Grey Market Watches. What is the meaning? - A Seller's Perspective
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Today, we delve into the dirty topic of the Grey Market. What is this market, and what do they sell there? People make it out to be more evil than it really is. We will cut through the muck and explain to you very simply what it is, if you should buy stuff from it, and what to expect.
Let us know what you think in the comments below.
Please visit our store at: www.longisland...
Thank you for watching.
This guy is so helpful, for many years. I hope he never dies.
Marc replaced my SKX007 Sapphire Edition Super Oyster when it arrived malfunctioning out of the box. Great vendor!
Thanks Tony.
I was going to share the same story, great vendor! Replaced my watch , great service!
We love Marc!
Grey market is definitely the way to go for high end watches. Just make sure you price in the cost of your FIRST factory servicing, since you don't get the factory warranty. I once bought a grey market watch for $1800 less than MSRP (a few months later, the manufacturer raised the MSRP by $4000, so it was a really good deal). The watch ended up needing servicing, so I had to pay $650 or so to service it through the boutique store (turns out ADs that aren't the boutique can't service it anyway) which still left me well over $1000 ahead compared to buying from an AD. The factory service came with a 2-year warranty, so now I have a warranty just like if I had bought from an AD in the first place.
As long as you make sure the watch is not counterfeit, and you find out the price of factory servicing so you make sure the grey market discount is more than the servicing cost, there is little or no downside to the grey market.
Right. It's all about the dollars and what makes you feel good.
Under a grand, grey market all day, over a grand, AD only. Tha ks for the video explain this man!
Good philosophy.
jared packer what if the watch is around 1100. , and I’m gonna save $300.00 ? Pls help
spirg get it in a grey market, worth the savings
ActSciGuy22 yep !!!! I did , got a good price w a warranty 👍🏻😊 thx
@@SeaquartzwatchCo What about a Tissot Luxury Powermatic 80 that at an AD is 795 but Jomashop it is 475. What do you think?
Marc, thank you for a great, informative video. The two best points you bring up are “Buy the Seller” and “Research”. If a buyer does both, the odds of being burned go down astronomically. And as for Long Island Watch, I will buy anything with confidence. Because, I know you stand behind what you sell.-Mark
Right, but most buyer's do not take the 5 minutes to research and that's when it turns.
Marc, I agree with you wholly. And I am the opposite, I do tons of research before I add to my collection. Even if it is a new piece from an AD. It’s like the SRPC91 and SRPB57 I recently picked up from you. The SRPB57 I had been researching for over a year and the SRPC91 since Seiko announced it at Baselworld. I am extremely happy with both. And buying them from a trusted seller makes it all the better.
Great and very informative video as usual. Thank you Mark.
I agree with “buy the seller first”, whatever the goods, white or grey, a good seller will take care of any issues with little to no cost to the buyer (only shipping fees most likely). I had an issue with a Sea-Gull and Mark took care of it. Excellent customer service from LongIslandWatch.
I only partially agree with the “throwing away a $200 grey watch versus throwing away a $5,000 grey watch” example though. While repair cost may exceed the price of a new $200 grey watch so that the only option being to throw it away and buy a new one, I have never heard of a Manufacturer refusing to service an authentic grey watch. Sure, it will cost you. I had to pay $190 for a Tag (service) and $600 for a Zenith (repair) but I did not have to throw the watches away. Also the $600 repair cost was much less than the $2,800 savings of buying grey versus AD but it took 4 months to get it fixed by the LVMH service center.
I would tend to buy cheaper watches at an AD because the savings would not cover the cost of a repair or early service.
Good video. I buy an Omega list for $5000 in a store. The price from A grey market dealer for $2900. Worst case scenario the grey market dealer doesn’t honor his warranty. I send it to manufacture for service for $500-750 for a major overhaul still ahead of the game. I have original paperwork that came with it. Yes do your research.
Mark you need to carry Omega.
This... all day long.
I don't understand the fear these watch guys have. Why the need for a two year warranty security blanket if these are supposedly heirloom quality goods that will last to be passed down for a hundred generations? What are the chances that anything will go wrong in the first two years? tiny
Phafanapolis these expensive watches need to be serviced every few years. I’ve gone 10-15 without, the watch will Sooner or later need service.
NHseacoast Sure, eventually a watch movement will need to be cleaned and oiled but not until well after the warranty has expired.
Phafanapolis yes agreed at a $500-1000 “factory service” cost per watch depend upon the brand especially for an automatic movement watch.
Since grey market is closer to white, why not call it off-white?
Love it! Alabaster
Pewter? Titanium?
i like "Beige"
I had just thought the word "off-white" too.
hi , Marc my response is goose duck tainted market ! that's why i prefer to buy from Offial Dealars like your company !
love your blue Nato Strap ! happy Hollydays
I knew what grey market was but it's been still amazing to listen to your clear explanation. You are a great teacher, Marc. Thank you!
Zs
Thanks for tuning in!
How to buy and sell in grey market ? Can you please tell ?
Marc you make a ton of sense when you emphasize to buy the seller. The reality is that the grey market has become so large and liquid that the sellers that I deal with (mainly in the Seybold building in Miami) are very dependable. I have bought two rolexes and a Panerai in the grey market and the sellers all typically give me their own 1-year warranty plus when I buy and I can purchase it subject to my own inspection (which I can use a trusted professional to inspect it). So, from the point of saving a good amount of money versus purchasing retail - as long as the you trust the seller and they stand behind the watch - I say go for it and save a ton of money. Of course, the opposite occurs when trying to acquire a watch that can only be obtained after spending a considerable amount of money at a retailer and then getting on a wait list. In that case you end up paying a hefty premium versus retail. For me the equation usually tends me to still prefer the grey market to actually get the watch right away and when compared to the amount usually required to spend at a retailer...the actual premium can be considerably less.
I just received an order from Long Island Watch, 3 Seikos, a skx007j, sarb033, snke01k1, a strapcode super oyster for the 007 and 3 nato straps, everything perfect!!! I am very picky, so i inspected everything with a jeweler magnifying glass, flawless items!!!
Lightning fast delivery too.
Yes you are buying the seller along with the product, I am very happy to chose Long Island Watch.
Absolutely satisfied costumer!! looking forward to do business with you again.
Thank you Mark you are the best!!
Thanks so much!
Very well explained Sir, but I am still apprehensive how prices differs so much between gray and white markets. It is hard to believe warranty certificate alone jacks up prides so steeply..
Again, an honest, straight forward explanation without judgement. Thank you for being a real mensch.
Trying!
Hi Mark, very good video. One Remark about warranty. I bought a Omega at the "Grey"Market. I live in Europe and the seller told me that the original seller will be from Europe. Watch arrived and I have the original certificate from a AD in Italy. I live in Germany, but the warranty is for Europe. If I have a problem wich the watch: No problem, just go to an AD in Germany and I got the full warranty. So my opinion for the grey market is not loosing the warranty.
Perfect, glad it worked out.
Good to know!!! I find your Reviews n content Honest n unbiased, Thank you for sharing!!! :-)
Thanks for checking them out.
This deserves to be in the "Watch and Learn" playlist. :D
Thought about that. Didn't since it wasn't technical.
Long Island Watch still very informative though. 👍👍
Great video once again Mark! As one user said - grey market risk on the F91w lol!
The grey market is fine and really makes the horology industry move items and not become stagnant. It really comes down to the buyer and how much risk they want to take.
Thank you
Very interesting video Marc. A couple of years ago I purchased two Orient Neo 70's Panda Solar Chronograph watches via Ebay UK. The price on Ebay was £96 and both watches came boxed and with the tags and guarantee. The watches where for the Japanese market and not export models. The seller on Ebay was based in southern Ireland and the watches arrived within a week and as promised everything was boxed and had the original tags and labels with the guarantee in Japanese. They are both incredible watches and I wear them a lot, the price of each watch in Japan was labelled at 32,000 Yen so don't know much that is in UK Sterling. I think I got a good deal as I have seen one of the models on Amazon Canada with a price tag of over $300 Canadian. I assume my watches are therefore grey market watches. The seller in Ireland provided free UK delivery and there was a money back guarantee if the watch was faulty or it would be replaced with another watch.
198.27 Pound sterling. Good deal
Marc,
Great topic!
I have learned more about watches on this channel from you in the past 2 years of buying watches.
I would buy grey market for watches not available through US AD. Seiko JDM like the SARD012 is just gorgeous for the price! I also like to wear watches that not many people have or seen.
Right, and that's partly why the market even exists.
Excellent presentation Marc. Have looked at a Heure on line from various dealers and noticed a savings of 10 - 17% less that MSRP. Substantial, but Heure as well as others over seas will not honor any warranty internationally unless purchased from a "dealer Boutique" in the selling country. So in essence you end up paying $1k or more to ensure manufacture"s service. Have bought two Russian watches that needed adjustments of whatever done here in US this entailed shipping costs plus a long repair time locally, fortunately work was/is good. So most dealers, aside from Jewelry stores in US are actually grey market, sending their units, usually over seas for warranty if any, from unknown repair workers. Some what a roll of the dice!
Sometimes it worth it, sometimes it isn't.
Hi, Mark. Very instructive. The truth is that large and well know manufacturers find a way of selling their surpluses through the grey. I have already purchased Rolexes and Nikon cameras through excellent sellers in the US, but without the manufacturer's warranty. Cynical, or whatever you name it. That's life! BTW: will never buy the overpriced Rolexes in my life. Or Montblancs. Or no other product which lives only throught their marketing force.
That explanation cleared up plenty for me. I appreciate the education. Thank you.
Marc I have complete faith in you and Long Island watch. You are a stand up guy.
Since Amazon UK figured in a video of yours I just watched, the skinny on them is that Amazon UK is not a Seiko approved seller. I guess that makes the Seiko stock most likely grey items. So Amazon's warranty is what you get if buying Seiko from them. A two year warranty implied. I kinda hope I don't need to find out how that shapes up....
Speaking of buying the seller, Marc, you're a class act. I'll NEVER buy any watch that you sell from anyone else.
Much appreciated, thanks.
Really appreciate these videos as a beginner who just caught the watch bug.
Hey Marc, white gloves or we won't believe you... ;)
LOL Next time!
Another great video Marc, thank you.
You have developed a very witty viewership, just reading the comments is time well spent.
Keep up the good work, thanks again.
Thanks!
Glad to see this kind of openness. Definitely, buy the store. I have ADs I will never do business with again. I have never had an issue with gray market, since I trust that lemons are pretty rare in the major brands of Japanese and Swiss watches. Gray or AD, Ill buy from LIW as soon as I can justify ANOTHER watch purchase.
The first time I heard of ‘grey import’ was when I worked for a now defunct photographic retailer here in the uk in the mid 80’s.
We were selling Nikon cameras waaay cheaper than anyone else.
On closer inspection, when you looked in the box there was no yellow Nikon warranty paperwork.
Never had any problems.
I bought an Olympus grey camera many years ago. Documentation was in Greek.
Before buying my SeikoSKX013. I did a lot of research on sellers and prices. But really I always knew I would buy it from Long Island watches. The price is great Value let alone the peace of mind you get .Thanks Mark
*Marc
You are so Informative. Not only pertaining to watches but in general. Thank you
Thank you!
Great video Marc. Thank you for clearing it up and being honest and forthright. Thus why you are successful in this business. Great work ethic. 👍
Thanks for checking out the video.
@@islandwatch how to start this grey market watch?
I've learned more from Marc than any other source. Side note, bought a watch from Marc that had a problem and it was taken care of asap. Couldn't ask for more.
Buy the seller. Good advice. I can hardly get gray market watch sellers to answer an email or a question, and it often feels like they "hide" the fact that they are grey market. If they're that way about general stuff, how will they be about communication during some issues with a warranty? And if they ignore you long enough you'll just go get it serviced locally, which seems to be their MO, and they won't have to honor their warranty either.
Thanks for the information Marc. This subject was very confusing to me when I first started collecting watches
Glad to help make it clear.
My favorite seller that I didn't buy anything from him 😁 due to my overseas location. Thank u Marc for ur continuous valuable information.
Welcome, and thanks!
Good explanation as I was personally confused about this issue. Purchased a camera from a NYC discount dealer and later learned it "may" have been a grey market item. No issues with the camera and never needed warranty service so I won on that deal. Consider myself lucky.
Grey market is pretty kool I’ve met a lot good folks on the grey market and they are pretty honest they are just trying make a living like everybody else good video Marc..
Great info Mark. I get asked this question all the time when people are talking about shopping at Jomashop. I always reply back with "how much are you comfortable with losing if it needs service?"
The next thing I do is recommend your shop.
Keep up the great video's.
Right on, perfect!
Great info and a perfect delivery, thanks Mark!
This was a great conversation to just listen to! Thank you!
Best, IC
Thanks for checking it out!
Great video. This is precisely correct and lots of people just don't get it. Jomashop is a great example. I've had great luck with them on a couple of luxury purchases and they never gave me an issue. Other people have had issues when the watch broke and had to send it back for repair. You're rolling the dice with grey market products. I would say (in my experience at least) that you're probably ok and the only issue would be if it did fail the servicing could be an issue. Reviews indicate this too for this particular store. The 3 watches I purchased from them all ran fine and still do. They will be out of warranty when I have them serviced so nothing lost. If you don't want to take a chance simply don't use grey market dealers, it could wind up being a royal PITA even though I haven't had an issue.
You've got it right, perfect explanation.
Always wondered where the 'grey' bit came from. Thanks Marc.
Welcome Mark!
Great explanation from a seller's perspective, makes it clear what grey market is. Keep up the good work!
Thanks.
Invicta gives you a 3 year warranty on your Seiko Movement in their watches. Aragon Gives you a 1 year warranty on their Seiko movements. Great Video and Thanks for sharing.
Mark,
I’m talking myself into buying “Grey”. Looking to get a $2K discount off a Planet Ocean. I can take the discount as a gamble. If there are issues with the watch I can spend that $2K for Omega to fix. Is this logical thinking? Will Omega repair the watch? At my cost of course.
Well done Mark. You have cleared up a lot of mixed info I have gotten over the years.
Thanks Chris.
I bought a grey market Omega once, and would never do it again. The online store (a big, well known one at the time) did a hack job on the movement, grinding off the serial number leaving metal shavings everywhere inside the case. I only discovered this because the shavings started to migrate onto the dial face. I had to have a watchmaker clean up the seller's crappy hack job. Learned my lesson after that purchase and have only bought watches from ADs since then.
Thanks for the explanation Mark. It will help me put across what I’m trying to do for prospective buyers. Grey does not mean fake 👍
I think the rule of thumb on higher ticket watches is if the reduced price plus the potential cost of a service (in case there is a problem and you need to pay to have it fixed) is cheaper than buying from an AD then go for grey market. That's the way I think of it at least.
It's a good philosophy.
Im gonna risk with a Casio F-91W in the grey market 🙁
You may need to start a go fund me page, if you get ripped off...
LOL, good risk!
Long Island Watch with the metal case & brecelet😢
Larvancio Ramos lol! Classic post. Of all the watches that is definitely that one you want to think about in the grey market! 😎
Cool vid.Having had issues with QC.I only buy from recognised retailers now online or otherwise for anything more than fifty quid.Less than that I take my chance.(and a valium)!!!!!!
Thanks Mark. Great education. It's more complex than I thought.
You are welcome.
Great breakdown. Clears up a lot of questions.
Marc, you're very good at sharing info. Will get my watch from you tomorrow. Thanks.
such a good video helping consumers like myself BETTER understand what alot of these terms like greymarket mean, as so much get lost in translation, only leading to myths being formed
Trying to clear the air.
Great video Marc. So if you purchase a watch from a website and there is NOT a manufacture's warranty included, is it safe to say they would be considered a grey market seller and not an AD? That seems to be the main difference if I am understanding correctly. Awesome channel and I always look forward to everything you put up; very educational and I've learned so much from you. Thanks!
That is a correct assumption; why would you offer a store warranty if you could get a manufacturer's warranty. Bearing the cost of warranty on the store is a large chunk of change.
Another great video. I can’t wait for my Laco Paderborn to arrive.
For anyone that does not know Long Island Watch has great customer service.
Thanks Mark!
Great informative video, I mainly buy grey market
But from dealers I have researched,
The warranty issue can be tricky but I’ve found
A great watchmaker and thankfully parts are available
Grey market also
Thanks Marc!
Always learn good stuff from your content.
Best,
Scott
Thanks Scott!
One of Marc's best videos to date
Awesome info Mark. Truly appreciate your efforts to educate us all.
Thanks for watching.
One thing you failed to mention is that watches rarely need warranty repairs. I have purchased about 50 watches from various sources, including ADs, private, and grey, and only one of them ever needed a warranty repair. Another thing is that it doesn't cost thousands of dollars to fix an issue out of warranty. You'll be looking at the usual service charge from brands at most to fix that issue out of warranty.
The Costco return policy is legendary ... Nice video Mark
I have what I'm guessing is a couple of grey market watches. One is a Seiko and the other one is a Citizen. Both are automatics. I tried to look up the model numbers on Google and got no results, but I've had both watches for about ten years. The Seiko has blown me away because it gains on average 2-3 seconds a day, even after all this time! The Citizen gains about 12-15 seconds a day and each watch was worn practically on a daily basis. No warranty but no problems either. I think they were each less than $50. at a local flea market. I'm not sure if I'd go any higher than a Seiko diver if I did, but thanks for the info on those models being grey market.
A good indication with either (but not concrete) is to visit either USA site and punch in the codes and see what happens.
I finally know what grey market means. U were understating it when u said alot of people dont know what it means. More like 99.99999999%
Haha, happy to shed the light.
This is very good, honest information about the subject. Personally I would only buy divers and other watches without complications from grey market, chronographs and the like need a warranty, kind of like my less than year old Autavia that's currently being serviced....
Good method.
Another excellent video, thank you Marc!
:)
I've been researching it but still don't understand. Thanks for making a video explaining Grey market.
Marc, thank you for this very informative video. I really applaud for being upfront and honest with the seiko SKX situation. But overall, I think this video will be a great watch(pun intended) for every watch enthusiast.
Hope you don’t mind me sharing this on a facebook group.
Thanks Benny; share away. I wouldn't publish it if I didn't want it out there.
I have had a few watches grey market. They are 5 or 6 year old models but are real and run great for close to half of retail and the first time I heard grey market i did think it sounded dirty but when I get them I inspect them so thoroughly because I'm scared they are fake. No issues. Got great deals and I don't have to worry too bad about losing all the built in overhead if I resell it. Although, I am buying for keeps, hopefully.
And I believe the Citizen Signature series is for Asia markets, just like those Seikos.
This is my rule of thumb:
AD price (w/10% discount) *must be greater than* 2 × the price of service. in order for me to go grey.
For example, on a certain GM dealer, a Seamaster Pro Ceramic is 2800. It retails for 4400. ADs in person can usually be talked down 10-15% on mass inventory watches like the SMPC. Putting the price at about 3750 w/ 15% discount. You can get that serviced/repaired for at most 500 (omega charges like 445ish last time I checked for date only autos, anywhere else will be plenty cheaper).
So save 1,000 dollars total if you get a peach, or spend 500 more to service if a lemon and wait a bit and still save 500 bucks from discounted AD price and put up with the month-ish wait to return from service.
For that reason I went grey with my seamaster. I got a peach and no worries.
Great formula. It all comes down to your aversion to risk.
Appreciate your integrity Mark, took some courage
Thanks John.
Great vid Marc, really informative with integrity. Awkward not to go grey market when no distribution in UK, like ORIENT! Sorry had to get that off my chest. Thanks.
Interesting about skx in USA....very odd. Cheers again good work sir.
We hope that changes soon for you.
Another thing to think about is sometimes grey watches can be more expensive! Like high demand steel Rolexes. I'm not sure that grey market is the appropriate term. But I do know if I want a green "hulk" Submariner, I could get one today... for thousands above MSRP.
Thank you Mark for this video. Definitely great content. Thank you for sharing all this knowledge!
Welcome!
Thanks Marc! Super informative as usual!
Many thanks.
agree
The way I see it, you have to figure service costs into the equation. For example, a new Bell & Ross BR03-92 is like around $3K from authorized channels, but from the big grey shop starting with "J" it's $2200. Guessing $400 to service this simple 3 handed watch. So say there's a problem with your grey watch, you could get it serviced and STILL be money ahead of AD price!
...and keep in mind that these big grey shops do provide their own warranty for watches they sell. Sure, certified Bell & Ross or Citizen or Rolex watchmakers aren't working on your stuff, but it will still get fixed.
Same market dynamics in almost every industry. Good presentation.
Absolutely. Watches are no exception.
Absolutely. Watches are no exception.
In some pharmaceutical manufacturing, they use a digital"pedigree" to track a product to the end user.
I always thought this was how it was, but thank you for addressing it.
Thanks for watching!
Another great video Marc ! Thank you ! My wristwatch check ? SKX Pepsi !!!!
Nice! Orient Ray and UN here.
Hey Mark, I have a question. I love my JDM Seiko / Citizen watches. What happens when, for example, my Seiko Tuna needs a battery change or service? Do I need to send it to Japan for service? Will the service center in US take care of me if I'm willing to pay for the services done or will they say "We don't service this watch, even though we are Seiko."
The USA will service them.
Your omega example is wrong: grey dealers do sell Omega watches with a stamped guarantee card from an AD, at least in Europe.
Result: global warranty on my Speedy :-)
Great video btw; very few people dare to discuss this topic! Thanks again; I'm a fan!
(P.s I'm based in Europe btw; different rules might apply although I doubt I have guarantee on my SKX009 bought in Singapore as well! ☺)
Not in Costco they weren't.
Long Island Watch what is Costco?
Excellent video Marc. Thanks for the clarification.
You are welcome.
Interesting facts about the Seiko SKX.. Thank you Mark!. Question though are you referring to the JDM models?
Those as well.
Long Island Watch Interesting.. Even my 7002 that I bought in '87-88?
Only one watch on the wrist... Marc's going wild today :P
And if Grey's too harsh, we can always say off white market :D
LOL, yeah, living crazy!
these videos are amazing!
What about discount channels like Nordstrom, TJ Maxx, etc.?
love your honest perspective
I always buy authorized. I feel like I appreciate it more because it's a watch that I didn't have to go a low ball route just to own.
Understood, but sometimes those options do not exist.
Excellent presentation. Thanks for the info Marc.
Thanks Karl.
Excellent video! Thanks.
Thank you.
I've collecting watches for almost a year, and in this short time I've noticed that at least in my contry the AD don't have as much models so when I wanted to buy a not so popular model I have to buy it at Jomashop or Amazon, anyway I have not bought anything that expensive
makes sense.
if AD and Manufacturers have 2-3-4 year old models in stock, they need to move them. Not every watch is a hit or just slow at that time.
ADs need to buy a min each year to stay an AD. So they need to get rid of stock. even at or below their cost to free up space and capital.
having a million dollar tied up on 300 watches in your stock rooms does them nothing.
Manufactures need to keep shipping every watch they make. they dont keep anything in reserve.
So welcome to the Grey market.
Good, informative video ...learned a bit about the market illustrated by my favorite brand, Seiko.
Hands on experience!
hello sir, thank you again for this great information. really help to understand more about gray market. keep it coming. all the best. cheers. :)
thanks for the video
Thanks for this! Refreshing honesty.
Welcome.
Wow hes right people dont know what gray is, great video!
Thx!
came learned liked
thanks Mark 👍
Perfect!