alicent could not stop the dance of the dragons anymore at this point even if she wanted to. she could have stopped her fathers plan to usurp the throne if she didnt misunderstood viserys. even rhaenyra after he son was killed by aemond still didnt want to go to full out war and use the dragons. but then daemon did what he did and now there is no turning back. rhaenyra now knows her father didnt change his mind and knows she has his blessing to get her throne by any means and she will send her dragons to war now
@@calliefinck6275 luke should've been punished but his death wasn't deserved, especially since it was an accident. he never meant to permanently mutilate aemond and ironically, I think he was the only one in that fight who just acted out of panic to protect his family, not out of anger or hatred. and rhaenyra is indeed spoiled, but that alone doesn't justify stealing the iron throne from her, plus, she matured as she grew unlike aegon who's still like old him.
@@calliefinck6275 Aemond paid the price of an eye for claiming a dragon he had no right over (hence why he did it in the cover of the night) and he on top of that started a fight by insulting Rhaena on top of disrespecting her mother who just passed away. Really a small price to pay for such a mighty dragon (even if there wasn't insults).
Alicent: “You’ve no army.” Rhaenyra: “I have the Velaryon fleet, the support of the Starks, Knights of the Vale, the Blackwoods and more than a dozen other noble houses, plus thirteen dragons but go on.”
and Aegon has Lannisport, The support of the Stormlands, the support of Oldtown, King's landing, House Bracket, a dozen of other noble houses, plus a handful of dragons, including Vhagar.
@@Wordlifematt at this point in war the greens has more military advantage and all the wealth , Gold and treasury of The Lannisters and The Hightowers . Lannisport , Oldtown and KL are the three biggest wealthiest cities in westrose and it all under the Greens control.
13 dragons? Let’s see - With Arrax dead at this point, we have Meleys, Syrax, Vermax, Moondancer, Caraxes, Tyraxes, Vermithor, Silverwing, Seasmoke, Sheepstealer and Stormcloud. Believe Morning was born after the war. Who did I miss?
I think Aliscent's daughter knew. That's why she said "I forgive you" earlier in the episode. It surprised Aliscent as she didn't know she was guilty of anything, apart from sleeping with a knight, which her daughter clearly doesn't care about. But she started the chain of events that got her nephew killed with her mistake.
No i think it was because Helaena figured out why her mom was trying so much to confess to someone (her father) about her “sin”, she was doing it with Cole, so he was too busy to do his job of protecting the royal children and queen, which then gave Blood and Cheese the chance to sneak in the castle and assassinate her grandson and endanger Helaena, she wanted someone to hear her confession and forgive her, since Alicent thought that it was her fault by extension and it was tearing her apart inside, Helaena sensed this and skipped all the bullsh*t of how she was more concerned for her despite Helaena showing how she adjusted to it remarkably well and gave her mother some comfort by saying she already forgave and no longer blamed her for her son’s death…..🤔👌🐲
If you consider that both places belong to the same family, it’s not ridiculous. The Red Keep and Dragonstone were meant to keep strangers out, not people who had grown up in them their whole lives. These people had also never had a civil war like this, before. Their security is on the job training and, unfortunately, they’re not doing so well at this point.
@@paytonlarson3709 Doesn't matter. There are still spies working for the hand, the whisperer etc. In Game of Thrones, season 1 - catelyn couldn't even make it to Kings Landing without a spy seeing her and informing Varys and Littlefinger. The fact 3 different characters have managed to get into areas they realistically shouldn't have, for the past 3 episodes, is getting tireing and unimaginative.
Just to inform you... This is a TV show. Not fact. I don't know what age you are but... TV shows aren't real, they're fictional. Don't try to force real world standards onto a fictional, fantasy TV show about middle earth
But one thing I find admirable that she even after her son's death tried to find a peaceful way...war should never be wanted until the last end a ruler should also know that war brings destruction to people...
Otto and the councel would put Aegon on the throne regardless , Alicent has no power before and not now after Aegon became king and Aemond in the picture.
Rhaenyra was foolish in going into King’s Landing alone to talk to Alicent, but she was even more foolish to say that Viserys loved Alicent when he was alive. He did not love her at all, as he was more so in love with Aemma. It was always Aemma Arryn who won his heart. He only married Alicent because he was expected to remarry.
Alicent refuses to admit she messed up and caused this war. Or the fact she wanted to usurp the throne anyway and all this is her fault. Hers and her families. But by the end, she will realize her mistake. Unfortunately the realm will bleed for her foolishness and her families treason
I think she realizes she messed up but at this point, she’s dug herself into a hole she can’t get out of now. Everyone else is gung ho on a war happening and it’s not like she can say “Hey Aegon, I messed up. You’re not the true heir to the throne. Lay down your swords and surrender to the rightful queen.” No one will listen to her if she says that. The pieces are already in place and no one can control what happens now.
Alicent's mistake was inconsequential. The Small Council already had a plot in effect to put Aegon II on the throne before Viserys ever told Alicent about his vision
We already know that aegon ii would have been elected by the people- Rhaenyra is simply power-hungry. It's unfair to blame everything of the greens when they'd be able to peacefully win if rhaenyra simply did not want for power.
@@typical_snowflake The Conqueror's dream is a secret known exclussively by king/heir. Based on what Viserys said, anyone but Viserys and Rhaenyra themselves would assume he meant Aegon II.
The tragedy is that even if Alicent tried to undo the damage, it's too late, the boulder has already started rolling. One thing i always think about is, if Rhaenyra had succeeded upon Viserys' death, would she have ultimately allowed Aegon, Aemond, etc, to live?
Yes she would have have allowed them to live those are her brothers of course she would Rhaenyra was very nurturing she didn’t want conflict at all she would have embraced her brothers for sure. Otto Hightower on the other hand would of been dead
Doubt it. People would've plotted to assassinate her bastards and potentially herself and her other children in favour of her brothers at some point. The only way she could ensure that wouldn't be an issue anymore is by removing the competition. It might take some time, but she would cave eventually.
Rhaenyra: The tresspass was not mine. Yet Alicent knows the blacks had a hand. Blood confessed he was sent by Daemon Targaryen. That makes Alicent think that Rhaenyra is a liar since Daemon is her husband.
I dont think alicent thinks rhaenyra is a liar. seemed like she understands just like how she had no part in rhaenyra’s son’s death, rhaenyra had no part in her grandson’s death.
Here is a question. What would you have you said if alicent had changed Vesris,s last words. You would have said it wasn't a mistake because if alicent really didn't know. She would have lied so rhaenyra would think Vesris did change his mind . Now that she told rhaenyra what Vesris really said you still say alicent didn't make a mistake
@@Ahuizotl_Yolotlobviously. Just look at what the oligarchy has done to enslave humanity through our souls minds and money. Men need to stand up as well, but too much estrogen
Where that you get this from? They are trying to stop a WAR.. Also you don't have to blindly support ur children.. You should try to bring them on right path.. 🙄🤔
@percyweasley9301 well, for one thing, you really are wrong. Your take only applies to the beginning of this secret meeting - so long as the aversion of war is on the table this secret meeting makes sense. Once it's abundantly clear that no peaceful resolution will happen, Alicent is utterly stupid to not shout for her guards once she has put some distance between her and Rhaenyra. Any practical person would have done that, honor be damned. You can avert a war and take the head off the other claimant to the throne, after which the only remaining option for the Blacks will not able to win enough banners to his cause owing to his clear bastardy. This is not about blindly supporting your children either, but doing an effective administrator's duty to the realm. Once peace and compromise are off the table, the next best option has to be killing one person to end the war. If you've seen the trailer for the next episode, Rhaenyra is also clearly now in agreement that peace is off the table. So Alicent literally Rhaenyra go on account of them once being friends. Duty to the realm supercedes one's desire to nurture her child into a virtuous man or personal honor... even Jon Snow would agree to that given how he took out Daenerys to in the least honorable way possible to avert more bloodshed. So, totally understandable decision by Alicent but also totally idiotic
Honestly, you aren’t exactly the smartest when it comes to literacy. You’ve literally had to be spoon fed information on even the most *simplest* of scenes since you keep saying “it’s getting worse, it’s getting worse!”
Why because she made a mistake. If alicent had lied you would have said she knew it wasn't a mistake. Now that she told the truth and was clearly shocked you still say she knew it wasn't a mistake
@@aishahamma334 Alicent had no business usurping Rhaenyra on some mumbled words from a sickly man on his deathbed. All the nobles had already sworn oaths to Rhaenyra and Viserys was constantly affirming her as heir. She was just looking for an excuse to place her son as king and gain more power.
@@MarioLopez-rn2bs If I was Alicent I would've secured the throne for Aegon simply to save my ownchildren. We all know Rhaenyra and Daemon would kill them eventually...
They should have spent 1-2 minutes hinting Rhaenyra had some contingency plan if Alicent decided to report her to the guards. That way I might have accepted this scene.
I wish Bran would travel back in time and tell Rhaerya about the promised prince jon snow, i bet you she would have give up on her claim right away and the war would be over in a fortnight. Btw absolutely hate this scene..this is like the dumbass trip to capture an undead all over again. In the book neither side cared about legitimacy… they just wanted to win. The fact Alicent allows her to leave unharmed goes against everything she is in the show and in the book. If she truly seeks peace like the show claims then kill/capturing Rhaerya is the best way to ensure thousands don’t die.
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alicent could not stop the dance of the dragons anymore at this point even if she wanted to. she could have stopped her fathers plan to usurp the throne if she didnt misunderstood viserys. even rhaenyra after he son was killed by aemond still didnt want to go to full out war and use the dragons. but then daemon did what he did and now there is no turning back. rhaenyra now knows her father didnt change his mind and knows she has his blessing to get her throne by any means and she will send her dragons to war now
Luke had it coming and rhaenyra was spoiled. Alicent wasn’t gonna let her walk after the way she acted all those years
@@calliefinck6275 your such a wierdo
@@calliefinck6275 luke should've been punished but his death wasn't deserved, especially since it was an accident. he never meant to permanently mutilate aemond and ironically, I think he was the only one in that fight who just acted out of panic to protect his family, not out of anger or hatred. and rhaenyra is indeed spoiled, but that alone doesn't justify stealing the iron throne from her, plus, she matured as she grew unlike aegon who's still like old him.
@@calliefinck6275 Aemond paid the price of an eye for claiming a dragon he had no right over (hence why he did it in the cover of the night) and he on top of that started a fight by insulting Rhaena on top of disrespecting her mother who just passed away.
Really a small price to pay for such a mighty dragon (even if there wasn't insults).
As they say you snooze you lose
Alicent: “You’ve no army.”
Rhaenyra: “I have the Velaryon fleet, the support of the Starks, Knights of the Vale, the Blackwoods and more than a dozen other noble houses, plus thirteen dragons but go on.”
and Aegon has Lannisport, The support of the Stormlands, the support of Oldtown, King's landing, House Bracket, a dozen of other noble houses, plus a handful of dragons, including Vhagar.
@@Wordlifematt at this point in war the greens has more military advantage and all the wealth , Gold and treasury of The Lannisters and The Hightowers . Lannisport , Oldtown and KL are the three biggest wealthiest cities in westrose and it all under the Greens control.
13 dragons? Let’s see - With Arrax dead at this point, we have Meleys, Syrax, Vermax, Moondancer, Caraxes, Tyraxes, Vermithor, Silverwing, Seasmoke, Sheepstealer and Stormcloud. Believe Morning was born after the war.
Who did I miss?
@@shobhitranawatSPOILER
Meleys is dead
And she lost her biggest one in day one so who’s going on now?
I think Aliscent's daughter knew. That's why she said "I forgive you" earlier in the episode. It surprised Aliscent as she didn't know she was guilty of anything, apart from sleeping with a knight, which her daughter clearly doesn't care about. But she started the chain of events that got her nephew killed with her mistake.
Real powerful foreshadowing.
No i think it was because Helaena figured out why her mom was trying so much to confess to someone (her father) about her “sin”, she was doing it with Cole, so he was too busy to do his job of protecting the royal children and queen, which then gave Blood and Cheese the chance to sneak in the castle and assassinate her grandson and endanger Helaena, she wanted someone to hear her confession and forgive her, since Alicent thought that it was her fault by extension and it was tearing her apart inside, Helaena sensed this and skipped all the bullsh*t of how she was more concerned for her despite Helaena showing how she adjusted to it remarkably well and gave her mother some comfort by saying she already forgave and no longer blamed her for her son’s death…..🤔👌🐲
I'm pretty sure it was because she was sleeping with Cole, when he was supposed to be guarding them.
I interpreted it as she forgave Alicent for sleeping with Criston that night. If they weren't busy hooking up Criston would have saved the kid
guys is not Alicent's fault that the dance started. The dance started when Aemond's eye was taken.
"You know what Aemond is." When even your mom knows you're a bit psycho.
I think hes more of a sociopath he would’ve been a good kid if his brother showed him love
Its kinda becoming a bit ridiculous now how a character can just sneak into kings landing / dragonstone and not get caught.
If you consider that both places belong to the same family, it’s not ridiculous. The Red Keep and Dragonstone were meant to keep strangers out, not people who had grown up in them their whole lives. These people had also never had a civil war like this, before. Their security is on the job training and, unfortunately, they’re not doing so well at this point.
Even in real life commoners very rarely knew what the royals looked like
@@paytonlarson3709 Doesn't matter. There are still spies working for the hand, the whisperer etc. In Game of Thrones, season 1 - catelyn couldn't even make it to Kings Landing without a spy seeing her and informing Varys and Littlefinger. The fact 3 different characters have managed to get into areas they realistically shouldn't have, for the past 3 episodes, is getting tireing and unimaginative.
Just to inform you... This is a TV show. Not fact. I don't know what age you are but... TV shows aren't real, they're fictional. Don't try to force real world standards onto a fictional, fantasy TV show about middle earth
@@Leleche What real world standard did I force? Basic common sense?
But one thing I find admirable that she even after her son's death tried to find a peaceful way...war should never be wanted until the last end a ruler should also know that war brings destruction to people...
"Alicent kinda forgot that Rhaenyra is a threat to her son's lives"
Yeah she kind of forgot
@@Oh-God-Of-All-Creation She forgot?! Seven hells she needs to stop the temptation of drinking!
Damn, Otto would've been able to play you like a fiddle
@@punkthatiscyber9091 Otto was still correct though, it would've become an issue at one point.
@@SimplymeSVEN18 Only if others encouraged them or if her brothers themselves got ideas
3:30 Alicent realized she misunderstood and is about to be responsible for the war.
Otto and the councel would put Aegon on the throne regardless , Alicent has no power before and not now after Aegon became king and Aemond in the picture.
Rhaenyra was foolish in going into King’s Landing alone to talk to Alicent, but she was even more foolish to say that Viserys loved Alicent when he was alive. He did not love her at all, as he was more so in love with Aemma. It was always Aemma Arryn who won his heart. He only married Alicent because he was expected to remarry.
She wasn't alone. She had a guard outside
Plus he never once chose alicent over rhaenyra. He even loved those spoiled bastards over his own children
and he kills her
That line was totally out of place.
What you're saying is dumb. Just because he never loved Alicent as much as he loved Aemma doesn't mean he didn't feel some love for Alicent
Alicent refuses to admit she messed up and caused this war. Or the fact she wanted to usurp the throne anyway and all this is her fault. Hers and her families.
But by the end, she will realize her mistake. Unfortunately the realm will bleed for her foolishness and her families treason
I think she realizes she messed up but at this point, she’s dug herself into a hole she can’t get out of now. Everyone else is gung ho on a war happening and it’s not like she can say “Hey Aegon, I messed up. You’re not the true heir to the throne. Lay down your swords and surrender to the rightful queen.” No one will listen to her if she says that. The pieces are already in place and no one can control what happens now.
@@garlantyrell6368 She doesn't have the power anymore, controlling her son Aegon and Aemond its no more.
Alicent's mistake was inconsequential. The Small Council already had a plot in effect to put Aegon II on the throne before Viserys ever told Alicent about his vision
@wll1500 yup alicent saying the king changed his mind only made it easier, but it would've happened regardless
We already know that aegon ii would have been elected by the people- Rhaenyra is simply power-hungry. It's unfair to blame everything of the greens when they'd be able to peacefully win if rhaenyra simply did not want for power.
Despite being more bookish than Rhaenyra, Alicent kind of forgot about Aegon the Conqueror.
She heard what she wanted to hear and went with that.
@@typical_snowflake The Conqueror's dream is a secret known exclussively by king/heir. Based on what Viserys said, anyone but Viserys and Rhaenyra themselves would assume he meant Aegon II.
Rhaenyra: my father loved you
😂😂😂😂
seriously? woopsie daisy, wrong aegon? lol
"The... the Conqueror...?"
YES, YOU GOOF
Alicent - no no, I don't believe you
Rhaenyra -....yes you do.
(rains of oldtown plays)
“Your legacy is a lie”
The tragedy is that even if Alicent tried to undo the damage, it's too late, the boulder has already started rolling.
One thing i always think about is, if Rhaenyra had succeeded upon Viserys' death, would she have ultimately allowed Aegon, Aemond, etc, to live?
Yes she would have have allowed them to live those are her brothers of course she would Rhaenyra was very nurturing she didn’t want conflict at all she would have embraced her brothers for sure. Otto Hightower on the other hand would of been dead
Doubt it. People would've plotted to assassinate her bastards and potentially herself and her other children in favour of her brothers at some point. The only way she could ensure that wouldn't be an issue anymore is by removing the competition. It might take some time, but she would cave eventually.
This kind of plays out like a sitcom.... Lol
For real lmao, "I've begun badly" 😂
These two basically have a divorce scene.
Song : The Truth- Tom Dabrowski
Rhaenyra: The tresspass was not mine.
Yet Alicent knows the blacks had a hand. Blood confessed he was sent by Daemon Targaryen. That makes Alicent think that Rhaenyra is a liar since Daemon is her husband.
I dont think alicent thinks rhaenyra is a liar. seemed like she understands just like how she had no part in rhaenyra’s son’s death, rhaenyra had no part in her grandson’s death.
Here is a question. What would you have you said if alicent had changed Vesris,s last words. You would have said it wasn't a mistake because if alicent really didn't know. She would have lied so rhaenyra would think Vesris did change his mind . Now that she told rhaenyra what Vesris really said you still say alicent didn't make a mistake
Yes, men are so eager to fight that conscription exists. Can't get enough of that sweet, sweet, horrifying battlefield.
Probably not most of the men, but definitely the ones in charge. The ones who are doing the conscripting.
@@pketr5 female politicians are warmongers like their male counterparts
@@pketr5
You mean the ones who don't fight?
Because I'm quite tired of "men like to go to war" nonsense.
It's a script. That's their reality. With dragons.
@@Ahuizotl_Yolotlobviously. Just look at what the oligarchy has done to enslave humanity through our souls minds and money.
Men need to stand up as well, but too much estrogen
Makes what Aemond did to his brother even more satisfying cause only then did Alicent realise she made a mistake by telling Rhaenyra “it’s too late”
Alicent loves Rhaeynra more than her own Children………………….. WTF is this
Where that you get this from? They are trying to stop a WAR.. Also you don't have to blindly support ur children.. You should try to bring them on right path.. 🙄🤔
@@percyweasley9301 Media literacy is at an all time low it would seem.
@@basicsimp8798 You are so intelligent, explain to me what was my mistake in understanding?
@percyweasley9301 well, for one thing, you really are wrong. Your take only applies to the beginning of this secret meeting - so long as the aversion of war is on the table this secret meeting makes sense. Once it's abundantly clear that no peaceful resolution will happen, Alicent is utterly stupid to not shout for her guards once she has put some distance between her and Rhaenyra. Any practical person would have done that, honor be damned. You can avert a war and take the head off the other claimant to the throne, after which the only remaining option for the Blacks will not able to win enough banners to his cause owing to his clear bastardy. This is not about blindly supporting your children either, but doing an effective administrator's duty to the realm. Once peace and compromise are off the table, the next best option has to be killing one person to end the war. If you've seen the trailer for the next episode, Rhaenyra is also clearly now in agreement that peace is off the table. So Alicent literally Rhaenyra go on account of them once being friends. Duty to the realm supercedes one's desire to nurture her child into a virtuous man or personal honor... even Jon Snow would agree to that given how he took out Daenerys to in the least honorable way possible to avert more bloodshed. So, totally understandable decision by Alicent but also totally idiotic
Honestly, you aren’t exactly the smartest when it comes to literacy.
You’ve literally had to be spoon fed information on even the most *simplest* of scenes since you keep saying “it’s getting worse, it’s getting worse!”
Seeing her in wimple are both funny and intriguing 😂😂
Now me personally im ending alicent with that dagger 🗡
Why because she made a mistake. If alicent had lied you would have said she knew it wasn't a mistake. Now that she told the truth and was clearly shocked you still say she knew it wasn't a mistake
@@aishahamma334 Alicent had no business usurping Rhaenyra on some mumbled words from a sickly man on his deathbed. All the nobles had already sworn oaths to Rhaenyra and Viserys was constantly affirming her as heir. She was just looking for an excuse to place her son as king and gain more power.
@@MarioLopez-rn2bsthe throne wouldve been usurped anyway even if alicent didnt hear anything lol, as otto said theve been planning this for time
@@MarioLopez-rn2bs If I was Alicent I would've secured the throne for Aegon simply to save my ownchildren. We all know Rhaenyra and Daemon would kill them eventually...
Alicent thought Viserys meant their Aegon while it was actually Rhaenyra’s Aegon.
Viserys meant Aegon the Conqueror.
@@garlantyrell6368 Nah, he meant Jon Snow.
@@bobbyb9258love your username😂
They should have spent 1-2 minutes hinting Rhaenyra had some contingency plan if Alicent decided to report her to the guards. That way I might have accepted this scene.
I wish Bran would travel back in time and tell Rhaerya about the promised prince jon snow, i bet you she would have give up on her claim right away and the war would be over in a fortnight.
Btw absolutely hate this scene..this is like the dumbass trip to capture an undead all over again. In the book neither side cared about legitimacy… they just wanted to win. The fact Alicent allows her to leave unharmed goes against everything she is in the show and in the book. If she truly seeks peace like the show claims then kill/capturing Rhaerya is the best way to ensure thousands don’t die.
Am I the only one to think the actresses but particularly the one portraying Alicent look too "modern day" for the roles ?
And just like that alicient killed everyone
i hate this scene sm, wow, this is smth i could’ve written in a fanfic but it’s in the actual show
I am team Green 💚💚💚 but I am devastated for both women, Rhaenyra have been stolen her rights, and she knows tge winning is slimm
I hate Alicent so much
So do I…Rhaenyra should have done away with her😩
@@nellzbaby335 I hate Rheanyra and Deamon
Why?
Two flawed women we get to watch and everyone's gotta take a side.
I'm team black
*Rhaenyra
This show is getting worse
Ngl it kinda is unfortunately
And your account is worse.
So I’d hardly say you’re the best judge of quality.
It truly is
Horrible decent
@@renaissanceman5296why would you lie. Just tell us the truth damn it. n0t g0na LiE n0t g0na LiE n0t g0na LiE 🤡
Bad writing
I never liked rhaenary, I think she's weak.