The Rooster - That's an incredibly stupid argument, bud. Just because a weapon can handle stuff like this and still function doesn't mean that it doesn't do damage and drastically accelerate wear and tear of the moving mechanical parts. I mean do you honestly think that dirt and sand rubbing between metal parts has no effect on them? Have you never used sand paper in your life? Your analogy is akin to saying that a race car that's built to handle 9000 rpms around the track can do so all day every day with no more consequence than daily trips to the grocery store because that's what it was designed for, and that's just asinine. If that were the case then race teams wouldn't have to constantly rebuild their engines (and brakes, and suspension, and tires, and literally every other part of the car that get's torn up from being pushed to its limits). The reason that military-grade weapons like this are designed to fire after being caked in mud is to get the operator home alive, not make sure that his gun is in resalable condition upon returning from the battlefield. Just be glad that Tim does this for us at his own expense so that we can all see what the weapons we trust with our lives can really do when pushed to their limits and hope that he offers full disclosure to any potential buyers so they understand what they're actually getting, which are heavily used and abused guns that have literally been through torture testing procedures.
One thing I really like about his testing is the inclusion of the clean out and lube method to bring the gun back to normal operating conditions. This helps to demonstrate the areas and issues the gun is having under torture test.
Once again your dedication to running just a few more tests is what makes your Military Arms Channel the best. Most guys would have headed back home in that nasty cold. Thanks.
I think a AR15 vs SCAR vs AK vs MCX torture test all done at the same time would be pretty epic and informative. Get as few variables as possible, and may the best rifle win!
+Joe Forti Better wait until spring though. Cold and wet is a very bad combination that not only is uncomfortable but may also cause accidents and mishaps. Testing four rifles like this would take a long time and the cold would make it seem even longer...
Broke my heart watching you do that. As a retired Army range officer I would have rinsed the gun after the first insult. That gritting sound was like fingernails on a blackboard. In a tactical situation you hold the weapon over your head. BTW I own an MCX and love it.
MAC I hope SIG is taking notes from your torture test. I really want to love this gun. I haven't bought one yet and may hold off now till a "Gen 2" comes out. It does indeed show some promise and I like that SIG is going outside the realm of just normal AR and AK variants. Thanks for the torture test and Happy New Year!
I think the gun is more sensitive to linear recoil dampening than it is water or mud particulates. When you were testing the weapon directly after dunking it, you were firing from the hip rather than the shoulder. Since it uses the ar-180 style duel recoil spring system, it may be more vulnerable to the rifle version of limp wristing. Without a solid platform (the shoulder) to recoil against and allow the bolt carrier to go all the way rearward against before returning forward - it's short stroking. My guess is, were you to attempt bump firing the gun, you'd have identical function issues, for the same reason. When you fired the gun properly from the shoulder, even after directly dunking and pressing the bolt carrier group into the mud by hand, the weapon fired, ejected and fed fine, the only function problem being the hold open.
You make a good point honestly. But I just think it's just junk overall. There is a reason the AR-15 we know and love was chosen out of all of Stoners prototypes as the final product. The thing just does everything it was meant to do and it's a tank.
+Mrgunsngear Channel Ok? It was stopped by being wet, not even submerged, just wet, Id say thats pretty damn far from ok. Sig has lost it, Im sorry to say this but they have, that was unacceptable for a premium rifle.
be hoe est I love both of their channels and in general respect their opinions very much, but in this case I just could not agree with them based on what I saw, if I had bought this rifle for 1500 dollars and it did that Id be very upset. There is a small chance the gas block may not be aligned properly and the gas pressure isnt right, so maybe its just this particular rifle, but that was not "ok" at all...
Gold medal winner of the Olympic gun cleaning event. Super informative torture videos showing how and why mags fail, how slight bolt velocity variances effects round ejection and pick up, ect. But above all how to diagnose what's going on. Thanks MAC.
And direct from the operators manual... instructions on where to lubricate. Because its not a DI, it needs lube along the guide rods, bolt pivot and key points on bolt carrier. I'd suggest either use wet lube in normal climates or dry lube in dusty climates. Graphite powder would be perfect. Remember, looks like an AR, but where it matters, its not an AR, so adjust your thinking accordingly
@@TheAverageShooter Not to his defense, why would he wash the BCG off in the pond when he literally suspected (& made a comment on) how the water was the issue. He just babbles. Without lube, the gun won't run. Water creates friction.
@@DEATH_TO_TYRANTS FN and HK are the apple of the gun world. Pretty looking products with an expensive name where equivalents can be had for half the price.
almost bought this until I saw this video thanks for getting muddy so I don't waste my money lol, if its not more accurate or more reliable what is the purpose of this rifle?
SkintSNIPER262 maybe, but I think Lucas bought it a long time ago when it first came out. Probably has the new parts to replace the old parts SIG issued a recall on.
+Tuck234 I've been doing a bunch of research this past hour... Sig has seemed to fixed a lot of the issues. They made upgrade parts to the GEN 1, and now there's a GEN 2. I would assume they are reliable since many police and SWAT like groups around the world have selected the MCX.
Thank you for beating the crap out of your guns to bring us this info. I have to admit, aside from the cold, it does look fun! These torture tests are some of my favorite vids.
I hear that they updated the bolt and stuff. Sig even made a promo/montage video of it in 2018, including a "standard NATO mud test". So before anyone in the future comes here and calls this gun an unreliable piece of junk, Sig did update and improve the gun, giving it a new bolt thingy and all that. I'm only here because there is no other torture test video like this one I can find on the newer MCX that isn't a video made by Sig.
@@RomantikongGinoo nothing will ever beat a Kalashnikov, but the revisions due help. Personally I would use the MCX due to how light it is, making it easier to run away from hordes, as well as it's comparability with mpx attachments Of course an ak would still be better.
+UziNineMillomeetah I agree, it's a very sharp looking rifle. Yeah, it was brutal... I really should get water proof gloves when I do this in the winter. :)
Happy New Year! I have been watching your channel now for quite a few years and I have to say it is by far my favorite you tube channel! Thank you for the many hours of great gun t.v.!!!! P.S. My favorite ar is the ruger sr 556 c there is not a SINGLE torture test vid on it, I would truly appreciate it if you did a torture test on the ruger sr 556!!!!
Love the MCX, Sig did everything right from the start... except... for the stock. Its great, but it belongs on a PDW, not a rifle. A side folding MOE would be more appropriate.
Ever going to do a torture test on any of your BCMs? See how a high quality AR DI system does as compared to this SIG piston system or the IWI long stroke?
I love comments about how "unreliable" this gun is, as though people will be stomping their rifles into mudholes on the regular at the range. Barring an unfortunate tumble into the slop, or it falling off a truck into a muddy road, I don't think that even a military weapon would see this type of abuse. Now we need a 556xi torture video! :D
Kevin Sanderson, I’ve got 18 years in the service and despite best efforts, the environment finds its way into weapon systems. Sometimes concealment comes with draw backs but it’s better than the open. So, it does matter.
I don't think the mud is inside the bcg system but rather the gas plug/piston cup. The gas regulator flipped to the right means "adverse" conditions and it should allow more gas to go back to clear whatever jam is in there.
Love watching the torture test videos but that ocd kicks in when seeing those poor beautiful tools tossed into mad and what have you. Still awesome, keep it up.
In my opinion the MCX performed excellent and a suspect the results may have been even better if you had used your shoulder when test firing instead of hip fire. Notice how every time you used your shoulder the gun ran longer. The extra rigidity of your shoulder could have helped with the short stroking.
+Chad L. I was thinking the very same thing watching the video. While it did have failures, it seem to just barely be failing at times. Granted shooting "from the hip" should not be an issue regardless, it just needed at little more of its own recoil to get into battery. I also wonder how it would have done had it been lubricated before the test. It is a nice rifle overall and this test would not deter me from buying one. It is very high on the want list.
+Average Enthusiast Yes indeed although Tim doesn't think the shoulder would have helped. I really enjoyed the video and after already owning the MPX (SBR pending) the MCX is very high on my list as well.
+Justin Gruwell I agree I know he did the Colt vs dirt awhile ago but that particular puddle seems to kill guns easily. I think that puddle would shut down the Tavor completely. Might have to go back to the SGL-31 at that point MAC. You should have just kept the G19 and the SGL-31 in your rotation LOL.
Hey Tim, since the springs are in the action and can get debris in them, would it be possible that the water and tiny grit that accumulates on each coil would effectively shorten the amount that the springs can compact? That would explain the hold-open not working, I suppose.
+Military Arms Channel nice torture test. I haven't seen you do a torture test on any of the LWRC products. It would be nice to see if any of the LWRC rifles can go through Indiana's gritty mud and other test that you may put it through. Happy New Years
+Jordan Winkler (a.k.a. FX Hummel) Hey Jordan, with all of your experience and voiced opinions on this rifle, I'd really like to hear your thoughts of these results.
+duvaldrummer Just like MAC said, didn't do great or horrible. I've shot mine alot in various conditions, and haven't had the issues from this video, but I wasn't torture testing it either, just training. I have shot it alot in the rain, with no problems, but that isn't the same as submersion like in this video. All guns will fail if pushed hard enough, and i think it's good that there were no catastrophic failures from this torture test
+Jordan Winkler (a.k.a. FX Hummel) Glad to hear yours holds up to rain. I have been thinking about getting one of these after watching your videos, but living in Missouri and seeing it doesn't hold up to water to well kinda made me start wondering. Realistically if it can live through rain I would say it should be fine.
+Jordan Winkler (a.k.a. FX Hummel) jordan , when watching your few reviews on this rifle you praised It verry high , called it you favorite and "go to" rifle even so it's weird to hear you say its "ok" , or has your opinion just changed since those videos
i may be writing this prematurely since I'm only halfway through the video, but if you're worried about bolt velocity why dont you shoulder it as well?
I was curious and decided to replicate the test- being in hot, swampy south florida, it wasn't hard. Since the rifle was obtained (traded a Tavor) for the purpose of working in such environments while being more accurate than the former, I decided to get dirty, as intended. Ran just fine, no issues- even managed to jam scrub, sawgrass, sand, silt and mud in with the mags and it ran well. Still, a solid test on Tim's part. There's a reason multiple and separate trials/experiments are conducted, and can often yield different results. The key is to throw all that data together and reach a conclusion.
I'm using Ballistol to clean and lubricate my two 92fs And i think the MCX passed the Torture Test just OK till fine. I mean your torture tests are always really extreme and until now i didn't see one single video a gun perfectly pass your tests.
those G I mags do they have a plastic or metal follower the old plastic ones are shit used the plastic ones on the old sa80 A1 they caused a lot of feeding problems with the rifle then when we got the A2 those mags had a metal follower 100 percent inprovment use p mags 30 E now
+uk spartan You can put new followers and springs in the USGI mags, but why invest in them even more? I would rather spend $12 on a PMAG and call it a day. It's a superior mag in every regard. I keep the USGI's around for testing only.
+Military Arms Channel fair one m8 you probably no this but when you are using those USGI mags for testing purposes If you get that stoppage with the rounds tilting in the mag just shake the mag tends to reline the rounds but those mags are shit lol
+Military Arms Channel I know a few guys that had served in Iraq and they were resistant to using Pmags because they are "plastic" and would trust good old steel, citing plastics can crack and be useless while metal can only bend and be fine...I still don't understand the logic even today as they resist using "plastic" mags
+Excalibur01 USGI mags are aluminum, not steel. HK mags are the only common (lol) steel AR mags out there. I honestly don't understand how someone could trust those flimsy USGI pieces of crap over a pmag. Seriously pmags just feel so much more solid than the aluminum ones.
It's a very old school mentality. The Marines I know had joined up in early 2000s. At the time, metal mags is all they know and just like with Glocks, introducing a non metal gear that used to be metal makes people worry about it because there's still the mindset that it is "plastic"
At 10:11 when you threw it back into the mud you left the dust cover open, likely drowning the bolt with mud and water, also going down into the mag so it's not the same as previous torture runs where the cover was closed.
I really enjoyed this video and although it performed "okay" I still want to buy an MCX as it's just a cool rifle. MAC can you perform a test by submerging the MCX in clean water? That is, without the silt or mud element? I'm just curious if it was the water or the dirt particles that caused all those failures. Also, could you do the same dirt-mags test like you did with the AK and AR? Thanks!
+Military Arms Channel Awesome test. I love the channel and videos. You know, maybe it doesn't impact anything, but could the piston system toward the front be allowing any particulate matter into the rifle that might affect it, as well? Maybe it has nothing at all to do with it, but I couldn't help but wonder as I watched if that may've affected something. Looking forward to the next tests and future videos!!
Verfügenichtüberdienötigekreativität Ah, if you want to play it like that then china was the first to invent the rifle, so germany, usa, russia etc pretty much copied them. And no, they have similar characteristics like how the ar-10, m16 etc copied the STG-44. The Turkish MPT-76 is the ONLY rifle that has passed all 42 NATO tests.
dean yilmaz Again, they straight up copied the gas piston of the hk 416/417. I'm not saying it's a bad rifle, they did their homework on this thing, but it's nothing special and nothing really new.
This is meant to simulate military tests which are actually more abusive than these mud tests. Of course in any other situation you won't be throwing and stomping your gun into the mud.
+Optic64654 I don't know about right this second, but at least until recently we were engaged in counter drug operations in the jungles of South America and counter terror operations in the Philippines. And probably other areas we aren't ever told about.
+Henry Reed Hah, you havent seen some eastern European and Asian battlefields, mud up to your knees after a fresh rain, you get into a firefight in that and you got to squirm through that mud on your stomach just like the dry days, and you got to drag your weapon with you, and at the end of that crawling around is a firefight. Africa is even worse with their red mud, that stuff is basically clay and it cakes on in layers on everything. Dust, mud and rain are very common and unavoidable things on the battefield, in some places you will spend more time in bad to terrible conditions than in good, now the question is: how much do you want to be able to count on your weapon to work in those conditions?
+Military Arms Channel Please read link inform others "Assault Weapons Ban of 2015" Introduced 12-16-2015 www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/4269/text Read it to the end! Placing this into another bill which may pass will seal the deal-CAUTION!
The only time my rifle will ever touch the ground is when I die and drop it. But as I die I'll make one last attempt to throw it on the grass and not the mud.
This is one of the Contenders for the new Rifle of the German Army as a replacement for the G36 from 2019 on. I really hope that they will test this too here in Germany. And it would be interesting to see how the AUGA3/F90, SCAR-L and HK416A5 (the other contenders) do unter the same conditions. Really cool Vid!
tim, to open the gun more easily squeeze the upper and lower together. this takes pressure off of the little pin that keeps the upper and lower from wobbling. i have to do this on my MPX in order to take out the rear pin without a punch.
Thanks MAC, interesting reliability test. Nice rifle, not overly impressed with the reliability but seems like a well designed firearm overall. I think it suffers from AR-like tight tolerances and can't operate effectively with even small amounts of debris. Once you get some debris in a "sealed" AR type systems it will slow or totally shut the gun down.The AK is open and almost "invites" debris into the mechanism. Enough debris will shut an AK down, but it seems like AK malfunctions are more easily cleared to get the gun running again.
very interesting and informative video could u make a g3 torture test followed by a fn fal torture test if possible 10x man for ur efforts and happy new year
I have said it before and I will say it again: M16 was an ingenious design by people who had no idea what a rifle experiences on the battlefield, in a way its like a supercar on real world roads.
To anyone in 2021 eventually this was figured out. Sig was watching his mpx torture tests and since modified the tap system to function with water in it But these older models needed a couple shots to clear that system once water got in. Also ya mag issues here.
I wonder if a long stroke gas gun like the PWS, Sig 550, or (of course) the AK/Galil would run better with a water logged piston. I'd love to see you do a review and torture test on a PWS Mk1 Series rifle!! I've been between the PWS Mk116 and the Sig MCX as my next rifle for some time!
I do have one issue I've run into. After about 250 to 300 rounds the rail is burning hot. I can't find a good and sexy Key-mod rail cover solution. Thanks MAC keep up the good work from the boy's in Basra.
I think you did a very good job of showing us the shortcomings of this rifle I'll stick with the old system. It has less problems and any of the other problems that it does have I can just use one of the Aerospace type Coatings and that problem disappears
Great test. I've really enjoyed these torture tests. I really want to see how well a VZ58/2008 would work in that Indiana mud. Please, test one of those.
+Military Arms Channel Hmm, I see. I think it would do pretty decently with the bolt closed, which is how it would most likely be when dropped. That is why I wanted to see it tested. It is the rifle I'm most interested in, after all. Thanks for replying.
+Military Arms Channel I would like to see that as well. I criticized you before for the snow test, but I would like to see a proper, comparable test of the gun, even with unfavorable results.
Thnx Mac another great video ! This one of the rifles i have been looking at for my usual tax time buying spree. Ihave a old swat classic that is bullet proof reliable and i love other then god awful waight wise! But after that i got away from sig .I was not feeling the new stuff coming out till now. Thanx again for the vid. Ps u should really do the testing in the summer lol
Nice gun. I have a gen 2 MPX and love it. Putting it though the paces now. You should check out the gen 2. Some of the issues you complained about have been addressed such as ambidextrous charging handle. Might have to pick up a MCX to compliment the MPX.
Mac, you need to have a cameo with Ian and Carl on inrangetv (I saw your comments on full30) it would be great to see you and them really put some guns through the ringer.
I'm a little surprised, I thought it would run better wet. I can see the mud stopping it, but it should run wet. I can't wait to see Ian and Karl's video coming up with the AR. Will you be making a road trip to Arizona with your bullbups? That wold be cool. Also, I think their mud might be worse than yours.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Note to self: NEVER buy a used firearm from this guy!
John Darham "Slightly used"
Why not? He doesnt abuse them, he just uses them. If a gun is hurt by what he did in this video, I wouldnt want it anyways.
The Rooster - That's an incredibly stupid argument, bud. Just because a weapon can handle stuff like this and still function doesn't mean that it doesn't do damage and drastically accelerate wear and tear of the moving mechanical parts. I mean do you honestly think that dirt and sand rubbing between metal parts has no effect on them? Have you never used sand paper in your life? Your analogy is akin to saying that a race car that's built to handle 9000 rpms around the track can do so all day every day with no more consequence than daily trips to the grocery store because that's what it was designed for, and that's just asinine.
If that were the case then race teams wouldn't have to constantly rebuild their engines (and brakes, and suspension, and tires, and literally every other part of the car that get's torn up from being pushed to its limits). The reason that military-grade weapons like this are designed to fire after being caked in mud is to get the operator home alive, not make sure that his gun is in resalable condition upon returning from the battlefield. Just be glad that Tim does this for us at his own expense so that we can all see what the weapons we trust with our lives can really do when pushed to their limits and hope that he offers full disclosure to any potential buyers so they understand what they're actually getting, which are heavily used and abused guns that have literally been through torture testing procedures.
call armslist and have them ban his account.
"Scratch & Dent" Sale. LOL!
Every time you shouldered the rifle it was 100%
One thing I really like about his testing is the inclusion of the clean out and lube method to bring the gun back to normal operating conditions. This helps to demonstrate the areas and issues the gun is having under torture test.
Once again your dedication to running just a few more tests is what makes your Military Arms Channel the best. Most guys would have headed back home in that nasty cold. Thanks.
not to nit pick but to give a "dirty" rifle a fighting chance it needs to be shouldered!
I think a AR15 vs SCAR vs AK vs MCX torture test all done at the same time would be pretty epic and informative. Get as few variables as possible, and may the best rifle win!
+Joe Forti Better wait until spring though. Cold and wet is a very bad combination that not only is uncomfortable but may also cause accidents and mishaps. Testing four rifles like this would take a long time and the cold would make it seem even longer...
+Joe Forti go back and watch his KV13 torture test.....lol Nothng would live up to that other than some of his other AK's
+Joe Forti dont forget to test AR direct $ piston versions.
include an mr556 and that would bd awesome to see
+Edward Blackfield I'm curious if mac would do the pws mk116
It seems to work 100% when shouldered and fail from the hip. That could cause bolt velocity problems
But it shouldn’t tho ya dweeb
@@T20-c8fidk why he’s a dweeb. Guns actually require a fair amount of resistance to function correctly. Some more than others.
@@T20-c8f wait, what? Limp wristing a pistol will make it misfunction, why would it be any different for a rifle?
Broke my heart watching you do that. As a retired Army range officer I would have rinsed the gun after the first insult. That gritting sound was like fingernails on a blackboard. In a tactical situation you hold the weapon over your head. BTW I own an MCX and love it.
It’s 2020. Can we get an update to this test?
@Slick why? thats a completely different rifle
@@frankernest3712 fucking hell ill just go wit a bcm they seem reasonable and they fucking work i can get one for around $1.2k so thats not bad
MAC I hope SIG is taking notes from your torture test. I really want to love this gun. I haven't bought one yet and may hold off now till a "Gen 2" comes out. It does indeed show some promise and I like that SIG is going outside the realm of just normal AR and AK variants. Thanks for the torture test and Happy New Year!
Mac, it pains my soul every time your torture an innocent weapon. #blackgunsmatter
Agreed. And that hashtag was ****ing hilarious!
Dustin Wyatt its a tool, it should work... this thing fails on many levels✌
It's a firearm not a weapon. Nothing is a weapon until you use it as one.
LOL ;-)
I think the gun is more sensitive to linear recoil dampening than it is water or mud particulates. When you were testing the weapon directly after dunking it, you were firing from the hip rather than the shoulder. Since it uses the ar-180 style duel recoil spring system, it may be more vulnerable to the rifle version of limp wristing.
Without a solid platform (the shoulder) to recoil against and allow the bolt carrier to go all the way rearward against before returning forward - it's short stroking.
My guess is, were you to attempt bump firing the gun, you'd have identical function issues, for the same reason.
When you fired the gun properly from the shoulder, even after directly dunking and pressing the bolt carrier group into the mud by hand, the weapon fired, ejected and fed fine, the only function problem being the hold open.
I fully agree
Not a bad theory.
totally agree.It's like limp-writing a pistol. or some gunk got into the last-piston
You make a good point honestly. But I just think it's just junk overall. There is a reason the AR-15 we know and love was chosen out of all of Stoners prototypes as the final product. The thing just does everything it was meant to do and it's a tank.
Agreed----it performed "okay" Thanks for the test!
+Mrgunsngear Channel Ok? It was stopped by being wet, not even submerged, just wet, Id say thats pretty damn far from ok. Sig has lost it, Im sorry to say this but they have, that was unacceptable for a premium rifle.
be hoe
est
I love both of their channels and in general respect their opinions very much, but in this case I just could not agree with them based on what I saw, if I had bought this rifle for 1500 dollars and it did that Id be very upset. There is a small chance the gas block may not be aligned properly and the gas pressure isnt right, so maybe its just this particular rifle, but that was not "ok" at all...
+BigChiefWiggles V I totally agree. I saw them for $1900 and i would be pissed if that happened to me!
It funny because with the hk vp9 he had failed with just water too but he was pissed instead of "it's okay"
It was designed to be suppressed maybe It will have better luck with the extra back pressure from a can.
Gold medal winner of the Olympic gun cleaning event. Super informative torture videos showing how and why mags fail, how slight bolt velocity variances effects round ejection and pick up, ect. But above all how to diagnose what's going on. Thanks MAC.
Cool test !
Directly from the Sig Sauer MCX web page: "No Matter the Conditions".
Lol, apparently not.
And direct from the operators manual... instructions on where to lubricate. Because its not a DI, it needs lube along the guide rods, bolt pivot and key points on bolt carrier. I'd suggest either use wet lube in normal climates or dry lube in dusty climates. Graphite powder would be perfect. Remember, looks like an AR, but where it matters, its not an AR, so adjust your thinking accordingly
@@TheAverageShooter Not to his defense, why would he wash the BCG off in the pond when he literally suspected (& made a comment on) how the water was the issue. He just babbles. Without lube, the gun won't run. Water creates friction.
@@ScottSohn
Bye Felicia
Meh...I'd rather just stick with a DI rifle.
I'd like to see Rob Ski from AKOU get a hold of this gun...I know it won't do well, lol.
I would really like to see you do this with the FN SCAR 16/17
it never jammed watch this ruclips.net/video/uS4uR_7ym6c/видео.html
Fuck the Scar. Fuck FN. Fuck all the idiots who buy that overpriced gun.
There, I said it. Damn that felt good to get off my chest.
Florida Man In true Florida Man fashion, speaking truth to reality
Those FN scars are very reliable rifles....but damn they cost a pretty penny.
@@DEATH_TO_TYRANTS FN and HK are the apple of the gun world. Pretty looking products with an expensive name where equivalents can be had for half the price.
Your voice when you do videos is really soft spoken. You're like the Bob Ross of gun reviews.
almost bought this until I saw this video thanks for getting muddy so I don't waste my money lol, if its not more accurate or more reliable what is the purpose of this rifle?
Could you repost anymore of the same comments you moron...
Lucas Botkin from TRex Arms seems to like it and he runs his guns really hard. ruclips.net/video/-aQt9xOXYMs/видео.html
+tuck234 maybe it's a +v2 version? Possibly Sig has fixed these issues by now?
SkintSNIPER262 maybe, but I think Lucas bought it a long time ago when it first came out. Probably has the new parts to replace the old parts SIG issued a recall on.
+Tuck234 I've been doing a bunch of research this past hour... Sig has seemed to fixed a lot of the issues. They made upgrade parts to the GEN 1, and now there's a GEN 2. I would assume they are reliable since many police and SWAT like groups around the world have selected the MCX.
Thank you for beating the crap out of your guns to bring us this info. I have to admit, aside from the cold, it does look fun! These torture tests are some of my favorite vids.
"The wife is going to kill me!"
Hey with a gun that unreliable, that is a definite possibility.
😁😂🤣
I love the torture tests! Keepem coming. And company can tailor a test to highlight performance. This is real world. Thanks MAC.
I still want one....
Water caused to fail but it seems that by cleaning it with water you got it back working..?
I hear that they updated the bolt and stuff. Sig even made a promo/montage video of it in 2018, including a "standard NATO mud test". So before anyone in the future comes here and calls this gun an unreliable piece of junk, Sig did update and improve the gun, giving it a new bolt thingy and all that. I'm only here because there is no other torture test video like this one I can find on the newer MCX that isn't a video made by Sig.
lmfao lol this is a toy for grown ups and not a weapon for war, welp in short in when the apocalypse come do not even think to pick this gun
@@RomantikongGinoo nothing will ever beat a Kalashnikov, but the revisions due help. Personally I would use the MCX due to how light it is, making it easier to run away from hordes, as well as it's comparability with mpx attachments
Of course an ak would still be better.
@@RomantikongGinoo Well dumbbell the MCX heavy is now on tge verge of full adoption.
The MCX isn't something I drool over, but the features it implements is what gets me excited.
Beautiful rifle. Looks like a cold day out too!
+UziNineMillomeetah I agree, it's a very sharp looking rifle. Yeah, it was brutal... I really should get water proof gloves when I do this in the winter. :)
+Military Arms Channel I would also recommend a zippo (or two) hand warmer. They are really good!
Happy New Year! I have been watching your channel now for quite a few years and I have to say it is by far my favorite you tube channel! Thank you for the many hours of great gun t.v.!!!! P.S. My favorite ar is the ruger sr 556 c there is not a SINGLE torture test vid on it, I would truly appreciate it if you did a torture test on the ruger sr 556!!!!
Love the MCX, Sig did everything right from the start... except... for the stock. Its great, but it belongs on a PDW, not a rifle. A side folding MOE would be more appropriate.
I am loving the torture test. Keep them coming.
Ever going to do a torture test on any of your BCMs? See how a high quality AR DI system does as compared to this SIG piston system or the IWI long stroke?
Im so glad you made this video.
I love comments about how "unreliable" this gun is, as though people will be stomping their rifles into mudholes on the regular at the range. Barring an unfortunate tumble into the slop, or it falling off a truck into a muddy road, I don't think that even a military weapon would see this type of abuse.
Now we need a 556xi torture video! :D
Kevin Sanderson, I’ve got 18 years in the service and despite best efforts, the environment finds its way into weapon systems. Sometimes concealment comes with draw backs but it’s better than the open. So, it does matter.
I don't think the mud is inside the bcg system but rather the gas plug/piston cup. The gas regulator flipped to the right means "adverse" conditions and it should allow more gas to go back to clear whatever jam is in there.
Lancer L5awm. best magazines in the world. period
Love watching the torture test videos but that ocd kicks in when seeing those poor beautiful tools tossed into mad and what have you. Still awesome, keep it up.
In my opinion the MCX performed excellent and a suspect the results may have been even better if you had used your shoulder when test firing instead of hip fire. Notice how every time you used your shoulder the gun ran longer. The extra rigidity of your shoulder could have helped with the short stroking.
+Chad L. The shoulder makes no difference. However, I would agree the gun did better than I expected.
+Chad L. I was thinking the very same thing watching the video. While it did have failures, it seem to just barely be failing at times. Granted shooting "from the hip" should not be an issue regardless, it just needed at little more of its own recoil to get into battery. I also wonder how it would have done had it been lubricated before the test. It is a nice rifle overall and this test would not deter me from buying one. It is very high on the want list.
+Average Enthusiast Yes indeed although Tim doesn't think the shoulder would have helped. I really enjoyed the video and after already owning the MPX (SBR pending) the MCX is very high on my list as well.
+Justin Gruwell I think that would be a good contrasting video too
+Justin Gruwell I agree I know he did the Colt vs dirt awhile ago but that particular puddle seems to kill guns easily. I think that puddle would shut down the Tavor completely. Might have to go back to the SGL-31 at that point MAC. You should have just kept the G19 and the SGL-31 in your rotation LOL.
Had plans on buying this next, and not going to now. Thank you so much for doing this, very much appreciated. Happy New Year!
The problem was you were limp wristing the rifle. Juuuust kidding.
+Adam Bleech I knew it! :)
That's what I was thinking.
Tavor torture test seems like a must do now. Thanks for putting your valuables through hell for my enjoyment! Happy New Years to you!
MR 556 from Heckler and Koch.
+hag12100 AK no such problems.
+horn410
Sometimes...
LWRC
The chosen 1 Which carbine/rifle?
+horn410 no such accuracy either
MAC's mud pit should become part of all Military trials. If a firearm can survive the pit, it can handle anything!
Hey Tim, since the springs are in the action and can get debris in them, would it be possible that the water and tiny grit that accumulates on each coil would effectively shorten the amount that the springs can compact?
That would explain the hold-open not working, I suppose.
+Military Arms Channel nice torture test. I haven't seen you do a torture test on any of the LWRC products. It would be nice to see if any of the LWRC rifles can go through Indiana's gritty mud and other test that you may put it through. Happy New Years
Great vid, but I'd be concerned if I thought rain could cause my rifle to malfunction.
this is a good torture test i wish every channel did this good of a torture test
thanks for the video
+Jordan Winkler (a.k.a. FX Hummel) Hey Jordan, with all of your experience and voiced opinions on this rifle, I'd really like to hear your thoughts of these results.
+duvaldrummer Just like MAC said, didn't do great or horrible. I've shot mine alot in various conditions, and haven't had the issues from this video, but I wasn't torture testing it either, just training. I have shot it alot in the rain, with no problems, but that isn't the same as submersion like in this video. All guns will fail if pushed hard enough, and i think it's good that there were no catastrophic failures from this torture test
+Jordan Winkler (a.k.a. FX Hummel) Glad to hear yours holds up to rain. I have been thinking about getting one of these after watching your videos, but living in Missouri and seeing it doesn't hold up to water to well kinda made me start wondering. Realistically if it can live through rain I would say it should be fine.
Jordan Winkler (a.k.a. FX Hummel) Appreciate the insight!
+Jordan Winkler (a.k.a. FX Hummel) jordan , when watching your few reviews on this rifle you praised It verry high , called it you favorite and "go to" rifle even so it's weird to hear you say its "ok" , or has your opinion just changed since those videos
Fantastic testing! Thank you for subjecting your rifle to the torture for all of our benefit!
i may be writing this prematurely since I'm only halfway through the video, but if you're worried about bolt velocity why dont you shoulder it as well?
canava2009 because it might blow up and you want the rifle as far away from your face as possible if that happened
Just subscribed thanks for the work...I've been looking to buy the mcx and your reviews def help. You seem to be one of the better channels around.
Thank you and welcome!
I was curious and decided to replicate the test- being in hot, swampy south florida, it wasn't hard. Since the rifle was obtained (traded a Tavor) for the purpose of working in such environments while being more accurate than the former, I decided to get dirty, as intended.
Ran just fine, no issues- even managed to jam scrub, sawgrass, sand, silt and mud in with the mags and it ran well.
Still, a solid test on Tim's part. There's a reason multiple and separate trials/experiments are conducted, and can often yield different results. The key is to throw all that data together and reach a conclusion.
I'm using Ballistol to clean and lubricate my two 92fs
And i think the MCX passed the Torture Test just OK till fine. I mean your torture tests are always really extreme and until now i didn't see one single video a gun perfectly pass your tests.
those G I mags do they have a plastic or metal follower the old plastic ones are shit used the plastic ones on the old sa80 A1 they caused a lot of feeding problems with the rifle then when we got the A2 those mags had a metal follower 100 percent inprovment use p mags 30 E now
+uk spartan You can put new followers and springs in the USGI mags, but why invest in them even more? I would rather spend $12 on a PMAG and call it a day. It's a superior mag in every regard. I keep the USGI's around for testing only.
+Military Arms Channel fair one m8 you probably no this but when you are using those USGI mags for testing purposes If you get that stoppage with the rounds tilting in the mag just shake the mag tends to reline the rounds but those mags are shit lol
+Military Arms Channel I know a few guys that had served in Iraq and they were resistant to using Pmags because they are "plastic" and would trust good old steel, citing plastics can crack and be useless while metal can only bend and be fine...I still don't understand the logic even today as they resist using "plastic" mags
+Excalibur01 USGI mags are aluminum, not steel. HK mags are the only common (lol) steel AR mags out there. I honestly don't understand how someone could trust those flimsy USGI pieces of crap over a pmag. Seriously pmags just feel so much more solid than the aluminum ones.
It's a very old school mentality. The Marines I know had joined up in early 2000s. At the time, metal mags is all they know and just like with Glocks, introducing a non metal gear that used to be metal makes people worry about it because there's still the mindset that it is "plastic"
At 10:11 when you threw it back into the mud you left the dust cover open, likely drowning the bolt with mud and water, also going down into the mag so it's not the same as previous torture runs where the cover was closed.
I'd really like to see a H&K Mark.23 after reading about how much seals love them
@Old Soul 5 year old reply . I still want a Mk.23 5 years later.
Love this torture testing! Nobody else wants to!
I really enjoyed this video and although it performed "okay" I still want to buy an MCX as it's just a cool rifle. MAC can you perform a test by submerging the MCX in clean water? That is, without the silt or mud element? I'm just curious if it was the water or the dirt particles that caused all those failures. Also, could you do the same dirt-mags test like you did with the AK and AR? Thanks!
You'll like the MCX I believe. More tests are coming.
+Military Arms Channel Awesome test. I love the channel and videos. You know, maybe it doesn't impact anything, but could the piston system toward the front be allowing any particulate matter into the rifle that might affect it, as well? Maybe it has nothing at all to do with it, but I couldn't help but wonder as I watched if that may've affected something.
Looking forward to the next tests and future videos!!
The more beat up the gun the better. A pristine looking piece just ain't right. Good test
nothing still beats AK
love forever Turkish MPT -76.
dean yilmaz You mean the turkish ar-10 that copied the gas system of an hk417 ?
Verfügenichtüberdienötigekreativität Ah, if you want to play it like that then china was the first to invent the rifle, so germany, usa, russia etc pretty much copied them. And no, they have similar characteristics like how the ar-10, m16 etc copied the STG-44. The Turkish MPT-76 is the ONLY rifle that has passed all 42 NATO tests.
dean yilmaz Again, they straight up copied the gas piston of the hk 416/417. I'm not saying it's a bad rifle, they did their homework on this thing, but it's nothing special and nothing really new.
Verfügenichtüberdienötigekreativität No, the gas piston of the MPT -76 is similar but isnt the same as the hk416 or 417
Fishing with the military arms channel. I like it!
I think the lesson learned from these "tests" is simply DON'T THROW YOUR GUN ON THE GROUND
This is meant to simulate military tests which are actually more abusive than these mud tests. Of course in any other situation you won't be throwing and stomping your gun into the mud.
+Optic64654 I don't know about right this second, but at least until recently we were engaged in counter drug operations in the jungles of South America and counter terror operations in the Philippines. And probably other areas we aren't ever told about.
+Henry Reed Hah, you havent seen some eastern European and Asian battlefields, mud up to your knees after a fresh rain, you get into a firefight in that and you got to squirm through that mud on your stomach just like the dry days, and you got to drag your weapon with you, and at the end of that crawling around is a firefight. Africa is even worse with their red mud, that stuff is basically clay and it cakes on in layers on everything. Dust, mud and rain are very common and unavoidable things on the battefield, in some places you will spend more time in bad to terrible conditions than in good, now the question is: how much do you want to be able to count on your weapon to work in those conditions?
+Henry Reed I think the lesson you should have learned, is that much of the reality that others readily apprehend, will forever be out of your grasp.
Happy New Years Military Arms Channel!!!
So that sig commercial was complete bs.
Sheepdog actual exactly what I was 🤔😂
Thats where guns like the sg550 shine because you can set the gas system to adverse and it works just fine
I don't think I have ever felt sympathy for an inanimate object before.
Have your hands recovered from the frostbite?
+Larry Griffin I lost two fingers, but I'm good. :)
+Military Arms Channel Please read link inform others "Assault Weapons Ban of 2015" Introduced 12-16-2015
www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/4269/text
Read it to the end! Placing this into another bill which may pass will seal the deal-CAUTION!
+Military Arms Channel thank you for your sacrifices.
Hey Mac, glad you do these tests, it gives a guy a idea on how the weapon well work when used on a day to day basis.
+reaper grim Thank you, and thanks for watching.
The only time my rifle will ever touch the ground is when I die and drop it. But as I die I'll make one last attempt to throw it on the grass and not the mud.
This is one of the Contenders for the new Rifle of the German Army as a replacement for the G36 from 2019 on. I really hope that they will test this too here in Germany. And it would be interesting to see how the AUGA3/F90, SCAR-L and HK416A5 (the other contenders) do unter the same conditions. Really cool Vid!
Ian at inrangeTV killed the ak with some NASTY mud haha
tim, to open the gun more easily squeeze the upper and lower together. this takes pressure off of the little pin that keeps the upper and lower from wobbling. i have to do this on my MPX in order to take out the rear pin without a punch.
Thanks MAC, interesting reliability test. Nice rifle, not overly impressed with the reliability but seems like a well designed firearm overall. I think it suffers from AR-like tight tolerances and can't operate effectively with even small amounts of debris. Once you get some debris in a "sealed" AR type systems it will slow or totally shut the gun down.The AK is open and almost "invites" debris into the mechanism. Enough debris will shut an AK down, but it seems like AK malfunctions are more easily cleared to get the gun running again.
Awesome video Tim. Definitely helping me with my decision on the MCX
Great video as always MAC! Would really like to see a lot more torture test videos!
very interesting and informative video could u make a g3 torture test followed by a fn fal torture test if possible 10x man for ur efforts and happy new year
I always thought pistons were wayyyyy more reliable but you brought up some very interesting points.....
Great video. It was hard to watch, but nice to see you don’t mess around.
I don't think any firearm will survive that mud, nasty stuff. However, I would like to see more of these videos. Very entertaining. Thanks!
I have said it before and I will say it again: M16 was an ingenious design by people who had no idea what a rifle experiences on the battlefield, in a way its like a supercar on real world roads.
To anyone in 2021 eventually this was figured out. Sig was watching his mpx torture tests and since modified the tap system to function with water in it But these older models needed a couple shots to clear that system once water got in. Also ya mag issues here.
Keep these coming, a tavor test would be cool
Did some testing myself when I got one. Going to get rid of it it’ll be replaced with a POF rifle
Would love to see a series of torture test videos
just like this one with various guns like the mr556, scar, ar-15, ak, etc... Great video by the way!
I wonder if a long stroke gas gun like the PWS, Sig 550, or (of course) the AK/Galil would run better with a water logged piston. I'd love to see you do a review and torture test on a PWS Mk1 Series rifle!! I've been between the PWS Mk116 and the Sig MCX as my next rifle for some time!
What about an IWI Tavor torture test?
Very good review. That is what separates the range guns from fighting machines.
Thanks for the testing! Appreciate all you do and the great videos.
+Michael Collins Thank you for taking the time to watch them. :)
I do have one issue I've run into. After about 250 to 300 rounds the rail is burning hot. I can't find a good and sexy Key-mod rail cover solution. Thanks MAC keep up the good work from the boy's in Basra.
Try using a paintball barrel swab to get in the space where the recoil springs are.
M&p torture test! PLEASE. Every test I see on the M&P sucks. Your test seem realistic. Thank you
Will you be testing the Galil ACE rifle?
I think you did a very good job of showing us the shortcomings of this rifle I'll stick with the old system. It has less problems and any of the other problems that it does have I can just use one of the Aerospace type Coatings and that problem disappears
try the same test with the beretta arx-100... maybe the unique rifle with ak and hk 416, can run fluently in this conditions.
That Indiana mud kills everything, Jesus.
Great test. I've really enjoyed these torture tests. I really want to see how well a VZ58/2008 would work in that Indiana mud. Please, test one of those.
+Tyler York I don't think it would do well, I've choked them pretty easily in the past.
+Military Arms Channel Hmm, I see. I think it would do pretty decently with the bolt closed, which is how it would most likely be when dropped. That is why I wanted to see it tested. It is the rifle I'm most interested in, after all. Thanks for replying.
+Military Arms Channel I would like to see that as well. I criticized you before for the snow test, but I would like to see a proper, comparable test of the gun, even with unfavorable results.
I also thought that it was unfair. I would like to see a proper test.
+Tyler York Would agree a little. I havnt managed a singel stoppage in mine yet in 3 years and i have been doing all kinds of stuff with it.
Thnx Mac another great video ! This one of the rifles i have been looking at for my usual tax time buying spree. Ihave a old swat classic that is bullet proof reliable and i love other then god awful waight wise! But after that i got away from sig .I was not feeling the new stuff coming out till now. Thanx again for the vid. Ps u should really do the testing in the summer lol
+Megan & Steve Frost Yeah, those old 556's are tanks. I have the pistol with a brace and despite it's small size it weighs as much as a 20" AR.
Nice gun. I have a gen 2 MPX and love it. Putting it though the paces now. You should check out the gen 2. Some of the issues you complained about have been addressed such as ambidextrous charging handle. Might have to pick up a MCX to compliment the MPX.
I'd love to see you do a PWS video and test its piston system like this.
That's exactly what I need now. A torture test video from MAC! ^^
+bfgguns I'm glad I could brighten your New Years Eve a bit. Thank you for watching.
Mac, you need to have a cameo with Ian and Carl on inrangetv (I saw your comments on full30) it would be great to see you and them really put some guns through the ringer.
+101DeathJester We are working out the details. I do plan to travel to see them and do some collaboration videos.
I'm a little surprised, I thought it would run better wet. I can see the mud stopping it, but it should run wet. I can't wait to see Ian and Karl's video coming up with the AR. Will you be making a road trip to Arizona with your bullbups? That wold be cool. Also, I think their mud might be worse than yours.