What does water resistance mean? - Watch and Learn #6
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Today's video is part 2 of Watch and Learn #5, which was an overview of water resistance. In this video we explain the various water resistant marks, and the specifications used to rate water resistant watches. We'll end with debunking a myth about dynamic water pressure and its effect on watch seals. Warning! Math and Science approaching!
EDIT: The 2nd equation should result in 4500 Pa, not 450 Pa. That is about 18 inches of water; still inconsequential but an error nonetheless.
longislandwatc...
Outstanding!!! Keep it going my friend.
Nice one Marc,
Best regards,
TGV
P.s. No WWC?!?!? ;-)
The Urban Gentry wwc very important! ;)
it 's actually because of your channel that I got to know this channel and this series. So thanks for that. Both great channels!
Thank you sir! An extreme feather in my cap coming from you!
Ha, I did do it. I'm wearing a Seagull and a Bulova Accutron, but I had to edit it out as it was horrible and I couldn't get it look good. Next time!
We should apply ISO standards to politics and journalism. A standard of honesty must be met and maintained to become certified and untruths will result in revoked certification, rendering you unable to work until certification standards have been met once again. Marc, you're a genius!
Haha, not really, just a watch guy. But thank you!
"Everyday is a school day" is something I sprout to anyone that wants to listen. As a non-engineer , I learn heaps from your vids. Is it no wonder I purchase from you, thanks for the lesson.
Thank you!
HOLY SH** Marc, that was honestly the best watch technical video I have ever seen. I honestly got so hype when you brought out the equations. OMG. best ever.
LOL, thanks.
Excellent. Thanks mate. I'm pretty new to this but I love watches. Your explanations are clear and understandable to a layman like me. Keep it up.
I brought my Seiko skx007 from you guys . The service was great and the watch is beautiful , thank you for posting .
Dude. This is awesome. It's an old video but I have to say your series of educational materials for watches are hard to find.
Wow - love the engineering lesson in the end. You teach with great humility.
I always learn so much from your videos,please keep doing them.
Yeah, Mark, really good and insightful videos. I'm really waiting for each new episode and learn A LOT!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Really great video.
Loved the video .. especially for those equations....brought back some other equations in my mind
Bernouilli's Law :-)
That's like 25 years ago since I have seen that one. .
Really appreciate this.
Best regards from Belgium
PS: Also thanks for bringing NB Yeager to my attention
Thanks! Trip down memory lane.
That was the first time I liked math lol. Great job!
I've seen watches that don't state "divers" or "100,200 metres" ,although they state 300 0r 500 metres on the face. is this standard comparable in quality to the "iso" or the "divers" accreditation?, apologies if you've covered this already, but could you tell us about the watches I've seen with the gas release valve, what is that all about? thanks again for the really informative stuff you do here.
Those damn sharks trying to bite off divers watches! Haha. Great video. Very informative. Loving this series. Keep up the good work.
Like Jaws!
Lots of marine predators are attracted to shiny objects. I once watched a video of a big green moray eel trying to bite the shiny weight belt buckle that our scuba instructor had on. He kept his cool and eventually turned away from the menacing moray and all was good. Shiny reflective dive watches (jewelry) are NOT a good choice. Perhaps a Casio, only to back up the dive computer. Most of the dive masters I've seen wear simple casios'.
Hi Marc,thank you. I keep telling you that you are in wrong field ,you make a great educator. 👍
Thank you sir!
Hi Franc, very interesting about the Standards, I owe a Seiko 200 meters and my concern, what happens when the watch is open in a Watch Service shop? the atmosphere where watch opens should be as dry as possible because after close the back condensation could occur later in a different relative humidity location..., how the service could match the ISO 6245 in order to re place what the watch was when new coming from factory?
Cosme from FL
Very nice INFORMATION_Thanks_i want seiko diver (not expensive)watch INFORMATION_pl
Fascinating. Thanks again!
Thanks.
Very informative, you also have very good handwriting
Haha, NO I do NOT! That was much care and slow writing. I write chicken scratch at best.
Long Island Watch Well then, we appreciate the effort!
Very informative - tank you
Thank you for checking it out.
When are the Seiko Monsters going to be back in stock? SRP307/309?
Sorry, we do not know. At best, the SRP313 will be back soon.
What if you are moving your hand quickly at say 90 meters? (I don't see depth as a variable in the equation for dynamic pressure, so it doesn't matter? (Interesting!))
My past detests these equations !!
Speed doesn't really matter. That was part of my point. The speed component of pressure is so small.
Shouldn't you be subtracting 10 meters because 0' is already one atmosphere? Therefore 5 atmospheres would only be 40 meters depth, right?
No, it is gauge pressure, not absolute pressure.
great video,,thanks
Thank you.
good to see you
As an engineer and a diver I liked the equations to prove the negligible effect of dynamic underwater activity in relation to static pressure. Love your site and your common sense approach.
This video really sold me on Seiko watches, I had no idea the difference in 200m resistance and Diver's 200 was so great, excellent and informative video!
Thank you for making this so easy to understand. Will you start a math for dummies series?
Maybe in the future! : )
Funny... like most other people, I've been assuming that "30 meters of water-resistance" means just that. So I've abused my watches over the years quite a bit, especially the beaters. Which, I have to be honest, were mostly regular Swatch models. And I haven't had any of them croak due to water intrusion. I've used them while fishing, swimming, water-skiing, snorkelling, boating ... you name it. And most of the time I was in sea-water with those cheap little plastic watches, thinking they'd be perfectly safe ... :D
Come to think of it, I've been wearing Swatches since the late 80s ... and the only one that ever died on me was a late 90s Irony Chrono that, after 15 years or so, started to suffer from a misaligned second hand.
I learn, therefore I thank you.
Thank you DesCartes!
Ha! Good one.
So here is my question. Since we figured out that movememnt in the water doesnt really put any significant additional pressure to the watch and since 30m WR watches have been tested to 3atm pressure, WHY shouldnt I go swim with it? Im really curious because the answer usually is that you're moving, while swimming and that adds more pressure, but you yourself did the math and thats wrong(i mean its way less significant than what they mean). According to the math i could even dive with that watch to ~29 meters. A simple 3BAR water resistant watch. But again in the end you say that what we should get out of this video is that 3bar WR isnt suitable for swimming, which contradicts your math. Im confused.
Indeed it is WR to 3 ATM, but watches age, not every single one is tested, etc. So to be safe you should not.
Science?! We know it's really magical wizards that cast the "water resist" spell over Seikos.
(waves the wand)
It's turtles all the way down.
japanese wizards are cool
I remember seeing couple of people on ye ol internet say never even shower if it's only 50 meters. My timex Ironman survived 12 years in the Marines before it finally died and that thing almost never came off my wrist. I know that's quartz and not mechanical but I think sometimes people way over think these things
You can always get lucky with a watch, I just wouldn’t trust anything important to one with a low rating if the intention was to take it into hazardous conditions.
I don't get it. For the record, I am an engineer, but the electrical kind. If a watch is rated for 5 ATM, and there is some safety margin, and dynamic pressure is negligible, then why can't you take it down to 5 ATM depth? Why are the ratings so conservative?
Great video! Thank you!
Just couldn't help myself, shouldn't dynamic value be 4500?
Anyway, keep it coming :)
Yikes!!! Thank you. At least someone is doing the math. Still orders of magnitude away, but thank you for catching it.
Great video. Very educational and so much so that if I'm ever in the market for a watch again, and it's one you sell, I get it from you. However, I think your negative comments regarding quartz divers is misguided. First of all, all dive computers (which is what real divers use in the modern age) are battery operated. Second, most high quality quartz watches indicate when the battery is getting low by skipping every two seconds. Third, there is a much higher chance of a mechanical watch developing an unknown problem and even stopping than there is of a quartz watch suddenly losing battery power. Fourth, if you have any problem with equipment, being a computer or watch, you simply end the dive and slowly return to surface, and serious technical (deep) diving requires redundant technology. The truth of the matter is that if watch wearers were really concerned about having the most reliable and durable watch, all sports and dive watches would be quartz. The reason less companies make such quartz watches, particularly at the high end, is that watch enthusiasts simply prefer mechanical watches for reasons other than logic and practicality. I like mechanical watches too.
Thanks for sharing!
You are lefty ,,,,,,,
yes, watches are like no other market. $15 dollar digital display watches probably keeps much better time than quartz operated watches. And quartz operated watches probably keep much better time than automatics. my $40 casio digital display watch quite reliable after 4 years of going into the ocean always pressing temp indicator function w/o having to replace battery. finally give it to friend to get something new.
I never believed what was stated about movement force on a watch in water was a valid concern. Since I understand the math and physics of fluid dynamics I did not bother calculating it. I knew all along that the change in pressure exerted on the watch and seals due to motion would be nothing, relative to the weight of the water at X depth. Pressure is a function of resistance to flow, and a watch presents very little resistance. I concluded the concern about dynamic water pressure effects on watch seals was pointless. Glad you did the math though.
17:53 "If a shark tries to bite it off"
*if a shark was trying to bite off my watch would I really care about my strap* 😂
I really like my strap.
It's like I'm going to online watch College! Great videos thanks.
Tuition free!
Thank you Mark, I'm a diver and i liked this series on water resistance
This was even better than Part 1. And frankly, the math was the best part IMHO.
I have a quartz Rodania since 2002 with 50m WR. Used it many times while snorkelling at depths around 5-6 meters every summer. I have even cleaned it in 1:1 diluted spirit of salts (~9% nitric acid) to clear the gunk that accumulates over time. I have had is battery replaced in the store I purchased it and in other stores, too. Never had any signs of water getting into the watch. It has a screw in case back. I believe good brands usually under-promise these types of specs.
My sister forgot to take off her *40* year whach whent to swimming class for a hour then put it in a bowl with rice for a day take it out and it works😋
okay so my seiko sks 009 can go into a pull. Good thing i did my research because my fossile with a 100m rating is not going anywhere near the pool lol.
Hi Marc. Pl do a review on Watch movements like ETA , Powermatic, tourbillon etc.
16:08 Quartz divers are falling out of favor because divers use dive computers instead. Dive computers basically are souped up digital watches that present a lot of diving specific information and run on lithium batteries or rechargeables. They have battery indicators and warn explicitly if you try to use them when they're low on battery.
I probably should have clarified that. Most of the Seikos and Orient divers have gone away from battery. I do understand that dive computers are quite popular. Thank you for the insight.
Dive computers are great but I still use both. Always good to have a manual backup when I’m underwater.
When I find the time I will binge watch an hour or so of your videos. This is the first I have commented on. Coming at this subject as a building engineer I give this video a 12 on a scale of 1 to 10. Just about every topic point covered and super easyu to understand. Great work, my friend.
Just started watching this series after I got a bit into watches. It's awesome. It really is a good sum-up for total newbies like I am. Thanks for all the effort and thought you have put into each one of these videos! We appreciate it.
i got extremely invested when you started showing the equations and i am not even an engineer or in college! dude knows his stuff! glad i know more about the water resistence with my gw9400 coming!
From now on i won't make shower or bathing with my watches again... :))
I just ordered a Seiko SKX007K1! It's great to learn just what value for money I'm getting with such stringent criteria required to classify a certified diver's watch.
I'd bought an Orient Ray 2 a fair few months back, but sadly the crown had popped out while I was swimming at the beach and it was too late when I realised salt water inside the dial. Note to myself - always check the crown before entering water.
I'm looking forward to receiving my new (and first) Seiko and I love that Long Island Watch has an associated RUclips channel. You provide a lot of useful information. (-:
- Aussie consumer.
Thanks for checking it out, and enjoy!
Great video, watched the previous one to. I look forward to more of your watch & learn pieces 🙂
I know how they could make a watch which is basically waterproof:
Solar quartz with lithium cell, digital
Now fill it with mineral oil (doesn't degrade or corrode the movement)
All parts of the case are synthetic and melted together in the end
The definitive video to the water resistance question. Great job! I also appreciate the use of formulas at the end. Completely removes any confusion or doubt regarding that issue.
My landlord was a marine biologist, he was doing an experiment on shark behavior, when something went wrong, and a shark bit off his arm to the elbow, he is now into real estate. I've never seen him wear a watch ?? 😎
So, what good are the ratings if 30m is actually good to 3cm? Without your informative video it appears watch manufacturers are making false claims.
Don't use the ratings, go by the table they put in their manual. 30 Meters is basic WR at best (from a liability standpoint)
Long Island Watch I wonder why they just don't just give us "real world" ratings. As you mentioned in your video, the ratings given are from controlled laboratory conditions and can be misleading to the uninformed. On the other hand, it could be a brilliant marketing ploy to give watch makers more business. hmmm.
Love the content you put out. More power to you, brother!
Thanks!
I have a Seiko 5 100m diver-like watch (e.g. bezel ring, lume indices, etc). But the crown is not a screw down. I am wondering how waterproof it is. Any advice? Anecdote?
Good enough for swimming and snorkeling; shouldn't go tank diving with it.
Imagine saving..for many years...for your "grail" maybe a Rolex or Breitling, or IWC, and you're loving your watch, and one day, water gets in? Then what do you do? Throw it away?
Thank you Mark. Very informative again. I am enjoying and learning from your great series!
Great, thank you.
Really good quality videos on this account!
Thank you.
Why don't manufacturer's make the bezel illuminate?
Some do.
My watch is rated 100 meters. Given what he said about the Bernoulli equations, I’m left wondering how what depth rating is accurate for my watch. If it is brand new, no age or damage to the seals yet, is the real rating pretty close to 100 meters?
I've newly subscribed. Scuba dived many decades ago - it was fun, but nothing I felt I just "had" to do. Plus, it can be expensive. However, I never lost my love for dive watches. I. Own many at varying values, but always end up back at Seiko. They are such great watches at such a great value and can be Modded relatively easily. Love these videos. These are by far the best and clearest on the Internet. You are a great teacher and presenter. Thank you for scratching our dive watch itch!
Thank you for watching (and learning!)
Little mistake there, the correct dynamic pressure of a watch moving at 3m/s would be 4500 Pa. Either way, if you are on a jet ski moving at 80km/h (22.22m/s) and you fall into the water, a 30m resistance watch would be ok.
Yes, see the edit in the description : )
Watched lastnight Mark but unfortunately on an Xbox One can't comment even signed into my RUclips account so commenting now. Great video. I'm watching your older videos slowly but surely! You have not aged from this old video to 6 years later in the present👊👊👊👊💪
Brilliant video! My one nitpick: the little g in Bernoulli's equations is not the gravitational constant. It's the local acceleration due to gravity. The gravitational constant is big G and does not change.
It really is a nitpick. Your explanations are wonderful. It's clear you have a background in engineering.
Great video and a clear explanation on water resistance Mark. As a scuba diver, it gives me some assurance that watch making industry has standards to meet in adding to safety. Thanks!
I was a scuba diver for about 12 years from mid 1980s to late 1990s. I would spend $15 to $25 for Casio digital watches labeled 50 meters and took them down, usually 50 to 60 feet, sometimes to 100 feet or a little more. Worked fine, never a failure. One of my instructors told me he had one in which the water pressure at 80 feet or so started pushing the watch’s buttons and it went crazy. Never happened to me. I swam with these watches, ran, rode bikes…they would take a licking. I would use them until the cheap plastic watchbands would break then it was back to KMart for another one. I no longer dive, but I swim with a Timex Ironman. I limit my Tissot and Omegas for more civilized environments. They say ignorance is bliss. I was a happy diver.
it's really a controversial subject. I reviewed my swatch Irony windfall, which I own for about 20 years. I use it for everything like swimming, showering, windsurfing etc.. never had an issue with it. I even use to operate the chronograph under water! As soon as one of my watches mentions water resistant, I'll take it for a swim although I try to avoid that if it's fitted with a leather strap..anyway, nice video! cheers
Haha, yes, true. Thank you! I've seen 30 meter watches used for diving and 200 meter divers fail in the rain!
Thanks Marc! That was excellent. I use my dive watches for diving and they are both DIVER rated. I had no idea the testing was so stringent but now I feel even more confident that they've passed the tests. Also thank you for dispelling the myth of dynamic pressure. I was talking with a buddy this week that is an avid swimmer and he brought this up. I had no idea what he was talking about.
Great video. Lots I didnt know but glad to learn (except the math, I'll take your word for it) Oh, what watch are you wearing?
Seems you shouldn't! I made an error; edit in the summary. I was wearing 42mm Seagull reissue and Bulova Accutron Spaceview.
You should educate also so many other channels about this dynamic pressure BS that they keep perpetuating! I’m also an engineer myself and have been commenting every time I hear this stupid argument about dynamic pressure! But it seems like the myth doesn’t die down yet…
I am a Electronics Engineer; you are right on the mark regarding testing methods, and math calculations. Many watch makers will do a static test at 10 bars for few minutes and not facture temperature variables. I have a Citizen echo watch that was quite expensive, there is no screw on crown or back case, and it is rated at 20 bars. My very expensive Hamilton does have screw on crown and case back rated at 10 bars. I would trust the Hamilton over the Citizen for testing if I chose that path, "great discussion".
thanks. that math's/physic's lesson helped me a lot understanding the trade [wristwatching: tissot seastar chronograph, 30 bars, blue-black dial - i love it].
It's obvious that the claims of water resistance of watches belongs to the biggest frauds in the industry of technology.
While 30m is the lowest common claimed water resistance for a watch it's still a depth for experienced divers, and the water pressure is 4 times the surface pressure. If a model is not secure to be used for bathing and shower it should simply not be to claimed as 30m water resistant. Then it should be called "splash resistant" or similar.
You don't claim that a rope can hold the weight of a car, and at the same time that it's not suitable for lifting a motorbike. That's double talk.
WO WO the man behind the hands
love you content . you are the WIKI watch of youtube congrats.
thank you! Great moniker!
Liked a lot that explanation. Both the one about the iso and the maths. but considering that, why can’t i dive with my 100 meter/10 atm water resistant watch?. I know i shouldn’t but i don’t understand why it claims 100 meters if it can’t go to those depths if the movement nearly doesn’t afect.
Great info, thanks! Esp the dynamic pressure debunk. Also the info on ISO 6425, great stuff
You briefly mentioned orange colored hands and dial markers and the reason why they were orange in color. You never went into detail as to why. I think that color scheme is very sharp, and I am planning on doing a dive watch on my next build with that color scheme. Why orange instead of some other dark to light contrasting color scheme with the hands and dial markers. Is there something more to it than just a Hi-Vis appearance?
Very informative and awesome video, I never imagined water resistance on a watch was that spacific. Thanks.
So could my Tissot seastar 300m without diver written on it be used for diving?
Also the 'dynamic water pressure myth' seems to suggest that a 3atm rating would be fine being submerged?
I was worried about waterfalls exerting too much pressure on my watch, I guess I still am till I calculate the final velocity of falling water at 100’ 😅
What happens if you can’t find the correct O-ring for the back of your watch and/or the thickness of it too? Should you buy slightly smaller of larger?
As a general rule of thumb, get a dive watch that's rated to at least twice the working pressure. So, if you're going to do dives that average depths of 150' get a watch that is rated to at least 300 feet. Season according to taste.
Not that it makes a whole lot of difference, but you're missing a zero on your dynamic calculation. It should be 4500 Pa
Thanks for the video. I suggest doing a future watch and learn video on how to use a slide rule bezel. I found the owner's manual of a Citizen Nighthawk to be quite informative on that matter.
Thank you! That is actually one of my ideas, but it can get quite complicated. Thank you for watching.
Mark, thanks - and a fix on you maths. The dynamic calc comes to 4,500 not 450. Doesn’t change the conclusion much.
So based on this I am guessing I shouldn't swim but can take a shower wearing my 100m Tissot ... Just have to watch out not to push the buttons. Correct?
Great video…I learned a lot from this with which watch rating to buy for a true Divers Watch. Thank-you!
Chemical engineer here, at least you showed your work so you would gotten half credit if the TA grading the test wasn't hung over! LOL
I’m wearing 2 300m divers with helium valves on them. One I wear daily and the other was next in line to wear for a week. I have over 50 watches in my collection.
16:16 this is why you get a solar powered quartz watch ? like the citizen aqualand with eco drive or the casio frogman with tough solar? you can also check its charge on the casio app or even on it's face before the dive..
What about the arm's velocity under water? Couldn't it easily reach values way higher than 50 mph?
Amazing video series! Just got done with ep 5 and 6, I feel enlightened! Thank you so much!
Hope you keep this series going. I just suscribed.
Look t the video where the guy puts olive oil in a 15 dollar casino and then attached it to an underwater rover. It survived 900 mtrs happily! Liv repeated it
Thank you for the informative video Mark. I'd definitely have destroyed my watch otherwise. This motivates me to get a proper diver watch for vacationing and outdoors activities purposes.
Great timing then!
Casio duro has 200meter written on its dial and costs less than 50$. Do they test every single piece for such a low price?
The pressure equation was the cherry on top. Amazing video!