Why Are Pickleball Players Delusional About Ratings?
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- 0:00 - Intro
1:35 - April Fools Day
7:24 - Breaking Pickleball Documentary
10:44 - PPA and DUPR
16:00 - Anna Leigh 100th PPA Title
17:48 - Why Are Pickleball Players so Bad at Guessing Ratings?
45:17 - Tennis vs Pickleball Beef
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Catherine has 37 PPA titles.
The delusion comes because people have no idea how unathletic their own games look when they’re playing until they actually see themselves on tape lol.
People don’t make these comments based on athleticism. It’s not like Ben and Collin look particularly athletic out there while they’re winning golds.
When people claim 4.5 or 5.0 level of play, there are some expectations. A lot of footage making those claims don’t meet those expectations.
@@michaelboano7183 me? I’ve watched my tape and know how unathletic it looks lol
@@douglasmurdoch7247 People who make these comments are 3.0 themselves. None of the people are "claiming" they're 4.5 or 5.0. Those ratings are literally set by tournament play. Footage is very deceptive and doesn't show spin nor speed accurately. Follow the advice of Will and go film yourself or those you think are 4.5 or 5.0 at your local courts. You'll be surprised how much lower their capabilities appear when on video.
Yeah this makes a lot of sense. Staring out from our own eyes, we experience one POV of how we play, and that POV is very different from what someone standing on the sidelines - or watching on video - will see.
@@berimboplata but people aren’t saying they look worse because the ball is going slowly, or they think the ball has low spin. What people are calling out are the type and frequency of mistakes that shouldn’t be happening at true 5.0 play. It’s not about how cool one looks, or whatever arguments were being used. It’s hard to see people as 5.0 when they’re missing serves, dumping returns and thirds into the net, missing a dink two or three dinks into a rally.
The hallmark of true 5.0 play is longer rallies. You expect to see a serve and return both stay in play, you expect a successful third shot drop or drive, followed by a fifth shot drop to finish transition. And then you expect to see an extended neutral game until someone finds an attackable ball, and then you expect to see a firefight.
But a lot of “5.0” gameplay is mostly short rallies, where someone puts away an obvious pop up, or someone makes an unforced error early into the point. You very rarely see true neutral in 4.5 or 5.0 gameplay footage on RUclips.
And that’s because just like the people watching at home, the people posting RUclips videos are overrating themselves, too. And it doesn’t help that DUPR is inflated. DUPR runs hit by at least .5. DUPR 4.5s play like the public’s idea of a 4.0. DUPR 4.0s play like the public’s idea of a 3.5. Etc.
You guys hit the nail on the head regarding why people are delusional about ratings. Most do not play tournaments and only play recreational ball in their local park. Not only that but a 4.0 in one region is not the same as a 4.0 in another based on the talent in a particular area. So, if you don’t get out and play tournaments and different places it is going to be damn near impossible for you to have the slightest idea what you’re talking about.
RUclips commentors will watch Ben Johns miss X 3rd shot drops in a row and be like "I can drop better than Ben Johns." He's a 3.5 at best.
What they don't experience is:
- The great return from the opposing team
- The pressure of being on the championship court in tournament
- The pressure of an opponent that has such good 4th's that you have to get a perfect 3rd, or the point is over
- Every other high level shot that game that Johns hit perfectly
There are so many factors to consider that a person can't cherry pick the mistakes and judge a player by them. Get 99% of these RUclips jims out on the court and they'd fall apart in a real game.
You can always identify an actual competitor by how much respect they give other competitors.
I’d also say, just in general with racket sports. It’s pretty easy to look pretty bad even when you’re good. Like I’ll see average tennis players and think they’re not good, but that’s just the nature of the sport. It’s really easy to make errors.
You're right but as a fan I prefer athletes who take Michael Jordan and Cristiano Ronaldo approach, where they know in their mind they prepared for competition above and beyond good enough. And they are willing to push themselves to compete against the best their opposition can offer. And I always preferred this American style over the predominantly European style, with obvious Cristiano exception. I suppose different strokes for different folks.
yeah I'm a "4.0" because I beat "4.0s" all the time and I wouldn't be able to get into games on playtime where I'd be challenged at all if I self-rated any lower. the reality is that I'm likely 3.75 with a 4.5 serve.
Just like in tennis, 3.75 with a 4.5 serve is.... how many 4.0s are. Or maybe they are a 4.5 at dinks with a 3.75 3rd shot (or whatever). Kind of the whole thing of being a 4.0 is that you know how to play and are pretty good but that your game needs a good amount of rounding out. You're usually relying on something that you're pretty good with at that level to prop up other areas that you aren't.
To be fair there is also a lot of local variation in self-assigned ratings. In smaller areas the "good group" all says they are "4.5" or whatever and that sort of sets the levels for everyone else, even if they are 3.75 at best in a more populated setting. Tournaments and an extensive DUPR are really the only ways to know IMO.
That 11Six3.5 paddle is outstanding. I'd buy a paddle from Hurache just for their sense of humor.
I can't believe I listened to the entire podcast! First time. I appreciated your comments Will on the tennis vs pickleball. Those who have/and are playing tennis will always consider PB as not being as difficult. The facts speak for themselves. How many people can you get on a PB court that have never played and enjoy the game? The same cannot be said of tennis. It is not as forgiving and those who have gone through the fire feel they have achieved an accomplishment -- to be able to master a skill. The nuance of PB is what takes many years to master. If I can put a comparison, it's like the game of Chess and Go. Go seems so simple, but the skill to be a master takes years!
Love hearing that intro, it just means my day is going to to get way better! 😁👍🏼
You guys are 100% right about people thinking they look better than they really do
Made it to the kitchen plus!! I believe Catherine is at 37. PPA posted a graphic during game 3 of the singles match.
Chris, new series idea for one of y'all: recorded matches of ppl that think their rank is higher vs ppl that rank. Or inverse: ppl that say players aren't their rank playing against those ppl. I'm sure you can find folks all over the community that would show those matches. That's an easy series that everyone would get hooked on.
This would be a great Idea. Brian Scalabrine a former NBA player used to do this. He would school all kinds of mouthy youtubers. You guys should keep your eyes out for these commenters who say 3.5 at best and show up at their door with an offer to go to their local court. It would make great viewing.
watching film of matches can be tricky if u wanna estimate the level but some things don't lie such as evaluating one's drops, resets, court positioning and footwork
Excellent analysis by Will comparing Pickleball to Tennis regarding how the lower level of athleticism needed in Pickleball allows you get to the court IQ level of playing the game much quicker than you can in Tennis. That doesn't mean that PB players are not athletic because they definitely are at the higher levels of the game. The physics involved in tennis means there's just a much smaller margin for error so you have to be much better overall before you can start playing game like a chess match. Have played both at the rec level and I'm so glad that PB is popular because I can still play it at a level with plenty of others that results in an really fun chess match. First played PB (singles) before it was "a thing" back in 1981 and really happy it ultimately exploded so there's a lot of opportunity to play! Great discussion.
Chris, I'd DM you for a paddle but I'm not on IG!
Also, just here "feedin' the algorithm"!
Even at the high level there are PLENTY of pro pickleball players who are not exactly built like athletes, at all. Compared the physiques of the top 100 male pickleballers to the top 100 ATP pros.... Basically every one of the ATP 100 are extremely fit, often with great genetics for the sport on top of it. A solid chunk of the top 100 PPA guys could do well with a diet and clearly don't do much cardio or actual fitness training outside of playing pickle
Another great podcast. Keep it up, gents. 👊🏾
I just bought the Players Rouge2 Ultra Gel. Wanted a touch paddle with a wide body. Kyle is a great podder, Love his teaching vids.
This is why pickleball is really annoying. As much as I love it, people have this delusion about themselves because they might have a consistent winning record at their local courts.
Any person can make play extremely well if they aren’t being challenged properly.
Until you become the top competitor on a court of ppl that are 5.0+ then you can start to look at yourself in a different light.
But more often than not, anyone can lose on any given day, so ppl need to really have a taste of humble medicine loll.
Can't wait for your take on the Apollo. The specs look awesome with a low swingweight and high twistweight. Spartus claims spin at over 2300rpm although I'll wait for an unbiased assessment. The Scorpeus Alpha is another that I'm excited to see.
@4:00 i was hoping you guys wouldve talked about that new engage pro1 paddle to the left
I was waiting for verification from Engage that we were allowed to talk about them before I did.
@@PickleballStudio totally understand!
IG is not letting me send a comment. I know I was late, but wanted to roll up in your dms. Lol. Keep up the great work you two.
Going on vacation and visiting courts, i actually think the best thing to say if people are asking, to say youre 3.5 at best. The ranking at pickup games shakes itself out after a couple games pretty quickly.
I think the reason (why pickleball high tier players get underestimated online more than high tier tennis players) is partially because pickleball is still viewed by some as a game for older people that are retired. Most of the news/media that has promoted pickleball in the last few years really focused on how pickleball was helping older people stay active and very little (if any) mention of a pro scene. When PPA/MLP/APP become more popular and give much higher payouts I think that this could gradually change this perception. Until then unfortunately most people online think of pickleball as an easy game to keep older people healthy and active and thus they think 5.0 pickleball play "can't be that hard to achieve".
Part of the issue is that.... 5.0 is not that hard to achieve and being a pro is not that hard to achieve compared to many many sports. Pickleball is literally an easier version of tennis mixed with an easier version of ping pong. As someone who isn't old I kind of hate the focus on "old people getting out there" but it also isn't just old people it is also average joes who are not in the best shape, etc. It is a much more fun game to play than, say, tennis if you have a mixed set of skills. It is much easier to get into that tennis. Someone can play pickleball with only a couple hours of practice, starting from scratch. Very very much not true of tennis..... Because the whole point is that pickleball is easier tennis. That's ok! It is no different than softball in that respect. But like softball, pickleball is never going to become a hugely popular spectator sport because at the top level people still are watching players who are largely less athletic than tennis pros, playing a game that is clearly less athletic and easier in general, ESPECIALLY compared to singles tennis (which is really all that people watch as a spectator sport).
Multi biggest gripe is that they don’t separate mixed from gender doubles. I know that personally, my DUPR has come down pretty significantly due to performances in mixed. IMO, mixed is a different game and it should be rated apart from gender doubles.
I'd always lean my score down to not come across as cocky. I might be 4.0, but I'll consider myself 3.5 until I consistently beat 4.0s
A 4.0 should beat 4.0s only about half the time, yeah?
Y'all both teasing the new Joola paddle in the background. 👀👀👀
I think that inability to accurately judge skill levels is largely attributable to Dunning-Kruger effect.
It only takes months or a year to achieve 3.5 level in pickleball. To do the same in tennis, you need to train for several years just to have a decent serve.
So, level for level, tennis players have wayyyyy more experience in their sport and are thusly better informed in their assessment abilities.
What about the recent meme that 70% of tennis spectators think they can take a game off of a pro? I think in both tennis and pickleball, the game simply does not translate well in video. Both sports look much much much slower and easier on camera than in person.
@@Bunny-ii3ji really good point!
@@Bunny-ii3jialso the spin on the ball players hit.. the way they move players around. Most players if they don’t get the dink hit to them they will hit an erratic dink back.. pros hit such beautiful dinks while getting moved around.
problem with DUPR is people attach their worth as a human to their DUPR score. I haven't uploaded a match in like 6 months, because the last like 10 times I did the opponent would never verify the match because they didn't want their DUPR to go down. People cheating the system has ruined the system.
The rating system cannot include the players in the equation. Matches need to be reported by tournaments and that’s that. Nothing more frustrating than the teams you beat deleting your matches because it will either lower their rating or who knows what else
@@chrishennon8504 I feel like there should be a system where the opponent just verifies the match at the start of it, and then afterwards either side can enter the scores and nobody needs to "accept". There should be a way to "dispute" but you should have to actually provide proof or explain what is wrong (and it should be public). If someone has a pattern of many disputes, people will doubt their rating or just not want to play with them. Of course tournaments are best, but it should be doable for non-tournament play as well.
Someone in our area started a "King of the Court" ladder league, and I'm going to see where I fall compared to other players. I'm afraid to go to tournaments, self-rate at too low a level, and sandbag because I saw people play "2.5" who beat me when I started playing - and I wasn't that bad. I like to win, but I'd rather earn it in a fair fight.
My DUPR is completely screwed up, it has me as a 3.5, I play 4.0 tournaments and metal and I play mostly in 4.5 open plays. All my big wins are sitting invalidated or deleted by the other players and my losses are quickly accepted. It's rare that tournaments enter results into dupr so players have to themselves. Also my regular partner gets highly targeted and openly admits I play a level higher than he does yet he got started out .5 higher than me, we can't figure out why and now when we win together it gives him more of an increase than me and when we lose it gives him less of a decrease than me.... It's impossible to overcome as people won't accept losses to me. I play in many many 300-500 person tournaments in my area
just think of DUPR as updoots on social media and you soon wont care. Id go by how you finish at large tournaments.
I bought a Hurache-X Control+ and I'm absolutely loving it.
Speaking of local rec play, nice to see you at EG.
Let's see if you can help me, I have a big problem with paddles. I currently have Ruby 6.0 to play singles, and it works great for me, it is the best paddle for singles for me, I find it super stable, and I notice that the ball goes where I want. On the other hand, to play doubles, I cannot move it on the net, it feels very heavy and I have little maneuverability. and then I use a 16mm perseus and I notice that I can move it better. Do you think there would be a paddle that can be adapted for both modalities for those things I'm looking for? The Perseus individually I notice that the balls do not go where I want, as it is more unstable. So I'm currently not sure what to do, do you recommend something? I'm also waiting to buy the new Perseus on April 16. but I don't know if the same thing will happen to me as with the old ones, being "gen3" I have very good opinions about them. What can you tell me about all the sermon I have given you?
I'm sorry and thank you
I think the easiest and best thing to look for when evaluating another player is the number and frequency of unforced errors
I would like to see a re-match and see how much closer the scores will be.
3:47 Chris describes his April Fools Day Huarache paddle from 11SIX24.
3:22 or 3:16 for the background story about packages and request for more Huarache paddles
I don't play many tournaments - mostly because of the bad experiences with sandbaggers. I also don't have 'regular' partners when I do play tournaments so, when I do play, I usually am playing with partners I've never met. If you look at the matrix for determining ratings, most people see themselves as a higher rating than they probably are but, if you self rate and play a tournament - and I say this from personal experience - your DUPR probably will not reflect your actual skill level. My coach convinced me to play my first tournament and I asked her what I should self rate at - so what I rated myself at was not based on ego. I got crushed. I recently played a tournament and there were not enough teams at the level we entered so they moved us up to the next level. As it turned out, my partner later told me he wasn't rated even for the level we were signed up for - and we got crushed. Now, when people ask me what my DUPR is, I tell them and they immediately accuse me of sandbagging. Because I agreed to play at a higher level, with a partner that had a lower rating, I am rated below where I should be. SO, if I enter another tournament, do I enter based on my official DUPR or what others see me as?
Enter under your DUPR if it is well established. Sounds like the big issue was that you were say a 3.5 entering a 3.5, but moved to a 4.0 and then found out your partner was a 3.0 (or whatever the numbers actually are). That's never going to go well
VERY TRUE! It never looks as good as it felt, although, if you have incredible extension then it can look good for pickleball!
Will's comments at the 21:50 mark are spot on.
When you're on the court playing, the play seems way faster and way better than it does when you record it and play it back and watch it.
If you record yourself, you'll be HIGHLY critical of your own play... you have no idea.
Hey Chris! Do you have a B&B Shogun yet? I’m curious as to what you think about it
I don’t
I totally thought I looked great when playing till I watched myself play and noticed I look like an old hunchback trying to swat a mosquito…
Hi Chris do you feel that the latest hurache will be the same as original ??
Hey Chris and Will. I think the Spartus Apollo looks extremely similar to the Volair Mach 2, which is the one I play with, having switched from the Ronbus 3.16 and the Pulsar. I am very interested in your thoughts on the Apollo! On the tennis v PB debate, I think its apples and oranges in terms of the skill set. A few thoughts in no particular order. 1. If you come from tennis as an elite player, and you don't have elite reflexes and eye hand coordination skills, which you need at the kitchen in hand battles, you will not play at the hightest level (top 10, top 20?) of the pro PB game. 2. Elite tennis requires elite athleticism. Elite PB does not require elite athleticism, although of course it helps - for example, Alshon does have what I would consider elite athleticism and it helps his game in PB quite a bit. Moving on to your giveaway, I always make it to the kitchen, but I may not see your podcast for a day or so after it airs, so it would be great if you have some other types of contests to win a paddle other than a race to be the first DM. On the estimates of skill level, that is such an interesting issue. To my eye, the paddle avengers play to your DUPR ratings, although sometimes you have an off day, like Chris did when him and John played together. John also looked like he was having an off day, but with both of you, one could still see the skill level even in the shots you attempted but missed. And somedays, you play to a bit of a higher level, like when Chris won the 5.0 in Hawaii a couple months back. Will always seems to have a very consistent game, as evidenced in the pros v joes games I've seen. And I think Braydon is a really good and strong player. Finally, moving on to my kitchen, you guys are dead on with respect to the comments about how one looks on video compared to how one thinks they are playing in the moment. Points that I thought were great while playing, looked mediocre on tape. Rallies that seemed long while playing (we're playing pickleball now!!) were actually quite short. It was helpful though to see how I played. Like the comment you made months ago when you were working on your backhand, you saw you were not bending your knees nearly as much as you thought. I realized I was moving far less quickly to the kitchen or to the ball than I thought; my paddle preparation looked late and slow; my footwork looked abysmal. So a bit of a wake up call there. Always a pleasure to see your content!
One of my favourites is “I’m going to be in London , I’m a 4.0 / 4.5 and would love to find some games”. Then they show up and they are definitely not that level.
This podcast always brightens up my day! I love what you guys do. You’ve inspired me to start recording some games.
I agree with will they need some good graphics to teach/show viewers how slim the margin of error is
Have to have the ultimate giveaway for the 3.5 Chris paddle something like video of most given it received body bags in 1 game of rec. is the winner. GREAT JOB!!! as always
Where can we see the documentary?
I've been thinking about recording some of my matches for self improvement purposes. You guys have given me second thoughts. In my mind's eye I play OK. Seeing myself on video might be more than my ego can handle. And god forbid the video ends up on the internet!!! I might need to be placed on suicide watch.
It's true. I've seen myself. I think I'm quick on the court for my age, and I look so slow! Any mistake made me look like a 2.5.
"Most people look worse than they think they are on film" - true with any sport. So true and in my life that's surfing. Ongoing joke on the beach watching others, "he should see himself on film, he'd 😆 quit" Brutal.
3 to 3.5 players will look good against other similar players because they get softer balls, hits to their forehand, higher dinks that are easy to take advantage of. Also their opponents are not going to capitalize on mistakes the same as higher rated players will.
5.0+ players won't give each other 3.5 type mistakes to put away.
I believe I saw on the stream yesterday that CP had high 30s on PPA titles like 38-39.
Hey Chris - thanks for calling attention to the ridiculous comments about ratings. Interesting that most of the tennis videos you checked out had positive comments. 5-10 years ago when posting rec matches to RUclips first started, it was just as toxic as pickleball if not even worse. I think gradually over time people started to understand the difference between feel vs. video and came to terms with their own levels. I think pickleball can get there eventually, but good god, it was ridiculous how bad the community was at first.
To me, pickleball is just a different skill set than either tennis or racquetball. It is more of a skillful chess match than a power game. Like Michael Jordan taking up baseball and looking like an amateur. Not better or worse, just a different skill set. True people like Deon Sanders or Bo Jackson have excelled in two sports, but very rare.
Hat brand u guys have on????
Simply, DUPR is a joke as of now, especially for the amateur players.
I have never played pickleball before, but my thinking is that I'm going to be better than a beginner right off the bat. Here is my thinking if basketball players can play volleyball sucessfully, i.e. Vince Carter and Wilt Chamberlain, and volleyball is a sport with very high learning curve, I should be able to apply my tennis skills effectively in pickleball. I could be wrong, but I am anxious to find out either way. So I can say I skipped grades 1.0 - 2.5.
Thank you for your time and posting. I don't think it will be either. They will start losing more with all the good and youthful tennis players coming in (Black, Wright, Sock). Totally agree that players overrate themselves. I know a half dozen players who have rated themselves 4.0 for years, and IMO, they are barely 3.5, one 3.0. But you can blame coaches who rate their students higher than they should be for 'additional' lessons. I don't do Instagram.
Would like the engage pursuit!
Regarding the filming of self...This is 100% accurate. Even after seeing college games on tape 20 years ago (yes tape)...The first time I watched myself play pickleball I was shocked.
Like all sports, the pace is much faster when viewed / played in real life. And much slower when watched on recording.
You can try recording your own gameplay and watch it back, it will appear a lot more slow paced than you remember.
very true. watch a pro tennis match live...it's not human. I've seen djokovic and Nadal play live....they are cyborgs or aliens.
The same thing happen in Padel, a lot of people say: oh these guys are lower level in my town. 😅 In Mexico Pickleball its so new that we dont have this type of coments yet. But for sure it will be like that. 😂
Comparisons have been made between tennis, squash and badminton concerning fitness...needless to say the squash players nearly always come out top fitness wise but often their skill set suffers when they compete in the racquetthons (combined racquet sports competitions)... its difficult to compare!
The real reason the comments are like that is because people like to make themselves feel better. The bulk of people are 3.5 so therefore when they see something better than 3.5 they see it as worse when they see something worse than 3.5 they think of it as better.
Apollo is $130 before discount codes. Should be an awesome paddle.
Thinking Ben Johns would be able to move to tennis and be in the top 200 is the most hilarious take I have ever heard. He wouldn't be top 1000.
Its called the dunning kruger effect. The less you know the more you think you know (the better you think you are). This is also why i hated watching tennis despite being a top 30 socal junior. The game just felt so slow on tv compared to in person.
My guess is that ratings are deflated in tennis hotbed areas. Any tennis player probably comes in half a point below their tennis level so its hard to maintain a rating system in an area with a ton of 4.5 tennis players because youll always have random 4.0s with no /super low ratings coming in and randomly beating a bunch of rated players (who also improve very quickly but carry their old losses with them)
Any word on the sixzero pickleball Will paddle?
DUPR is an insane way to rank skill level. What kind of rating system allows your opponent in TOURNAMENTS to delete your match when you win?? WTF? Any rating system needs to be controlled by the tournaments. Play a tournament match, get your result automatically reported to the rating system. No deletions. No manipulation by the players. Can you imagine if all of Federer’s opponents got to delete their losses to him? He’d would’ve been ranked like 98 in the world 😂. I just started playing Pickleball about 18 months ago and the way ratings works in this sport is absolutely the biggest let down, especially for tournament players.
"We will never mess that up again" until the next time you mess it up
For the giveaways, instead of always giving it to the first person you should switch it up and make it the 5th, 7th or Xth person that messages you! That’ll give it a twist haha
Is finesse an under used skill in a lot of tennis circles because power can get you so far. If you have little finesse in PB you will get crushed at anything over 4.0
Let’s talk pickleball. No other sports should have to creep into this discussion as much as it happens.
I for one don’t care in the least little bit about tennis and therefore don’t troll their social media. Two different games and just would love to see these sports go their own way and leave the other out of the equation. Don’t care 🤷♂️
How long had RF been playing Tennis and how much money had he spent before he reached the top 50 in pro Tennis? How long has BJ been playing PB and how much money has he spent to get to #1. PB does not have popular years behind it and financial backing that tennis does to foster people to go all out in what their body can do.
hell no dmshit tennis still way more athletic
I wanted to add a bit more to the algorithm. :) WHY do people compare one sport to another, or one thing to another? Oh, because right now, pickleball is outshining tennis. You can't compare something that is comprehensively different from another thing. Except for a net, and something you hit the ball with, the only thing they really have in common. People usually compare something because they are unhappy with how one thing is going or turning out. Or with something they do not like, so they are biased towards one side. "Oh, tennis is so much more difficult to play than pickleball"... "Oh, yes, I'm a tennis player"... "Oh, ya, they are taking away our tennis courts and replacing them with that stupid sport." People LOVE to compare apples to oranges. Comparing tennis with pickleball is apples to a potato (both are a sport. You can eat both :) Example: Tom Brady compared to Patrick Holmes> Good comparison; same sport, same position, both grew up playing sport, etc... Apples to apples. Thank you for your time and play on... With pickleball, not that stupid sport tennis. :)
Personally, a couple of ways I gauge my opponents: 1. How they return a slice 2. How they handle the overhead. If they handle them with ease.....then I'm in for a tough battle and Im dead lol. And I still think Will is better than all of you 😂
30:10 One skill that doesn’t translate well to tape is gamesmanship/ shot selection. If I figure out what you’re weakest at, that’s what I’m going to poke at all game. Always try to bring out the worst of your opponent. If you do that successfully, you’ll make your opponent look lower skilled without making yourself look higher skilled. Now we know to target Chris with speed ups!
I’m curious. You should get 8 guys 4.0-4.5 or whatever, film 2 games, post one as “4.5 rec game” and the other as “3.5 rec game” and watch the comments to see the ignorance of viewers and to test your theory!
That’s actually a hilarious idea 😂
Chris has gotten good for a cuber lol. And Will… watch his Oklahoma Premier matches from the other day. Little dude can ball!
I watch videos at 2x so I always think the games are so crazy fast lol
I hope that pickleballbrackets enforces DUPR scores for tournament registration. As much as I hear guys complain that their DUPR is too low (lol) that isn't really an issue because you can always play up in a tournament. The single most frustrating thing in my pickleball experience is sandbaggers; guys that have plenty of games in DUPR for an accurate rating that play down 1 or even 2 levels. Hopefully they enforce DUPR for tournament registration so that the tournament experience is more fun for us 3.5 level players wanting to play against actual 3.5 players.
I think that the problem with judging players DUPRs is that the rating used to only go up to 5.0. So, the pros were all 5.0. So now, we still think that none of us mere mortal rec players can be anywhere near a 5.0. A 5.0 today is not the same as a 5.0 two years ago (today's 5.0 was the equivalent of a 4.0 two years ago). Ratings have evolved, but our brains (and estimation skills) have not.
There's a TON of channels where they just post their local club's matches and it's always like "4.5 vs 5.0 Tournament finals!" And then they just look awful.
I'd love for there to be a pro like Max Homa in the PGA, who just unabashedly calls people out for their terrible golf swings.
I want someone in the PPA to start doing that, and maybe we could tag them. It'd be harder to do on youtube though. Twitter ideally.
Any rating playing against players of the same rating looks the same. it’s just like when tall people are around tall people they don’t look tall.
I wonder if we are talking about do7bles how the top doubles tennis team fares in pickleball, and how the top pickleball team fares in tennis
One rating system needed....NO difference between doubles , singles or mixed......Like in TENNIS.......
I watched the matches, I thought all were between 4.0 & 5.0
I think of pickleball as less athletic than tennis for sure, but do think there is some merit to the reaction time argument. I think it's similar to calling valorant/csgo a "esport". Their reaction time and micro movements of their mouse are phenomenal "athletic" feats that couldn't be replicated by the average joe even if they tried (including fast decision making etc), however, obviously no one would look at those people and say they are traditional athletes. Pickleball IMO is like the nerdy version of tennis, similar athleticism and coordination is required albeit on a much lesser scale for pickleball but the reaction time of top pickleball pros I think could outpace tennis in the future if it doesn't now.
The main reason the top of tennis is so much better than the top of pickleball is because the popularity of pickleball is so new, we don’t have the best athletes choosing pickleball as their sport. No offense to guys like Ben Johns but if pickleball continues its popularity and kids start playing it from 14 years old and choosing it over other sports he would quickly fall down the leaderboard. There’s a lack of true competition at the tip top and that’s what makes it a much easier sport to climb the rankings than almost any other.
Pickleball is new and new players are joining fast. It's less established than tennis and there seems to be more grey area in ratings for PB. I think Tennis players have a more established game and ratings 🤷
This still doesn’t explain Genie Bouchard
Will bowlers try and compare themselves as athletes to PB?
Will kinda looks like Eddie from Johnkew's channel. Doppelgänger?
Yeah. Like 30 years from now.
Pickleball players who only specialize is open rec play have a very ego driven mind set
Ratings: I'm always a half a point better than my partner :). In all seriousness, unless you put four people with very similar Dupr ratings on the same court, you won't really get a sense of the levels of play. Perfect example of this was John (no offense to John) playing with the two of you and Brendan.
I implore people to record themselves it’s a huge wake up call for most. I never really understood why people compare tennis to pickleball outside of sharing the same court. Nobody in their right mind can say pickleball is harder than tennis as whole but like every sport the ceiling is where it gets harder to climb. I just don’t get why it matters. Why cant people just play whatever they want to play.
Playing either game is about having fun before anything else. The majority 80-90% of us play tennis/pickleball at a 3.5-4.5 level which is just average. Most of us won’t attain anything close to the top 5 percentile of these sports so really why does it matter? Being first a tennis player myself and seeing comments from other tennis players talk crap to pickleball players when in reality we’re all just average players is just embarrassing to me. Just have fun, mind your business, and enjoy life while you can.
You are actually each others cohost…….. it has nothing to do with hierarchy
In the end ,it doesn't matter what you think. It's about results and who you play.
Don't want to win the paddle, but always make the kitchen. Who doesn't make it to the kitchen?
Jaso sock also was number 8 in singles in 2017 then he got down to number 2 in doubles in 2018
I play pickleball for the same reason a lot of people past their prime do- it doesn’t require that much athletic ability. That’s why you can see both 10yo kids and 75yo ladies beating the snot out of 25yo athletes. It’s skill. Precision. Decision making. Sure, being athletic will give you an edge, but the playing field is a lot more level.