Adrien Agreste: A Case Of Extreme Character Assassination
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Yes I know, the fandom constantly talks about how hard done by Adrien Agreste has been throughout the shows run, but hold on, because this is a fresh perspective! Because I’ve been analysing this show for years now and have to run through so many recent plot threads, I hadn’t realised how much the shows dynamics had changed and my past memory for how characters behaved was essentially wiped away. So much so, that when I was going through season 1 for retrospective reviews I actually mention several times that it feels as though these characters are behaving “weird”. Until I came to the tragic realisation that no, actually, this is the reason the show and the characters were popular in the first place, and that the tables were turned so significantly that I got whiplash and had completely forgotten. So here’s a video to how hard by Adrien Agreste was. I’m sure you’re not tired of them. Enjoy.
Honestly at this point the writers just act like adrien is just another random supporting character and not one of the main characters who’s name is in the title of the show 💀
What do you mean he's ken. (according to astruc)
I also was so mad, the only hope I got left, is that they did it to make a whole dramatic storyline with Lila threatning to tell Adrien/or tells Adrien and than there is a character moment.
Ikr, like my boy was pushed aside like in the movie he got to find out who his father was 😭 and then Adrien is stuck thinking his father his a “hero” like the justice is not fair.
Please don't forget that in that recent interview they point blank said "Adrien isn't a hero on the same level as Marinette". It's not just us speculating. It is the show creators says it to our face.
@@nkohler5601 but in the show they been saying they were "equal" and everything and even made an episode about that! Why would they say that in the interview omggg
I hate how it went from “cat noir is as important as ladybug” to “you are a sidekick but you’re my favorite”
That’s why I’m always like 😶😶 when Ladybug tells him he’s her favorite and he’s important because he never gets treated that way so it doesn’t mean anything.
and not even her favorite now XD since Alya knows her secret and so
@@rinowichan well he was never her favorite; she just didn’t have any choice but to work with him since he was chosen to work with her. Rena Rouge has always been her “real” partner.
@@dandellieonss that was season 4 but even though it was not good to see the whole point of season 4 was to push cat noir so she would more confident and careless and she made a mistake and it came a huge cost so while she is rebuilding her relationship with cat noir it is at the cost of losing all the miraculouses
@@dandellieonssI disagree he is her favorite hero like no joke she views Rena aka alya as her bff but in her super hero form it’s cat noir for sure she panics when he leaves her or when he sacrifices his life for her to win she thinks of him as one of her most dearest friends close to alya unlike alya she hasn’t been there for mari since the beginning like cat noir like she has been but not for ladybug yk what I mean she drops everything when it comes to him she apologizes for hurting his feelings and the only reason that changed is because of her trauma due to chat blanc or cat blanc like she trusts him she just can’t get too close with him because she doesn’t want to see the end of the world and see herself in dust but trust me she still values him as much as alya if not more
Thomas Astruc went from "Chloe didn't have a redemption arc, y'all just imagined it," to "Adrien was never a main character, y'all just imagined it".
Exactly. It's literally so disrespectful. 😮💨😞
Bro has a PHD in gaslighting his "fans" (I say fans in quotes cuz I don't think there's many ppl out who still actually defend him)
Literally so disrespectful why even put him in the title if he isn't a main character😑
Whatever you do, you do NOT kick your audience.
Adrien Agreste is not a main character. He's Ken. You know. This guy from Barbie. That's ridiculous. Uterrly ridiculous.
Golden boy was shafted, getting less and less relevant even when the main villain is his dad
@@njivwathomassilavwe2056 Sadly, he may have been even worse if he was given as much screentime as Marinette. As Chat Noir, he's shown to be clingy and petty, and as Adrien he's pretty much perfect at everything he does. He'd either be flawless or flawed with no acknowledgement of said flaws.
@@OpticalSorcerer I would agruee that. I think if he got more heroric acts, without Ladybug, where he has to be serious would be better. And imagen when the whole getting closer thing with Gabe would have started in season 4 because he saw that his son is not okay...
@@lisacipher3398 i disagree on no ladybug but he does need more heroic acts by himself
Adrien isn't a character. He's a MacGuffin. A reason for the plot to happen without any real impact on the plot itself.
Like the holy grail to king Arthur or the philosopher stone in the first Harry Potter.
@@Owell_Owl I just meant missions without Ladybug that he sometimes leads a small group of superheros
Both Chloé and Adrian are victims of Character Assassination in this show.
real bro omfgg i cannot believe that they decided a literal terrorist could get a redemption but not a 14 year old girl on the wrong path?? makes no sense to me.
Don't forget Luka too
And Kagami could've been done better
@hunterrousseau3770 Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
And Kagami they did her character dirty. Kagami would've never trust someone like Lila or believe her lies.
I can‘t believe that Adrien/CN was left out of the final battle against the main villain, HIS FATHER! Wtf?
You would think that Adrien would want to help Nathalie/Mayura.
I have read better fanfics than that finale 😂
This kinda reminds me of the owl house and how Hunter wasn't there for the final battle against belos even tho they were kind of family I mean belos literally made him
A fraudulent finale made by Thomas ASStruck.
@@ultimatedisneycruiselinefa5112yep!
Very simple reason why we all like Adrian so much: we've read fanfics and realized how much potential the PROFESSIONAL writers wasted. Actual teenagers can make minor adjustments to the story and his character and bang! He's an awesome character with lots of depths and interesting story lines. The problem: Marinette immediately turns boring if Adrien's potential is fully utilized. And the writers can't have that.
Honestly in a situation where Adrien is written decently to well, to keep our other protag interesting we need an honest to the gods, Marinette snap. If Adrien is a calmer individual who’s a bit cheeky and sassy at times then by like a season in to Marinette being the guardian (so your used to what she normally acts like and there’s a reason for it) have her go off.
Maybe not as ladybug, but as Marinette. It doesn’t and shouldn’t be a villain arc, just her going “Alright, screw it, none of you even give me a thank you? (Referring to the whole Lila deal, people like Adrien, Alya, and Nino would actually be good friends here) then you don’t *deserve* my help.” (I imagine she’s written here as an overly helpful, kind, type of person and viewed as a dog in a way, pushed around and used for favors). The next day after whenever she has this apifany, she goes off on Chloe, attempts and mostly succeeds on Lila, and probably goes after Kim too. For the rest of the series Marinette *takes nothing* unless it’s actually justified. Someone tries to f-k around and find out? Well they’re certainly gonna find out.
Though around people who’ve shown they respect her (Adrien, Alya, Nino, Juleka, Rose, Nath, etc) get normal, optimistic Marinette. It’s not like she thinks people can’t improve either, but she is very hesitant around them and quick to excuse people who’ve hurt her or her friends before (a character flaw, quick to jump the first impression gun. Perhaps have this apply to Ladybug too, maybe aggravating an Akuma?). Lila and Chloe are somewhat shakey around Marinette now because they know *she’s right* and some of the class will believe her. Some won’t of course.
And an easy way to make Ladybug and Chat balanced at this point? Either have her share guardian ship with him after she realizes “I can’t do this on my own” or, instead of revealing herself to Alya, reveal herself to Chat. Would these probably wrap the show up way faster? Yeah, probably. But I think either way would be more satisfying than what we’re getting.
Adrien going “Yay I have to take care of half the kwamis now…” and so there is actually stakes if either get compromised, wether by an Akuma, Amok, or Hawk himself. Or, you have Adrien going “Oh no, that’s my classmate.” And probably realizing also how *screwed up* it is that you gave miraculous to like, 14 year olds??? Seriously why do we *never* address how messed up that is???
Sorry I went on a rant there, but yeah if Adrien stays a well written character, we’ve gotta change up Marinette and Ladybug. And again the easiest way to do that is make them two side of the same coin. If Adrien calmer but as a hint of sass I want Marinette to be out of pocket as hell and calls everyone out. It’s the meme of “I can’t say that,” “But I can.”
This is so true. Back when I actually watched this show, I always loved the fanfics way more because they weren't bound by the idea that they couldn't do anything too big because they needed room for 50 more seasons like the show is
I don't think saving Adrien's character makes Marinette boring. I think she also suffers from 1 dimensional writing. She showed more emotional range but at the end of the day, in a show that doesn't even air in order, her development (if any) is pretty much always shallow and meaningless. And her whole non-ladybug persona boils down to the same tired trope of her being a klutz and a lovesick mess with some occasional heroism. Neither of them feel real right now, so ofc developing Adrien and leaving her behind would make her pretty underwhelming
Agreed until you mentioned Marinette. I’ve read so many great stories that manage to flesh out both of them equally.
@@hyukleberry5567 her development isn't shallow and meaningless she learned how to talk to adrien because of development she is able to unfiy all the miraclous she is now friends with kagami actually asked for help doesn't have a obbesion with adrien anymore etc
Poor chat noir 😭 He literally was the most interesting and well written character (in my perspective) into him getting nerfed
No, like he was my favorite character (also, idc, Cat Noir and Adrien are 2 completely different people), kinda the one reason I watched because he made other characters better, too.
I can literally write a whole essay on how infuriating it is that Adrien was once an important character and was thrown to be just a pawn
Drop the essay
@@gur3478 If you're serious, then it'd take me a while to do it xD
@@tainamichelle2683do it
@@tainamichelle2683we can wait
@@tainamichelle2683did you do it
At one point in season 4 I felt that the show should be called "miraculous, tales of ladybug and RENArouge 🦊🐞
Ikr he wasn’t even in the final
@@Johnnyboyz-ps7js cause of cat blunc
Tales of Ladybug & Company 😅
Two the worst female characters. I hate Marinette and Alya. Actually they should be not even called female. They are not female at all.
Season 4 was the point of no return for me where I now hate Alya's character with a passion. Because it didn't REALLY feel like Marinette and her shared a deep connection at all. She began to feel more 2 dimensional to me. And at the same time, together, those two managed to become most entitled people!
Chat Noir being neglected by Ladybug could have been a really good plot.
Marinette projects onto Chat noir what SHE wants - less responsibilities and more free time to be a normal girl - but since she never bothered to learn who the guy behind the mask really is, she doesn't realize what he wants is the exact opposite. This leads Chat Noir to feel like he's being pushed out of the team, especially with all the heroes Ladybug "rents" regardless if he's available or not, and you get a nice set up for a downfall between the two.
Couple that with the Chat Blanc plot, where Marinette believes what she is doing will keep him happy and way from akumatization, not realizing she's pushing him further and further into becoming the Woobie Destroyer of Worlds, and you have a pretty intense season finale when Hawkmoth figures out their identities and akumatizes Adrien.
A competent writer would even make use of Chloe's arc (being a bully, using the Bee Miraculous for selfish reasons, being humbled, using the Bee Miraculous to save people, slowly becoming a better person, then suddenly is neglected by Ladybug and eventually kicked out of the team, makes a deal with Hawkmoth to save her parents when ladybug can't by giving herself as Queen Wasp in exchange, then Ladybug chastises Chloe for willingly turning into evil without trying to understand why she did it, leading to Chloe turning against Ladybug) to have Chloe come to undo Chat Noir's akumatization by comforting him the same way she comforted Adrien when his mother passed away, showing their friendship and why she's so protective of him.
That would make Marinette realize all of her decisions were mistakes, that she needs to understand and trust others, and that carrying the weight of the world by herself will only make herself crumble and take everyone she knows and loves with her to destruction. Because Marinette's worst trait (that the narrative never acknowledges to be a bad trait) is her necessity to control everything surrounding her, especially after she became the Guardian. It is her way or the highway, and she's not telling anyone (Chat Noir) what she's thinking because that would mean someone else having the ability to make informed decisions without her control!
I think this would lead to a neat season finale where she reveals her identity to Chloe and Adrien and the three of them work together to stop Hawkmoth and Mayura.
There, all major plots convey into one leading to the end of the Hawkmoth saga, giving every character Astruc neglected their time in the spotlight.
@@TwilightWolf032 the whole season 4 as much as it hurts too see was to push cat noir away from her and they supposed to keep identities a secret
10/10 would watch
thank you for being so detailed, this is now my canon belief
thank you for being so detailed, this is now my canon belief
@@isa-belva y did u type same thing twice
I also hate how opposed and bitchy astruc was to fan theories about the sentis, only to have them turn out true; he was just salty how people saw through the plot so far in advance..
Frankly, he should have taken it as a compliment. Foreshadowing is not an easy thing to do and if the more clever of the audience are picking up on the hints, you've done it right! Getting salty over people seeing the clues you put into your work is ridiculous.
I think he just added it last minute after seeing the popular theories.
There were no hints throughout the show, only in s5 💀.
@@sparkyblue7016season 4/5*
but yeah I’ve seen people saying that “oh he’s allergic to feathers that was foreshadowing” like ?????
He made it more obvious so he can blame himself instead of being so salt about it😂😂😂
Adrien feels like a plot device more than a character. A device that Marinette's life revolves around. I know one of the central premises of the show is the will-they/won't they between them. But it feels like any progress is erased so we can repeat the same song and dance.
That’s so true
Adrian is even more of a Plot Device when you remember that he is a Senti Monster 😅
A lot of characters feel like plot devices in the show, there to be what the plot demands of them rather than consistent characters.
her life doesn't revolve around she is has a unhealthy crush on him she is sweet kind outgoing friendly creative wants to be a fashion desginer implusive absent minded hot headed she wants to be control of every situation she has more to her then just adrien
Adrian / Cat noir: Has 1 good episode that’s just focused on him
The writers: NAH DON’T LET HIM COOK
The fandom: 💀
which ep
@evelinramosmiranda619 passion where they had to swap miraculous again
@@evelinramosmiranda619 Chat Blanc...
tbh he's never really had an episode, the closest is probably chat blanc because the story is partly centered around him... but that's about it
@aDia-21 passion where they swapped miraculous. Most in not all of the ep was from his pov. He was even the one to take charge and lead the 2 of them while ladybug played support for once
Due to his dad's abuse, Adrien never realized when to recognize toxic behavior: he overlooked Marinette's behavior and Ladybug's flaws (not to mention kept coming onto her when she wasn't interested), told Chloe on more than one occassion that she had to change or they wouldn't be friends anymore (which I counted as emotional blackmail, given how it was done), and was gaslit by everyone into thinking his dad was just overprotective.
Staying with Cloe even after all her bad actions would have been more toxic. But I guess that bad behavior is ok when it came from your favorite character
@@eleonorepb4565 Nope. He should've just stopped being friends with her instead of saying "do this or we won't be friends anymore." Plus it was inconsistent; he said it once, and doesn't bring it up again until much later, when she's already been pretty mean but he's only concerned with the stuff for the episode.
Yup. I think Season 6 onward needs to tackle that and push Adrien to really grow.
@@ajstudios9210 I'd honestly prefer a full-on reboot (WITHOUT Astruc) rather than trying to salvage what we have.
And that's why I hate Adrien.
Pissed me off in kuro neko when plagg and every other character said that Adrien was sad because ladybug didn’t love him or pay attention to him which yeah, ladybug not paying attention him is a reason but he’s also very clearly upset that he’s being replaced as a superhero, and that’s just never brought up in the episode so I think the writers legit think they made something that they didn’t. They just made something way lamer just to keep up the love square
Exactly! I felt annoyed when Plagg said the only reason why Adrien didn't want time off was because he loved Ladybug. Like, NO! It's like Plagg wasn't paying attention to how upset Adrien was when Ladybug said they don't really need Cat Noir that much. Adrien literally got his miraculous the same day Marinette got hers. It was originally the two of them against the world. And when it came to season 4, Ladybug was slowly relying on the other heroes more and more. Even though Adrien was also in the wrong for giving up his miraculous so suddenly, Ladybug never once apologized to him for making him feel less important and for hurting his feelings. Even when she snapped at him in the NYC special, she never apologized to him there either. Adrien/Cat Noir deserves justice!
I have NEVER seen a character (who is being treated as a “side” character) be given a very STRONG connection to the CENTRAL plot by being:
- the SON of the MAIN VILLAIN
- ONE of the two MAIN superheroes and supposed EQUAL partner of the other with a shared mission to defeat villains
- whose existence is the REASON why Hawk Moth turned into a super villain
- LOVE INTEREST of the female protagonist
- the FOSTER CHILD of Nathalie, COUSIN of Felix, and SON of Emilie-who all used the peacock miraculous.
ONLY FOR THE WRITERS TO NOT PAY OFF EVERYTHING THEY’VE SET UP!
With all the things given to Adrien/Cat Noir, he was NEVER supposed to be just a deuteragonist or a side character. But because of the writers’ misconstrued idea of feminism, all the male characters including him had to be dumbed down to highlight the qualities of the female characters.
Making Cat Noir and Ladybug actual EQUALS was a missed opportunity to actually deliver the actual message of feminism to young children. It would’ve been so much better if they were able to teach kids that BOTH men and women can work together and be strong in different ways.
exactly!! i've never understood why ladybug and cat noir had this huge power imbalance even though their miraculouses were supposed to be equal, and why its only ladybug who gets to hand out all the miraculouses and meet with the guardian, while cat noir can't even know the identities of the other holders!
Which is why we like fan fics vetter who aren't like Ladybug best chat noir side lines.
NO, ITS LADYBUG AND CHAT NOIR MAINNNN!!! AND EQUAL!!!!
atp we should just make a reboot of this show.
@@dandellieonss as the second protagonist of a duo Adrien was shafted hard. Heck Luigi from the Mario and Luigi games has more characterization than Adrien.
Yeah, except any form of feminism after the first wave (which was WWII and even that had problems like Dear John letters, look it up if you don't know) was utter shit, just got worse and will continue to get worse.
I don't know how the hell this show is supposed to last 7 more seasons.
This is what Ive been saying
I said it before and I'll do it again: What was the point of making Hawk Moth Adrien's dad if there was no payoff during Hawk Moth's downfall? Thomas gave into hate and ruined his own ideas.
He gave into his hatred for his own characters popularity. What a writer…
The problem, of course, is the stupid cat blanc/ephemeral bullshit that is basically the writers saying “he can never know while hawkmoth is still alive because he will instantly get akumatized because fuck you”
@@charltm What about being able to change fate instead of thinking history is set in stone? That kind of philosophy? Maybe?
Adrien Agreste has always been my favorite character so it really hurt to see him get reducted to this
Hey ik this is not related to you comment. But I saw your pfp and name so I had to comment
real
I believe what people like about Adrien isn't the way his character is written but how it could have been written.
He's got so much potential!
No, that is Chloe.
It speaks volume when he's still the most interesting and popular character in the entire show when he's done dirty at every possible chance. Like they could never make us hate him!
Agree. The power he holds is too strong lol. Imagine being massacred like that and still manages to be the most interesting and popular character of the show. Not even bad writing can make us hate him.
Maybe Thats why they done him soo dirty
Because otherwise he would completely ofuscated Marinette completely
@@Jpx0999 yes. Astruc hates it when other characters aside from Marinette become popular or when the other characters seem to be more loved and favored by fans than her.
There was a time Astruc’s close friend (who was the inspiration for Marc’s design) told Astruc that his favorite character is Nathaniel and that he’s kind of popular among the fans despite being a side character. Astruc said, “I don’t understand why people like Nathaniel because I find him a very empty character.” Then, he created Marc to be Nathaniel’s boyfriend, so the fans would shut up about Nathaniel and stop bothering him about giving him character development and screentime.
I believe Chloe’s character assassination also had to do with her starting to grow popularity when her redemption arc got hinted, since her character was meant to be hated and not the other way around.
That's what I love they've tried everything to assassinate his characters and he still ended up being the most interesting and popular character. Thomas need to realize he doesn't have to assassinate a character just to make Mari seem more interesting. The more they do that is the more Mari looks like a Mary Sue.
@@dandellieonss He really did that? Thinking that giving a cute boyfriend to a popular character will somehow make his fans shut their mouth?^^' I think that'd only make them talk about him even more! XD
But that explains why he got even less screentime despite his cool design and potential. What a petty man...
Making a show for girls that shows girls being strong isn't an excuse to shaft male characters. Its so disingenuous when writers say they want girl power, but can only provide it by making the guys so pathetic that the girls instantly look better than them.
It would be more impactful if they KEPT Adrien as a strong fighter. That way, if he lost against an opponent, it would actually make the opponent look strong, and therefore nake Marinette's ability to find a way to win more impressive.
But instead.. we just get lousy writing
exactly!! like idk what thomas's idea of feminism is but its not right.. feminism is equality, not making women superior. it just pisses me off so bad that they made him into this helpless little damsel in distress when he is supposed to be equal to her.
Back around season 3 i came up with a saying to summarize the show. "Marinette is a character for the show to develop. Adrien is a tool for the show to use." And it feels more accurate then ever.
One of my most hated moments of Cat Noir disrespect was him losing to Scarabella.
Or even when he attacked her, because how and why ADRIEN COULD THINK ABOUT ATTACKING HER WITHOUT HAVING ANY CLUES
@@hypersonic2.060 Ladybug didn't tell him about the replacement. He thought she was akumatized or something. Plus, if I remember clearly, he was mad because obviously, Ladybug kept stuff from him and he couldn't believe Marinette had someone she trusted enough to share her identity and even give the miraculous to.
Exactly he had a lot more experience. You can't tell me Alya is better than him while using a miraculous for the first time because she got the fox miraculous 2 times before. Her defeating him isn't even a possibility
@@Idontreallyknow2345 For real. If you ask Thomas, he'll repeat the whole nonsense about the show being targeted at little girls. I'm certain that a good fraction of the audience is male and that half of the people who watch this show aren't little 😂. I know it's a girl power TV show but that doesn't mean you should make a clumsy dork of the only significant male character. This guy is literally a sentimonster designed to be the perfect kid. He does fencing training, plays basketball and is generally fit and agile. Let it reflect in his superhero form. Makes little sense for ladybug to be stronger or more skilled than him not to mention Scarabella.
@@tobbyman3d You're right it doesn't make that Marinette someone who's extremely clumsy is a better hero than Adrien who does fencing, other activities, is academically smart and also the fact that he is the one who got closest to ever figuring out Ladybug's identity(Kwamibuster). He is not dumb that's just how the show likes to portray him. For example during Reflect doll I think he is competent enough to be Misterbug.
I agree with everything you said. He was screwed since season 2 or 3 when the former guardian barely talked to him
exactly!! i've never understood why ladybug and cat noir had this huge power imbalance even though their miraculouses were supposed to be equal, and why its only ladybug who gets to hand out all the miraculouses and meet with the guardian, while cat noir can't even know the identities of the other holders!
He is one of the only fighter in superhero team before kagami. Why does he lose that much. Real hate to directors of the show for ruining his arc.
Honestly keeps making me wonder what was the point in giving him one of the most important powers as well as being a “main character” if they hardly ever treated him as one. Even anything he’s been a side kick.
Poor dude got shoved out of his own show. It’s a Ladybug/Marinette show, but it should’ve also been a Cat Noir/Adrien show too for the rest of the seasons past like Season 2.
I’ll never ever. EVER! Forgive the show writers for doing Adrien dirty! Especially Thomas asstruc! Fuck all the people who did Adrien dirty! I’ll never forgive them!
Agreed. Astruc is one hell of a fraud!
Agreed! Asstruck is a hack
@@jonelrobinson7432 Facts!
Astruc couldn't stand how popular he was getting and was afraid that he might surpass his precious Marinette in terms of popularity so he had to do it. Same goes for why he screwed over Chloe so bad.
He's always the one who's ruining the show the most smh
Sadly astruc mentioned that Adrien is the Ken to Marinette's barbie, just a trophy guy.
I was surprised Felix didn't break his cousin and the woman Felix himself LOVED out of the place. I mean he could have made a sentimonster with multiple abilities like to find them.
I Hate how astrat sees him as the trophy guy that's literally stupid writing
He was so good in Seasons 1 and 2. Then he got annoying. But thing is, Cat Noir WAS considered an equal earlier on in the start of the show, until the executives decided otherwise.
Another thing I find irritating is that some people are saying that Cat Noir is not Ladybug's equal because he doesn't really use his power as much anymore and that his power is seemingly useless
@@tainamichelle2683 dang those people 🤦♀️🤦🤦♂️
@@tainamichelle2683 his powers seems useless to them because its only meant to destroy things. Mind you LB can deakumatize akumas and the feathers (wtv they're called), she has miraculous LB, now she can give ppl charms that can prevent them from getting akumatize and Lucky charm meanwhile CN only has one power. Which is unfair cuz if both miraculous are equal chatnoir should at least have a few sub powers or be able to deakumatize akumas.
@@Dred0n seriously, it is so unfair that Cat Noir only has one power while Ladybug has 3 different powers. What makes it worse is that they deem that Cat Noir and Ladybug are equals. It is just awful that Cat Noir seems insignificant to Ladybug. I'm glad that he finally got a power upgrade. I just hope he'll eventually become more important
@@tainamichelle2683 Wait he got a power upgrade? Since when? In the new season or is it him have unlimited cataclysms?
He could’ve been such an interesting main character, but I doubt he would’ve been well exploited, a bit like Marinette, whose potential was wasted.
I think not at it's best is a better way to say it
Adrien should’ve been the main character, his life is a lot more interesting than Marinette’s and his dad is the main villain for crying out loud. They can still make ladybug the leader, but he should’ve been the MC.
Or
If Thomas REALLY wanted this to be a girl show, why not make Cat Noir a girl? You could replace him with Zoe or a new character.
Idk I think mari’s life is way more interesting because when it comes up to Adrien he has his life on a schedule while mari is random which I like about characters sure but literally you know you could have made her character still interesting and still not be a stalker yk but if you want her to stay as a stalker at least have her take responsibility for her actions most of the times she gets away with stuff that idk how she does I like her character I have always liked smart characters but it’s creepy and cringe they way they did mari people don’t like her because of something you thought was cute come on like switching in between characters POV would be much better because I also like Adrien’s character but no they only want mari to be the main character it’s stupid bad writing and forced too.
Idk I think mari’s life is way more interesting because when it comes up to Adrien he has his life on a schedule while mari is random which I like about characters sure but literally you know you could have made her character still interesting and still not be a stalker yk but if you want her to stay as a stalker at least have her take responsibility for her actions most of the times she gets away with stuff that idk how she does I like her character I have always liked smart characters but it’s creepy and cringe they way they did mari people don’t like her because of something you thought was cute come on like switching in between characters POV would be much better because I also like Adrien’s character but no they only want mari to be the main character it’s stupid bad writing and forced too.
Idk if replacing him is a good idea though are you talking about replacing it from the start because I don’t think I would have enjoyed it part of the fun is seeing there is equity between characters but guess what that is almost never shown
I heard he didn't wanted to include adrien but he've been kind of forced by his pro partner
EXACTLY
You know what? Maybe there’s a reason why the writers decided to make him a senti-being. They saw the fan theories on that and decided to run with it just to trash him more. Feel free to to disagree with me but that’s my theory on that.
Also, at this point, just call the show “Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug” instead of also adding “and Cat Noir” if the writers really hate him that much.
I'd say that can be true just by the fact their "hints" about it being true suddeny became so on the nose even Dora The Explorer is more subtle.
Still not an excuse to turn him into a side character. He could have still been a duo protagonist even with him being a senti-being.
@@usonohoshi6165 Oh trust me….I’m sure many of us don’t want Adrien to be shoved to the side, but…..you know how the writer team is, especially Astruc.
@@sailorwinxknighTronic837 yeah. People got suspicious that they might have some weird vendetta with blondes.
Honestly, makes so much sense they just see whatever cool ideas/theories fans have and spit out a passionless and bland version of it - look no further than Chat Blanc (it wasn't very good, at least, in my opinion). MLB truly is a fascinating fandom, where the fan creations carry the show so hard.
Ladybug hiding secrets from Adrien such as about his father being a villain and about himself and Felix being sentimonsters sounds like a build up to a major conflict in season 6. Maybe after the identity reveal and finding out about the truth of himself and his father, there would be an Adrienette breakup happening.
The leaked S5 bible states that "Adrien will never learn the truth about his father," thus I doubt it. From a writing standpoint, it does not make sense that it should not be used for future conflicts, but this is Miraculous we are talking about.
Though, I’m still hopeful that it is actually a build up to a major conflict. But if something does not benefit Marinette, they most likely won’t bother.
@@dandellieonss Even if it did build up to something, considering the trend, it's most likely Adrien will be painted as "overreacting" and then HE apologizes to Marinette.
@@dandellieonssThe leaked s5 bible also says Emilie revived and that ended up not happening, so let's hope they actually go forward with the conflict idea and give adrien development and the catharsis we all need. I refuse to believe professional writers would spend so much time setting this all up for nothing. There is literally no pay off 😭 then again, it's mlb, we shouldn't really have hope
Also, let's not forget they got lila on revelation getting all the pictures of the rings, emilie, etc and she didn't use it in s5. They have been building something, the thing is it will never be as satisfacing as adrien being in the final fight would have been!
@@dandellieonssYou know that logically Ladybug will tell Chat Noir what really happened in the season 5 finale. Unless she still doesn't respect or trust him as her partner, making the season 4 finale a waste of time.
The fact that Adrien not only had a most interesting storyline (this boy who's forced by his cold dad to show a face to the world that's not true and puts a lot of pressure on his arms, but can actually open himself a bit with his alter ego, the superhero who literally has the power to destroy the world in his hand and is fighting his own dad without knowing it.), but has the whole plot of the story moving around him while he's completely oblivious (HIS dad became the villain HE'S superhero persona is fighting, to save HIS mom, who became sick to bringing HIM to life) show's how much Thomas was willing to throw his whole story to the trash can in order to make his favorite OC look better.
He even seemed to be more worried about making the others characters (Like Adrien and Chloe) look bad that he didn't even tried to actually build Marinettes character in something relatable, she's a total creep who stalks her crush all time, to the point she will break into his house while he's not there to smell his pillows and lay on his bed, she has this colleague who's in love with her and she takes advantage of it to humilliate him on every chance he has (the kite scene was horrible and wasn't even her lower point), but somehow everybody loves her, everything she does is right, the things that are not right (like Stalking Adrien) are totally justified... it's frustrating.
Thomas said channels don't want Adrien as a main character and that they were upset with the episode of Lies, when Adrien is one of the few characters moving the story
How can Channels be opinionated on a character as long as it doesn't show any immoral content ?
Girl boss loving execs who hate straight men, what else is new 😂
Yeah, i call bull on that. This dude blamed the fans for not seeing certain episodes the way he sees it and blocked them, blaming the channels isn't far off from things he'd do
@@dasnet6846 How's this even possible? I call cap. The man just gets mad that the audience doesn't agree with his writing or interpretation of things and then he blames either them for being haters who don't understand or just anyone else for being at fault
@@tobbyman3d Exactly! The man can’t take criticism for his life
Ok but why didn’t Mari/ladybug not tell chat noir that Gabriel was monarch 😭 like she doesn’t know that he’s Adrian, he missed out on the battle at least feed him that info 💀
The only reason she didn’t tell him is so they can set up the plot of season 6 and that we will want to keep watching. If season 5 was the final season, im sure she would’ve told him
Nope cuz she wanted to "protect him". BS why would you want to protect adrien from a man that emotionally abused him? Nobody around is real Felix, Kagami, his aunt, Alya, Mari, and Natalie all know and nobody told him. I hope wtv they have in store Adrien realize that the ppl around him are fake.
@@Dred0n We don’t even know the reason why he wasn’t told this? I’ve also had this theory that perhaps Adrien didn’t want to know…maybe he begged Ladybug to take the memory away. My point is, we don’t know so we can only wait and see. And then hiding a secret doesn’t make them fake.
i just hate Adrien didn't even get to defeat his father in the episode before the finale. his classmates without any powers had to do it for him and the aftermath locked him out of the final battle. the ultimate loss, if you ask me
It was seriously irritating when Adrien just succumbed to the alliance ring because of his nightmare, meanwhile Marinette, who was also affected didn't let that stop her
This would honestly not be a problem if both powers were necessary to clean up everything in the end. Like he destroys the rubble and Marinettes power uses the destroyed matter to rebuild it. He would be needed during all fights
Yeah. Ladybug is needed for both purifying akumas and fixing the damage. Their powers are *not* equal.
I will always hate that the sentimonster theory became cannon it will fuel my hate for eternity
That is why passion is my favourite episode. It is one of the only episode where cat noir was the hero. They could have also done something like this in dark blade though
What made it better was that if felt like Marinette actually took a back seat in this ep
@@darriongeorge5137Yeah
@@akshayaggarwal5148 They definitely need do this more like in Gabriel Agrestee where Marinette is only there to save the day and to be used as comic relief to prevent the episode from being too dark
The only thing that is keeping me tied to this show is that Adrien finds out the truth and gets reasonably mad.
It was also to see if CN gets a new form, but he doesnt... and yet LB gwts one. If one episode says that CN and LB are equals, im going to rage so hard.
I think he will find out at some point, but I'd be really surprised if he were angry about it. He'll probably go, "Oh, Marinette just wanted to spare my feelings".
@@everythinggirly916Exactly like season 4 where LB pushed him aside, he was mad then in the end "Its you and me LB". It made me mad when that happened. That was the right moment for Adrien to get mad.
If they wanted it to be girlpower (which is fair, some shows are geared towards girls and some towards boys) just change Marinette and Adrien around.
Marionette is now the daughter of a fashion designer and wishes to be one herself. She misses her mum and attends school for the first time where she meets Alya. Give her a miraculous and she becomes ladybug. During her civilian life she tries to reconnect with her father who brushes her off. She has a crush on the baker boy named Adrien.
She then finds out her father she looks up too and tries to copy is her greatest villain making the battle even more emotional as she kind of wants her dad to win so she can get her mum back but she knows its selfish.
The problem is alot of superpowers action shows with boy leads have competent and useful female characters. Like Gwen in ben 10 or gravity falls where both dipper and Mabel were leads and a key factor was the teamwork and relationship between the 2
Adrien is one of the strangest written characters of…well anything. Astruc describes him as “perfect”, the narrative keeps presenting him as the purrfect partner to Ladybug (e.g. Kuro Neko), he usually is presented as having the moral high ground (Antibug, Malediktator), and is used as a plot device for Marinette to do…..well, anything. And yet they keep sidelining him, having him get defeated in fights, he gets little development, and they present him as incompetent. It feels like he’s simultaneously the most and least important character
Astruc said Adrien is “perfect,” but Cat Noir isn’t. Did he miss the part that Adrien is Cat Noir?
@@dandellieonssmaybe he is couting the fact theyre personalities are sligthly diferent while in costume
Honestly he is very underrated in the writers eyes I mean he wasn’t even in the finale and guess what Ayla was going to get the cat miraculous in the finale in the original script
Seriously, if Adrien/Cat Noir is nothing more than just a side character in the creator's eyes, then why have his name in the title? If it's just gonna be all about Marinette/Ladybug, then the title should just be Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug
The Only Way i could SEE that working would be having Adrien fail to stand Still through Akuma attacks and try to help even whitout his Powers
Could’ve sworn Adrien used to be more rebellious… but ever since the writers decided to go along with the senti storyline (S4-5), they just made Gabe all the more oppressive of him and then use the rings to reason how he’s completely and utterly unable to defy Gabe.
Literally most of their interactions in later seasons be like:
“Adrien I am your father and I’m telling you to- “
And any voice of defiance gets instantly shut down. We have Adrien being all depressed or panicking 😰😔 whilst the camera gives more hints of mind control
Honestly I originally found the concept of the senti theory (way before it was confirmed) to be really intriguing but now that it’s actually happened… I feel like it stripped away some of Adrien’s character and personality… like bruh having watched some of those S1-2 episodes retrospectively, he wasn’t always like this.
There were occasional moments where Adrien actually voiced his desires and even go against the wishes of his dad. And whilst Gabe was emotionally neglecting and abusing him, he was presented as much less cruel overall (e.g. their shared piano scene from Captain Hardrock or in Gorizilla when he seemed genuinely concerned and scared about the idea of Adrien being Chat, whereas in Ephemeral… I began to doubt whether Gabe still cared cuz when he found out he pretty much uses Adrien to his pursuit with no hesitance)
But anyway, it was clear the writers wanted to prominently portray the sentimonster lore on screen so Adrien becomes a punching bag for Gabe and his whole vibe and especially his relationship dynamic with Gabe changed, not dramatically but subtly over time as you said, culminating in the S5 final episodes (starting from Pretension I believe
It really shows that what the studio executive said in the interview was right, Adrien isn't a main character and should never be the main focus of any episode." Honestly, Adrien just feels like he's just man candy for Marinette to stalk and thirst over, along with Chloe and Lila, as well as being a stepping stool so Ladybug can win the day as Cat Noir. Sometimes, I feel like Adrian didn't even need to exist if this is how they want to run the show. At least that way, he doesn't just feel like a prize for Marinette to win in the end. Now that I'm thinking about it, both characters kinda play into their animal counterparts in terms of symbols of luck. Marinette has the ladybug, which is a symbol of good luck, and Adrien has the black cat, which is a symbol of bad luck. And because of that, it's reflected in their portrayal by the writers. Marinette gets good luck as in she always wins, her plans never fail, and she beats any villain in her path. Adrien, on the other hand, has bad luck as in he's weak-willed, completely useless, and is just there as a damsel in distress/prize for Marinette
Adrian was and still is my favorite character of anything ever. I identified so much with him at the beginning. The parents, wanting to make them proud but also struggling with your own wants. It was great. Then he kept being pushed aside. Then the supposed (yes I'm using supposed because everything was pretty vague in terms of Adrian's conception while Felix's is very clear. Felix is a senti, Adrian still may or may not be one) feather thing. And by the end of it all he was a shadow of his former self. A quote from Astruc struck me then, what he stated about Chloe. Some people are just meant to be evil (or something like that). So according to him, or I guess the fandom in general, believes that nobody could be manipulated unless they were a senti Monster? That hurt. That hurt a lot. Gabriel is a terrible parent and Adrian deserves better than the writers give him credit for. Boy shows have better female written sidekicks than Adrian to Marinette. Gee,
Same
Adrian should have been the main character, or...... At least EQUAL to ladybug. The whole reason i like him more then ladybug is bc of that, he deserves better! 😩
Nah him as the main character is too dark for a show for 8 to 10 year olds
@@Owell_Owl.... is it tho? I mean there are darker shows
@@akeelahbruce1821 have you checked the target audience for those shows
@Owell_Owl um yeah-
Does Teen Titians, Batman (sorry, I can't remember the exact name, just knows it starts with Batman) Powerpuff girls and Gravity Falls count?
@@akeelahbruce1821 they have similar target audienece even though the tone of Miraculous has changed
If they can't be bothered with making Adrien the main character, why not give his life to Marinette? Dad as the villain trying to revive the mom? That's main character plot. And i don't see how it would be any different tbh
Agree. Adrien has been given all the drama and stuff a main character should have, only for him to get reduced as a love interest. Truly a wasted potential.
So basically, Adrien has become exactly like his mother - motivation, a trophy, just kind of there.
Tom doesn't look as intimidating as Gabriel
At this point,it can be safely said that Adrien's relevance as a character has been reduced to him being more of a show prop than even being a character at all.
It actually makes more sense now why the show now usually gets mentioned as *MIRACULOUS* or *MIRACULOUS LADYBUG* but not much as *MIRACULOUS: TALES OF LADYBUG AND CHAT NOIR* , because Chat Noir isn't even respected as deuteragonist anymore.
In the earliest seasons of the show, it did show that it was the tales of Ladybug AND Chat Noir as Adrien was treated at an equal level to Marinette to some degree.
However, later on, his character and development just seemed to regress and regress to the point that if you try describe his place in the show, here are the few things that dominate;
1. Ladybug's sidekick
2. Marinette's love interest.
3. The sheltered, helpless, damsel in distress son of Hawkmoth.
4. The now show prop
The last one is my personal addition because he really has been reduced to being more of a show prop.
Also, there's this thing they never fail to do to Adrien where whenever he experiences a life lesson or character growth one minute and by the next episode, it's like that lesson never existed, and he just back to being this helpless sheltered boy who, even after being in school for months, can't make a single independent decision for himself without someone else doing it for him, and when he does get the courage to stand up for himself, it just takes on command and he's a submissive kitten again.
Plus, the fact that he was the main villain's son which plays a key role in the final confrontation against said villain but he's sideline because "He can't handle the truth", well you know what I say to that....... NONSENSE!!!!!!!
The situations in EPHEMERAL and CHAT BLANC had been resolved and Adrien has matured over the years otherwise he would still be running on a timer in his Chat Noir self while Ladybug is only one with no timer. So to say that Adrien wouldn't be able to handle the truth is like saying that the boy has learned NOTHING in his time as a student and as Chat Noir.
In fact, the Miraculous Movie portrayed the final confrontation between Gabriel and Adrien beautifully and Adrie handled the truth fine, so why can't he be allowed to face the truth in the show.
The truth will be hard, yes, but, he has the support of Marinette, Plagg, Nathalie, Nino, Luka, Kagami, Felix(probably), Alya and all his friends to help him cope through it to the best of their abilities, so he's not going to be alone.
Also, how is it he has been a hero as long as Ladybug yet the temporary heroes, Alya as Scarabella and Zoe as Kitty Noire seem to outdo him in capability, competency and skill in a short period of time like he is just not taking anything seriously.
Honestly, if they were so convinced that Adrien wouldn't take things well, then why didn't they just make him the next Arc's villain instead of Lila but Lila could be his "Mayura" but she's the one manipulating him.
Like say that, while Adrien is grieving his father's "sacrifice", Lila comes to him exposing that Gabriel was Hawkmoth and makes him think that Ladybug "murdered" his father. To add insult to injury, she says Marinette knew which both true and false since Marinette as Ladybug did know what happened but since Adrien doesn't know about the Ladybug thing then it wouldn't be that believable right?
However, Adrien knows that Ladybug trusted Marinette as *Multimouse* so she would trust Marinette to some degree which would make Adrien believe she does know and is somewhat complicit in Gabriel's death.
Blinded by grief and betrayal, Adrien believes this lie and wants to work with Lila who offers the butterfly miraculous.
Plagg tries to warn Adrien against it but he doesn't listen, so out of desperation, Plagg takes the black cat ring and flees before Adrien can command him to stay.
Plagg gets to Marinette and says that Chat Noir has been severely compromised by the new holder of the butterfly miraculous and at the same time she receives a call from Adrien saying that she has betrayed him and is now his enemy. Before the call ends, Marinette hears Lila in the background which tells her that Lila has said something to Adrien but before she can act Adrien in his butterfly villain form sends an akumatised Lila to project his message to Paris, thus making his debut as the new villain.
Now this would make sense of Alya being Marinette's partner as it's now Marinette vs Adrien and with Lila, the fox mistress of deception and lies, being the antithesis to Alya, the fox heroine of illusion and truth, then it would make sense to be an Alya vs Lila situation than Lila going after Marinette which didn't make much sense before.
Damn now this could potentially revive the show
Regarding the title, I think it’s too long; hence most just refer to it as Miraculous Ladybug.
I believe that learning the truth will be the catalyst for his massive character growth. He needs to learn that he is a sentimonster; then and only then he will be able to achieve personal agency. Even if he learn lessons and matures from experiences and life events, all those will just be useless as long as he fails to protect the rings that can be used to control him. Furthermore, he will only grow once people dear to him decide to tell him the truth, only then he will be able to decide what to feel and think about the truth and his father, instead of others deciding that for him by making him happy over lies, depriving him of the right to decide for himself.
Withholding the truth from him because of Cat Blanc and Ephemeral is NONSENSE, I agree. Ladybug is not helping him by keeping the truth from him, he must be informed about it so he could start managing his emotions to not cause disaster. If he’d be told that he could cause danger, he’d try his very best to not let that happen. Ladybug can also create magical charms to protect him from being akumatized. There’s no reason for him to not know things about HIS life, only bad writing.
Adrien is basically reduced to the trophy husband to Marinette😢😢
He is the real hero of this story for me. nothing can change this fact. He is my favorite
honestly, season 5 Adrien feels like the damage to his character is being reversed until they just throw it out the window.
Agree. Adrien was given more screentime and spotlight as Cat Noir throughout the season that I thought he was already getting treated better… until the finale came.
Look how they massacred my boi they went from Miraculous tales of ladybug and cat noir to Miraculous Tales of ladybug and rena rouge to Miraculous Tales of ladybug's adventures LOOK HOW THEY MASSACRED MY BOY😢😢😢😢😢
@@bukolamomodu9426 that was more in season 4 and the whole point of season 4 was to push him away
@@Owell_Owl true but like
It's hard to say who got the worse character assassination between Chloe and Adrien. At least in Chloe's case, she actually got to do something and didn't get her thematic relevance stolen by her stalker. Which yes, Marinette is a stalker. Trauma doesn't excuse that.
Adrien and Chloe deserve to be part of a better show like Amphibia, Gravity Falls, Infinity Train, Mob Psycho 100, Futurama, Final Space or BoJack Horseman.
Marinette deserves jail, she's a total psycho
Marinette has a serious problem I can't believe they tried to excuse that
It would have been better if Adrien fought his dad in the last battle. It could have been sweet, Gabriel and Adrien reveal themselves together as Gabriel dies. They have a moment of reconciliation and maybe have Gabriel say he was always proud of his son no matter what. Maybe even give Adrien guilt for the fact he killed his father in the next season.
I agree, maybe in a similar way to the movie?
Could be like representation where cat noir and Gabriel were fighting and arguing at the same time except they both know the others identity and adrian has both miraculous
I agree that Adrien/CN was absolutely butchered toward the end of the show, and in major arcs and story lines. But one thing I find weird is that in the episode Kuro Neko (When Adrien turns into a different cat noir), he was a lot smarter when it came to battle experience. He was a lot more knowledgable and was willing to go forward and ahead of Ladybug in the situation. He was so much more competent than he usually was, but all he needed was a change in personality. So this means that Adrien was capable of being equal in terms of battle knowledge with Ladybug but he just chooses not to? I'm confused. Also, he was so polite and was not a creep like he usually was. That means he just chooses to do that, too.
It’s not Adrien who chooses to seem useless and incompetent, it’s Astruc. They only give him the spotlight when it’s convenient for them.
I think his character was assassinated is because Thomas is trying to compete with Precure or Pretty Cure for their world record back in 2018 with Precure All Stars Memories for having the most Magical warriors on screen in an anime film and that they are the longest running magical girl franchise(Don’t Start With Wonderful because their the start of the second generation I recommend starting with the first generation of Precure from Futari Wa Precure to Hirogaru Sky Precure) and they are up to 80+ characters so I think that Thomas is really trying to compete with Precure for how many magical heroes he has.
I remember when the show first came out back in 2016, and like many others I fell in love with the series because it combined so many elements of differing genres so well, but also mainly for Adrien! As a 9 year old girl at the time, I had never seen a male protagonist in a superhero show who was portrayed to be a genuinely wonderful, kind and an overall good guy as they had Adrien. I loved how they made the boy a hopeless romantic for once, how despite everything he had went through he was still thoughtful to those around him, how they had him be vulnerable and actually show his emotions. But over the years, seeing how the writers blatantly disregard him for the argument of "well its a girl power show and so the boys need to be pushed to the side to elevate the girls", which completely goes against the ENTIRE POINT OF FEMINISM IN THE FIRST PLACE, but that's a conversation for another time. I don't know, it just kinda broke my heart a little bit. HOWEVER this is exactly why the movie is so important, they made a point on emphasizing throughout the ENTIRE film that he and Marinette are in fact equals, and though Ladybug is the overall main character, Adrien isn't going anywhere and I appreciated that so so much! So personally, I think I'll be following the movies from now on cause the gave our boy the justice he deserved.
I watched Miraculous Ladybug because I liked Chat Noir. So the way the writers treated him, made me very upset.
Same. I don’t think I’d watch S6 anymore considering how they treated him in 5 seasons. I’d forever be bitter about it.
@@dandellieonss , At this point I only watch the show because its like watching a massive train wreck that is still going on somehow.
@@33pandagamerI wish I could do that lol. The mistreatment to Adrichat feels like a personal attack to me and I really can’t stand it. Maybe I’d try to watch the first few episodes and decide if I’d continue or not. But I already lost all the hope I had left that they’d give justice to his character, since they already had 8 years for that and we got nothing.
The season 5 finale really pissed me off.
It felt so wrong that I don't think he can recover from how much of a chump he was in the final episode.
Thanks for mentioning how Creep arc. I feel like that felt even more obvious at the time to me partly because I had to deal with a guy who wouldn't take no for an answer when I was Marinette's age but also because it was happening at the same time that Luka was really shining as the epitome of "I like you enough to want you to be happy, even if that means being happy with someone else" to make Adrien look even worse by comparison
There was even an entire arc of Cat Noir being upset about Ladybug uniting EVERY hero she gave a miraculous to only for Adrien to find out on the news or afterwards about the battle.
If you ask me, I'd be infuriated too. Especially hearing her say "you weren't even needed haha, love you see you!"
Adrien has a lot more potential as the protagonist than marinette. As the son of the main villain, the twist of his identity would hit a thousand times harder if we focused on Adrien's perspective. And when the coward of Astruc realized that, he made his character less relevant
They changed everyone. Not only Adrien and Chloe's characters got butchered. Nathalie was not always the "empathetic good guy." And I know you made a video talking about her. But I honestly believe she was meant to be more of a Dismissive Avoidant attachment type character. It was clear by the way she was reluctant to be emotionally close with Adrien.
I got bored somewhere around season 3 and dropped the show, so hearing about all this is bizarre. Adrien finding out his dad is a supervillain is possibly the most compelling thing to come from this premise. Really disappointing that they don't seem to be doing anything with it.
My boi Chat Noir was done dirty. I mean he does all the work and freaking Labybug gets all the credit, while he gets shoved the side. He wasn't even allowed to fight his own abusive dad and discover his identity, which he deserves! He's an interesting character and got shafted in favoritism of freaking Mari Sue. The show is called,'Tales of Ladybug AND CHAT NOIR' I'd prefer the Scarlett Lady AU Adrien, he has more of a 'F*ck you, Dad' personality and Marinette isn't a creep and she actually backs him up as Chat Noir in this AU. Heck, in the Scarlett Lady AU, it's ADRIEN whose training under Master Fu to be the next Guardian.
Adrien doesn’t do all the work when they are fighting villains.
@@josratubangura he still does a ridiculous amount and gets pushed to the side while everyone fawns over ladybug. i mean he literally sacrifices himself for her on the daily so they can win but no one gives a damn 😭
Marinette is not a Mary sue but Adrian needs to used more and be able to fight by himself
@@makayla8783 That’s true but the idea that he does all the work is false
@@Owell_Owl exactly. I’m so tired of Mari antis claiming she’s a Mary Sue but when she shows negative traits/flaws, she the worst protagonist in history
Adrien/cat noir really deserves to be the main character alongside with marinette/ladybug in this show
Being equal
I really hated how he never learned the truth about his father. Would it have hurt him? Sure. But that's life, and he deserved to know. (Also, his mother came back to life, so aren't there gonna be questions about that? Isn't he gonna find out anyway? Just kidding, I know the characters have selective critical thinking skills.) Also, the _world_ deserved to know the truth about Alliance. Gabriel is just a memory, now, but Tsurugi is still alive and free to continue being an unscrupulous businessperson, and she now has the world's trust because they think she's a hero. (Also, everybody ignored the fact that the rich middle schooler who took over the mayor's office in the _country's capital_ (which seems kinda important?) was able to do so with the help of police robots that literally had the Alliance logo on them. ?!) Would it be too much to hope for, that Ladybug would tell Chat Noir the truth, at least? Surely she wouldn't see a need to lie to her partner, too... haha oh no she's probably not gonna tell him
I also hate that while Marinette gave him the rings and told him he was free to be who he wanted and whatever, they never told him about what he actually was. He doesn't know he's not truly human. He doesn't know that, if someone were to steal his rings, he would be at their complete and utter mercy. He _needs to know these things._ But they're taking away his agency on every level.
TL;DR I hate how all this information has been withheld from Adrien, and that Marinette is lying, not just to him, but to the entire world about Monarch, because even if she has good intentions, these falsehoods and omissions are most definitely going to hurt people more than the truth would.
Definitely. This was straight up flanderization. Yet another example of the writers pushing some kind of agenda against a blonde-haired rich kid with an abusive parent. If I had a nickel for every time... Well, you know. :/
Imagine if ladybug tells cat noir Gabriel was monarch he might keep it to himself or get akumatized
How could he get akumatized monarch is dead
@@KingLamorissiere Because Lila now has the butterfly miraculous
What pissed me off was that Astruc went on Twitter and said POINT BLANK that Adrien is NOT a sentimonster -
when S5 dropped and ended, Astruc 🎶Why the f*ck you lyin'?~ Why you always lyin'?~ Mmmoh my God - stop your f*ckin' lyin'!~ Always lyin' to us - you lyin' SO much~ You're makin' it hard for me~🎵
no, he didn't say that. why do you lie?
I agree with you Adrien should be treated a lot better in the show now just like he was in season one.
Yeah I miss the old chat noir. They know what they were doing because everytime chat noir was left out, he’d react. He didn’t like it 😢
Especially the way he reacted in the episode Strike Back. He looked so defeated when Ladybug was praising Felix (I don't know how to spell his alter ego name). And when she told everybody to recharge and regroup, he just stood there looking very sad. My heart breaks for him whenever he feels like he isn't important anymore. Another thing that makes me angry is what happened in the Heroes Day special. When it seemed that Ladybug was akumatized and had finished Cat Noir, people only showed shock about what happened to Ladybug, NOT Cat Noir! It just made me so angry that no one showed concern that "Cat Noir" was no more. I swear, Cat Noir needs to be shown more appreciation. At least he has a majority of the fandom to show him some love and appreciate.
Nothing pisses me off more than when Marinette gave ALYA the Ladybug Miraculous in her absence in stead of, oh idk, her PARTNER WHO'S ALREADY USED IT BEFORE?????? How come Marinette gets to use both Miraculous but not Adrien??
Like damn Marinette I didn't know you had such little faith in the ONE GUY who's literally been by your side since DAY ONE 🙄
Because it would dangereous to possess both at same time unless nesscerary like in the season 5 finale
season five should be Chatnoir stepping up to be on a somewhat equal level with Ladybug but instead, they say "Naw you're the SIDEKICK so move aside and let the true hero do her thing." It should have been when Adrien became a man but instead reverted to a child.
Well he was known to be more of a dimwit in distress that show Ladybug always had to save at times before then (or anyone else when she was absent before)
the problem with thomas is that his idea of equality involves dumbing down every male character to make the women look better and stronger by comparison.
it sends an awful message though, that being a woman can't be competent unless the men surrounding her are incompetent.
If they really wanted to advocate for feminism, they should have stuck with making them equals (as they were marketed) and taught kids that men and women can work together and be strong in different ways.
real like idk what thomas's idea of feminism is but its not right.. feminism is equality, not making women superior. it just pisses me off so bad that they made him into this helpless little damsel in distress when he is supposed to be equal to her.
They hate Adrien so much that they even made his doppelganger have a better storyline than him 😅
His character has so much potential that’s being underdeveloped due to the writers’s incapacity to actually commit to other characters because of the idea that it would “make Marinette look weak” when if you do your job well that SHOULDN’T even be an issue 😭
I like Chat Noir (and other people too I think) because of the potential he had and still has. I blame the writers for his decline and most of all for the fight in the season 5 finale. How can you not include him in that?! It's still beyond me
I like the movie CN much better.
I hope we see that version and the Claw Noir turned Paw Noir versions interacting and comforting him too after fighting him in his split Cat Blanc personality too first
Its sad marinette is never called out for her obsession with adrian since most times it causes the end of the world. She uses her miraculous to sneak into his room to leave the gift in cat blanc, he sees her, figures out the secret and never tolde her his identity or that he knew hers. He only transformed so she wouldn't get akumatized. Meanwhile, in ephemeral, she goes back on her plan for luka to use second chamce and goes gaga over finding out he's cat noir then reveals her identity. Shes very hypocritical when it comes to the role as guardian as she told felix when she though he was adrian to much information compared to the others
We call this wasted character potential and character assassination. And Adrien isn’t the only victim here. Chloe, Kim and a few others. Astruc has no idea what flaws and development mean to have a character grow and it shows. Plus the fact he constantly bullshits or retracts things makes his characters and story have less identity and never gives them any real arcs. It’s abysmal.
They truly did him dirty. Adrien has so much complexity built into his roles as a civilian and as a hero. Throughout all of Season 4, I noticed and was annoyed by just how little he was on screen. He was always in the background, even in his more important parts. Sure, he was on stage, but he didn't have the same presence that Marinette or Alya had.
I'd actually predicted pretty early into the season that they were going to completely nerf him in the final confrontation based purely on how they were portraying him in the first half of season 5. I knew it was coming, so I was prepared to see it mentally. Didn't make it any less infuriating. In fact, they actively made it worse.
That power dynamic between Ladybug and Cat Noir? That might have been mostly resolved in the story, but they chose to insert yet another, more unhealthy, power dynamic between Marinette and Adrien. Adrien doesn't know the truth of his origin, the reality of who his parents were, or even the person his new primary caregiver really is. All he is served is the lies a dying man begged for. He is made into one of the crowd with the level of knowledge he is allowed. Yet his girlfriend knows all of these truths and will not say a word. This is a truly abhorrent dynamic. I'm not entirely sure I can trust the writers to treat it as it needs to be treated either. We'll see what they do in season 6, I suppose.
@@pamspray5254 the whole point of season 4 was pushing him away
@Owell_Owl Framing does a lot.
Anyone who's watched it since the beginning KNOWS that the series marketed the show with a DUO protagonist. Aka, story wise, Mari and Adrien were EQUALLY important to the plot.
THIS is what made Miraculous so unique. Usually duo protagonists are the same gender because of who their target market is. So it's uncommon to have a show with a duo protagonist being one of each.
It feels more open with the show being for anyone.
But the moment they CHOSE to make Mari their ONLY protagonist. (On top of MANY of her issues as a character) Trying their BEST to make us forget Adrien was also the protag.
I ask anyone who likes this change... How is this ANY different from other maho shoujo series? And the more you look back, the less special miraculous becomes because of ths choice.
Even the system with the miraculous being allowed to be use by other people? Done and dusted by a much older series.
I thought you were going to talk about the interview recently where they said they don’t think Adrien is a main character. It’s depressing. Adrien is my favorite but they keep literally killing his character.
That interview made me completely lose all the hope I had left for Adrichat. He has all that it takes to be a main character, so I’m really disappointed with how they butchered his character through the seasons.
But the writers said that the executives didn’t consider him as a main character [in the same level] as Marinette, so maybe he is, she’s just on a much higher level.
But he never really got treated like one-despite being a titular character, being the character with the strongest connection to the central arc, being one of the two most important superheroes, and the story revolving around his and Marinette’s journey as superheroes and their lovestory.
@@dandellieonss it’s so lame cuz his name is actually _in_ the official title of the show. The Miraculous Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir. But like…oh yeah…our titular co-main character definitely isn’t “as main of a character” (if at all) to Ladybug…
I used to love him and watched the show because of him!! 😭 They have done him dirty and I can't forgive them...!!!
I felt so compelled to him because he was adapting to school, starting to have friends and trying to chose a path for himself. I rooted for him and hoped his family dynamic would improve over time as he became more... But he has been reduced to almost nothing even in his own story.... I can't!!! 💔
There is not a single well written character in this show except Plagg. The only reason people watch it is because the concept is cool and the Fanfiction is actually amazing.
Change my mind.
Marinette being the one who confronts Gabriel and everything would be like, if in star wars, Vader told Han Solo everything and then died without ever talking to Luke. Like if in Invincible, Eve discovered Omni-Man's true nature and fought him instead of Mark. The whole point of the villain being the hero's parent, is the relationship it leads to.
I agree with you VEHEMENTLY. It’s why I’m rewriting starting at Kuro Neko, making cat Walker an akumatized Adrien not just a fancy new chat noir. And leading into him getting some backbone and standing on his own and becoming the guardian, defeating gabe, and living on his own with Luka as his apprentice
I really wish they would have the balls to make Adrien a villain.
Yes, i agree i was so mad that they massacred my boy, if that's not character assassination i don't know what is
What pisses me off is they dunk the male lead to uplift the female lead which is so a totally uncool idea to be pushing
If they wanted a strong female lead with a goofy partner they could go with it without dumbing down anyone
Like, imagine Marinette becoming a leader, honing her skills and thus maybe losing some of that softness and optimism, due to carrying the burden of her responsibilities
And Adrien learning to be an actual person, finding his tue passion, what he likes, coming out of the carefully curated persona
That way we could see Marinette learning that maybe being everyones froend and going out of your way to please everyone (and she has that tendency) isnt the right way to do, that you have to toughen up and deal with difficult decisions, you have to sacrifice something for you can't have it all
That way we could see Adrien finding strength in his softness, learning to stay true to himself and realising he doesnt have to be perfect to be loved and accepred
We could have a power balance, but we got that
Or just watch Kim Possible.
@@mayotango1317honestly true,Kim possible actually does this dynamic justice
When I watched Season 5, there was a moment when it clicked. I went "Where is he???"
There was one episode where Cat Noir didn't make any appearance until some random moment and I was so shocked, realizing just how little meaningful screen time he's had.
Cat Noir/Adrian is the whole reasno why I watch MLB in the first place but now I can't enjoy the show because what they did to his character sure I still watch it out of Curiousity but still the show didn't need to trash his character like that especially at the end of season 5 and who knows the same might happened in season 6 and so I'm not looking forwards it anymore
it's also insane how much little he's present in the battles between the villans in later seasons
i already forgot how angry the finale made me feel, thanks for reminding me, miraculous is the epitome of wasted potential
Yeah... That character murder is why I stopped watching the show. He was done dirty. Showrunners abused my boy as bad as his dad did.
It really all boils down to this and this only: Adrien was never even a main character to begin with: all he was to Thomas Astruc was a love interest. Nothing more, nothing less. He serves no other purpose other than to be a one-dimensional love interest. So much for "Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir."
Adrien doesn’t even need to be a main character to be given character development, more importance as a holder of the equal miraculous to the ladybug miraculous, and the father-son confrontation as well as learning the truth about his family. He just needed a better writer who could pay off the plot points they’ve set up and built up for 5 seasons.
The worst part is, Adrien should still be considered a main character even if he's "nothing more than a love interest" because in a romance the love interests are the main characters. I honestly have no idea how the writers fumbled it this bad
@@Srina-liv I agree. With all the drama and stuff they gave to Adrien (having a strong connection to the miraculouses by being related to the former main villain, former and current peacock miraculous holders, being one of the two main superheroes, and his lovestory with Marinette being one of the main plots of the show), it does NOT really make sense that he’s being reduced to being a side character. He HAS ALL that it takes to be a protagonist.
They were introduced as equals and they should’ve stuck with that, especially since they wanted to advocate feminism. The show wasted its opportunity to teach young kids that both men and women can work together and be strong in their unique ways.
They should have been both protagonists of the show. Most romance literature has both female and male protagonists. The show is about his’ and Marinette’s journey as superheroes and their lovestory. He was not just a Mary Jane to a Spiderman.
But even non-protagonists should have character development and they don’t need to make everything about the main characters. Zuko was not the protagonist of ATLA, yet they didn’t make Aang confront his father on the behalf of Zuko.
@@dandellieonss You literally took the words out of my mouth omg! It's such a waste to base your romance around "You and me against the world" then going "jk it always just Ladybug vs the world". Not only does it disrespect Adrien's character and ruins the dynamic of our leads, it also cheapens the overall story they've spent years setting up because like you said he's not just some Mary jane to a spiderman