Kyle Rainer actually feels much more appropriate as a Green Lantern than Hal, really. His powers are based on imagination, so being an artist makes sense. Meanwhile, all Hal would do was generate big fists, which is really boring when you have a weapon that can MAKE ANYTHING. If DC wants a guy who can punch dudes, they have a million other people for that. Rainer actually emphasizes what's unique about the GL powers, which is great.
Well, imagination gives it shape while willpower gives it substance. And willpower was supposedly Hal's deal. He was supposed to be a cool-nerved, iron-willed fighter pilot type of guy. Personally, I prefer Kyle because I find him more relatable but that's me.
Most of the GL Corps are ex military or law enforcement, fearless characters with an iron will. While this gave them strong constructs it also had a significant weakness, one that wasn't understood until Kyle Rayner became a lantern; the color Yellow. It turned out that while every other lantern felt no fear, Kyle Rayner did but worked hard to overcome it. That acceptance of fear made him the first lantern to not be affected by yellow. This willingness to feel, coupled with his imagination and focus makes him The Best lantern, with the only contender being the likes of Nero, a schizophrenic artist given a yellow lantern ring. Some years ago, Kyle Rayner even started training to use each lantern ring. After mastering all of them he inadvertently created a White lantern ring able to harness all of the emotional spectrum(minus death.) something which the Gaurdians believed should have killed him. Kyle may be the most powerful but honestly, he's also the most human of the bunch.
The real irony is, let's all admit it, as much as Kyle got screwed over, H.E.A.T. "winning" was the best thing to ever happen to Green Lantern. The series became a lot more high profile, it lead to good stories and a much more expanded mythos that made it into literally every adaptation since and is still in play in the comics to this day.
Kyle was my favorite Lantern and JLA member. But I didn't start reading super hero comics until the mid 90s so he was the only GL I knew of for a while. Plus, I saw a lot of myself in him.
John Stewart is pretty much the green lantern I am most used to thanks to the justice league cartoon I grew up with. Kyle Rainer and Hal Jordan feel a bit weird to me as the main Green Lanterns.
BiscuitHead Especially since their last attempt at Space Cops,The Manhunters,wiped out several sectors,and indirectly caused the Red Lantern Corp to be formed
Honestly Kyle Rayner sounds like the perfect Green Lantern. The powers of a green lantern is to create whatever they can imagine with their ring, and who's more creative than a artist? Seriously artist and Green Lantern go as well together as peanut butter and jelly.
I kind of wish he did as many 90s-related videos, especially comic ones, that would start with that explanation and transition into "And then...the 90s happened."
I want to see that because that story in it of itself is convoluted as all hell. I like his stuff is weird but his comics are weird are always the best.
I was seven or eight when they pulled this shit and remembered being pissed off about Hal Jordan committing global genocide. I have to admit, I didn't relate to him--or any other superhero--politically, and I can't recall owning a single Green Lantern solo story at the time, but he was featured in the Justice League and I had a couple reprints of the Green Arrow team-ups. My point is that I can understand the reaction. If Hal Jordan simply died, I would have been fine with it. I'm fine with Blue Beetle's death, even if I like Ted Kord much more than his replacement, but imagine if one of your favorite heroes became a mass murderer and then stuck around as a crazed villain, amassing a body count much higher than those he saved? It was just 90's bullshit, and I can't really fault nerds for being upset about it.
+Brian C I was around your same age at the time and more or less had the same knowledge of the character and i just LOVED the Emerald Twilight arc , Hal losing eveything he was fighting for just because the plot of a villian who had no connection to him was pretty terrifying, the scene where he tries to recreate the entire city and his family and friends was so fucked up, and looking back it kinda makes sense, the power rings can basically make everything and if someone goes trough a traumatic experience like that and had the power to make a "everything its okay" fantasy come true it would be really hard to not snap and go in a rampage, also the arc introduced the only interesting GL: Kyle Ryner, i really hate how they half assed the "Hal jordan is a villain now" , the birth of the "woman in the fridge" trope and geoff jons saying "it was possesed he didn mean too" stuff though, but as an impressionable 90s kid it has a lot of nostalgia attached to it and still has some good stuff in there.
I never thought of Parallax as such a huge hit, I started reading the comic in the 2000nds so I missed much of the fandom. To me it was just that I liked Hal Jordan, Kyle is cool as well though.
I love the mythos description before 1:30, and really wish that they had kept that as the mythos instead of introducing the color spectrum idea -- I think the spectrum idea causes more fundamental problems than it solves. I also like how they kept that consistent when they shifted over to Kyle, but 'enhanced' Kyle by removing the yellow weakness.
That's not the way I remember it. Sales for Green Lantern were not great, until Hal became Parallax and Kyle became the new GL. For several years the Kyle Rayner's comics sold much better than the Hal Jordan comics. I will admit that those issues when a young Hal Jordan returned helped sales go up. Sales only went south once Judd Winnick started writing Kyle Rayner. I also remember Wizard running polls trying to figure out which GL was more popular, and it was always close to a tie. There was also the issue that because of Crisis shenanigans, Hal Jordan wasn't entirely rebooted in '86 (because they wanted the hard-travelling heroes stuff to remain in-continuity) , so he (and Green Arrow) was much older (explaining the grey hair) than the other big names like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. Replacing the Golden Age stalwart, with a more hip, younger version had happened once already: when Wally West replaced Barry Allen. Then, of course, Geoff Johns brought back Hal Jordan (and later Barry Allen) making it the best selling title for DC... but that's a different story. Still, DC wasn't able to remove Kyle Rayner, or Wally West, and not for lack of trying. Rayner and West may not have something like H.E.A.T. to back them up, but they do have their fans.
How big was the fan-hate for the new direction of Green Lantern? Even I knew about it before Bob discussed it in this video. (I'm usually very out-of-touch with these things) That's how big it was.
huh, most of the time I'm happy I never got into comics and I'm happy just getting the best and the worst parts from the internets. But sometimes I wonder, what it must have been like as a kid seeing this happening in real time.
One good thing about the Evil Hal Jordan story arch. His costume was not a 90s EXTREME crapfest outfit, but was extremely sleek and well design. Hell of a lot better than Kyle Rainer's kinda-meh outfit. Other than that... yyyyyeah, it was a mess.
OH GOD NO Listen, to be as civil about this as possible, the whole Mass Effect controversy is so blown over the top that it actually makes H.E.A.T. seem reasonable by comparison. I mean, at least the guys in H.E.A.T. didn't make FCC Trade Commission filings because they didn't like what DC did to Hal. It saddens me to see people who are all like "Oh, woe is me, those last 10 minutes of ME3 have somehow instantly ruined three of the best games to come out in the past 10 years".
I got in a flame war because I said it wasn't creative that they made the green lantern Black. It was my fault for not saying the 90's superman cartoon and the the JLA cartoon that shared the same continuity. In 90's superman its guy gardener then in the JLA cartoon that shares the same continuity its Jon Stewart. I was a black kid so I was black super hero sweet but I never read the comics so I was like wtf happened to the white green lantern.
I guess this is why manga seems to outsell comics. The artists and writers in japan... well most of them anyways aren't afraid to stick with their original ideas and their stories. I mean don't get me wrong, pleasing the fans is one thing but catering to the bitchy is a WHOLE different story.
It would have been avesome if they had made a comic where the protaginist is evil im really tired of heros so good that they fart rainbows because thats uselly their only caracthar trait
god you know your life is wasted and pointless when...i mean yeah i rag on movies now a days for being mostly crap but that is because it is becoming a tool of greed and corporate numbing down of creativity and expression, this was just one of a many ridiculous and unrealistic plot points and series twists that comics of all types and genre's are known for. seriously how many times has an entire planet, hero etc. been killed only to be resurrected after, from some convenient plot point?
im surprised the biggest campaign pf fan boy pissing and complaining was done over green lantern ud think it be superman or batman or one of the female characters
So... the green lantern's girlfriend gets unwillingly turned into a super villainess and nobody gave a crap. But as soon as the green latern, WILLINGLY, turns into a villian (In order to refresh things a little) every fanboy goes on a rampage? What sense does that make!
I thought having Hal turn evil was a great movie. I think it's a shame they pussied out and retconned it. They should have left him bad and had john Stewart take over as the main GL.
I really liked Hal going nut and being replace. I hated his return to being green lantern it felt like a giant step backwards. I liked Hal until then. He had moved on from gl and parallax to being the avenging hand of good as the spectre. It's like watch a pro go back to play college ball cause fan missed him. Hal fans tell tell me I should read more gl. I've read most golden age to present. Hal was a good gl he could have been a great Spectre.
Original Parallax was a great idea and gave depth to an otherwise shallow character; Rebirth is a huge pile of badly written fanwanking turd. Fandom immaturity is why risky ideas rarely happen and even more rarely remain unchanged in superhero comics. That and, in DC's case, shitty golden/silver age nostalgia.
Kyle Rainer actually feels much more appropriate as a Green Lantern than Hal, really. His powers are based on imagination, so being an artist makes sense. Meanwhile, all Hal would do was generate big fists, which is really boring when you have a weapon that can MAKE ANYTHING. If DC wants a guy who can punch dudes, they have a million other people for that. Rainer actually emphasizes what's unique about the GL powers, which is great.
Well, imagination gives it shape while willpower gives it substance. And willpower was supposedly Hal's deal. He was supposed to be a cool-nerved, iron-willed fighter pilot type of guy. Personally, I prefer Kyle because I find him more relatable but that's me.
I never cared for Hal and preferred all the other Green Lanterns. Hal's just underwhelming to me.
Most of the GL Corps are ex military or law enforcement, fearless characters with an iron will. While this gave them strong constructs it also had a significant weakness, one that wasn't understood until Kyle Rayner became a lantern; the color Yellow. It turned out that while every other lantern felt no fear, Kyle Rayner did but worked hard to overcome it. That acceptance of fear made him the first lantern to not be affected by yellow. This willingness to feel, coupled with his imagination and focus makes him The Best lantern, with the only contender being the likes of Nero, a schizophrenic artist given a yellow lantern ring. Some years ago, Kyle Rayner even started training to use each lantern ring. After mastering all of them he inadvertently created a White lantern ring able to harness all of the emotional spectrum(minus death.) something which the Gaurdians believed should have killed him.
Kyle may be the most powerful but honestly, he's also the most human of the bunch.
The real irony is, let's all admit it, as much as Kyle got screwed over, H.E.A.T. "winning" was the best thing to ever happen to Green Lantern. The series became a lot more high profile, it lead to good stories and a much more expanded mythos that made it into literally every adaptation since and is still in play in the comics to this day.
Kyle was my favorite Lantern and JLA member. But I didn't start reading super hero comics until the mid 90s so he was the only GL I knew of for a while. Plus, I saw a lot of myself in him.
John Stewart is pretty much the green lantern I am most used to thanks to the justice league cartoon I grew up with. Kyle Rainer and Hal Jordan feel a bit weird to me as the main Green Lanterns.
"I'm sure the movie will fill in the details"
SOMETHING TELLS ME THIS WAS MADE BEFORE THE MOVIE.
I think it's bullshit that the Space Smurfs get to boss the Space Cops around.
BiscuitHead Especially since their last attempt at Space Cops,The Manhunters,wiped out several sectors,and indirectly caused the Red Lantern Corp to be formed
Thanks Sinestro.
Honestly Kyle Rayner sounds like the perfect Green Lantern. The powers of a green lantern is to create whatever they can imagine with their ring, and who's more creative than a artist? Seriously artist and Green Lantern go as well together as peanut butter and jelly.
I kind of wish he did as many 90s-related videos, especially comic ones, that would start with that explanation and transition into "And then...the 90s happened."
Should've made the movie with John Stewart since a lot of millenials grew up with the JL Unlimited GL
Hal Jordan must HATE The Simpsons.
Going Green sounds like the slogan for buying a Prius
New green lantern replacing the old sounds like a good idea to me might give it a try
If this was on TV I would watch it everytime it's on...
I want to see that because that story in it of itself is convoluted as all hell. I like his stuff is weird but his comics are weird are always the best.
The ending of Mass Effect 3 was no where near as bad as turning a beloved hero of three decades into a villain for a stupid reason.
I was seven or eight when they pulled this shit and remembered being pissed off about Hal Jordan committing global genocide. I have to admit, I didn't relate to him--or any other superhero--politically, and I can't recall owning a single Green Lantern solo story at the time, but he was featured in the Justice League and I had a couple reprints of the Green Arrow team-ups. My point is that I can understand the reaction. If Hal Jordan simply died, I would have been fine with it. I'm fine with Blue Beetle's death, even if I like Ted Kord much more than his replacement, but imagine if one of your favorite heroes became a mass murderer and then stuck around as a crazed villain, amassing a body count much higher than those he saved? It was just 90's bullshit, and I can't really fault nerds for being upset about it.
+Brian C You CAN fault them for death threats, however.
+Brian C I was around your same age at the time and more or less had the same knowledge of the character and i just LOVED the Emerald Twilight arc , Hal losing eveything he was fighting for just because the plot of a villian who had no connection to him was pretty terrifying, the scene where he tries to recreate the entire city and his family and friends was so fucked up, and looking back it kinda makes sense, the power rings can basically make everything and if someone goes trough a traumatic experience like that and had the power to make a "everything its okay" fantasy come true it would be really hard to not snap and go in a rampage, also the arc introduced the only interesting GL: Kyle Ryner, i really hate how they half assed the "Hal jordan is a villain now" , the birth of the "woman in the fridge" trope and geoff jons saying "it was possesed he didn mean too" stuff though, but as an impressionable 90s kid it has a lot of nostalgia attached to it and still has some good stuff in there.
I guess my question is more of where does the line get drawn?
I had no idea HEAT existed till today but I wonder how they stack up against the Snyder Cut folks 😂
Imagine how some people would have reacted when it was revealed that Kyle is half mexican (unless that's been retconned)
Well, the reactions to Captain America's Irish heritage probably are a good place to start looking for similarities. And hilarities.
ranwolf76 It was, don't know why. I guess it was'nt that big of a thing since there was almost absolutely no reaction to it.
OMG 30Minutes of Bob at one time WITHOUT Clicking, Yes
watching the Big Picture series backwards is fun!
Has he done the death of superman episode yet because I really want to see that.
I never thought of Parallax as such a huge hit, I started reading the comic in the 2000nds so I missed much of the fandom. To me it was just that I liked Hal Jordan, Kyle is cool as well though.
Isn't almost every thing these days is view as poltical I mean some people viewed freaking 300 as a allegory for the war on terrisom I'm not kidding
It was written by Frank Miller...
Reminder that a subplot for Ranier's run as Green Lantern was his friend being gay. So it was political
That other time... 3 years later
"DC should just bite the bullet and shove all their superhero movies into one continuity..."
Ha. Haha. Haahahaha.
Goddammit.
Man, remember back in 2011 when DC's shared animated universes were the gold standard?
Ahh yes... HEAT. The Comicsgate of the 90s.
"This got ugly, and it got ugly in a big way"
So any experts on H.E.A.T., I'm not that familiar with them, worse than Comics Gate, better or same?
HEAT: Proof fandom has always been hell.
It's either Hal Jordan or no one at all for me personally
Gooooooooooood, this was before the movie
It already exists. Its called Retake Mass Effect.
I love the mythos description before 1:30, and really wish that they had kept that as the mythos instead of introducing the color spectrum idea -- I think the spectrum idea causes more fundamental problems than it solves.
I also like how they kept that consistent when they shifted over to Kyle, but 'enhanced' Kyle by removing the yellow weakness.
That's not the way I remember it. Sales for Green Lantern were not great, until Hal became Parallax and Kyle became the new GL. For several years the Kyle Rayner's comics sold much better than the Hal Jordan comics. I will admit that those issues when a young Hal Jordan returned helped sales go up. Sales only went south once Judd Winnick started writing Kyle Rayner. I also remember Wizard running polls trying to figure out which GL was more popular, and it was always close to a tie. There was also the issue that because of Crisis shenanigans, Hal Jordan wasn't entirely rebooted in '86 (because they wanted the hard-travelling heroes stuff to remain in-continuity) , so he (and Green Arrow) was much older (explaining the grey hair) than the other big names like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc.
Replacing the Golden Age stalwart, with a more hip, younger version had happened once already: when Wally West replaced Barry Allen.
Then, of course, Geoff Johns brought back Hal Jordan (and later Barry Allen) making it the best selling title for DC... but that's a different story. Still, DC wasn't able to remove Kyle Rayner, or Wally West, and not for lack of trying. Rayner and West may not have something like H.E.A.T. to back them up, but they do have their fans.
ever heard of sir. arthur conan doyle
he was chained to sherlock and he created the first fan fiction fanbase
How big was the fan-hate for the new direction of Green Lantern?
Even I knew about it before Bob discussed it in this video. (I'm usually very out-of-touch with these things)
That's how big it was.
I like the new green lantern hes still just as much of a good guy as hale or hal however you spell it.
Should imagine when Man of steel comes out, that will be the time to discuss Death of superman storyline :)
huh, most of the time I'm happy I never got into comics and I'm happy just getting the best and the worst parts from the internets.
But sometimes I wonder, what it must have been like as a kid seeing this happening in real time.
basically hal jordan is the anikin skywalker of green lantern
So Yazhee > Green Lantern Corp?
i have read a comic where hal jordan died by a mutant shark
The one true Green Lantern is Guy Gardner I think we all can agree to that right?
One good thing about the Evil Hal Jordan story arch. His costume was not a 90s EXTREME crapfest outfit, but was extremely sleek and well design. Hell of a lot better than Kyle Rainer's kinda-meh outfit. Other than that... yyyyyeah, it was a mess.
...I didn't mind the Sinestro thing...
OH GOD NO
Listen, to be as civil about this as possible, the whole Mass Effect controversy is so blown over the top that it actually makes H.E.A.T. seem reasonable by comparison. I mean, at least the guys in H.E.A.T. didn't make FCC Trade Commission filings because they didn't like what DC did to Hal.
It saddens me to see people who are all like "Oh, woe is me, those last 10 minutes of ME3 have somehow instantly ruined three of the best games to come out in the past 10 years".
M.E.A.T. - Mass Effect Action Team
I got in a flame war because I said it wasn't creative that they made the green lantern Black. It was my fault for not saying the 90's superman cartoon and the the JLA cartoon that shared the same continuity. In 90's superman its guy gardener then in the JLA cartoon that shares the same continuity its Jon Stewart. I was a black kid so I was black super hero sweet but I never read the comics so I was like wtf happened to the white green lantern.
One word, Deadpool.
Do they do this on purpose to get people interested and buy the comic? I am reminded by the Lobo new 52 debacle.
Lobo
Mass
Effect
Ending
Action
Team
or M.E.E.A.T
I know someone who watched Justice League/Justice League Unlimited
I like GL Rayner.
Sounds alot like the Retake ME3 Movement that is going on now, which I am all for because the endings were shit.
I guess this is why manga seems to outsell comics. The artists and writers in japan... well most of them anyways aren't afraid to stick with their original ideas and their stories. I mean don't get me wrong, pleasing the fans is one thing but catering to the bitchy is a WHOLE different story.
wow... when money talks, it eliminates creativity... hence Green Lantern's and Mass Effect's twists and the backlash of pppl who fell entitled
Until Retake Mass Effect 3's ending came!!
See its shit like this that makes it really hard to argue to my mom were not all fantasy obsessed nuts /sigh
I always liked kyle rayner
Oh god no! Please no! Not again!
Pssst... look at his recent video about this topic.
I never rllly got into Mass Effect, bcuz i never played so for knowledge, why do they need a H. E. A. T.
Not yet, but I hope its more enjoyable than the snarky video done by the son of John Landis.
Hmm... Didn't organized fan raging bring Sherlock Holmes back from the dead?
It would have been avesome if they had made a comic where the protaginist is evil im really tired of heros so good that they fart rainbows because thats uselly their only caracthar trait
Wow. so it's basically the same controversy as anything Marvel is putting out.
god you know your life is wasted and pointless when...i mean yeah i rag on movies now a days for being mostly crap but that is because it is becoming a tool of greed and corporate numbing down of creativity and expression, this was just one of a many ridiculous and unrealistic plot points and series twists that comics of all types and genre's are known for. seriously how many times has an entire planet, hero etc. been killed only to be resurrected after, from some convenient plot point?
im surprised the biggest campaign pf fan boy pissing and complaining was done over green lantern ud think it be superman or batman or one of the female characters
So... the green lantern's girlfriend gets unwillingly turned into a super villainess and nobody gave a crap. But as soon as the green latern, WILLINGLY, turns into a villian (In order to refresh things a little) every fanboy goes on a rampage? What sense does that make!
I thought having Hal turn evil was a great movie. I think it's a shame they pussied out and retconned it. They should have left him bad and had john Stewart take over as the main GL.
The 90's don't sucC
realy XD
The nineties did not suck. I grew up with lots of things from the nineties and I'm not sorry.
I think the green lantern movie could have been ok without the horrible casting
I really liked Hal going nut and being replace. I hated his return to being green lantern it felt like a giant step backwards. I liked Hal until then. He had moved on from gl and parallax to being the avenging hand of good as the spectre. It's like watch a pro go back to play college ball cause fan missed him. Hal fans tell tell me I should read more gl. I've read most golden age to present. Hal was a good gl he could have been a great Spectre.
Original Parallax was a great idea and gave depth to an otherwise shallow character; Rebirth is a huge pile of badly written fanwanking turd.
Fandom immaturity is why risky ideas rarely happen and even more rarely remain unchanged in superhero comics. That and, in DC's case, shitty golden/silver age nostalgia.
First
I think Lucasfilm should learn from this, Reinstate Luke as the One who Revived the Jedi Order, not Rey.