I'm from the UK, it baffles me that people are trying to take away good dog training tools when there are so many aggressive and reactive dogs in shelters and in peoples homes. Keep up the good work and keep on educating people
Trust me it’s shocking. The amount of dogs battersea dogs home put down because of aggression is disgusting, and they won’t allow anyone to use these tools to give them another chance. Need more trainers like haz in the UK! it’s a struggle just finding a trainer that isn’t positive only lol
I'm in UK too, the lack of tools is due to people misusing them instead of using them as training tools, ecollars were being flung on & dogs fried, prongs being misused & injuring dogs. Most of the issues are due to inexperienced/bad owners that get breeds unsuited to their personalities & lifestyles thinking that dogs just behave & there's no training involved nor do they know jack about dog behaviour or body language. That comes down to breeders not vetting homes for experience matches more than income, just cos you got money to buy doesn't make a good owner nor does a high price guarantee a stable dog in adulthood.
@@robward6517 you don't need those tools but you do need someone who is strong enough to handle the dog both psychically & mentally (not get angry at dog which would only make it worse), has the time to train them & socialise them, and a trainee who studies the dogs body language to figure the real why (fear or true aggression + triggers) & how to fix it with balanced training methods plus fully vet home situations over weeks to ensure no lies
@@eartheclipse9623 these tools are being banned because the positive only trainers are trying to get them banned. They don't give a crap how there being used.
@@eartheclipse9623 not every one has a degree in healthy dog management. Some of us are just beautiful dog lovers. I grew up in a home with Rottweilers , German Shepherds and Boxers. My parents had no dog training at all and yet had 6 daughter who all could easily handle these huge dogs. Even now I marvel at those who adopt these strays from 3rd world countries and help them have successful lives here in Canada. They all used a variety of training methods including the E collar but few had formal training. Rather then trade my Dutch Shepherd in for an easier model, I am going to use every possible training strategy (including e collar ) that I can to keep her. Plus like others I feast myself on these type of videos to learn. I realize you are not totally wrong however there is another side to what your saying.
A study that uses language like “positive only training vs. aversive training” or “positive reinforcement focused training vs. punishment focused training” is a joke. An honest scholar will immediately admit that he compares reward manipulation training (including positive reinforcement and negative punishment) versus reward and aversive manipulation training (including positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment and negative punishment). The data I’ve collected so far implies that using aversives in training (like shock collar) speeds up the training and the dog as long as the fair reward is also present. Abusing aversives without reward can slow down training and cause learnt helplessness. I cannot imagine training a police, military or hunting dog without e-colllar that would be irresponsible and dangerous.
Uses a tool incorrectly. "See! It doesn't work!" You just can't with these people. They will twist everything to villainize training. But results speak for themselves.
it is a tool for lazy people that want results fast, it is like steroids for bodybuilding "But results speak for themselves." but maybe it is about how you get there just my opinion.
INCREDIBLE!! Seriously. I would pay $100 for a live stream to watch a positive-only trainer go toe to toe with you. The problem is nobody from their camp will challenge you.
You got that right!!! Another trainer like Haz actually offered several thousand dollars to any PP trainer to work on several things with a dog while he worked the same issues with an ecollar. And not a single one took him up on it.
I tried fixing my reactive, agressive dog with positive reinforcment and rediriection, it didn't fix anything, it just "masked" the issues. He was still tense, he still wanted to go at the other dog and as soon as the treats ran out that's exactly what he did. After using corrections he's actually learning to calm down and be LESS stressed in the long term. Tools that help us corect our dogs are important, I'm glad someone is standing up for that.
I'm in London, UK and we have been working with my shepherd and the ecollar for a week now after watching your videos. Just last month we were working with a positive-only trainer and it honestly made him much worst, more aggressive to other dogs and IMO its a mugs game with clever shepherds. The Positive only trainer micro managed every movement of my dog on the walks and encouraged us to stuff his face full of treats and the 'yes' word constantly...even after 'going for' another dog aggressively she rewarded him by 'distracting' him with treats which didn't work. I'm looking forwards to seeing progress with the ecollar. So far, it's too early to tell but he has been better since I ditched the constant treats and happy clappy 'good vibes only' attitude.
Hang in there. I had a similar negative experience with my extremely reactive rescue Cattle Dog and a positive only trainer. It took a couple of months of ecollar training and exposure to new situations for me to get confident. The dog enjoys off leash freedom 7 days a week now. Haz’s online off leash course is great (if you haven’t checked it out yet)
From the UK too and my dog is quite well trained assuming we're distraction free but he has some terrible jumping up habits I'd like to stop which is not possible with treats only. Have you had anyone notice the collar and say anything? I live in a small village and all the dog owners know one another so not sure what will happen if they find him with an E collar!
@@pukesmells I understand the worry about others judging the ecollar. My dog's fur covers it up so it's not noticeable. However I do have the bright yellow controller visible in my hands and ive not had anybody ask questions yet. If they do I'd be inclined to say I'm using the sound or vibrate only setting to encourage recall or something. It's not a lie.
I wish people would understand positive reinforcement is once part of a quadrant in operant conditioning. And it is never meant to be used by itself it’s meant to be used as one form of communication in conjunction with others.
Thanks for sharing your insight and experience! I am getting an e collar for my pup bc positive only encouragement isn't working completely! Keep up the great work I greatly appreciate it!
I've been using it based upon your course. My dog actually gets excited when I signal him. He knows good things will happen and the training is much easier. Thanks for posting this. I do understand the opposite perspective because I've seen people abuse the tools. We actually had the entire family use the eCollars (including my small children) before we went forward.
Our highest value primary reinforcer is “avoiding aversives”. This comes above sex, food, and play because if it were below and of these reinforcers you would not survive. E collars have an ability to tap into the dogs survival instincts without physically harming the dog. When used correctly it is a great tool
@@MrBobbo18 if we didn’t avoid aversives first then we wouldn’t even have an opportunity to eat. Imagine when we were evolving and didn’t recognize that we were no match for a lion using only our bare hands. You would think oh this is great I am going to eat that lion tonight when I’m reality the lion would eat you. Genetically avoiding aversives comes first above all else
I have trained my own pet dog (who's 11 now) using both the prong and the e-collar and we have a better relationship than any other person and their dog that we've encountered. But I keep hearing 'why the prong/e-collar?' And my answer is always 'because it works'! Thank you, sir, I really enjoyed the video + common sense! 😊👍
E-collars are the absolute best thing to come along since the dog leash. Even with my limited use and experience with them, I am absolutely amazed at the results you get and how quickly they come. Even MORE... they have allowed my dog to be MORE of a dog off leash than just about any dog that has never used an e-collar. The relationship between me and my dog has never been as close and trusting as it is now. I pray the trend of trying to take this tool away from dog trainers doesn't grab hold here in the states. Having said all this, I also understand the importance of correct use of the e-collars.
The trainer for our shepherd was a military and police dog handler for years. We did our e collar training with him. The key is knowing how to properly use the tool. It has been a tremendous tool in our pups development. He's stubborn as hell and there is no way treating him to death etc would have worked. He needed a proper correction for the undesired behaviors. Wouldn't trade our Garmin for anything.
Spot on. My 6 month old Catahoula has a high hunt drive and always pulls in the direction of the tracks that he is scenting as we walked. For the early months I allowed him that freedom because I feel it was good for development of his olfactory sense. Now that he is older, I have to have him under control as he prone to biting and can show “ aggression” towards people and dogs. I carried my bait bag and used rewards trying to train him to heel and what not. Only had success while the food was available. Added the Herm Sprenger into the equation just a couple weeks ago and now we can walk downtown and he will heel and sit as needed. Still needs work but needless to say it was the introduction of obligation through the pinch collar that created that immediate real behavioural change. All it has done is improve our relationship seeing as I am happier, dog is calmer and we actually walk TOGETHER now.
Re: stress. Conveniently they completely ignore the stress levels when under-socialized dogs encounter anything triggering. Sometimes, like my new Staffy-Ridgeback mix, from up to 80 yards away.
He's absolutely right. All kinds of money to be had appealing to the bleeding-hearts. The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior posted a "position statement" on balanced training with the same B.S., and of course it's being cited by every bleeding-heart money-grubbing organization as a basis for legislation against these tools, and donations.
Yes it is!!! And if you even think about contradicting it, you are vilified😡. I was lucky when I started using an ecollar as my vet had trained hunting dogs for years with one. He even gave me advice.
One of these days Beckman is going to break a dogs neck with the stupid gentle leader. Those things are borderline abuse even when the dog isn’t being whipped around by its skull.
Haz you bloody beauty, thanks for everything you do, now need the public and not just us dog training fanatics to see this and many other videos. Funny how these highly qualified scientists didn't think of the bright idea to record every training session and upload it as part of their conclusive paper so we can look at as you say the real overall picture, and not just their laser guided interpretation of their own study. In this day and age, just unbelievable how they can get away without posting any video of their "training", yet for example BF Skinner can post a video of pigeons he trained to play ping pong decades ago, in black and white for god sake.
a 'shock collar' is a different device entirely from an 'electronic collar' I have owned and used and been shown how to use both. They are VERY different in their purpose and correct use method.
Yep I have seen the info and I also remember when the "experts" said you should not play tug with your dog because it made the, too aggressive to people and you should NEVER ever feed your dog people food, remember that? I take in what the experts say with a c=itical filter. I believe what my dog tells me.
We need more people like you in all matters cause the world is turning into this unrealistic un ideal stupid way of life and dealing with everything thats going around
I really hope these collars don't get banned, used properly they absolutely save dogs from being euthanized and can prevent grevious bodily harm to humans.
Thanks for this! The only problem I've ever had with e-collars are the folks who use them incorrectly. Those same inexperienced users are likely part of the push to have them banned. Blaming their own shortcomings on the device. I adopted my shepherd mix when he was 3. I was going to use an e-collar for recall because he really isn't motivated by treats, toys, praise. Squirrels & bunnies tho...let me tell you lol. Soon as he saw the e-collar, he urinated right there on the floor & I immediately knew he had been improperly "trained" w one. I had to desensitize him to even allowing me to put it on him. I've never actually had to use the "shock" function. Just the "beep", so I wouldn't even consider that a "correction" so much as just a tap on the shoulder to get his attention. I still only use it for recall. I live in a major city &, tho his recall is great, I know there is always a chance he might get to a busy street before I can get his focus back on me. I also have it on him at the dog park. He's a serial humper (yes, neutered) which could also get him into trouble if the other dog reacts aggressively. One beep & he's happily bounding right back to me, tongue lolling out of his big doggo grin. I would not, however, use an e-collar for reactivity/aggression. My boy had that issue as well & it was extreme - people & other dogs threw him into a blind rage. I simply desensitized him in controlled settings & very carefully re-socialized him. Worked a dream even though it took a very long time & a lot of patience. Flash forward 11 years & I don't have a single "complaint" about my good boy.
It's all about balance and effective communication, by communicating with your dog in only one way you limit their ability to understand which is why positive only reinforcement is rarely effective beyond basic tricks like sit. It's the same with human children, imagine a child raised only ever being praised and never disciplined or told no. They would end up being a confused menace never able to understand what people actually want from them. Reward good behaviour, correct bad behaviour, you are creating a mental box around the desired behaviour with clearly defined borders that your animal can understand.
Excellent work these dogs are hard working pups. discipline is a must there are dangers e collars will prevent a dog from running into environmental danger or cause danger. with the proper training.
I wish We lived closer to this company. Our mal is doing great but man she could be doing much better with his and his company’s help. Awesome job guys.
I have used an e-collar on my dog over the last 2 years and I will never go back. It is literally an extension to the leash. It is a life saver both to the trainer and the dog. The e-collar I use (probably all are the same) has a beep, vibrate and shock mode. I probably can count on one hand the number of times I used the shock. 99% of the time the beep mode does the trick fo me.
Thank you 💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞 I have a year's worth of ecollar training on my dog and I get compliments about how well behaved, how engaged, and most importantly he trust me. Now I know I am not even on your level, but I have 16yrs of grooming experience at PetSmart ( obviously we conflicted with each other and I left ) but the level of danger I experience on the daily because of spoiled dogs is ridiculous, and you can not protect yourself in these environments. Anywho I can prove like you how well my technique works. That is just confirmation bias because the study wasn't duplicated peer reviewed and so on. It would take years of research and actual studies to prove their point. Like you said in real life situations. This abuse of science gives cause for people not to believe the real science which you showed.
its as simple as this for me, your hands have a reach of a few feet, a lead has a reach of a few meters, a dog will ignore a human yelling as much as it wants, but an ecollar closes the gap and space in between the handler and the dog and allows a physical stimulus to reach the dog over hundreds of feet. this alone wins me over without even considering using the ecollar as anything but a 'tickle' as you say
Several things at play here: - most people don't have time or know how to read scientific papers - it might be hard to truly run an unbiased study - the bar to publish in some scientific papers is lower than others, meaning that "science" may not always employ the scientific method My takeaway is that when I have some time I'm gonna read the studies myself and form my own opinion
This guy making this video included. The study specifies that there was poultry and sheep present. Yet he seems certain it was done in an empty field or building.
@@Azeazezar the study states penned poultry and penned sheep and the study does not state the distance the dogs were from said poultry and sheep. So while it is true that Haz did say empty field which is not accurate , penned poultry and sheep are not going to provide the same stimulus as free roaming livestock.
@@Azeazezar The Lincoln study does not specify sheep were present, they were NOT present for the PPs [too dangerous for the sheep. Lack of real control?] The ecollar dogs had to "work" on a Scottish hillside in the middle of [a bad] winter!!
If anyone were interested, I did a bit of reading. I was surprised to see that 2 of the 5 studies that I read (unscientifically chosen by their order in my google scholar search!!) actually fell to the "ecollar works" category. So at the very least the _perception_ that "science" is telling us that ecollars are bad appears to be misplaced! It also seems that the quality of studies (that I read so far) is really quite poor. Anyone able to point to landmark studies in the area that I (probably) missed?
@@amybennett9545 thanks Amy 😊. I'm so thinking of going g from German commands too French Sounds so beautiful. Couche instead of platz. Think I can do it?
Positive+Negative=Reliability. It's a balancing act. Tip the scales too far on one side and the results just plain suck. Been there. Done that. Was corrected by Haz. Didn't even have to run for my safe space. I owned my shit and learned from it. Accountability is everything. Too bad that society has lost focus on that fact. Passing grades are given to failures and trophies are handed to losers.
I'm a trainee scientist(still studying environmental science (everything lol)) & just got an e-collar for my 1 yr. old one, why? because I plan to hike/camp and train him to do scent work for conservation studies. so far I've had it on him twice so far & neither time was it turned on yet. binge watched how to condition too. let's see how they'll be able to debunk/charge me with abuse when I have a deep interest & scientific knowledge in animal behaviour, conservation/wildlife, social structures and evolution and practical experience with a variety of animals and environments. There are so many studies on animal behaviour that does not fit into reality because they are in controlled environments with another species vs the real wild world & with their own species.
Haz you are just too funny. Love watching your videos, especially when you are obviously enjoying yourself so much. Victor and Gage seem to be having a blast LOL. Obviously very HAPPY dogs!!! As for Vasco he might very well have been put down if you hadn't been able to help him. For that reason alone, the e collar would be worth it. I would definitely shock my dog if it meant saving him from being euthanized. You did a great job with this one. Let science disprove that. ;0)
I will add that the collar never hurts the dog, he presents his head for me to attach it and he's now amazingly obedient off leash. He rarely needs a reminder now. People are actually jealous my dog is well behaved off leash while their aggressive rats on leash are trying to bite mine.
I would have loved if you actually read the study in detail and talked about the shortcomings from a science point of view as well, it would have given a more well rounded overview. For anyone interested: Positive points: -use of ECMA accredited e collar -control group 1 - e collar trainers without the use of e collar -use of APDT UK members for control group -stimuli adapted to dogs sensitivity -trainers allowed to use food rewards with no limit _dogs trained in an enclosed area with fenced off sheep Negatives: -different weather conditions (winter for e collar dogs) - in my poinion one of the most important limitations -funding bias -unknown brand of e collar -unknown accreditation of e collar trainers -e collar use 'best practice' reffered to not described in detail -short training time -no record of stimuli frequency or strength used (overuse possible) -same environment throughout trial (desensitization) -focused on two commands rather than well rounded obedience -no new distraction introduced -no ability to use toys as reinforcement *and probably a lot more. Not a horribly designed study but clear risk of bias present
Something tells me no one would watch that video. 🙂 Many of the studies touted today as a standard of proof on a variety of topics lack critical information and make claims based on correlation instead of causation. Good that you read and understood what the issues were. Had they conducted a blind trial using competing motivators and a more realistic test site, as well as ensured the collars and trainers where of high quality the results would have had more meaning. However, for their purposes it was more then enough to push forward the agenda.
@@jfkst1 I agree with #1&3 but regarding treats it was trainers choice how much reinforcement to use, thus R+ trainers chose to use more treats and ecollar trainers chose to use less
@@klaudiacebula2298 Absolutely true. However, operant conditioning doesn't necessitate mutually exclusive inputs. That could very well mean the positive reinforcement schedule should be more frequent rather than the positive punishment quadrant should be reduced/abandoned as the study is implying.
@@jfkst1 that is very true and I do agree but that is the issue with studies like this, this study was essentialy comparing different trainer's methods rather than balanced vs R+ only and it would not be in line with the methodology to ask the trainers to change their methods. I do however agree that the conclusions are written in a biased way and imply a negative consequence when using e collar rather than highlighting that increasing the reinforcement AND using e collar could increase the overall benefit since with lower reinforcement the two methods are about equal in the study
A "study" is only as informative as it is comprehensive. A "short study" cannot prove or disprove any theory - it can only raise MORE QUESTIONS - and the need for further study. Obviously, Haz, you produce RESULTS - lasting results. Tested - Tried - and TRUE. So do any of us really give a dog whiz about poorly organized, short study "science" - HELLZ TO THE NO! Thank you. Carry on.
I have spent 3 years training my GSD I would love my E collar which has been lying in the UK for two years can't get it into Cyprus as they are banned it would just finish my girls obedience great chat
I think a ton of anti-Ecollar people have the belief that the ecollar is "effective" from the moment its put on. They completely disregard the conditioning required in order to make it a positive experience. A clicker, not properly conditioned, could cause a lot of fear in a dog. If you associate a clicker to physical punishment then you have successfully turned a marker into a fear inducing thing. The ecollar can be conditioned for many things such as a recall que. The ecollar is so powerful but in the wrong hands it is terrifying. Edit: if you revisit this study, I think it would be super cool if you did a comparison. Like, train up a dog without ecollar and study how long it takes the dog to figure out the wanted behavior and then compar that with an ecollar trained dog. I love what the ecollar has done for my dog and our bond. My ACD has developed a better relationship with me than when we focused on +R only. It's important IMO that a handler understand and have many tools in their training tool box. I use +R to teach new commands then incorporate the ecollar when the dog understands. I'm currently learning about BAT 2.0 to learn and help my dog learn social skills (my dog isn't a fan of others and I think it would help if we learned proper social cues and help develop friendly curiosity)
The thing that stands out to me about the study is that they only used extremely simple commands. R+ probably DOES work more quickly for teaching one off “tricks”, but if I had to guess, long term retention is lower, and there’s no way on earth you can train a dog to the highest levels doing complex tasks using only R+.
I guess I misunderstood what you said, was the study done on beginner dogs with no training on them at all? Or dogs like yours that I’ve been training for years they do competition sports
IIRC the study specifies that dogs selected for the study had no e collar training and were identified as easily distracted by their owners. Doesn't specify their previous level of training.
Positive only training does not work on ALL dogs. Temperament and personality of the dog should be the deciding factor on what training methods to use. I have trained each of my past device dogs. Each one was trained using the method that worked for THAT dog. Some methods didn’t work on certain dogs. I love learning new methods of training. ANY training method or training device CAN be used in an abusive manner. Training equipment/device CAN cause injury when not used CORRECTLY. Keep posting I enjoy watching. Some studies are done a certain way to get the results wanted. Which I called rigged to get results they want.
Long line, start doing recall work on that, once he's reliable at long line distance you can drop it (let it trail behind dog) to increase distance, it still gives you that distance behind to dog to catch him if you had to, but he should be pretty reliable before that stage) Good practice for staying in sit, stand or down at a distance or in motion too.
I’d like to see the study that you’re talking about is it with working dogs like yours? Pet dogs? You buy strong working dogs genetically condition so this type of training I don’t think the study you’re doing exactly it is the same as what they did but I would have to see that study I just can’t take somebody’s word
I trained military dogs for years. I have recently started my own pet training company. About half of my clients so far are people who have already had there dogs trained by positive trainers. The dogs are usually really good at sitting and giving there paw. (I’ve grown to hate that trick) but much beyond that it all falls apart. Especially dogs that are reactive.
Haz, is it possible to train dogs effectively without any equipment? Curious what is achievable without the tools we have today, imagine back in the day
Hi, I qualified up to 4 dogs to UK KC Champion level obedience all through the 70's, We had loads of "tools" Primarily the "choke" chain, which was attached to a leash, Although Ceaser Milan wasn't around, we were aware of "state of mind. Dogs were trained in Drive mode, upbeat, exited. and REWARDED, with praise, toys, and TREATS [we made our own. couldn't buy them].
I'm from the UK. I bought a GSD at 6 months old. Due to the covid lockdown it hadn't been properly socialised. He was aggressive towards other dogs. I brought in a "positive only" dog trainer, and after many sessions and hundreds of pounds there was no difference...shock, horror. In the UK its almost impossible to find a good trainer thats not positive only. So in the end we had to return the dog to the breeder. Proper studies need done on this subject, and not one sided studies.
Him not being properly socialized has nothing to do with it. I have GSD for 6 years and i only used positive training. My dog is not agressive toward other dogs he just pulls really hard and wants to go meet dog so bad and when i dont let him then he starts barking out of frustration. He has actually met 100's of different dogs but this never improved infact it got worse that when i would start walking away from the dog he would pull with all his might injuring his throat. The final straw was when he pulled so much that for two weeks he was throwing up white mucus and making throw up sounds because he had hurt his neck. Finally i started ecoller training and instantly it fixed the issue where as before i could have had a whole lamb 100's of steaks in front of him and the only thing he would care about is going to meet that dog. Positive training effective to a certain degree but if you want reliability ecoller is a must.
@@15xgg80 him not being properly socialised has everything to do with it. It's a key developing stage. This is why it's called "socialising period" for a reason. They need to be introduced to different dogs, people, noises and so on so they don't become fearful of it. Don't take my word for it, look into it for yourself. Without it they will not be a well balanced dog. As for leash pulling, that's corrected through proper training, not hard to correct.
You mean he had fear based aggression, treats wouldn't work but learning with a slip lead or martingale 'pop' would have, I've had 3 gsds & now 2 Mali's. I expect some reactivity from time to time with my dogs they aren't robots, especially until they are 2.5 years, it's you as an owner who needs to know your dog, suss the situation before you take your dog in there & know how & when to correct him/take him away. Overloading the dog in one session can undo good work. For instance going from a quiet garden to a city centre...that's scary even for some people, doesn't mean you get to act like an ass though & some dogs learn early (especially big breeds) that people avoid them & if they bark people move away from them which reinforces that barking at people out of fear instead of working through it. , Most owners also remove barking pups from situation everytime out of embarrassment too which again reinforces that it's bad & that the dog is leader because if he barks you take him away from where he doesn't want to be, thus getting what he wants & not learning anything. obviously you have to start at distances from the scary stuff, correct/ignore & reward at right times to gain control there before moving closer to distractions, it takes time, lots of it.
I'm from the UK, it baffles me that people are trying to take away good dog training tools when there are so many aggressive and reactive dogs in shelters and in peoples homes. Keep up the good work and keep on educating people
Trust me it’s shocking. The amount of dogs battersea dogs home put down because of aggression is disgusting, and they won’t allow anyone to use these tools to give them another chance. Need more trainers like haz in the UK! it’s a struggle just finding a trainer that isn’t positive only lol
I'm in UK too, the lack of tools is due to people misusing them instead of using them as training tools, ecollars were being flung on & dogs fried, prongs being misused & injuring dogs.
Most of the issues are due to inexperienced/bad owners that get breeds unsuited to their personalities & lifestyles thinking that dogs just behave & there's no training involved nor do they know jack about dog behaviour or body language. That comes down to breeders not vetting homes for experience matches more than income, just cos you got money to buy doesn't make a good owner nor does a high price guarantee a stable dog in adulthood.
@@robward6517 you don't need those tools but you do need someone who is strong enough to handle the dog both psychically & mentally (not get angry at dog which would only make it worse), has the time to train them & socialise them, and a trainee who studies the dogs body language to figure the real why (fear or true aggression + triggers) & how to fix it with balanced training methods plus fully vet home situations over weeks to ensure no lies
@@eartheclipse9623 these tools are being banned because the positive only trainers are trying to get them banned. They don't give a crap how there being used.
@@eartheclipse9623 not every one has a degree in healthy dog management. Some of us are just beautiful dog lovers. I grew up in a home with Rottweilers , German Shepherds and Boxers. My parents had no dog training at all and yet had 6 daughter who all could easily handle these huge dogs. Even now I marvel at those who adopt these strays from 3rd world countries and help them have successful lives here in Canada. They all used a variety of training methods including the E collar but few had formal training. Rather then trade my Dutch Shepherd in for an easier model, I am going to use every possible training strategy (including e collar ) that I can to keep her. Plus like others I feast myself on these type of videos to learn. I realize you are not totally wrong however there is another side to what your saying.
Great job brother! Not just telling them how it is but showing them how it's done. Keep up the great work!
glad you support him im a fan of both your work.
I like you guys both. Thanks for your work with dogs and owners.
A study that uses language like “positive only training vs. aversive training” or “positive reinforcement focused training vs. punishment focused training” is a joke.
An honest scholar will immediately admit that he compares reward manipulation training (including positive reinforcement and negative punishment) versus reward and aversive manipulation training (including positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment and negative punishment).
The data I’ve collected so far implies that using aversives in training (like shock collar) speeds up the training and the dog as long as the fair reward is also present. Abusing aversives without reward can slow down training and cause learnt helplessness.
I cannot imagine training a police, military or hunting dog without e-colllar that would be irresponsible and dangerous.
Balanced training
Is where it's at!
Bravo!!
It’s impossible to train or live with high drive dogs without an E collar. It would drive you mad.
Uses a tool incorrectly. "See! It doesn't work!"
You just can't with these people. They will twist everything to villainize training. But results speak for themselves.
Precisely this. Cliff notes of the study; dogs were
it is a tool for lazy people that want results fast, it is like steroids for bodybuilding "But results speak for themselves." but maybe it is about how you get there just my opinion.
I love that you actuallly put things to the test instead of being all "talk".I really enjoy your videos, please keep them coming!!
The phony academics are the actual Science Deniers.
INCREDIBLE!! Seriously. I would pay $100 for a live stream to watch a positive-only trainer go toe to toe with you. The problem is nobody from their camp will challenge you.
You got that right!!! Another trainer like Haz actually offered several thousand dollars to any PP trainer to work on several things with a dog while he worked the same issues with an ecollar. And not a single one took him up on it.
Exactly there all full of shit. Typical lefty woke behaviour. All show no go.
I’d pay to see that too!
I tried fixing my reactive, agressive dog with positive reinforcment and rediriection, it didn't fix anything, it just "masked" the issues. He was still tense, he still wanted to go at the other dog and as soon as the treats ran out that's exactly what he did. After using corrections he's actually learning to calm down and be LESS stressed in the long term. Tools that help us corect our dogs are important, I'm glad someone is standing up for that.
I'm in London, UK and we have been working with my shepherd and the ecollar for a week now after watching your videos. Just last month we were working with a positive-only trainer and it honestly made him much worst, more aggressive to other dogs and IMO its a mugs game with clever shepherds. The Positive only trainer micro managed every movement of my dog on the walks and encouraged us to stuff his face full of treats and the 'yes' word constantly...even after 'going for' another dog aggressively she rewarded him by 'distracting' him with treats which didn't work. I'm looking forwards to seeing progress with the ecollar. So far, it's too early to tell but he has been better since I ditched the constant treats and happy clappy 'good vibes only' attitude.
Hang in there. I had a similar negative experience with my extremely reactive rescue Cattle Dog and a positive only trainer. It took a couple of months of ecollar training and exposure to new situations for me to get confident. The dog enjoys off leash freedom 7 days a week now. Haz’s online off leash course is great (if you haven’t checked it out yet)
From the UK too and my dog is quite well trained assuming we're distraction free but he has some terrible jumping up habits I'd like to stop which is not possible with treats only. Have you had anyone notice the collar and say anything? I live in a small village and all the dog owners know one another so not sure what will happen if they find him with an E collar!
@@pukesmells I understand the worry about others judging the ecollar. My dog's fur covers it up so it's not noticeable. However I do have the bright yellow controller visible in my hands and ive not had anybody ask questions yet. If they do I'd be inclined to say I'm using the sound or vibrate only setting to encourage recall or something. It's not a lie.
@@jeradhoffman3937 glad you turned things around and are getting world class results. Very encouraging
@@pukesmells f* them.
Loved this, and love what you do! Your content is so important for the dog industry as a whole! Keep it up! Much love and support from Florida 🙏🏻🌴☀️
Ecollars are in my opinion the best tool, allows clear dog communication and freedom
Haz is one of the GOATS. Props my man. Good work! So cool seeing how these dogs are so dialed in what they do. Gives me motivation to train better
I wish people would understand positive reinforcement is once part of a quadrant in operant conditioning. And it is never meant to be used by itself it’s meant to be used as one form of communication in conjunction with others.
Thanks for sharing your insight and experience! I am getting an e collar for my pup bc positive only encouragement isn't working completely! Keep up the great work I greatly appreciate it!
love your videos and your work, this was perfect and important info on the E-collar!! more ppl need to see this. THANK YOU!
“ Beat That! CHIPP!” 😂😂 Haz, you’re amazing !! 🤣
Really like your presentation and good common sense! Keep up the good training!
I've been using it based upon your course. My dog actually gets excited when I signal him. He knows good things will happen and the training is much easier. Thanks for posting this. I do understand the opposite perspective because I've seen people abuse the tools. We actually had the entire family use the eCollars (including my small children) before we went forward.
Excellent training from one of the best trainers out there !!!🙏🏾
I love what you do at shield K9 keep doing what you do.
Our highest value primary reinforcer is “avoiding aversives”. This comes above sex, food, and play because if it were below and of these reinforcers you would not survive. E collars have an ability to tap into the dogs survival instincts without physically harming the dog. When used correctly it is a great tool
Food doesn’t?
@@MrBobbo18 if we didn’t avoid aversives first then we wouldn’t even have an opportunity to eat. Imagine when we were evolving and didn’t recognize that we were no match for a lion using only our bare hands. You would think oh this is great I am going to eat that lion tonight when I’m reality the lion would eat you. Genetically avoiding aversives comes first above all else
I have trained my own pet dog (who's 11 now) using both the prong and the e-collar and we have a better relationship than any other person and their dog that we've encountered. But I keep hearing 'why the prong/e-collar?' And my answer is always 'because it works'! Thank you, sir, I really enjoyed the video + common sense! 😊👍
Excellent video, thanks for putting this out.
Brilliant video, I am glad you put this out there.
Yesssss!! You are the man for making this awesome video!!!!!👊🏻
E-collars are the absolute best thing to come along since the dog leash. Even with my limited use and experience with them, I am absolutely amazed at the results you get and how quickly they come. Even MORE... they have allowed my dog to be MORE of a dog off leash than just about any dog that has never used an e-collar. The relationship between me and my dog has never been as close and trusting as it is now. I pray the trend of trying to take this tool away from dog trainers doesn't grab hold here in the states. Having said all this, I also understand the importance of correct use of the e-collars.
The trainer for our shepherd was a military and police dog handler for years. We did our e collar training with him. The key is knowing how to properly use the tool. It has been a tremendous tool in our pups development. He's stubborn as hell and there is no way treating him to death etc would have worked. He needed a proper correction for the undesired behaviors. Wouldn't trade our Garmin for anything.
Spot on. My 6 month old Catahoula has a high hunt drive and always pulls in the direction of the tracks that he is scenting as we walked. For the early months I allowed him that freedom because I feel it was good for development of his olfactory sense.
Now that he is older, I have to have him under control as he prone to biting and can show “ aggression” towards people and dogs.
I carried my bait bag and used rewards trying to train him to heel and what not. Only had success while the food was available.
Added the Herm Sprenger into the equation just a couple weeks ago and now we can walk downtown and he will heel and sit as needed. Still needs work but needless to say it was the introduction of obligation through the pinch collar that created that immediate real behavioural change. All it has done is improve our relationship seeing as I am happier, dog is calmer and we actually walk TOGETHER now.
Re: stress. Conveniently they completely ignore the stress levels when under-socialized dogs encounter anything triggering. Sometimes, like my new Staffy-Ridgeback mix, from up to 80 yards away.
xD I love the sarcasm in this.
He's absolutely right. All kinds of money to be had appealing to the bleeding-hearts. The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior posted a "position statement" on balanced training with the same B.S., and of course it's being cited by every bleeding-heart money-grubbing organization as a basis for legislation against these tools, and donations.
Yes it is!!! And if you even think about contradicting it, you are vilified😡.
I was lucky when I started using an ecollar as my vet had trained hunting dogs for years with one. He even gave me advice.
I have been waiting for this!! I've seen Beckman's take, Zak George's take, and now am SUPER excited for Haz's take!!!
Beckmans too worried about subscribers to use other tools that work.
Like a prong collar or ecollar.imo.
The way Beckmann pops dogs on flat collars and thinks it’s better than low level stim is beyond common sense.
@@kevinle934 I have actually never heard him talk about ecollars... I am sure he has but I've never watched it. You are VERY correct nonetheless!!!
One of these days Beckman is going to break a dogs neck with the stupid gentle leader. Those things are borderline abuse even when the dog isn’t being whipped around by its skull.
You are a very good educator, Haz.
Haz you bloody beauty, thanks for everything you do, now need the public and not just us dog training fanatics to see this and many other videos. Funny how these highly qualified scientists didn't think of the bright idea to record every training session and upload it as part of their conclusive paper so we can look at as you say the real overall picture, and not just their laser guided interpretation of their own study. In this day and age, just unbelievable how they can get away without posting any video of their "training", yet for example BF Skinner can post a video of pigeons he trained to play ping pong decades ago, in black and white for god sake.
Thanks for that. We have a high drive 11 month old shepherd and we were reluctant to use the shock collar. Now we will. Appreciated.
a 'shock collar' is a different device entirely from an 'electronic collar' I have owned and used and been shown how to use both. They are VERY different in their purpose and correct use method.
Oh my that is so awesome and it makes the dog more beautiful. ❤
Yep I have seen the info and I also remember when the "experts" said you should not play tug with your dog because it made the, too aggressive to people and you should NEVER ever feed your dog people food, remember that? I take in what the experts say with a c=itical filter. I believe what my dog tells me.
We need more people like you in all matters cause the world is turning into this unrealistic un ideal stupid way of life and dealing with everything thats going around
I really hope these collars don't get banned, used properly they absolutely save dogs from being euthanized and can prevent grevious bodily harm to humans.
Thanks for this! The only problem I've ever had with e-collars are the folks who use them incorrectly. Those same inexperienced users are likely part of the push to have them banned. Blaming their own shortcomings on the device. I adopted my shepherd mix when he was 3. I was going to use an e-collar for recall because he really isn't motivated by treats, toys, praise. Squirrels & bunnies tho...let me tell you lol. Soon as he saw the e-collar, he urinated right there on the floor & I immediately knew he had been improperly "trained" w one. I had to desensitize him to even allowing me to put it on him. I've never actually had to use the "shock" function. Just the "beep", so I wouldn't even consider that a "correction" so much as just a tap on the shoulder to get his attention. I still only use it for recall. I live in a major city &, tho his recall is great, I know there is always a chance he might get to a busy street before I can get his focus back on me. I also have it on him at the dog park. He's a serial humper (yes, neutered) which could also get him into trouble if the other dog reacts aggressively. One beep & he's happily bounding right back to me, tongue lolling out of his big doggo grin. I would not, however, use an e-collar for reactivity/aggression. My boy had that issue as well & it was extreme - people & other dogs threw him into a blind rage. I simply desensitized him in controlled settings & very carefully re-socialized him. Worked a dream even though it took a very long time & a lot of patience. Flash forward 11 years & I don't have a single "complaint" about my good boy.
Love your videos.
AWESOME video!
It's all about balance and effective communication, by communicating with your dog in only one way you limit their ability to understand which is why positive only reinforcement is rarely effective beyond basic tricks like sit.
It's the same with human children, imagine a child raised only ever being praised and never disciplined or told no. They would end up being a confused menace never able to understand what people actually want from them.
Reward good behaviour, correct bad behaviour, you are creating a mental box around the desired behaviour with clearly defined borders that your animal can understand.
Excellent work these dogs are hard working pups. discipline is a must there are dangers e collars will prevent a dog from running into environmental danger or cause danger. with the proper training.
Great video!!!
I wish We lived closer to this company. Our mal is doing great but man she could be doing much better with his and his company’s help. Awesome job guys.
Just keep watching videos from him, Robert cobral, David Beckmann, Ivan bablanov, etc, and then train your mal yourself, super rewarding trust me
@@frankteng how can you even mention david beckman in the same sentence as balabanov and robert cabral
Loved this!
Great video
I have used an e-collar on my dog over the last 2 years and I will never go back. It is literally an extension to the leash. It is a life saver both to the trainer and the dog. The e-collar I use (probably all are the same) has a beep, vibrate and shock mode. I probably can count on one hand the number of times I used the shock. 99% of the time the beep mode does the trick fo me.
Thank you 💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞 I have a year's worth of ecollar training on my dog and I get compliments about how well behaved, how engaged, and most importantly he trust me. Now I know I am not even on your level, but I have 16yrs of grooming experience at PetSmart ( obviously we conflicted with each other and I left ) but the level of danger I experience on the daily because of spoiled dogs is ridiculous, and you can not protect yourself in these environments. Anywho I can prove like you how well my technique works. That is just confirmation bias because the study wasn't duplicated peer reviewed and so on. It would take years of research and actual studies to prove their point. Like you said in real life situations. This abuse of science gives cause for people not to believe the real science which you showed.
its as simple as this for me, your hands have a reach of a few feet, a lead has a reach of a few meters, a dog will ignore a human yelling as much as it wants, but an ecollar closes the gap and space in between the handler and the dog and allows a physical stimulus to reach the dog over hundreds of feet. this alone wins me over without even considering using the ecollar as anything but a 'tickle' as you say
The driving analogy is very good
Thank you for the video I just watch it about the e caller do you sell the you the rope ball
Several things at play here:
- most people don't have time or know how to read scientific papers
- it might be hard to truly run an unbiased study
- the bar to publish in some scientific papers is lower than others, meaning that "science" may not always employ the scientific method
My takeaway is that when I have some time I'm gonna read the studies myself and form my own opinion
This guy making this video included.
The study specifies that there was poultry and sheep present. Yet he seems certain it was done in an empty field or building.
@@Azeazezar the study states penned poultry and penned sheep and the study does not state the distance the dogs were from said poultry and sheep. So while it is true that Haz did say empty field which is not accurate , penned poultry and sheep are not going to provide the same stimulus as free roaming livestock.
@@Azeazezar The Lincoln study does not specify sheep were present, they were NOT present for the PPs [too dangerous for the sheep. Lack of real control?] The ecollar dogs had to "work" on a Scottish hillside in the middle of [a bad] winter!!
If anyone were interested, I did a bit of reading. I was surprised to see that 2 of the 5 studies that I read (unscientifically chosen by their order in my google scholar search!!) actually fell to the "ecollar works" category. So at the very least the _perception_ that "science" is telling us that ecollars are bad appears to be misplaced!
It also seems that the quality of studies (that I read so far) is really quite poor.
Anyone able to point to landmark studies in the area that I (probably) missed?
I'm in the UK 🇬🇧 and use an e collar 🐾🐶🐾
Such beautiful dogs.
Awesome well trained dog! 🎉
Thank you for telling the fing truth!
Excellent training video brother.
What was the command used to let the dog go back to biting the toy after the ous command?
Thank you.
The reward marker. He uses ‘chirp’ as his reward marker to say when the dog can have the reward again after ous.
@@amybennett9545 thanks Amy 😊.
I'm so thinking of going g from German commands too French
Sounds so beautiful.
Couche instead of platz.
Think I can do it?
I would like to see a piece of treat that brings back a high drive dog from chasing a pray. I would sell my house for those treats
What is the soonest age you can use the e collar ? Thanks.
Positive+Negative=Reliability. It's a balancing act. Tip the scales too far on one side and the results just plain suck. Been there. Done that. Was corrected by Haz. Didn't even have to run for my safe space. I owned my shit and learned from it. Accountability is everything. Too bad that society has lost focus on that fact. Passing grades are given to failures and trophies are handed to losers.
I'm a trainee scientist(still studying environmental science (everything lol)) & just got an e-collar for my 1 yr. old one, why? because I plan to hike/camp and train him to do scent work for conservation studies. so far I've had it on him twice so far & neither time was it turned on yet. binge watched how to condition too.
let's see how they'll be able to debunk/charge me with abuse when I have a deep interest & scientific knowledge in animal behaviour, conservation/wildlife, social structures and evolution and practical experience with a variety of animals and environments. There are so many studies on animal behaviour that does not fit into reality because they are in controlled environments with another species vs the real wild world & with their own species.
I would love my gsd to be half as good as yours great video again 👍🇬🇧
Well done. Facts, all of the facts.
What brand of e collar would you recommend?
The ecollar is amazing! My Newfie is 155lbs I ❤️it!!!
Luv how ur testing their results
Haz you are just too funny. Love watching your videos, especially when you are obviously enjoying yourself so much. Victor and Gage seem to be having a blast LOL. Obviously very HAPPY dogs!!! As for Vasco he might very well have been put down if you hadn't been able to help him. For that reason alone, the e collar would be worth it. I would definitely shock my dog if it meant saving him from being euthanized.
You did a great job with this one. Let science disprove that. ;0)
I will add that the collar never hurts the dog, he presents his head for me to attach it and he's now amazingly obedient off leash. He rarely needs a reminder now. People are actually jealous my dog is well behaved off leash while their aggressive rats on leash are trying to bite mine.
E collars should only be used when a dog fully 110% the command that is being given. But they are a very useful tool in dog training!
I would have loved if you actually read the study in detail and talked about the shortcomings from a science point of view as well, it would have given a more well rounded overview. For anyone interested:
Positive points:
-use of ECMA accredited e collar
-control group 1 - e collar trainers without the use of e collar
-use of APDT UK members for control group
-stimuli adapted to dogs sensitivity
-trainers allowed to use food rewards with no limit
_dogs trained in an enclosed area with fenced off sheep
Negatives:
-different weather conditions (winter for e collar dogs) - in my poinion one of the most important limitations
-funding bias
-unknown brand of e collar
-unknown accreditation of e collar trainers
-e collar use 'best practice' reffered to not described in detail
-short training time
-no record of stimuli frequency or strength used (overuse possible)
-same environment throughout trial (desensitization)
-focused on two commands rather than well rounded obedience
-no new distraction introduced
-no ability to use toys as reinforcement
*and probably a lot more. Not a horribly designed study but clear risk of bias present
Something tells me no one would watch that video. 🙂
Many of the studies touted today as a standard of proof on a variety of topics lack critical information and make claims based on correlation instead of causation.
Good that you read and understood what the issues were.
Had they conducted a blind trial using competing motivators and a more realistic test site, as well as ensured the collars and trainers where of high quality the results would have had more meaning.
However, for their purposes it was more then enough to push forward the agenda.
Im halfway through the study and three items I would address in that study are:
#1 dogs were
@@jfkst1 I agree with #1&3 but regarding treats it was trainers choice how much reinforcement to use, thus R+ trainers chose to use more treats and ecollar trainers chose to use less
@@klaudiacebula2298
Absolutely true. However, operant conditioning doesn't necessitate mutually exclusive inputs. That could very well mean the positive reinforcement schedule should be more frequent rather than the positive punishment quadrant should be reduced/abandoned as the study is implying.
@@jfkst1 that is very true and I do agree but that is the issue with studies like this, this study was essentialy comparing different trainer's methods rather than balanced vs R+ only and it would not be in line with the methodology to ask the trainers to change their methods. I do however agree that the conclusions are written in a biased way and imply a negative consequence when using e collar rather than highlighting that increasing the reinforcement AND using e collar could increase the overall benefit since with lower reinforcement the two methods are about equal in the study
how about the study on grain free what are your thoughts?
You speak far too much sense Haz...😉love it. 👍
In Texas E-collars are used to teach dogs to avoid rattle snakes with de-fanged rattle snakes.
A "study" is only as informative as it is comprehensive. A "short study" cannot prove or disprove any theory - it can only raise MORE QUESTIONS - and the need for further study.
Obviously, Haz, you produce RESULTS - lasting results. Tested - Tried - and TRUE. So do any of us really give a dog whiz about poorly organized, short study "science" - HELLZ TO THE NO! Thank you. Carry on.
You can train my shepherd anytime! Your boy looks completely in tune.
Do you have a link to the study?
I have spent 3 years training my GSD I would love my E collar which has been lying in the UK for two years can't get it into Cyprus as they are banned it would just finish my girls obedience great chat
Love this! Amazing Thank you ❤
And relevant again and there is another serious push for banning now
I love your sarcasm lol
Real life vs academia nice moto i like it .In the positive world nobody talk's about two forms of stress
That’s one happy dog!!!
I think a ton of anti-Ecollar people have the belief that the ecollar is "effective" from the moment its put on. They completely disregard the conditioning required in order to make it a positive experience. A clicker, not properly conditioned, could cause a lot of fear in a dog. If you associate a clicker to physical punishment then you have successfully turned a marker into a fear inducing thing. The ecollar can be conditioned for many things such as a recall que. The ecollar is so powerful but in the wrong hands it is terrifying.
Edit: if you revisit this study, I think it would be super cool if you did a comparison. Like, train up a dog without ecollar and study how long it takes the dog to figure out the wanted behavior and then compar that with an ecollar trained dog.
I love what the ecollar has done for my dog and our bond. My ACD has developed a better relationship with me than when we focused on +R only. It's important IMO that a handler understand and have many tools in their training tool box. I use +R to teach new commands then incorporate the ecollar when the dog understands. I'm currently learning about BAT 2.0 to learn and help my dog learn social skills (my dog isn't a fan of others and I think it would help if we learned proper social cues and help develop friendly curiosity)
The thing that stands out to me about the study is that they only used extremely simple commands. R+ probably DOES work more quickly for teaching one off “tricks”, but if I had to guess, long term retention is lower, and there’s no way on earth you can train a dog to the highest levels doing complex tasks using only R+.
Is puppies for sale in sable gsd
If used right it’s an amazing tool.
I guess I misunderstood what you said, was the study done on beginner dogs with no training on them at all? Or dogs like yours that I’ve been training for years they do competition sports
IIRC the study specifies that dogs selected for the study had no e collar training and were identified as easily distracted by their owners. Doesn't specify their previous level of training.
@@jfkst1 thank you. So they were not seasoned dogs to the collar like these are.
Is there a link to see or read this ?
Nice work! Dogs don't lie
What E collar is being used?
Mini educator
Positive only training does not work on ALL dogs. Temperament and personality of the dog should be the deciding factor on what training methods to use. I have trained each of my past device dogs. Each one was trained using the method that worked for THAT dog. Some methods didn’t work on certain dogs. I love learning new methods of training. ANY training method or training device CAN be used in an abusive manner. Training equipment/device CAN cause injury when not used CORRECTLY. Keep posting I enjoy watching. Some studies are done a certain way to get the results wanted. Which I called rigged to get results they want.
I Wish you were my dad. i bought your puppy course and am confused when do i move on to the next phase of off lease walking
Long line, start doing recall work on that, once he's reliable at long line distance you can drop it (let it trail behind dog) to increase distance, it still gives you that distance behind to dog to catch him if you had to, but he should be pretty reliable before that stage) Good practice for staying in sit, stand or down at a distance or in motion too.
Why do you have two stimulators? Is that what I'm seeing? No complaints, just curious.
What happens when the Ecollar fails such as battery or owner forgets the collar?
Nothing happens..didnt you watch the video?
Reliability requires the handler to be reliable too.
balanced with an E collar is better for the dog than balanced without the E collar. the results are practical from both unlike positive only.
I bet some of these "purely positive" trainers on RUclips are loving the fact that the dislike button is no longer available 🤣
I’d like to see the study that you’re talking about is it with working dogs like yours? Pet dogs?
You buy strong working dogs genetically condition so this type of training
I don’t think the study you’re doing exactly it is the same as what they did but I would have to see that study I just can’t take somebody’s word
I trained military dogs for years.
I have recently started my own pet training company.
About half of my clients so far are people who have already had there dogs trained by positive trainers.
The dogs are usually really good at sitting and giving there paw. (I’ve grown to hate that trick) but much beyond that it all falls apart. Especially dogs that are reactive.
Where can uo find your online videos ? For cash
Haz, is it possible to train dogs effectively without any equipment? Curious what is achievable without the tools we have today, imagine back in the day
And no, I’m not talking positive only training, could you imagine those folks back in the day 🤣
And no, I’m not talking positive only training, could you imagine those folks back in the day 🤣
Hi, I qualified up to 4 dogs to UK KC Champion level obedience all through the 70's, We had loads of "tools" Primarily the "choke" chain, which was attached to a leash, Although Ceaser Milan wasn't around, we were aware of "state of mind. Dogs were trained in Drive mode, upbeat, exited. and REWARDED, with praise, toys, and TREATS [we made our own. couldn't buy them].
back in the day they trained them with whips and spankings. spankings work as well.
Yup. Whips, fists and slingshots go back a long way.
I'm from the UK. I bought a GSD at 6 months old. Due to the covid lockdown it hadn't been properly socialised. He was aggressive towards other dogs. I brought in a "positive only" dog trainer, and after many sessions and hundreds of pounds there was no difference...shock, horror. In the UK its almost impossible to find a good trainer thats not positive only. So in the end we had to return the dog to the breeder. Proper studies need done on this subject, and not one sided studies.
I'm in UK too.
That sounds like a nightmare.
Him not being properly socialized has nothing to do with it. I have GSD for 6 years and i only used positive training. My dog is not agressive toward other dogs he just pulls really hard and wants to go meet dog so bad and when i dont let him then he starts barking out of frustration. He has actually met 100's of different dogs but this never improved infact it got worse that when i would start walking away from the dog he would pull with all his might injuring his throat. The final straw was when he pulled so much that for two weeks he was throwing up white mucus and making throw up sounds because he had hurt his neck. Finally i started ecoller training and instantly it fixed the issue where as before i could have had a whole lamb 100's of steaks in front of him and the only thing he would care about is going to meet that dog. Positive training effective to a certain degree but if you want reliability ecoller is a must.
@@15xgg80 him not being properly socialised has everything to do with it. It's a key developing stage. This is why it's called "socialising period" for a reason. They need to be introduced to different dogs, people, noises and so on so they don't become fearful of it. Don't take my word for it, look into it for yourself. Without it they will not be a well balanced dog. As for leash pulling, that's corrected through proper training, not hard to correct.
You mean he had fear based aggression, treats wouldn't work but learning with a slip lead or martingale 'pop' would have, I've had 3 gsds & now 2 Mali's. I expect some reactivity from time to time with my dogs they aren't robots, especially until they are 2.5 years, it's you as an owner who needs to know your dog, suss the situation before you take your dog in there & know how & when to correct him/take him away. Overloading the dog in one session can undo good work. For instance going from a quiet garden to a city centre...that's scary even for some people, doesn't mean you get to act like an ass though & some dogs learn early (especially big breeds) that people avoid them & if they bark people move away from them which reinforces that barking at people out of fear instead of working through it. , Most owners also remove barking pups from situation everytime out of embarrassment too which again reinforces that it's bad & that the dog is leader because if he barks you take him away from where he doesn't want to be, thus getting what he wants & not learning anything. obviously you have to start at distances from the scary stuff, correct/ignore & reward at right times to gain control there before moving closer to distractions, it takes time, lots of it.