I mean, Mick Gordon is a guy who sampled a chainsaw and a kangling in his ost, and even decided to learn Mongolian throat chanting in a Mongolian monastery so he could sing for another of his pieces. Did they think he was the kind of guy who would back down?
Often the people willing to do almost anything to do a job perfectly are the ones taken advantage of the most because their goal is to do a good job, and if the employer keeps moving the goalposts people like mick only try harder to meet expectations that are always moved 2 steps ahead of what he has achieved.
Unbelievable that Marty felt _entitled_ to destroy a skilled freelancer’s professional reputation, when freelancers depend _utterly_ on that reputation for their income.
Thats cause Marty is a powertripper thats unfortunately a dime a dozen in most if not all walks of life. The real question is why these people dont get their lives destroyed in return
@@blahblahgdp people like Marty live in a bubble of yes men too concerned with trying to climb the ladder themselves than to try and seek justice. Corporate culture has no appeals to humanity, just greed.
@@onepunchman4444 You are living proof that the Doom fan base is comprised of spineless consumers by taking people criticizing a product you didn’t make as a personal attack. Hope you enjoy your slop.
As a side note, Mick is one of the kindest and most humble dudes to ever be a part of the industry. I recently sent him an email and he responded pretty quickly, thanking me for taking time to message him and assures me that this experience with DOOM Eternal was a complete outlier and he does not want it to taint the image of Video Game composition as a whole. As a music production student, Mick is a huge inspiration to me so for him to respond with kindness and interest highlight the strength of his character.
Just wanted to add I had a similar experience communicating with Mick. You can tell through both the quality of his work and the way he treats others that he doesn't just love what he does, it's his life's purpose, and he is encouraging others to pursue their dreams in a similar way. I had emailed Mick years ago to ask him about some of the gear and techniques he uses and he took the time to give a fair amount of detail and care for someone who was undoubtedly a very busy person. When I read the "open letter" a few years later after Doom: Eternal was released, I was very confused and surprised. I didn't assume Marty had lied, and I figured Mick must have experienced some kind of significant personal setback or loss that affected him, because it was just not in line with everything I'd read and with my own experience talking with him. Now that the truth is out, I'm angry, but it's so good to see the only personal or professional setback Mick was dealing with was dealing with Marty and Bethesda/iD/Zenimax himself. I hope he continues to shine.
@@JesusChrist-ey9qt he has a contact page on his website that you fill in. It's probably just for business stuff, but I wanted to shoot my shot and let him know how important his work has been in my life and how moving his statement was.
Ah yep just got to the part confirming he brought in lawyers. Smartest way to respond to a guy like Marty who breathes as easily as he manipulates and intimidates.
Too bad he wasn't smart enough NOT to sign the contract in the first place. The point everyone seems to miss in his gigantic report of what went down, is that he didn't receive the contract about the OST until AFTER the announcement was made. At that point he should have looked at the deadline and said "NOPE. This isn't a realistic timeline, plus you guys already screwed me by announcing the existence of the OST without even having me under contract". As far as I'm concerned, he knew what he was getting into and now he's whining about it after the fact. I think ID \ Marty's reports about Mick being a prima donna and an impossible person to work with are just as valid as Mick's complaints about their delays.
Exactly. The game was great, but the soundtrack solidified it all. Mick made a video of how he made that soundtrack and it is just brilliant. This is and will be a notable point in gaming and sound design. The fact that he made people who would normally NEVER listen to that style of music accepting of just how great it fits the game, is far more telling.
@@dudarino666 What gets me even more is in DOOM 2016, Mick WANTED the soundtrack to be more metal focused but the suits wanted it more wubsteppy. He found a decent middle ground, created a system for it to be a dynamic soundtrack (it shifts with the fights) and won awards and clout in the industry for his innovation. THEN Eternal came out and he said "more metal" and made an ost that blew 2016 out of the water. One thing leads to another, Mick leaves on really bad terms with the company (if what he said happened was true, beyond justified) yet urges fans to still support DOOM Eternal because so much work went into it by the dev team. I still love Eternal. But with this company as it isnow, it's the finale of the series for me.
I suspected the same. It just seemed too idiotic for an executive not to get a contract ready before announcing a project unless there were ulterior motives. That it took half a year to even start negotiations was just ridiculous. Finding out from Mick that negotiations didn't even end until three months later, leaving him less than a month to work on the OST just boggles the mind.
A lot of us seen it that way when that post hit reddit. We been following Mick for years. His fan base includes his other works, besides DOOM. We seen through the bs since day one. The hate he got though is regrettable. Hoever,, Marty needs to burn.
Mick was upset since day one, he openly expressed a level of mistreatment by ID Software, but it was sold to the public as a misunderstanding. Now we see the whole picture
It was suspicious since the reddit post. Cant believe so many people took that seriously and used it to attack him, when he didn’t even have a clear say on the matter. I mean seriously, a company producer and director addressing a controversy on REDDIT? The site known for taking drama too far? It was obviously malicious, I just didn’t know how far it went
In retrospect, Marty's passive-agressive use of the term "popular" in his open letter against Mick was a HUGE red flag. The use of that word in professional context betrays his resentment and hostility- "he's the popular kid, I'm the victim here".
I just don't understand why the company would fuck up this badly and burn bridges with a useful asset. It's so illogical AND cruel. Like, there's actual spite and disdain in the way Mick was treated, not just incompetence.
I think it has to do with what was said at the beginning of the video. Mick is a freelancer, he doesn't wanna work for a company. The "refused to get in line" suggest that iD wanted total control of Mick, but he wasn't giving it to them, so they sabotage him. I think of iD as a spitful ex.
I think perhaps the issue is you're thinking "the company" that made a decision to do this, when in fact it seems to stem from an ego tripping suit from the top who made things Just Happen with no analysis or really any deliberate decision making behind it.
@@abdulmasaiev9024 Well if the company even actually had any decent competence, they would have known that Mick is very important and destroying him has completely no benefits to the company, at all. If Marty wasn't given repercussions by the company after Mick's statement, then the blame goes to the company too -- for breeding incompetence at the highest levels.
It's Bethesda. They've gotten to be as big as they are in spite of their incompetence, not because they're really that great. They also have a bit of a history of screwing over the people they work with, but the stuff they pulled with Human Head Studios and Prey 2 is the most egregious. Pete Hines saying Prey 2 "Didn't meet Bethesda's quality standards" is both one of the most blatant lies from any game company, but also proof that this kind of behavior is not exclusive to the lower management.
Toxic narcissists in positions of power over you are the worst. Had to deal with someone like that during my undergrad who was in control of the university's co-op program. These people constantly make terrible mistakes (as you would expect someone that doesn't properly evaluate the views of others against their own) and will forever try to throw everyone else under the bus until their dying breath no matter how obvious their own culpability is.
They are also almost always sociopaths too! No empathy. Just selfish ambition no matter the cost to others. My FIL and SIL are both narcissistic sociopaths and the damage they did to my wife growing up cannot be overstated. I encourage everyone to read up on these types of people and avoid them as much as possible.
Yep people like that are very very common in positions of power. Sadly it's easier for someone with no empathy and a talent for self aggrandization and shifting blame to rise in large organisations.
@@SpuddMacgyver Honestly dude I get your point but then what about all the hundreds of hard-working developers who are busting their asses for the game, along with Hugo who seems to be a pretty child dude? If you wanted to boycott a game because somebody at the top level might be a d-bag you're probably gonna have to boycott every game currently made these days.
@@travistotle i have no doubt Doom The Dark Ages will make a ton of money and all the devs will be taken care of but at my age sleeping good is more important and being made aware of how terrible he is I would rather just play something else instead. Im not starving for games anytime soon. (1400 on xbox alone)
EXACTLY! How can that guy maintain his position, after the whole internet, his co-workers and interns know, what a douchebag he truly is. ID Software seems very confident, that the loyality of their fans must be bigger, than their anger for Marty Stratton.
The saddest part of this, is that Mick did what was expected of a professional and tried to fix this behind the scenes. Despite his professionalism, I worry he's still going to have trouble getting work. What a patient man. I couldn't have gone this long after all that...
@@superleetmegapunx that where you got it completely wrong it's not because I am again Mick that I am obligatory on id/Bethesda side A could care less about them I never spent one dime on Bethesda/id game that why I play on PC lol this is how much I care for them or any dev, game studio that's go for the big 3 as well
@@superleetmegapunxlot of effort lol if you think this is lot of effort you seem really weak lol if someone respond to me a will respond just like a did right there thank you I am proud of my pirate hat It's you the moron who pay 70 buck for half finished game full of lootbox and other microtransactions with a pirated game you got none of this stupid shit And you don't get atrocious performance because of some denuvo shit
@@superleetmegapunx lol man first you said it was a lot of effort now it a novel with 4 sentence lol If you can't deduct that I am trolling and laughing at moron like you maybe you just brain-dead Are you the guy that was crying because is job at Starbucks was too hard and working 20 hour a week was too much lol But why are you still responding you do seem to care a lot for your little Mikey lol
Thing is that Bethesda has publicly stated that Mick is lying in his Medium post. Problem is that Mick proved how Marty had lied earlier so it needs more than just "they're lying" since they've already been caught in multiple lies. I've heard through the grapevine that he's not easy to work with, but in no way makes it okay to flat out lie, start a smear campaign and then getting caught and respond with "trust me bro, we can prove that he lied". They're really lucky Mick waited 2 years, because this would've tanked the game.
At this point I'd be happy to throw money at a kickstarter to fund Mick sueing Marty and ID for defamation. These people only get away with this shit because they try to silence people. This is why I'm a big advocate for everything being completely open and transparent. The truth should never be hidden or all you get are evil fuckers like this getting away with stuff.
Bet he only waited so he didn't fuck his future career. No publisher would touch him if he went out of the way to reduce profits, no matter how justified.
The worst part to me is that, as mentioned early, this kind of stuff happens literally all the time in the entertainment industry. It's one of the key reasons for such high burnout rates in video game work in particular. People just want to make good fun products, and then shitty, egotistical, greedy managers and corporate figures screw over the people that make their entire jobs and lifestyle possible while taking all the credit and none of the blame. People working countless hours for months or years on end, spending little to no time outside of work, getting divorced because they're never home for their family, losing friends, all that just to put out a game on some arbitrary release schedule. Think of how many buggy, broken AAA games have come out in the last few years. Stories like these built all of those games, ruining lives and careers, all for a game that people trash, send death threats over and forget about in weeks. And the suits never lose their jobs, only the talent that actually makes it all possible. It is WELL beyond time for the video game and entertainment industry to unionize. People who love art and know how it works should be making the decisions, not people who haven't the faintest clue or care for everything that goes into it and are just there to get paid for churning through people so another anthem or battlefield 2042 get crapped out.
Surprising that there are games worse that those games you listed at the end... AAA games mid you too. (Concord) I know anthem has horrible quality content and even more bugs though.. It really is sad how the people there must've been treated
Probably just greedy money mongers who will side with the "big boss doing drastic decisions" because they identify with the greedy fuckers on top basically they're defending their power greed goals of wanting to be a soulless suits ejaculating money onto people for the illusion of "success". Avoid these people.
Really makes one wonder if Marty bought some bots to make sure his narrative is the only acceptable narrative on reddit. A pretty easy thing to do and Marty apparently hated Mick for some reason.
i never woulda believed marty. someone who puts in the type of effort to make beautiful and unique music the way mick does, is not gonna be on the type of bs marty was accusing him of.
Fact that I will not be able to hear a lossless, high quility version of the soundtrack that I can own, especially in a physical form, just leaves a real bitter taste over this genuinely great series. I would've loved to just pick apart each detail of the tracks.
@@StandardUserFromEarthThey tell us to vote with our wallets, and yet when we do, we get fucking nothing. The art exists, the audio files exist, but we can't get it in any way.
Arkane studios, human head studios, obsidian entertainment, the OG devs who made fallout, wow Bethesda seems to have a long track record of always screwing someone over.
Maybe it's petty bully style revenge for EA screwing them over on Grid Iron back in the day, btw that's why Madden exists: EA told Bethesda they'd publish a sequel to Grid Iron instead they stole the source code and made Madden.
It starts with bethesda slapping their filthy logo on games they didn't made. Then there's crunch Shady deals Corpo actions Not only bethesda doesn't know how to make fallout they also don't know how to contract freelancers
@@ryszakowy Bethesda doesn't know how to make games in general. Emil actually admitted they don't even follow design documents in his 'Talks From Story' presentation.
@@Mirthful_Midori you don't need to follow pre existing design if you're creative and passionate enough with money being the least of your interests. That clearly is not the case with Bethesda, they're incompetent period. That's the equivalent of "writing a book without knowing what language you're writing in"
Might as well give up games. Even in the indie industry there are quite often cases of people abusing their co-workers. The only games where you're sure this won't happen is the games developed by a single person. Because there the single dev can only abuse oneself. Which... Is not great either, but life do be like that. If others don't fuck you over, you'll often end up doing it yourself.
I have a feeling that part of Marty's vitriolic treatment of Mick is because Mick skirted the 'no-metal' rule for Doom 2016. The original vision was not for any sort of guitars to be used, hence why Mick used a chainsaw sample over guitars. Mick went past what was asked of him, for the better, yes, but he went past what was asked of him. And the game was *so* much better for it. No way that that didn't sting Marty's pride.
I mean as a contractor you give the client what they want, not necessarily what they ask for (and experience gives you the knowledge and understanding to figure out the difference). They had no complaints with his work in 2016 and he won them an award for best soundtrack which is a pretty big deal that any company should be happy about as it adds to their reputation.
@@ShiningDarknes That's the principle of professionalism, yes, but in that this mistreatment occured we can see that Marty had no qualms about maintaining professionalism, nor recognizing that perhaps his scope for the game's soundtrack was not the most stellar of options. If they'd complained in 2016 while Mick was in his stride with the Doom Soundtrack, it would've been the wrong time. His perfectionism as an artist being put forward as the blame material was quick, believable and decisive. And Mick couldn't really do anything because it *was* true. He hadn't completed his Eternal soundtrack. He hadn't had the time he needed. Which was possibly, deliberately not given to him to make him fail and set this whole thing up. Doesn't take a genius to design that kind of smear. Mick altered the face of Doom with his soundtrack. Going off the contractor example, imagine if you made a brass statue for a health clinic. Yeah, sure, it looks cool, it commemorates an important figure in medical history maybe, but you spent the health clinic's rennovation budget on a statue and simple steps when they wanted an artsy staircase. You came up with something better, and the designer is defensive about his own worth now.
@@dhuh6760 You last paragraph is exactly what I am talking about when I say experience lets you know the difference between what they want and what they are asking for. They are not asking for nor do they want a statue so that would never be on the table to begin with. You are also not "blowing their budget" they give you a figure that they will pay you to do a thing. That is already the budget sorted, if they want to give you more to do more, they can write up a new contract. Also with architectural work you have to submit a design first that has to be approved so if they don't like the statue with steps they will just tell you to redesign it. He didn't "alter the face of DOOM" they _approved_ his soundtrack on 2016 and that ultimately means they were okay with whatever he ended up giving them. They could have said "no this isn't what we wanted change [x,y,z]" but they didn't.
You can hear the difference between the main games music and the DLC music. The FLC music sounds like I tried to copy Mick Gordon with FL studio at home
Honestly with how integral mick's ost has become to the game's image, I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't another doom game for the next few development cycles. Hopefully in that time bethesda could realize the importance of his work to their IP and offer him a fair contract (plus some more for treating him like shit). I can't know for sure but by the tone of mick's letter it doesn't seem like he's too bitter to consider working on doom again. Who knows though, they might just shelf the IP entirely or simply get someone else to produce the soundtrack as they've done with the DLC. I'm sure there's plenty of composers out there who could create great doom ost, but even if the tracks were great I think there would still be controversy from the fans about replacing mick.
I mean the game franchise is over anyways. Maybe that's why they waited until this game to treat him like trash. But they won't have him for Quake sooo, ID shot themselves in the foot for other games' soundtracks.
@@UrPilotNatt how do you know the franchise is over? In today's gaming space sequel's and prequels is all their is. No original ips or ideas anymore. Whether it's 5 or 20 years there will be another doom
Wow, I have experienced a lot of rage just hearing about this, can’t imagine actually living it. I’m not sure exactly what Mick Gordon can do going forwards, but I hope this leads to Marty losing his job because some of his actions aren’t even legal, never mind how disgusting and deplorable they are. Even if he lost his job, I doubt he’ll ever have to suffer nearly as much as he’s made Gordon or others, failing to disclose deadlines, crunching 20 hour days, then rejecting and stealing music. He is so lucky that Gordon has covered his ass for so long. Although, call it naive, I suppose all I’d want is for him to is to acknowledge his behavior and stop being both a fraud and an active nuisance to the people he works with, but that appears to be too much for him. He has a serious ego problem to think he’s owed anything from somebody he has stolen money from, publically slandered, repeatedly insulted personally, and more. I feel bad speaking so badly about someone I have not met, but to say this behavior is extremely unprofessional is putting it somewhat lightly given how he has been given repeated opportunities over literal years to change course. Thank you for bringing attention to this topic!
If you work at a company as a regular employee you are fired for less damage than this. It is crazy how leadership are not held responsible for the damage they cause both to employee/conctractor trust and to the public image of the company.
It’s not surprising mick waited 2 years to post this. The article clearly states how much stalling and time wasting occurred to settle this. The thing that boggles me the most about this is that Mick isn’t some random feelancer that was on boarded to Doom Eternal. He’s the dude that won the previous game who had the same leads their musical awards, and is a huge name in the industry. How do you treat someone who’s brought you so much success and is so key to the franchise like that? The reason so many people believed Marty is cause it would be done for iD to treat Mick this way. But lo and behold, video game industry trends prevail. I can’t believe iD wouldn’t settle for mick to redo the OST. That is beyond nice as an offer after all this.
How Mick di*k taste clown The poor little guy lol who care about this moron he not even that great and seem to be real slow in is work he just a whinny little bitch Just like this generation of lazy moron who cannot do hard work and alway complain it's hard working and can't even do a full 40 hour week
"How do you treat someone who's brought you so much success and is so key to the franchise like that?" Jealousy maybe? Because Mick Gordon is highly respected? Sounds really childish, but stupid people have the habit of acting very immaturely...
As a freelancer: F*** Marty. Even just looking at bullet points for the story between Marty and Mick it's obvious who the guilty party is. -A producer goes to Reddit to drag an artist that worked on the ost. Even if everything they say is true, that's kind of weird isn't it? Raises some eyebrows. -Id announced a purchasable soundtrack before telling Mick about it. This is a display of gross ignorance for how long it takes to make music, and as devs they would know that Mick produces music stems for Doom, not complete songs. To make an album with the stems he produced is an entirely new job than the one he was already doing. Look at: literally any band ever and how long it takes for albums to come out, also how most albums have around maybe 10 songs tops on average. -Mick was offered 6 figures to stay silent but decided speaking was more important. Guilty people don't usually do that, they would take the money instead of taking their chances. -Marty keeps bringing the sound producer into this for some reason. If he received grief from fans, it's 100% Marty's fault. -Telling a professional contractor to "get in line" is an enormous red flag. -Marty accepted the ost rewards on behalf of Id. Not Mick, not even Hugo. The...producer? Even though Id had nothing but good to come from Mick getting famous and tying his identity to Doom, Marty grew to irrationally spite him. I want to point out that Marty is simply the executive producer, yet he always insists on standing next to Hugo Martin on camera as if he's just as involved which I'm pretty certain he isn't. Keep in mind that in the games industry, producer means something different in the West than it does in Japan. In Japan, producers are much more hands-on and are basically directors or co-directors. In America, a producer is just the boss that handles business, timelines, manages the employees, and communicates with...the stakeholders. So when Marty is on camera we can't even ensure he's talking to us instead of the investors. Basically, Marty is a peacock. He insists on being on camera to look important when he isn't. He's replaceable. He wants to feel like a rockstar because he manages the Doom team when he's better off doing his actual job pencil pushing instead of stealing Hugo's limelight and slandering freelancers on reddit. TLDR Marty is a redditor
"-Id announced a purchasable soundtrack before telling Mick about it." This was clear to me, he never had any thought of letting Mick work on it. It was always going to be outsourced, until Mick proactively involved himself in the conversation.
Its crazy going back in the thread and seeing the edits of people talking shit about Mick being lazy and then 3 years later: "I didn't know", "I had no idea". His reputation was fucked during that period and neither ID or Marty will answer for the gaslighting and misrepresenting the situation.
@GrandHighGamer Yeah, but they never announced or disclosed it to be produced by Id's sound team, just that it was Mick Gordon's Doom Eternal OST, which is a pretty shitty thing to do, because at face value, the consumer would assume that Mick had complete control over the product when that wasn't the case at all. Legally, there wouldn't be any wrongdoings since all they would have to do would be to put it in the fine print of sorts, but technically not illegal doesn't mean much to an angry audience. I suspect Mick got involved because he wanted to be involved.
Fantastic comment, thank you for sharing this. Also LMFAO true Marty is the worst kind of redditor, the kind that is an insult to even the worse-than-average redditors. The extremely hierarchical, hyper-capitalist structure of the games industry is insane, self-destructive, and needs to be destroyed. Sorry for the long comment. Thanks again for sharing your perspective with the bullet points because I was unaware of some of this
I took a dislike to Marty Stratton when I saw him on stage trying to 'spin' the extra lives addition to Doom Eternal as some kind of 'cool, retro feature'. It smacked of bullshit in the way he presented it. Then when I played Doom Eternal, I realised the extra lives were a cop out to compensate for being pinned in a corner by demons when going through a glory kill/chainsaw animation. Same with the blood punch. You come out of the animation to find yourself surrounded, and if your blood punch isn't charged, you can die before you can shoot your way out of it. They added extra lives so players wouldn't complain about being killed due to bad mechanics/design (far more common in the ultra nightmare mode where you only get one life). The guy just reeks of being a con artist. Put him in his own room with as much milk as he can drink, and an unlimited supply of crayons, and keep him away from any kind of design decisions.
@@ckorp666I haven’t played 2016 but I think the coked up amount of abilities in eternal is the reason I won’t. Chaining all those abilities together and managing every system in game just makes it all the more satisfying when it goes well. That said, if you fall asleep at the wheel and forget to manage ammo/health/armor, you get cooked and it’s frustrating. I actually think the majority of the bloat surrounds all the upgrading systems in the game- as it felt like every mission they added a new element to that which had to be managed through boring menus and animations..
Funny you mention that "You come out of the animation to find yourself surrounded", One the first thing I feel going from 2016 to Eternal is how the hitboxes are much bigger, I 2016, you could dash by a mancubus/knight by going 45° toward them, in eternal if you try that you will instantly get punished by a melee attack. Also, I don't think it's a "bad mechanics/design", after all you chose to go for the glory kill/chainsaw. Getting surrounded is a punishment because you didn't think ahead. Don't get me wrong, I think it's annoying and could be helped with falter of the nearby demons when exiting a animation. Buts it's not bad design.
I never believed Mick Gordon was ever in the wrong. His prior work even before Doom and Wolfenstein are still absolute bangers. "Village of Whispers" is one of my favorite tracks he's done and his work is almost the unsung hero of anything he worked on
It should be noted that Doom Eternal was being developed while ZeniMax was planning to sell the entire company (which was eventually bought by Microsoft), meaning that Studio heads were pressured to cut down on expenses, and most likely Stratton saw Mick as an expense, especially notable as they clearly attempted to short-change Mick for his work as much as possible. Seeing that Mick was very proud of his work on Doom 2016, it is very weird that they treat him like trash during the development of the second game. Edit: Minor mistake at the end.
An interesting perspective. Both ZeniMax and Microsoft appear very motivated by the bottom line, so it makes sense that they'd try to screw people over and cut costs while keeping as much of the work and artistic merit as possible. Just recently, Microsoft unceremoniously shitcanned a couple of Bethesda developers, including Arkane Austin and Tango Gameworks, who both have commercial successes under their belts. I'm curious, then, whether the different studios were threatened with this kind of punishment years prior, and how narrowly id Software may have avoided that same fate.
Mick as an expense Guy made Doom 2016 the goat that it is It wouldn't have worked without him Can't say the same about Marty Pretty sure Marty is the expense
@@WDC_OSA It's such a shame that Redfall is Arkane Austin's swansong. Personally, I don't think it's as bad is it's made out to be, but there is a ton of things to criticise about it. But Arkane is a company that prided itself on doing nothing but SP im-sims, so...why would they make an always-online team shooter, L4D clone? I'll bet it was because they wanted to show to MS that, no, for real-real, Zeni's working on a money-printing game! There'll be skins and season passes and DLC and new weapons to buy from here until the heat-death of the universe! It was telling that people who worked on the game were absolutely floored that, no, instead of working on a highly-prestigious and thoughtful Arkane im-sim, they were gonna be doing an online-only co-op shooter.
This kind of incompetent management is rife with big companies. It stems from the people at the top not actually understanding the realities of the people doing the hard work below them. Clearly Marty fucked up from the start and instead of admitting he made a mistake and being flexible when faced with reality, he doubled, then tripled down on it. People like Marty, who are very good and shifting blame, almost always rise to the top. People who actually give a shit, like Mick, get burnt out, used up and spat out. And people like Marty face no consequences. It's why over 10000 people lost their jobs in the videogame industry last year, bad management. Sadly those responsible don't lose their jobs, or they jump ship before things get bad, with huge payouts and reputation intact.
I could understand that working with someone as eccentric and perfectionist as Mick Gordon could be seen as complicated or even bothersome but trying to paint him as unprofessional is the biggest lie they tried to push in that situation. I think it speaks volumes that Mick tried to salvage the situation and deliver on a quality product even when faced with such hostility and him not publicly speaking out about it before gathering all the facts and exploring his legal options is the MOST professional way anyone could have handled such a situation.
The example about Sandy’s City gets even worse when you take into account that it was a demo of one of Bobby Prince’s songs from DOOM II all the way back in the 90s and was submitted to Id under the impression that it was merely to get their feedback on what direction they’d like the soundtrack to go in, the cherry on top being that they didn’t get Bobby’s permission to use it in-game nor did they credit him anywhere in the soundtrack’s credits for its inclusion in the soundtrack.
What I find so scary about this is that you can be the creator of one of the most critically acclaimed video game soundtracks of all time, and still be fucked over this badly. Imagine this happening to someone who doesn't have the funds to get through the legal battle or the social outreach to clear their name. A smaller freelancer with less money would just have had their career ended, and Mick barely even got through it as a household name in the industry. It really shows how tough the artists in this industry has it, they can so easily be stepped on by higher ups who has infinite funds to fuck them over.
@@InfiniteDesign91 sadly you are not paid monthly your a freelancer you are only paid until publication (when the project is out to the public) and even than its a hard lengthy battle to be paid after the fact. so in hindsight lets say you spent 2 months on a project its only going to be published another 3 months after delivery of the job (that's 5 months of no money already) aaaaannnddd after publication you will than most likely wait another 2months to a year to be paid. so you will be sitting absolutely penniless from this job any where from 6 months to over a year to be paid. smaller jobs can wait 3 months to 9 months. and if your very lucky and its a client who respects you and the relationship will pay you before the 3 months. and the only way to combat this situation to a lesser time is having an agent/manager whose commission is 19-25% and also pay taxes on top of that so your lucky to walk away with 55% of the initial paid job.
I think it's extremely important for every single person hearing about this to actually sit down and read Mick's letter. I literally had to take breaks listening to it myself. Not because of its length, but from the sheer amount of second hand anxiety I was getting just reading about it. If Marty had conceded to just ONE of Mick's requests, they probably could have salvaged the situation. But Marty was on such a massive power trip, that he literally could not concede to anything, EVEN WHEN IT WAS TO HIS OWN BENEFIT. They could have had a better product to sell and made more money, but he was so far up his own ass, he couldn't stand to be flexible on literally anything. Marty is the amalgamation of every horrible manager that ever existed.
After the success of doom 2016 and the pressure to release eternal Marty seems to have developed borderline sociopathy. I mean 2016 released with basically no drama at least from the development team side of things but then this? Yikes.
Dude is so insistent on "making a point" that he'd rather murder a woman in broad daylight than daring to listen to a single other person in his entire life.
Jealousy is a powerful thing. Mick was one of the reasons doom 2016 was such a standout game and his talks on how to make game music inspired so many people. Marty and Chad will never have any of that and they know it so they have to tear Mick down.
Honestly surprised how Mick handled the situation. Most people would've just said "Fuck this shit, I'm not doing this." and leave immediately after the red flags were shown, but he stuck around for the whole project up to the OST's release (Which was of course horrible). What's worse is Mick pretty much was treated like an afterthought rather than just a big part of bring Doom Eternal's soundtrack to life. I think Mick definitely should've been treated with more respect by Marty, because someone like him does not deserve to be a higher up at Id Software, and managing a franchise as beloved as Doom. He just needed to pay Mick the money, and just be done with it, assuming he even had the money to begin with. It's a situation that is beyond frustrating. I hope Marty get's fired from all this, since it's just purely disgusting behavior, and I think myself and the Doom community can agree that we don't want these types of people working for a company that created one of gaming's most beloved franchises. Mick said it best himself. "I didn't quit Doom. I quit a toxic client." It's so sad that Mick is not alone on this. To all the freelancers out there, if you've ever received this kind of harassment, I'm terribly sorry. You guys deserve better. I hope Mick can see this, and know that I'm sorry this has happened. He did not deserve this.
I mean, he let Zenimax talk him into having the payment for the Rust (I think it was?) soundtrack he'd already done be lumped into the Eternal OST's payment so they kind of had him over a barrel. Which was kind of a running theme in the whole thing. Man needs a better agent.
Lol why pay someone for incomplete work and he signed the contract with the deadline nobody forced him he wanted all the flower from this he a narcissist he was fully aware that doom 2016 was is best work and wanted to capitalize on this he was a nobody before that without doom he would not be where he is now
@@misterhuman6469 you unmasked me excellent detective work Sherlock lol But seriously I was wondering why they where that many Mick accounts arguing with each other Mick this is called schizophrenia and the voice are just inside yours little head no wonder you can't respect contract deadline that you signed
The Marty letter was also believable, because it could be summarized in brief and reported on as just "Mick Gordon took too long to complete the OST", and that's believable because people can easily accept an artist being a perfectionist, and Gordon has a history of barely making deadlines (namely with his work on Killer Instinct, this is a documented anecdote from him). I'm sure Marty knew that when he made the post.
And there is still a huge difference between “barely making a deadline” and “not making a deadline”. All that really matters is making it, and if you do, that is professional and timely of you regardless of if you were stressing to get to it.
I'm sure there's some manipulated truth to a lot of what Marty says. It just lacks so much context and seems super biased. He really seemed to be out of touch with Mick's work as a whole- far from being able to say anything with any real authority.
@@gothicanimeangel96 I concur, that's an all or none philosophy on behalf of the top brass. You'll meet a ton of those in the business world So because 5 hours worth of content was required and only 4.8 was submitted, it somehow invalidates the value of it's contribution to the actual project. This is because 'managers' have no concept of artistic credibility only figures and projections The idea that you can be sued because the quality would be noticable on a soundtrack is smack of reptilian genetics. There is no breathing room for the human component to contributing to ones career Mick is right, you ought to vet your clients thoroughly.
I love how Doom is a franchise where people say "An album that comes with a free game" to it's recent games because of Mick's work but then he gets this treatment.
I really hope more people see this. I had no idea this was even a thing! Any freelancer doing work that they love don’t deserve to be treated like this. If it’s something they love, they’ll do it for their own price. Creators aren’t always the issue, sometimes it’s the commissioner that is the issue and the disconnect between the two.
I have no idea how Mick stood by so long with this. He is a legend. He is the reason we got Casey Edwards for DMCV. He put Omegasparxxx into KI. He seems so chill, and is a music philosopher. Just another reminder that there are better than myself, perhaps.
Mick is also probably the primary reason that Industrial Metal is in vogue again. That hasn't been the case since probably the early 2000s, and it's a welcome change.
This really looked like Marty had personal animosity towards Mick. Otherwise cotract negotiations should have started in November at the very least since Marty would not have to worry about "distracting" Mick from working on the score at that point. As for Chad Mossholder, it still baffles me how he could screw up the OST so badly despite having so many months to work on it. It make me wonder if he dumped the work on an intern and then tried to take credit.
Maybe Marty and Chad are friends and Chad asked for his moment to shine to Marty and he accepted bcs that's what friends do, but Zenimax wanted Mick in the project, so Marty was actively screwing everything so Mick would quit and give the chance to Chad.
@Sasha Lemay Marty doesn’t wear suits, but pretty sure he's also responsible. Instead of fighting back against the MBAs that rushed the launch, he scapegoated every problem to "Mick bad" & ruined his name.
Phenomenal work on this video. Coming back to this again after more Dark Ages footage dropped, since it's baffling to see the amount of people who seemingly forgot any of this happened. They also said in a recent Dark Ages video they hired the "team" at Finishing move to do the soundtrack for it. aka multiple people to replace ONE guy. Def not buying another Doom game moving forward
What bothers me the most about this situation is how borderline unprofessional and cruel Marty is to Mick, to an almost... idk hateful degree that can only really be described as pure envy. It's well established that Mick Gordon is well liked by people (inside and outside the gaming industry) for his professionalism, yet even after the success of DOOM 2016's soundtrack that Marty still treated Mick Gordon like trash for the next project. It really speaks a lot about Marty's insecurities as a human being. Even if they are his insecurities, there is no excuse for it and he's hurting other people and himself by doing this! Another thing that does bother me is the whole trophy thing, like. i cannot describe how flabbergasted i am with high ups keeping the awards that are credited to Mick Gordon. It's comparable to someone copying your art and resposting it elsewhere without crediting the original artist who put time and effort into that work. I won't be surprised if Mick Gordon's statement encourages any former co-workers or workers in the game industry (or any industry) to come forward with their own horror stories or allegations against the former companies they worked for or worked in. On a more positive note, despite all of this terribleness Mick has experienced, he has been approach by big metal core/heavy rock bands to work on some projects! He's already worked with Bring Me the Horizon's Post Human: Survival Horror, and recently this year he worked with Motionless in White for their album 'Scoring the End of the World'. I recommend people check those albums out they are very much worth your time :)
And now, a year later, the trailer for Doom: The Dark Ages just dropped. It looks and sounds amazing but I can't forget that id slandered and nearly blacklisted one of the best game audio producers of our time. id has a year to issue a retraction and/or apology to Mick Gordon. (Edit: 1.2K likes?! Thanks to everyone that took the time to read and comment!)
I'd say its the executive decision makers at iD that we should aim that at, not the entire studio itself. They're still passionate people working there, but its ego trippers like Marty that need a good comeuppance.
We cannot disregard when he was told that they didn't like many of his tracks, and they were using them in the game. This cannot be excused as an error of any kind, every detail seems deliberate.
Imagine being an artist and your current project is your "baby". That's why he wanted another go at the OST. They butchered his baby so he rightfully wanted to fix it. To reflect his abilities as a creator, instead of his reputation continuing to get smashed into the dirt.
This video just shows that Mick Gordon is one of the biggest treasure of the ENTIRE gaming world. He faced unimaginable shit and still pushed to made the game better
He's a fuckin trooper. He was going through all that horrible toxic bullshit and STILL delivered not just great music, but *more* music than what he did for 2016. It's crazy that Eternal has quality music at all after all the stress and rushing. He stuck it out and deserves every reward he can get for it.
This is one of the most disgusting forms of abuse I’ve seen of an free lance artist I’ve ever seen. How can this be allowed why do managers and companies for that matter feel the need to treat someone like this, they gain nothing from it
You're seeing corporations as an entity, in reality there's no entity, there's just little individual, human factors that can be easily swayed by capital or threat. Humans are horrible, and one having more power than others is always a recipe for disgusting displays of bureaucracy solely to fuck with someone else. Cue this situation spelt because a head honcho got offended a single guy stood to his capricious lifestyle.
I remember being in a general video game news subreddit that the open letter was cross-posted to. Even at the time, it rubbed me the wrong way how many people were SCARILY ready to accept the word of a video game exec over the freelance artist, easily assuming Mick was just some talented but toxic / hard to work with musician. The irony is that this subreddit typically prided itself on being pro worker, especially for game devs. Needless to say, I'm no longer in that subreddit.
The naïve and gullible love to believe their own lies as much as they believe others'. They just wont ever lift a finger to help any of the workers they "support"
The fact that Marty Stratton was such a blatant, extravagant liar was what really got to me. He seemed to have had a personal vendetta against Mick and went to extreme lengths to pursue it. I mean, what a piece of work.
Well done homie. As someone who was attached to ZM group not that long ago, I can tell you that: 1. Z Execs and their legal arm are no joke on how shrewd they are. 2. MS and Adam "SE" P. (Initials cuz I did signed a contract before leaving) are hella childish and entitled AF, but then again, they learnt to harness that behaviour from the boss (TH) before he left id. 3. Chad's move of attaching his name to the OST despite not composing any music and doing a sh*t job of it, is very much indicative of a work culture where ego/rank/prestige (and who you cuddle up to) is more important than ethics and skill. That kind of behavior didn't start with Chad but two Sound Directors ago. While Carmack was still in the building (but was plotting for his way out) 4. While it wasn't the fault of all id employees, I fault many of them because sound design is a crucial part of the (DOOM) gameplay and NOBODY (That we know of, so far) chose to stand up to MS (While he's Studio Director, the chain of command within id allows for him to be overridden/overruled), so they knew. (Granted, it's likely this was discussed internally and (like me) were given a reinforced/enhanced NDA to sign or be severed, so they chose to keep quiet and protect their jobs) 5. Now that there is egg on their face, there is no way ZM will back down or stop protecting MS. The best possible outcome is that they'll remain quiet (after their latest statement) and then either stall with their "evidence" (That they're scrambling to gather) or threaten legal flex and MAYBE clap back (Cuz their legal coffers are hella deep), but it'll be a nothing 🍔. 6. ZM's Sr. VPs of PR and MKTG (Not Bethesda's Pete Hines) have already stepped in and outlined the reputational damage caused by MS, however, IMO he'll still be around for upcoming titles, but will no longer be public-facing. ZM staff contracts for execs (Such as MS) are 4-5 Yrs. deep in length and it's more cost effective to shuffle MS around and "weather the storm" than to sever his contract or get involved in legal recourse for wrongful termination. #CarryOn.
@Malice with how easy it is on Social to BS around and "hide behind the keyboard" I don't blame you for taking everything I said with a giant grain of salt or not believing me, but I'm at peace with my time at ZM and it was an enormous source of pride to call some of the ZM staff I rallied with fellow peers. I saw id getting acquired, Rage (less than stellar launch), Carmack leaving, Doom getting rebuilt, the whole FB/Occulus beef, and selling to Papa Phil... But again, I'm just some random dude, so I don't blame you. :) - NGL, it sucks because the studio has A LOT of amazingly talented, passionate people, but you can see how the culture changed as people began to move up the ladder and ZM "priming" id to make it as financially efficient to make it as attractive as possible, so their IP valuation wouldn't degrade during the sale. I know at the end of the day is Biz, but yeah, being beholden to a cutthroat holdings company will tarnish the love/ideals you had about the industry before going in. Anyway, Legal takes their holidays VERY seriously so I doubt we'll hear anything from id/Bethesda until Q1 2023, but I do hope (albeit slim) they acknowledge their f*ck-up, make right by Mick, and learn from their mistake, making hard strides to earn their place as pro-consumer, creative pillars of industry instead of a bunch of entitled assh*les. #CarryOn.
@@EdwardVGrimm "Studio has a lot of talented people" that's how it always is isn't it, gamedev attracts such people; and usually crushes their soul. I've been hesitant to directly enter this workforce myself, but i did work on an engine that shipped a number of largely shovelware games in the past.
@@SianaGearz Kudos to you for doing Engine Dev work. That's A WHOLE another beast of work, so props to ya. :) I wasn't a Creative or a Dev during my time working there, but we were part of the team tasked to have other studios under the ZM/Bethesda umbrella to either "embrace" (more like push/ultimatum if I'm honest) the Creation Engine which so many refused or shift around resources for id to build upon id Tech 4 to IT5 (Since 4 was the last engine Carmack did before leaving and only like 4 people in a team of 60ish -At the time - knew all the ins and outs necessary to make it better)
Being a freelancer is very tough. Mick's story is harrowing but not unusual. Smaller scale, this happens all the time and as a freelancer it behooves you to get a contract signed on paper even if you have to send mail back and forth. Physical evidence is the only evidence that matters. Digital evidence works but isn't nearly as good as pen on paper. Moral of the story, if your potential client doesn't want to sign a contract, don't waste your or their time. Verbal agreements are not agreements at all.
I've done work Pro Bono and still get disrespected. Get a contract with a minimum non-refundable deposit. No exceptions. If the client is genuine and wants to move forwards in good faith, it shouldn't be a problem. "Sign here and send it back with a check." No exceptions!
I remember when Mick aired the dirt a few months ago and I’ll never forget how iD responded by retweeting Mick’s post and suggesting that it was irresponsible of him to post what he posted because he was subjecting their developers to harassment and damaging their reputations. It was a fucking abysmal and nihilistic attempt to save face by once again trying to vilify Mick, and my anger was only tempered by the fact that not only did most of the commenters see through iiD’s bullshit, but Mick himself retweeted iD’s post saying that the development team were professional and that he had no issues with them nor wanted anyone to go after any of the devs, he felt only Marty deserved to cop the flak
I almost feel slimy for paying for D:E and the DLC's after learning this. Read MG's entire article and I'm disheartened to learn that such a talented composer was treated with all of this abuse.
I had an absolute blast with Doom 2016, yet I have Doom Eternal sitting installed on SSD, unfinished to this day. I started a playthrough twice but never played past the first levels. It's as if I somehow knew something was off. (Yes, I know, that's quite impossible really, but I like the thought anyway.) That SSD is soon going to see some extra free space though. I don't feel like giving DE another attempt anytime soon.
I dismissed the open letter. 1) he created the 12 tracks, marty's claim didn't make sense that he wasnt able to produce on time etc. 2) diva behavior seems out of character, from his talk about the process, putting together a metal chior etc. he seem very passionate. I chalked it up as miscommunication and hoping it was just covid crunch...
Freelancers are treated like prostitutes or worse. It's atrocious. I freelanced twice and never did again. Whether it's hundreds of thousands of dollars or 50 dollars, people get drunk on the power they have over freelancers and take their miserable lives out on them.
Unfortunately in some states it is illegal to record without the consent of both parties and in many states while it may be legal it still may not be used in court.
Ngl I was always a bit iffy about Marty, there was just something off about him to me compared to any of the other ID devs so I guess I was on to something. Really sad so see them treat a musical genius like Mick like this, the man is arguably responsible for at least half of the success the recent games have had. Even people who don't play the games know about the soundtrack being absolute god-tier.
I don't understand why people ever do this, it would have been so much easier to have Mick on board and treat him well. AAA industry is just so full of stupid people.
As a former freelancer… NEVER EVER WORK WITHOUT A CONTRACT. And that contract has to nail down exactly what is in or out of scope, what you will be paid for, when you will be paid, etc. I suspect nothing will happen to Marty and Mick will never be compensated… but I really hope other freelancers (particularly in the video game industry) will learn from this tragic story.
The thing is that most jobs for freelancers, specially new freelancers, don't offer contracts, and laws are progresively making it worse. Specially now with a.i. look at julian casablancas, he used an artificial generated image for his last album cover instead of paying a freelance artist, and money wasn't an issue because casablancas is rich as shit. So yeah, the future of freelancing looks absurdly bleak
@vex8ion196 or new enterprices. I'm from argentina, apparently someone developed a trading card game like magic the gathering, and they use a.i. for the artwork. And they are super transparent about it, they do aim to eventualy hire real artists for special artwork but they explicitly state that a.i. will always be part of their model because it's just so much cheaper. This a fucking TCG bro, you know how much drawings are involved in those? Stacks upon stacks of drawings, that's a whole industry down the drain. It's fucking over.
what annoys me the most in all of this is how the gaming "community" always needs try to fix things by issuing death threats to whoever they believe is in the wrong
There was research about similar topics. Basically hearing the "bad news" over and over again its worse that being near or victim for short time. For example Boston marathon participants was more ok (not the one who was shoot at but near ones) than the people who was hearing about it for 6 hours from the news. I think human psychis is not build for masive income of negative information for long time.
I didn't threaten to kill anyone but I told Marty to go stick his dick in a paper shredder on my steam review so.. it got banned unfortunately after a few weeks
Damn, I feel so bad for Mick. And I was one of the morons who believed in Martys open letter. I hope Mick Gordon recovers from this and continues to create awesome soundtracks :)
Problem with that is, until Mick's reputation is cleared up by getting a public statement from Marty he might find it difficult to find professional work.
Well, Mick produced Post Human Survival Horror by Bring Me The Horizon, and you can tell his influence by just taking a listen to it. I hope he can keep on delivering good music in or out of Doom.
If you’re going to fuck over a team member, you better not try to fuck them over a masterpiece. The masterpiece will win. Mick bit his tongue, let the OST do the talking for him and then, when all anyone could hear is BFG division and the only thing they fear is you, that’s when he told his half of the story. Argent Metal. The guy invented a genre out of this work. You’re not going to outlast that kind of talent. Mick gave id 2.5 years to make some kind of amends. More than enough time. Now comes payback.
Rule of thumb: avoid corporations who are dedicated to increasing shareholder value. Only work with studios whose primary goal is making good games. Indie studios, large independents who arent publicly traded, and those with a good reputation
Bosses and corporations love industries where people are driven by passion for their craft because that means they can manipulate their workers more easily. The games industry needs to be unionized because this crap is unacceptable
What I have learned from music and trying to work in it, is the high entitlement narcissist's are at every corner. You are something for them to discover and exploit. So glad Mick is a real pro and gave us the courtside seats as to how to deal with these guys. It sucks he's dealt with it to this level but now we can all see, you have to protect yourself. You shouldn't even be talking to the developers, if they are not working to the tee of the contract or being reasonable, then the attorneys can settle it before we get to slandering each other on reddit.
Same thing with all the Blizzard mistreatment of their employees (including sexual assault accusations). The newest Diablo sold tons of copies. Unfortunately the majority of people don't care. They just want their new source of dopamine release.
Mick did say himself to keep supporting the devs and employees despite what Marty did to him. They still do quality work and had no hand in his mistreatment. I think the only way to make Marty feel any heat would be for Mick to pursue him legally.
A big part of the reason why it's so easy to believe Marty's open letter is because of the sheer quality if Mick's work on the first Doom OST. He made such a banger soundtrack that it's clear to all of us outside the industry that Mick is the golden egg-laying goose for iD. There's no way in hell iD and Bethesda is gonna fuck him over, they wouldn't dare... Right? And lo and behold, corporate greed strikes yet again.
Not even sure this is corporate greed so much as just an extreme narcissist on a power trip. There were several moments in the saga where the most profitable thing to do would have been to bury the hatchet, and yet still they doubled-down on lies.
There's an old saying, "every accusation is a confession." Seldom has it rung more true than Marty Stratton's accusations against Mick Gordon. id, Bethesda, and Zenimax aren't seeing a red cent of mine until I find a public apology for how they've mistreated Mick here. The fact that, at any point, Mick went 11 months without being paid - nearly a year - should be criminal. Utterly criminal. I have held a personal boycott against Bethesda and Zenimax after the umpteenth re-release of Skyrim and the paid mods debacle, not to mention numerous abuses of their playerbases and the communities those playerbases have formed. This has just further justified my decision.
As a graphic design freelancer, I really feel for Mick. Getting mistreated by clients after you’ve put in so much hard work and time for them is honestly one of the most soul crushing and stressful scenarios, but this is to a whole new level. I got really stressed out after my most recent client who’s refused to pay me for the last 3 months, but I couldn’t even begin to imagine how it would feel to go through what Mick is going through with iD and Bethesda. Good on him though to stay professional through all this, really shows the strength of his character
I'm glad you're spreading this information - it's imperative people do, as this entire story is so wretched that it seems like something out of fiction, and Mick and Marty both deserve justice relative to their roles in this story.
Yeah i dont understand what Bethesda is thinking. Mick Gordon was single handedly carrying the modern doom IP. HE WAS DOOM. Now without him, I couldn't care less about any fuckin new 'doom' game. Mick Gordon inspired me to play guitar and to get doom (2016). I owe it to him to support his art rather than a overcalculated corporation. Thanks Bethesda. Thank you microsoft... for nothing.
I watched this video thinking this dude had like several million subscribers, looked at the sub count and only had 2 thousand. You are really underrated man, keep it up!
The unions don't fix the broken system, sadly. Workplaces should reflect the government they operate under. There is no excuse for dictatorial work hierarchies. We all know better. It's time for change.
Unfortunately it wouldn't help the situation in this case: unions are for employees, and Mick was not an employee, he was a contractor. Contractors do, however, have their own union equivalent: the guild. (e.g. the Writer's Guild of America, the Screen Actors Guild, etc.)
no. i work for a union and all they do is take ~$50 from my paycheck every 2 weeks. they also use that money to fund campaigns for elections for a certaon party. i cant speak for unions in other countries, but fuck the teamsters union here in america (the largest union in america if im not mistaken)
I just read Mick's whole post, and wow. Just... wow. It sounds like it's well past time for a lawsuit: For unpaid work, for making promises about Mick's work that they'd never given him a contract for, and for defamation. This shit is absolutely unacceptable.
Started DOOM Eternal recently and definitely noticed the drop in quality for the soundtrack. I recalled the drama on the topic a while back while playing through the main campaign. This video surfaced onto my feed at the right time! :)
I wish this never happened. Majority of the reason I play DOOM is because of the amazing soundtrack, so if the successor doesn’t meet the greatness of Mick’s music, I fear I’m not going to play another DOOM game. This is very sad, and I hope that Mick gets apologies from all of those who criticized him for something he didn’t do. Mick is a great artist, and I hope he composes for the next game.
Thankfully Mick is still working in the industry (hopefully that respect him). The upcoming game Atomic Heart is shaping up to be one hell of a ride, in both gameplay AND sound. Mick is composing for that game, see the trailers for the game seriously it's so exciting. He's also making the soundtrack for the upcoming game ROUTINE, there's a trailer for that one too. What we've heard from Atomic Heart so far has actual metal guitar riffs in it, along with Mick's signature style of electronic brain candy. He might be done with Doom, but he's definitely not done with making banger soundtracks for games. As for Doom, David Levy and Andrew Hulshult took the helm for making the soundtrack in the DLC The Ancient God's 1 & 2. While it definitely sounded different, there's a huge amount of potential in those two and both are making their own spin on Mick's style. Check out Hulshult's remake of the Doom 1 soundtrack "IDKFA". It's a hell of a good listen ;) Basically, Mick's future isn't dead, and Doom will probably have an awesome soundtrack again.
Hulshult def seems to be the new Doom composer going forward, and if I had to pick a dude that wasn’t Mick it’d be him. Unfortunately David Levy isn’t working on the next game alongside him, which is a shame as he made some of my favorite DLC tracks for TAG.
I will never forgive Marty Stratton for this, i remember the whole thing from start to finish, Micks post was bittersweet, confirmation he didnt fuck up, but also that he wouldnt work with ID again until Marty is gone.
I like how Mick separated the game and most of the people who worked on it from his specific grievances. In these organizations, passing the buck to an outside contractor can be an easy way to avoid accountability.
I wish Mick all the best and I hope he never has to tolerate abuse like this again. He so clearly cares deeply about making an incredible soundstrack for something he loves. It's sickening to see that drive and talent so callously exploited. I worry for whoever takes the mantle for the Dark Ages OST, and I hope they're able to defend themselves from predatory behavior like this. We want more great experiences from this new entry in the series, but no one deserves to suffer this much to make it happen.
Yeah, it would be nice if there was a way to send Mick money directly. I mean if I hadn't known all this, I would have had no problems buying the OST and iD making a profit. After this I prefer Mick actually gets compensated for tolerating as much as he did, and preferably iD/Bethesda maybe not profiting from exploiting Mick. In this case I would definitely not buy the OST via channels where iD would reap the profits , but instead send Mick the 100% of the price of that OST directly somehow (and be fine with not being able to listen to the music).
If I read Mick Gordon's personality correctly, he will have more work than ever. If he's as humble as I think he is, he will be willing to work for lower fees not only to keep himself occupied but because he truly thinks his value was diminished (which is not true btw). Fair people might have bad moments but they'll be fine because they're good workers.
I'm so sorry for Mick, the quality was notably lower and many of us were curious about that but I would have never expected it to be this horrendous. I hope there is closure to be had on his side.
I am glad that I haven't yet bought eternal. Looks like I'm gonna slap on an eye patch and raise the jolly rodger for this one. Music hits me right in the feels hard, and metal hits double as hard for me, it was the first music genre I truly loved. Doom 2016's music was a beautiful homage to another childhood favorite of mine, DOOM. He made that game what it is, and made my skin tingle with goosebumps. This mistreatment is inexcusable.
I never believed that "open letter". One listen to the mix/master quality of the soundtrack made it crystal clear that Mick didn't make it. It was also VERY unlike him to act even a fraction as unprofessional as he was accused of acting. Lastly, and most importantly, Marty gave literally no evidence for anything that he claimed. Not one iota.
I had no idea they did Mick THAT dirty dude what the heck and it sucks that he won’t work on DOOM:DA soundtrack because of the mistreatment but at least we have his work in 2016 and Eternal
Im very glad Mick is finally speaking on this. I never really believed that "open letter" given Mick's history of quality and it's good to see the shit hit the fan to clean his name.
I mean, Mick Gordon is a guy who sampled a chainsaw and a kangling in his ost, and even decided to learn Mongolian throat chanting in a Mongolian monastery so he could sing for another of his pieces. Did they think he was the kind of guy who would back down?
He's like Doom guy, unstopable...
No way the throat singing thing is real…. I remember a vid where he worked with someone from a mongol metal band
@@LL-gx3yj I heard it it was for Killer Instinct. For Jago's theme
Often the people willing to do almost anything to do a job perfectly are the ones taken advantage of the most because their goal is to do a good job, and if the employer keeps moving the goalposts people like mick only try harder to meet expectations that are always moved 2 steps ahead of what he has achieved.
Didnt know Max0r was being serious
Unbelievable that Marty felt _entitled_ to destroy a skilled freelancer’s professional reputation, when freelancers depend _utterly_ on that reputation for their income.
Thats cause Marty is a powertripper thats unfortunately a dime a dozen in most if not all walks of life. The real question is why these people dont get their lives destroyed in return
@@blahblahgdp people like Marty live in a bubble of yes men too concerned with trying to climb the ladder themselves than to try and seek justice. Corporate culture has no appeals to humanity, just greed.
A severe case of "little PP energy"
I’d dare say that was the point.
@@DustyLamp "why did you do it"
The average 9-5 corporate shill: -money- I have six children and two wives to feed.
I hate how the Doom fan base has seemingly forgotten this happened.
So we're not supposed to play this game made by one of the best developers in the industry because Marty is a scumbag? Nah we're good
@@onepunchman4444Obviously you can play it. What you should not do until Mick receives an apology is buy it.
@@onepunchman4444 Really repping the Doom community there bud.
@@onepunchman4444You are living proof that the Doom fan base is comprised of spineless consumers. Hope you enjoy your AAA slop.
@@onepunchman4444 You are living proof that the Doom fan base is comprised of spineless consumers by taking people criticizing a product you didn’t make as a personal attack. Hope you enjoy your slop.
Mick not accepting the money to stay silent is the kind of integrity everyone should thrive to have.
As a side note, Mick is one of the kindest and most humble dudes to ever be a part of the industry. I recently sent him an email and he responded pretty quickly, thanking me for taking time to message him and assures me that this experience with DOOM Eternal was a complete outlier and he does not want it to taint the image of Video Game composition as a whole. As a music production student, Mick is a huge inspiration to me so for him to respond with kindness and interest highlight the strength of his character.
Just wanted to add I had a similar experience communicating with Mick. You can tell through both the quality of his work and the way he treats others that he doesn't just love what he does, it's his life's purpose, and he is encouraging others to pursue their dreams in a similar way. I had emailed Mick years ago to ask him about some of the gear and techniques he uses and he took the time to give a fair amount of detail and care for someone who was undoubtedly a very busy person. When I read the "open letter" a few years later after Doom: Eternal was released, I was very confused and surprised. I didn't assume Marty had lied, and I figured Mick must have experienced some kind of significant personal setback or loss that affected him, because it was just not in line with everything I'd read and with my own experience talking with him. Now that the truth is out, I'm angry, but it's so good to see the only personal or professional setback Mick was dealing with was dealing with Marty and Bethesda/iD/Zenimax himself. I hope he continues to shine.
We truly do not deserve this man 😭
What’s his email address?
@@JesusChrist-ey9qt he has a contact page on his website that you fill in. It's probably just for business stuff, but I wanted to shoot my shot and let him know how important his work has been in my life and how moving his statement was.
You better be like that to one of *your* fans someday
Mick was obviously smart enough to hire a lawyer and compile evidence before making his response. I love that.
Ah yep just got to the part confirming he brought in lawyers. Smartest way to respond to a guy like Marty who breathes as easily as he manipulates and intimidates.
It's a damn shame it's necessary, but it's nice that so many artists these days have wised up to the reality of our overly litigious mentality.
Too bad he wasn't smart enough NOT to sign the contract in the first place. The point everyone seems to miss in his gigantic report of what went down, is that he didn't receive the contract about the OST until AFTER the announcement was made. At that point he should have looked at the deadline and said "NOPE. This isn't a realistic timeline, plus you guys already screwed me by announcing the existence of the OST without even having me under contract". As far as I'm concerned, he knew what he was getting into and now he's whining about it after the fact. I think ID \ Marty's reports about Mick being a prima donna and an impossible person to work with are just as valid as Mick's complaints about their delays.
@@Tamarocker88why 88 in your profile? 🤔
@envyLP333 why 333 in your profile?
Damn, that's messed up.
Mick should get a special award for resisting the temptation of stealing Marty's kneecaps if anything.
Ooo, a strong temptation indeed
That shit must've been like the forbidden fruit
But this time he told the snake to fuck off
Marty should get proper punishment. 2 years of manual work in quarry for example.
@@Artoooooor 1 week of scaphism will do
@@samschreiber1640 he should produce a soundtrack under the same circumstances and management
Marty, while holding a bunch of Mick's awards:
"Mick is unprofessional, antagonistic and incompetent."
Exactly. The game was great, but the soundtrack solidified it all. Mick made a video of how he made that soundtrack and it is just brilliant. This is and will be a notable point in gaming and sound design. The fact that he made people who would normally NEVER listen to that style of music accepting of just how great it fits the game, is far more telling.
@@dudarino666 What gets me even more is in DOOM 2016, Mick WANTED the soundtrack to be more metal focused but the suits wanted it more wubsteppy. He found a decent middle ground, created a system for it to be a dynamic soundtrack (it shifts with the fights) and won awards and clout in the industry for his innovation. THEN Eternal came out and he said "more metal" and made an ost that blew 2016 out of the water.
One thing leads to another, Mick leaves on really bad terms with the company (if what he said happened was true, beyond justified) yet urges fans to still support DOOM Eternal because so much work went into it by the dev team. I still love Eternal. But with this company as it isnow, it's the finale of the series for me.
I predicted the fact that Mick Gordon was slandered by Id Software, but wow I didn't know it was THIS bad.
I suspected the same. It just seemed too idiotic for an executive not to get a contract ready before announcing a project unless there were ulterior motives. That it took half a year to even start negotiations was just ridiculous. Finding out from Mick that negotiations didn't even end until three months later, leaving him less than a month to work on the OST just boggles the mind.
A lot of us seen it that way when that post hit reddit. We been following Mick for years. His fan base includes his other works, besides DOOM. We seen through the bs since day one. The hate he got though is regrettable. Hoever,, Marty needs to burn.
The saddest fact is that reddit community is so soy, they believe every BS that media showed in their empty skulls.
Mick was upset since day one, he openly expressed a level of mistreatment by ID Software, but it was sold to the public as a misunderstanding. Now we see the whole picture
It was suspicious since the reddit post. Cant believe so many people took that seriously and used it to attack him, when he didn’t even have a clear say on the matter. I mean seriously, a company producer and director addressing a controversy on REDDIT? The site known for taking drama too far? It was obviously malicious, I just didn’t know how far it went
In retrospect, Marty's passive-agressive use of the term "popular" in his open letter against Mick was a HUGE red flag. The use of that word in professional context betrays his resentment and hostility- "he's the popular kid, I'm the victim here".
Marty cries out in pain as he strikes you
Remember, if you ever see Marty on the street, remind him of how much of a literal bag of manure he is.
But there’s trueth that to that
@@poorsoul8492 please shut up lol
Hindsight is 20/20
I just don't understand why the company would fuck up this badly and burn bridges with a useful asset. It's so illogical AND cruel. Like, there's actual spite and disdain in the way Mick was treated, not just incompetence.
I think it has to do with what was said at the beginning of the video. Mick is a freelancer, he doesn't wanna work for a company.
The "refused to get in line" suggest that iD wanted total control of Mick, but he wasn't giving it to them, so they sabotage him.
I think of iD as a spitful ex.
I think perhaps the issue is you're thinking "the company" that made a decision to do this, when in fact it seems to stem from an ego tripping suit from the top who made things Just Happen with no analysis or really any deliberate decision making behind it.
@@abdulmasaiev9024 Well if the company even actually had any decent competence, they would have known that Mick is very important and destroying him has completely no benefits to the company, at all. If Marty wasn't given repercussions by the company after Mick's statement, then the blame goes to the company too -- for breeding incompetence at the highest levels.
Narcissistic sociopaths
It's Bethesda. They've gotten to be as big as they are in spite of their incompetence, not because they're really that great. They also have a bit of a history of screwing over the people they work with, but the stuff they pulled with Human Head Studios and Prey 2 is the most egregious. Pete Hines saying Prey 2 "Didn't meet Bethesda's quality standards" is both one of the most blatant lies from any game company, but also proof that this kind of behavior is not exclusive to the lower management.
Toxic narcissists in positions of power over you are the worst. Had to deal with someone like that during my undergrad who was in control of the university's co-op program. These people constantly make terrible mistakes (as you would expect someone that doesn't properly evaluate the views of others against their own) and will forever try to throw everyone else under the bus until their dying breath no matter how obvious their own culpability is.
They are also almost always sociopaths too! No empathy. Just selfish ambition no matter the cost to others. My FIL and SIL are both narcissistic sociopaths and the damage they did to my wife growing up cannot be overstated. I encourage everyone to read up on these types of people and avoid them as much as possible.
Yep people like that are very very common in positions of power. Sadly it's easier for someone with no empathy and a talent for self aggrandization and shifting blame to rise in large organisations.
@@jayr7965 excellently stated
Seeing Marty Stratton smiling and laughing at the recent gamespot DOOM: The Dark Ages chat boiled my blood!
ID software dark age
Yea as cool as the game looks Its gonna be getting boycotted by me just like Eternal was because of Marty.
@@SpuddMacgyver Honestly dude I get your point but then what about all the hundreds of hard-working developers who are busting their asses for the game, along with Hugo who seems to be a pretty child dude? If you wanted to boycott a game because somebody at the top level might be a d-bag you're probably gonna have to boycott every game currently made these days.
@@travistotle i have no doubt Doom The Dark Ages will make a ton of money and all the devs will be taken care of but at my age sleeping good is more important and being made aware of how terrible he is I would rather just play something else instead. Im not starving for games anytime soon. (1400 on xbox alone)
EXACTLY! How can that guy maintain his position, after the whole internet, his co-workers and interns know, what a douchebag he truly is. ID Software seems very confident, that the loyality of their fans must be bigger, than their anger for Marty Stratton.
The saddest part of this, is that Mick did what was expected of a professional and tried to fix this behind the scenes. Despite his professionalism, I worry he's still going to have trouble getting work. What a patient man. I couldn't have gone this long after all that...
Expected from a professional lol not making deadline is not expected from a professional clown
@@legros731 How's that corporate phallus tasting?
@@superleetmegapunx that where you got it completely wrong it's not because I am again Mick that I am obligatory on id/Bethesda side
A could care less about them I never spent one dime on Bethesda/id game that why I play on PC lol
this is how much I care for them or any dev, game studio that's go for the big 3 as well
@@superleetmegapunxlot of effort lol if you think this is lot of effort you seem really weak lol if someone respond to me a will respond just like a did right there
thank you I am proud of my pirate hat
It's you the moron who pay 70 buck for half finished game full of lootbox and other microtransactions with a pirated game you got none of this stupid shit
And you don't get atrocious performance because of some denuvo shit
@@superleetmegapunx lol man first you said it was a lot of effort now it a novel with 4 sentence lol
If you can't deduct that I am trolling and laughing at moron like you maybe you just brain-dead
Are you the guy that was crying because is job at Starbucks was too hard and working 20 hour a week was too much lol
But why are you still responding you do seem to care a lot for your little Mikey lol
Thing is that Bethesda has publicly stated that Mick is lying in his Medium post. Problem is that Mick proved how Marty had lied earlier so it needs more than just "they're lying" since they've already been caught in multiple lies. I've heard through the grapevine that he's not easy to work with, but in no way makes it okay to flat out lie, start a smear campaign and then getting caught and respond with "trust me bro, we can prove that he lied". They're really lucky Mick waited 2 years, because this would've tanked the game.
@@xid1158makes sense for him as atleast with Witcher he was a source material purist
@xid Yep. Stubborn or sticking to your value means they get annoyed
At this point I'd be happy to throw money at a kickstarter to fund Mick sueing Marty and ID for defamation. These people only get away with this shit because they try to silence people. This is why I'm a big advocate for everything being completely open and transparent. The truth should never be hidden or all you get are evil fuckers like this getting away with stuff.
Bet he only waited so he didn't fuck his future career. No publisher would touch him if he went out of the way to reduce profits, no matter how justified.
@xid case in point: Hideo Kojima
The worst part to me is that, as mentioned early, this kind of stuff happens literally all the time in the entertainment industry. It's one of the key reasons for such high burnout rates in video game work in particular. People just want to make good fun products, and then shitty, egotistical, greedy managers and corporate figures screw over the people that make their entire jobs and lifestyle possible while taking all the credit and none of the blame.
People working countless hours for months or years on end, spending little to no time outside of work, getting divorced because they're never home for their family, losing friends, all that just to put out a game on some arbitrary release schedule. Think of how many buggy, broken AAA games have come out in the last few years. Stories like these built all of those games, ruining lives and careers, all for a game that people trash, send death threats over and forget about in weeks. And the suits never lose their jobs, only the talent that actually makes it all possible.
It is WELL beyond time for the video game and entertainment industry to unionize. People who love art and know how it works should be making the decisions, not people who haven't the faintest clue or care for everything that goes into it and are just there to get paid for churning through people so another anthem or battlefield 2042 get crapped out.
Surprising that there are games worse that those games you listed at the end... AAA games mid you too. (Concord) I know anthem has horrible quality content and even more bugs though.. It really is sad how the people there must've been treated
Well said, agree completely 🤘🏻
I remember being attacked in the comments for taking Mick's side and doubting Marty's letter two years ago. I'm glad this has finally come to light.
Probably just greedy money mongers who will side with the "big boss doing drastic decisions" because they identify with the greedy fuckers on top
basically they're defending their power greed goals of wanting to be a soulless suits ejaculating money onto people for the illusion of "success".
Avoid these people.
Really makes one wonder if Marty bought some bots to make sure his narrative is the only acceptable narrative on reddit. A pretty easy thing to do and Marty apparently hated Mick for some reason.
@@MrDMIDOV Don't even think bots are required. Some people will just eat up the narrative and attack anyone doubting it.
Such a sad world.
@@Gramstaal Some people are stupid
i never woulda believed marty. someone who puts in the type of effort to make beautiful and unique music the way mick does, is not gonna be on the type of bs marty was accusing him of.
It’s been almost 4 years and we never got an official soundtrack release. Only Re uploads on RUclips…this is bullshit.
I'm still angry about this whole fiasco. I would have blasted the shit out of it on Spotify
@@psyanah4542 i download the songs as mp3s and add on Spotify
You can do that too if you wanna go through the trouble
Fact that I will not be able to hear a lossless, high quility version of the soundtrack that I can own, especially in a physical form, just leaves a real bitter taste over this genuinely great series. I would've loved to just pick apart each detail of the tracks.
@@StandardUserFromEarthThey tell us to vote with our wallets, and yet when we do, we get fucking nothing. The art exists, the audio files exist, but we can't get it in any way.
@@NaimHrustanovic ...and yet, they'll still complain when the pirate banners are raised...
Arkane studios, human head studios, obsidian entertainment, the OG devs who made fallout, wow Bethesda seems to have a long track record of always screwing someone over.
Maybe it's petty bully style revenge for EA screwing them over on Grid Iron back in the day, btw that's why Madden exists: EA told Bethesda they'd publish a sequel to Grid Iron instead they stole the source code and made Madden.
Corporations cannibalizing themselves whenever they get the chance? Who would've guessed
It starts with bethesda slapping their filthy logo on games they didn't made.
Then there's crunch
Shady deals
Corpo actions
Not only bethesda doesn't know how to make fallout they also don't know how to contract freelancers
@@ryszakowy Bethesda doesn't know how to make games in general. Emil actually admitted they don't even follow design documents in his 'Talks From Story' presentation.
@@Mirthful_Midori you don't need to follow pre existing design if you're creative and passionate enough with money being the least of your interests.
That clearly is not the case with Bethesda, they're incompetent period. That's the equivalent of "writing a book without knowing what language you're writing in"
Game trailer looked cool, but, I'll be passing this time.
I refuse to support abusive companies.
You could pirate it.
facts. Not going to pay for it until there is an apology or Mick is compensated.
I'll sail the high seas for the game, Bethesda deserves nothing for it
Its on gamepass soo
Might as well give up games. Even in the indie industry there are quite often cases of people abusing their co-workers. The only games where you're sure this won't happen is the games developed by a single person. Because there the single dev can only abuse oneself. Which... Is not great either, but life do be like that. If others don't fuck you over, you'll often end up doing it yourself.
I have a feeling that part of Marty's vitriolic treatment of Mick is because Mick skirted the 'no-metal' rule for Doom 2016. The original vision was not for any sort of guitars to be used, hence why Mick used a chainsaw sample over guitars. Mick went past what was asked of him, for the better, yes, but he went past what was asked of him. And the game was *so* much better for it. No way that that didn't sting Marty's pride.
it was just no guitar but i was also thinking of this as well. it was a big thing that marty kept talking about in streams and interviews
I mean as a contractor you give the client what they want, not necessarily what they ask for (and experience gives you the knowledge and understanding to figure out the difference). They had no complaints with his work in 2016 and he won them an award for best soundtrack which is a pretty big deal that any company should be happy about as it adds to their reputation.
@@ShiningDarknes That's the principle of professionalism, yes, but in that this mistreatment occured we can see that Marty had no qualms about maintaining professionalism, nor recognizing that perhaps his scope for the game's soundtrack was not the most stellar of options.
If they'd complained in 2016 while Mick was in his stride with the Doom Soundtrack, it would've been the wrong time. His perfectionism as an artist being put forward as the blame material was quick, believable and decisive. And Mick couldn't really do anything because it *was* true. He hadn't completed his Eternal soundtrack. He hadn't had the time he needed. Which was possibly, deliberately not given to him to make him fail and set this whole thing up. Doesn't take a genius to design that kind of smear.
Mick altered the face of Doom with his soundtrack. Going off the contractor example, imagine if you made a brass statue for a health clinic. Yeah, sure, it looks cool, it commemorates an important figure in medical history maybe, but you spent the health clinic's rennovation budget on a statue and simple steps when they wanted an artsy staircase. You came up with something better, and the designer is defensive about his own worth now.
@@dhuh6760 You last paragraph is exactly what I am talking about when I say experience lets you know the difference between what they want and what they are asking for.
They are not asking for nor do they want a statue so that would never be on the table to begin with. You are also not "blowing their budget" they give you a figure that they will pay you to do a thing. That is already the budget sorted, if they want to give you more to do more, they can write up a new contract.
Also with architectural work you have to submit a design first that has to be approved so if they don't like the statue with steps they will just tell you to redesign it.
He didn't "alter the face of DOOM" they _approved_ his soundtrack on 2016 and that ultimately means they were okay with whatever he ended up giving them. They could have said "no this isn't what we wanted change [x,y,z]" but they didn't.
@@ShiningDarknes Even when they did they ended up using his work anyway so they’re still in the wrong.
Well that sucks for Doom fans cause it just means the next Doom game won't have Mick to make the slappin sound track. We all lose. Thanks Bethesda.
You can hear the difference between the main games music and the DLC music. The FLC music sounds like I tried to copy Mick Gordon with FL studio at home
Honestly with how integral mick's ost has become to the game's image, I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't another doom game for the next few development cycles. Hopefully in that time bethesda could realize the importance of his work to their IP and offer him a fair contract (plus some more for treating him like shit). I can't know for sure but by the tone of mick's letter it doesn't seem like he's too bitter to consider working on doom again.
Who knows though, they might just shelf the IP entirely or simply get someone else to produce the soundtrack as they've done with the DLC. I'm sure there's plenty of composers out there who could create great doom ost, but even if the tracks were great I think there would still be controversy from the fans about replacing mick.
I mean the game franchise is over anyways. Maybe that's why they waited until this game to treat him like trash. But they won't have him for Quake sooo, ID shot themselves in the foot for other games' soundtracks.
@@UrPilotNatt how do you know the franchise is over? In today's gaming space sequel's and prequels is all their is. No original ips or ideas anymore. Whether it's 5 or 20 years there will be another doom
@@DeadNastyRust I mean he has no powers anymore, would be kind of a lame sequel lol
Wow, I have experienced a lot of rage just hearing about this, can’t imagine actually living it. I’m not sure exactly what Mick Gordon can do going forwards, but I hope this leads to Marty losing his job because some of his actions aren’t even legal, never mind how disgusting and deplorable they are. Even if he lost his job, I doubt he’ll ever have to suffer nearly as much as he’s made Gordon or others, failing to disclose deadlines, crunching 20 hour days, then rejecting and stealing music. He is so lucky that Gordon has covered his ass for so long. Although, call it naive, I suppose all I’d want is for him to is to acknowledge his behavior and stop being both a fraud and an active nuisance to the people he works with, but that appears to be too much for him. He has a serious ego problem to think he’s owed anything from somebody he has stolen money from, publically slandered, repeatedly insulted personally, and more. I feel bad speaking so badly about someone I have not met, but to say this behavior is extremely unprofessional is putting it somewhat lightly given how he has been given repeated opportunities over literal years to change course. Thank you for bringing attention to this topic!
Mick can use class action lawsuit against bethesda
@@thedarkdragon1437 he would have done that earlier but he said he cant afford it so maybe not
Did Mick steal Marty’s girlfriend or something? This kind of bitchiness in a man is something you only see from someone who feels emasculated.
@@cosmictreason2242
I was thinking the same thing. That's the kind of energy you see by a man who just got cucked
The only way this can have a good ending is if Marty ends up homeless and starts crying about it when it's his own fault.
If you work at a company as a regular employee you are fired for less damage than this. It is crazy how leadership are not held responsible for the damage they cause both to employee/conctractor trust and to the public image of the company.
It’s not surprising mick waited 2 years to post this. The article clearly states how much stalling and time wasting occurred to settle this.
The thing that boggles me the most about this is that Mick isn’t some random feelancer that was on boarded to Doom Eternal. He’s the dude that won the previous game who had the same leads their musical awards, and is a huge name in the industry. How do you treat someone who’s brought you so much success and is so key to the franchise like that?
The reason so many people believed Marty is cause it would be done for iD to treat Mick this way. But lo and behold, video game industry trends prevail.
I can’t believe iD wouldn’t settle for mick to redo the OST. That is beyond nice as an offer after all this.
Game producers are infamously idiotic and arrogant.
How Mick di*k taste clown
The poor little guy lol who care about this moron he not even that great and seem to be real slow in is work he just a whinny little bitch
Just like this generation of lazy moron who cannot do hard work and alway complain it's hard working and can't even do a full 40 hour week
@@legros731 You alright dude? You seem to be a little irate.
@@nekochibi2256 perfectly good thank you for asking
"How do you treat someone who's brought you so much success and is so key to the franchise like that?"
Jealousy maybe? Because Mick Gordon is highly respected? Sounds really childish, but stupid people have the habit of acting very immaturely...
The amount of vitriol I developed toward Marty when I read the letter is unfathomable.
As a freelancer: F*** Marty. Even just looking at bullet points for the story between Marty and Mick it's obvious who the guilty party is.
-A producer goes to Reddit to drag an artist that worked on the ost. Even if everything they say is true, that's kind of weird isn't it? Raises some eyebrows.
-Id announced a purchasable soundtrack before telling Mick about it. This is a display of gross ignorance for how long it takes to make music, and as devs they would know that Mick produces music stems for Doom, not complete songs. To make an album with the stems he produced is an entirely new job than the one he was already doing. Look at: literally any band ever and how long it takes for albums to come out, also how most albums have around maybe 10 songs tops on average.
-Mick was offered 6 figures to stay silent but decided speaking was more important. Guilty people don't usually do that, they would take the money instead of taking their chances.
-Marty keeps bringing the sound producer into this for some reason. If he received grief from fans, it's 100% Marty's fault.
-Telling a professional contractor to "get in line" is an enormous red flag.
-Marty accepted the ost rewards on behalf of Id. Not Mick, not even Hugo. The...producer?
Even though Id had nothing but good to come from Mick getting famous and tying his identity to Doom, Marty grew to irrationally spite him. I want to point out that Marty is simply the executive producer, yet he always insists on standing next to Hugo Martin on camera as if he's just as involved which I'm pretty certain he isn't. Keep in mind that in the games industry, producer means something different in the West than it does in Japan. In Japan, producers are much more hands-on and are basically directors or co-directors. In America, a producer is just the boss that handles business, timelines, manages the employees, and communicates with...the stakeholders. So when Marty is on camera we can't even ensure he's talking to us instead of the investors.
Basically, Marty is a peacock. He insists on being on camera to look important when he isn't. He's replaceable. He wants to feel like a rockstar because he manages the Doom team when he's better off doing his actual job pencil pushing instead of stealing Hugo's limelight and slandering freelancers on reddit.
TLDR Marty is a redditor
Reddit is a cesspit huh
"-Id announced a purchasable soundtrack before telling Mick about it."
This was clear to me, he never had any thought of letting Mick work on it. It was always going to be outsourced, until Mick proactively involved himself in the conversation.
Its crazy going back in the thread and seeing the edits of people talking shit about Mick being lazy and then 3 years later: "I didn't know", "I had no idea". His reputation was fucked during that period and neither ID or Marty will answer for the gaslighting and misrepresenting the situation.
@GrandHighGamer Yeah, but they never announced or disclosed it to be produced by Id's sound team, just that it was Mick Gordon's Doom Eternal OST, which is a pretty shitty thing to do, because at face value, the consumer would assume that Mick had complete control over the product when that wasn't the case at all. Legally, there wouldn't be any wrongdoings since all they would have to do would be to put it in the fine print of sorts, but technically not illegal doesn't mean much to an angry audience. I suspect Mick got involved because he wanted to be involved.
Fantastic comment, thank you for sharing this. Also LMFAO true Marty is the worst kind of redditor, the kind that is an insult to even the worse-than-average redditors. The extremely hierarchical, hyper-capitalist structure of the games industry is insane, self-destructive, and needs to be destroyed.
Sorry for the long comment. Thanks again for sharing your perspective with the bullet points because I was unaware of some of this
I took a dislike to Marty Stratton when I saw him on stage trying to 'spin' the extra lives addition to Doom Eternal as some kind of 'cool, retro feature'. It smacked of bullshit in the way he presented it.
Then when I played Doom Eternal, I realised the extra lives were a cop out to compensate for being pinned in a corner by demons when going through a glory kill/chainsaw animation. Same with the blood punch. You come out of the animation to find yourself surrounded, and if your blood punch isn't charged, you can die before you can shoot your way out of it. They added extra lives so players wouldn't complain about being killed due to bad mechanics/design (far more common in the ultra nightmare mode where you only get one life).
The guy just reeks of being a con artist. Put him in his own room with as much milk as he can drink, and an unlimited supply of crayons, and keep him away from any kind of design decisions.
@@ckorp666I haven’t played 2016 but I think the coked up amount of abilities in eternal is the reason I won’t. Chaining all those abilities together and managing every system in game just makes it all the more satisfying when it goes well. That said, if you fall asleep at the wheel and forget to manage ammo/health/armor, you get cooked and it’s frustrating. I actually think the majority of the bloat surrounds all the upgrading systems in the game- as it felt like every mission they added a new element to that which had to be managed through boring menus and animations..
@@ckorp666 I think 2016 was a more concise game overall. Plus, relevant to the topic, the soundtrack is much superior...
@@LucasBadurYeah, '16 had a better art direction and soundtrack. Wasn't bloated with mechanics either and was generally a bit less punishing
Funny you mention that "You come out of the animation to find yourself surrounded", One the first thing I feel going from 2016 to Eternal is how the hitboxes are much bigger, I 2016, you could dash by a mancubus/knight by going 45° toward them, in eternal if you try that you will instantly get punished by a melee attack.
Also, I don't think it's a "bad mechanics/design", after all you chose to go for the glory kill/chainsaw. Getting surrounded is a punishment because you didn't think ahead. Don't get me wrong, I think it's annoying and could be helped with falter of the nearby demons when exiting a animation. Buts it's not bad design.
Skill issue. Take the rune that speeds up glory kill animations and the rune that gives you a speed boost after coming out of the glory kill.
I never believed Mick Gordon was ever in the wrong. His prior work even before Doom and Wolfenstein are still absolute bangers. "Village of Whispers" is one of my favorite tracks he's done and his work is almost the unsung hero of anything he worked on
Ahh a Killer Instinct fan I see.
@@nicolala7132 oddly enough, no. I just like his soundtracks. He helped revitalize Wolfenstein and he isnt even credited with it all that much
For me Mick Gorden is every bit as inspiring as John Williams was to me.I love his work and his music in doom is magical.I also am a KI fan lol.
@@JH70778 how do u even misspell the name of the person that this vid and the whole comment section is about
u really have to be special
Rewatching this after seeing the new Doom The Dark Ages trailer, feels bad man.
it’s goofy as shit regardless
Piracy is illegal, everyone! Just like abuse and refusing to pay your contractors.
@@enchantedcandlewick2000people worked on that who didn’t do anything wrong so until you can prove everyone involved said fuck mick I’m still playing
@@CrungySpungus those people already got paid and are working on the next game their CEOs can abuse a freelancer with.
Dark Ages music sounded as mid as TAG...
It should be noted that Doom Eternal was being developed while ZeniMax was planning to sell the entire company (which was eventually bought by Microsoft), meaning that Studio heads were pressured to cut down on expenses, and most likely Stratton saw Mick as an expense, especially notable as they clearly attempted to short-change Mick for his work as much as possible. Seeing that Mick was very proud of his work on Doom 2016, it is very weird that they treat him like trash during the development of the second game.
Edit: Minor mistake at the end.
An interesting perspective. Both ZeniMax and Microsoft appear very motivated by the bottom line, so it makes sense that they'd try to screw people over and cut costs while keeping as much of the work and artistic merit as possible.
Just recently, Microsoft unceremoniously shitcanned a couple of Bethesda developers, including Arkane Austin and Tango Gameworks, who both have commercial successes under their belts. I'm curious, then, whether the different studios were threatened with this kind of punishment years prior, and how narrowly id Software may have avoided that same fate.
I hate capitalism. It crushes artists.
Mick as an expense
Guy made Doom 2016 the goat that it is
It wouldn't have worked without him
Can't say the same about Marty
Pretty sure Marty is the expense
@@WDC_OSA It's such a shame that Redfall is Arkane Austin's swansong. Personally, I don't think it's as bad is it's made out to be, but there is a ton of things to criticise about it. But Arkane is a company that prided itself on doing nothing but SP im-sims, so...why would they make an always-online team shooter, L4D clone?
I'll bet it was because they wanted to show to MS that, no, for real-real, Zeni's working on a money-printing game! There'll be skins and season passes and DLC and new weapons to buy from here until the heat-death of the universe!
It was telling that people who worked on the game were absolutely floored that, no, instead of working on a highly-prestigious and thoughtful Arkane im-sim, they were gonna be doing an online-only co-op shooter.
This kind of incompetent management is rife with big companies. It stems from the people at the top not actually understanding the realities of the people doing the hard work below them. Clearly Marty fucked up from the start and instead of admitting he made a mistake and being flexible when faced with reality, he doubled, then tripled down on it. People like Marty, who are very good and shifting blame, almost always rise to the top. People who actually give a shit, like Mick, get burnt out, used up and spat out. And people like Marty face no consequences. It's why over 10000 people lost their jobs in the videogame industry last year, bad management. Sadly those responsible don't lose their jobs, or they jump ship before things get bad, with huge payouts and reputation intact.
I could understand that working with someone as eccentric and perfectionist as Mick Gordon could be seen as complicated or even bothersome but trying to paint him as unprofessional is the biggest lie they tried to push in that situation.
I think it speaks volumes that Mick tried to salvage the situation and deliver on a quality product even when faced with such hostility and him not publicly speaking out about it before gathering all the facts and exploring his legal options is the MOST professional way anyone could have handled such a situation.
The example about Sandy’s City gets even worse when you take into account that it was a demo of one of Bobby Prince’s songs from DOOM II all the way back in the 90s and was submitted to Id under the impression that it was merely to get their feedback on what direction they’d like the soundtrack to go in, the cherry on top being that they didn’t get Bobby’s permission to use it in-game nor did they credit him anywhere in the soundtrack’s credits for its inclusion in the soundtrack.
What I find so scary about this is that you can be the creator of one of the most critically acclaimed video game soundtracks of all time, and still be fucked over this badly. Imagine this happening to someone who doesn't have the funds to get through the legal battle or the social outreach to clear their name. A smaller freelancer with less money would just have had their career ended, and Mick barely even got through it as a household name in the industry. It really shows how tough the artists in this industry has it, they can so easily be stepped on by higher ups who has infinite funds to fuck them over.
If somebody does not have the funds, then they probably bailed out after not getting paid for 1 month.
I have been noticing this more and more, this happened twice at Bungie already
@@InfiniteDesign91 sadly you are not paid monthly your a freelancer you are only paid until publication (when the project is out to the public) and even than its a hard lengthy battle to be paid after the fact. so in hindsight lets say you spent 2 months on a project its only going to be published another 3 months after delivery of the job (that's 5 months of no money already) aaaaannnddd after publication you will than most likely wait another 2months to a year to be paid. so you will be sitting absolutely penniless from this job any where from 6 months to over a year to be paid. smaller jobs can wait 3 months to 9 months. and if your very lucky and its a client who respects you and the relationship will pay you before the 3 months. and the only way to combat this situation to a lesser time is having an agent/manager whose commission is 19-25% and also pay taxes on top of that so your lucky to walk away with 55% of the initial paid job.
I think it's extremely important for every single person hearing about this to actually sit down and read Mick's letter. I literally had to take breaks listening to it myself. Not because of its length, but from the sheer amount of second hand anxiety I was getting just reading about it. If Marty had conceded to just ONE of Mick's requests, they probably could have salvaged the situation. But Marty was on such a massive power trip, that he literally could not concede to anything, EVEN WHEN IT WAS TO HIS OWN BENEFIT. They could have had a better product to sell and made more money, but he was so far up his own ass, he couldn't stand to be flexible on literally anything. Marty is the amalgamation of every horrible manager that ever existed.
Marty is pretty much the most common manager in our world
marty stratton, the ultrakaren
@@thedarkdragon1437 literally this. You don't become a manager by being anything other than a bag of greedy weasel shit.
After the success of doom 2016 and the pressure to release eternal Marty seems to have developed borderline sociopathy. I mean 2016 released with basically no drama at least from the development team side of things but then this? Yikes.
Dude is so insistent on "making a point" that he'd rather murder a woman in broad daylight than daring to listen to a single other person in his entire life.
Jealousy is a powerful thing. Mick was one of the reasons doom 2016 was such a standout game and his talks on how to make game music inspired so many people. Marty and Chad will never have any of that and they know it so they have to tear Mick down.
Honestly surprised how Mick handled the situation. Most people would've just said "Fuck this shit, I'm not doing this." and leave immediately after the red flags were shown, but he stuck around for the whole project up to the OST's release (Which was of course horrible). What's worse is Mick pretty much was treated like an afterthought rather than just a big part of bring Doom Eternal's soundtrack to life.
I think Mick definitely should've been treated with more respect by Marty, because someone like him does not deserve to be a higher up at Id Software, and managing a franchise as beloved as Doom. He just needed to pay Mick the money, and just be done with it, assuming he even had the money to begin with. It's a situation that is beyond frustrating. I hope Marty get's fired from all this, since it's just purely disgusting behavior, and I think myself and the Doom community can agree that we don't want these types of people working for a company that created one of gaming's most beloved franchises. Mick said it best himself. "I didn't quit Doom. I quit a toxic client."
It's so sad that Mick is not alone on this. To all the freelancers out there, if you've ever received this kind of harassment, I'm terribly sorry. You guys deserve better.
I hope Mick can see this, and know that I'm sorry this has happened. He did not deserve this.
I mean, he let Zenimax talk him into having the payment for the Rust (I think it was?) soundtrack he'd already done be lumped into the Eternal OST's payment so they kind of had him over a barrel. Which was kind of a running theme in the whole thing. Man needs a better agent.
Lol why pay someone for incomplete work and he signed the contract with the deadline nobody forced him he wanted all the flower from this he a narcissist he was fully aware that doom 2016 was is best work and wanted to capitalize on this he was a nobody before that without doom he would not be where he is now
iD Software died years ago, now it's just a shell run by a bunch of shysters.
@@legros731found marty’s alt
@@misterhuman6469 you unmasked me excellent detective work Sherlock lol
But seriously I was wondering why they where that many Mick accounts arguing with each other
Mick this is called schizophrenia and the voice are just inside yours little head
no wonder you can't respect contract deadline that you signed
The Marty letter was also believable, because it could be summarized in brief and reported on as just "Mick Gordon took too long to complete the OST", and that's believable because people can easily accept an artist being a perfectionist, and Gordon has a history of barely making deadlines (namely with his work on Killer Instinct, this is a documented anecdote from him). I'm sure Marty knew that when he made the post.
And there is still a huge difference between “barely making a deadline” and “not making a deadline”. All that really matters is making it, and if you do, that is professional and timely of you regardless of if you were stressing to get to it.
I'm sure there's some manipulated truth to a lot of what Marty says. It just lacks so much context and seems super biased. He really seemed to be out of touch with Mick's work as a whole- far from being able to say anything with any real authority.
@@gothicanimeangel96 I concur, that's an all or none philosophy on behalf of the top brass. You'll meet a ton of those in the business world
So because 5 hours worth of content was required and only 4.8 was submitted, it somehow invalidates the value of it's contribution to the actual project. This is because 'managers' have no concept of artistic credibility only figures and projections
The idea that you can be sued because the quality would be noticable on a soundtrack is smack of reptilian genetics. There is no breathing room for the human component to contributing to ones career
Mick is right, you ought to vet your clients thoroughly.
@@BrainDancer you could say the exact same for Mick version
@@legros731 Mick just seems to have a lot more specifically to point to
I love how Doom is a franchise where people say "An album that comes with a free game" to it's recent games because of Mick's work but then he gets this treatment.
Honestly I think that's why he was treated the way he was
@@wonderoushistoryofclassicf9193as a complete casual, this seems like it checks out
@@wonderoushistoryofclassicf9193 Envy is a hideous thing. Shame Mick got the brunt of it from that douchebag Marty.
Micks music is great. But that quote seems kinda dumb.
I mean, have you heard things like Killer Instinct OST? It's exactly the same thing, an album that comes with a free fighting game.
As someone who’s worked in this industry for nearly two decades, sadly this is common as hell.
Well as someone who has no arms and legs and can't even play video games. Can you scratch my nose? It's itchy
I really hope more people see this. I had no idea this was even a thing! Any freelancer doing work that they love don’t deserve to be treated like this. If it’s something they love, they’ll do it for their own price. Creators aren’t always the issue, sometimes it’s the commissioner that is the issue and the disconnect between the two.
I have no idea how Mick stood by so long with this. He is a legend. He is the reason we got Casey Edwards for DMCV. He put Omegasparxxx into KI. He seems so chill, and is a music philosopher.
Just another reminder that there are better than myself, perhaps.
Probably because he was trying to be professional and handle things behind the scenes instead of appealing to the mob like an immature sociopath.
@@ShiningDarknes I mean, fair.
@@ShiningDarknes helena Taylor moment
Mick is also probably the primary reason that Industrial Metal is in vogue again. That hasn't been the case since probably the early 2000s, and it's a welcome change.
What's the connection between Mick and Casey Edwards doing DMC5?
This really looked like Marty had personal animosity towards Mick. Otherwise cotract negotiations should have started in November at the very least since Marty would not have to worry about "distracting" Mick from working on the score at that point. As for Chad Mossholder, it still baffles me how he could screw up the OST so badly despite having so many months to work on it. It make me wonder if he dumped the work on an intern and then tried to take credit.
Maybe Marty and Chad are friends and Chad asked for his moment to shine to Marty and he accepted bcs that's what friends do, but Zenimax wanted Mick in the project, so Marty was actively screwing everything so Mick would quit and give the chance to Chad.
Chad yesterday deleted his Tweeter account... cause Elon Musk blablabla fascist blablabla
Suuuure :D the little rat...
@@elecman748 all while using Mick's music. Chad led good SFX for the game, but he's no music maker.
@Sasha Lemay Marty doesn’t wear suits, but pretty sure he's also responsible.
Instead of fighting back against the MBAs that rushed the launch, he scapegoated every problem to "Mick bad" & ruined his name.
@@TheRibbonRed I think if Mick sued Marty for breaking his reputation he would win that easy.
Phenomenal work on this video. Coming back to this again after more Dark Ages footage dropped, since it's baffling to see the amount of people who seemingly forgot any of this happened.
They also said in a recent Dark Ages video they hired the "team" at Finishing move to do the soundtrack for it. aka multiple people to replace ONE guy.
Def not buying another Doom game moving forward
What bothers me the most about this situation is how borderline unprofessional and cruel Marty is to Mick, to an almost... idk hateful degree that can only really be described as pure envy. It's well established that Mick Gordon is well liked by people (inside and outside the gaming industry) for his professionalism, yet even after the success of DOOM 2016's soundtrack that Marty still treated Mick Gordon like trash for the next project. It really speaks a lot about Marty's insecurities as a human being. Even if they are his insecurities, there is no excuse for it and he's hurting other people and himself by doing this!
Another thing that does bother me is the whole trophy thing, like. i cannot describe how flabbergasted i am with high ups keeping the awards that are credited to Mick Gordon. It's comparable to someone copying your art and resposting it elsewhere without crediting the original artist who put time and effort into that work.
I won't be surprised if Mick Gordon's statement encourages any former co-workers or workers in the game industry (or any industry) to come forward with their own horror stories or allegations against the former companies they worked for or worked in.
On a more positive note, despite all of this terribleness Mick has experienced, he has been approach by big metal core/heavy rock bands to work on some projects! He's already worked with Bring Me the Horizon's Post Human: Survival Horror, and recently this year he worked with Motionless in White for their album 'Scoring the End of the World'. I recommend people check those albums out they are very much worth your time :)
Borderline?
And now, a year later, the trailer for Doom: The Dark Ages just dropped. It looks and sounds amazing but I can't forget that id slandered and nearly blacklisted one of the best game audio producers of our time. id has a year to issue a retraction and/or apology to Mick Gordon.
(Edit: 1.2K likes?! Thanks to everyone that took the time to read and comment!)
I'd say its the executive decision makers at iD that we should aim that at, not the entire studio itself. They're still passionate people working there, but its ego trippers like Marty that need a good comeuppance.
Marty needs to be fired.
I can already see Marty acting like nothing happened what a POS
Sad for us
Wish Mick made the soundtrack for the new game
This might be the most press the Mick Gordon situation is getting. I hope we can still get the Doom Eternal ost one day but on his terms.
We cannot disregard when he was told that they didn't like many of his tracks, and they were using them in the game. This cannot be excused as an error of any kind, every detail seems deliberate.
Imagine being an artist and your current project is your "baby". That's why he wanted another go at the OST. They butchered his baby so he rightfully wanted to fix it. To reflect his abilities as a creator, instead of his reputation continuing to get smashed into the dirt.
This video just shows that Mick Gordon is one of the biggest treasure of the ENTIRE gaming world.
He faced unimaginable shit and still pushed to made the game better
He's a fuckin trooper. He was going through all that horrible toxic bullshit and STILL delivered not just great music, but *more* music than what he did for 2016. It's crazy that Eternal has quality music at all after all the stress and rushing. He stuck it out and deserves every reward he can get for it.
This is one of the most disgusting forms of abuse I’ve seen of an free lance artist I’ve ever seen. How can this be allowed why do managers and companies for that matter feel the need to treat someone like this, they gain nothing from it
You're seeing corporations as an entity, in reality there's no entity, there's just little individual, human factors that can be easily swayed by capital or threat.
Humans are horrible, and one having more power than others is always a recipe for disgusting displays of bureaucracy solely to fuck with someone else.
Cue this situation spelt because a head honcho got offended a single guy stood to his capricious lifestyle.
Because money, greed, and power. Just look at Marty, he seemed off from the start. Hugo Martin was the likable guy and Marty was just kinda there.
You hate 1 in 23 people for no reason
@@gsaad464 Bad bait.
Do not buy Doom: The Dark Ages until Marty Stratton resigns from id.
I remember being in a general video game news subreddit that the open letter was cross-posted to. Even at the time, it rubbed me the wrong way how many people were SCARILY ready to accept the word of a video game exec over the freelance artist, easily assuming Mick was just some talented but toxic / hard to work with musician. The irony is that this subreddit typically prided itself on being pro worker, especially for game devs. Needless to say, I'm no longer in that subreddit.
The naïve and gullible love to believe their own lies as much as they believe others'. They just wont ever lift a finger to help any of the workers they "support"
take the final step and leave that cesspool of a website altogether, your mental health will improve tenfold
Lol reddit moment
reddit users are pretty much NPCs lol
The fact that Marty Stratton was such a blatant, extravagant liar was what really got to me. He seemed to have had a personal vendetta against Mick and went to extreme lengths to pursue it. I mean, what a piece of work.
Well done homie. As someone who was attached to ZM group not that long ago, I can tell you that:
1. Z Execs and their legal arm are no joke on how shrewd they are.
2. MS and Adam "SE" P. (Initials cuz I did signed a contract before leaving) are hella childish and entitled AF, but then again, they learnt to harness that behaviour from the boss (TH) before he left id.
3. Chad's move of attaching his name to the OST despite not composing any music and doing a sh*t job of it, is very much indicative of a work culture where ego/rank/prestige (and who you cuddle up to) is more important than ethics and skill. That kind of behavior didn't start with Chad but two Sound Directors ago. While Carmack was still in the building (but was plotting for his way out)
4. While it wasn't the fault of all id employees, I fault many of them because sound design is a crucial part of the (DOOM) gameplay and NOBODY (That we know of, so far) chose to stand up to MS (While he's Studio Director, the chain of command within id allows for him to be overridden/overruled), so they knew. (Granted, it's likely this was discussed internally and (like me) were given a reinforced/enhanced NDA to sign or be severed, so they chose to keep quiet and protect their jobs)
5. Now that there is egg on their face, there is no way ZM will back down or stop protecting MS. The best possible outcome is that they'll remain quiet (after their latest statement) and then either stall with their "evidence" (That they're scrambling to gather) or threaten legal flex and MAYBE clap back (Cuz their legal coffers are hella deep), but it'll be a nothing 🍔.
6. ZM's Sr. VPs of PR and MKTG (Not Bethesda's Pete Hines) have already stepped in and outlined the reputational damage caused by MS, however, IMO he'll still be around for upcoming titles, but will no longer be public-facing. ZM staff contracts for execs (Such as MS) are 4-5 Yrs. deep in length and it's more cost effective to shuffle MS around and "weather the storm" than to sever his contract or get involved in legal recourse for wrongful termination.
#CarryOn.
So you are saying we shoot take him out another way? Gotcha!
@@gtrslinger flaming bags of dog poop on the doorstep daily, to start.
@Malice with how easy it is on Social to BS around and "hide behind the keyboard" I don't blame you for taking everything I said with a giant grain of salt or not believing me, but I'm at peace with my time at ZM and it was an enormous source of pride to call some of the ZM staff I rallied with fellow peers. I saw id getting acquired, Rage (less than stellar launch), Carmack leaving, Doom getting rebuilt, the whole FB/Occulus beef, and selling to Papa Phil... But again, I'm just some random dude, so I don't blame you. :) - NGL, it sucks because the studio has A LOT of amazingly talented, passionate people, but you can see how the culture changed as people began to move up the ladder and ZM "priming" id to make it as financially efficient to make it as attractive as possible, so their IP valuation wouldn't degrade during the sale. I know at the end of the day is Biz, but yeah, being beholden to a cutthroat holdings company will tarnish the love/ideals you had about the industry before going in. Anyway, Legal takes their holidays VERY seriously so I doubt we'll hear anything from id/Bethesda until Q1 2023, but I do hope (albeit slim) they acknowledge their f*ck-up, make right by Mick, and learn from their mistake, making hard strides to earn their place as pro-consumer, creative pillars of industry instead of a bunch of entitled assh*les. #CarryOn.
@@EdwardVGrimm "Studio has a lot of talented people" that's how it always is isn't it, gamedev attracts such people; and usually crushes their soul. I've been hesitant to directly enter this workforce myself, but i did work on an engine that shipped a number of largely shovelware games in the past.
@@SianaGearz Kudos to you for doing Engine Dev work. That's A WHOLE another beast of work, so props to ya. :)
I wasn't a Creative or a Dev during my time working there, but we were part of the team tasked to have other studios under the ZM/Bethesda umbrella to either "embrace" (more like push/ultimatum if I'm honest) the Creation Engine which so many refused or shift around resources for id to build upon id Tech 4 to IT5 (Since 4 was the last engine Carmack did before leaving and only like 4 people in a team of 60ish -At the time - knew all the ins and outs necessary to make it better)
Being a freelancer is very tough. Mick's story is harrowing but not unusual. Smaller scale, this happens all the time and as a freelancer it behooves you to get a contract signed on paper even if you have to send mail back and forth. Physical evidence is the only evidence that matters. Digital evidence works but isn't nearly as good as pen on paper.
Moral of the story, if your potential client doesn't want to sign a contract, don't waste your or their time. Verbal agreements are not agreements at all.
I've done work Pro Bono and still get disrespected. Get a contract with a minimum non-refundable deposit. No exceptions. If the client is genuine and wants to move forwards in good faith, it shouldn't be a problem. "Sign here and send it back with a check." No exceptions!
I remember when Mick aired the dirt a few months ago and I’ll never forget how iD responded by retweeting Mick’s post and suggesting that it was irresponsible of him to post what he posted because he was subjecting their developers to harassment and damaging their reputations. It was a fucking abysmal and nihilistic attempt to save face by once again trying to vilify Mick, and my anger was only tempered by the fact that not only did most of the commenters see through iiD’s bullshit, but Mick himself retweeted iD’s post saying that the development team were professional and that he had no issues with them nor wanted anyone to go after any of the devs, he felt only Marty deserved to cop the flak
I almost feel slimy for paying for D:E and the DLC's after learning this.
Read MG's entire article and I'm disheartened to learn that such a talented composer was treated with all of this abuse.
When I look good for pirating it, something is horribly wrong
Get a refund
I had an absolute blast with Doom 2016, yet I have Doom Eternal sitting installed on SSD, unfinished to this day. I started a playthrough twice but never played past the first levels.
It's as if I somehow knew something was off. (Yes, I know, that's quite impossible really, but I like the thought anyway.) That SSD is soon going to see some extra free space though. I don't feel like giving DE another attempt anytime soon.
Same, I'm so pissed
Pirate it, then.
Even if you already have it, pirate it on moral principle.
I dismissed the open letter. 1) he created the 12 tracks, marty's claim didn't make sense that he wasnt able to produce on time etc. 2) diva behavior seems out of character, from his talk about the process, putting together a metal chior etc. he seem very passionate. I chalked it up as miscommunication and hoping it was just covid crunch...
If a legend like Mick Gordon gets treated like this, I don’t wanna know the ordeals freelancers with smaller names have to go through.
Freelancers are treated like prostitutes or worse. It's atrocious. I freelanced twice and never did again. Whether it's hundreds of thousands of dollars or 50 dollars, people get drunk on the power they have over freelancers and take their miserable lives out on them.
That's the thing: You do. Not because it's pleasant, but the smaller guys deserve justice and respect too. We all started somewhere.
@@Sinyaothis. We need to get more people outraged about this. Freelancers need to be seen and protected
Exactly the same thing happens, it just happens to those smaller freelancers
Always remember to record ALL communications with your clients. It's so fucking important.
Greatly under-valued comment. So important, document EVERYTHING.
Nothing more to say to this, honestly. Don't let 'em write history a different way than you remembered it!
Unfortunately in some states it is illegal to record without the consent of both parties and in many states while it may be legal it still may not be used in court.
@@christopherjohnson2171 Sounds malicious.
Wrong. Record all correspondence in relation to your business in general.
Ngl I was always a bit iffy about Marty, there was just something off about him to me compared to any of the other ID devs so I guess I was on to something. Really sad so see them treat a musical genius like Mick like this, the man is arguably responsible for at least half of the success the recent games have had. Even people who don't play the games know about the soundtrack being absolute god-tier.
I don't understand why people ever do this, it would have been so much easier to have Mick on board and treat him well. AAA industry is just so full of stupid people.
As a former freelancer… NEVER EVER WORK WITHOUT A CONTRACT. And that contract has to nail down exactly what is in or out of scope, what you will be paid for, when you will be paid, etc. I suspect nothing will happen to Marty and Mick will never be compensated… but I really hope other freelancers (particularly in the video game industry) will learn from this tragic story.
jesper kyd knows this very well
The thing is that most jobs for freelancers, specially new freelancers, don't offer contracts, and laws are progresively making it worse. Specially now with a.i. look at julian casablancas, he used an artificial generated image for his last album cover instead of paying a freelance artist, and money wasn't an issue because casablancas is rich as shit. So yeah, the future of freelancing looks absurdly bleak
@vex8ion196 or new enterprices. I'm from argentina, apparently someone developed a trading card game like magic the gathering, and they use a.i. for the artwork. And they are super transparent about it, they do aim to eventualy hire real artists for special artwork but they explicitly state that a.i. will always be part of their model because it's just so much cheaper. This a fucking TCG bro, you know how much drawings are involved in those? Stacks upon stacks of drawings, that's a whole industry down the drain. It's fucking over.
will do thanks
@@spetsnaz4537 What happened to Jesper Kyd?
what annoys me the most in all of this is how the gaming "community" always needs try to fix things by issuing death threats to whoever they believe is in the wrong
There was research about similar topics. Basically hearing the "bad news" over and over again its worse that being near or victim for short time. For example Boston marathon participants was more ok (not the one who was shoot at but near ones) than the people who was hearing about it for 6 hours from the news.
I think human psychis is not build for masive income of negative information for long time.
Meaningless threats made by wimps
I didn't threaten to kill anyone but I told Marty to go stick his dick in a paper shredder on my steam review so.. it got banned unfortunately after a few weeks
Are you simping for the suits?
seriously?
wtf is wrong with you?
@@justinmelkert2899 Mick also received threats and harassment.
Damn, I feel so bad for Mick. And I was one of the morons who believed in Martys open letter. I hope Mick Gordon recovers from this and continues to create awesome soundtracks :)
Never ever believe a corporate shell. Ever
Problem with that is, until Mick's reputation is cleared up by getting a public statement from Marty he might find it difficult to find professional work.
Well, Mick produced Post Human Survival Horror by Bring Me The Horizon, and you can tell his influence by just taking a listen to it.
I hope he can keep on delivering good music in or out of Doom.
You are a fucking NPC, you ARE the problem with the world today. A human dog.
I believed the letter too until I heard the other side of the story
This serves as a good reminder to have copies of EVERYTHING just in case anything were to belly up in a situation
this channel is criminally underrated, you are def going to explode, mark my words
Noted lol
If you’re going to fuck over a team member, you better not try to fuck them over a masterpiece. The masterpiece will win. Mick bit his tongue, let the OST do the talking for him and then, when all anyone could hear is BFG division and the only thing they fear is you, that’s when he told his half of the story.
Argent Metal. The guy invented a genre out of this work. You’re not going to outlast that kind of talent. Mick gave id 2.5 years to make some kind of amends. More than enough time. Now comes payback.
Working in the video game industry should be everyone's dream, but it just sounds like a goddam nightmare...
One word: Fortnite. How giant money destroyed the other studio, Epic Games.
Rule of thumb: avoid corporations who are dedicated to increasing shareholder value. Only work with studios whose primary goal is making good games. Indie studios, large independents who arent publicly traded, and those with a good reputation
Working on the AAA industry
Fixed it
Bosses and corporations love industries where people are driven by passion for their craft because that means they can manipulate their workers more easily. The games industry needs to be unionized because this crap is unacceptable
They don't care about you remember that always
What I have learned from music and trying to work in it, is the high entitlement narcissist's are at every corner. You are something for them to discover and exploit. So glad Mick is a real pro and gave us the courtside seats as to how to deal with these guys. It sucks he's dealt with it to this level but now we can all see, you have to protect yourself. You shouldn't even be talking to the developers, if they are not working to the tee of the contract or being reasonable, then the attorneys can settle it before we get to slandering each other on reddit.
can't wait for fans to conveniently forget all this when DOOM the Dark Ages drops.
Dude, I'll miss his music. It would be amazing to hear gordon's take on 'medieval' doom
Same thing with all the Blizzard mistreatment of their employees (including sexual assault accusations).
The newest Diablo sold tons of copies.
Unfortunately the majority of people don't care. They just want their new source of dopamine release.
Literally no one forgot, it was the first thing you heard about upon the release. People just moved on because this happened a year ago
@@darkshat3077 Basically the same thing, putting the issue inside a Matters Not Box
Mick did say himself to keep supporting the devs and employees despite what Marty did to him. They still do quality work and had no hand in his mistreatment. I think the only way to make Marty feel any heat would be for Mick to pursue him legally.
So basically, Mick Gordon was the Doomslayer the entire time... Slaying Marty's demons throughout Hell.
A big part of the reason why it's so easy to believe Marty's open letter is because of the sheer quality if Mick's work on the first Doom OST. He made such a banger soundtrack that it's clear to all of us outside the industry that Mick is the golden egg-laying goose for iD. There's no way in hell iD and Bethesda is gonna fuck him over, they wouldn't dare... Right? And lo and behold, corporate greed strikes yet again.
Not even sure this is corporate greed so much as just an extreme narcissist on a power trip. There were several moments in the saga where the most profitable thing to do would have been to bury the hatchet, and yet still they doubled-down on lies.
There's an old saying, "every accusation is a confession." Seldom has it rung more true than Marty Stratton's accusations against Mick Gordon. id, Bethesda, and Zenimax aren't seeing a red cent of mine until I find a public apology for how they've mistreated Mick here. The fact that, at any point, Mick went 11 months without being paid - nearly a year - should be criminal. Utterly criminal.
I have held a personal boycott against Bethesda and Zenimax after the umpteenth re-release of Skyrim and the paid mods debacle, not to mention numerous abuses of their playerbases and the communities those playerbases have formed. This has just further justified my decision.
As a graphic design freelancer, I really feel for Mick. Getting mistreated by clients after you’ve put in so much hard work and time for them is honestly one of the most soul crushing and stressful scenarios, but this is to a whole new level. I got really stressed out after my most recent client who’s refused to pay me for the last 3 months, but I couldn’t even begin to imagine how it would feel to go through what Mick is going through with iD and Bethesda. Good on him though to stay professional through all this, really shows the strength of his character
Everyone should listen to micks killer instinct ost's. it gets completely overshadowed by his doom soundtrack despite being way better.
I really love his Prey soundtrack. The Wolf ost is really great as well. Guy just makes music perfect for the game, every time.
@@GangsterFrankensteinComputer the prey sound track is a bop
The Hisako theme is by far my favorite.
He did KI? explains why music is so dope
I'm glad you're spreading this information - it's imperative people do, as this entire story is so wretched that it seems like something out of fiction, and Mick and Marty both deserve justice relative to their roles in this story.
Yeah i dont understand what Bethesda is thinking. Mick Gordon was single handedly carrying the modern doom IP. HE WAS DOOM. Now without him, I couldn't care less about any fuckin new 'doom' game. Mick Gordon inspired me to play guitar and to get doom (2016). I owe it to him to support his art rather than a overcalculated corporation. Thanks Bethesda. Thank you microsoft... for nothing.
I watched this video thinking this dude had like several million subscribers, looked at the sub count and only had 2 thousand. You are really underrated man, keep it up!
This shit is why we need unions.
Bosses will abuse us as much as they can if we let them do it
The unions don't fix the broken system, sadly. Workplaces should reflect the government they operate under. There is no excuse for dictatorial work hierarchies. We all know better. It's time for change.
Unfortunately it wouldn't help the situation in this case: unions are for employees, and Mick was not an employee, he was a contractor.
Contractors do, however, have their own union equivalent: the guild. (e.g. the Writer's Guild of America, the Screen Actors Guild, etc.)
no. i work for a union and all they do is take ~$50 from my paycheck every 2 weeks. they also use that money to fund campaigns for elections for a certaon party. i cant speak for unions in other countries, but fuck the teamsters union here in america (the largest union in america if im not mistaken)
Theres things like ASCAP but idk how they work specifically or if there is an equivalent in Australia where Mick is
@@IanWatson Note that in other countries, unions may also cover for contractors. Important to know since game dev is international.
I just read Mick's whole post, and wow. Just... wow.
It sounds like it's well past time for a lawsuit: For unpaid work, for making promises about Mick's work that they'd never given him a contract for, and for defamation.
This shit is absolutely unacceptable.
Full time employees get this treatment also, it's just how big businesses allow their leadership to rot and treat people like this.
Mick was watching me play killer instinct at some tournament near launch, didnt even know it was him, what a guy
this was a really well made and informative video about the subject, thanks for making it!
Excellent video, thank you. I hope more and more RUclipsrs will shed light on this. ID cannot get away with how they treated Mick Gordon.
Started DOOM Eternal recently and definitely noticed the drop in quality for the soundtrack. I recalled the drama on the topic a while back while playing through the main campaign. This video surfaced onto my feed at the right time! :)
I wish this never happened. Majority of the reason I play DOOM is because of the amazing soundtrack, so if the successor doesn’t meet the greatness of Mick’s music, I fear I’m not going to play another DOOM game. This is very sad, and I hope that Mick gets apologies from all of those who criticized him for something he didn’t do. Mick is a great artist, and I hope he composes for the next game.
Thankfully Mick is still working in the industry (hopefully that respect him). The upcoming game Atomic Heart is shaping up to be one hell of a ride, in both gameplay AND sound. Mick is composing for that game, see the trailers for the game seriously it's so exciting. He's also making the soundtrack for the upcoming game ROUTINE, there's a trailer for that one too. What we've heard from Atomic Heart so far has actual metal guitar riffs in it, along with Mick's signature style of electronic brain candy. He might be done with Doom, but he's definitely not done with making banger soundtracks for games. As for Doom, David Levy and Andrew Hulshult took the helm for making the soundtrack in the DLC The Ancient God's 1 & 2. While it definitely sounded different, there's a huge amount of potential in those two and both are making their own spin on Mick's style. Check out Hulshult's remake of the Doom 1 soundtrack "IDKFA". It's a hell of a good listen ;)
Basically, Mick's future isn't dead, and Doom will probably have an awesome soundtrack again.
The only reason I bought doom 2016 is exactly for the original music.
the soundtrack in the dlc us pretty good at least, but definitely not as good as Mick’s
The only thing you should fear, is him.
Hulshult def seems to be the new Doom composer going forward, and if I had to pick a dude that wasn’t Mick it’d be him. Unfortunately David Levy isn’t working on the next game alongside him, which is a shame as he made some of my favorite DLC tracks for TAG.
I will never forgive Marty Stratton for this, i remember the whole thing from start to finish, Micks post was bittersweet, confirmation he didnt fuck up, but also that he wouldnt work with ID again until Marty is gone.
Stratton is the real Betrayer. Not Valen.
I like how Mick separated the game and most of the people who worked on it from his specific grievances. In these organizations, passing the buck to an outside contractor can be an easy way to avoid accountability.
I wish Mick all the best and I hope he never has to tolerate abuse like this again. He so clearly cares deeply about making an incredible soundstrack for something he loves. It's sickening to see that drive and talent so callously exploited. I worry for whoever takes the mantle for the Dark Ages OST, and I hope they're able to defend themselves from predatory behavior like this. We want more great experiences from this new entry in the series, but no one deserves to suffer this much to make it happen.
Mick MADE doom 2016 as awesome as it is. It’s literally criminal that they wouldn’t make him a top priority in the development of this game.
Literally criminal? What kind of crime would it be, and in what jurisdiction?
@@JD_Volt So some dumbass doesn't know what literally means, and you don't know what shill means. Idiots of a feather...
@@RichoRosai Mistreatment (and being purposefully denied pay for *eleven months* ) ?
@@Dr.Oofers Yeah, I'm on team Mick. So how am I a shill?
@@RichoRosai Why are you accusing me of calling you a shill?
Is this bait?
I hope Mick can recover from the disaster that was working on DOOM Eternal, he deserves all the best.
Yeah, it would be nice if there was a way to send Mick money directly. I mean if I hadn't known all this, I would have had no problems buying the OST and iD making a profit.
After this I prefer Mick actually gets compensated for tolerating as much as he did, and preferably iD/Bethesda maybe not profiting from exploiting Mick.
In this case I would definitely not buy the OST via channels where iD would reap the profits , but instead send Mick the 100% of the price of that OST directly somehow (and be fine with not being able to listen to the music).
If I read Mick Gordon's personality correctly, he will have more work than ever.
If he's as humble as I think he is, he will be willing to work for lower fees not only to keep himself occupied but because he truly thinks his value was diminished (which is not true btw).
Fair people might have bad moments but they'll be fine because they're good workers.
I don’t think QuakeCon 2024 will have an excited crowd as usual, but an angry mob.
Among other things, Marty decided to STEAL Mick's music.
great video, i always wondered what happened, only a few years late! Thanks for making this
I'm so sorry for Mick, the quality was notably lower and many of us were curious about that but I would have never expected it to be this horrendous. I hope there is closure to be had on his side.
I don't believe that Chad is sound or music anything. They just took a random guy and slapped a title on him for show.
I am glad that I haven't yet bought eternal. Looks like I'm gonna slap on an eye patch and raise the jolly rodger for this one.
Music hits me right in the feels hard, and metal hits double as hard for me, it was the first music genre I truly loved. Doom 2016's music was a beautiful homage to another childhood favorite of mine, DOOM. He made that game what it is, and made my skin tingle with goosebumps. This mistreatment is inexcusable.
I never believed that "open letter". One listen to the mix/master quality of the soundtrack made it crystal clear that Mick didn't make it. It was also VERY unlike him to act even a fraction as unprofessional as he was accused of acting. Lastly, and most importantly, Marty gave literally no evidence for anything that he claimed. Not one iota.
I had no idea they did Mick THAT dirty dude what the heck and it sucks that he won’t work on DOOM:DA soundtrack because of the mistreatment but at least we have his work in 2016 and Eternal
Im very glad Mick is finally speaking on this. I never really believed that "open letter" given Mick's history of quality and it's good to see the shit hit the fan to clean his name.