I should also mention - For most people and most use cases having an EV in the winter is really great. I can plug in at home, warm up the car from my app, and then once I use shore power to heat the cabin / battery I don’t really see much higher consumption than the summer (maybe 15-20% at the most). Even if I don’t preheat the consumption is high at the beginning of the drive and then levels out after 15 minutes or so. This video just focuses on the road trip scenario where the road closes. Thanks for watching!
For example Model Y (with heat pump) uses about 420 kWh/mile in the winter. You should add 15% charging loss on top of that. Otherwise solid performance.
Agreed, it's very convenient. I love my Tesla in winter too. However, consumption drop is more like 30% to 40% during peak winter here in Toronto and this is what a lot of other Tesla owners report in Canada. In -30 celsius I recently got just only 170 KM, i.e just over 100 miles (long range Model Y- 23)
My wife and kids were stuck in a I-90 closure for hours on Snoqualmie Pass in December 2022. Our ID.4 kept them toasty and safe while consuming about 5% SoC per hour. The experience gave us all more confidence in the cold-weather performance of EVs. EDIT: I should note that we've switched over to EVs entirely since that episode on I-90 a year ago. Do what you want, but we're never going back!
@Tron-Jockey I don't think the highway concern is a real problem. What seem to be the problem in Chicago is low charge and waiting at a recharge station. That drivers are running out of charge and blocking the chargers.
@@Dularr Days? Not really. I've been driving for nearly 30 years and I've never been stuck for days (not even when I lived in Alaska). Plan ahead and don't be dumb - words to live by. Granted, I've driven ICE much longer than EV, but FWIW the only significant issues I've ever had with cold weather driving was my 4 Runner not starting at -25F (even with the block heater plugged in). Also got sh!tty mileage with winter-blend gas.
I like a lot of people probably make sure the tank is full or the car is charged when driving in colder conditions. Doesn't really matter to me whether it's an EV or a ICE car. Preparation is preparation no matter what you're driving.
It does matter. An out of fuel situation is far easier to fix in an ICE car. Or maybe you have a friend who can bring you a 5 gallon can of electricity for your EV?
Also too, if you are in an electric vehicle and find yourself stranded on a highway, try to get most of your warmth through the heated seat. They're much more efficient at transferring heat into you than air is.
Exactly! My heated seats in the Lightning are much more efficient than the air and honestly a temp of like 62° is super sufficient in the extreme cold vs 72° (sounds hot actually!)
@@brandonhayneswell I just did a trip from Florida to North dakota and lost most of my heat functionality in Georgia. Even with seat heat it was miserable. Never so glad to get home and get feeling back in my feet again. Coldest I saw was minus 9F. At home at least every winter we see overnight lows of minus 30 and daytime highs of minus 20. Seat heat ain't going to cut it. My safety and comfort is worth more to me than theoretically saving a few bucks.
@@howebrad4601 Wow! That does sound like a miserable trip! My comments are more about survival and basic comfort vs desired comfort. Your battery would last much longer if you had to use just heated seats and limited heated air in an emergency situation. Hope you are well and be safe out there!
@@howebrad4601how did you lose your heat in Georgia? Maybe a small portable backup solar generator like a Pecron to use an electric blanket or small heater. If I was headed to North Dakota in the winter that would be the first item in my car for safety and convenience.
My problem with heated seats is they provide heat to exactly where I don't need it. My ass is the last thing that needs extra heat applied. Even if the heat transfers through me over time, I'd rather freeze than have a sweaty uncomfortably warm butt. Heated steering wheel, however, is the bomb. I could probably drive in the cold with no cabin heat as long as I have a heated steering wheel.
Wife was caught in the big storm (yesterday) in the Colorado mountains waiting (2hours) to get through Eisenhower tunnel. She was smart and filled up before the trip. No issues with enough battery. Only issue was the superchargers were not 100% on line, and there were many that needed to charge. -6-10° for the duration of the 7hour trip. Thanks Kyle for your logical approach to the reality of owning an electric car.
@@concinnus Not as bad as it sounds, buddy heaters are rated for indoor use actually. propane burns cleanly, I've tested it with fully enclosed car interior with a CO detector. After 1 hour, zero CO level.
"Mountain Man Tesla" has by far the best test for this. Because you aren't going to be doing stop and go in a situation like this that lasts more than a few miles. He sits like you would if stuck in a blizzard. And he spend enough time for the battery to lose its heat to the elements. The video is called "surviving the snow in an electric car". He camps in his Model Y.
Very nice Kyle. My position is this, the same people who run out of charge in extreme conditions, are the same people who run out of gas under those same conditions.
One of the reasons I bought a Camry Hybrid instead is that with a full tank it can run AC or heat FOREVER. I live in California and the day may come where a truly dangerous heat wave comes through and my plan is to hop in the car and drive to the ocean. That may take 10 or 20 hours instead of the normal 40 minutes while everyone else tries to do it at the same time. If it's 110+ I'll still have AC creeping through traffic while people are running out of gas and charge.
I remember Bjorn Nyland doing winter tests years ago. He would sleep in the car in "camp mode." One time he did a kind of like sauna test, turning up the heat so they were sweating in the car for hours.
I have a model Y I park in the garage. It is my emergency shelter if the power go out. We just had a freeze with ice in Houston, TX. Before the weather arrived I charged to 80%(typically I charge to 70% nightly). I have a camping memory foam mattress that fits perfectly with the seats down. The wife, dogs and myself have a place to stay warm and can watch movies. 😁😁
It’s the season. ‘Warm time’ is like the winter a seasonal and intense version of range anxiety. This question takes over public news EVERY winter when temps go below 20F. So many of the EV ‘worries’ are just fear of the unknown. Thanks for bringing EXPERIENCE to the front line, Kyle!!
It's normal to be wary of the unknown but sadly it is transformed into fear by the bigoil propaganda cells, that are fearmongering and spreading disinformation through massmedia, which is happy to oblige. Why happy to oblige?! You see ads on tv and radio from oil related companies right?! Do you see from EV companies?! Nope. So mass media is saying what the oil company wants, and not the objective truth. Long gone are the days of fair and objective journalism. This is valid for everything you see and hear, as it's the side of the one paying money to the one speaking to you.
Like Kyle's test was so scientific? LOL... Plus since vehicles do get stuck, it's still valid information. And on the pantheon of misleading information that Tesla gives out this is relatively a minor issue.
@@Skeppyberry I mean mine can do a bit under 48 hours but I have a 20 gallon tank and my car only uses a tickle over half a gallon per hour while idling but yeah most cars don't have tanks that large
Bjorn Nyland does this test every day in Norway it seems haha ;) his 1000km trips in the frigid north are almost weekly! And he does them in a super wide variety of EV. You need to find yourself a Marcusbil
Kyle taking the hit for us all. Sitting in a car for an hour. And Alyssa too for the outside footage! Neighbors: "There go those two again. Another crazy, random EV test. They were made for each other."
I camped in my niro in freezing temps, lowest 14F. The hybrid battery keeps the heater running all night, and the combustion engine seemed to turn on every 30 minutes for about 5 minutes at a time. I burned about 0.5 gallons of gas for the 8 hours of staying warm and sleeping. I did take the passenger seat out, to have a comfortable full length mattress through the entire compartment, so it was like the perfect winter camping pod.
If you were that worried you'd have a blanket in the car. With a blanket and heated seats and everything else off you'd likely die due to lack of water before freezing to death.
Facts and with that i would def get thristy enough to f around and thaw some snow to have water even tho i couldnt boil it - i still would try if it came down that no water and its snowing outsidd
If you have a way to plug in an immersion heater and you bring a thermos, you have a way to melt and boil water for drinking and food. I brought that with me recently on a mountain trip in my MSP. In that case, you’d probably die of boredom first.
I spent 2 hours travelling 15 miles in snow this morning in my 6 year old bmw i3. I didn’t realise I was supposed to be worried 😂. I used less energy than normal as I was crawling along. Toasty and warm all the way
Over fill is great advice. We are getting more extreme conditions across the planet, especially in winter. Carry water and a blanket. If you know there going to be snow carry a shovel. I have some hand warmers that can be recharged so, if needed I can just use the heated seats to keep my body warm and the hand warmers for either my hands, my feet or to rest my head against. In deep snow an Ev has the advantage of not pumping out fumes. If you are in an ICE vehicle you need to have a way to keep the exhaust clear.
Charged my 2024 Cadillac Lyriq to full last night. I have a LECTRON V-box step 2 charger at 40A. Woke up this morning, got in, set the traction to SNOW... Drove to work. Drove home. Car performed flawlessly. We had snow and ice last night. 29'F.
KYLE!! I can't believe you are at 200K, i been with you since the start, i cant wait to your journey to 500K and than 1 million!! keep up the good work my dude :)
In winter time ALWAYS be prepared when you go out regardless of what you drive. Amazon sells great heated seat covers that plugs into your cigarette lighter or usb. You should be prepared. Carry extra sock, jackets, gloves, wool blanket. And some water and a snack. (Snacks and water mostly to help you stay calm and relax)
Funny how ICE car owners will never let their tank go under half full when the weather gets iffy, but the idea that you should keep some reserve juice in the battery seems completely crazy to them.
bc frost will form inside the tank and that water will go to the bottom of tank and into your fuel system. that's why we use a bottle of iso-heat with every fill up to keep the water at a minimum. plus if you do slide into a ditch you have fuel to keep the engine running to keep you warm when help arrives in some cases if you live in a rural area it can take a couple of hours without bad weather. there was a bed multi vehicle accident less the 5 years ago at least 70 cars were totalled it took 6 hours to help everyone that was involved bc of the weather
@@brutushobbiesYour fuel is already 10% alcohol, that little bottle of iso heat ain't doing a darn thing. Water is miscable in gasoline. Water vapor can't form in the tank as water has to get into the tank. Not only does cold air hold very little water your evap system prevents free exchange of atmosphere into the fuel tank.
One thing I've noticed having been accidentally IN this situation, is that the heat output dropped and the car got colder as I got below 5-10% SoC. (Model 3)
My parents just were stuck for 10 hours on i5 in Oregon in their 2019 PTC heat model s. It appeared to use about 2%/hr on standard auto settings with 20f+snow temperatures outside. When they set the climate to recirculate and no AC, the usage dropped to 2 epa miles per hour meaning ~150 hours for 100-0%!!
Hold on here in Sweden we had a blistered a couple of weeks ago and it was a big kerfuffle because the hiway E22 was totally gridlocked for a couple of days. And the the cars that survived best was EVs because they had camping mode (like :-) )… check it out. Kyle, keep up the good work.
Thanks for sharing that info. It's a shame that some people have to wear their photographic negative glasses, where black is white and vice versa. It's like they wear them on principle, because reality doesn't live up to their expectations.
Looking at the weather record on time and date website says you had light snow and the weather was above 20 degrees Fahrenheit. What city was this blizzard in? Also, 20 f compared to the -8 with 15 mile an hour winds would make a big difference in battery performance. Camping mode wouldn’t do much in this situation as thousands found it with this arctic blast.
@@donrainesohwho are these thousands you refer to? I used Camp mode in my Y February 2023 in a cross country trip. Didn’t have any problem and didn’t charge any differently than I normally do on road trips. I suspect that you are ignorant about EV usage from your comments and your emphasis on
@@bigdougscommentary5719 have you looked at Reddit? A bunch of prissy fools like you on there whining about their Tesla. They weren’t preconditioning and therefore charge times took longer and their range was lower than it would be even in these colder temps. Unwad your panties and realize it isn’t about you. The internet holds all the information you need. It shows that your February 2023 trip was during the warmest February recorded in 20 years. I own a 2020 model 3 and live in Ohio. I lose minimal range, but my car is garaged and never truly freezes like Chicago etc did this week. Sorry your ego is so easily bruised.
Seems like a pretty accurate example of how to expect a ev to perform on both ends of the spectrum and I didn't realize my plaid had that de-ice feature for the front windshield I guess you learn something new everyday 👍🏾
Kyle the recent videos are killing it. Great content, super interesting and useful. Personally, when I'm in freezing weather I have a jacket on in the car and I'm fine with the cabin set to 64F. In fact, I find 72F unbearly hot with a jacket on. So you've truly done worst case here by using 72F, the better choice so nobody could possibly find fault. But I'd venture to say the consumption would be meaningfully lower at 64F setpoint.
Kyle. I noticed 1 major mishap. Many cars that "died" were cold battery going to charge first thing in the morning (like your model 3 in this test) BUTT they also had navigate to supercharger on the nav. So take that energy usage you say (2kw /mi) and add another 1.5-2kw/ mile for preconditioning. 4kw per mile would nuke a base car in only 10-20 miles (assuming the system never could overcome the cold soak) that's what I saw on many that had issues.
If I left my house in Evergreen/Conifer and drove to Dillon to ski, and then returned home the same day, I'd get back with 45% battery if I had left home with 98%. Nice buffer I would say. ..... But you do make great points about driving in the winter, especially I-70. Horrible traffic jams are common and shutdowns happen too. Leave home with at least 98% battery for a reserve. Great video. Best one I've seen on the topic.
If they have a slow charger at the ski area, you could drive home with a mostly full or full battery. Which is not necessary, but I only thought of it in the context of getting stuck on the highway in a snowstorm.
With my 2019 bolt EV I have 20 bars of power on my dash. I use 1 bar per hour with the car running in -35c weather and heat on and music playing. So the bolt can sit quite a while.
I have a 2015 Smart ForTwo electric, which has garbage range and uses a normal heater, no fancy heat pump. And I still am not scared of "being stuck in traffic" beyond maybe stuck for several hours in heavy traffic. Not that I'm ever in traffic with that vehicle but it doesn't really scare me much.
This was already proven by the lady who was stuck in a blizzard on the highway in a Tesla a couple of years back. People in gas cars had to find shelter.
You need to cover the impact on public charging stations during cold weather. With less range, you expect more demand on charging. Do charging stations get full requiring wait? How long will one wait?
A bonus of EVs is being able to heat it up while still in the garage. However, the thought of dealing with any charging issues when it’s around 0 F is not on my favored list. I’m hoping better battery tech gets us to 400+ mile range to better able to charge to 100% in winter and minimize the need to stop on longer day trips.
Last week, we got stuck in traffic because of a snowstorm and a bridge closure. It took us 15 mins to go to the appointment and 3 hours to get back home. Car is a 2022 Tesla Model 3 SR and it was charged at 100% when we left. It took 8% for the first part of the trip, 5% while I waited for an hour listening to Netflix with heat and 22% for the three hours stuck in traffic at -7 celcius for a 634 Wh/km. We had to blast the heater a few times to clear the windows. All in all, it wasn't so bad and I was never worried.
For your anecdote to have meaningful significance, it would be good to know full mileage traveled. Based on that 35% charge depletion and your .634 kWh/km metric, that works out to 31.7 km traveled, or 20 miles. The EPA lists the efficiency of that car at .142 kWh/km, which means your efficiency was 22% of it's normal efficiency, or nearly 5 times worse than the EPA metric for that trip. Since your round trip was 20 miles, then 10 miles on the first part consumed 8%, and you would have been able to travel 112 miles consuming 90% battery SoC in those conditions, which equates to a .57 kWh/mi (or .357 kWh/km) efficiency, or the range roughly cut in half and efficiency a little over 2x worse than normal.
@@RT-mv7df you are right and you were close 33,40 km. It was 36% in real total. A couple of percent were lost. I do have Teslafi so it’s pretty well documented. I used 14.8 kWh for total of the drives and idle that day. Of that, 10,81 kWh were used for the 2:51 hour drive of 17,06 km.
75F is pretty warm for the cabin temp. In a traffic jam or road closure situation, you could drop that to 55f-65f or lower and use steering wheel and seat heaters and use significantly less power and still be comfortable.
It’s fact,,,, u can’t got to any gas station and fill-up or carry gallon of gas to drive off. It’s Tesla cult who r not admitting the reality,,,, if u user supercharger the cost of owning EV is about same as Hybrids.
This week I cold soaked my EQS to -10 F. Aside from limiting power to 80% the car drove normally from the get go. I took it to a charger 3 miles away thus with zero preconditioning after 10 minutes it was charging at 90 kw and kept that rate all the way to 85% 40 minutes later. Thereafter drove it 240 miles to 15%. No "heat pump" required....at all. The EQS may not be the efficiency champ but it eliminates range but its a charging monster with a honking battery that completely eliminates range anxiety. Set everything on ECO and bang at least 275 miles regardless of temperature.
Now just think if you were to turn the headlights off when you're in a traffic jam cuz you don't really have to have them on then, running lights / park lights work just fine until traffic gets going. Massive energy savings, and then just keep the heater on moderate temp. Great video Kyle, proof that EV's are just fine unless you don't have charge just like if you don't have gas.
Having just spent two days in the PA Laurel Highlands driving over 700 miles in single digit temps in my 2023 R1T I can report no issues. With wind chills well below 0 I did find increased charging times at RAN of about 1/3 normal and my overall range dropped by about 10%. The Rivian is a beast in the snow and cold.
@@Tigerex966 I typically have about a 280 mile range. It has dropped to 240-250 in the bitter cold. Some of the decrease could also be attributed to the Allegheny Mountains
I live in Edmonds, WA and generally only use my seat heaters in Winter and also turn on the Yoke heater and feel comfortable in sub freezing weather for the most part. It reduces energy consumption in my 2022 MSLR, and I generally am getting 4 miles/kW (250 W/mile) over past 2 years.
I mean, how long you have depends how much charge is left. If you were headed to a superchArger but got caught in a freeway jam w/10% battery, you may not make it to the charger
Great video. From what i've seen with this and other cold snaps it's not really the car that gives the most trouble but the charging infrastructure not being capable of handling the weather
The non-Tesla charging infrastructure tends to leave a LOT to be desired re reliability in all weather. Obviously, newer EV's with battery conditioning tend to fare better, re charging speed.
It's worth mentioning that a typical gas car uses about half a gallon of gas per hour while idling. The average gas tank size is about 15 gallons, so _IF_ the tank was full then they could idle with the heater on for about 30 hours. That assumes no other issues and a very large amount of exhaust gases hovering about.
Always keep you ice car at half tank minimum when in a winter storm and going on expressway. Same can be said for EV, except you can probably go to 25% since it's far more efficient at heat than an ice vehicle.
Having been stuck or engine seals blowing on long winter trips and had huge tow with ICE vehicles, & 90 % of people are driving less then 50 miles a day.
I wish manufacturers and dealers in the northern states would tell you that 300 miles range is best case summer scenario. Below freezing, range is probably 210 miles, but actually less because you need to conserve battery for preconditioning. Add snow resistance, your range is 150 miles, again less preconditioning.
Actually happened a few days ago in my country (DK), a lot of people got stuck on the highway during a really bad snowstorm/blizzard, most people eventually was able to drive away after about 24+ hours, when roads/big trucks were cleared, but out of the cars that could not drive out from there after, was actually 5 petrol-based cars, and about 41 EVs ran out of power, that had to be towed away. (This is not about being negative about EVs, I'm getting my own new EV in about a month from now, this is just a fresh example from here in Scandinavia).
It's quite common to be charging at home in my country, for many different reasons, so it's highly possible many left their work with a low state of charge to begin with, hoping they could get home in time despite the bad weather forecasts, not planning on being stuck for 24+ hours on the highway, because that rarely happens around here.
I'm also from Denmark. The 41 EVs story is bogus. A lie. . It was a social media post that someone Completely made up. There was a follow up with the towing company and rescuers and there's no record of 41 EVs getting stuck. There was only one anecdote about a Zoe owner that left home with less than 50% on the battery that eventually ran out of power during the night. Plenty of anecdotes of EV owners hanging out in their comfortably warm cars, watching Netflix, that drove away without issue.
"Mountain Man Tesla" has by far the best test for this. Because you aren't going to be doing stop and go in a situation like this that lasts more than a few miles. He sits like you would if stuck in a blizzard. And he spend enough time for the battery to lose its heat to the elements. The video is called "surviving the snow in an electric car". He camps in his Model Y.
Canadian pro tip. Have two 24hr wick candles in the backseat door pockets during winter. Wrap them in microfibre cloths to prevent rattling. EV or Petrol, the candles are low cost, and takes up realitively no space. Do i need to tell you to have lighters in your glove box?
Havent done a winter heating test, but ibe had my zoe running with hvac using it as a fridge for an event. 10h running ac consumed 15% battery (so 7.5kwh roughly). And the inside of the car was cold enough that windows were frosting on the outside.
Article about Chicago quoted one person who said 10 cars were towed and that he had already been waiting 5 hours for a charger to become available. So it's at least possible to understand a person waiting 8 hours running out of battery if their SOC is below 10% or so.
Great test. I've wondered about this scenario but never tested it. I'm not that surprised by the good result, figuring that you have no drag and just whatever rolling resistance there would be from the snow. Vastly better than an ICE car idling its gas away! P.S. I have an old P85D.
Gas cars don’t use any fuel when they are shutdown. This is what coats, emergency blankets, and emergency candles are for. An EV will deplete just to preserve the battery.
I strapped a propane "Buddy Heater" to the back seat when I built an electric car over 15 years ago. I had an electric heater in the car, but it used a lot of battery power.
I lived in Minnesota and drove around 100 miles in -35F daily. Never had an issue, but then again there was much fewer teslas back in 2019 on the road so most chargers were always available. Today, likely it is a much different story. 😂
I have a 2021 (bought in 2020) Model Y. I bought it after watching Kyle’s videos. She’s been rock solid. Granted, I have chargers at home but after over 71,000 miles she’s been good. The only issue I’ve had is with tires!!!
@@markf1548The thing about battery fires is, aside from being actually sixty times less frequent than fires in ICE vehicles, they also develop much more slowly. This greatly reduces danger to the occupants, as compared to ICE vehicle fires. For reference, according to IEEE Spectrum, there are 1,530 ICE vehicle fires per 100,000 vehicles sold, compared to 25 EV fires per 100,000 vehicles sold.
@@markf1548And note too, about 400 people in the US die in bed each year due to an ICE vehicle with keyless ignition spontaneously starting up and idling in an attached garage.
@@davidmenasco5743 Yes but look at the number of ICE vehicles on the road compared to EVs! Also the EVs pollute 100 times more lethal then ICE vehicles when on fire! Plus they can reignite weeks later!
I remember seeing that VW ran the heat on a ID4(in cold weather) for 41 hours before running out of battery. Of course, it was fully charged. But the chances of running out of charge is similar to running out of gas..
When I had an ICE car in the winter I would never let the gas gauge get below 1/2 a tank. In my EV in the winter I make sure its always charged to 80 to 85%, on a road trip would charge maybe look for a charger at 40%.
I have a worst case scenario that we experienced coming back to Wichita from Colorado Springs a couple years ago in our 2016 Model X! It was 60 degrees and sunny when we left Colorado but got down to freezing once we hit our final stretch headed south on 135 from Salina. Precipitation started freezing on our windshield and we had to leave the defrost on high the rest of the way home to keep it from freezing over completely. Cabin was actually uncomfortably hot, and we were running well over 500 wh/mi and drove the last few miles at 0% state of charge! Very stressful and part of the reason we ended up selling it and now have a much more efficient and longer range (and reliable) Model Y.
i have had my Q4 for 2 years now and driven in minus 30 c and the main issue is that everything freezes. Charging port, charging cable, car wont handshake with charger and not to forget your kw/h pr 100km x2. in summer my usage is around 16-17 kwh/100, but when reallly cold 35 kwh/100 km so you have to charge more often. Heatpump is a must in EV`s :) if stuck in traffic EV doesnt get cold due to heatpump and it uses around 5 kw pr hour
Thanks for doing this bit of real world research testing! I recently moved to the same area you're in and have been considering buying an EV, but wanted a better idea of how it performs in the winter. This video has gone a long way into assuaging my initial fears and I'm now feeling much more confident. Great work!
Was just stuck in basically sopped traffic for an hour due to heavy snow. Couldn't tell you how much range I lost because I didn't even run the cabin heat. Heated seat and steering wheel are more than enough with a winter jacket on. Toasty the whole way.
During COVID our poor doggie had emergency surgery. My wife and I had no choice but to wait in the car in 90° weather for about 4hrs with AC. I was shocked how little electricity it used
My kids literally put on jackets when it is 90F. It drives me crazy, but they seemed to have evolved to the Arizona temperatures. When it is over 110F the AC draws about 4-6 kW. At 120F the AC is really struggling if the battery is heat soaked.
Kyle, you did a job recreating the conditions a person living in a apartment would experience on a daily basis in the winter with the model 3. Charge up at a supercharger on your way home from work, then head home to your apartment. Then drive to work/
As usual, a very detailed test. Keep up the great work. I would like to see a cold weather distance comparison between a ID.4 with heat pump and an ID.4 without heat pump. It is currently very hard to get the car with a heat pump and I would like to see if it is worth the extra time waiting for one to become available not to mention the extra fee for it.
If you figure that a PTC heater will require 1-2 kwh of energy in an hour of driving, expect that a heat pump would be less than half of that for the same conditions. Meanwhile the car will require 20-30 kwh to move along in cool to cold weather, so energy used for heat - whichever form - is a small number by comparison. But do note that heat use is high for drives of 1 hour or less, and a PTC could command significantly more than a 2 kwh per hour draw if the car is driven for short trips on cold days. Heat pumps are super efficient at temps around, or just above freezing, so would have the most benefit on those days. When it's extremely cold out, it takes a while for a heat pump to warm up, but a PTC is almost instantaneous - ymmv.
Suspect it would be fairly close.. the colder it gets the less benefit you get from a heat pump.. not much energy to transfer in the first place. Pre 2021 I think Tesla's were also resistive only.
I live in Boulder and drove all weekend with excellent traction control in my MYP. Cut range in half. but most due to keeping me warm with awesome heated seats and climate control. Very slow to charge at home because the battery heater sucks up half the power on my 12amp/110V charger.
I love my Chevy Bolt, it has been -8C the past few days, it has been running like a champ. I wish it had a Heat Pump like the Model S. The Peak draw for heating is 8kWh, most days the heating uses 25% of total power usage. Even then it isn’t a big deal, I pre-heat my car every morning and it is so nice not having to go out and sit in the cold. Anti-EV folks are looking for anything to attack EVs. The facts just don’t line up with the crap they spew. This is the same as people freaking out about the loss of Incandescent Bulbs, Gas Stoves. EVs are objectively better than Gas Cars.
Hey Kyle, I live in Chicago where the last 3 days, the wind chill has been around -34F. I own a 2020 Tesla Model S which I enjoy, however my Tesla shut down on itself on I90 west going into the suburbs. This happened Sunday night. I charged up downtown at a supercharger after visiting friends but every stall was nearly cut in half by power output OR they weren't working. It took around 5 hours to get up to 75%. While going on I90 west, the Tesla didn't feel right.. It felt like it was losing all of its power. At the Barrington Road exit, the car just shut off on itself. No warning messages or anything. Just shut off and refused to turn back on. I had no choice but to get a tow to the Schaumburg Tesla dealer where to this day, Tuesday 16JAN, the car sits at a dealer and thus far has not turned back on and no answer has been given to me as of 16JAN on what happened internally to the car. Do you have a contact platform where I can get in touch to get your opinion or advice? This is my first Tesla and I assume that the freezing weather may have killed the battery. I wanted to provide more to this story if maybe I did something wrong or if weather was the main factor. Please reach out if you can, your opinion and time would be appreciated
Not sure how relevant it is to a Tesla, but my Chinese EV (uses a 126SP1 lithium iron phosphate blade battery and heat pump) has operating manual advice for cold and hot weather operation including a warning to not operate the vehicle at ambient temperatures above 40C or below -10C except in an emergency. These temperature extremes rarely occur where I live so these restrictions are not really a problem here. Manufacturers selling EVs in markets where temperature extremes do occur, need to ensure their vehicles can cope with extreme temperature conditions and that owners have all the information they need to safely operate in such conditions. My China EV has the full (searchable) operating manual stored in the infotainment system so you can call up the necessary sections whenever you need operating instructions or advice.
@@jimgraham6722 As a very first time Tesla owner, my main Schamburg dealer has tried their best explaining what the car does feature wise. Mechanical wise it's been very hit-n-miss. Some are willing to explain why this broke and how it may have happened, others, are very nonchalant and to contact Tesla HQ for an explanation or questions.
I just found your page. I am a Tesla3 owner in Fort Collins. Now I have you all to test different variables in my climate without having to do it myself.
In extreme weather events grid operators may divert energy from EV charging stations. Always leave with more charge than you need and have optional charging stations along your route.
Great video! At very cold ambient temps, seems like the heat pump would scavenge heat from the traction battery then send it to the heat pump to magnify the thermal gain (probably get a very good COP)? At some point given -10F ambient temps, there will be less or no heat to scavenge and the heat pump COP performance is going to be much lower and the energy usage will probably spike. It would be interesting to perform the same test as you did with the older -10F colded soaked Model 3 with a Tesla equipped with a heat pump.
@@sprockkets my two legs showed my “climate” to be in decimals of a percent, maybe it summed to 1. Something percent between the two legs but it wasn’t very much energy at all, I left with my pack around 90 degrees so it seems like it used that and pumped it into the cabin
@@voltspc9394 The energy used by the heat pump alone would be more than 1 percent though. Don't you have some sort of way to see cumulative consumption in a tesla? I mean, if you just heated a battery to 90F before leaving, that's just pushing the consumption to the charger. And that battery gets heated by the rear motor, which is really dumb.
@@sprockkets the motor creates heat when operating normally, even when it’s not in waste heat mode, so I guess it just gets counted as part of driving and not as part of climate, I also had my temp on the lower side for most of the drive bc I prefer it to be cold so that prob helped
I am in Kansas City & currently drive a volvo c40 twin and while it isn't efficent to begin with the cold has cut the range in half (700-800 wh/mi). That being said i drive really fast so strugle to get under 400 wh/mi in summer and I still had plenty of range for my 90 mi round trip commute. The other day I wanted to go somewhere extra past the house and tried to stop at evgo for 5-7 mins for piece of mind and found 3 of the 6 ccs out of service with a bolt, lightning, and mach-e charging plus a ev6 waiting. So I just came home & plugged in for a bit, then went for my errand. I would have made it but the volvo cuts power below 10% so I don't like running it down that low. Once the chargers catch up and become more reliable it will become a non issue.
200k?? You’ll be passing your idol Bjørn in subscriber numbers by 2025, if not before Kyle! Great work by you and your team! Greetings from a cold Oslo. BTW the Highland is such an upgrade on road trips from my old 2019 model 3. Summer efficiency compared to 2019 with PTC.
It is not really an upgrade. Summer range is only increased because Tesla uses low rolling-resistance. But the tyres lower the highspeed and braking capabilites. In winter on winter tyres the "advantage" is gone. Wait for the 2025 Mercedes CLA or the Smart sedan which will be based on the Zeekr 007 platform, which is also used in the next Polestars and Lotus.
@@sprockketsBjörn did neither use aero caps, nor factory tires in his test. And Aero is the only thing that is different on the Model 3+. Battery and motors are the same. If you take away the aero (and rolling resistance) advantage, you get the same range. Physics 101.
In both cases, gas or electric. You need to prepare better before Going Out in the cold weather with vehicles. But some don't seem to get that Message registered in their head.
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I should also mention - For most people and most use cases having an EV in the winter is really great. I can plug in at home, warm up the car from my app, and then once I use shore power to heat the cabin / battery I don’t really see much higher consumption than the summer (maybe 15-20% at the most). Even if I don’t preheat the consumption is high at the beginning of the drive and then levels out after 15 minutes or so.
This video just focuses on the road trip scenario where the road closes.
Thanks for watching!
Wish you would have looked at your energy graph you could have seen how much power the climate vs the driving etc used.
If ppl are going to drive in severe adverse conditions, they need to plan ahead.
For example Model Y (with heat pump) uses about 420 kWh/mile in the winter. You should add 15% charging loss on top of that. Otherwise solid performance.
Agreed, it's very convenient. I love my Tesla in winter too. However, consumption drop is more like 30% to 40% during peak winter here in Toronto and this is what a lot of other Tesla owners report in Canada. In -30 celsius I recently got just only 170 KM, i.e just over 100 miles (long range Model Y- 23)
Nice advert for Tesla's heat pump system. Or intuitively for a PHEV.
My wife and kids were stuck in a I-90 closure for hours on Snoqualmie Pass in December 2022. Our ID.4 kept them toasty and safe while consuming about 5% SoC per hour. The experience gave us all more confidence in the cold-weather performance of EVs.
EDIT: I should note that we've switched over to EVs entirely since that episode on I-90 a year ago. Do what you want, but we're never going back!
Hours? The problems seem to be days.
@Tron-Jockeyuse the seat heaters and set the cabin temp even lower for more battery savings
@Tron-Jockey I don't think the highway concern is a real problem. What seem to be the problem in Chicago is low charge and waiting at a recharge station. That drivers are running out of charge and blocking the chargers.
@@Dularr Days? Not really. I've been driving for nearly 30 years and I've never been stuck for days (not even when I lived in Alaska). Plan ahead and don't be dumb - words to live by.
Granted, I've driven ICE much longer than EV, but FWIW the only significant issues I've ever had with cold weather driving was my 4 Runner not starting at -25F (even with the block heater plugged in). Also got sh!tty mileage with winter-blend gas.
@@Dularrbuy why Norwegians has no problem with EVs? And they have 87 percent of the country's new car sales fully electric
I like a lot of people probably make sure the tank is full or the car is charged when driving in colder conditions. Doesn't really matter to me whether it's an EV or a ICE car. Preparation is preparation no matter what you're driving.
Yeah, but and EV loses 50 percent range in cold weather and ICE car loses a fraction of that.
It does matter. An out of fuel situation is far easier to fix in an ICE car. Or maybe you have a friend who can bring you a 5 gallon can of electricity for your EV?
so you didn't watch the video then? @@uhjyuff2095 50%? Is this from your vast experience driving Ev's?
so you didn't watch the video then? @@NomenClature-o8s
@@uhjyuff2095It's funny how 30% becomes 50% when fossil fuel propaganda hacks are writing.
Also too, if you are in an electric vehicle and find yourself stranded on a highway, try to get most of your warmth through the heated seat. They're much more efficient at transferring heat into you than air is.
Exactly! My heated seats in the Lightning are much more efficient than the air and honestly a temp of like 62° is super sufficient in the extreme cold vs 72° (sounds hot actually!)
@@brandonhayneswell I just did a trip from Florida to North dakota and lost most of my heat functionality in Georgia. Even with seat heat it was miserable. Never so glad to get home and get feeling back in my feet again. Coldest I saw was minus 9F. At home at least every winter we see overnight lows of minus 30 and daytime highs of minus 20. Seat heat ain't going to cut it. My safety and comfort is worth more to me than theoretically saving a few bucks.
@@howebrad4601 Wow! That does sound like a miserable trip! My comments are more about survival and basic comfort vs desired comfort. Your battery would last much longer if you had to use just heated seats and limited heated air in an emergency situation.
Hope you are well and be safe out there!
@@howebrad4601how did you lose your heat in Georgia? Maybe a small portable backup solar generator like a Pecron to use an electric blanket or small heater. If I was headed to North Dakota in the winter that would be the first item in my car for safety and convenience.
My problem with heated seats is they provide heat to exactly where I don't need it. My ass is the last thing that needs extra heat applied. Even if the heat transfers through me over time, I'd rather freeze than have a sweaty uncomfortably warm butt. Heated steering wheel, however, is the bomb. I could probably drive in the cold with no cabin heat as long as I have a heated steering wheel.
Same goes for any vehicle traveling in severe weather. Be prepared for the worst. Carry water, blankets, over charge, fill tank, etc.
Food too… muesli bars or something. First aid kit as well.
Candles. Candles provide cheap heat.
More prevalent with EV's though. I will stick to gasoline until battery technology gets better.
That’s the real take home message
@@howled0: Economics will make the decision over time for the vast majority of regular middle class consumers.
Wife was caught in the big storm (yesterday) in the Colorado mountains waiting (2hours) to get through Eisenhower tunnel. She was smart and filled up before the trip. No issues with enough battery. Only issue was the superchargers were not 100% on line, and there were many that needed to charge.
-6-10° for the duration of the 7hour trip.
Thanks Kyle for your logical approach to the reality of owning an electric car.
Nice to hear no issues. I always top up in Edwards a bit high just incase the tunnel closes!
Thank you for this powerful info!
Next time you take along journey in winter, take a personal propane heater just in case. See my other post for details.
@@i6power30 Combustion inside an enclosed space ain't a great idea. Just bring extra warm clothes and set the cabin to like 50F.
@@concinnus Not as bad as it sounds, buddy heaters are rated for indoor use actually. propane burns cleanly, I've tested it with fully enclosed car interior with a CO detector. After 1 hour, zero CO level.
We appreciate your dedication to teaching about EV’s. You go beyond what most of the other you tubers fail!
"Mountain Man Tesla" has by far the best test for this. Because you aren't going to be doing stop and go in a situation like this that lasts more than a few miles.
He sits like you would if stuck in a blizzard. And he spend enough time for the battery to lose its heat to the elements. The video is called "surviving the snow in an electric car".
He camps in his Model Y.
Very nice Kyle. My position is this, the same people who run out of charge in extreme conditions, are the same people who run out of gas under those same conditions.
So true, my brother has ran out his ICE car multiple times he gets a EV and runs it out a mile or so from his house😅
One of the reasons I bought a Camry Hybrid instead is that with a full tank it can run AC or heat FOREVER. I live in California and the day may come where a truly dangerous heat wave comes through and my plan is to hop in the car and drive to the ocean. That may take 10 or 20 hours instead of the normal 40 minutes while everyone else tries to do it at the same time. If it's 110+ I'll still have AC creeping through traffic while people are running out of gas and charge.
The difference is with an EV your friend can’t bring you a 5 gallon can of electricity.
@@NomenClature-o8s my EV has V2L, I can bring a charge
You can ask some one to bring you a can of fuel, try to same with the battery
I remember Bjorn Nyland doing winter tests years ago. He would sleep in the car in "camp mode." One time he did a kind of like sauna test, turning up the heat so they were sweating in the car for hours.
I have a model Y I park in the garage. It is my emergency shelter if the power go out. We just had a freeze with ice in Houston, TX. Before the weather arrived I charged to 80%(typically I charge to 70% nightly). I have a camping memory foam mattress that fits perfectly with the seats down. The wife, dogs and myself have a place to stay warm and can watch movies. 😁😁
It just occured to me that running a car in the garage is not always dark reason stuff:)
It’s the season. ‘Warm time’ is like the winter a seasonal and intense version of range anxiety. This question takes over public news EVERY winter when temps go below 20F. So many of the EV ‘worries’ are just fear of the unknown. Thanks for bringing EXPERIENCE to the front line, Kyle!!
It's normal to be wary of the unknown but sadly it is transformed into fear by the bigoil propaganda cells, that are fearmongering and spreading disinformation through massmedia, which is happy to oblige. Why happy to oblige?! You see ads on tv and radio from oil related companies right?! Do you see from EV companies?! Nope. So mass media is saying what the oil company wants, and not the objective truth. Long gone are the days of fair and objective journalism. This is valid for everything you see and hear, as it's the side of the one paying money to the one speaking to you.
'Dirty Tesla' did a test last year with a fully charged Model 3 parked in his driveway. It lasted 48 hours sitting still.
Like Kyle's test was so scientific? LOL... Plus since vehicles do get stuck, it's still valid information.
And on the pantheon of misleading information that Tesla gives out this is relatively a minor issue.
Which is on par with ICE vehicles.
@@AaronSwenson exactly.
@@AaronSwenson not even close, most cars can idle for about 12-16 hours
@@Skeppyberry I mean mine can do a bit under 48 hours but I have a 20 gallon tank and my car only uses a tickle over half a gallon per hour while idling but yeah most cars don't have tanks that large
Bjorn Nyland does this test every day in Norway it seems haha ;) his 1000km trips in the frigid north are almost weekly! And he does them in a super wide variety of EV. You need to find yourself a Marcusbil
Kyle taking the hit for us all. Sitting in a car for an hour. And Alyssa too for the outside footage!
Neighbors: "There go those two again. Another crazy, random EV test. They were made for each other."
I camped in my niro in freezing temps, lowest 14F. The hybrid battery keeps the heater running all night, and the combustion engine seemed to turn on every 30 minutes for about 5 minutes at a time. I burned about 0.5 gallons of gas for the 8 hours of staying warm and sleeping. I did take the passenger seat out, to have a comfortable full length mattress through the entire compartment, so it was like the perfect winter camping pod.
I have a similar setup in a 2000 Bonneville SSEi. Doing a re-layout now. Ran a fridge for year as a test. That was awesome in the summer.
If you were that worried you'd have a blanket in the car. With a blanket and heated seats and everything else off you'd likely die due to lack of water before freezing to death.
Facts and with that i would def get thristy enough to f around and thaw some snow to have water even tho i couldnt boil it - i still would try if it came down that no water and its snowing outsidd
Good luck surviving at minus 10 with a blanket.
@@CapitanHarlockisback So, we just ignore the heated seats part? We do you lie maliciously like that?
@@Snerdles You can survive more than one week without water, do you think your heated seats will last for so long?
If you have a way to plug in an immersion heater and you bring a thermos, you have a way to melt and boil water for drinking and food. I brought that with me recently on a mountain trip in my MSP. In that case, you’d probably die of boredom first.
I spent 2 hours travelling 15 miles in snow this morning in my 6 year old bmw i3. I didn’t realise I was supposed to be worried 😂. I used less energy than normal as I was crawling along. Toasty and warm all the way
?
@@uhjyuff2095What he's saying is that it's really no problem driving an EV in the winter.
@@davidmenasco5743 good luck out there and stay safe.
Energy is mostly consumed overcoming air resistance. When you go super slow, the battery lasts next to forever. Your test results make sense.
Heating takes more energy than moving in severe weather
@@i6power30
No. It’s not even close.
Over fill is great advice. We are getting more extreme conditions across the planet, especially in winter. Carry water and a blanket. If you know there going to be snow carry a shovel. I have some hand warmers that can be recharged so, if needed I can just use the heated seats to keep my body warm and the hand warmers for either my hands, my feet or to rest my head against. In deep snow an Ev has the advantage of not pumping out fumes. If you are in an ICE vehicle you need to have a way to keep the exhaust clear.
Charged my 2024 Cadillac Lyriq to full last night.
I have a LECTRON V-box step 2 charger at 40A.
Woke up this morning, got in, set the traction to SNOW...
Drove to work.
Drove home.
Car performed flawlessly.
We had snow and ice last night.
29'F.
KYLE!! I can't believe you are at 200K, i been with you since the start, i cant wait to your journey to 500K and than 1 million!! keep up the good work my dude :)
Thanks for watching! Really appreciate the support
In winter time ALWAYS be prepared when you go out regardless of what you drive.
Amazon sells great heated seat covers that plugs into your cigarette lighter or usb. You should be prepared. Carry extra sock, jackets, gloves, wool blanket. And some water and a snack. (Snacks and water mostly to help you stay calm and relax)
Funny how ICE car owners will never let their tank go under half full when the weather gets iffy, but the idea that you should keep some reserve juice in the battery seems completely crazy to them.
bc frost will form inside the tank and that water will go to the bottom of tank and into your fuel system. that's why we use a bottle of iso-heat with every fill up to keep the water at a minimum. plus if you do slide into a ditch you have fuel to keep the engine running to keep you warm when help arrives in some cases if you live in a rural area it can take a couple of hours without bad weather. there was a bed multi vehicle accident less the 5 years ago at least 70 cars were totalled it took 6 hours to help everyone that was involved bc of the weather
@@brutushobbiesyou have COMPLETELY missed the point of op...
Let's be real. It's much easier to top up an ICE car than an EV as there are many more gas stations you almost never have to plan your trip.
@@brutushobbiesYour fuel is already 10% alcohol, that little bottle of iso heat ain't doing a darn thing. Water is miscable in gasoline. Water vapor can't form in the tank as water has to get into the tank. Not only does cold air hold very little water your evap system prevents free exchange of atmosphere into the fuel tank.
Ummmm, who wants to stand outside and fill up a XX gal tank in the winter? Said nobody who charges their EV in the garage. 😂😂
"My neighbours are going to think I'm crazy"
Sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure they already know that you are 🤣
Keep up the good work😀
It's okay since he doesn't have 'neighbours' 😀
This was 2 hours well spent Kyle! It’s very appropriate with these crazy temps and unknown conditions on the road. Great job and very informative!
You're sponsored by EV charging companies... that makes an unbiased video very challenging. Don't offer consolation or excuses.
One thing I've noticed having been accidentally IN this situation, is that the heat output dropped and the car got colder as I got below 5-10% SoC. (Model 3)
Sadly they won’t be airing this on Fox. Thanks for speaking truth Kyle.
Welcome to the stupid cultural wars - so senseless and unfortunately you are correct
Non-sensational news that goes against a conservative narrative is buried in the news cycle.
My parents just were stuck for 10 hours on i5 in Oregon in their 2019 PTC heat model s. It appeared to use about 2%/hr on standard auto settings with 20f+snow temperatures outside. When they set the climate to recirculate and no AC, the usage dropped to 2 epa miles per hour meaning ~150 hours for 100-0%!!
Also if you arent moving and need to extend you can just seat heat and steering wheel heat and really last a long time probably a week.
Hold on here in Sweden we had a blistered a couple of weeks ago and it was a big kerfuffle because the hiway E22 was totally gridlocked for a couple of days. And the the cars that survived best was EVs because they had camping mode (like :-) )… check it out. Kyle, keep up the good work.
Thanks for sharing that info.
It's a shame that some people have to wear their photographic negative glasses, where black is white and vice versa. It's like they wear them on principle, because reality doesn't live up to their expectations.
Looking at the weather record on time and date website says you had light snow and the weather was above 20 degrees Fahrenheit. What city was this blizzard in? Also, 20 f compared to the -8 with 15 mile an hour winds would make a big difference in battery performance. Camping mode wouldn’t do much in this situation as thousands found it with this arctic blast.
@@donrainesohwho are these thousands you refer to? I used Camp mode in my Y February 2023 in a cross country trip. Didn’t have any problem and didn’t charge any differently than I normally do on road trips. I suspect that you are ignorant about EV usage from your comments and your emphasis on
@@bigdougscommentary5719 have you looked at Reddit? A bunch of prissy fools like you on there whining about their Tesla. They weren’t preconditioning and therefore charge times took longer and their range was lower than it would be even in these colder temps. Unwad your panties and realize it isn’t about you. The internet holds all the information you need. It shows that your February 2023 trip was during the warmest February recorded in 20 years. I own a 2020 model 3 and live in Ohio. I lose minimal range, but my car is garaged and never truly freezes like Chicago etc did this week. Sorry your ego is so easily bruised.
@@donrainesoh looks like it would have been about -10C in the southern part. Northern part hit a record low of -46.5 F in Kvikkjokk on Jan. 3.
Seems like a pretty accurate example of how to expect a ev to perform on both ends of the spectrum and I didn't realize my plaid had that de-ice feature for the front windshield I guess you learn something new everyday 👍🏾
Kyle the recent videos are killing it. Great content, super interesting and useful. Personally, when I'm in freezing weather I have a jacket on in the car and I'm fine with the cabin set to 64F. In fact, I find 72F unbearly hot with a jacket on. So you've truly done worst case here by using 72F, the better choice so nobody could possibly find fault. But I'd venture to say the consumption would be meaningfully lower at 64F setpoint.
Kyle. I noticed 1 major mishap. Many cars that "died" were cold battery going to charge first thing in the morning (like your model 3 in this test) BUTT they also had navigate to supercharger on the nav.
So take that energy usage you say (2kw /mi) and add another 1.5-2kw/ mile for preconditioning. 4kw per mile would nuke a base car in only 10-20 miles (assuming the system never could overcome the cold soak) that's what I saw on many that had issues.
If I left my house in Evergreen/Conifer and drove to Dillon to ski, and then returned home the same day, I'd get back with 45% battery if I had left home with 98%. Nice buffer I would say. ..... But you do make great points about driving in the winter, especially I-70. Horrible traffic jams are common and shutdowns happen too. Leave home with at least 98% battery for a reserve. Great video. Best one I've seen on the topic.
If they have a slow charger at the ski area, you could drive home with a mostly full or full battery. Which is not necessary, but I only thought of it in the context of getting stuck on the highway in a snowstorm.
With my 2019 bolt EV I have 20 bars of power on my dash. I use 1 bar per hour with the car running in -35c weather and heat on and music playing. So the bolt can sit quite a while.
Yep, I was in my shorts and t-shirt watching this in my MN home
I have a 2015 Smart ForTwo electric, which has garbage range and uses a normal heater, no fancy heat pump. And I still am not scared of "being stuck in traffic" beyond maybe stuck for several hours in heavy traffic. Not that I'm ever in traffic with that vehicle but it doesn't really scare me much.
This was already proven by the lady who was stuck in a blizzard on the highway in a Tesla a couple of years back. People in gas cars had to find shelter.
Yup two years ago stuck on I-95 for over 24 hours. Others ran out of gas while she just put it in camp mode and was good to go.
You need to cover the impact on public charging stations during cold weather. With less range, you expect more demand on charging. Do charging stations get full requiring wait? How long will one wait?
A bonus of EVs is being able to heat it up while still in the garage. However, the thought of dealing with any charging issues when it’s around 0 F is not on my favored list. I’m hoping better battery tech gets us to 400+ mile range to better able to charge to 100% in winter and minimize the need to stop on longer day trips.
Battery tech will improve in the next decade that make current EVs as obsolete as gas cars.
It’s your honesty that keeps us coming back. Loved the quip about otter pilot
Last week, we got stuck in traffic because of a snowstorm and a bridge closure. It took us 15 mins to go to the appointment and 3 hours to get back home. Car is a 2022 Tesla Model 3 SR and it was charged at 100% when we left. It took 8% for the first part of the trip, 5% while I waited for an hour listening to Netflix with heat and 22% for the three hours stuck in traffic at -7 celcius for a 634 Wh/km. We had to blast the heater a few times to clear the windows. All in all, it wasn't so bad and I was never worried.
For your anecdote to have meaningful significance, it would be good to know full mileage traveled. Based on that 35% charge depletion and your .634 kWh/km metric, that works out to 31.7 km traveled, or 20 miles. The EPA lists the efficiency of that car at .142 kWh/km, which means your efficiency was 22% of it's normal efficiency, or nearly 5 times worse than the EPA metric for that trip. Since your round trip was 20 miles, then 10 miles on the first part consumed 8%, and you would have been able to travel 112 miles consuming 90% battery SoC in those conditions, which equates to a .57 kWh/mi (or .357 kWh/km) efficiency, or the range roughly cut in half and efficiency a little over 2x worse than normal.
@@RT-mv7df you are right and you were close 33,40 km. It was 36% in real total. A couple of percent were lost. I do have Teslafi so it’s pretty well documented. I used 14.8 kWh for total of the drives and idle that day. Of that, 10,81 kWh were used for the 2:51 hour drive of 17,06 km.
75F is pretty warm for the cabin temp. In a traffic jam or road closure situation, you could drop that to 55f-65f or lower and use steering wheel and seat heaters and use significantly less power and still be comfortable.
Yes we want to know all my friends that are EV haters are always arguing with me about being struck in the cold in a EV!
There are a lot of people on the interwebs that argue about how BAD EVs are without knowing anything about EVs.
It’s fact,,,, u can’t got to any gas station and fill-up or carry gallon of gas to drive off. It’s Tesla cult who r not admitting the reality,,,, if u user supercharger the cost of owning EV is about same as Hybrids.
This week I cold soaked my EQS to -10 F. Aside from limiting power to 80% the car drove normally from the get go. I took it to a charger 3 miles away thus with zero preconditioning after 10 minutes it was charging at 90 kw and kept that rate all the way to 85% 40 minutes later. Thereafter drove it 240 miles to 15%. No "heat pump" required....at all. The EQS may not be the efficiency champ but it eliminates range but its a charging monster with a honking battery that completely eliminates range anxiety. Set everything on ECO and bang at least 275 miles regardless of temperature.
Now just think if you were to turn the headlights off when you're in a traffic jam cuz you don't really have to have them on then, running lights / park lights work just fine until traffic gets going. Massive energy savings, and then just keep the heater on moderate temp. Great video Kyle, proof that EV's are just fine unless you don't have charge just like if you don't have gas.
Having just spent two days in the PA Laurel Highlands driving over 700 miles in single digit temps in my 2023 R1T I can report no issues. With wind chills well below 0 I did find increased charging times at RAN of about 1/3 normal and my overall range dropped by about 10%. The Rivian is a beast in the snow and cold.
10 percent most are reporting 50 percent reduction in range. 😮
Even gas cars lose about 15 percent
@@Tigerex966 I typically have about a 280 mile range. It has dropped to 240-250 in the bitter cold. Some of the decrease could also be attributed to the Allegheny Mountains
I live in Edmonds, WA and generally only use my seat heaters in Winter and also turn on the Yoke heater and feel comfortable in sub freezing weather for the most part. It reduces energy consumption in my 2022 MSLR, and I generally am getting 4 miles/kW (250 W/mile) over past 2 years.
I mean, how long you have depends how much charge is left. If you were headed to a superchArger but got caught in a freeway jam w/10% battery, you may not make it to the charger
Great video. From what i've seen with this and other cold snaps it's not really the car that gives the most trouble but the charging infrastructure not being capable of handling the weather
The non-Tesla charging infrastructure tends to leave a LOT to be desired re reliability in all weather.
Obviously, newer EV's with battery conditioning tend to fare better, re charging speed.
It's worth mentioning that a typical gas car uses about half a gallon of gas per hour while idling. The average gas tank size is about 15 gallons, so _IF_ the tank was full then they could idle with the heater on for about 30 hours. That assumes no other issues and a very large amount of exhaust gases hovering about.
Always keep you ice car at half tank minimum when in a winter storm and going on expressway. Same can be said for EV, except you can probably go to 25% since it's far more efficient at heat than an ice vehicle.
Having been stuck or engine seals blowing on long winter trips and had huge tow with ICE vehicles, & 90 % of people are driving less then 50 miles a day.
This happened in I-95 in Virginia during an ice storm in 2022. There were dozens of cars that ran out of gas, most of the EV drivers had no issues.
You don’t idle a gas car for more than a few minutes at a time to prevent dying from CO. If you do that the gas won’t run out for weeks.
@@user-tb7rn1il3q But you'll need to run the engine to keep the cabin warm.
@@SpottedSharks For a few minutes an hour, yes.
I wish manufacturers and dealers in the northern states would tell you that 300 miles range is best case summer scenario. Below freezing, range is probably 210 miles, but actually less because you need to conserve battery for preconditioning. Add snow resistance, your range is 150 miles, again less preconditioning.
Ummm,….pretty much all of them have the small print legalize “driving conditions will effect range”.
Actually happened a few days ago in my country (DK), a lot of people got stuck on the highway during a really bad snowstorm/blizzard, most people eventually was able to drive away after about 24+ hours, when roads/big trucks were cleared, but out of the cars that could not drive out from there after, was actually 5 petrol-based cars, and about 41 EVs ran out of power, that had to be towed away. (This is not about being negative about EVs, I'm getting my own new EV in about a month from now, this is just a fresh example from here in Scandinavia).
It's quite common to be charging at home in my country, for many different reasons, so it's highly possible many left their work with a low state of charge to begin with, hoping they could get home in time despite the bad weather forecasts, not planning on being stuck for 24+ hours on the highway, because that rarely happens around here.
Sounds to me there were 41 irresponsible drivers that just happened to be in EVs. You have to be a real idiot to run out of charge in an EV.
I'm also from Denmark. The 41 EVs story is bogus. A lie. . It was a social media post that someone Completely made up. There was a follow up with the towing company and rescuers and there's no record of 41 EVs getting stuck. There was only one anecdote about a Zoe owner that left home with less than 50% on the battery that eventually ran out of power during the night. Plenty of anecdotes of EV owners hanging out in their comfortably warm cars, watching Netflix, that drove away without issue.
"Mountain Man Tesla" has by far the best test for this. Because you aren't going to be doing stop and go in a situation like this that lasts more than a few miles.
He sits like you would if stuck in a blizzard. And he spend enough time for the battery to lose its heat to the elements. The video is called "surviving the snow in an electric car".
He camps in his Model Y.
Good thing you have your sweatshirt on Kyle. I was worried you'd get cold!
Canadian pro tip. Have two 24hr wick candles in the backseat door pockets during winter. Wrap them in microfibre cloths to prevent rattling. EV or Petrol, the candles are low cost, and takes up realitively no space. Do i need to tell you to have lighters in your glove box?
Havent done a winter heating test, but ibe had my zoe running with hvac using it as a fridge for an event. 10h running ac consumed 15% battery (so 7.5kwh roughly). And the inside of the car was cold enough that windows were frosting on the outside.
Article about Chicago quoted one person who said 10 cars were towed and that he had already been waiting 5 hours for a charger to become available. So it's at least possible to understand a person waiting 8 hours running out of battery if their SOC is below 10% or so.
As a Minnesotan, -10F is cold AF. Above 40F is where I'd start wearing shorts+Jacket.
NY Times was moaning the woes of electric cars in cold weather this morning. Your video added a reality check. Thanks for doing it.
Great test. I've wondered about this scenario but never tested it. I'm not that surprised by the good result, figuring that you have no drag and just whatever rolling resistance there would be from the snow. Vastly better than an ICE car idling its gas away! P.S. I have an old P85D.
ICE car uses about 200-400ml of fuel per hour on idle. Yeah vastly worse than your electric masturbating chariots.
Gas cars don’t use any fuel when they are shutdown. This is what coats, emergency blankets, and emergency candles are for. An EV will deplete just to preserve the battery.
I strapped a propane "Buddy Heater" to the back seat when I built an electric car over 15 years ago. I had an electric heater in the car, but it used a lot of battery power.
I lived in Minnesota and drove around 100 miles in -35F daily. Never had an issue, but then again there was much fewer teslas back in 2019 on the road so most chargers were always available. Today, likely it is a much different story. 😂
I have a 2021 (bought in 2020) Model Y. I bought it after watching Kyle’s videos. She’s been rock solid. Granted, I have chargers at home but after over 71,000 miles she’s been good. The only issue I’ve had is with tires!!!
Nice thing about an EV you can't die from sitting and idling :D
Sure you can when the battery burst into flames and can’t be put out!
@@markf1548The thing about battery fires is, aside from being actually sixty times less frequent than fires in ICE vehicles, they also develop much more slowly.
This greatly reduces danger to the occupants, as compared to ICE vehicle fires.
For reference, according to IEEE Spectrum, there are 1,530 ICE vehicle fires per 100,000 vehicles sold, compared to 25 EV fires per 100,000 vehicles sold.
@@markf1548And note too, about 400 people in the US die in bed each year due to an ICE vehicle with keyless ignition spontaneously starting up and idling in an attached garage.
@@davidmenasco5743 Yes but look at the number of ICE vehicles on the road compared to EVs! Also the EVs pollute 100 times more lethal then ICE vehicles when on fire! Plus they can reignite weeks later!
@@davidmenasco5743That if true is a design issue from the manufacturer!
Thank You Everybody for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.. Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste.. 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
I remember seeing that VW ran the heat on a ID4(in cold weather) for 41 hours before running out of battery. Of course, it was fully charged. But the chances of running out of charge is similar to running out of gas..
When I had an ICE car in the winter I would never let the gas gauge get below 1/2 a tank.
In my EV in the winter I make sure its always charged to 80 to 85%, on a road trip would charge maybe look for a charger at 40%.
Another great test, thanks Kyle & Alyssa!
Skipped to the test at 9:40… good info, and very helpful. Thank you Kyle.
I have a worst case scenario that we experienced coming back to Wichita from Colorado Springs a couple years ago in our 2016 Model X! It was 60 degrees and sunny when we left Colorado but got down to freezing once we hit our final stretch headed south on 135 from Salina. Precipitation started freezing on our windshield and we had to leave the defrost on high the rest of the way home to keep it from freezing over completely. Cabin was actually uncomfortably hot, and we were running well over 500 wh/mi and drove the last few miles at 0% state of charge! Very stressful and part of the reason we ended up selling it and now have a much more efficient and longer range (and reliable) Model Y.
i have had my Q4 for 2 years now and driven in minus 30 c and the main issue is that everything freezes. Charging port, charging cable, car wont handshake with charger and not to forget your kw/h pr 100km x2. in summer my usage is around 16-17 kwh/100, but when reallly cold 35 kwh/100 km so you have to charge more often. Heatpump is a must in EV`s :)
if stuck in traffic EV doesnt get cold due to heatpump and it uses around 5 kw pr hour
Very very hardworking Kyle, your hard work all time pays off😊
Thanks for doing this bit of real world research testing! I recently moved to the same area you're in and have been considering buying an EV, but wanted a better idea of how it performs in the winter. This video has gone a long way into assuaging my initial fears and I'm now feeling much more confident.
Great work!
Thanks for confirming that EVs, even in worst case, are super efficient
Nope gas is better
@@Timberwoodx🤡💩😂🙈
Was just stuck in basically sopped traffic for an hour due to heavy snow. Couldn't tell you how much range I lost because I didn't even run the cabin heat. Heated seat and steering wheel are more than enough with a winter jacket on. Toasty the whole way.
During COVID our poor doggie had emergency surgery. My wife and I had no choice but to wait in the car in 90° weather for about 4hrs with AC. I was shocked how little electricity it used
My kids literally put on jackets when it is 90F. It drives me crazy, but they seemed to have evolved to the Arizona temperatures. When it is over 110F the AC draws about 4-6 kW. At 120F the AC is really struggling if the battery is heat soaked.
-10 degrees and still rocking the out of spec hoodie outfit. RESPECT
"That darn Tesla ain't fast enough" sounded like she was chilling on the rocking chair on the porch hugging a shotgun tight :))))))))))))))))))))))
Mine has been flawless...still the best thing i have done for my house hold and pocket...2k saved and no oil changes...lets gooo!!!
Tom @StateofCharge did a similar cold idle test for his F150 Lightning compared to a Rivian R1T, showing they could last a long time!
For those who are curious. Keep up the great content Kyle! ruclips.net/video/VYnqRH-SAG4/видео.htmlsi=3yQ2xwjHCBjSMMOR
Kyle, you did a job recreating the conditions a person living in a apartment would experience on a daily basis in the winter with the model 3. Charge up at a supercharger on your way home from work, then head home to your apartment. Then drive to work/
As usual, a very detailed test. Keep up the great work. I would like to see a cold weather distance comparison between a ID.4 with heat pump and an ID.4 without heat pump. It is currently very hard to get the car with a heat pump and I would like to see if it is worth the extra time waiting for one to become available not to mention the extra fee for it.
Good Choice
If you figure that a PTC heater will require 1-2 kwh of energy in an hour of driving, expect that a heat pump would be less than half of that for the same conditions. Meanwhile the car will require 20-30 kwh to move along in cool to cold weather, so energy used for heat - whichever form - is a small number by comparison. But do note that heat use is high for drives of 1 hour or less, and a PTC could command significantly more than a 2 kwh per hour draw if the car is driven for short trips on cold days. Heat pumps are super efficient at temps around, or just above freezing, so would have the most benefit on those days. When it's extremely cold out, it takes a while for a heat pump to warm up, but a PTC is almost instantaneous - ymmv.
Suspect it would be fairly close.. the colder it gets the less benefit you get from a heat pump.. not much energy to transfer in the first place. Pre 2021 I think Tesla's were also resistive only.
@@mark123655 - correct on resistive prior to 2021.
I live in Boulder and drove all weekend with excellent traction control in my MYP. Cut range in half. but most due to keeping me warm with awesome heated seats and climate control. Very slow to charge at home because the battery heater sucks up half the power on my 12amp/110V charger.
Kyle, you are a champ. 🏆
I love my Chevy Bolt, it has been -8C the past few days, it has been running like a champ. I wish it had a Heat Pump like the Model S. The Peak draw for heating is 8kWh, most days the heating uses 25% of total power usage. Even then it isn’t a big deal, I pre-heat my car every morning and it is so nice not having to go out and sit in the cold.
Anti-EV folks are looking for anything to attack EVs. The facts just don’t line up with the crap they spew. This is the same as people freaking out about the loss of Incandescent Bulbs, Gas Stoves. EVs are objectively better than Gas Cars.
Hey Kyle,
I live in Chicago where the last 3 days, the wind chill has been around -34F. I own a 2020 Tesla Model S which I enjoy, however my Tesla shut down on itself on I90 west going into the suburbs. This happened Sunday night. I charged up downtown at a supercharger after visiting friends but every stall was nearly cut in half by power output OR they weren't working. It took around 5 hours to get up to 75%. While going on I90 west, the Tesla didn't feel right.. It felt like it was losing all of its power.
At the Barrington Road exit, the car just shut off on itself. No warning messages or anything. Just shut off and refused to turn back on.
I had no choice but to get a tow to the Schaumburg Tesla dealer where to this day, Tuesday 16JAN, the car sits at a dealer and thus far has not turned back on and no answer has been given to me as of 16JAN on what happened internally to the car.
Do you have a contact platform where I can get in touch to get your opinion or advice? This is my first Tesla and I assume that the freezing weather may have killed the battery. I wanted to provide more to this story if maybe I did something wrong or if weather was the main factor.
Please reach out if you can, your opinion and time would be appreciated
Could it be the 12v lead-acid battery? If that's the case, ask them to fit it with 12v lithium battery, it may be more expensive but well worth it.
Not sure how relevant it is to a Tesla, but my Chinese EV (uses a 126SP1 lithium iron phosphate blade battery and heat pump) has operating manual advice for cold and hot weather operation including a warning to not operate the vehicle at ambient temperatures above 40C or below -10C except in an emergency. These temperature extremes rarely occur where I live so these restrictions are not really a problem here.
Manufacturers selling EVs in markets where temperature extremes do occur, need to ensure their vehicles can cope with extreme temperature conditions and that owners have all the information they need to safely operate in such conditions.
My China EV has the full (searchable) operating manual stored in the infotainment system so you can call up the necessary sections whenever you need operating instructions or advice.
Tesla's refusing to help anyone. It's the cold. As many MANY people warned.
@@inciwillard991 I'm not sure honestly. Maybe? My car is still under "exam" at the dealer and they didn't have much more information at this time
@@jimgraham6722 As a very first time Tesla owner, my main Schamburg dealer has tried their best explaining what the car does feature wise. Mechanical wise it's been very hit-n-miss. Some are willing to explain why this broke and how it may have happened, others, are very nonchalant and to contact Tesla HQ for an explanation or questions.
I just found your page. I am a Tesla3 owner in Fort Collins. Now I have you all to test different variables in my climate without having to do it myself.
Good idea. I see a lot of fear mongering about this right now.
This was very beneficial for those of us who a new EV owners and hearing from concerned family members 🙂Thanks and God bless,
😂🚴👍👍 This mist be the best boring test ever 😂😂 Thanks for sharing!
In extreme weather events grid operators may divert energy from EV charging stations. Always leave with more charge than you need and have optional charging stations along your route.
I’d like to see these stats for this current season. Very interesting.
Great video! At very cold ambient temps, seems like the heat pump would scavenge heat from the traction battery then send it to the heat pump to magnify the thermal gain (probably get a very good COP)? At some point given -10F ambient temps, there will be less or no heat to scavenge and the heat pump COP performance is going to be much lower and the energy usage will probably spike. It would be interesting to perform the same test as you did with the older -10F colded soaked Model 3 with a Tesla equipped with a heat pump.
Agreed, I just did a 300 mile trip and used less than 1% on heating the cabin, it was all done by pulling the heat from my pack
@@voltspc9394 That would mean you used less than 700 watt hours over the course of around 4 hours. I call bullsht on that.
@@sprockkets my two legs showed my “climate” to be in decimals of a percent, maybe it summed to 1. Something percent between the two legs but it wasn’t very much energy at all, I left with my pack around 90 degrees so it seems like it used that and pumped it into the cabin
@@voltspc9394 The energy used by the heat pump alone would be more than 1 percent though. Don't you have some sort of way to see cumulative consumption in a tesla?
I mean, if you just heated a battery to 90F before leaving, that's just pushing the consumption to the charger. And that battery gets heated by the rear motor, which is really dumb.
@@sprockkets the motor creates heat when operating normally, even when it’s not in waste heat mode, so I guess it just gets counted as part of driving and not as part of climate, I also had my temp on the lower side for most of the drive bc I prefer it to be cold so that prob helped
I am in Kansas City & currently drive a volvo c40 twin and while it isn't efficent to begin with the cold has cut the range in half (700-800 wh/mi). That being said i drive really fast so strugle to get under 400 wh/mi in summer and I still had plenty of range for my 90 mi round trip commute.
The other day I wanted to go somewhere extra past the house and tried to stop at evgo for 5-7 mins for piece of mind and found 3 of the 6 ccs out of service with a bolt, lightning, and mach-e charging plus a ev6 waiting. So I just came home & plugged in for a bit, then went for my errand. I would have made it but the volvo cuts power below 10% so I don't like running it down that low.
Once the chargers catch up and become more reliable it will become a non issue.
200k?? You’ll be passing your idol Bjørn in subscriber numbers by 2025, if not before Kyle! Great work by you and your team! Greetings from a cold Oslo. BTW the Highland is such an upgrade on road trips from my old 2019 model 3. Summer efficiency compared to 2019 with PTC.
It is not really an upgrade. Summer range is only increased because Tesla uses low rolling-resistance. But the tyres lower the highspeed and braking capabilites. In winter on winter tyres the "advantage" is gone.
Wait for the 2025 Mercedes CLA or the Smart sedan which will be based on the Zeekr 007 platform, which is also used in the next Polestars and Lotus.
Um, bro, Bjorn and Motor Trend shows the highland getting less range, not more than the previous gen. Sorry.
@@sprockketsBjörn did neither use aero caps, nor factory tires in his test.
And Aero is the only thing that is different on the Model 3+.
Battery and motors are the same. If you take away the aero (and rolling resistance) advantage, you get the same range. Physics 101.
@@theipc-twizzt2789 And yet, Tesla claimed 20% more range. Tires or not, Tesla lied.
@@sprockkets I was referring to my 2019 Long Range. My RWD Highland has more range in winter compared to it. Much lower Wh/ km.
In both cases, gas or electric. You need to prepare better before Going Out in the cold weather with vehicles. But some don't seem to get that Message registered in their head.