sorry to be offtopic but does any of you know of a way to get back into an Instagram account? I was stupid forgot my password. I would appreciate any tips you can give me
@Dawson Crosby I really appreciate your reply. I found the site on google and im in the hacking process atm. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
I am a RL fixed wind pilot and this makes perfect sense! A turn induces drag which causes the craft to lose altitude, causing the need to compensate with pulling back on the yoke to pitch the nose up. I should have been flying my quad in “acro” mode this whole time. 🤦♂️
It’s the same with fixed wing… you have to keep back pressure in a turn. Basic aerodynamics, only difference on a quad you can also apply throttle instead.
I was flying yesterday and it just hit me why this happens: Let's say you turn left with yaw and roll. When you roll left, then yaw left, that leftward roll became a forward pitch.
"I'm doing this in Liftoff so I can flex that my house is in liftoff. Also because it'll be easier" Haha kidding. I love that we can fly around your house and race there. Great addition to the game
Great video! This seems so obvious to the experienced pilots that you'd never think to explain it to the new pilots. This video is super helpful to the new guys! It's easy to forget how scary and confusing acro mode can be.
Coordinated turning is the hardest thing for any pilot to get a grasp on when they start in this hobby and doing it well takes hours and hours and hours of practice. This is a great video. Thanks JB.
I think the best way to learn is to just put in many hours of simulator time. It gets to the point where you just do it and don't even think about it. Kind of like how when riding a bike you don't have to think about balancing it, you just do it out of muscle memory.
@@Plur307 Personally, I think all pilots should be able to fly a simulator and have the quad do exactly what they think it should do before ever putting a real airframe into the sky. LOTS of folks who post videos on youtube, can't do that. When I started I couldn't do that! That's changed over 3 years of FPV and 1000's of hours of sim time for me.
@Plur307 Exactly right, I spent weeks learning acro with FPV Freerider to the point where I didn't have to think about how to maneuver the craft, my thumbs did it automatically, only then did I start flying acro with a real quad, a Kingkong 90GT like 2.5 years ago now. First flight lasted 30 seconds because I got too ambitious too quickly and tried to do a flip :D
@@licensetodrive9930 2 months with a transmitter and my computer before I decided to put my first quad in the air and it still took me years and thousands of hours to get as good today as I have become, even 2 years in and a hundred hours in the sim, I was garbage. My youtube channel has my videos back to my first race ever! I go back to understand how far I've come, and I send newer pilots who watch me fly today to my youtube channel to show them that it really is that hard at first!
@fellstar My RUclips channel is similar to yours in that it's a history of my flight capability, from the first year GPS quad footage and then on to FPV with a Syma X5C clone with an AIO camera on, then a Kingkong 90GT, other Kingkong's and to my current level with Emax Hawk & Mobula 6. Have to say, your Mobula 6 flying is super smooth, I'm not a racer I just like the freestyle/exploration aspect of FPV, being free from the ground to explore areas in a way that nothing else can.
The way I explain acro vs angle to my friends is by comparing degree/sec with degree. On angle you pitch forward and with each mm you move the stick, the drone pitches by a certain degree. Meanwhile on Acro you pitch forward and with each mm you move the stick, the quad rotates at a faster rate of deg/sec. Example on angle: Stick is pitched fully forward, the quad flies at a steady 45° forward. On Acro: Stick is pitched fully forward and the quad rotates at 1000°/sec
This was one of the last beginner concepts that I was struggling with understanding. I would always find myself using pitch as a constant way to adjust speed and I just came back to this video to say that it has helped me so much! I have felt myself improving on my 4 packs a day. Thank you Bardwell!
In a bank you are trading vertical component of lift for horizontal component of lift and to maintain level flight need to pitch up. Whether a drone or RC fixed wing or full scale aircraft - Physics. Great video JB! Thank you
Joshua - this might have been the most helpful video if yours that I have ever seen. As a person trying to learn when I have a little free time and no one around me that knows anything about FPV flying I truly was struggling to learn how to fly... The reasons for the sticks being in seemingly odd positions makes total sense once you isolate and demonstrate what is happening. I have Liftoff and hot damn if what you said here isn't also happening for me! What a relief. This hobby is a real pain in the rear most of the time compared to other RC hobbies! Worth it though but only if you are able to find answers to your current issues quickly and easily... FC's and flashing, setups, tuning, soldering skills, getting things "unbricked" on occasion, debugging of a build, there is just a lot of things a person needs to know to be successful in FPV - worth it though! Cheers Oh, and THANK YOU for what you do!
I think people think of flying in the same term of driving a land vehicle. You have friction slowing you down in the turns with a land vehicle. There is very little friction when you are flying. Therefore you have to pull back to use the air as you would the asphalt in a car. It’s a totally different way of driving. And all that is learned from stick time and crashes. Great video Josh!
Since I'm quarantined, I finally had time to break my DJI/angle habit and learn acro. Yesterday didn't go to well, but today i finally got it. Must have flown 20 packs on my tinyhawk today.
Honestly all of your videos are fantastic but this one in particular really helped me understand a ton. "don't think of it as forward and backward, think of it as faster and slower". That made it click so hard in my head.
Damn Mann you’re a legend I started practicing in the sim FPV air 2 three days ago and was struggling with going forward and turning and you upload this video explaining why I’ll say it again BLOODY LEGEND. You’ve got new subscriber
Set up my DIY tiny whoop loops out back..glad I got into fpv now..i used pvc n hula hoops..oh n clear tape..added leds and diy lion Batt packs from laptop packs..im not bored I swear..you guys are getting us rc pilots good press....keep at em..
I've only flown my DJI quad 3 times so far, and this totally makes sense, especially after reading some of the wonderful comments. Thank you for the quick tutorial. You are one of my main go-to instructors on Quads and have been tremendously helpful. I don't have much time to fly but I watch tons of your videos all the time. I'm working on a computer build so I can start flying on a sim (my current computer is 16 years old) lol. I'm looking forward to this hobby as a form of relaxation in my off time. Thanks for all your work, it is very well appreciated.
Thank you so much for that explanation! You gave me an 'a ha' moment that really helped me figure out flying. I'm brand new to FPV, I don't even have a drone yet, but I've been following you and Steele, and stingy and the rotor riot guys for almost two years now and I just didn't think I had the knack for flying. I'm just working in simulators so I can really get the basics down before I invest in a good build, but I could not figure out what I was doing wrong about controlled/coordinated turns. Your explanation really helped me overcome that learning obstacle I was stuck on by reframing the way I think about pitch. I had all but given up but with this simple explanation of thinking of pitch as speed rather than forward and back it finally clicked for me. I can actually fly controllably now, instead of the controlled careening I was doing before as I over accelerated and overcompensated trying to keep all the axes in my head. Thank you so much. I'm gonna have to put in a lot of hours of practice to really get lock it down, but you got me back into flying after a couple months of frustration.
The trick to getting acro in your head is to remember the stick movements CORRECT (Change?) the current attitude. Let the sticks go to center with no maintained pressure (except throttle) and then "bump" a little forward pitch in, etc. Don't fly in autolevel or you'll chase your tail for ages. Good Luck!
Its nice you still have the patience and capability to engage the completely new pilots. U rarely see that from veterans making videos. Well done bud. 👍
For a newbie yo FPV (just starting with SIM) this is amazing. I was so wondering why I can't fly properly straight, less so I need to counter for the tilt in turns. Thansk!
Hi Joshua - always enjoy your videos. I think that there is an aerodynamic principle here. As the quad (aeroplane, heli, glider etc) banks the wings (rotor or fixed ) produce less lift when compared to the horizontal left effect. As you demonstrated, the quad will sink if left unchecked, the back stick movement raises the nose and prevents the sink. You might find that to maintaining your speed you will also need to increase your throttle. So, to maintain speed and keep a constant altitude in a turn you use both pitch and throttle and the greater the bank the more inputs required. Cheers
i agrer with your thats what i wrote.... @film_pi_vox 0 seconds ago but as you lose altitude wouldn't it make sens to raise the throttle and then lowering it a bit when you're out of the turn. by doing this you dont lose altitude but most important you dont lose speed by pitching back..
Thank you for posting this. I remember when I first started practicing Acro coming from Angle mode that this took a bit of time to figure out. And, I don't remember ever seeing this referenced in any of the how to videos I watched on RUclips talking about how to fly in Acro mode.
This little tip changed the way I fly significantly... as in, I don't face plant into the ground as much when turning. Thanks for making this video. :)
Fixed wing pilot here: You're using the same exact stick inputs to turn that I use. My nose wants to drop if I turn without pulling back on the pitch as well. If I use yaw only I get some different effects(Depending on the plane itt'l bank into the turn as if I had used roll anyway) but they all tend to drop the nose a bit unless I pull back on the pitch a scoche.
I never realized that I'm pitching backward when turning, until seeing this video. Had to go outside and verify, and behold, I'm pitching backward. One of these subconscious muscle memory moves...
It's like riding a bike. Really. Everyone does it by instinct and they've never been taught what they are doing. It might seem you just turn the handle bars in the direction they want to go, right? Not even close. It's a three step process. First turn briefly *opposite* of the direction you want to go, this makes you lean into the turn you want to make and then you can turn the handle bars in the desired direction. Try riding in a straight line and make a turn without the opposite waggle. It can't be done.
Thank you JB! I finally get it now.... I’ve been flying “angle mode” since I started, for years. Since I’m not the sharpest knife in the draw, I just couldn’t wrap my head around the physics of the way Acro reacts . You explained it perfectly with the use of ‘lift off’. I’m happy to report, not only did I learn something as always from your videos , this time I learned something HUGE! The lightbulb above my head finally lit up!! Id also like to thank you for giving me/us an awesome diversion from all of the depressing news on this crazy war we are all in. I hope You and your family are all doing well. Keep up the great work as always!
I play helicopter sims on the PC and almost all the physics of how a heli flies are transferable to kwads. Played the OG Gunship for years and you get it once you understand the basics. I gave myself 6 months to learn how to fly kwads when I 1st started and was finally happy in acro after about 3. Everything else from then on is just a learning curve on how to fly better.
Hi JB. Of all the great videos you put out and along with Rotor Riot THIS video alone was a pure "light bulb turning on" moment. Exactly the video I needed and explained so much. Great work and keep it up. P.S. love the fridge outro you've been doing ha ha ha 👍👍👍
2:28 is vital information for noobs i worked it out but didn't really explore much into acro because I wasn't confident to pitch back just started pitching back and it honestly feels like when you try to commit to a backflip irl... committing to the fact that physics will work... and then getting confidence from it... i'm 3 hours into simulation flying with a tbs tango 2. just enjoying auto level flight mode at the moment...
That's given me an idea, do a Rotor Riot episode trying to fly/race without pitching back (like electronically block it out on the transmitter so it's impossible) would be fun to watch pilots would have to do flips and other moves to fly. Sure Vanover would ace it ! (this would obviously be post Corona)
@@Croznyj why use an artificial horizon when you have a real horizon? If you can't see the ground there's a major issue with your camera angle or your flying too high.
Hi, it's not simultaneous yaw and roll which make the quad pitch down : it's different depending of which one dominates the other. If you roll faster than you yaw, yes you will fall in the turn and need to correct by pitching back, if you yaw faster than you roll then you slip out of the turn and need to correct by pitching forward. Additionally, the exact balance point of rotation rate when one would start to dominate the other actually depends of the angle of the quad : at 45° forward you need the same rotation speed on both axis, but at lower angle you will need more yaw than roll (and reciprocally, at higher angle, more roll than yaw). You can feel this by increasing your yaw rate : for the exact same stick position as before during a turn, you would find that you now have to correct by pitching up instead of down.
I agree with what you said about the balance of yaw vs roll. But I would say if you yaw too much and end up needing to pitch forward to correct, then you failed to correctly coordinate the turn. However, that is a cool trick you can do if you intend to exit the turn facing a different direction. For example, yaw "too much" to flatten out and then backflip away or something.
Thank you so much for this video, when I wasn't thinking I would do fine but the minute I turned to do better turns I would end up in the ground. This makes so much sense now.
Look at fixed wing principals of flight as a quad follows the same rules. Aircraft in level flight at a constant speed and power setting - lift = weight = equilibrium. Turn and some of your lifting power is being used to turn so less is left to maintain height and therefore the nose sinks. So in a fixed wing aircraft when turning you apply some back pressure on the stick to increase the angle of attack of the wing and generate the additional lift required to maintain height. 👍🏻
Jushua! THANKS A LOT! Sorry for capslock, but now i can finally turn where i want in liftoff. I was already pissed of, but now i hit the freaking gates!
Bardwells ability to make something simple complicated is unparalleled. Even though Ive been flying for a few months now I have never really thought about the things you brought up in this video.
Acro and Camera angle. Once you get the camera angle nailed you hardly have to pitch forward, unless you need to go regain more speed out of trick moves etc or gain more speed in straight lines. Back pitch more before turns and obstacles to avoid overshoot and crashing into stuff. Informative as usual JB.
Been watching tons of your videos and this one makes it all click!!! Thanks for the info! Every learning to fly acro video should tell people this!!! Thank you so much!!
I got a DJI Mini 3 Pro a few weeks ago, mostly for photography. I've been having a lot of fun with it and love the pics and videos and my new view of the world. The RUclips rabbit hole lead me to FPV videos and I now have an interest in possibly getting started with flying FPV quads (not with the DJI, clearly). I decided the smartest route, before buying a second copter, was to use the Sims to learn the controls (I'm a long time video gamer, which hasn't really helped in learning to fly). I came across this video last night and this evening I decided "no time like the present to start learning." (I also registered for the PI class to study for my 107). I'd bought a Zorro ELRS for playing sims (and future potential flying). I'd set my Zorro to be self centering and had been practicing in Zephyr. I un-did that the self-centering throttle and started in Drone Racing League. Through the tutorial and my first race (ug, that went poorly) and first freestyle (futuristic city), I kept feeling "these controls are still pretty much like the DJI, it's nothing like what Bardwell described." So I looked again. I switched the Level from Beginner to Pro (without damage) and then moved to a less-busy freestyle level (aircraft boneyard), and NOW I completely understand what I saw in this video. I'll be practicing for FPV starting here. Thanks for this video so I knew what flying FPV SHOULD kind of look like on the sticks and helping me pre-understand some of how the sticks interact. I'd imagined going through the various "levels" on DRL would be helpful, but for my goals I really need to start learning in Pro - Beginner and Intermediate just a waste of muscle memory.
Update: I'm kind of loving flying in Tryp. I remember those first flights struggling with the controls and the first time I mostly circled the blimp a couple times at a somewhat consistent altitude. And then flights telling myself "pitch forward," which felt so awkward at first. While I'm no freestyle expert and I cannot yet rock the races, I feel completely comfortable flying all around the Tryp maps, making lots of gaps, flying between trees, etc. I've seen huge progress in the last two weeks with a small amount of daily sim time (30-60+ minutes -- more since I got Tryp). This is the video that started me off - Thanks!
Which is only short for acrobatics which I as an oldschool-heli guy (thug life clip playing right now... ;D) would call aerobatics anyway. But I guess Aero as a mode just doesn't sound that cool. ^^
I hope my comment doesn't detract too much from Joshua's excellent explanation, I like boiling things down to their core, my English teachers at school hated that about my work. I would have laughed so hard if he started out with "Why don't FPV pilots pitch foward so much? Because acro." then did a mic drop & thug life music moment :)
When I first started flying I kept flying straight into the ground and it just wasn’t clicking, I happened across this video and the concept of pulling back during turns was a revelation!
This video sums up how I crashed my first build last week. After hovering my brand new first build for two minutes (happily) - I wanted to feel it accelerate forward. So I sharply pitched forward and instead of accelerating forward, I pitched head over heels VERY FAST into the pavement (luckily the battery took most of the impact). Apparently, the drone that I learned to fly on was in angle mode (I didn't realize that until now). And now I understand the difference between angle and acro mode :\
7:50 I think a more accurate reason is because a turn is an acceleration. But rather than accelerating forward by pitching forward, you want to accelerate into the turn, pushing away from the center of rotation. To counter act momentum or since you are moving, you have to counteract the effective centrifugal force fron your frame of reference by pitching back to stop moving forward and pitching sideways to accelerate towards the point of rotation.
That is 100% correct. To turn, you have to direct thrust normal to the tangent of the circle. Hmm.... maybe not normal.... because you need forward thrust too.
Camera angle also plays a large roll in how extreme these effects are, I find. Since I fly with 0 camera angle I end up pitching back a lot, even in snap turns. Which was contrary to some advice I had seen in doing snap turns. But when I finally got a hang of turning while inverted and I noticed I was pitching forward during tight turns out finally dawned on me what was happening, because just trying to think about how the combined effects of pitching and rolling work is very difficult until you see it in action.
I hope Liftoff sponsored this video, because I bought it just to fly around your house. Not in a weird stalker way, just to fly where I see you test and review drones. :)
Thankyou JB, thats put some perspective on my flying in liftoff, ive found myself pitching back more than forward but was having some issues with getting myself too low to the ground and crashing, altho it was fine on other areas of the track. NOW i get it why these things are happening. great explanation. cheers bro!
I usually associate pitch with the nose of the quad and yaw with the tail end of the quad for a new pilots or pilots coming from 2-3 channel airplanes.Using pitch to adjust the nose in forward flight will adjust your speed like Joshua said. And mixing yaw, roll, and pitch back will give you the nice “flat” turn in toward flight, essentially keeping the “tail” of the quad level.
damn this changes everything! I have only just started out in Liftoff and I was wondering why I was going so fast when trying to turn. Thank baby cheeses for JB 🎉👏👏👏
So question - is it safe to say that as you pitch forward then move the stick back to its neutral position the drone itself stays in that tilted position thus continues to move forward until you tilt the stick back which tilts the drone back thus slowing or stopping it?
Hi Joshua, Great subject on pitching. As a beginner I use angle mode, but when I get scared in the wind, I freeze up and let go of the sticks, but now understand that the quad is automatically levelling itself, but when this happens and there is a sudden gust of wind my quad gets blown in the opposite direction. I have started using acro, based on your explanation I now understand it is probably safer to use acro in windy conditions as letting go of the throttle maintains current direction of movement so less likely to be blown off course by unexpected gusts of wind. Would be interested to know your view on this. Thanks again. I am another newby, who would have probably given up trying to get into fpv if it wasn't for your video tutorials over the last few years
Finally 😃I noticed the speeding up effect in turns also in my acro-efforts, but I thought I accidentally was pitching forward every time. I’m gonna give this a try. Thnx 👍
Maybe I have a bad habit of holding my pitch forward as I fly. I guess I have it in my mind that if I pull back to center , I'll slow down. How do you think that effects my style? Good, bad, or normal?? Thx for all the vids. You have helped me a ton getting into this hobby . I'm still pretty fresh and I'm doing the 3 packs a day as well . More like 6 to 12 packs a day . You rock dude. Keep up the good work.
The opposite can also happen and I don't mean by flying backwards. If you adjust yae first then adjust roll to be horizontal again you will loose your initial pitch. But rolling first then adjusting yaw is more common when you are tilted forward because it is more intuative
You are Awsome at explaining. I had to fine tune my tunes, and you gave me a physics lesson that made it extremely educational. Thank you for putting this video together.
I'm from the OLD days of R/C (as in, my first radio was 27.195 MHz). I remember when channel mixing came around, and you could program to kick opposite rudder in a bank. Is anything similar done with quads, such as having yaw kick in when you pitch? My biggest trouble in sims seems to be balancing throttle, pitch, roll, yaw. For now, my real drones have altitude hold so I can at least get some flight time in...
This is the video that earns my subscription, you just helped move forward in my fpv journey, the way you explained the right stick made soooooooooo much more sense than anything
This is a great video - I'm trying to get back into FPV after a few years away and so far have only really flown angle mode and I've been struggling with Liftoff! I feel like I'm all over the place in turns - gonna be mindful of this next time I try!
Thx. I understand rate mode now (learned something today!). Hey ... maybe shoulda titled it why rate mode FPV pilots don’t pitch fwd so much. I do almost all of my flying in horizon mode, BTW. Been playing with rate, but I am always flying through and among trees ... and I’ll stop an hover if I like the view. Easier in horizon than in rate.
I wish more people understand this: In **level** or **angle** mode, stick deflection commands the desired pitch and roll. In **acro** or **rate** mode, the stick deflection controls the RATE of change of pitch and roll, in radians or degrees per second if you will. It is like the difference between position and velocity, or between gallons and gallons per minute.
Or you may say: "In acro mode roll and pitch work the same way as yaw.". The easiest way to explain how acro mode works to someone who is using angle mode is to tell them his yaw command already is in acro mode.
Whether you have to constantly pitch backwards during the turns *or not* depends on (1) how much uncompensated roll input you produce compared to your current pitch angle when the pitch/camera angle is low and it depends on (2) how much uncompensated yaw input you produce compared to your current pitch angle when pitch/camera angle is high. In other words, if your camera angle is low then even smaller roll input is going to tilt the quadcopter more to the side than it was before tilted forward, meaning that after applying yaw (which will effectively transform your roll into new pitch) your new forward pitch is going to be higher than it was before turning - meaning you will have to correct it by inputting pitch backwards. It is very easy to visualize it (case 1) when analyzing what happens in the extreme case when starting forward pitch is zero and the quadcopter is level. In that case, after applying roll right the quadcopter and then yaw right to turn the front of the quadcopter in the direction of the tilt, the new forward pitch will increase from zero to whatever roll input was applied before yaw. Of course, the same happens in case of applying roll+yaw at the same time. On the other hand - if your camera angle is high and the camera is level, then by first applying yaw the quadcopter's front "climbs" towards the sky (if you apply 180 degree of yaw the quadcopter is going to even face the sky) and after you apply roll to "correct the horizon" the quadcopter's forward pitch is going to be lower than it was before. Again, to visualize that (case 2) we can analyze what happens in the extreme case when starting forward pitch is 90 degrees (impossible to fly at such a pitch but it doesn't matter). In that case, after applying yaw right and then roll right until the horizon becomes level, the new forward pitch will decrease from 90 degrees to some smaller angle which depends on how many degrees the quadcopter was rotated by applying yaw - meaning you will have to correct it by inputting pitch *forward* as some flying with high camera angles already noticed. For example, if the quadcopter was by applying yaw rotated by 90 degrees, then after applying roll (which will effectively transform your yaw into new 90° minus pitch) to level the horizon the new forward pitch is going to be zero and the quadcopter starting at 90 degrees forward pitch will after "the turn" become level. If the quadcopter was by applying yaw rotated by 45 degrees, then after applying roll to level the horizon the new forward pitch is going to be 45°. If the quadcopter was by applying yaw rotated by 25 degrees, then after applying roll to level the horizon the new forward pitch is going to be 65°. In other words, in that case (2) the yaw gets directly transformed into the pitch and since we measure the pitch from the angle when the horizon is level, the new pitch is going to be 90° - yaw [°] (90° minus how much degrees the quadcopter way rotated by applying yaw). However, in both - case (1) and case (2) - it *is* possible to make a turn without touching the pitch! The question is then why we are inputting the pitch (backwards or forward) when making turns. It is because it is very difficult to always coordinate yaw and roll inputs to the degree when pitch displacement cancels out so every pilot develops his own "strategy" by overshooting the pitch in one of the two possible directions and then compensates it by applying pitch. And yes, it is possible to even in the case (1) overshoot in such a way so you have to use pitch *forward* to compensate the pitch and it *is* possible to even in the case (2) overshoot in such a way so you have to use pitch *backwards* to compensate the pitch. But in the case (1) it is more likely you will overshoot in such a way you will have to use pitch backwards and in the case (2) it is more likely you will overshoot in such a way you will have to use pitch forward.
I ran some simulator tests using much higher camera angles, and the pitch stick was still back in all my turns. You're right that if you are pitched forward, then yaw, you'll flatten out. But that specific combination of inputs doesn't produce a thrust vector that results in a smooth turn. To test the theory, I flew for about a half hour using no pitch at all. And the takeaway is that if you do that, you have to yaw one direction, then roll, then yaw back, to achieve a new pitch angle. The most efficient way to turn is to yaw and roll into the turn, and pitch back. I submit that any stick movement that involves pitch forward is less efficient and destabilizes the quad more.
@@JoshuaBardwell No doubt the most efficient way is to turn like a plane but the fact is turning without touching the pitch *is* possible. When turning without using the pitch the quadcopter rotates around the axis which is perpendicular to the Earth and with lower camera angles that looks as the quadcopter is hanging on the rope. It would be as if the plane would turn by using the rudder, the quadcopter in such a case moves as hockey puck on the ice. When the plane makes turn by half roll + pitch backwards (and by using the rudder not to lose the height) then the movement is similar as to if the plane would be tied to some fixed point by a rope. Another fact is, as I said, it is much more likely that when you are using very high camera angles, then you will overshoot the yaw over roll and that you will have to correct the mistake by applying pitch forward. Regarding "And the takeaway is that if you do that, you have to yaw one direction, then roll, then yaw back, to achieve a new pitch angle.", you can *always* achieve the same by using yaw then roll *or* yaw+roll at the same time (it is function composition). You can achieve the new pitch angle by only one pair of yaw and then roll but then you can't choose arbitrary turn angle *and* the new pitch at the same time because the new pitch is defined by the old pitch and the yaw rotation. But you can *always* turn without using the pitch and preserving the current pitch by applying precisely right ammount of yaw and precisely right ammount of roll in the same time. Of course, such a turns will be very wide (the radius will be large). BTW, do not think that I am one of those who disliked the video, I liked it becuse it is about the interesting topic. It is true everyone could fly the quadcopter without thinking about it but it is still interesting to analyze such things.
Very good video and explanation. Although I basically knew that it worked this way (yeah I don't fly ACRO yet), this is a good explanation with visual reinforcement. Like the stick "overlay". Yeah that simulator does look like your place (I watch a lot of your videos). Thanks.
Interesting thing to note, as a racer with a generally higher angle (50°) I notice I actually do the opposite, I tend to pitch forward a little in tight turns.
I bet if we had a blackbox log, we would see that you pitch forward at the beginning of the turn, which puts your thrust vector more "outwards" so you can turn sharper. Then you complete the turn mostly using roll axis and pitch back to your cruise angle as you exit the turn. But I don't think anybody is turning while pitching forward throughout the whole turn. I just don't think the physics work that way.
The more camera tilt you have the more your roll and yaw axis seem to mix together from the point of view of the camera. If you have 45 degree camera angle and you do a pure roll, it will appear like you did a mixed roll and yaw. The camera angle option in betaflight adds compensation for this. So if you set the angle in betaflight to 45 degrees and try to roll, it will automatically input the yaw you would need to make it appear like you are rolling from the camera's point of view. I have been flying for 5 years and never use this feature. I think it does more harm than good.
it mixes roll and yaw so that from your camera's perspective, the controls match what you'd expect to see if your camera was set to 0 degrees. Most pilots don't fly with this, although I imagine a few pilots flying at very high angles might have some application for it. It messes with how you expect the quad to behave.
@@jpsalis I don't like it because sometimes I lift my goggles and fly line of sight as well. Trying to fly line of sight with camera tilt compensation would be very difficult. There have been a few times where I lost video mid flight and was able to quickly lift my goggles and fly the quad back to me by line of sight.
HA! I'm only 6 hours deep on DRL Sim and this video makes me ask, why so many people fly in acro mode (Edit: Oops, meant stabilization mode, I’m still learning the lingo)? TY Joshua, I was only looking for info on RemoteID for my airplanes and now I'm into quad racing! In the very near future, I will have to click on one of your affiliate links.
As a beginner flying indoors (and on sims), angle mode (stabilised mode / autolevel mode) it is far more intuitive. I am now learning acro / rate mode, and this video helped a lot.
@@c00p3rm4n I used angle mode for my first couple hours. I was laughing at first because pro mode seemed completely impossible, I’d tumble about and crash.
I took me a while to realize that pitching forward did not really make me go faster as much as it made me go faster towards the ground. That to go faster I needed to go up on the left stick and back on the right stick. The hardest part in going from a camera drone was to quit pitching forward (down). Thanks for graphical example JB.
It's just like changing lanes in a car. Do you hold the steering wheel left for a prolonged time or enough to change course? I don't advice holding the steering wheel. ;)
I love how Bardwell can fly around HIS OWN HOUSE in the simulator, then do the same in real life.
sorry to be offtopic but does any of you know of a way to get back into an Instagram account?
I was stupid forgot my password. I would appreciate any tips you can give me
@Dawson Crosby I really appreciate your reply. I found the site on google and im in the hacking process atm.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Dawson Crosby It worked and I now got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thank you so much, you saved my account :D
@Wyatt Maximus Happy to help =)
why does this feels like a forced conversation
Just learning to fly quads. As a fixed wing RC pilot THIS was my "A Ha" moment!!!!! Thank you!!!!
same bro same
I often have these moments, sometimes more than once for the same thing...
I am a RL fixed wind pilot and this makes perfect sense! A turn induces drag which causes the craft to lose altitude, causing the need to compensate with pulling back on the yoke to pitch the nose up. I should have been flying my quad in “acro” mode this whole time. 🤦♂️
Right?!
It’s the same with fixed wing… you have to keep back pressure in a turn. Basic aerodynamics, only difference on a quad you can also apply throttle instead.
I was flying yesterday and it just hit me why this happens: Let's say you turn left with yaw and roll. When you roll left, then yaw left, that leftward roll became a forward pitch.
Yeah exactly
"I'm doing this in Liftoff so I can flex that my house is in liftoff. Also because it'll be easier"
Haha kidding. I love that we can fly around your house and race there. Great addition to the game
But, the JB in the sim is wearing pants... :)
@@Noircogi sacrilege!
Great video! This seems so obvious to the experienced pilots that you'd never think to explain it to the new pilots. This video is super helpful to the new guys! It's easy to forget how scary and confusing acro mode can be.
Finally there is a video that make sense for a beginner pilot. Great video. Thx JB
Coordinated turning is the hardest thing for any pilot to get a grasp on when they start in this hobby and doing it well takes hours and hours and hours of practice.
This is a great video. Thanks JB.
I think the best way to learn is to just put in many hours of simulator time. It gets to the point where you just do it and don't even think about it. Kind of like how when riding a bike you don't have to think about balancing it, you just do it out of muscle memory.
@@Plur307 Personally, I think all pilots should be able to fly a simulator and have the quad do exactly what they think it should do before ever putting a real airframe into the sky.
LOTS of folks who post videos on youtube, can't do that. When I started I couldn't do that!
That's changed over 3 years of FPV and 1000's of hours of sim time for me.
@Plur307 Exactly right, I spent weeks learning acro with FPV Freerider to the point where I didn't have to think about how to maneuver the craft, my thumbs did it automatically, only then did I start flying acro with a real quad, a Kingkong 90GT like 2.5 years ago now.
First flight lasted 30 seconds because I got too ambitious too quickly and tried to do a flip :D
@@licensetodrive9930 2 months with a transmitter and my computer before I decided to put my first quad in the air and it still took me years and thousands of hours to get as good today as I have become, even 2 years in and a hundred hours in the sim, I was garbage.
My youtube channel has my videos back to my first race ever! I go back to understand how far I've come, and I send newer pilots who watch me fly today to my youtube channel to show them that it really is that hard at first!
@fellstar My RUclips channel is similar to yours in that it's a history of my flight capability, from the first year GPS quad footage and then on to FPV with a Syma X5C clone with an AIO camera on, then a Kingkong 90GT, other Kingkong's and to my current level with Emax Hawk & Mobula 6.
Have to say, your Mobula 6 flying is super smooth, I'm not a racer I just like the freestyle/exploration aspect of FPV, being free from the ground to explore areas in a way that nothing else can.
The way I explain acro vs angle to my friends is by comparing degree/sec with degree.
On angle you pitch forward and with each mm you move the stick, the drone pitches by a certain degree.
Meanwhile on Acro you pitch forward and with each mm you move the stick, the quad rotates at a faster rate of deg/sec.
Example on angle: Stick is pitched fully forward, the quad flies at a steady 45° forward.
On Acro: Stick is pitched fully forward and the quad rotates at 1000°/sec
everything is calculus
This was one of the last beginner concepts that I was struggling with understanding. I would always find myself using pitch as a constant way to adjust speed and I just came back to this video to say that it has helped me so much! I have felt myself improving on my 4 packs a day. Thank you Bardwell!
In a bank you are trading vertical component of lift for horizontal component of lift and to maintain level flight need to pitch up. Whether a drone or RC fixed wing or full scale aircraft - Physics. Great video JB! Thank you
Joshua - this might have been the most helpful video if yours that I have ever seen. As a person trying to learn when I have a little free time and no one around me that knows anything about FPV flying I truly was struggling to learn how to fly...
The reasons for the sticks being in seemingly odd positions makes total sense once you isolate and demonstrate what is happening.
I have Liftoff and hot damn if what you said here isn't also happening for me! What a relief.
This hobby is a real pain in the rear most of the time compared to other RC hobbies! Worth it though but only if you are able to find answers to your current issues quickly and easily... FC's and flashing, setups, tuning, soldering skills, getting things "unbricked" on occasion, debugging of a build, there is just a lot of things a person needs to know to be successful in FPV - worth it though! Cheers Oh, and THANK YOU for what you do!
I think people think of flying in the same term of driving a land vehicle. You have friction slowing you down in the turns with a land vehicle. There is very little friction when you are flying. Therefore you have to pull back to use the air as you would the asphalt in a car. It’s a totally different way of driving. And all that is learned from stick time and crashes. Great video Josh!
I'm starting in fpv and this video changed my whole concept about fpv controller and now I'm starting to fly properly. thanks a lot.
Since I'm quarantined, I finally had time to break my DJI/angle habit and learn acro. Yesterday didn't go to well, but today i finally got it. Must have flown 20 packs on my tinyhawk today.
I'm doing the same thing. First time clicking it in to acro for more than a few seconds was today. Definitely an adjustment from flying fixed wing.
I got 7 2s batteries a garden and a tinyhawk s, every day 14 packs as training 😂
once you go acro you wont ever fly angle again... 1 more day and youll be there
ST4RDU5T same😂 I bought the tinyhawk 5 days ago and I’m flying it as much as I can, unfortunately I only have one battery
Honestly all of your videos are fantastic but this one in particular really helped me understand a ton. "don't think of it as forward and backward, think of it as faster and slower". That made it click so hard in my head.
Damn Mann you’re a legend I started practicing in the sim FPV air 2 three days ago and was struggling with going forward and turning and you upload this video explaining why I’ll say it again BLOODY LEGEND.
You’ve got new subscriber
Set up my DIY tiny whoop loops out back..glad I got into fpv now..i used pvc n hula hoops..oh n clear tape..added leds and diy lion Batt packs from laptop packs..im not bored I swear..you guys are getting us rc pilots good press....keep at em..
I've only flown my DJI quad 3 times so far, and this totally makes sense, especially after reading some of the wonderful comments. Thank you for the quick tutorial. You are one of my main go-to instructors on Quads and have been tremendously helpful. I don't have much time to fly but I watch tons of your videos all the time. I'm working on a computer build so I can start flying on a sim (my current computer is 16 years old) lol. I'm looking forward to this hobby as a form of relaxation in my off time. Thanks for all your work, it is very well appreciated.
Thank you so much for that explanation! You gave me an 'a ha' moment that really helped me figure out flying. I'm brand new to FPV, I don't even have a drone yet, but I've been following you and Steele, and stingy and the rotor riot guys for almost two years now and I just didn't think I had the knack for flying. I'm just working in simulators so I can really get the basics down before I invest in a good build, but I could not figure out what I was doing wrong about controlled/coordinated turns. Your explanation really helped me overcome that learning obstacle I was stuck on by reframing the way I think about pitch. I had all but given up but with this simple explanation of thinking of pitch as speed rather than forward and back it finally clicked for me. I can actually fly controllably now, instead of the controlled careening I was doing before as I over accelerated and overcompensated trying to keep all the axes in my head. Thank you so much. I'm gonna have to put in a lot of hours of practice to really get lock it down, but you got me back into flying after a couple months of frustration.
The trick to getting acro in your head is to remember the stick movements CORRECT (Change?) the current attitude. Let the sticks go to center with no maintained pressure (except throttle) and then "bump" a little forward pitch in, etc.
Don't fly in autolevel or you'll chase your tail for ages. Good Luck!
Its nice you still have the patience and capability to engage the completely new pilots. U rarely see that from veterans making videos. Well done bud. 👍
For a newbie yo FPV (just starting with SIM) this is amazing. I was so wondering why I can't fly properly straight, less so I need to counter for the tilt in turns. Thansk!
Thanks a lot for explaining the basic stuff, especially the combination of roll and yaw and how is it affected by roll as well
Hi Joshua - always enjoy your videos. I think that there is an aerodynamic principle here. As the quad (aeroplane, heli, glider etc) banks the wings (rotor or fixed ) produce less lift when compared to the horizontal left effect. As you demonstrated, the quad will sink if left unchecked, the back stick movement raises the nose and prevents the sink. You might find that to maintaining your speed you will also need to increase your throttle. So, to maintain speed and keep a constant altitude in a turn you use both pitch and throttle and the greater the bank the more inputs required. Cheers
i agrer with your thats what i wrote....
@film_pi_vox
0 seconds ago
but as you lose altitude wouldn't it make sens to raise the throttle and then lowering it a bit when you're out of the turn. by doing this you dont lose altitude but most important you dont lose speed by pitching back..
Thank you for posting this. I remember when I first started practicing Acro coming from Angle mode that this took a bit of time to figure out. And, I don't remember ever seeing this referenced in any of the how to videos I watched on RUclips talking about how to fly in Acro mode.
This little tip changed the way I fly significantly... as in, I don't face plant into the ground as much when turning. Thanks for making this video. :)
Fixed wing pilot here: You're using the same exact stick inputs to turn that I use. My nose wants to drop if I turn without pulling back on the pitch as well. If I use yaw only I get some different effects(Depending on the plane itt'l bank into the turn as if I had used roll anyway) but they all tend to drop the nose a bit unless I pull back on the pitch a scoche.
I never realized that I'm pitching backward when turning, until seeing this video. Had to go outside and verify, and behold, I'm pitching backward. One of these subconscious muscle memory moves...
If you wanna be super cool you can roll 90 degrees either direction and pitch back to turn, be careful though lol
It's like riding a bike. Really. Everyone does it by instinct and they've never been taught what they are doing. It might seem you just turn the handle bars in the direction they want to go, right? Not even close. It's a three step process. First turn briefly *opposite* of the direction you want to go, this makes you lean into the turn you want to make and then you can turn the handle bars in the desired direction. Try riding in a straight line and make a turn without the opposite waggle. It can't be done.
@@filalleva6231 Okay, this is getting interesting. I need to go verify that tonight 😁
@@filalleva6231 called counter steering
Thank you JB! I finally get it now.... I’ve been flying “angle mode” since I started, for years. Since I’m not the sharpest knife in the draw, I just couldn’t wrap my head around the physics of the way Acro reacts . You explained it perfectly with the use of ‘lift off’. I’m happy to report, not only did I learn something as always from your videos , this time I learned something HUGE! The lightbulb above my head finally lit up!! Id also like to thank you for giving me/us an awesome diversion from all of the depressing news on this crazy war we are all in. I hope You and your family are all doing well. Keep up the great work as always!
I play helicopter sims on the PC and almost all the physics of how a heli flies are transferable to kwads. Played the OG Gunship for years and you get it once you understand the basics. I gave myself 6 months to learn how to fly kwads when I 1st started and was finally happy in acro after about 3. Everything else from then on is just a learning curve on how to fly better.
Hi JB. Of all the great videos you put out and along with Rotor Riot THIS video alone was a pure "light bulb turning on" moment. Exactly the video I needed and explained so much. Great work and keep it up. P.S. love the fridge outro you've been doing ha ha ha 👍👍👍
2:28 is vital information for noobs
i worked it out but didn't really explore much into acro because I wasn't confident to pitch back
just started pitching back and it honestly feels like when you try to commit to a backflip irl...
committing to the fact that physics will work... and then getting confidence from it...
i'm 3 hours into simulation flying with a tbs tango 2.
just enjoying auto level flight mode at the moment...
That's given me an idea,
do a Rotor Riot episode trying to fly/race without pitching back (like electronically block it out on the transmitter so it's impossible) would be fun to watch pilots would have to do flips and other moves to fly.
Sure Vanover would ace it !
(this would obviously be post Corona)
Is vanover old enough for coronas yet?
How about a "no yaw" race? They'd have to learn a whole new way of turning corners.
@@Croznyj why use an artificial horizon when you have a real horizon? If you can't see the ground there's a major issue with your camera angle or your flying too high.
@@licensetodrive9930 1 stick flight is actually doable, set the throttle, bank and yank... half roll and pitch down, halfroll back.
@@spchips He will be by the time this whole thing is over.
Hi, it's not simultaneous yaw and roll which make the quad pitch down : it's different depending of which one dominates the other. If you roll faster than you yaw, yes you will fall in the turn and need to correct by pitching back, if you yaw faster than you roll then you slip out of the turn and need to correct by pitching forward.
Additionally, the exact balance point of rotation rate when one would start to dominate the other actually depends of the angle of the quad : at 45° forward you need the same rotation speed on both axis, but at lower angle you will need more yaw than roll (and reciprocally, at higher angle, more roll than yaw).
You can feel this by increasing your yaw rate : for the exact same stick position as before during a turn, you would find that you now have to correct by pitching up instead of down.
I agree with what you said about the balance of yaw vs roll. But I would say if you yaw too much and end up needing to pitch forward to correct, then you failed to correctly coordinate the turn. However, that is a cool trick you can do if you intend to exit the turn facing a different direction. For example, yaw "too much" to flatten out and then backflip away or something.
Thank you so much for this video, when I wasn't thinking I would do fine but the minute I turned to do better turns I would end up in the ground. This makes so much sense now.
Look at fixed wing principals of flight as a quad follows the same rules. Aircraft in level flight at a constant speed and power setting - lift = weight = equilibrium. Turn and some of your lifting power is being used to turn so less is left to maintain height and therefore the nose sinks. So in a fixed wing aircraft when turning you apply some back pressure on the stick to increase the angle of attack of the wing and generate the additional lift required to maintain height. 👍🏻
Jushua! THANKS A LOT! Sorry for capslock, but now i can finally turn where i want in liftoff. I was already pissed of, but now i hit the freaking gates!
Bardwells ability to make something simple complicated is unparalleled. Even though Ive been flying for a few months now I have never really thought about the things you brought up in this video.
Acro and Camera angle. Once you get the camera angle nailed you hardly have to pitch forward, unless you need to go regain more speed out of trick moves etc or gain more speed in straight lines. Back pitch more before turns and obstacles to avoid overshoot and crashing into stuff. Informative as usual JB.
Been watching tons of your videos and this one makes it all click!!! Thanks for the info! Every learning to fly acro video should tell people this!!! Thank you so much!!
I got a DJI Mini 3 Pro a few weeks ago, mostly for photography. I've been having a lot of fun with it and love the pics and videos and my new view of the world. The RUclips rabbit hole lead me to FPV videos and I now have an interest in possibly getting started with flying FPV quads (not with the DJI, clearly). I decided the smartest route, before buying a second copter, was to use the Sims to learn the controls (I'm a long time video gamer, which hasn't really helped in learning to fly). I came across this video last night and this evening I decided "no time like the present to start learning." (I also registered for the PI class to study for my 107). I'd bought a Zorro ELRS for playing sims (and future potential flying). I'd set my Zorro to be self centering and had been practicing in Zephyr. I un-did that the self-centering throttle and started in Drone Racing League. Through the tutorial and my first race (ug, that went poorly) and first freestyle (futuristic city), I kept feeling "these controls are still pretty much like the DJI, it's nothing like what Bardwell described." So I looked again. I switched the Level from Beginner to Pro (without damage) and then moved to a less-busy freestyle level (aircraft boneyard), and NOW I completely understand what I saw in this video. I'll be practicing for FPV starting here. Thanks for this video so I knew what flying FPV SHOULD kind of look like on the sticks and helping me pre-understand some of how the sticks interact. I'd imagined going through the various "levels" on DRL would be helpful, but for my goals I really need to start learning in Pro - Beginner and Intermediate just a waste of muscle memory.
Update: I'm kind of loving flying in Tryp. I remember those first flights struggling with the controls and the first time I mostly circled the blimp a couple times at a somewhat consistent altitude. And then flights telling myself "pitch forward," which felt so awkward at first. While I'm no freestyle expert and I cannot yet rock the races, I feel completely comfortable flying all around the Tryp maps, making lots of gaps, flying between trees, etc. I've seen huge progress in the last two weeks with a small amount of daily sim time (30-60+ minutes -- more since I got Tryp). This is the video that started me off - Thanks!
The answer is a single word: Acro.
Which is only short for acrobatics which I as an oldschool-heli guy (thug life clip playing right now... ;D) would call aerobatics anyway.
But I guess Aero as a mode just doesn't sound that cool. ^^
I hope my comment doesn't detract too much from Joshua's excellent explanation, I like boiling things down to their core, my English teachers at school hated that about my work.
I would have laughed so hard if he started out with "Why don't FPV pilots pitch foward so much? Because acro." then did a mic drop & thug life music moment :)
@@licensetodrive9930 ;D
I was about to say, he could've made this a 5 second video - him just saying "They fly acro".
Oh yeah acrobatic mode is fun
When I first started flying I kept flying straight into the ground and it just wasn’t clicking, I happened across this video and the concept of pulling back during turns was a revelation!
noted, roll becomes pitch when you yaw......🤔....why didn't I think of that, thanx JB....🤘😎👍
This video sums up how I crashed my first build last week.
After hovering my brand new first build for two minutes (happily) - I wanted to feel it accelerate forward. So I sharply pitched forward and instead of accelerating forward, I pitched head over heels VERY FAST into the pavement (luckily the battery took most of the impact).
Apparently, the drone that I learned to fly on was in angle mode (I didn't realize that until now).
And now I understand the difference between angle and acro mode :\
7:50 I think a more accurate reason is because a turn is an acceleration. But rather than accelerating forward by pitching forward, you want to accelerate into the turn, pushing away from the center of rotation.
To counter act momentum or since you are moving, you have to counteract the effective centrifugal force fron your frame of reference by pitching back to stop moving forward and pitching sideways to accelerate towards the point of rotation.
That is 100% correct. To turn, you have to direct thrust normal to the tangent of the circle. Hmm.... maybe not normal.... because you need forward thrust too.
Thanks Josh, just started out and my first three hours of simulator were hopeless as I could not figure thiso ut by myself. Cheers!
Now this has answered my question on why i can't turn perfectly. Now I've learned something 😂
This helped me loads - I was “steering” with the right stick all the time 😱
I had become incredibly frustrated 😩
Good info, I'm just learning, thumbs up.👍I've only been flying acro fpv for two days now. Lift Off was godsend to get the feel before flying for real.
This is going to help me so much in the simulators.I knew I was doing something wrong, but couldn't figure it out. Thank you for this
Thank you Joshua! Your video has improved my noobie flying, much appreciated!
I've been super frustrated flying in the sim the last couple of days! This all makes sense now. Thanks.
great explanation thank you !
after you Yaw and roll --> youre enter a pitch forward position.
I'm new to this world, everytime i saw Joshua video, I surely can learn something important, new and good to me, thx Joshua
"Adjust, not maintain" is unbelievably helpful
Camera angle also plays a large roll in how extreme these effects are, I find. Since I fly with 0 camera angle I end up pitching back a lot, even in snap turns. Which was contrary to some advice I had seen in doing snap turns. But when I finally got a hang of turning while inverted and I noticed I was pitching forward during tight turns out finally dawned on me what was happening, because just trying to think about how the combined effects of pitching and rolling work is very difficult until you see it in action.
Yeah, I was thinking about the same. The more angle you got on the cam, the more you pitch forward in the turns. Applies more to the racers, tho ^_^
please increase the angle toner least 20
I hope Liftoff sponsored this video, because I bought it just to fly around your house. Not in a weird stalker way, just to fly where I see you test and review drones. :)
This explains why I am having a lot of trouble as a new pilot, when in acro mode I can’t help but go faster and faster until I lose control.
Thankyou JB, thats put some perspective on my flying in liftoff, ive found myself pitching back more than forward but was having some issues with getting myself too low to the ground and crashing, altho it was fine on other areas of the track. NOW i get it why these things are happening. great explanation. cheers bro!
I usually associate pitch with the nose of the quad and yaw with the tail end of the quad for a new pilots or pilots coming from 2-3 channel airplanes.Using pitch to adjust the nose in forward flight will adjust your speed like Joshua said. And mixing yaw, roll, and pitch back will give you the nice “flat” turn in toward flight, essentially keeping the “tail” of the quad level.
Omg I wondered why my learning progress wasn’t going anywhere thank you so much
excellent question! I notice I do not use pitch that much at all! Thanks!
damn this changes everything! I have only just started out in Liftoff and I was wondering why I was going so fast when trying to turn. Thank baby cheeses for JB 🎉👏👏👏
Thank you! Also had my "aha!" Moment. Be safe.
So question - is it safe to say that as you pitch forward then move the stick back to its neutral position the drone itself stays in that tilted position thus continues to move forward until you tilt the stick back which tilts the drone back thus slowing or stopping it?
I’ve been struggling because I thought you pitch forward and keep against the ground this makes so much sense
Hi Joshua, Great subject on pitching. As a beginner I use angle mode, but when I get scared in the wind, I freeze up and let go of the sticks, but now understand that the quad is automatically levelling itself, but when this happens and there is a sudden gust of wind my quad gets blown in the opposite direction. I have started using acro, based on your explanation I now understand it is probably safer to use acro in windy conditions as letting go of the throttle maintains current direction of movement so less likely to be blown off course by unexpected gusts of wind. Would be interested to know your view on this. Thanks again. I am another newby, who would have probably given up trying to get into fpv if it wasn't for your video tutorials over the last few years
Finally 😃I noticed the speeding up effect in turns also in my acro-efforts, but I thought I accidentally was pitching forward every time.
I’m gonna give this a try. Thnx 👍
Maybe I have a bad habit of holding my pitch forward as I fly. I guess I have it in my mind that if I pull back to center , I'll slow down. How do you think that effects my style? Good, bad, or normal?? Thx for all the vids. You have helped me a ton getting into this hobby . I'm still pretty fresh and I'm doing the 3 packs a day as well . More like 6 to 12 packs a day . You rock dude. Keep up the good work.
Holy guacamole this is exactly what I needed as a noob. Thank you, Joshua!
The opposite can also happen and I don't mean by flying backwards. If you adjust yae first then adjust roll to be horizontal again you will loose your initial pitch. But rolling first then adjusting yaw is more common when you are tilted forward because it is more intuative
You are Awsome at explaining. I had to fine tune my tunes, and you gave me a physics lesson that made it extremely educational. Thank you for putting this video together.
Reminds me of the old days of this channel! With the liftoff tutorials and discussions. Who remembers?
I'm from the OLD days of R/C (as in, my first radio was 27.195 MHz). I remember when channel mixing came around, and you could program to kick opposite rudder in a bank. Is anything similar done with quads, such as having yaw kick in when you pitch? My biggest trouble in sims seems to be balancing throttle, pitch, roll, yaw. For now, my real drones have altitude hold so I can at least get some flight time in...
Hey! New pilot here. I learned something today. Thanks for the video.
This is the video that earns my subscription, you just helped move forward in my fpv journey, the way you explained the right stick made soooooooooo much more sense than anything
This is a great video - I'm trying to get back into FPV after a few years away and so far have only really flown angle mode and I've been struggling with Liftoff! I feel like I'm all over the place in turns - gonna be mindful of this next time I try!
Thx. I understand rate mode now (learned something today!). Hey ... maybe shoulda titled it why rate mode FPV pilots don’t pitch fwd so much. I do almost all of my flying in horizon mode, BTW. Been playing with rate, but I am always flying through and among trees ... and I’ll stop an hover if I like the view. Easier in horizon than in rate.
I wish more people understand this:
In **level** or **angle** mode, stick deflection commands the desired pitch and roll.
In **acro** or **rate** mode, the stick deflection controls the RATE of change of pitch and roll, in radians or degrees per second if you will.
It is like the difference between position and velocity, or between gallons and gallons per minute.
Or for computer/gaming folks, it's the difference between a mouse/trackpad and a Joystick/Trackpoint.
@@curbynet Ah the old IBM/lenovo trackpoint! I always wondered how that compares to a joystick for FPS gaming lol
Or you may say: "In acro mode roll and pitch work the same way as yaw.". The easiest way to explain how acro mode works to someone who is using angle mode is to tell them his yaw command already is in acro mode.
Whether you have to constantly pitch backwards during the turns *or not* depends on (1) how much uncompensated roll input you produce compared to your current pitch angle when the pitch/camera angle is low and it depends on (2) how much uncompensated yaw input you produce compared to your current pitch angle when pitch/camera angle is high. In other words, if your camera angle is low then even smaller roll input is going to tilt the quadcopter more to the side than it was before tilted forward, meaning that after applying yaw (which will effectively transform your roll into new pitch) your new forward pitch is going to be higher than it was before turning - meaning you will have to correct it by inputting pitch backwards. It is very easy to visualize it (case 1) when analyzing what happens in the extreme case when starting forward pitch is zero and the quadcopter is level. In that case, after applying roll right the quadcopter and then yaw right to turn the front of the quadcopter in the direction of the tilt, the new forward pitch will increase from zero to whatever roll input was applied before yaw. Of course, the same happens in case of applying roll+yaw at the same time. On the other hand - if your camera angle is high and the camera is level, then by first applying yaw the quadcopter's front "climbs" towards the sky (if you apply 180 degree of yaw the quadcopter is going to even face the sky) and after you apply roll to "correct the horizon" the quadcopter's forward pitch is going to be lower than it was before. Again, to visualize that (case 2) we can analyze what happens in the extreme case when starting forward pitch is 90 degrees (impossible to fly at such a pitch but it doesn't matter). In that case, after applying yaw right and then roll right until the horizon becomes level, the new forward pitch will decrease from 90 degrees to some smaller angle which depends on how many degrees the quadcopter was rotated by applying yaw - meaning you will have to correct it by inputting pitch *forward* as some flying with high camera angles already noticed. For example, if the quadcopter was by applying yaw rotated by 90 degrees, then after applying roll (which will effectively transform your yaw into new 90° minus pitch) to level the horizon the new forward pitch is going to be zero and the quadcopter starting at 90 degrees forward pitch will after "the turn" become level. If the quadcopter was by applying yaw rotated by 45 degrees, then after applying roll to level the horizon the new forward pitch is going to be 45°. If the quadcopter was by applying yaw rotated by 25 degrees, then after applying roll to level the horizon the new forward pitch is going to be 65°. In other words, in that case (2) the yaw gets directly transformed into the pitch and since we measure the pitch from the angle when the horizon is level, the new pitch is going to be 90° - yaw [°] (90° minus how much degrees the quadcopter way rotated by applying yaw). However, in both - case (1) and case (2) - it *is* possible to make a turn without touching the pitch! The question is then why we are inputting the pitch (backwards or forward) when making turns. It is because it is very difficult to always coordinate yaw and roll inputs to the degree when pitch displacement cancels out so every pilot develops his own "strategy" by overshooting the pitch in one of the two possible directions and then compensates it by applying pitch. And yes, it is possible to even in the case (1) overshoot in such a way so you have to use pitch *forward* to compensate the pitch and it *is* possible to even in the case (2) overshoot in such a way so you have to use pitch *backwards* to compensate the pitch. But in the case (1) it is more likely you will overshoot in such a way you will have to use pitch backwards and in the case (2) it is more likely you will overshoot in such a way you will have to use pitch forward.
I ran some simulator tests using much higher camera angles, and the pitch stick was still back in all my turns. You're right that if you are pitched forward, then yaw, you'll flatten out. But that specific combination of inputs doesn't produce a thrust vector that results in a smooth turn.
To test the theory, I flew for about a half hour using no pitch at all. And the takeaway is that if you do that, you have to yaw one direction, then roll, then yaw back, to achieve a new pitch angle. The most efficient way to turn is to yaw and roll into the turn, and pitch back. I submit that any stick movement that involves pitch forward is less efficient and destabilizes the quad more.
@@JoshuaBardwell No doubt the most efficient way is to turn like a plane but the fact is turning without touching the pitch *is* possible. When turning without using the pitch the quadcopter rotates around the axis which is perpendicular to the Earth and with lower camera angles that looks as the quadcopter is hanging on the rope. It would be as if the plane would turn by using the rudder, the quadcopter in such a case moves as hockey puck on the ice. When the plane makes turn by half roll + pitch backwards (and by using the rudder not to lose the height) then the movement is similar as to if the plane would be tied to some fixed point by a rope. Another fact is, as I said, it is much more likely that when you are using very high camera angles, then you will overshoot the yaw over roll and that you will have to correct the mistake by applying pitch forward. Regarding "And the takeaway is that if you do that, you have to yaw one direction, then roll, then yaw back, to achieve a new pitch angle.", you can *always* achieve the same by using yaw then roll *or* yaw+roll at the same time (it is function composition). You can achieve the new pitch angle by only one pair of yaw and then roll but then you can't choose arbitrary turn angle *and* the new pitch at the same time because the new pitch is defined by the old pitch and the yaw rotation. But you can *always* turn without using the pitch and preserving the current pitch by applying precisely right ammount of yaw and precisely right ammount of roll in the same time. Of course, such a turns will be very wide (the radius will be large). BTW, do not think that I am one of those who disliked the video, I liked it becuse it is about the interesting topic. It is true everyone could fly the quadcopter without thinking about it but it is still interesting to analyze such things.
Fantastic video (as always), thanks a lot for your teaching, I learned something today !
Very good video and explanation. Although I basically knew that it worked this way (yeah I don't fly ACRO yet), this is a good explanation with visual reinforcement. Like the stick "overlay". Yeah that simulator does look like your place (I watch a lot of your videos). Thanks.
Love flying your yard, always sunny at JB's place
I've been flying fpv for five years now, but I don't think I've ever thought about this. Kinda mindblowing actually.
Awesome video.
Went out and flew 6 packs just consenting on it.
Never thought of it like that before.
Thanks.
Nice video. I think of it as It stays where you put it. Nitro helicopters were that way, no self corrections so you best not lose sight of it.
Interesting thing to note, as a racer with a generally higher angle (50°) I notice I actually do the opposite, I tend to pitch forward a little in tight turns.
I bet if we had a blackbox log, we would see that you pitch forward at the beginning of the turn, which puts your thrust vector more "outwards" so you can turn sharper. Then you complete the turn mostly using roll axis and pitch back to your cruise angle as you exit the turn. But I don't think anybody is turning while pitching forward throughout the whole turn. I just don't think the physics work that way.
You are right, see the detailed explanation in my comment.
Interesting. So for quads, yaw isn't actually a heading changer like it is typically with regular helicopters or airplanes. Good to know.
Excellent demonstration. Thanks Joshua
Light bulb moment!! No, I didnt know that. Yes, I learnt lots today! Thank you JB!
I describe it as Settings an Attitude. Its rotor-wing pilot terminology and directly applies here.
AoA Angle of Attack pitch
Outstanding tutorial Josh! Can we have more?
Can you explain the "camera angle" setting in Beta Flight. How does it affect flight if at all?
The more camera tilt you have the more your roll and yaw axis seem to mix together from the point of view of the camera. If you have 45 degree camera angle and you do a pure roll, it will appear like you did a mixed roll and yaw. The camera angle option in betaflight adds compensation for this. So if you set the angle in betaflight to 45 degrees and try to roll, it will automatically input the yaw you would need to make it appear like you are rolling from the camera's point of view. I have been flying for 5 years and never use this feature. I think it does more harm than good.
@@Plur307 i agree. i think it looks smoother, and more natural without it
it mixes roll and yaw so that from your camera's perspective, the controls match what you'd expect to see if your camera was set to 0 degrees. Most pilots don't fly with this, although I imagine a few pilots flying at very high angles might have some application for it. It messes with how you expect the quad to behave.
here is a old video from him talking about it. ruclips.net/video/gEcWxHIH378/видео.html
@@jpsalis I don't like it because sometimes I lift my goggles and fly line of sight as well. Trying to fly line of sight with camera tilt compensation would be very difficult. There have been a few times where I lost video mid flight and was able to quickly lift my goggles and fly the quad back to me by line of sight.
HA! I'm only 6 hours deep on DRL Sim and this video makes me ask, why so many people fly in acro mode (Edit: Oops, meant stabilization mode, I’m still learning the lingo)? TY Joshua, I was only looking for info on RemoteID for my airplanes and now I'm into quad racing! In the very near future, I will have to click on one of your affiliate links.
As a beginner flying indoors (and on sims), angle mode (stabilised mode / autolevel mode) it is far more intuitive.
I am now learning acro / rate mode, and this video helped a lot.
@@c00p3rm4n I used angle mode for my first couple hours. I was laughing at first because pro mode seemed completely impossible, I’d tumble about and crash.
This video simultaneously blew my mind and made me feel stupid.
Great video and I definitely learned something today! 👍
Very much as in rc or real plane, ailerone banks craft and pitching back pulls the craft round the turn rudder/yaw balancing the turn ?
but when I want hover, stop in the air my cinewhoop, its good idea to use micro movement on my stick.. pitch up, down ,up, down??
great explanation, thanks. which gimbal angle are you flying and why?
I learnt something today. How good does liftoff look? Silky smooth. Off to the PC for some flying for me 👍😎🇦🇺
To be fair, this is max settings on a 1080ti.
I took me a while to realize that pitching forward did not really make me go faster as much as it made me go faster towards the ground. That to go faster I needed to go up on the left stick and back on the right stick. The hardest part in going from a camera drone was to quit pitching forward (down). Thanks for graphical example JB.
It's just like changing lanes in a car. Do you hold the steering wheel left for a prolonged time or enough to change course? I don't advice holding the steering wheel. ;)