The Tesla NACS (J3400) To CCS1 Adapter From A2Z EV Is Here, And I Speak With The CEO About It
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- I interview the CEO of A2Z EV, Amine Zitour, and company engineer/consultant, Matt Smith about the build quality and potential safety concerns about the company's NACS to CCS1 adapter.
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Order the NACS to CCS1 adapter from A2Z EV: shorturl.at/eDE79
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:42 The interview begins
04:15 Who is A2Z EV?
06:09 Amine explains the improvements he's made from the prototype to the final product
09:06 Matt explains the process he went through to improve the adapter
11:14 Amine and Matt explain how the adapter is constructed for safety
12:35 The higher power that the revised adapter can deliver
17:01 I ask Amine if he believes his adapter will be banned if it's not endorsed by the OEMs
19:29 I ask Amine about safety certification
21:10 Amine and Matt weigh in on Ford's announcement about offering free adapters
25:26 Matt offers his final points about the A2Z adapter
27:24 The wrapup
31:26 Outro
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Love to see a company trying to do no evil and actively trying to make great products!
Thank you Joshua, we appreciate your comment. We will keep working hard on providing and improving our products over time.
Love seeing these conversations. I will also say thank you, and because of your channel and Tesla opening up the supercharger network, I was comfortable enough and picking up my F150 lightning yesterday. Picked up and had installed the Emporia charger once again in light of your recommendation. Now I don’t feel like I’m giving anything up by purchasing a non-Tesla EV. Between the massive discounts on the Ford lightnings, and the fact that competing electric trucks are significantly more expensive, I feel like I got a steal and of course an amazing truck.
Very interesting. I drive a Model 3 so this isn’t a factor for me yet but used EVs are a thing and I can easily see me buying a used CCS EV down the line so I’ll be keeping an eye on this tech. It’s great that you’re covering this so early and Amine and Matt are ready to go with a product that appears quite impressive.
To boost A2Z sales, Amine could offer State of Charge subscribers a discount code when purchasing this adapter.
A big “thank you“ for being so open about the design process with attention as to how you are responding to constructive feedback and reiterating on the engineering of the adapter.
Too early for that. Per this video, Tom doesn't want to endorse this product until he's tested it thoroughly.
Thank you for your kind words. We are always transparent and we will always be. Actually, customers feedback is more than important as it allows us to understand what's best for them in terms of interoperability, ease of use and more.
As for a discount, for now, it is too early. We would like to remain fair towards our early adopters.
Good luck with GM. From announcement to availability and then implementation is measured in geologic time scales.
Great content as always Tom!
I knew the engineer was smart when he mentioned that he owned an Ioniq 6.
I think the engineer spilled the beens (Tesla)on who he works for when mentioning he have access to Tesla superchargers at his work place.
@@dushandesilva2595not necessarily. II’m sure all of the DCFC suppliers have NACS dispensers in development. In fact he mentioned that he had access to a 1000v charger with NACS port, so probably not Tesla.
@@dushandesilva2595 👋 Matt here! Not exactly - actually not sure if I spilled any beans proper ;) After all, Tesla isn't an EV charging company (primarily). In any case, there's absolutely no relationship between them and A2Z (in fact, I had to get permission, conditional on no association). Just trust that I deal with DC stations a *lot*, and constantly trying to make the experience better. NACS / J3400 is a huge deal and while the next year will be a bumpy transition, I hope we (both adapter makers & EV station companies) can make it as smooth as possible for drivers.
Yay! Should I mention my past 5 years driving & hacking a Model 3, or nah? :) Haha. I use the V2L on that Ioniq 6 all day every day, and it's the killer feature for the E-GMP platform for me. Tesla needs to catch up with V2L!
@@FalconFour Cool that you really are reading the comments here as Tom suggested you might. I definitely enjoyed the video, hope to see you on other videos or podcasts. I still don't think you spilled any beans and I don't think a Tesla employee would be driving an Ionic 6. But who knows? I'm about to purchase a GV60 in the next few days so I am anxiously awaiting news of when Hyundai/Kia/Genesis will get access to the supercharger network. Hey, here's a question maybe you CAN answer. Apparently EGMP cars will charge at 97kw on a magic dock right up to 80%. (The 97kw is limited by the 400->800 converter, not the battery.) By my calculation that means they will charge 10-80% in 32 minutes on a supercharger, pulling a constant 97kw the entire time. That's not 18 minutes but still faster than a lot of other cars. Does that sound right to you? Of course if 1000v superchargers ever appear then we'll get the 18 minutes, but who knows when that will happen.
Thanks, Tom, great follow-up video.
I got mine a few days ago and can’t wait to be able to is it. A2Z is a local company as well
Thanking you so much for the information. It is clear now
I received mine a few weeks ago and tested it today. Worked like a champ! Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I drive a lot and this opens up the road to me. I had a Tesla before the Lightning after hearing Tesla was opening up the network.
So no problems yesterday after Ford/Tesla opened up the chargers? I ordered one since the delivery date of my Ford adapter is Aug.
Could you imagine if companies supported older EV's with new replacement packs and tech (charger included) updates? Thats a crazy thought, i know. Glad these guys are at least making these adapters, maybe theyll set an example and start a revolution.
Thanks Amine and Matt for the deep dive on this adapter. It sounds like they're really doing the right thing in terms of robustness and safety. I've ordered on for my Ioniq 5, as I am sure that it will be a while before my manufacturer-supplied adapter arrives.
I have already received the preordered 2 adapters for my 2 F150 lightnings. Ready to use when network opens up. Ford will send me 2 more although i feel they will buy it from A2Z to keep up with demand. The adapterssems well made and come in a nice case. Ty Ameen and Matt.
I rolled the dice and bought one a while ago. It arrived yesterday and now I'll just wait to see what happens next 🤞🏿
This was a great podcast, it answered a lot of questions. I was glad to see them clarify support for 500a and 1000v. I would love for Tesla to test and approve these adapters, I wish that had been asked. Another question missed, could have asked if they have been contacted about supplying these adapters for Ford et al.
I have a Hyundai ioniq 5 Sel awd 2023. I definitely need one. Thanks for ur dedication & hard work. It is observed & appreciated.
Wyndmoor PA USA
Admittedly I was critical of A2Z at first as well. My concerns were everything mentioned here… unsafe ark flash if it were unplugged, and the use of the word approved*. If you can’t say who approved it, why advertise its approved?
I could slap approved on a firey bag of… yeah.
I did end up speaking to the CEO by phone, and his intentions seem very genuine in the market. But while we still don’t know which OEM’s will provide an adapter for free, it makes no sense to buy a 3rd party adapter from anyone.
I’m also sort of concerned with the amount of tech Tesla Has. Tom mentioned how some adapters are banned from CCS vendors, but if you’ll remember when Tesla banned the first CCS to Tesla adapter it was actually banned. It wouldn’t work when plugged in. The maker eventually had to release weekly software updates to get around the ban, and was hit with a new weekly ban. I’m not confident that if Tesla bans something, how easily it will get around that.
I remain skeptical until we know for sure. I definitely wouldn’t go buy an adapter from anyone yet.
That adapter was an active computer, processing the protocol and emulating a Tesla CHAdeMO adapter on the other side. Trivial to fingerprint its behavior and detect a fake adapter vs a real Teska adapter. Since Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter uses a proprietary protocol to talk to the car, there's no standards compliance at play there. It also had a fairly legitimate safety concern, as the CCS latch was not lockable, and people often stop charging (incorrectly) by pressing the CCS handle button and pulling it out. Normally, that button is locked, which at least gives many people the sign that "no! Wrong! Do not do!", but that adapter had no such lock. Additionally, the adapter (reportedly) didn't listen to the prox signal, which meant it wouldn't signal charge stop if the latch was pressed. Hugely dangerous in this case.
NACS to CCS adapters are entirely passive, and it'd be difficult to find a way to lock out such adapters since they have no meaningful electronics inside to detect - not even to detect the presence of an adapter. It just straight connects pins through!
Thanks Tom for the interview and introducing AZ.
Would recommend if you can do a cross comparison with Lectron's and the Tesla's too - love to get your reviews on all of them.
I've already interviewed the CEO of Lectron on this (just an hour ago) and that video will be up next week.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughneyjust fyi, you seemed to imply that Rivian had much less cars than ford on the road, with ford having 50 thousand (and counting). Rivian produced approximately 80 thousand between 2022 and 2023, so they may be about the same…
@scottcurrier8922 Thanks. I didn't realize that. I thought they were around 50k, but it looks like they have delivered over 70k at this point. That's good news.
It's great that Tom is reviewing these, but I think it's premature to order one. I'd wait to see what your car company offers, and also wait for certification.
I received mine on Jan 30th 24 and it is very substantial . Waiting on the ok from GM to start using it at superchargers. Great job A2ZEV! Thanks
I'm guessing there may be a software update needed so it will interface with the superchargers correctly. The basic protocol should work but it's going to be at the identification and/or the authorization level that may need some software. Essentially, the adapter is providing the network but there has to be some application communications to verify the user has access.
@@sambira That’s what i suspected, info is scarce . I called the GM concierge to ask that question and seriously threw the guy then he said after a pause that should be getting something in a week. Had no idea what it will say. I’m a be prepared kinda guy. It’s a curse lol. With such a huge shift on the brink of happening there would be more . Impressed with the A2z adapter. Very substantial.
Excellent interview. It looks like a nice adapter.
Thanks for the discussion. Not relevant to us Aussies but helps general adapter knowledge. 👍
Does this adaptor include a can opener to move the vehicle charge port to the correct location?
I have an A2Z Tesla destination adapter for my EUV. Very good quality and made of metal. Use it three times at hotels with no problems. There are two locking points for to prevent unplugging and thief.
Good to know. The challenges at DC currents and voltages are wildly different, but it’s good to know the mechanicals are sound
All EVs have temperature sensors on the charging pins? Is that part of the CCS standard?
Thank you for your closing comments because I think 90% of everyone else never mentions the J3400 plugs being added to existing infastructure beside the CCS plugs that will eventually dwindle from population like ChaDemo. I have 2 questions. Are the thermal sensors in the adapter in series with the proximity sensor so they will act like the depressed button to immediately interrupt charging if a thermal event is detected by either one of the sensors? If it’s not the case, can you please clarify, exactly their purpose and implementation. How many times that they could be triggered before they no longer allow the adapter to work? 32:27
Good info Tom. Thanks for your continued contributions to our EV experience. Couple of questions;
Will Tesla not be converting/ providing “Magic Dock” adapters at their Suoerchargers? That’d be more efficient for thousands of EV’s with CCS.
Is the Tesla supercharger plug different than a Tesla level 2 charger plug that you might find at a hotel or restaurant? I bought the Lectron adapter that you recommended last year and have had good success with it charging my Ioniq5. Sounds like that adapter isn’t suited to the DC fast charging but the Tesla plug seems like it might be the same in both cases level 2 and Supercharger
Great tip. I want one!
When testing temperatures during higher 500 amps, were the tests done in 120 F like will be the case in southwestern US?
Tom’s recommendation was the most important improvement. Can you image the spark created when disconnecting 800 volts at high current? Catastrophic ! UL would not list such a product.
One request for a future adapter: instead of just being a rigid adapter, it should have some length to it, because many superchargers don't have a long cord, so in order for a non-Tesla to charge there, either the car has to take up two spots, or the adapter needs extra cord length. An example for what this might look like is the Lectron Tesla to J1772 EV Adapter... which you can use if you want to charge at a Tesla "destination charger". (I use one at my house so my Tesla and my wife's Chrysler Pacifica can share one charger, but it's low power so I'm really looking forward to what A2Z is about to ship.)
That would be a very unwieldy adapter. Lugging around a 30-pound watercooler for your adapter's cable and having to plug that into an outlet is something for supernerds, not for the general public.
@@HenryLoenwind Have you ever driven to a busy Tesla Supercharger station, one where there are only one or two spots available? If your adapter has no extra length, and your car's charge port is in the left front or right rear, then you CAN'T CHARGE, because the cord won't reach! This is because the charge cords at Tesla's stations are short and assume your charge port is in the left rear, which is where they always are for Tesla vehicles.
@@JorgBrown What does your reply have to do with what I wrote?
Or do you think the laws of physics cave in if you just need something hard enough? (i.e. "go full Karen on them")
An advantage is that copper oxide also conducts electricity. So connections and terminations will not overheat and do not require the use of oxide-inhibiting compounds. I know since I have worked with 30 t0 90 kA copper busbars in the electrochemical for many years. Plating is not necessary!
I have a Cadillac lyriq, all-wheel-drive luxury three.
Unless GM mails me a free adapter that is certified, I doubt that I’ll be using any third-party adapters for the same reasons that you outlined. The last thing I need is the warranty being canceled on an $80,000 car with a $20,000 battery.
The other option is that Tesla’s new supercharging stations with built-in CCS, and in NACS come to my area and I’m able to use them.
For the time being, it’s probably safer and cheaper to simply charge at home on my level 2 J1772 Lectron Vbox.
Lectron will send me their adapter for NACS.
Seems like an extension chord may also be needed in addition to an adapter. Another future product?
Is there an adapter option to convert my Ford Charge Pro to NACS for AC charging my friends Tesla? Since the Ford Charge Pro has a CCS, port I can't use the normal J1772 to NACS adapter. The one that comes with a Tesla has a tab preventing it from connecting to a CCS. Thanks for the info!
I’m waiting for Rivian to see what they do. If Rivian doesn’t give us any (which is possible given they cutting costs), then A2Z it is. Looks very solid and at least I know the engineering behind the design.
As a fellow Riv owner ( Tom’s wife has one too), I also wondered about that . I can only my road trip in “ conserve “ mode so much . I doubt Rivian is going to give one away as well. There’s a cost for everything.
Rivian said they are giving them to existing buyers and I'm sure they will. It's too little money on each adapter to consider angering their customers after a promise. However, I think there will be a delay in getting them to all 20k r1 owners (actually how many are there). So I'm expecting to buy one of these nacs-ccs adapters directly instead of waiting for rivian.
This is great to see. I hope we'll see more affordable adapters though. 200 for one adapter seems a bit high when you can get entire chargers for the same cost.
Do you really want to cheap out on a part which handles 500 amps?
@@fb39ca4 definitely not. But there is no reason an adapter needs to cost this much. It's just the first and charging a premium to do it. There isn't even any guarantee this one is any good.
Suggestion to @State Of Charge - add "(SAE J3400)" into the video title for searchability.
Good suggestion - done.
With the Supercharger cable being so short, do you think an adapter with a longer lead would be better? say 18" from NACS to CCS1.. Just asking
Yes, it would. But it's not likely to happen because of the cooling issue in the extension cable.
What do you see as the future for public J1772 Type 1 chargers in the US? I have an electric motorcycle (made be Zero) and the Type 1 chargers are spotty at best today. If everyone switches to the Tesla standard do you see the j1772 type 1 going away? For these small vehicles we cannot use Level 2 charging no matter the source.
I'm pretty sure the Zero charger is perfectly happy to accept 240 volt input (120v/240v, universal supply), and that supply voltage is the only thing that really distinguishes a Level 1 from a Level 2 station. You'd be plenty fine, as long as your onboard charger accepts 240v, using a hot new NACS AC "level 2" station through an adapter. Genuinely curious if Zero has a limitation that requires 120v input and thus makes 240v level 2 stations inaccessible. To my knowledge, Zero's only limitation was that "level 1" was considered a power level, and of course at 240v, you're not going to get faster charging - just the same speed at a higher voltage/lower current.
Thank you
How did you charge on Tesla supercharger network several months ago when the network wasn’t open? I’m confused as a bmw i4 owner, trying to understand when I’ll be able to factor supercharger in during road trips.
There are a handful of Tesla superchargers that have an adapter built in called "magic dock." You can search for that term to find them. I believe they shifted from that strategy and it's unlikely you'll run into one of those stations.
@@Gorgula is correct
He combined the NACS->CCS1 with a CCS1->NACS adapter to charge a Tesla.
I'm curious what kind of pin wear, fault, degradation, etc can be detected using the 3 temperature sensors.
Tom another item that A2Z sells is a NACS DC extension cord. This allows some non-Tesla (right CCS1) vehicles to be able to connect to the supercharger networks to park in the stalls without taking up 2 charging stalls. It would be nice for your evaluation of this product, thanks
Hi there, we are still finishing the safety testings of these DC extension cords. It sure will be a good addition to the adapter once released. We are taking our time ensuring this extension is safe before it starts selling. A little side note, the cable is already UL certified on this extension cord.
Thanks A2Z for the quick response.
In addition to the adapter, Is there any thought or plans on developing an extension cable to extend the relatively short Supercharger cables?
I've heard some talk of it, but that will be VERY difficult because of the need for heat dissipation.
A2Z sells both NACS and J1772 extension cords. Using the NACS version with their Typhoon adapter should work. I own a Bolt that only chargers at 50 kW, so I'm not too worried about heat dissipation.🙂 Now we have to hear from Chevy about access to the Tesla charging network.
I'm sure it's been said, but the SuperCharger network is going to get WAY more crowded and longer waits once NACS is for all EV's. Will new ChargePoint and EA stations change their cables to NACS?
Yes, they all stated that they will be adding NCS sports to their networks
I honestly don't think so and this is why. Many many electrify America customers get free charging given by the mfg of their vehicle. I get 3 full years. So, why would I use Tesla unless it was absolutely necessary? I drive 1200 miles each way on a regular basis and I have yet to not be able to charge. I'm not going to pay Tesla for something I get free. Tesla is not the end all be all of charging companies. There are 30,000 other chargers out there who all are going to add the NACS cords just as they have CHADEMO now.
Those of you who bought into Tesla and their lies, well just deal with it.
😢
yeah, sorry but no. Granted i just bought a lightning but been renting EVs for past 3 years. The charging experience between Tesla and non is night and day. At local Walmart, there is on average of 3 to 4 cars waiting for 3 chargers. Meanwhile within same 10 mile area, there are 4 Tesla Superchargers, and NEVER had to wait to charge. Despite liking the Polestar and Hyundais, I choose to rent Tesla when I can when I will not be able to charge at home. Free charging is good, as long as you can use it... and majority of EV owners are much much closer to a Tesla supercharger than fighting for 1 or 2 plugs that work at EA. lol. You might not value your time, but plenty of do. Would much rather pay Tesla $20 to charge up than wait for 2 hours to go out of my way and wait in line for someone who is hogging the charger and spot at a Walmart. @@DAVIDTATLITUG
Yes chargepoint, evogo and the others have shown NACS cables on their chargers, they can be changed out as needed. Likely chademo plugs will be removed leaving CCS and NACS over the next few years.
I am going to purchase adapter so that I can use my 2024 Lyriq with my Tesla wall charger, although I'm sure that there will be lower cost options in the future. Thanks, Tom
Excellent Video Tom, I'm hoping BMW will approve the use with my BMW i3S. I've reached out to BMW Reps to see what they are planning.
BMW website advises they will "gain access to designated Supercharger Stations" in early 2025 along with Mini and Rolls-Royce. I'm still not sure all the i3's will be supported.
Honestly, I don't expect any OEM to officially endorse ANY adapter other than the one they plan to sell through their online portal or dealerships, because they probably want to profit from selling them. That doesn't mean some other ones won't be perfectly safe to use.
I bought one with the understanding it will work… eventually. :-)
VW says 2025, yet the ford Mach-e that is also on the VW MEB Platform and they will be ready the end of February. Is VW that attached to EA?
Anyone know Will this adapter work on BMW or Audi ?
What/who dictates the compatibility between the supercharger, adapter and vehicle? Like how do I tell if I can use it to charge my E-tron with this, or the Lectron version? Agreement between Tesla and receiving car company?
At the moment, it's up to Tesla. Their stations, their control. It sounds like the plan is to use Plug & Charge - an OEM-centric system that requires setup in your car's app (not the charging provider), to give different brands access at different times. You'll definitely know, when you get an email from your car company. Over time, I'd also expect Tesla to open it up "for all", by expanding/enabling access in the Tesla app, like Magic Dock is done today - but that likely won't happen for another year or so, when NACS native cars start shipping.
Tom, I have a question very important for me. Will Ford Lightning be able to be charged on a Tesla V2 (150kW) charger? I am surrounded by V2 chargers the V3s are far away. I have been thinking to buy a Lightning when able to use Tesla Superchargers, but if it can't charge on 150kW chargers I can't buy it!
Hi there,
Unfortunately, the V1/V2 chargers don’t speak the PLC protocol that the CCS standard has in place. NACS = CCS. The OEM adapter won’t solve this until these V1/V2 have their hardware updated.
@@a2zevshop Thanks for your reply!
@@arnecarlsson9740- I agree; thanks for the reply. I was under the impression that it WOULD work with all versions of Tesla SC’s. - I guess this is the same reason why Magic Dock is found only on V3 Super Chargers.
Do know of any extension cables compatible with Tesla supercharger?
What is the warranty on it?
Is there a lock on the adapter .to keep it from disappearing while you charging
It's in the video.
Thanks must of dosed off on that video
How do you know that your vehicle is compatible with Tesla's charger? I have an Audi Etron. Will it communicate with the Supercharger correctly?
When Audi publishes that your vehicle works with Tesla superchargers is when it's ready. Could be a while as VW signed up late to this transition.
Have the USA got a type of Kite Mark Standard that shows these things have been tested and are safe to use and thus can not be banned from being used at charging stations?
UL certification or ETL is the gold standard. It’s a third party lab that verifies it’s a safe device
Hey Tom, how will UL provide a listing for these adapters? I don’t think UL has developed standards for EV adapters. Can they use some standards developed for EVSE’s and apply to adapters?
We know UL has standards for 120 & 240V adapters, so wonder if they leverage off that for these adapters.
UL has developed a new protocol for these adapters and it's just now being implemented. It's called UL2252.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Now, I will look for UL2252 listing before buying an adapter.
Hi, do you know if Tesla is also planning to make an adapter from NACS to Chademo?
I do not believe so
I'm a bit confused. Will both the car's OEM (Ford, VW, etc.) and the charger company (Tesla , EA, ChargePoint, etc.) have to authorize the use of the adapters before an EV owner could use it to charge their car at a particular type of DCFC?
Kind of. First, the OEMs must have an agreement in place with Tesla, which most have by now. Next, Tesla must authorize the Superchargers to charge cars from other OEMs. That hasn't happened yet, but should within a few weeks. Finally, the individual OEMs must authorize their EVs to use NACS chargers and enable a payment system through their native app. No OEM has done that yet. We expect Ford to be first, some time in the early spring.
Thanks!@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney
I've already purchased two A2Z Stellar adapters for my HPWC and and UMC, and they are top quality products! I intend to also buy one of these Typhoon Plugs in the near future, as soon as Tesla opens up their Superchargers (NOT just "magic docks). C'mon, Tesla, EV owners are anxious to PAY your charging fees. My only question is whether other Superchargers will also charge EVs like my Ioniq 5 at no more than 97kW -which is the maximum rate I've been seeing for E-GMP EVs with "magic docks."
Thank you for your continuous support, we appreciate your trust towards our products and company 😁
11:32 Tesla’s super chargers communicates with the Tesla to allow the charger to operate and accept payment. How is that handled when using an adapter. Is that something Tesla needs to address?
Thanks, Tom. Why can’t Tesla have an RFID or NFC (or related tech) to authenticate adapter to safeguard their stations?
Could you please try the elmec evduty ev charger
He said the adapter is totally passive. Does that mean NACS and CCS1 use the same communication protocol? I’m trying to figure out how they talk to each other
Hi there,
NACS uses PLC to communicate, same goes for CCS. Both NACS and CCS use the ISO 15118 protocol.
The Tesla proprietary connector uses CAN bus to communicate with the vehicle.
CCS is one of the communications standards that NACS can handle, and the superchargers that work with this can speak CCS.
They use the same physical layer (like how Ethernet has a "link", but then a slew of different protocols can go over it). Tesla's Supercharger communication actually uses an entirely different physical layer (Single Wire CAN), which is electrically incompatible with CCS. Tesla ended up swapping out their proprietary SWC system (which they didn't want to open/share) in favor of adopting CCS's PLC communication system - and *mostly* the same language (ISO 15118, or DIN 70121, and their variations) as the standard for NACS.
Down at the level of how Superchargers actually talk (protocols), they used a slight variation of ISO 15118 (which CCS uses), which still means that cars that can't speak that language, will get turned away. In particular, authentication is an interesting challenge, since Superchargers have no user interface/payment terminal - so to keep a positive experience, they're ensuring that every car that'll plug in, doesn't need to interact with the station - just plug and charge.
It's gonna be an interesting few years as this information becomes more widely known.
That is the reason why you can go from CCS to NACS and NACS to CCS, but can't use an adapter to chademo, that uses a different protocol.
@@FalconFour ah, nice to hear from someone who actually knows what's going on. :) Did Tesla develop this new ISO 15118 variation on its own or was it a joint effort with some of the early NACS adopters, like Ford? (if you can say that is)
I already own a Tesla and their Tesla mobile charger. Could I use that charger with this adapter to charge an F150 Lightning? It seems like that should work, regardless of pending agreements between Ford and Tesla. Thanks!
Luckily we don't have this problem in Europe. Tesla changed from NACS to CCS2 since NACS doesn't support 3-phase. So everyone uses the same connector here (except a few older cars with Chademo).
In America we like to do things back assward and lag years behind the rest of the world.
FYI J1772 / CCS doesn't have PP (proximity pilot), we have PD (proximity detection) or simply "proximity". PP is for detachable cables.
Disappointing that engineers designing charging adapters don't know the difference.
I'm surprised that the topic of an "adapter with an extension cable" allowing EVs with charging ports in different locations to use Superchargers without taking up 2 or more spots never came up.
The currents involved are hundreds of amps. An extension cable of some sort would have to be very carefully designed. It might also be very expensive. It would also have to have mechanical features to prevent a hot disconnect
The Supercharger cables V3 and V4 have some type of liquid cooling in them to keep the cables from overheating. Wouldn’t be possible with an extension cord.
Any timeframe for gm adapter?
GM isn't making its own adapter. They will source it from one of the companies - perhaps more than one company, that are making it now.
Aren't manufacturers providing them for free?
What if Tesla won't let you use their supercharger if you don't use the auto manufacturer free adapter or bill you if there is damage since you are using a non approved adapter?
The oems will be sending out adapters too
Tom, outstanding questions. I was a *lot* more impressed with the engineer as the CEO did not seem prepared.
Can this adapter be used now at 250kw Tesla superchargers?
Nothing can be used now, since Tesla hasn't opened the network yet. But once they do, yes.
THe NACS to CCS1 adapters should have like aa 2 or 3 foot cable betwen the NACS and CCS ends to facilitate easy connection to non-Tesla vehicles who may have ports on the wrong side... IT will increase cost, but make for easier use with some vehicles.
Where are the videos of it working on a non magic dock system to an approved vehicle
I want to see a video of someone actually using the adapter.
Tesla has already opened a few superchargers, mostly in the NE, the chargers will have an adapter on the unit that unlocks based on your vehicle type. I don’t understand why you would need to buy this, but maybe I’m missing something.
The current Tesla Superchargers which are open to all EV's use the "Magic Dock" adapter. It is similar to this NACS to CCS adapter which is built into the station and the adapter is released if needed by a non-Tesla. There are about 2 dozen station around the country that use the Magic Dock. I do not believe Tesla intends to put the Magic Dock system into many more stations. Most Tesla Superchargers will require the user to provide an adapter.
The best adapter for this purpose is the magic dock
It works perfectly.
There magic dock is not being installed at all Tesla chargers. Tesla is putting them at mostly the very large stations. This adapter is also going to be available through Tesla for what they claim well be a hundred bucks. I'm sure that's just another untrue Tesla lie.
@@DAVIDTATLITUG
Yep aware of that point, however it would be great if they did. Regardless, I will buying an adapter as soon as I'm sure my EQS can use it at any supercharger.
why does this adapter have a ac component(j1772 equivalent)
Hi,
The L1 and N inserts are not populated.
Thank you.
Thanks Tom. 👍I have the Nissan Leaf with CHAdeMO Is anybody doing NACS to CHAdeMO?
Not that I know of yet
There is CCS to ChadeMO ruclips.net/video/wydql2N_F-k/видео.html and since NACS can understand CSS language which is why these adapters and retrofits are possible you should just be able to tag this on one.
Just be careful with chargers that charge for time spend.
Ha! Is the original Tesla Chademo? If they were going to do it, they would have.
Most EV”S in North America are Tesla and NCAS is original equipment. There are a larger number of companies using CCS, but their total number for all those car companies is less than Tesla’s total car numbers.
They should also make CCS1 to ChadeMo and NACS to ChadeMo adapters.
Two issues I see...
1) This may be fine at 3rd party NACS stations as they convert their cords from CCS to NACS. However, because this adapter is largely passive and with no authentication, there is nothing to stop Tesla requiring adapters at their SuperChargers to have intelligence inside - and block 3rd party adapters. Because these haven't been tested at SuperChargers and Tesla is not blessing this adapter, there is a large risk it won't work.
And 2) This adapter doesn't have a positive lock which can't be interrupted while plugged in. The proximity pilot can be interrupted, but charging power is not stopped instantly so the cord can still be pulled out while current is being delivered. Conversely when something like a Magic Dock adapter is used (or no adapter), charging power is stopped with the button press before the electronic locks are released to allow disengagement. It was very concerning that the 1st version of the adapter has no consideration for cable unplug at all, and with this new version, usage of the Proximity Pilot signalling still does not ensure power is ceased before the plug could be physically removed.
Not seeing a reason here to risk usage of a 3rd party adapter versus one that is blessed by the OEM and Tesla - and which will be provided by them for free or similar cost.
Hi Bill,
Regarding your first question, indeed Tesla has the power and resources to do so. We would not have launched the sales without making sure the adapter would be compatible and accepted at Tesla Superchargers in any possible way. To this day, we have constant discussions with OEMs regarding this particular factor.
To answer your second question, there was not really any 1st version, only prototypes. The only reason people know about our changes is because we decided internally that we will be transparent in the process of development. What is a good thing? We think so.
We tested this second locking mechanism feature - when unlatching it, the charging process actually stops almost instantly. The prox pilot is the same mechanism that ensures charge stops in CCS if the latch is pressed. It allows the charging process to stop before you can pull the plug.
Indeed, you are right, we can admit that our adapter is not the most intuitive one, but we made sure it integrates as much safety steps as possible.
Thank you.
@@a2zevshopThanks for your reply, but I think what you mention about CCS1 locking is not quite clear in practice on vehicles and CCS1 charge cords. So speaking in regard to say a Cadillac Lyriq as an example of a CCS vehicle. When the CCS cable is inserted into the charge port, the car has an actuator motor to lock the connector when engaged with the vehicle. In this way, that cable cannot be physically pulled out while power is flowing, regardless of a physical CCS lever. And if the actuator ever failed to engage, charging power will be limited for safety as the connector is not secured. But assuming everything is ok, when you want to remove the charge cord, you press the button on the cord - the prox unlatch is signaled, power is stopped, and the actuator motor in the car only then allows the connector to be pulled out. But when an adapter is used, this interlocking only works on the car side of the adapter. But there is no physical locking mechanism to prevent the charger end from being pulled out of the adapter while power is flowing. Your prox interruption will be a best attempt to get things powered down quickly, but you can pull the cable out before that happens. This is different from say the Tesla Magic dock adapter, which cannot be physically removed from the charge cord during charging. So I think you still have a hole there in your design.
@@billjohnson3344 Thank you for you reply. Actually, the bottom lock on our adapter is a physical and "electronic" lock. When engaged, it lock the cable and it cannot be removed until you unlock the lever under the adapter. The adapter only "charges" when the lock is engaged since it has an electronic switch that either opens or closes proximity.
To unlock our adapter from the vehicle (not the right way), you would have to slide open the bottom latch in order to remove the cable and by that you are break pros, otherwise the cable is stuck in the adapter.
If it is not clear, let us know how and where we can send you a video.
Thank you.
@@a2zevshopYes, I understand. I meant that your device lacks a prohibitive mechanism to prevent charge cable removal from the adapter while connected to the car. There is nothing stopping the user from flipping the slide latch you mention and pulling out the cable from the adapter, whereas something like the Magic Dock adapter physically doesn't allow the charge cable to be unplugged at all. The car locks the adapter to the car with an actuator (no way to physically remove until the car allows it), but the cable side can be pulled out if the user slides that bottom latch. Nothing physically prevents them from doing that, and if done quick enough the proximity signal removal interruption is not enough to stop charging power (why the car also has a locking actuator). When plugged into the car, there needs to be a physical restriction that prohibits the adapter cable release from either being accessed or pressed, and that is missing as I understand your adapter design.
Several ways to do this. As one example, opposite gender adapters in use today (CCS to Tesla) have the long pin which presses again the vehicle inlet, and then physically locks the cable side from release. Many 3rd party adapters that first came out did not have this physical prohibition, and that's what led to a lot of issues. Tom covered an early adapter like this on his channel, and also talked about the pin interlock and why it was important.
But please correct me if I'm wrong, and if your adapter in some way prevents the user from physically disengaging your cable lock when the adapter is plugged into the car.
I could have sworn that after I applied for the Ford adapter I got an email from A2Z saying that my adapter would be shipped when available…Ford Canada
I think I will wait for a while as I am sure there will be many choice and the price is going to come down.
Very nice?
In Europe we want adapters for CCS2-cable to CHAdeMO-cars
dalas ev repair on youtube
Do you see the price going down over time?
Perhaps with competition, but probably not too much, because if it's a quality unit, it won't be very inexpensive to manufacture.
Would love a adapter for chadamo to ccs for the 800,0000 leafs out there
chademo uses a different car to charger communication protocol so no cost effective adapter will likely be available. It will need more than a hardware adapter it will need built in electronics to convert the signal from one format to another
Alibaba has CCS to ChadeMo adapter for the Leaf. The manufacturer lists for $1000 usd.
link seems to be invalid.
It works for me
since they are saying that tesla will only allow sharing on the Supercharger version 3 and 4, will this adapter allow us to charge on version 2 super chargers? Here is Texas most Tesla chargers are the version 2 superchargers
No. That's not up to the adapter, it's that the older Supercharger stations aren't capable to communicating to CCS1 vehicles.
And ford is providing chargers for Mach e and lightning owners. It was confirmed yesterday or the day before.
In a video 5 months ago Tom dug into the fine print and found that the major charging providers (like Electrify America) disallowed any adapter that was not provided by a vehicle manufacturer. Ford's CEO Farley said that Ford customers with the CCS port will be given a certificate for a free adapter which would comply with the restrictions on adapters by the big energy providers. IMO other manufacturers will follow Ford's lead on this. I think I will wait for my free adapter, rather than buy something that is technically illegal.
sounds like a great adapter
i just purchase one for my tesla and my next ev with a probably ccs port
From A2Z website: "NACS (Tesla Supercharger & 3rd Party DC charger) to CCS1 Adapter | 500A | 1000V | DC | 12 Months Warranty"
I am an Electrical Engineer working the in the EV space. You absolutely MUST have a mechanical interlock that prevents the NACS connector from being removed from the adapter until the adapter is removed from the car. Both CCS and NACS REQUIRE a vehicle-side lock that will not allow the connector to be removed until the vehicle clears the HV connection for safety. In the event of a failure of the contactors in the vehicle (contact weld) the vehicle will not release the connector for safety. If you look at Tesla's CCS to NACS adapter they released for their customers, they have a simple clever pin that slides in to interlock the CCS connector until the adapter is released from the vehicle. This adapter must have the same feature or it is NOT SAFE. A proximity de-assert is NOT SUFFICIENT!
Hoping Tom replies to this.
Agree, and have said the same here also. The vendor has replied and seems to think the proximity interrupt and a user slide latch on the cable side of the adapter is sufficient - which is not correct.
We have replied to your email.
We take into consideration absolutely all comments and improve accordingly. We are currently evaluating it.
We thank you for raising awareness.
I don’t understand the “Approved*” in the description when they can’t say who Approved. This could be misleading for the consumer.
Agree, who Approved what and under what standard?
Amine talks about that at @16:00
I love how he says, “Most EVs use the CCS charger”, when most of the EVs on the road are Teslas!
That's a correct statement. Out of 40+ EVs sold in North America today, only the Nissan LEAF, Tesla Model Y, Tesla Model 3, Tesla Model S, and Tesla Cybertruck don't have a CCS1 inlet. Now, those 5 EVs certainly account for the vast majority of new car sales here, but I wasn't talking about sales volumes, just the number of vehicles available that use CCS1.
Remembering the universal adapter from Tesla for their level two home station. Wondering where this fits in. Thinking of the Tesla unit for use with a Nissan Ariya a Cadillac Lyriq. How does this adapter compare?
This is for high power DC charging and that is for lower power AC charging. It's really two completely different uses.
I want to see Tom testing these adapters in a serious rain storm. Please use Optimus, not a human, to disconnect the charging port at 800V.
I'll do it myself
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney You are a brave man 🙂
I wish I could remove the adaptor from the Tesla Universal Wall Charger and take it on road trips. Got that one installed on 60 A breaker for a BMW i4 to keep things future proof at the house.