left out bits in accordance with his politics
Very nice video sir. Are you Hungarian by any chance? (Your accent)
Im from space bro, i thought it was obvious
Attack on Titan's Iseyama should read Dune
Visually stunning, excellent acting (especially Austin Butler's Feyd... WOW!), but I still came away a bit disappointed. Just one fan's opinion, but Denis took too many liberties with the plot. He made Chani's arc very different than the book, and the Baron's means of death was not satisfying (and different vs. book). The Feyd vs. Paul fight was, while exciting, also not very satisfying at the end.
i agree 100% with the comments @18:25 . they were NOT "grug brains" as you disdainfully suggest with your little meme. its the lack of exposition that MADE it boring, yes no one wants to be lectured but they need to know / care about whats happening
It's one thing to say "I think more exposition was needed for the audience to be able to understand the plot/care about the characters" and a very different thing to say "didn't like, too many names to remember" or "kinda boring ngl". I oversimplify, of course, but I think my summery is still pretty good. The dumb, witless wording of those comments begs for a grug brain meme imo.
@@BorbalaHorvath-km8qo dont think so. they didnt say it like that. youve changed their wording, and then complained about the wording!
besides, the meaning is the same, its not a "very different thing". youre just being a snob, just like the OP. and, hypocritically, you've misspelled "summary". that wasnt a typo, or laziness ( as in my case). that was poor education.
Boy oh boy, I can see this is very important to you, so I will just back down now my dude. I'm not about to defend my education or the autocorrect on my phone after having been looking up summery dresses. : D
@@natmanprime4295sorry, forgot to tag you before😉
@@BorbalaHorvath-km8qo i dont like people being unfairly maligned, esp. for points i agree with. ok it was autocorrect, i give you that lol enjoy your summery life
Nice. Slow down, relax, it’s ok to be a 25 minute video, or split it into two parts.
Appreciate the feedback, will try going way slower in my next video, coming this week :)
*He's the villain? COLOR ME BAD THEN!*
*Chani failed to understand and accept the truth instead just used Paul for her lust.*
You can have the full story just gotta sit down n read the book no need to worry its all there just read the book so the adaptations.are fine but nothing better than the books they r the original by the original creator
Yea but like sometimes we would like to watch something to see how other directors and writers imagined the story, but to adapt something into a different form of media is tricky so I think thisnis still relevant, eventhough, you are still right - we can just sit and read the whole story
@@fruzsinajkb exactly this!!
Do the spice organic you cowards! We all know why it wasn't done, but im waiting for someone to have the balls to actually bring that to film lol.
I think there are certain websites for that... : D
Definitely not the hero, but maybe not the villain either. Paul saw all possible paths for humanity as a whole. Almost all ended in the destruction of our species. The path that offered the possibility of survival was the one he picked, called the “Golden Path” . The golden path included all the subjugation and slaughter that came with it. It included the almost 4 thousand year rule of his son the tyrant worm God. (If you want to know why, in detail, go read and find out). Paul was the reluctant hero/villain who did awful things to save humanity as a whole. He is a study in the ends justifying the means.
Dune 2 Is not a Masterpiece. For me it Sucked.... The Ending was Crap. Rushed and INfodumps, mixed with Dumb Actions from the Charaters and Cringe Moments.
SILENCE!
@@bitcoinbloom how Dare you use the voice on me hahaha
@@bitcoinbloom😂😂
The fact is it takes 5 minutes to write a paragraph in a novel.
That 5 minutes of exposition in a book needs to be translated visually with pacing and acting and cinematography and music and etc etc.
The medium of reading a book and watching a film cannot even be compared. A book you choose to commit to, read it every now and then; in bed, on the couch, on holiday. A book you can choose to work around your day.
A film be it at home or in cinemas IS your day. "Wanna go to the cinema?" "We're going to watch a movie tonight." It's what you build your day around.
A film is an event, a book is a passtime.
What bugs me with the way Paul struggles with his future and humanity's fate is that in real life superheroes don't exist. All knowing, prescient benevolent dictators or even just leaders don't exist. No-one knows for a fact that the path they tread is good for the "common man". By saying that Paul has this knowledge it negates the message of the dangers of religious/other leaders. Since any and all evils that befall humanity due to Paul's actions are, by definition, for the greater good.
I get you, but I'm not the one saying Paul has this knowledge, it was Herbert himself. However the concept of the Golden Path was better explained and more prominent in the sequels, so a part of what I claim in the video is based on later works that would be considered spoilers for the movie enjoyers, which I didn't want with this video. I think the vagueness of the concept in the first novel is what drives home the message hard, and I wouldn't say it negates the message as when the Golden Path is further revealed in the sequels it has arguably even harsher ramifications than Paul's Holy War. Paul's actions are for the greater good, it's just up to us to judge his decisions morally. IMO it is a grey area and far from him being a straight up villain, which made me want to make this video after reading opinions online for weeks:)
@@SpaceCrowProductions sorry, wasn't implying you were the one saying it. Just that the story is undermined by having the medium of your message have an actual legitimate reason for being a dick.
People with the faculty of prescience does exist. I'm sorry if you didn't know.
@@raffrondeau3523 can you get in touch with one of them and get tomorrows lottery winning numbers?
The new Jarassic park
interesting comparison... how though?
Last 5 minutes ruined the movie
I think Frank Hebert never really understood what a superhero even was considering his distaste of it. I understand the cautionary tale of a Chosen One figure, but I also feel like other series did it better.
I'd be interested in which series you mean, any recommendations?
One thing that is worth mentioning, is that between parts 1 and 2, Denis Villeneuve had almost 6 hours of screentime to tell the story, witch is more then the miniseries. Even with all this time, there is far less world building and character development than the miniseries or the Lynch movie. No need to butcher the characters as much as he did. Of the 3, is by far the most disappointing in my opinion.
I get where you're coming from. My perspective is that I didn't feel the need for that aspect so much as I got it from the books and watched the movie with the given knowledge coming from Herbert's work. I found the lack of exposition and the ambiguity fresh
@@SpaceCrowProductions I'm glad you enjoyed It. But to me these movies missed everything that makes Dune so special and relevant.
the movie is sterile and bland with okay vfx 3 of 10
first movie was okay 6 of 10
it rushed through the plot points, it felt rushed but looked great. that, a masterpiece does not make. cut out spicers guild completely. romance was awkward and rushed. i actually forgot about house atriedes "liquidation", i was unmoved because of the rushing. the wonderful cinematography was not imbued with any MEANING, i didnt care about any of the characters
I can’t get behind this new Paul. I know the old Dune was ridiculous, but I always liked that portrayal. I know he’s not young enough, but he seemed more otherworldly and less brooding. It’s nearly impossible to get all this right. I like the movie. It’s fun, but I’m honestly undecided how I view it.
Bro doubled down
This is a hill I'm willing to die on - no matter how many time people say "with characters with deep and complex motiviations", it does not make it more true. The characters in the dune universe (talking about the books here) are usually fairly simple and often redundant. Yet, obviously, fans keep stating things about the franchise that, no matter how hard I look, is nowhere to be found. *Particularly* when it comes to Frank Herbert's level of expertise when it comes to character development. It's actually borderline hilarious often.
Also, when it comes to the "moral of the story" - this is what I find most atrocious. Frank Herbert, seems to have engaged in a *lot* of retconning of his own work when he speaks about the moral of the story/stories in interviews, decades later. It isn't until much later after release that this whole notion of "be wary of charismatic leaders" is brought into the picture - and never intentionally in the material, often as a description afterwards.
When viewed through *this* lens, I find the books even worse, but I attribute it to Herbert, wanting the story to mean more after the fact.
At 7:50 he says "some things just translate better on the page" - and this is what I mean. We often clearly can deconstruct visual media and say "well that character was stupid, or he behaved oddly or non-sensical or she did something no one would ever do" etc - however, in books, people (including me) seem to be less critical. We allow for 2 year olds doing ninja moves on the battle field when it of course, is bad writing.
I think this has to do with the fact that most people aren't visual thinkers. They don't allow themselves to visually imagine things, because once you can visualize it you can really tell if it's good writing or bad writing as it isn't "just words". Doing this to Dune, is what kind of made me feel it wasn't as great work as I had once thought it was.
"still impossible to adapt....."
As we're two successful movies deep.
Whateva noob.
>never heard of clickbait titles
You're here dude. He got you good
@@DelysiaSatine
This cannot be
My destiny
Financial success and quality are two very different things. Assassins Creed games, for instance, sell very well despite being ass. Same with Call of Duty.
Most things need to be bland and watered down to achieve the mass appeal required for massive financial success.
@@eddiedead2702
Good point.
You can have a successful adaptation the general audience likes while omitting scenes and key themes of the adapted work. The average person just wants entertainment, they don’t want to think.
I just wanted to see some space guild navigators man
Same, I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed with the lack of space fish in the movie.