MMA vs Wing Chun
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- Опубликовано: 12 май 2019
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never forget mma got their moves from traditional matial arts
(wresteling and boxing are also traditional matial arts imho)
I love your guys work! Your explanations, real world thinking and light hearted nature is inspiring, im from Australia and prefer your videos over any physical instructor I've met
I've done combat sports, wing chun, other TMAs. This is a great video.
I really enjoy your videos. They are not only funny, but they offer tremendous insight as well. Kudos to you!
Yes, it does makes sense, really appreciate!
Outstanding analysis. What a great way to compare and contrast the two disciplines. Most practitioners would only identify the pitfalls in other systems, in an attempt to glorify their own. I truly enjoy your videos sir.
Awesome! Thanks for the input and for watching too.
Really Love your No Non Sense Videos... keep Rocking... kudos
Some good points Thanks!
Thank you Sir, i was able to pick up one trapping technique from this. Much gratitude.
For someone like myself thinking of taking up Wing Chun, this is one of the most informative videos I've ever watched on the style! Thanks!
What WC lineage do you guys follow?
CEWIIH Ip Man (Ip Ching/Ip Chun via Sam Kwok) lineage through Sifu Tony Massengill’s Efficient Warrior Wing Chun. Thanks for watching. We’ll have some more training videos and options up soon, so stay tuned! 😎
I’d like to see your points illustrated against an uncooperative attacker..in other words pull off your wing chun in sparring with someone trying to hit you not feeding you..
In sparring you have competent martial artists as oponents. On the street you sometimes also fight people with no martial arts background. They often do foreward leaned foot work or are drunk. Some stuff will work great against them but will fail against trained fighters. For those you should use Wing Chun in the way Qi La La does.
Great point sir. The bouncing footwork in boxing is great for conditioning and as an active rest when your out of range. When your in the pocket you want to be in your stance while still mobile. I honestly think you guys are great with your wing chun not only because Wong shun Leung understood the reality of combat like distance speed power and timing but you guys really understand boxing and other combat sports who train for one purpose.... to win. Thank you for the video I appreciate you
Not enough is said about wing chun footwork literally anywhere on the net. I like your term "wing chun zombie" because it's like they just move straight and forward, and think any movement to avoid a punch is somehow betraying the system.
Exactly! It’s like some people think that evasiveness is a sin. Lol.
Thanks for watching and for the great input. 🙏
great talk
Context for the framework of the fight (the rules, and other boundaries) matters :)
Always boils down to same thing with wing chun, "I'll strike you to eyes or groin, it's too dangerous for combat sport" do you really think a trained fighter is incapable of fighting without rules? I've never sparred a wing chun man who could defend even a simple takedown. Wing chun has good techniques but you must cross train and you must spar.
you seem gay to me. i'm sure you'll say you're not, and that's ok if you're deeply closeted, but you seem very gay.
Best martial art channel continue my friend best of luck
Good points!
sifu could u talk more about wing chun footwork how to apply in reality
Ahmed great idea. We’ll look to add that soon.
Is not the martial art. Is for the martial artist (or fighter)... We can't comparate martial arts. All martial arts were created for defense and atack. But the true spririt of the martial arts is be better all days, for yourself. Not for trophys, not for ego. Train, enjoy and help your martial arts family.
That conception is a bit ummm wrong. You cant cook eggs that well when using an auto parts manual. Yes the judgement element is a huge factor, but you're basically saying that a KIAI Fighter loses because he's a bad fighter when in fact he uses a useless fighting style. Another example is using fencing for a boxing match. Same thing applies to Wing Chun. If you are using Wing Chun vs a WWE Wrestler then you will lose not because you suck at wing chun, but because Wing Chun is not designed to fight a dinosaur; whereas, BJJ offers a better recipe for joint locking rather than trying to control a 2.2 meter, 120kg guy with Bong Sao deflections.
I'm saying this as a Boxer/wrestler that uses Wing Chun Chi Sao concepts for grapple control. If I'm in close then Wing Chun becomes perfect for doing standing submissions or resort to wrestling. At short distance boxing. I'm not a kicker so I get in close as fast as possible. Really hard to eye poke and groin hit if your controlled at the arms with no kicking range except knee hits. Thats just my two cents.
Very Interesting👍👍👍
Looks more like Jeet Kune Do.
I wouldn't have said better! It's an awesome video!!
I saw a boxer actually beat two guys without problems. They started running from him!
Thanks from Texas.
Well said
Good video. You forgot the number 1 reason MMA is superior in general to WC is training at full speed full force. I think it's easy for an MMA guy to use his delivery system and change his targeting for the street( Jab to the eyes instead of the nose, kick to the groin instead of the inside of the thigh etc..) Do you guys train your delivery system under full contact conditions? I'm especially interested in seeing how you could train facing not facing against full power boxing. I was thinking of a drill where there is an aggressor and a WC self defender. The aggressor stands just outside the kill zone and when a whistle is blown, they step in and can throw full contact shots to the chest or hooks to the upper arms and the WC man needs to smother get the throat and drive back the aggressor applying facing not facing principle. Anyway just an idea, a way to train the delivery system at full force reasonably safely. I wish you guys had a school in New Zealand, I am really enjoying your Videos.
Also wing chun and any so called traditional martial artist trains for the unknown ie you can't know that stats of the person you're fighting in the street, what style /styles they may be trained in or there skill level etc.
You missed the biggest factor...mma trained fighters no what it's like to get hit as where the vast majority of traditional martial artist never get hit full on
To true!
MMA fighters don't train to get stabbed by a knife or scratched with a broken bottle or get hit with a pencil in the eye.
Many trad arts and some wing chun schools yeah.
In our school you will need to learn how to take some beating for sure.
Quite sure Sifu Jason will dish out some pain as well when you get to a certain level
Wearing gloves and fighting with rules is nit training for the real world bruh. Training for the street and real life scenarios is much more realistic.
Good points! :)
Those are good observations. I'd also point out the obvious: generally speaking, most of the MMA guys I know and have worked with are training for sport competition. They're expecting combat with somebody else in a ring environment. That's not to say MMA doesn't have a street component (of course it does), but as you implied it's expecting a "fair fight" within the system. Kung fu (and other traditional martial arts), when they are PROPERLY practiced, are not preparing for the "fair fight," as you illustrated with your knife example.
J. Dean great input. Thanks for watching.
MMA also trains to fight other trained fighters, WC trains to fight non trained fighter or other WC fighters.
@@cuzz63 and remember all the eye pokes and groin strikes wing chung can do, all the mma fighters can do it also and in dominant position. Who said mma fighters cant fight dirty ??
cuzz63 WC is a system, when learned and applied properly, can be used against all styles of fighting. But a lot of wing Chun masters supplement their wing Chun with a combat system like Thai boxing. No style is perfect in every scenario but it’s a reach to say WC isn’t applicable against other systems
@@ayubipesante8778 , the only way it works against trained fighters is to train it with a true combat system , this isnt th 1960's, even Bruce Lee after his first fight realized that Wing Chun comes up short.
I think your points were very good and at least better balanced than the typical MMA critic. I agree with all that.
Ray VR cool. Thanks for watching.
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I agree both mma sytle of muai thai and bjj and wing chun have there places and times. Adapting to the fight is needed.
He should write a book
i love the way it is broken down. i would also mention this fact: traditional karate, taekwondo, muay thai, kung fu, etc. has sliding footwork rather than skipping/stepping footwork. and it's there for a reason lol
Tony Ferguson and Silva use wing Chun in MMA in their fights
Mma is about using whatever works. It doesn't do any good to analyze it that way. If you see a technique that is very much like wing chun, it doesn't mean that fighter studied wing chun. When you do a lot of fighting you end up with certain punches and kicks that are effective for the way you fight. Don't get all excited that karate is great because a guy wins an mma fight with a karate kick. He might not know what you are talking about. He might say that it was a kick he did off balance and is not his usual kick. It's about survival, and winning, not worrying about strict technique with names.
dion smo....No they use MMA in their MMA-Fights....There is one, only one fight, where Silva used wing chun...and? It didnt work...of course...
Context is always king.
Great points. Thanks. I wishbi found this 4 years ago. Lol
I definitely agree with you about the being in shape art MMA fighters are just Fighters but they are in great shape and they train for exactly that fight you can't be out of shape and be a so-called fighter it just does not mix even Bruce Lee said it if you're going to be a fighter or get into a fight where you know what's going to happen you better train every part of your body you didn't say sit on the couch he said train every parts that means weights your craft like whatever style you are doing running cardio Kata whatever you know
I like your content. Anyone who regularly spars can beat anyone who
doesn't.
I know I am late to the dance on this so I apologise. I think you make very good valid points. However I found that generally MMA practitioners are more prepared for a street fight than Wing Chun people are. that is not a blanket statement for everyone. But I find MMA people have the attributes necessary to defend themselves in a real life confrontation. Even with weapons. I've seen quite a few MMA people even pure Brazilian jiu-jitsu people very successfully defend themselves against weapons in a street fight. I have seen very few Wing Chun people be prepared for something simple as a tackle or just someone who is it an aggressive puncher that changes levels. overall though I agree conceptually with a lot of what you say in the video.
To me it comes down to what you really want to do, for instance tactically in real life I enjoy standing grappling with some ground but most grappling resolves while standing, I enjoy that you can use that and wing Chun as well in real life easier because the ground might be instant death and standing grappling is good tactically and against weapons. You can still use some of that in MMA. I prefer straight kicks to round kicks except when retreating it if they use sport style blocks and their stomach is open ... Or just because, but I like straight kicks better almost all the time. There's no reason wing chun doesn't work for MMA when used in other styles from Bruce Lee to modern MMA you can see it does fine.
The issue there is potentially a grounded target will encounter ground fighting in MMA and I love BJJ fine but in real life a grounded target will experience being drug away and stabbed to death, shot or chairs and boots, rocks and bricks.
It's really hard to block projectiles I can't do it can you? I hear some people can but I JUST can't every projectile fired at me hits true every time.
Wing Chun is not about looking like the form but carrying attributes abd concepts that flow like water.
That's why Bruce Lee was not far off.
Bruce Lee just expounded on the open footwork and I'm sure that would have been fine but he was so popular there are haters.
I'm middle aged so Bruce Lee was the icon of martial arts when I started training martial arts and by the time I was finishing my training I had learned BJJ.
I use aikido lovingly with small circle jiu jitsu and cqc and love it, I link wrestling to it creatively ... I use wing Chun and Shaolin and some Jeet kun do as well I only use the icons from Jeet kun do but i have two non telegraphed punches one from boxing and the other is Bruce Lee's punch verbatim.
I don't like Thai I like the strategies and concepts but I just use Kung Fu with boxing, like I am from the USA and grew up in the 80s and 90s. Thai is it's own style I will legitimately use Kung Fu in hard over powered Street fights and dangerous situations like Shaolin wing Chun and a couple Staples from Jeet kun do, just the Staples ... Like the fencing style vertical punch and long range s style snake punch ... Everyone should use close range angled attacks and I'm not sure if the turning centerline punch uppercut is Jeet kun do or wing Chun. I honestly don't know but people loved that more than ice cream in the summer then, it's a good one ... But I also do regular boxing and complex Shaolin as well as close contact and also ranged wing Chun with obviously a bridge but I am fine at range.
I prefer to LEARN wing Chun but it COMES OUT sort of jkd ... I use the edge strikes long range in both kicks and punches too so there's a lot of edge blocking and straight lines.
I tend to not punch as hard as I can all the time because I think it's going to do damage either way but in a fight I DO NOT turn my shoulders off unless there's some foreseeable problem that I'm running into and eventually I turn them on either way.
I am good with the vertical punch bit I'm also equally good with Shaolin and American boxing and it's really rare for someone to say they use Shaolin in fights but I definitely do, I might be using Shaolin and boxing at the same time or with wing Chun then into wrestling and aikido then BJJ a lot of times I'm using one then the other or two at once. It's not because I'm good I might be using a for instance Shaolin defense to American boxing then be using jkd offense after wing Chun defense etc. My body acts independent it doesn't stay in a form because I started in Shaolin and that's how most Shaolin guys are just learning tools and using them together but I really love wing Chun and the ways it adapts Shaolin and jkd and boxing etc.
I thought that was normal and people just needed help to use that fighting.
If be calling for help in a fight real quick that was drag out ... I can't take damage it doesn't hurt me but I just can't. Not forever.
I'm not Superman ... But I know enough to know how much escape plan I need as well as offense ...
I feel great until things go wrong like everyone. Punches don't hurt me I don't feel them but I eventually drop like everyone I'm not Superman I just am tactical you can't be tactical at some point and that's when it's no longer for me. At all. I'm not there to just fire back and forth like stupid people I will die whether I feel it or not like everyone and run and call for help etc. That's not what happens. But I know that ahead of time - tactics or nothing. I'm not there to be a tough guy, I've taken a lot of too much already.
7:56 this is why a Navy SEAL type wood forego head control for wrist control and an under arm. That way you have both arms in case of a weapon and in this situation you often do need to take them to the ground and isolate the weapon. That's how soldiers have fought for thousands of years any Jeet Kune Do practitioner should also be able to wrestle
At my Wing Shun school we have no trophies, no medals, no egos (you'll do burpies). WE LEARN HOW TO DESTROY. We also have a weekly boot camp that focuses on fitness.
BUT.... Can you really destroy? Any prove of effectiveness of your school disciples?
Dude, “sport” fighters do a hell of lot of “destroying” as they train in tactics that’s applicable on a day to day basis, practicing phantom techniques does nothing in a real dynamic fight as you’ve never applied it.
Haha sure, jokers. Keep that mentality. It's better Wing Chun is kept exclusive.
@Tyson Durr🤖💩💃🕺💃🕺💃🕺
THAT'S WHAT BRUCE WAS ADVOCATING YEARS AGO. HE WAS WAY AHEAD OF HIS TIME.
make video about wing chun biu ji
10:31 they also wear a cup in MMA. No cup in the street either
pls make chum kiu part 2 and 3 soon. and then pls do biu jee form.
SRIJAN SINHA 👍. They’re on their way. Thanks for watching.
@@JKDandWingChun thanks
On paper Wing Chun has no rules, but in practice I would guess it's a different story. Wing Chun people might say, for instance, that MMA rules wouldn't allow them to use some of their most effective & dangerous techniques like finger-jabs to the eyes & kicks to the groin, but I would ask in what Wing Chun school do practitioners actually poke each other in the eyes & kick one another with everything they've got in the groin? Spoken or not any successful school's "rules" won't allow that simply because the teacher wants to keep students (and avoid lawsuits)! I would guess that the average MMA contestant has actually experienced being poked in the eyes, kicked in the groin, & kicked in the knees much more often than the average Wing Chun student & is therefore better prepared to cope with those kind of attacks.Also, MMA fighters will have the huge advantage in any fighting situation of actually regularly experiencing hitting & getting hit, taking down & being taken down, etc., as opposed to the controlled (non?) contact "fighting" the average traditional martial arts student becomes accustomed to in training; which approach prepares you better for someone really out to hurt you?
When sparing in wing chun wear safty glasses. No, but learning to use fingers as darts requires lose arms and snapping out like a dart very fast, at increadable speed, too fast to defend against. So targeting eyes is done on targets not on people. I hit maybe say my jeans hanging up on back of the bedroom door and aim the darting fingers towards a small rivit. Or sometime quickly poke at a bottom eyelet hole or the agents face in picture on a swinging realestate sign as I pass by them. Mostly to learn to move with speed using loseness, and to practice aiming. I practice targeting anything even when riding past things on my bike rides.
You need different ranges
its so true i seen a mma fighter get pork in the eye and he had to stope fighteing for a min.
Mma is better if it includes Wing Chun but jkd is basically that anyway
Agreed, except for the fact that although many try to say that bruce lee and his philosophy of jkd is the father of mma, I'd disagree with that because mma for the most part emphasizes muay thai, bjj, and wrestling. Jkd may incorporate some techniques from theses systems, but it's not centered on these as much as mma is. That's the issue I have with that.
Javier Fernandez I'd say the concept of using anything that works from any martial art is itself a mixed martial art, but yes it is more specific. But I see your point, I still think it's at least a distant grandfather because its the first modern mixed system (that I know of)
@@java8381 Anyone that says Bruce is the father of MMA doesnt know the history of MMA.
Well let’s put it this way when I do boxing I mixed wing Chun in it And it works really good
Hold on, the Gracie's stated that they took Lee's concepts of fighting ranges and using what works made their bjj and started the mma fights to test and prove. That's one reason people say he's the grandfather. But guys using what works from any martial art is mixing martial arts and he was doing that in the 60's pre mma
good idea for wing chun in ufc or mma, origin footwoork wingchun have problem with MMA ?
At the most basic level of footwork, let's look at the stance. Wing Chun's stance emphasizes on staying grounded on the heels, so when you receive an incoming force, the structure and positioning you should have trained can deal with that force.
This type of stance is good at establishing a strong connection between you and the Earth, the force can be transmitted down to your feet and to the ground. In the octagon, pads on the floor are a few inches thick. If you have ever stood on a padded floor with your balance focused on your heels and have someone push you, it's hard to stay balanced without toppling backwards due to a weaker connection to the floor.
This is why, MMA favors fighters that have their weight shifted to the balls of their feet, so they wouldn't topple over as easily.
I don't do MMA, I practice Wing Chun, please correct me if I am wrong.
@@screamtheguy6425 i like stad of you but standing origin wiingchun block,it lose in MMA
Jon Jones and Anderson Silva are prime example of people who use Wing Chun in their tool boxes
@@llDeezNutsll They are not.
@@llDeezNutsll disagreed
wrestling is a major factor in real fighting. mma is not a style its training all kind of ranges where the fight could go or you want it to go. wing chun is one distance and i believe in that distance against a trained boxer, muay thai or wrestler how also got that distance in their art, wing chun is the weakers. you can do one pak sao but that pak sao is also in the other arts only with better follow ups. Just be real, if you watch an mma fight you can not say that is sport way of fighting and wing chun is the street....thats soo not true.
There are different questions. The main one for most people is which art will benefit them the most for their lives. If they are ordinary people who do not walk down dark lane ways late at night and don't look for trouble OR are they fighters who want to be able to defeat anyone, anywhere. The first guy will be better with whichever system he enjoys because any one of them, except maybe pure aikido will benefit them in that one fight they might have. The fighter wanting to be able to beat anyone is better to train mma because mma trains to be able to beat anyone. So it seems that if the choice is mma or wing chun then mma wins, as long as you plan to actually train and not just want to learn 5 punches, 5 kicks and some grappling basics like chokes and choke défenses. Wing chun, if trained deeply for 3 years or more can make you a killer, ONLY if you have the right teacher who is not stuck to pure anything and trains students according to what will serve them best. I would advise mma for the majority of people who want to learn to fight. Learning to fight seems to be the smart reason to take up martial arts. Anything else that comes as a bonus; great. But don't do it to relax. There are other things better suited for relaxation, if that's all you want.
Martial Arts beat Mixed Martial Arts
lol
Two entirely different things all together, apples and oranges if you compare WC and MMA.
MMA guys think it's the best thing for every situation to copy what they see on TV or you tube and get all butt hurt and reply in a smart ass way when someone gives an intelligent real world experience answer about real martial arts and real world self-defense from experience I get a lot of stupid replies when I post something MMA is a great and entertaining sport but life doesn't happen in an octagon now before the cry babies come out I'm not saying those guys can't fight it's obvious they can but martial arts and SELF-DEFENSE is not a fixed sport and if you think it isn't fixed and setup with all the silly stare downs and trash talk you must not be aware of professional wrestling
So the point: Know your goal, but how could you? It's our job as teachers, coaches, and instructors to guide, teach, and help you figure that out. Sadly we failed. We were too invested in what we believed. Our reality. If you want real, true self-defense training shoot me an email. If you want regular party line train w/ this guy. He knows Wing Chung & Jeet Kune Do.
PAUL VUNAK CAME UP WITH FILTHY MMA👍👍👍👍👍
Everyone says " on the street there are no rules!" But that's not really true you still have rule of law and if you break it your going to jail. In MMA if you break a rule you might lose a point or at best get disqualified and even still there are things you can do in MMA that you would get thrown in jail for for doing it on the street. One example of this is the ground and pound perfectly legal in MMA on the street it's attempted murder doesn't matter if he started it off he's on the ground and you have the time to punch him repeatedly you have the time to run and you are legally required to do so. It how about eye gouges that's aggravated assault you'll go to jail for that one too unless he had a gun. Their are other reasons MMA isn't representative of self defense but this one isn't a good argument.
Warning: do not poke the bears!
And no thing. Of pure mma
Most systems are in incomplete, mixing striking/grappling systems rounds out and helps complete your fighting, Wing Chun is incomplete, Jiu-Jitsu is incomplete. The best is a form of mixed martial arts edited for street, laws and context, basically jkd
Khabib and micropuss fought just 4 to 5 months ago not two years ago 😅
It’s the whole idea that wing chun was based on a woman that somehow it’s a soft “style” makes people think that you can be lazy. No. The idea the strategy is being quick and using angles. Also, in the mma arena you can’t eye jab, scratch, pull hair, break a neck, so….there’s that.
So ur telling me wc without all the things you mentioned can't be used
.. well alright then useless it is
What is wrong living in parents basemant 😫😞
All of our techniques are banned for starters. Second of all. Wing Chun is a maiming art. That said. We hit the eyes 👀 and throat. The mma guy has rounds, he rests. Somebody will stop when you tap cuz there’s a referee. But on the street? It doesn’t work as well. Wing chun on the other hand. Will work on any hand to hand combat that doesn’t have rules?
Butter bean🤣🤣
Actually it makes me laugh to categorised mma has a form of art beacause its mixed you can have wing chung and Boxing combined bang it become mma the way he explained mma is based on the current meta state of mma and its rules because the basic of mma is to pratice multiple arts and combining them or adapting your style vs your opponent so if you use mma in a street fight you will not follow the same rules has in the cage in wich case has lots of rules preventing you from dealing certain blow and twisting certain articulation so.. Bad way to compare...
First you have know why you are learning martial arts. On what purpose. All martial arts are good. It is all depending on the practitioner.
3:18 ㊙️SON TSI OFFICIAL: “I agree that staying in shape is just generally good for anybody. But when it comes to fights. Think about it? If I’m in peak physical condition. And now I get into a street beef? The guy I’m fighting is out of shape? But he can land a whopper punch, CUZ HE KNOWS HOW TO FIGHT? See my point? Being in shape isn’t everything. I do think it helps if you’re going to be in a long night situation? But if you’re effective? No need for extremes. Lastly, wing chun and jkd both have finger jabbing. So our main tool is banned. The finger strikes set up the punches n kicks. We hit the throat. So these techniques are needed if we’re gonna make a determination on what’s effective. In my opinion. A guy who’s great at chi sao we just use a football tackle or hockey check. 💯🤛
7:40 If I poke a guy in the eye in MMA. He gets a break. (NOT ON THE STREET) 2. If I’m winning nobody’s gonna break it up n tell us to take a break. (WONT HAPPEN ON THE STREET) 3. Get somebody in a nice submission hold. (HE CAN TAP THEN YOU LET GO N HE ATTACKS AGAIN) 4. Get him in a submission hold? (HE PULLS A KNIFE) see my point? Oh ya and 5. KICKED IN THE NUTS? (In mma you get a break) on the street you get no break
Yeah most of the time when people take breaks from eye pokes and ground shots it's because they're tired and just want a break. Between the cups and the adrenaline it's rare it's hard enough to actually feel it. Even eye pokes it's very rare it's hard enough to actually make a difference m if they knew they wouldn't get a break, they'd keep going, and I guarantee you they've got more practice fighting through that kinda thing than a martial art with little to no sparring
@@mr.orangeaide5260 ya, probably. Good points by the way. 😊I concur.
MMA No need to watch any further. Like science it works.
WC = dirty street fighting style. MMA = well-rounded sport fighting style.
WC proven time and time again that is not working, MMA is mixed martrial art so this is not one style. And you have selfdefence MMA style gyms ;)
@@swietoslawI do both WC and MMA. WC doesn't work in the ring when being practiced by idiots and beginners. But when practiced competently, it enhances MMA. This has been shown many times.
@@swietoslaw MMA can certainly work well for self-defense, but again, you can easily get stabbed in a clinch or get kicked in the head while grappling. WC is about eye pokes, joint, throat, and groin strikes, etc. And when used aggressively can be devastating in close range combat.
@@alouiciousjackson5812 Sorry how WC proven that is work?
@@alouiciousjackson5812 If you think any system will make you safe against knife attack then you wrong, if you are attacked with a knife in 90% dude with knife will win.
And about eye poke groin strikes, from what I know no WC train that in comparison Kraw maga train a lot groin strike and dirty fighting, also it have basic grappling and its made to be easy to learn.
And btw anybody can train dirty fighting but MMA style training will teach you effective how to thrown and take punches kicks and grapple
Respectively, the only way to see if something works is to test it otherwise it remains a theory. Combat sports have been proven over and over that it works under pressure against resisting opponents. With respect to wing chung it has to be proven over and over it works against a resisting opponent not an opponent who is being compliant. The only way to see if eye pokes and groin strikes will work is to test it, and remember it works both ways your opponent can eye poke and groin strike you. Eye pokes and groin strikes do hurt but how successful will u be in hitting a moving target and remember he could do it to u also and also strike the eyes and groin when he is in dominant position. We could debate all day about this but will not any sense until it has been proven and tested, there are many fighters out their that will fight with eye pokes and groin strikes being allowed. You either practice martial arts in theory or you practice knowing your art has been proven over and over under pressure and resistance. Testing is the only bonafide way to see if something works not in static but in real resistance. Just as a side note look at rokus the akido black belt who wanted to test his akido and he did and it failed under pressure and resistance, so what he did after that was start training combat sports and now he is a different person. When someone puts themselves on the line like that i have nothing but respect for that person, and you could watch his full transformation on you tube , everybody knows who he is. Respectively , testing your art against someone who is applying the same tactics as you is the only surefire way to see if your art works.
But in a survival situation, you fight as you train so because of the hundreds of hours of training a Boxers instinctive reaction is to punch, a bjj guy to take you to the floor and a wing chun guy to strike the eyes, throat groin etc. You won't have much time to think about it its mostly muscle memory and instinctive reactions. Maybe I'm not an expert, but have done a bit of wing chun but am considering bjj and muay thai.
@@rhodrimorice7746 resoectively rhodri, skill is only developed by training with resistance not static training, timing only comes when u train in resistance for example boxers spar to get the timing, freestyle wrestlers spar to get the timing for take downs, bjj players roll to get the timing for sweeps and submissions, judo players do randori to get timing for throws and take downs. Do u see whats happening with all these combat sports? The key is the sparring with live resistance to get the timing, how can u train eye pokes and groin strikes unless u spar and get the timing down ? I have friends who train with eye pokes and groin strikes in their martial arts and they train in static, as soon as they start training with some one who gives them resistance their timing is way off, and then what happens is they either get clocked in the face , clinched or taken down. And the person doing this winds up in dominant position and could eye poke and groin strike them , the tables get turned on them. I see this over and over thats why i say it has to b tested against a resistng opponent who could use the same tactics on you while securing dominant position against u. Am a division 1 wrestler, i trained a long time ago at the university of iowa with lengedary coach dan gable and am also a bjj bb, this is how i know how hard it is to take a person down with resistance and to secure a submission against a person resisting. You could research the timing issue by talking with some one who teaches boxing or wrestling coach or muy thai instructor, timing only comes from sparring with resistance. Muscle memory is good but not when u train it in static.
@@rhodrimorice7746 and by the way muy thai and bjj are great arts to train in sprinkled with a little wrestling. Look at the muy thai fighters, do u think they could do what they do only by muscle memory ? Hell no they spar to get timing, research for yourself and dont let anyone fool you ☺
@@raymondramallo601 Thanks, as I said, I am no expert and have only done a bit of wing chun. I do feel wing chun is missing sparring against live opponents, and there is a muay thai and bjj schools near me so was thinking of giving them a try. I don't want to fight competitively but want a truly effective martial art for self defense and enjoyment. I don't see the point in training a martial art unless it's effective (might as well do another sport!). One concern I have with muay thai is damaging the best self defence Wepon we have by full contact ... The brain! I am not afraid of getting hit as I used to play rugby, but as you get older you have to think of these things! What's your thoughts on this? Thanks
Good post, people dont realize the Wing Chun guys cant realistically train those techniques on resisting opponents.
The problem with saying WC is better because of no rules is the assumption that only WC can fight with no rules, take out the rules and the MMA fighter can also use those dirty techniques, its not a one sided fight. Jon Jones eye pokes work because the other fighter isnt allowed to retaliate, not that JJ needs to gain an advantage by cheating. Watch enough youtube videos of people fighting and those techniques are rarely seen and arent as effective since they cant be trained realistically under pressure.
I always wonder why if someone live in US learn hand to hand combat for self defense instead of buying gun?
swietoslaw great question. I’d say three reasons: 1. Not every threat is tactically/morally/legally equal and, therefore, may not require lethal force. 2. Even in the U.S. there are plenty of places where one can’t bring a firearm. For example, large events like concerts and sporting events. 3. Your body is the one weapon you will always have. A gun might jam, run out of ammo or (kind of point #1) the environment you’re in is horrible for gun use due to bystanders and risk to non-combatants.
Anyway, like I said, great question, so I thought I’d answer. That’s actually not a bad video topic, now that I think of it. 🤔
A.smart, well informed person will train with various weapons, as well as empty hands. You never know when your firearm will have a malfunction, and jam up on you...then what are you going ro do to neutralize your attacker if you have no empty hand skills? Throw your gun at him? Pistol whip him? You have to be in close-range in order to whip him, and if he is bigger and stronger than you, he may be able to disarm that gun from your hands. I train in the Filipino Martial Art called Cabales Serrada Escrima, and we train to do all the same offensive strikes(most Filipino fighting systems have 12 offensive strikes/angles/patterns, that have been standardized, and is the core foundation of all FMA's)with the empty hands, as we do with a bolo(machete), daga(dagger/knife), or a baston(stick).
@@richc.1104 You sound like you dont know much about guns.
Firstly statistically speaking you will newer be attack even in US (which have quiet high crime).
Secondly on this super rare occasion when you need defend ourself if you have reasonable gun like glock you have minimal chance of malfunction and even presenting gun can really cool some head, no sane person without gun would attack person with a gun.
And about pistol whipping, this is object it give you more weight to strike you can hit as hard as you can and its better to striking then fist.
@@JKDandWingChun
1 - But using gun dont must meant to kill or even shoot, but just presenting gun is really good deterrent, you can easily found example on YT when on guy pull gun and then call cops holding thug on gun point.
In us depending on state you can have very wide legal range when you can use gun like in really know example of Zimmerman.
And gun are great for smaller weak people (like most women) becasue it have the same power no matter the personal strength.
2 But in you examples this are big events, with security and low threat level, and if in this type of event something happened then would probably be crazy gunman so hand to hand combat would be really helpful.
They are a lot of other places where guns are banned like some fast foods, malls, bars etc but if you conceal carry they have no right to search you.
3 Sorry but jamming is really low possibility with good quality gun like glocks, and statistically gun fight self defense scenarion, defender shoots about 5 round, so having 13+ round plus you can have spare magazine is just enough.
Wing Chun it’s self is abit useless I do wing Chun myself and if u get taken down it’s kinda game over you need to know how to grapple is just how people fight in the streets now
All I’m gonna say is ip man and what he did in his life their is more elements to it yes it needs like kickboxing for range attacks but your forgetting all the techniques like iron palm your chi stuff like that is what you need to do to improve master in wing Chun, iron technique, and body chi would destroy any MMA fighter
Wing chun is the best
Anderson Silva and jon Jones fighting template has wing Chun in their mma style . Wing Chun could work it just depends on the person
anderson silva and jon jones have not wing chun in their system. thats just made up dude. anderson has a muay thai back ground and a bjj black belt by the noguira brothers. Also did boxing fights. Jon Jones is a wrestler who trains his muay thai and boxing and does all kind of crazy stuff. but wing chun...thats bs. anderson is waving his hands cuz he just waves his hands not cuz he s doing wing chun.
@@minasz wing Chun is my favorite martial art. And Anderson silver and Jon Jones are my favorite. ithink iknow what I'm talkin about .. it's called " mixed " martial arts for a reason
Silva utilized ZERO WC last Saturday night. He got his knee blown out as proof. The WC stance will prevent you from being kicked in the legs
Anderson Silva did JKD, dunno about Jon Jones. How much he cared about his JKD is hard to say, but there is video of him at least learning from Dan Inosanto.
But even doing JKD, even though it takes from Wing Chun I wouldn't say is the same as saying they use Wing Chun. Like how modern day boxing is different from old day pugilism. Saying you do boxing doesn't mean you do old school pugilism, and saying you take from JKD doesn't mean you take from Wing Chun. The philosophies and such start to change as they get innovated.
Lol
dude all those 3 points u r making that wingchun is better than mma are kind of weak. it depends on wingchun guy need to just as good as mma fighter in all aspects. which means wingchun guy needs to be able to fight aganst with bjj skills, boxing skills, sanda skills etc and beats all those by just wingchun? so wingchun is THE ONE? dude, do u even believe what u have said?
A lot of Mma fighters have some background in Wt and jkd,but they never use in Mma,why?
Why you see in a cage a mixture of martial arts,but no Wt,jkd, aikido,penkat silat...?
Because its doesn't work.
As simple as that.
You can't talk a lot of theory and its seems right,but in the practice,in the cage,don't work
Its not because it does not work its more because of the meta of the sport and the rules set associated in it and the knowledge that the oppenent does not have a weapon etc etc...
Wing chun doesn’t work. Muay thai, boxing, kickboxing, etc are all far better for striking.