I made a mistake in the video. There are actually four states that Electrify America doesn't have any charging stations, not three. I missed West Virginia. (Hat tip to Vladi Ivanov)
Big miss there. Less than 400 miles from NYC. Less than 300 miles from DC. And NO CHARGERS. Navigate from Pittsburgh to Charlotte in a CCS vehicle: It’ll take 9 1/2 hours. No EVGO either.
I believe WV was the last state to get a DCFC. Currently we still only have them at dealerships, so it's really a flip of the coin if they are public. Our NEVI implementation is still unfortunately a long way off!
I had to double check when I saw your piece. Yes there is NO EA in WV. I even asked EA directly. This was their response … Hi, Bob. While we don't currently have a location within West Virginia, we are dedicated to going where the EV community needs us. 🙂 Your request for our chargers in West Virginia has been shared with our team for review. If you have any specific location suggestions along that route in mind, please don’t hesitate to share your thoughts with us - we’d be happy to take a closer look! -LM
Important note for the occasional traveler: the last time I checked, you could sign up for Pass+ for a month and then cancel it when you were done. So if you only road trip a few times a year, just sign up before you travel and cancel/don’t renew at the end of the month of your trip and you don’t have to pay the monthly fee when you won’t use it.
Tom, I agree with you about the idle fees. EA should charge $0.50 per minute. But I don't think they'll be able to charge higher fees for times when the site is fully utilized. Currently, they can't even determine which of their dispensers are up and which are down. How are they going to figure out if the whole site is full? 😄
I have a Tesla and didn't know they didn't have idle fees and didn't know stations with 2 cables on each side can't charge 2 cars at the same time. That's so dumb! Why put 2 cables and not let 2 cars charge. Plus there's the dumbfu*ck ignorant drivers that use them to charge while they go into shop. They have no clue they're supposed to be used for road trips, charge and go. They make those who are on actual road trips wait because of their dumnas$ having to charge because they think they have to, A LOT of education is needed. Idle fees can help keep those drivers from sitting there holding up others that really need it.
We have been charged other people's idle fees (to max allowed) and told numerous times our grace period is over when we are miles away. We reported to EA, got refund, but doubt fixed. Chargers show available when busy and vice versa. Tom, why do you think they stopped charging idle fees to begin with?
@@mikecarter2737 haha. I knew it. EA can’t do anything right. I swear they were a Trojan horse sent by VW to show the US “how bad EVs are”, and to be fair it worked. EA continues to be rally cry for how we arnt ready for EVs.
My only concern is around the times when EA failed to realize that I had actually unplugged and left a station. Once, I had to call customer service because the app showed me as idling at a station for two months! At $0.40 per minute, that's ... give me a second ... $9200. And they've got my credit card number.
Yes, that's actually terrifying because I don't think their customer service has any kind of dispute process in place to handle erroneous fees. I've heard stories about people getting charged for kWh from the previous session because the station didn't zero out properly (e.g. started counting up from 60 kWh instead of 0 kWh after plugging in). Even though it was mathematically impossible for their car to draw the amount power claimed, EA customer service said they still have to pay and there was no way to dispute it. For example, a Chevy Bolt being charged for 75 kWh in a 30 minute session. That's more kWh than the Bolt battery could possibly hold, and the charge rate is 3x faster than the maximum possible.
I’ve had several issues with their network. App says that the charging has ended and needs to be retried but then my Rivian is definitely still charging.
My 2015 Model S 85D has had free charging from the beginning. I've used it twice a year to drive down to fla from MA and then about once every two months because it's so much easier to charge at home then to drive 15 mins each way to a super charger. I also do it during times when the chargers are all open; about 10am or 1pm. I only pay .15 kw at home, so not really worth taking the trip.
8 years into EV ownership, owned 2 EVS with over 200k miles driven, and this has solidified the fact that I will be getting a used 2015-2016 Model S 90/100D next. The .48c a KwH was already ridiculously high for charging an EV but now it's just going to change constantly and be harder to plan. Unlimited free supercharging here I come.
As we move forward, I can imagine regulators will start looking at these charger networks just like they do gas stations today. Placing requirements to publish your their per kW prices in such a way to allow us to review before we even pull into the charging station. This will also help as the density of charging stations increases by driving competitive pricing.
I believe EA is now seeing the writing on the wall and they really need to buckle up. The price hike may be a bit to swallow considering how unreliable their chargers are. In addition to hardware issues, one thing I would do for faster payment processing (if you don’t use their app) is to allow immediate charging for a few minutes, then authenticate and authorize payment during charging. Maybe have a smaller screen like Rivian running Linux rather than windows based system.
Those last two legal changes to the EA account terms need to be VERY carefully scrutinized. EA is creating a legal defense to any attempt by a group of customers who want to hold the company accountable for its contemptible and miserable performance. This is a move by a company that clearly is more devoted to protecting itself from angry customers than it is to delivering decent service.
This^ Obviously the rollout of magic dock/onboarding of other car manufacturers (GM, Ford, etc) will change this. But I would greatly appreciate more DC chargers of any company in my home state. When road tripping I always have to charge up a good bit on bordering states before heading home (80% minimum).
Great video Tom as always. And way to reiterate the stupid free charging that some manufacturers give that clogs up the network. You always mention this in other videos but always a good reminder to tell your less educated or new EV viewers the very seldom need to charge to 100% and on top of that the detriment of doing so all the time it has on the battery lifespan. Always a good opportunity to mention it every time. :)
One thing that I have seen from looking online is that some chargers in Quebec bill by the minute, but increase the per-minute charge at higher states of charge, basically sending a message of "you've charged enough to continue, please move along".
I listened with great interest about the idle fees. Here in Canada, Electrify Canada (which is Electrify America with a different name) there has always been a 40 cent a minute idle fee after 10 minutes. The only time this impacted me was when the app wasn't working, a common event with Electrify Canada, and the charger stopped charging, so that when I came back I was racking up idle fees
Good explanation of the changes. I think with the Pass+ plan you can activate as needed. I only use EA when road tripping so instead of allowing EA to take $7 per month I’ll just go down to Pass. I still have some free charging that came with my EV6 and somehow got renewed. Also, you seemed to overlook the change for New Jersey where each EA station will now have an attendant who must plug in your car. No self service for you 😅
Thanks for the great overview as always. I recently stopped in Cranberry Township, PA and was going to charge at an EA station across from my hotel (Tesla Model Y with CCS adapter, EA Pass Plus member until a few minutes ago, the EA app showed charging by the minute), but it was totally full when I got there. So I scooted down to the Tesla Supercharger and, lo and behold, they charged by the kWh. Perhaps in PA it's regional, but somehow Tesla was able to do it. $7 isn't worth it to me anymore since I mostly travel with my Tesla and not my Kia Niro EV. I'll turn Pass+ back on on a monthly basis if I expect to use it more than about 70 kWh for the month (was 33 kWh * $0.12 difference ~ $4).
They have to as they move into the run and maintain of their future. Electrical prices have always been localized, and even gasoline prices vary by area.
My understanding is that Electrify America came into existence as part of the settlement in the VW diesel air quality cheating scandal. A $2B judgement was made against them and creating this network is how they paid it off. But I don’t know that the requirement extended to maintaining it to any sort of availability standard.
Super clear explanation, Tom! And you nailed it on the idle fees. I’d have no problem with $5 per minute. It has to be a real deterrent against charger squatters. I’m hoping that the new pricing will fund better maintenance. I’ve talked to a couple of their techs along I-75 and it seems that they are trying harder. Also, the variable pricing makes driving costs more like gas car driving in that gas prices vary state to state as well. It will be interesting to see how those prices change.
I am surprised they maintained a nationwide uniform pricing model as long as they have. I thought they’d also charge slightly higher rates for their 350 kw vs. 150 kw units.
The fairest method of pricing is to just bill for energy dispensed. That's where per killowatt-hour pricing comes in. There shouldn't be a penalty or incentive for charging slower or faster. However, I do agree that they need to better communicate the max charging speeds of each EV. There shouldn't be a VW ID4 clogging up 350 kW units when their max charge rate is only 135 kW.
They use to do that but there were too many tiers and it was a bit confusing and unfair in some situations It was like 1-75kw 76-150kw 151kw-350kw However it was based on top rate the vehicle reported it could do so for example some Hyundais reported to the charger they could do 100kw but they wouldn’t never exceed 70kw, they got charged 76-150kw fees So they initially had a plan that was Hyundai exclusive but later made it simpler with just 2 tiers (and eliminated session fees for pass/ guest)
@@davelavigne2133 Yeah they do, as long as they aren't broken they can output 350 kW. Probably the site you've been charging at has some degraded power modules.
All charging networks should add a feature to their app where users can report a problem with the charger. Chargers that have problems reported for them should have an indicator that others can see to identify if the issue is slow charging, broken screen or credit card reader, a completely unusable charger, or other problem.
I could see my area of the Midwest being a good candidate for a reduction but we shall see. I hope to see the "free" charging programs disappear also. Level 2, home charging incentive!
@@lkuhn65 Exactly. And it's crazy to me that some i7 owners that spent $120K on the car are willing to sit in a Walmart parking lot at 9p, for 50 minutes so they can save the $17 it would cost them to charge at home.
Tom, Great overview of the current state and upcoming changes. If everyone watches and comprehends this, they will undoubtedly have fewer issues with the future pricing they will ensure.
What a great video, as always, explaining the details of the changes in one major network in North America. In an effort to keep the newbies up to speed consider the five factors that determine the success of EV fast-charging networks. #1: Reliability. Most networks were built without an incentive to keep the unit working. One network, Tesla, has achieved this status. #2: Availability. If you have a working charger, you can eventually wait, though people will gravitate towards the network that is ready immediately. #3: Location. Gas stations learned a long time ago, location, location, location. Location includes #4 time to get back on the road, safety, and ease of use. Ease of use could be an additional factor. #4: Time to charge. 7-minute mark in the video. This is intertwined with #3 location but is also affected by the available kW power of the charger(s) and the ability of the EV to receive that power. #5: Cost. The cost has little impact until #1 through #4 is met. Home charging and using level 2 destination chargers minimize the impact of #5. I certainly want to be up to speed on how costs apply, and no one helps better than State of Charge. If you are new and can charge at home, this will equal ten percent of your costs. Tom's close is spot on when he talks about how to use the networks and how you should, if possible, charge at home, and how to learn good changing habits in general.
Idle fees are important, but I think the 10 minute grace period is ok since idle fees start when the charging sessions ends, not when you are done charging. So if the station fails and you’ve just walked to the bathroom, not you need to hurt up and get back to your car to restart the charge. And the app is so bad that it seems every time I charge the app says the session failed but the charger is still charging. So you can’t depend on the app for anything.
Agree on the idle fees, I'd make it more onerous! Five minutes after stopping charging is perfectly adequate. I read the email to say that you have to look at the individual dispenser at the time to really know what the rate is at the time. I read it to say that the fee will be changing dynamically. Sure makes planning difficult, substantially more difficult if each station in a particular area could have a different rate. It would be like no gas stations advertising their prices until you pull up to the pump! Something that changed post WWII.
I read it would be available in the app, but I haven't seen it in the app yet, and the new pricing is supposedly live. (I also don't have the monthly pass yet.)
I am one of those people who got free supercharging with my Tesla and I’m going during the summer because I have to run my AC so much and my solar system is not large enough to offset the cost of charging at home. Once I stop using my AC, I’ll charge at home.
I think these changes make sense. However, I take issue with the fact that the in-app pricing is not always going to be accurate. The chargers are connected to the internet, and the app is connected to the internet, there is NO REASON the displayed pricing shouldn't match. Absolutely absurd!
Admittedly, seven dollars per month is substantially more than four dollars a month, but the savings is so substantial that if you are using the public network, it’s always a good deal. Tesla charges $12.99 per month for their discounted membership. And that only gets you access to 10 charging stations across the United States currently.😂 I am also very happy that they are going to charge idle fees. I've seen a car with over 80 minutes of idle time which made me so disappointed on a station that was full.
Thank you for doing this video it helps to inform everyone on the changing increases on the real cost of EV ownership. Here in Colorado Electrify America has been charging idle fees. I think we should pay less if their stations are limiting output like I experience 80percent of the time. Im not a fan of this company.
When I bought my EV6, Kia's EA incentive was 1,000kWh that expires after three years. Don't know if that's changed, but not all manufacturers gave unlimited sessions.
I also have an EV6 and the 1000 kWh free is one of the best and fairest charging plans. You don't get people hogging up stations trying to get free charging. The absolute worst offenders are VW ID4 owners since they get unlimited charging for 2 years and their cars charge fairly slow. Our E-GMP brethren, the Ioniq 5 gets 2 years unlimited, but at least it has the fast charging curve like all E-GMP cars.
Another possible hiccup with idle fees is when the charger errors out early in your session. If you're expecting a 40 minute charge and it erroneously quit after 5, that will hurt. (Sure, make sure app and notifications are working.)
Tom,, I agree with the free charging incentives. I have a 2021 ID.4 with the totally unlimited plan. However, I have hardly ever used the free charging. I had a home charger for the first two years and paid about $20 a month to charge. It was worth it for the convenience of not driving to the EA charger two miles away. I have recently moved to a Condo Association, where home EV charging is not allowed. Fortunately, I live in an area that supports EV infrastructure, and there are lots of Level 2 charging options around entertainment districts. These were put in by the local utility and charge 16 cents a Kwh. Managed to add about 100 miles yesterday after going to see Oppenheimer. Do like having the free charging on road trips however! Hate it when there's a car done charging at the only working charger.
This is why it pays to be a military veteran. The military base, I live near town has EV chargers located between the gym and the bowling alley on the base. The chargers are covered by solar powered cover pavilions. 4 1772 and a level 2 tesla charger. The 1772's are 6.6 KW and the level 2 Tesla is 7.2 KW power levels. Tom if you live close to a military base; become an MWR member. Most bases have a level 2 charger somewhere on base.
Yes, I have done this in the past. You do have to pay for the full month, there's no pro-rating or refund if you cancel earlier. And you have to remember to stop the auto-renewal. Otherwise, that works fine.
I agree with these changes, I just didn't know about the inability to charge per kWh rather than per min. That idle fee amount needs to be higher it's $1/min at Tesla Superchargers here in Australia(imagine similar to US) and other charging networks are following the same model with $1/min after the first 10min once charging completes. I don't count charging bays as parking bays they are for charging not parking, pull in charge and leave.
Instead of free Level 3 charging how about including a Level 2 charger with the vehicle? That would make a lot more sense for most buyers long-term. I know that renters wouldn't necessarily benefit from this change.
I charge at home and only occasionally depend on EA for long trips. BUT in my experience most of the time the stations either don't work or are blocked by those dreadful VW ID whatevers.
I agree. ID4 owners are (generally) the worst. Especially when they tie up 350 kW chargers when their max charge rate is only 140 kW. At least most Bolt EV owners tend to be self-aware of how painfully slow their car DC charges.
@webcomment8895 Hmm, that's bizarre. The 175 kW EA stations output up to 375 amps, so that should allow a 400 volt EV up to 140 kW of power. That's assuming all power modules are working. It's a bit annoying to see slower charging EVs occupying the 350 kW unit when my EV6 can take up to 240 kW.
If they are going to charge more for time in some states, you’d think they would charge at the max rates the whole time in order to not punish the customers unnecessarily, because if you have an 800V car, they don’t currently consistently charge at the max rate like Tesla does so you’ll end up paying more then you have to because the station isn’t giving the full power like it should. I hope they fix this soon!
I like the site that Kyle reported on in Texas at a Cadillac dealer that was the only EV charger for many miles and had an idle fee of like $50 yes dollars not cents, per minute!
Tom, Regarding Idle fee notifications. Tesla gives you a 10 minute cumulative warning. 5 minutes before charging ends plus 5 minutes after. The one improvement I wish they would add is a built in active countdown Timer so you can see how long you have to get back to your vehicle. Some of the charger locations are quite a walk from the host businesses (large parking lots)
I look at the estimated time to finish charging and set a countdown on my watch, then I know when to start heading back. The reminders help too and never had problems getting back in time. I've been charged idle fees a few times when I've been held up but it's not a big deal.
@@gabem8119 I received a first time warning once when I was at a location and got delayed returning to the vehicle due circumstances beyond my control. Yesterday, a similar situation happened. I got the message notification but didn’t hear the alert sound on my phone. When I did finally see the message I looked at it and realized there was no Easy way to tell when I had received it. yes it has a time stamp. But I’m talking about a large obvious way to see how much time had passed since I received the notification. Fortunately, I was the only one at this location so even had I gone over in time I would not have been charged for it.
The only issue I have with the idle fees is that those of us who have manufacturer plans don’t get to use the EA app, and manufacturer apps are very unreliable when it comes to notifications about charge status. Not an issue when it works, but when their charger fails 5 minutes after I walk away from what I expect to be a 30 minute charge, I end up with 15 minutes of idle fees.
I'm kind of surprised that the app doesn't necessarily have the most up-to-date price. How is that possible that the app can be constantly updated with the state of charge but not with the price?
They probably just added that for legal reasons in case the app glitches or doesn't update. If they didn't say that, you'd have a lot of people complaining that they paid more than the app showed. In 99% of cases, the app will show the correct pricing at a station.
@JoeCarlinCA Station pricing doesn't appear to have changed yet. I charged on Saturday and it was still the same 48 or 36 cents a killowatt-hour. The app also reflects no change to pricing yet. EA's backend programming is really lacking.
This is really weird Francis energy in Tulsa Oklahoma charges 39 cents per minute not kwh, Plus a $1 connection fee. A lot of people complain that there are 200 kw stations only put out 50 kW of power- Sometimes but not all the time.
19:30 I agree with idle fees, but they really need to fix the app. It's often super delayed with the current state of charge and crashes often on me. You even say it in the Outro, they have to fix the app. That's going to get them in trouble for not clearly advertising the service fees before rendering the service.
Thanks for reminding to cancel my pass+ subscription 🙂 I bought the CCS adapter for my Tesla months ago and haven't used it a single time since; living in California, I didn't really realize I could save a lot of money on Electrify America vs. Tesla network, but the real reason for getting EA was for charging my leaf, which I don't plan to use anymore anyway. And TBH, the few times I tried using EA, either there were no available chargers, or they were out of service. So yeah, not a fan.
If EA doesn't get their act together they won't have to worry about their dynamic pricing... Frankly there isn't any other infrastructure so it really doesn't matter what they are charging. If you need a charge you are going to use them no matter what. At least we have the heads up that we may be surprised at how expensive charging has become. EA with credit card readers that don't work, derated chargers, down chargers... I can only hope and pray the areas I am driving through that I don't have to use EA. It is just too dodgy. Sadly some of my road trips require driving through EA areas and it is frankly frightening with no plan b if things are toast. I don't know why there isn't congressional inquiries into these charging networks. If they are taking public money they should be held accountable for reliability. Putting the hammer down for idle time is good. It should be $1 minute or even more... Put the hammer down. Also they need to start capping the sessions for these people with the free charging. Keep people moving.
Hopefully this works for them as its badly needed the current process an reliability is terrible. We need all EV chargers to be working properly 100% of the time.
Thanks for the update. I only occasionally use EA chargers but had kept the PASS+ membership out of convenience due to the relatively low monthly cost. With the increase from $4/month to $7/month, it’s no longer worth it to me. Interestingly, when I went on my EA app to cancel, it shows that my plan will change to the regular PASS membership on 8/3/23, even though I didn’t request this. I’m wondering if users that don’t regularly use their membership are being auto-switched so they don’t get blindsided by the 75% cost increase? There is an option where I can select KEEP MY PASS+ MEMBERSHIP, but I won’t be choosing to do so. 🤨
It is amazing that nearly every gas station has simple credit card that works, yet many EV chargers don't have this feature or it doesn't work. $0.48/kWh is a rip off, especially in states with cheaper electricity
I mean, they do have to make a profit off the electricity. Maintenance costs money, expansion costs money, servers cost money. Now, I have no idea what the competition is charging for delivering power at the same speed, but I also don't expect to pay the 4.33¢/kWh that I get at home off-peak. We'll have to see what they start charging come August...
@@WarpedFlayme In addition to all of the above, it's also worth noting that you're only billed for the energy that actually flows into your car, but a fair price must also account for energy that is lost to heat within the charger, energy which the driver is never billed for directly. For example, conversion of power from AC to DC loses energy to heat, as does shoving the energy through wires at high power. To avoid overheating, the chargers also need liquid cooling, which consumes even more energy. The only way for the charging company to pay for the energy consumed that doesn't flow into the car is to charge above-utility rates for the energy that does.
With uniform pricing, the consumers in states with lower electric costs have been subsidizing the price of electricity in states with higher electric costs. Site specific rates let the local market set the price for everyone. As for the general price increase, I'm sure EA has to pay Tesla a licensing fee, so that has to be covered by the consumer. As for idle time, I'd prefer double the charge rate after five minutes.
There is a secondary point..... Some states have subsidized the installation of the charging station, like New York State. All of the EA New York locations subsidized by Evolve New York mandate the maximum rate EA can charge at these Stations.
In the states where EA is charging by the minute, is tesla also charging by the minute? A quick google search shows tesla charging by the kWh in Texas, but your map shows Texas only allows charging by the minute.
Good informative video, Tom. EA is such a unreliable, trash charging network, I avoid at all costs. Home charging is a necessity. If someone cannot charge at home or at their workplaces, EV ownership will likely not be their best option, maybe buy a hybrid instead 😮
@@JarredSutherland indeed, although I’m not sure how the money integration will work with payments. With Tesla, the charger uses your credit card on file.
Totally agree about charging fees. I do wonder about the notification and the 10 minute grace period. If someone is shopping, they might be more than 10 minutes away. Would be nice if the station could notify you not when it is done, but when it is at xx percent (i.e. 90%). In fact that way, you could remove the grace period and just make sure you get notified in time to get back to your car when it is just about done. Of course, this is less of an issue the faster a car charges. In my Bolt, I easily have an hour "quick charge" session when travelling. Say 20% to 85%. With an hour, I can get food or go shopping. I picked that because we almost never QC, but the one trip we do a couple of times a year, it is like that. I need one charge and it takes 50 minutes to an hour to get me to where I can reach my destination without hitting orange on the gauge when we arrive, which is nice in case the hotel charging isn't working/is full/etc and I have to take the car elsewhere to charge. Of course, I don't need notification because I don't charge my car to full during those times ("Once charging stops" when grace/idle starts according to the EA site) and I watch the app, but if I did it more frequently, I could see that being nice... But if I am in a faster charging car and it will be done in 20 minutes, then I'm not leaving my car except for mini-mart type shopping (soda/snack type of thing).
Tesla owner here. In my experience, the chargers are often at a grocery store parking lot between stores. It’s plenty of time for me to go in, use the bathroom, maybe grab a snack, and get back to my car. I usually have time to spare to check my phone.
I believe MA business rates are below 46 cents so maybe it won’t climb much here. Eversource rates in MA are extremely high due to poor management. They have no incentive to lower costs. Senior management is grossly overpaid.
I'm recent EV owner (2.5 months). I live in Illinois and we have negotiated electric rates for your home. For the Non-illinois residents you or your city can take the electric provider the Utility company chooses or you can go out and find a better rate. My rate electric alone is about 0.06/Kwh but with service fees and taxes it's just under 0.13/Kwh. My local Tesla supercharger is 0.31/Kwh but others are as low as 0.17/Kwh and as high as 0.45/Kwh in central Illinois. EA is 0.48/Kwh at all the charging stations in my county and surrounding ones. My Nearest EVGo is down since I've had my car. But I do use Volta and Chargepoint at various stores. I will top off at a Chargepoint when I'm shopping since it's free the first two hours or Volta if I go to the movies. I look forward to seeing the pricing when every station is on NACS. I hope the prices goes down but everything goes up sadly.
Good video. Thanks for the update. I’m not an EV owner, but the changes make a lot of sense. I also think it is time for the EV charging stations to include the state road/gas taxes that are charged for fossil fuel vehicles. There is no reason that EV’s should not be paying road taxes especially since EV’s weigh considerably more than their ICE counterpart. Based on what I’ve seen on other RUclips channels, EA need to improve their quality and reliability of their charging stations.
I'm curious to see if EA can step up their reliability game with more competition coming, between NACS making Superchargers available to more people and NEVI funding expanding coverage and competition. I think the other main issue with EA is their origin. The company wasn't created as a for-profit business venture, it was created as a condition of the Diesel-gate settlement for VW. Don't remember which RUclipsr I heard say that, but it makes a lot of sense. EA isn't out to please customers, they just have to appease regulators.
Hurricane season well under way here in Florida. If you need to evacuate north in your EV, be sure to carry extra cans of electricity so you can make the state line.
Theoretically these prices went into effect last week, but when I went into the app all the chargers still say $0.48/kWh. I don't have the monthly pass, but I was curious what the prices would be without signing up.
I like DrKnowItAlls idea of having a electronic sign with the prices for electricity 'at that time' so it could change at time of day. The sign should be updated automatically and put up high like gas stations do (at least around me) showing the price. I also think it should show the 'public access charge fees' should be shown, not 'partner' or 'subscription' fee.
I tried to charge at an Electrify America with chademo and I could not figure out how to start the charge. Has EA stopped allowing chademo cars to charge? I downloaded the app and still I couldn't see a price or start the charge. I can use Chargepoint or EVgo instead of EA, but EA was more affordable. I notice that the fast chargers in Cobb County, Georgia (near Atlanta] now charge by the kwh instead of by the minute. These are interesting changes when you want to charge quickly.
I think the idle charge is great, but what about the case where the cable has been removed but the car didn't move. I am sure the current idle billing will not be able to detect this condition. There would have to be a sensor that can detect the present of the car to continue the idle fee when the car doesn't move.
$1.00/minute idle fees would be wonderful. Like you say, there is no good excuse for letting your fully charged car block a charging station. Imagine if people left their car sitting at a gas pump and went for dinner.
I completely game EA in my state of NH. Charged from 14 to 75 today and got it at about 21¢ per kWh. I have a new ID 4, so I get EA for free, but still.
Southern part of DE doesn't have EA chargers either, would be good to put some in the Rehoboth, Bethany and south beach areas. I've been seeing a lot of EV'S in that area and wonder where they're charging. Not at those public chargers putting out a sh*t 6kWs!
If EA were even close to being a reasonable option, I would have been okay with the increase in pricing. I ended up chucking my CCS vehicle and shifting to Tesla on account of my losing faith in EA’s ability to execute. For me, a consistent, reliable experience justifies paying more per kwH on the Supercharger network on road trips. I don’t miss queueing up behind fully charged ID.4s…
How do you punish the Tesla’s that park at Electrify America sites and don’t ever plug in just because the parking is premium like at Caesars Forum Shops in Vegas
Looks like too much fun for me. I go to any corner and "Recharge" in 3 minutes and go another 500 miles, NEVER having to worry about not finding a "Recharing" aka GAS station.
I’m 6 months in MA with very high electricity rates and 6 months in Florida with very low rates. It will be interesting to see how much it changes from 46 cents. Also, I manage a commercial charger at a FL association and only charge owners actual cost, $0.15/kWh to charge at home. EA & Tesla DC Fast chargers are much more expensive.
The only significant savings for EV charging over gas, is charging at home. On the road there isn't all that much difference. If you consider that time is money, when you factor in the additional time you'll spend charging, you may not save an money at all versus buying gas.
Charging for idle time is way past due. As far as variable pricing I don’t see why that is a problem, gasoline cost has always been “variable” from station to station and state to state. Even though I drive a MY now I still have an EA membership from past EV’s just in case I might need it. Great recap of EA’s changes.
I'm getting my Cadillac Lyric tomorrow. Found your channel, great content. GM is offering 2 years unlimited free charging or $1500 credit for Q-Merit installation. Which should I go with? My job does have charging stations and I work 5 days a week and off on weekends.
If you don't have a charger at home, take the $1500! You will charge at home 95% of the time (this has been my experience with 3 years of EV ownership and many roadtrips) I paid $800 for install of a home charger, and $700 for the charger itself, so $1500 is good deal.
When I purchased my EV I was given a 2 year free charging plan. If they gave me a choice of that, or a $1,500 credit for a home installation, I would have taken the $1,500 credit. Super Charging should be used out of necessity. It should not be Your primary charging method unless You live on the road.
@@lkuhn65Thanks I took the $1500 credit now it's a waiting game for Q-Merit. I have some Evgo chargers right around the corner from my home and some free chargers at work.
@@rsewill12Thanks I have been riding and showing my friends all day. I ended up with a luxury 2023 with 22 inch wheels black on black this car is sharp during the day and at night is a game changer. I know where some Lyriqs are. My dealer got in a few 2023 then the 2024 I ordered arrived as well but I saved a couple thousand dollars because the cars had the same exact features
Nice data....but if I was a new EV customer, even listening closely, I would be overwhelmed....concerned. I own a Tesla and wish EA could match the simplicity and transparency of the charging and cost like Tesla does. Not sure how Tesla does their simple connection/fees in all of the states. I believe EA and others need to simplify this or the combination of this and the occasional non-operation of some chargers will kill these competitive networks......please simplify so that I can charge my Tesla as easily...and reliably.... on EA or I will not be won over.
Yeah that was a complete shocker to me as a new EV owner. It's absolutely byzantine how opaque it is. I should pretty easily be able to figure out how much it's going to cost and how long it's going to take me, and it's very difficult to get to that point.
I made a mistake in the video. There are actually four states that Electrify America doesn't have any charging stations, not three. I missed West Virginia. (Hat tip to Vladi Ivanov)
Big miss there. Less than 400 miles from NYC. Less than 300 miles from DC. And NO CHARGERS. Navigate from Pittsburgh to Charlotte in a CCS vehicle: It’ll take 9 1/2 hours. No EVGO either.
well, i own a Tesla, and i'm trying to get Qmerit to install my Tesla wall connector.... but they still haven't given me an estimate yet
@@VALxTheEpicGamer Name? I'll find out what's going on.
I believe WV was the last state to get a DCFC. Currently we still only have them at dealerships, so it's really a flip of the coin if they are public. Our NEVI implementation is still unfortunately a long way off!
I had to double check when I saw your piece. Yes there is NO EA in WV. I even asked EA directly. This was their response …
Hi, Bob. While we don't currently have a location within West Virginia, we are dedicated to going where the EV community needs us. 🙂 Your request for our chargers in West Virginia has been shared with our team for review. If you have any specific location suggestions along that route in mind, please don’t hesitate to share your thoughts with us - we’d be happy to take a closer look! -LM
Important note for the occasional traveler: the last time I checked, you could sign up for Pass+ for a month and then cancel it when you were done. So if you only road trip a few times a year, just sign up before you travel and cancel/don’t renew at the end of the month of your trip and you don’t have to pay the monthly fee when you won’t use it.
Yes, this is exactly what I do.
And no one has figured that out yet? Wow!!! But, thanks for the tip. Good idea.
Tom, I agree with you about the idle fees. EA should charge $0.50 per minute. But I don't think they'll be able to charge higher fees for times when the site is fully utilized. Currently, they can't even determine which of their dispensers are up and which are down. How are they going to figure out if the whole site is full? 😄
I can totally see EA’s bonobo software charging idle fees as soon as someone rolls up and connects.
I have a Tesla and didn't know they didn't have idle fees and didn't know stations with 2 cables on each side can't charge 2 cars at the same time. That's so dumb! Why put 2 cables and not let 2 cars charge. Plus there's the dumbfu*ck ignorant drivers that use them to charge while they go into shop. They have no clue they're supposed to be used for road trips, charge and go. They make those who are on actual road trips wait because of their dumnas$ having to charge because they think they have to, A LOT of education is needed. Idle fees can help keep those drivers from sitting there holding up others that really need it.
@@ultrastoat3298 I mean shouldn't they? Most of the time you are trying to get one of them to work you are connected and not charging lol
We have been charged other people's idle fees (to max allowed) and told numerous times our grace period is over when we are miles away. We reported to EA, got refund, but doubt fixed. Chargers show available when busy and vice versa. Tom, why do you think they stopped charging idle fees to begin with?
@@mikecarter2737 haha. I knew it. EA can’t do anything right. I swear they were a Trojan horse sent by VW to show the US “how bad EVs are”, and to be fair it worked. EA continues to be rally cry for how we arnt ready for EVs.
My only concern is around the times when EA failed to realize that I had actually unplugged and left a station. Once, I had to call customer service because the app showed me as idling at a station for two months! At $0.40 per minute, that's ... give me a second ... $9200. And they've got my credit card number.
This is why I don't use EA, and why I don't intend to for the foreseeable future.
Yes, that's actually terrifying because I don't think their customer service has any kind of dispute process in place to handle erroneous fees. I've heard stories about people getting charged for kWh from the previous session because the station didn't zero out properly (e.g. started counting up from 60 kWh instead of 0 kWh after plugging in). Even though it was mathematically impossible for their car to draw the amount power claimed, EA customer service said they still have to pay and there was no way to dispute it. For example, a Chevy Bolt being charged for 75 kWh in a 30 minute session. That's more kWh than the Bolt battery could possibly hold, and the charge rate is 3x faster than the maximum possible.
I’ve had several issues with their network. App says that the charging has ended and needs to be retried but then my Rivian is definitely still charging.
Oh, my Lord! I hope that they refunded that!
Maybe they have a record showing when the next driver used it.
My 2015 Model S 85D has had free charging from the beginning. I've used it twice a year to drive down to fla from MA and then about once every two months because it's so much easier to charge at home then to drive 15 mins each way to a super charger.
I also do it during times when the chargers are all open; about 10am or 1pm.
I only pay .15 kw at home, so not really worth taking the trip.
8 years into EV ownership, owned 2 EVS with over 200k miles driven, and this has solidified the fact that I will be getting a used 2015-2016 Model S 90/100D next. The .48c a KwH was already ridiculously high for charging an EV but now it's just going to change constantly and be harder to plan. Unlimited free supercharging here I come.
It's easier to just stick with hybrids.
@@azerogliev6520agreed. Just had a Rivian for 4 months and already looking at the new Toyota Tacoma Hybrid lustfully.
As we move forward, I can imagine regulators will start looking at these charger networks just like they do gas stations today. Placing requirements to publish your their per kW prices in such a way to allow us to review before we even pull into the charging station. This will also help as the density of charging stations increases by driving competitive pricing.
Time based charging needs to be ILLEGAL. That opens the door for fraud. What tells us that chargers ain't throttled?
99% of charge pricing can be found online, in various apps.
I believe EA is now seeing the writing on the wall and they really need to buckle up. The price hike may be a bit to swallow considering how unreliable their chargers are. In addition to hardware issues, one thing I would do for faster payment processing (if you don’t use their app) is to allow immediate charging for a few minutes, then authenticate and authorize payment during charging. Maybe have a smaller screen like Rivian running Linux rather than windows based system.
Those last two legal changes to the EA account terms need to be VERY carefully scrutinized. EA is creating a legal defense to any attempt by a group of customers who want to hold the company accountable for its contemptible and miserable performance. This is a move by a company that clearly is more devoted to protecting itself from angry customers than it is to delivering decent service.
Excellent video, Thank you for all this great information
EA doesn’t have a single station in WV. The state actually doesn’t have a single DC station that is not provided by a car dealership or Tesla.
This^
Obviously the rollout of magic dock/onboarding of other car manufacturers (GM, Ford, etc) will change this. But I would greatly appreciate more DC chargers of any company in my home state. When road tripping I always have to charge up a good bit on bordering states before heading home (80% minimum).
Really? Tom missed this?
Great video Tom as always. And way to reiterate the stupid free charging that some manufacturers give that clogs up the network. You always mention this in other videos but always a good reminder to tell your less educated or new EV viewers the very seldom need to charge to 100% and on top of that the detriment of doing so all the time it has on the battery lifespan. Always a good opportunity to mention it every time. :)
One thing that I have seen from looking online is that some chargers in Quebec bill by the minute, but increase the per-minute charge at higher states of charge, basically sending a message of "you've charged enough to continue, please move along".
Thanks Tom! Great video as always. Keep up the good work! :)
Tom thank so much for the up date you have make is so clear. Thank for all that you do to hep the EV public.
I listened with great interest about the idle fees. Here in Canada, Electrify Canada (which is Electrify America with a different name) there has always been a 40 cent a minute idle fee after 10 minutes. The only time this impacted me was when the app wasn't working, a common event with Electrify Canada, and the charger stopped charging, so that when I came back I was racking up idle fees
Did you get your money back ?
Good explanation of the changes. I think with the Pass+ plan you can activate as needed. I only use EA when road tripping so instead of allowing EA to take $7 per month I’ll just go down to Pass. I still have some free charging that came with my EV6 and somehow got renewed. Also, you seemed to overlook the change for New Jersey where each EA station will now have an attendant who must plug in your car. No self service for you 😅
The NJ thing, is this for real? 😮
Thanks for the great overview as always. I recently stopped in Cranberry Township, PA and was going to charge at an EA station across from my hotel (Tesla Model Y with CCS adapter, EA Pass Plus member until a few minutes ago, the EA app showed charging by the minute), but it was totally full when I got there. So I scooted down to the Tesla Supercharger and, lo and behold, they charged by the kWh. Perhaps in PA it's regional, but somehow Tesla was able to do it. $7 isn't worth it to me anymore since I mostly travel with my Tesla and not my Kia Niro EV. I'll turn Pass+ back on on a monthly basis if I expect to use it more than about 70 kWh for the month (was 33 kWh * $0.12 difference ~ $4).
So now it is more like buying petro. You can shop around for a better price. Idle fees should start at 1$ and triple if the station is full
EA is an incredibly poorly run network, and they're going to raise prices? Yikes.
They have to as they move into the run and maintain of their future. Electrical prices have always been localized, and even gasoline prices vary by area.
Just in time for all the manufactures to switch to Tesla compatible charging
My understanding is that Electrify America came into existence as part of the settlement in the VW diesel air quality cheating scandal. A $2B judgement was made against them and creating this network is how they paid it off. But I don’t know that the requirement extended to maintaining it to any sort of availability standard.
They realize the capital they deployed is worthless! Hmmmm business model gone
They are a joke, always have a backup plan with EA JOKE OF A CHARGER!
Issue not mentioned is that the EA station RARELY charge you at the max rate of your car, so time based charging is a problem
Great info, Tom!!! Thanks!!! Makes sense. I just hope they upgrade their network so reliability isn't such a big issue.
Super clear explanation, Tom! And you nailed it on the idle fees. I’d have no problem with $5 per minute. It has to be a real deterrent against charger squatters. I’m hoping that the new pricing will fund better maintenance. I’ve talked to a couple of their techs along I-75 and it seems that they are trying harder. Also, the variable pricing makes driving costs more like gas car driving in that gas prices vary state to state as well. It will be interesting to see how those prices change.
I am surprised they maintained a nationwide uniform pricing model as long as they have. I thought they’d also charge slightly higher rates for their 350 kw vs. 150 kw units.
I really wish the 150kw cost less, that way it reduces the number of slower cars that use the 350 ones.
The fairest method of pricing is to just bill for energy dispensed. That's where per killowatt-hour pricing comes in. There shouldn't be a penalty or incentive for charging slower or faster.
However, I do agree that they need to better communicate the max charging speeds of each EV. There shouldn't be a VW ID4 clogging up 350 kW units when their max charge rate is only 135 kW.
They use to do that but there were too many tiers and it was a bit confusing and unfair in some situations
It was like
1-75kw
76-150kw
151kw-350kw
However it was based on top rate the vehicle reported it could do so for example some Hyundais reported to the charger they could do 100kw but they wouldn’t never exceed 70kw, they got charged 76-150kw fees
So they initially had a plan that was Hyundai exclusive but later made it simpler with just 2 tiers (and eliminated session fees for pass/ guest)
The 350kw chargers never work past 150kwh anyway.
@@davelavigne2133 Yeah they do, as long as they aren't broken they can output 350 kW. Probably the site you've been charging at has some degraded power modules.
All charging networks should add a feature to their app where users can report a problem with the charger. Chargers that have problems reported for them should have an indicator that others can see to identify if the issue is slow charging, broken screen or credit card reader, a completely unusable charger, or other problem.
I could see my area of the Midwest being a good candidate for a reduction but we shall see. I hope to see the "free" charging programs disappear also. Level 2, home charging incentive!
BMW is still including 3 years of EA charging with an i7 - if you can afford an i7, you can pay at EA. Geesh.
@@lkuhn65 Exactly. And it's crazy to me that some i7 owners that spent $120K on the car are willing to sit in a Walmart parking lot at 9p, for 50 minutes so they can save the $17 it would cost them to charge at home.
Free charging is great if you can then drive home and use your vehicle to supply power to your house!
Tom, Great overview of the current state and upcoming changes. If everyone watches and comprehends this, they will undoubtedly have fewer issues with the future pricing they will ensure.
What a great video, as always, explaining the details of the changes in one major network in North America. In an effort to keep the newbies up to speed consider the five factors that determine the success of EV fast-charging networks.
#1: Reliability. Most networks were built without an incentive to keep the unit working. One network, Tesla, has achieved this status.
#2: Availability. If you have a working charger, you can eventually wait, though people will gravitate towards the network that is ready immediately.
#3: Location. Gas stations learned a long time ago, location, location, location. Location includes #4 time to get back on the road, safety, and ease of use. Ease of use could be an additional factor.
#4: Time to charge. 7-minute mark in the video. This is intertwined with #3 location but is also affected by the available kW power of the charger(s) and the ability of the EV to receive that power.
#5: Cost. The cost has little impact until #1 through #4 is met. Home charging and using level 2 destination chargers minimize the impact of #5. I certainly want to be up to speed on how costs apply, and no one helps better than State of Charge. If you are new and can charge at home, this will equal ten percent of your costs. Tom's close is spot on when he talks about how to use the networks and how you should, if possible, charge at home, and how to learn good changing habits in general.
$10/min for idle fees is more than fair! Too many idiots at the charging stations these days.
Idle fees are important, but I think the 10 minute grace period is ok since idle fees start when the charging sessions ends, not when you are done charging. So if the station fails and you’ve just walked to the bathroom, not you need to hurt up and get back to your car to restart the charge.
And the app is so bad that it seems every time I charge the app says the session failed but the charger is still charging. So you can’t depend on the app for anything.
Agree on the idle fees, I'd make it more onerous! Five minutes after stopping charging is perfectly adequate. I read the email to say that you have to look at the individual dispenser at the time to really know what the rate is at the time. I read it to say that the fee will be changing dynamically. Sure makes planning difficult, substantially more difficult if each station in a particular area could have a different rate. It would be like no gas stations advertising their prices until you pull up to the pump! Something that changed post WWII.
I read it would be available in the app, but I haven't seen it in the app yet, and the new pricing is supposedly live. (I also don't have the monthly pass yet.)
I am one of those people who got free supercharging with my Tesla and I’m going during the summer because I have to run my AC so much and my solar system is not large enough to offset the cost of charging at home. Once I stop using my AC, I’ll charge at home.
I think these changes make sense. However, I take issue with the fact that the in-app pricing is not always going to be accurate. The chargers are connected to the internet, and the app is connected to the internet, there is NO REASON the displayed pricing shouldn't match. Absolutely absurd!
Admittedly, seven dollars per month is substantially more than four dollars a month, but the savings is so substantial that if you are using the public network, it’s always a good deal. Tesla charges $12.99 per month for their discounted membership. And that only gets you access to 10 charging stations across the United States currently.😂
I am also very happy that they are going to charge idle fees. I've seen a car with over 80 minutes of idle time which made me so disappointed on a station that was full.
Thank you for doing this video it helps to inform everyone on the changing increases on the real cost of EV ownership. Here in Colorado Electrify America has been charging idle fees. I think we should pay less if their stations are limiting output like I experience 80percent of the time. Im not a fan of this company.
When I bought my EV6, Kia's EA incentive was 1,000kWh that expires after three years. Don't know if that's changed, but not all manufacturers gave unlimited sessions.
I also have an EV6 and the 1000 kWh free is one of the best and fairest charging plans. You don't get people hogging up stations trying to get free charging.
The absolute worst offenders are VW ID4 owners since they get unlimited charging for 2 years and their cars charge fairly slow. Our E-GMP brethren, the Ioniq 5 gets 2 years unlimited, but at least it has the fast charging curve like all E-GMP cars.
@@ArtiePenguin1 Some I5 owners got 3 years if they put a deposit at launch though Hyundai and actually took delivery.
It's also for kWh, not a certainly dollar amount, so regardless of how much they charge or the time of day, it's the same credit.
Another possible hiccup with idle fees is when the charger errors out early in your session. If you're expecting a 40 minute charge and it erroneously quit after 5, that will hurt. (Sure, make sure app and notifications are working.)
Tom,, I agree with the free charging incentives. I have a 2021 ID.4 with the totally unlimited plan. However, I have hardly ever used the free charging. I had a home charger for the first two years and paid about $20 a month to charge. It was worth it for the convenience of not driving to the EA charger two miles away. I have recently moved to a Condo Association, where home EV charging is not allowed. Fortunately, I live in an area that supports EV infrastructure, and there are lots of Level 2 charging options around entertainment districts. These were put in by the local utility and charge 16 cents a Kwh. Managed to add about 100 miles yesterday after going to see Oppenheimer. Do like having the free charging on road trips however! Hate it when there's a car done charging at the only working charger.
Thanks Tom, I cancelled my Pass+ after watching this video.
This is why it pays to be a military veteran. The military base, I live near town has EV chargers located between the gym and the bowling alley on the base. The chargers are covered by solar powered cover pavilions. 4 1772 and a level 2 tesla charger. The 1772's are 6.6 KW and the level 2 Tesla is 7.2 KW power levels. Tom if you live close to a military base; become an MWR member. Most bases have a level 2 charger somewhere on base.
Im curious if you can game the system. Sign up for the pass+ during a trip, then go back to the regular pass membership when you're not traveling.
Yes, I have done this in the past. You do have to pay for the full month, there's no pro-rating or refund if you cancel earlier. And you have to remember to stop the auto-renewal. Otherwise, that works fine.
I agree with these changes, I just didn't know about the inability to charge per kWh rather than per min. That idle fee amount needs to be higher it's $1/min at Tesla Superchargers here in Australia(imagine similar to US) and other charging networks are following the same model with $1/min after the first 10min once charging completes. I don't count charging bays as parking bays they are for charging not parking, pull in charge and leave.
Instead of free Level 3 charging how about including a Level 2 charger with the vehicle? That would make a lot more sense for most buyers long-term. I know that renters wouldn't necessarily benefit from this change.
I charge at home and only occasionally depend on EA for long trips. BUT in my experience most of the time the stations either don't work or are blocked by those dreadful VW ID whatevers.
When Tesla Superchargers open for other cars, EA will see less traffic at their sites; probably mostly those VWS.
I agree. ID4 owners are (generally) the worst. Especially when they tie up 350 kW chargers when their max charge rate is only 140 kW. At least most Bolt EV owners tend to be self-aware of how painfully slow their car DC charges.
@@ArtiePenguin1 lol so true.
@@ArtiePenguin1Some say the chargers don’t output their full ratings. So, the only way to even get close to 140KW is to use the 350 chargers.
@webcomment8895 Hmm, that's bizarre. The 175 kW EA stations output up to 375 amps, so that should allow a 400 volt EV up to 140 kW of power. That's assuming all power modules are working.
It's a bit annoying to see slower charging EVs occupying the 350 kW unit when my EV6 can take up to 240 kW.
Tom, you always do a great job, thanks for all your work!
Tom, great video explaining the new rates and billing details with EA.
😊
If they are going to charge more for time in some states, you’d think they would charge at the max rates the whole time in order to not punish the customers unnecessarily, because if you have an 800V car, they don’t currently consistently charge at the max rate like Tesla does so you’ll end up paying more then you have to because the station isn’t giving the full power like it should. I hope they fix this soon!
Idle fees are definitely needed. Thank you.
Tom, you are the best, excellent report
I like the site that Kyle reported on in Texas at a Cadillac dealer that was the only EV charger for many miles and had an idle fee of like $50 yes dollars not cents, per minute!
Tom, Regarding Idle fee notifications. Tesla gives you a 10 minute cumulative warning. 5 minutes before charging ends plus 5 minutes after. The one improvement I wish they would add is a built in active countdown Timer so you can see how long you have to get back to your vehicle.
Some of the charger locations are quite a walk from the host businesses (large parking lots)
I look at the estimated time to finish charging and set a countdown on my watch, then I know when to start heading back. The reminders help too and never had problems getting back in time. I've been charged idle fees a few times when I've been held up but it's not a big deal.
@@gabem8119 I received a first time warning once when I was at a location and got delayed returning to the vehicle due circumstances beyond my control. Yesterday, a similar situation happened. I got the message notification but didn’t hear the alert sound on my phone. When I did finally see the message I looked at it and realized there was no Easy way to tell when I had received it. yes it has a time stamp. But I’m talking about a large obvious way to see how much time had passed since I received the notification. Fortunately, I was the only one at this location so even had I gone over in time I would not have been charged for it.
In VA, EVGo chargers by the minute. EA charges by the KWH. Makes it hard to compare the two. We need every company to be able to charge by the KWH.
What does Tesla do in states that require the per minute charging? Do they charge per minute?
You pay gas in different price in different cities/states.
The only issue I have with the idle fees is that those of us who have manufacturer plans don’t get to use the EA app, and manufacturer apps are very unreliable when it comes to notifications about charge status.
Not an issue when it works, but when their charger fails 5 minutes after I walk away from what I expect to be a 30 minute charge, I end up with 15 minutes of idle fees.
I'm kind of surprised that the app doesn't necessarily have the most up-to-date price. How is that possible that the app can be constantly updated with the state of charge but not with the price?
They probably just added that for legal reasons in case the app glitches or doesn't update. If they didn't say that, you'd have a lot of people complaining that they paid more than the app showed.
In 99% of cases, the app will show the correct pricing at a station.
@@ArtiePenguin1 If that's correct, I haven't seen it in the app yet.
@JoeCarlinCA Station pricing doesn't appear to have changed yet. I charged on Saturday and it was still the same 48 or 36 cents a killowatt-hour. The app also reflects no change to pricing yet. EA's backend programming is really lacking.
This is really weird Francis energy in Tulsa Oklahoma charges 39 cents per minute not kwh, Plus a $1 connection fee. A lot of people complain that there are 200 kw stations only put out 50 kW of power- Sometimes but not all the time.
19:30 I agree with idle fees, but they really need to fix the app. It's often super delayed with the current state of charge and crashes often on me. You even say it in the Outro, they have to fix the app. That's going to get them in trouble for not clearly advertising the service fees before rendering the service.
Thanks for reminding to cancel my pass+ subscription 🙂 I bought the CCS adapter for my Tesla months ago and haven't used it a single time since; living in California, I didn't really realize I could save a lot of money on Electrify America vs. Tesla network, but the real reason for getting EA was for charging my leaf, which I don't plan to use anymore anyway. And TBH, the few times I tried using EA, either there were no available chargers, or they were out of service. So yeah, not a fan.
These changes are really not that bad - especially the idle fees. Wish there were idle fees for gas stations!
How will you have idle fees for gas? When that clip pops and you're full, why would anyone leave the nozzle in there and stand around?
If EA doesn't get their act together they won't have to worry about their dynamic pricing... Frankly there isn't any other infrastructure so it really doesn't matter what they are charging. If you need a charge you are going to use them no matter what. At least we have the heads up that we may be surprised at how expensive charging has become.
EA with credit card readers that don't work, derated chargers, down chargers... I can only hope and pray the areas I am driving through that I don't have to use EA. It is just too dodgy. Sadly some of my road trips require driving through EA areas and it is frankly frightening with no plan b if things are toast. I don't know why there isn't congressional inquiries into these charging networks. If they are taking public money they should be held accountable for reliability.
Putting the hammer down for idle time is good. It should be $1 minute or even more... Put the hammer down. Also they need to start capping the sessions for these people with the free charging. Keep people moving.
Hopefully this works for them as its badly needed the current process an reliability is terrible. We need all EV chargers to be working properly 100% of the time.
Thanks for the update. I only occasionally use EA chargers but had kept the PASS+ membership out of convenience due to the relatively low monthly cost. With the increase from $4/month to $7/month, it’s no longer worth it to me. Interestingly, when I went on my EA app to cancel, it shows that my plan will change to the regular PASS membership on 8/3/23, even though I didn’t request this. I’m wondering if users that don’t regularly use their membership are being auto-switched so they don’t get blindsided by the 75% cost increase? There is an option where I can select KEEP MY PASS+ MEMBERSHIP, but I won’t be choosing to do so. 🤨
It is amazing that nearly every gas station has simple credit card that works, yet many EV chargers don't have this feature or it doesn't work. $0.48/kWh is a rip off, especially in states with cheaper electricity
I mean, they do have to make a profit off the electricity. Maintenance costs money, expansion costs money, servers cost money. Now, I have no idea what the competition is charging for delivering power at the same speed, but I also don't expect to pay the 4.33¢/kWh that I get at home off-peak. We'll have to see what they start charging come August...
@@WarpedFlayme
In addition to all of the above, it's also worth noting that you're only billed for the energy that actually flows into your car, but a fair price must also account for energy that is lost to heat within the charger, energy which the driver is never billed for directly. For example, conversion of power from AC to DC loses energy to heat, as does shoving the energy through wires at high power. To avoid overheating, the chargers also need liquid cooling, which consumes even more energy.
The only way for the charging company to pay for the energy consumed that doesn't flow into the car is to charge above-utility rates for the energy that does.
With uniform pricing, the consumers in states with lower electric costs have been subsidizing the price of electricity in states with higher electric costs. Site specific rates let the local market set the price for everyone. As for the general price increase, I'm sure EA has to pay Tesla a licensing fee, so that has to be covered by the consumer. As for idle time, I'd prefer double the charge rate after five minutes.
The funny thing about the free charging plan that I have and use is that I wasn't even aware of it until I was already dedicated to buying the car.
A price hike for a system that rarely works?
There is a secondary point..... Some states have subsidized the installation of the charging station, like New York State. All of the EA New York locations subsidized by Evolve New York mandate the maximum rate EA can charge at these Stations.
In the states where EA is charging by the minute, is tesla also charging by the minute? A quick google search shows tesla charging by the kWh in Texas, but your map shows Texas only allows charging by the minute.
Good informative video, Tom. EA is such a unreliable, trash charging network, I avoid at all costs. Home charging is a necessity. If someone cannot charge at home or at their workplaces, EV ownership will likely not be their best option, maybe buy a hybrid instead 😮
Or get a Tesla 😉. So far, I’ve had no issues with their charging network.
@@jacobvriesema6633 No need to soon since most are adopting NACS and will have the ability to use the Tesla network. It will be a good thing.
@@JarredSutherland indeed, although I’m not sure how the money integration will work with payments. With Tesla, the charger uses your credit card on file.
Clear and informative as always. Great video. Thanks.
Totally agree about charging fees.
I do wonder about the notification and the 10 minute grace period. If someone is shopping, they might be more than 10 minutes away. Would be nice if the station could notify you not when it is done, but when it is at xx percent (i.e. 90%). In fact that way, you could remove the grace period and just make sure you get notified in time to get back to your car when it is just about done.
Of course, this is less of an issue the faster a car charges.
In my Bolt, I easily have an hour "quick charge" session when travelling. Say 20% to 85%.
With an hour, I can get food or go shopping.
I picked that because we almost never QC, but the one trip we do a couple of times a year, it is like that. I need one charge and it takes 50 minutes to an hour to get me to where I can reach my destination without hitting orange on the gauge when we arrive, which is nice in case the hotel charging isn't working/is full/etc and I have to take the car elsewhere to charge.
Of course, I don't need notification because I don't charge my car to full during those times ("Once charging stops" when grace/idle starts according to the EA site) and I watch the app, but if I did it more frequently, I could see that being nice...
But if I am in a faster charging car and it will be done in 20 minutes, then I'm not leaving my car except for mini-mart type shopping (soda/snack type of thing).
Tesla owner here. In my experience, the chargers are often at a grocery store parking lot between stores. It’s plenty of time for me to go in, use the bathroom, maybe grab a snack, and get back to my car. I usually have time to spare to check my phone.
I anticipate Massachusetts rates per minute are going to skyrocket!
I believe MA business rates are below 46 cents so maybe it won’t climb much here. Eversource rates in MA are extremely high due to poor management. They have no incentive to lower costs. Senior management is grossly overpaid.
I'm recent EV owner (2.5 months). I live in Illinois and we have negotiated electric rates for your home. For the Non-illinois residents you or your city can take the electric provider the Utility company chooses or you can go out and find a better rate. My rate electric alone is about 0.06/Kwh but with service fees and taxes it's just under 0.13/Kwh. My local Tesla supercharger is 0.31/Kwh but others are as low as 0.17/Kwh and as high as 0.45/Kwh in central Illinois. EA is 0.48/Kwh at all the charging stations in my county and surrounding ones. My Nearest EVGo is down since I've had my car. But I do use Volta and Chargepoint at various stores. I will top off at a Chargepoint when I'm shopping since it's free the first two hours or Volta if I go to the movies. I look forward to seeing the pricing when every station is on NACS. I hope the prices goes down but everything goes up sadly.
Good video. Thanks for the update. I’m not an EV owner, but the changes make a lot of sense. I also think it is time for the EV charging stations to include the state road/gas taxes that are charged for fossil fuel vehicles. There is no reason that EV’s should not be paying road taxes especially since EV’s weigh considerably more than their ICE counterpart. Based on what I’ve seen on other RUclips channels, EA need to improve their quality and reliability of their charging stations.
I'm curious to see if EA can step up their reliability game with more competition coming, between NACS making Superchargers available to more people and NEVI funding expanding coverage and competition.
I think the other main issue with EA is their origin. The company wasn't created as a for-profit business venture, it was created as a condition of the Diesel-gate settlement for VW. Don't remember which RUclipsr I heard say that, but it makes a lot of sense. EA isn't out to please customers, they just have to appease regulators.
Hurricane season well under way here in Florida. If you need to evacuate north in your EV, be sure to carry extra cans of electricity so you can make the state line.
OH jeez, another one of these, LOL
Theoretically these prices went into effect last week, but when I went into the app all the chargers still say $0.48/kWh. I don't have the monthly pass, but I was curious what the prices would be without signing up.
I like DrKnowItAlls idea of having a electronic sign with the prices for electricity 'at that time' so it could change at time of day. The sign should be updated automatically and put up high like gas stations do (at least around me) showing the price. I also think it should show the 'public access charge fees' should be shown, not 'partner' or 'subscription' fee.
I tried to charge at an Electrify America with chademo and I could not figure out how to start the charge. Has EA stopped allowing chademo cars to charge? I downloaded the app and still I couldn't see a price or start the charge. I can use Chargepoint or EVgo instead of EA, but EA was more affordable. I notice that the fast chargers in Cobb County, Georgia (near Atlanta] now charge by the kwh instead of by the minute. These are interesting changes when you want to charge quickly.
Awesome video Tom, thanks for doing this!
I think the idle charge is great, but what about the case where the cable has been removed but the car didn't move. I am sure the current idle billing will not be able to detect this condition. There would have to be a sensor that can detect the present of the car to continue the idle fee when the car doesn't move.
$1.00/minute idle fees would be wonderful. Like you say, there is no good excuse for letting your fully charged car block a charging station. Imagine if people left their car sitting at a gas pump and went for dinner.
Haven't charged since March... I used to be a pass+ member.... Now I'm not. I don't know why. Maybe my card expired??
I completely game EA in my state of NH. Charged from 14 to 75 today and got it at about 21¢ per kWh. I have a new ID 4, so I get EA for free, but still.
Just canceled my Pass+. Thanks for the info!
Just wanted to make a correction, there are no EA stations in WV as well. Currently the only non Tesla DCFC we have are at dealerships.
Southern part of DE doesn't have EA chargers either, would be good to put some in the Rehoboth, Bethany and south beach areas. I've been seeing a lot of EV'S in that area and wonder where they're charging. Not at those public chargers putting out a sh*t 6kWs!
Come to the Bridgewater NJ supercharger between midnight and 4am! $0.14/kwh. I randomly stopped there very late and was pleasantly surprised.
If EA were even close to being a reasonable option, I would have been okay with the increase in pricing. I ended up chucking my CCS vehicle and shifting to Tesla on account of my losing faith in EA’s ability to execute. For me, a consistent, reliable experience justifies paying more per kwH on the Supercharger network on road trips. I don’t miss queueing up behind fully charged ID.4s…
EA Chargers in the Baltimore area are charging $.56 a kwh, even with a Pass Membership.
How do you punish the Tesla’s that park at Electrify America sites and don’t ever plug in just because the parking is premium like at Caesars Forum Shops in Vegas
Does New Jersey require attendants to connect your EVs like they do for pumping gas?
Looks like too much fun for me. I go to any corner and "Recharge" in 3 minutes and go another 500 miles, NEVER having to worry about not finding a "Recharing" aka GAS station.
I wish that was done at truck stops. Drivers do not leave the pumps when the truck is fueled.
I’m 6 months in MA with very high electricity rates and 6 months in Florida with very low rates. It will be interesting to see how much it changes from 46 cents.
Also, I manage a commercial charger at a FL association and only charge owners actual cost, $0.15/kWh to charge at home. EA & Tesla DC Fast chargers are much more expensive.
The only significant savings for EV charging over gas, is charging at home. On the road there isn't all that much difference. If you consider that time is money, when you factor in the additional time you'll spend charging, you may not save an money at all versus buying gas.
Charging for idle time is way past due. As far as variable pricing I don’t see why that is a problem, gasoline cost has always been “variable” from station to station and state to state. Even though I drive a MY now I still have an EA membership from past EV’s just in case I might need it. Great recap of EA’s changes.
My experience with notifications is, by the time I get the notification it's too late. The car has been idling for a while.
EA should pay a .50 per minute when a charger is down, money goes back to customers that were have problems charging!
I'm getting my Cadillac Lyric tomorrow. Found your channel, great content. GM is offering 2 years unlimited free charging or $1500 credit for Q-Merit installation. Which should I go with? My job does have charging stations and I work 5 days a week and off on weekends.
If you don't have a charger at home, take the $1500! You will charge at home 95% of the time (this has been my experience with 3 years of EV ownership and many roadtrips) I paid $800 for install of a home charger, and $700 for the charger itself, so $1500 is good deal.
When I purchased my EV I was given a 2 year free charging plan. If they gave me a choice of that, or a $1,500 credit for a home installation, I would have taken the $1,500 credit. Super Charging should be used out of necessity. It should not be Your primary charging method unless You live on the road.
Congrats on getting delivery of your Lyriq! I ordered one and have no idea when it will arrive.
@@lkuhn65Thanks I took the $1500 credit now it's a waiting game for Q-Merit. I have some Evgo chargers right around the corner from my home and some free chargers at work.
@@rsewill12Thanks I have been riding and showing my friends all day. I ended up with a luxury 2023 with 22 inch wheels black on black this car is sharp during the day and at night is a game changer. I know where some Lyriqs are. My dealer got in a few 2023 then the 2024 I ordered arrived as well but I saved a couple thousand dollars because the cars had the same exact features
Nice data....but if I was a new EV customer, even listening closely, I would be overwhelmed....concerned. I own a Tesla and wish EA could match the simplicity and transparency of the charging and cost like Tesla does. Not sure how Tesla does their simple connection/fees in all of the states. I believe EA and others need to simplify this or the combination of this and the occasional non-operation of some chargers will kill these competitive networks......please simplify so that I can charge my Tesla as easily...and reliably.... on EA or I will not be won over.
Yeah that was a complete shocker to me as a new EV owner. It's absolutely byzantine how opaque it is. I should pretty easily be able to figure out how much it's going to cost and how long it's going to take me, and it's very difficult to get to that point.