$8 a Chisel? YEAH RIGHT!
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2021
- Schaaf Set I purchased: amzn.to/3vaDvuH
Favorite V-Tool: amzn.to/2RJ5vbf
Narex Chisel Video: • Affordable Carving Chi...
The Schaaf Chisels keep getting recommended to me. and at the price of around $8 each I was very skeptical. These are affordable Carving chisels for woodworking.
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Schaaf Set I purchased: amzn.to/3vaDvuH
Favorite V-Tool: amzn.to/2RJ5vbf
Narex Chisel Video: ruclips.net/video/dK9pqob1wMM/видео.html
Hi, I checked your link for V-tool and it takes me to "6mm #13 Sweep V-Parting Tool" and one you show in the video is D12/6. Seems to me that is a different sweep (60° angle vs 90° angle).
I'm commenting before watching to prevent bias and compare after watching 🙂
I bought the Schaaf set for my 11yo stepson for Christmas last year. They all needed work straight from the box, and the curved spoon shaped one was twisted and needed to be torched and straightened to make work. But, that was actually perfect for teaching him all about edge geometry and metallurgy, so I'm not complaining at all. Especially since once we got them to proper "spec", they worked great. They hold an edge okay-ish, but sharpen fast and leave a mirror finish on the wood when straight from the strop. The handles could be a bit improved on, but that's just part of the fun!
Overall, I'd say it's well worth it if you enjoy and know how to true up your tools, which in my opinion should be all of us to at least some extent, and great for the beginner who REALLY wants to dive right down that woodworking rabbit hole
Edit: after watching it, sounds like we're on the same page more or less, lol. But, looks like your v tool was much less lopsided than ours, and the bigger spoon gouge that you didn't show was the twisted one. A few minutes for each of them on the stones made a night/day difference.
Thanks for this. I've had this set in my wish list for a year or so. I don't do much carving and these would end up sitting unused most of the time. But every so often I need a gouge to make some nice interior curves in tight places.
Thanks for another excellent video. I bought my first set about three years ago to add to my collection of "high-end" carving tools.. Because of my experience restoring and using previously owned and antique tools I always "commission" tools to my personal preference before using them and these were no exception. After taking the time to shape them a little and sharpen them as I would any of my tools, mine performed as well as any of the "high-end" brands. Pfeil, Ashley Iles, Henry Taylor, Two Cherries, and other brands each are a little different from each other and folks will favor different brands based on individual preferences. I was so impressed with my Schaaf set that I now have several sets including the seven piece set and the four piece fishtail sets, all of which offer additional profiles. My Schaaf tools were not always as ready to go "out-of-the-box" as some of my new "high-end" tools, but, after a minimum of work, they worked as well or better as any I own. The difference in price more than made up for the little addition preparation. As to your comments on edge retention, I have found that many new edged tools improve as the edge is worked back into the base metal over time. I have seen this improvement in brand name bench chisels and wonder if that might be the case with your set of carving tools. I have not noticed the issue with my Schaaf tools, There are other reviews online that have been done by various professional carvers and I encourage anyone considering purchasing these tools to check them out.
I bought that set for about $72.00 a little over a year ago from Amazon. I noticed that there were a couple sellers for the exact same tools (only the branding was changed). I expected to get sub-par tools for that price but was surprised. While the steel is most important for these types of tools, the finish work in the manufacturing process can make or break a tool right out of the box. These required a Lot of finish work on my part to get them to cut properly but for the price I couldn’t really complain. I read a lot of reviews on them and noticed two types . One type of review listed all of the reasons why the purchaser was unhappy and that boiled down to the fact that the tool wasn’t MAGICALLY SHARP right from the box and therefore was JUNK. Those were idiots that expected not to do anything for themselves. Then there were folks who were capable of doing things for themselves and noted that “while they were decent steel tools, you must sharpen to your expected level of keenness. The durability of the edge was also mentioned and as you have stated; “the edge retention varies.” I found that there was an additional problem of having to remove grind lines on the concave surface of the gouges and THAT took a while to remove to my level of approval.
Conclusion:
They are a good value for the money if you are not completely dependent upon others to do the tool maintenance for you.
If you expect Magical Unicorns for a budget price then these aren’t for you. Thanks for doing this review and being honest about them.
I got a set of these and I really like them . I got them directly from Schaaf and paid a few bucks more to have them “fully” sharpened. They arrived extremely sharp. All of them.
My wife got these for me for x-mass I like them but it was cool to see an honest pro review...thanks
I have that exact set. I assumed I would need to sharpen them when I got them. I'm perfectly happy with them.
Good thoughts. Consistency/quality control is for sure one of the things that you miss out on with the super cheap stuff. Makes sense of course. Thanks for looking at them :)
Thanks, James, for doing this review. I meant to ask you about those on our last hangout. I got those a few months ago, but haven’t had a chance to play around with them yet.
Steven, I had looked for this video as you mentioned it on Instagram. Just saw it. Thanks for your critique and advice.
Fantastic testing and review, James! 😃
Thanks a lot!!!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I’ve had my set for over a year, use them almost every day. Very happy with them. If you know how to sharpen them, they will give you good service.
Glad you're liking them, Stephen!
The light in your shop is really well done. Please share your setup. I really enjoy the work and way you present your information.
here you go. I should be doing a video in 3 or 4 months on shop lighting as I am setting up the new shop.
After years of getting by with not great gouges I found a big box of Swiss Made gouges- maybe 15. They still had prices tags on them and the factory edge. I paid 30$ for the entire box
Wow!
Wow !! I wish I had your workshop
I bought a shaaf set. Very nice after honing!!!
I was lucky enough to be given a set of henry taylor carving tools it was a present from my tutor for me when I finished my joinery course at college which saved me a broken wallet it got me doing a lot and they're really good I highly recommend Henry Taylor tools from there I bought other chisels I fancy like a larger v tool for large carvings and a spoon gouge from pfeil. But depending what you do you really don't need much just a v tool, a simple gouge and a smaller gouge if you make bowls you can get a spoon gouge
I bought a set of schaaf, and they arent bad for the price. steel is pretty good for the cost. they will def take work to get a good edge, and some handles arent set right, but an email sent, and they immediately sent me new ones. my two cherry set at 400 has almost the same edge issues at about 4 times the price.
‘Shaf’ it’s like shaft without a t, or at least that’s how I was told it was pronounced, and those narex at $10 are better than the $30 set at Hobby Lobby
Yes that's how. Schaafheim is a german city
Schaaf is the Dutch word for plane, so that was a bit confusing haha
I LOVE my PFEIL carvers got them a couple years ago, get used now n then! Bogs Dollocks. TFS, GB :)
I have these and did a review on my channel a few years ago on them. I found the same things as you did. Fit and finish need some work and they did come rather dull. But for a beginner set, they'll work fine. The hardness on them seems to be hit or miss as well, some hold an edge incredibly well, others it seems, I need to strop constantly. The other thing I noticed was that some of them had a really high edge angle that make them a little hard to use , I like a little bit of a lower edge profile angle, so I've had to re-profile a couple of them for my own liking. Other than that, as a beginner set, they are probably the best out there.
The harder it is to pronounce the name, the better it must be!
So... All German stuff you mean
@@user-mr1go4em7n, Dutch in this case.
@@baddoopey 21st 21st tt5
Schaaf, Dutch word for shaving (of wood) like every handplane is called a schaaf
S gutteral g aaf, schaaf :)
Waiting for my Schaafs to arrive. Good advice about the V tool - I will take it and buy a Pfiel. Would you recommend a size for "general" work. I got the Schaaf becuase the artisan carver (real deal) Alexander Grabovetskiy recommended them to his students - as an affordable set to get into carving. I like NAREX and LUBAN too. I have subbed to this channel. Cheers mate from Aus.
Thanks for this. I'm still not sure, but it sounds like buying these wouldn't be a big mistake. Also, some reviews on Amazon suggest Schaaf are good about replacing one or another that aren't up to par. I generally don't want to do a company's QC for them, but the right price can make it worth it. The biggest appeal to a set seems like a way to figure out what sizes and shapes I might actually use. Lee Valley offers so good-looking sets for ~$300, but what if I only actually use half of them?
I got the same set a couple of Xmases ago. I haven't spent as much time carving at the bench as I would have liked, so take my opinions accordingly.
I have liked the set, having nothing other than Flexcut palm tools for comparison. I do have a few minor complaints: The labels rub off eventually and the finish makes it hard to relabel them, even with a sharpie. I wish the tool roll were just a bit wider, they like up a bit too far into the cover flaps (which probably wouldn't be necessary if the roll were wide enough). I haven't had a ton of luck with that spoon gouge; it feels almost like the bevel is shaped wrong somehow; I've always chocked it up to not quite knowing what to expect but maybe I should spend more time shaping it. The wide bent gouge is a workhorse though; I carved most of a large bowl with mine.
As a beginner, the problem with not buying a set is that unless you're following a particular tutorial that clearly specifies which tool to use, you have not idea which size and shape you need, so you need to have a variety to play around with and see what fits. Dropping $30*n to get one or several that _might_ work is a tough sell.
Schaaf claims to have a lifetime quality guarantee, so if you're finding that edge retention isn't what it should be, then you should get it replaced (and tell us how it goes...).
We've replaced many a tool for customers over the years. Also, we are starting to laser print the labels moving forward to avoid the "rub off" issue :)
I am also curious to try the Schaaf chisels. The problem is that they are not delivered to Europe. Amazon also doesn't ship to Europe and I'll keep wishing unless someone brings it to me from there.....:(
Good Video! As an idea, but only if you are comfortable: What about taking some of the cheapest chisels that you have in stock and re-temper them yourself. Maybe the Harbor Freight's and several other brands. Would that bring them to a more usable level? If you over heated the chisel on a grinding wheel, would you be creating a dis-tempered chisel and if so are there shots for it?
Unfortunately to get a better temper than what you would get from harbor freight you would have to have a computer controlled furnace to be able to get exact temperatures. It's not something you can just do by eye unless you've had years of experience.
I would get the pfeil 6 in your link, with a good chisel and go from there, especially if you have not invested in sharpening stones as a strop will not reprofile those carving tools, so the cost of sharpening stones must be thought about. Is there any confirmation of what steel they use, because they might be ok right now, but not sure how it will hold up. I spent roughly 150 more on pfeil for 12 hand picked, some D and some full size and as it was expensive initial cost, I believe it to be worth it in the long run, but then again I am buy once cry once type of person. I have cheap tools also and dont mind working with them, hell could probably heat up a screwdriver and turn it into a gouge if needs be. Thank for the review and keeping it honest. I almost got the two cherries or hirsch which might be the same company. If I had to do it again, I would try to find the most fishtails I could find as I do not plan to carve enough to change the radius or profile of the chisels when stroping/reshaping. If I already had the sharpening stones, and wasnt sure if I really wanted to get into carving, I would consider this set and reprofile them and save 150 bucks, if I didnt have the stones and just a strop (yours is great by the way), I would invest in the 6 V tool, probably full size, and a chisel as you stated, as good diamond stones/shapton glass are very expensive, dont even want to think about how much ive spent on those, especially when new findings are showing a 1000 grit and buffing wheel with green goo on a buffing wheel might be all that one needs. Whatever someone decides, they should get that pfeil 6 V in the link, most used hands down for outlines and more, and if you already do dovetails you might have a skew chisel, or buy a cheap/old chisel and re-grind it into a skew at 25 degrees for bevel and 22 at the slant. The best advise you gave was buy the gouges for the project you need, kinda like buying router bits hahah.
Most every time i've heard anyone talk about chisels and carving tools the rule of thumb has always been to sharpen them after buying them before using them.
For most chisels that is the case. However the best chisels on the market come fully sharpened and ready to go. These were listed as fully sharpened and therefore I wanted to test them at the word.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Thanks i think your word carries a little more weight than the other people that told me that, so i will listen to you more.
Hi James, pronounce it like the German word für sheep. Your "2 cherries" chissels come also from western Europe and are called Kirschen (German word for Cherry) in origin.
Cheers from Austria
Actually, it looks like an amazing starter set despite the variance in quality. My set that I began in the 1990s "one piece at a time, one piece a month as I could afford" is Pfeil, but that was my only option. I wish I had this set to start and replace the lower quality pieces as my skills improved.
If you're willing to sharpen your tools, we stand behind the quality of our material (and have the backing of professional carvers). We also realize there is variance, which is why we offer free replacements for any individual tools that slip through quality control :)
@@SchaafTools It is so good to see a company completely stand behind their products. I am currently waiting on my set to arrive, should be here today, so I’m quite excited about that!
I have seen, and taken note of, the warning/recommendation that if you are unwilling to sharpen the gouges, to either look elsewhere, or to purchase the hand sharpened set. Well, I am admittedly not where I want to be sharpening wise, especially when it comes to curved edges/gouges, but I am not above putting in the work myself. There are multiple reasons for this, 1) I will take a lot more pride in an edge I put on myself, 2) it is cheaper to get these vs the hand sharpened set, and 3) I will never get better at sharpening without actually doing some sharpening.
Just a couple of quick questions…what is the best way to sharpen the gouges? (or a link to a video you think explains it best?). And most importantly, how in the heck do you pronounce Schaaf?!
I have a PFEIL V-tool that seems to work well for me, although slightly different than James's. I am interested in getting skew chisel next, but there are so many sizes, what size would be the most useful for basic chip carving?
It really depends on the chip carving you want to do. there really isn't one that is better for general works and others. My usual rule of thumb is get one in the middle of the measurements and then go from there.
Does anyone have any experience and can compare Pfeil and Two Cherries with Flexcut Mallet tools? i hear about their spring steel but just wondering since I hardly ever seen in woodcarving channels other than Doug Linker (makes some great stuff) which I believe he uses softer woods..
Flex cut makes decent stuff. It's not amazing but it's pretty good. I put it ever so slightly above these.
Any experience with record power chisels? My local woodworking shop keeps them..
Sorry. I've never used those
As a beginner in the hand carving world I appreciate your insight. However I've always bought the best tool for the work and for me spending more on quality becomes priority and then as you say collect as needed. The 4 piece set (3 chisels)on amazon from PFEIL looks to be a great starter set up for the same price as the Schaaf. Are these the 3 basic chisels to begin with? Or should I buy these individually? Great videos !
If you can afford them I say definitely go with Pfile.
The first chisel you would want is a V tool. Something around 60° with about a 6 mm side. Give or take. Next. Next you would want to skew chisel. As to gouge size. It really depends on the work you want to do. You match the gouge to the cut you want to make on the shape and that can be wildly different from project to project.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo
I can never afford things but was always taught to get the best. thanks for your response.
Naming no brands, I have a set of chisels by a well known maker, middle price range. They were well recommended. Out of the bow they were definitely sharp, but - the edges of several brittle. They were OK in pine, but in hard wood they chipped. The edges were overhard. I fixed them by grinding new bevels, for some of them twice. I have a set of Sorby registered chisels that retain the indentation of a hardness test on each chisel.
This comment is pretty useless by not naming the brand bro
Bom dia onde compro um conjunto desse
Do you have a video about regular chisels? not carving ones? I just wanted to upgrade my too cheap ones.
Yes. Actually at a series last year doing in-depth testing on a bunch of different chisels.
My experience is you need to sharpen cheap steel more often, also if they cheap out on the thickness it can hurt performance to the point of being useless
In general yes. But that can be a good thing for the beginner as you have to learn to sharpen more often you learn to sharpen quicker. In the end it doesn't actually hurt the function and you can get a relatively cheap travel to do the exact same work with the exact same age of a really fine chisel. It just won't stay there as long.
weird names... says the guy with the silent W :)
Half the letter in my last name do not make a sound!
Based on your findings trying Schaaf, it seems to me the hardness must be inconsistent across the set. What do you think?
I have found them to be fairly consistent. Time is more dependant on how much material needs to be removed.
Schaaf, s then very harsh g, means plane in Dutch. Of course it does.
These are exelent gauges! , i know european sets are probably the best, BUT, if you take your time in sharpening these schaaf, whih you can read as (shafff), by now you probably know how to pronounce their name…. It is an exelent set for beginners n pros….. bottom line is the carver , n a decent sharp chisel or gauge or guvia”…..
Schaaf is the Dutch word for wood plane and also a rather common last name.
I bought the harbor freight set just because I'm just getting started using tools like this, and knew I could practice sharpening them and not worry about destroying them. They also have helped me to learn how to re edge these types of tools as the bevels are absolutely atrocious! One of the V tools, the bevel was so steep, you had to hold it almost straight up and down to get it to carve. Great tools to practice sharpening and re edging with no fear of destroying them, not so great for carving.
I think the name schaaf comes from the dutch name for a handplane
That weird feeling when somebody say chisels for $8 each one is not really worth when I am using old carving chisels made in communistic times, costs are 50 cent for one. Requires some renovation and are just ok where $8 chisels are recognized as the good one.
right on. I love a good set of antiques. there are a lot of great ones out there.
Cheap tools just aren't worth it. I'd rather just have a decent hook knife and save up for nice gouges. Nice video love your work!
E o valor?
Great review. But why would you expect them to be super sharp out of the box? I would expect any edge tool would need finish sharpening before use. Surely the edge will be damaged during shipping and handling.
I did not expect them to be sharp out of the box. But I'm comparing them to the higher class chisels that are sharp out of the box. But for the price I was expecting to have to touch them up.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo They more or less imply they need sharpening from the get go in specs.
This is a dutch word which means benchplane
You have to mine the ore and make the steel yourself to really forge a bond with your chisels. lol jk nobody has time for that. Thanks for the video!
hi
Give the to the wife
How can I order Sir
order what?
These have the typical Chinese tool issues. You get some that are good and some that are bad. Quality control just sucks on them. They've also cut corners on the steel used. They don't say exactly what it is, but they do say it has .65% carbon content, so that makes it something like a 1065. So your durability is going to be shot. It's as low carbon content as you can get and still be hardenable. I bet if you ran them through your chisel tests they'd end up on the lower end of the spectrum. Pfeil on the other hand uses a proprietary CrV steel, but it's likely closer to 1% carbon, so almost getting into the ultra-high carbon steels. Their QC is also exceptional. At the same time, 8 bucks vs 40 bucks is a big difference. Basically, Schaaf is a beginner set that will work, but it's not even in the same arena as Pfeil. If I were a professional carver, I wouldn't even look at them. At the same time though, if you're someone that wants to put some wheat on a saw handle or carve your initials on a box, they might be a good buy for the money. 100 bucks for 12 functional carving tools is a hard deal to pass up.
How about a giveaway??
I may end up doing a giveaway when I'm done using them for a while. Want to get a full test online and see how they hold up in the long run.
59th.
I bought the fishtail set and found it to be decent. It needed some bevel work and refinement to make them work well, but it wasn't unexpected. I then purchased the 12 pc set and that's where my negativity toward Schaaf started. When I bought them, I had surgery coming up and thought I'd get new chisels to play with while I was recovering. The surgery happened and well, I got a good look at my chisels and even without the warnings on amazon I expected to sharpen them. What I didn't expect was that they'd need to be completely reprofiled before they could be sharpened. I had to grind off the bevel of the v-tool and start over, because it was so out of whack it couldn't be saved. Two had handles that weren't fit to the chisel and at some point I might make new handles. Most of them had bevels so steep that the chisel needed to be almost vertical in order for the cutting edge to contact the wood- essentially, if you try to carve with it, you're driving it like a nail, rather than carving. It was beyond the 30 day return period, so I pretty much gave up on them and they're sitting in my shop until I have time to fix them.. I've been carving since about 1972 when my grandfather bought me a brand new set of Miller's Falls chisels and I still have them. When anybody asks me what to get I tell them Pfeil , Stryi, Naumov and Stubai are all great and will work right out of the box in most cases, but will work better with a few seconds of sharpening. I tell them to buy 4 chisels, a flat, a shallow gouge, a v, and a narrow gouge, and that they can always add tools as their carving projects grow. If they want a set I suggest going on ebay for a vintage Miller's Falls or Brookstone set. which will cost about $40-$50 and will last a lifetime. If they need something right now, and want a set, I suggest Flexcut, which are cheap and a bit ugly (IMO), but will get you going. I can't, in good conscience give any recommendation to Schaaf. I think they could be good tools if the company cared enough to implement some quality control, but since only two of the ones in my 12 pc set had any business leaving the factory as they were, I don't think that was the case. :(
It's pronounced "Schaaf". See? What was so hard about that?😁
They make it loud and clear before you buy that these are not hand sharpened yet
. That you yourself will have to sharpem them.. Not sure how you missed that memo when you bought them..
Correct. That's why I addressed that question in the video.
Testing anything out of the box that isn't incredibly expensive is a waste of time. The question isn't about whether the manufacturer paid a flunky to put a mirror polish on the edge, the important issue is how good is the steel. Is the tang a reasonable length and girth, or will the handle come off easily?
In other words, can the tool be made to work as well as an expensive tool after it has been fine tuned?
If you buy low priced tools, you just assume that you are buying a kit. Budget priced tools are not ready to go. You have to take the time to refine the tool in the areas that the manufacturer skimped on to keep the price down.
If the buyer doesn't have the skills, or tools, needed to "finish" a brand new tool, he will have to buy very expensive tools instead.
And finally, budget tools are made in countries with low wages. Some of those countries are unfriendly to Europe, North America, and Australia. Buyers should consider if they want to save a little money on tools now, and spend more on tax money later when your country goes to war with the place who you made rich from buying their cheap products.
That is very true for most chisels. However for the higher quality chisels in the market they come ready to go out of the box. I wanted to test these initially as they were listed as being sharpened and ready to go. As we all know that is rarely the case.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo
At that price, nothing is ready to go.
At 3 times that price, I don't expect anything to be ready to go.
I don't care what they promise, their definition of ready to go is never the same as mine.
Regardless, I enjoy your videos. Thanks for the reply.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo That's not quite true! Here's what we say on the product listing: "Do not buy this set if you are not willing to sharpen your tools. These come factory ground and sharpened, much better than most of what you'll find on Amazon, however, like any gouges, will require sharpening sooner or later." We do sell a professionally pre-sharpened set on our website for the very reason you outline in your video. Anyways, thanks for the review :)
@@deezynar We certainly don't promise these to be ready to go! Here's what we say on our product listing: "Do not buy this set if you are not willing to sharpen your tools. These come factory ground and sharpened, much better than most of what you'll find on Amazon, however, like any gouges, will require sharpening sooner or later." After testing by Joe Dillett and Dick Belcher, we are confident that our steel holds up against all the big brands.