Probably will get hate for this, but I prefer the flow and dynamic between the two of you. I also like that Aizek’s opinions can be so different, and having you both together in a studio adds as well.
Great meeting you both at Beer City Open! I’m still impressed by how quickly you solved the Rubik’s cube, Chris. You’re both just as great in person as you are on the pod. Always appreciate the content!
Chris, not sure if y’all were aware, but can you please tell the new main host of the podcast that there was a lizard on his shoulder the entire episode.
The camera work made this last MLP ( at least most matches) noticeably more entertaining to watch. Even the last PPA seems to have leveled up production. I imagine it is only a matter of time they make production top quality and bait and switch us into needing some subscription service to watch any full match.
Save this proton segment and send to any haters that say they can’t trust Chris or other reviewers because companies send them paddles. He doesn’t sound like a hater. He’s being honest and truthful and educating the public. Keep it up.
Melin pickleball hat design soon In the works. I’m telling you man that emblem tag in the bottom of bill should be an optic pickleball ! Light blue under bill, white hat on top with gold melon icon and accents
Chris you are asking leading questions to Proton. You also clearly had a narrative when trying to shut down the Gen 3 Joolas. Trying to now shut down Proton whose main mission is to create more durable paddles for the sake of consumers and the planet. Not a good look.
I’m not sure how these are bad things to be asking. If the APP is pulling them from pro play, I would think consumers would be concerned with potentially wasting $300. I never tried to get the Joola gen 3 shut down either. I just pointed out the potential safety concerns I observed during testing. I don’t understand how people misread these things. 🤷♂️ I’m also not trying to “shut down” anyone. I clearly stated in the pod I WANT to review these. If everything checks out, these are potentially some of the most exciting paddles for 2024. The reviewers AND consumers have all been asking for durable long lasting spin. I want Proton to go on and do awesome things, but right now everything feels very suspicious, and I think the consumers should be educated before purchasing.
It was great to meet you, The Host, Chris! Glad to see Aizec back in GR again last year. He upgraded in bringing you this year to BCO and dumped the other guy, what’s his name 😂 Thanks for the picture with the both of you. My wife was super jealous and bummed she missed out as she was still was Championship Court 😢
It's natural to want a pickleball paddle that performs the same way both when it's new and after it's been used for a while. However, many sports have equipment that needs a break-in period to work their best. For example, baseball bats, especially composite ones, need to be used a bit before they reach their peak performance. Peak performance could add 40-60 more feet. The same thing happens with pickleball paddles. High-quality paddles are made from similar materials, which need some time to settle in. Like baseball bats, that same break-in period allows the paddle to soften slightly, making it feel better and perform better over time. I don’t think it’s realistic for a paddle to perform on Day 90 like it did on Day 1.
I've hit a few slice shots using spin continuation from an opponents top spin drop or dink. My slices hit into the kitchen and jumped back towards me into the net on the opponents side. I was using a Mach 2 Forza and X40 in 90° weather. I have also done this with a Spartus Apollo under similar conditions with the same ball. Every time I've pulled this shot off, it's not been returned. I'm playing against 3.5 on average players. I think any more spin and this shot and a few others become a problem.
I bought a hat for my son's birthday that is coming up, thx for the code that saved me a little money because those hats are a little expensive. Love the bearded dragon, they are awesome pets and good co-host replacements, hahaha.
They must’ve changed it to a $5 voucher as there is no such thing as a 20% discount right now for signing up for their clubhouse unfortunately. Chris should update this in the Video description / notes asap. 👍🏻
I think uncapped spin would wind up making the sport more similar to table tennis, for better or for worse. That would mean more shape on all shots (think Nadal banana winners down the line), more athleticism and overall nuance when generating and reading spin. I don’t think those things are inherently bad, and certainly more of a skill upgrade than uncapped power. If anyone has played high level table tennis before, they can absolutely attest to the sheer difficulty of generating high spin on strokes, especially on loops, counter loops, and chops.
If they uncap spin - can I please spray something on my Holbrook to get the grit back? Think of all the used Selkirks which could now be refurbed and have grit like new ??
Proud owner here of a BNB KTCHN bag! And I had the exact same notes that a little more room would be awesome. Not a lot, but when I have every sleeve filled with a BNB paddle (of course BNB), it’s hard to use both ball sleeves, much less trying to store anything in the open portion of the main compartment. I too also had two pulls break. But other than that, I’ve been using it flawlessly for travel to include a MacBook Air, iPad Pro, two paddles, and all the tech accessories and PB accessories without any issue!! LOVE LOVE LOVE!
I enjoyed the podcast. I agree with you and Aizec that the paddle’s characteristics should not change (break in period) after being tested and approved, because it is no longer the same paddle. Also, paddles that the initial approved paddles feel smooth and subsequent paddles have more friction/feel more grit are not the same paddles. Hopefully, USPA and UPA-A will be more proactive and transparent in their testing and test results. I agree with Aizec that spin should be capped at 2,500 rpms, otherwise there will be no need for players to go to the net. The players will be playing tennis and not pickleball. Thank you, Chris and Aizec.
Unpopular opinion... Will is great... but Aizec is SOOOOO much better. The podcast has way better flow, feels more natural, chris is more comfortable. Just all around better. At minimum Aizec needs to be a permanent member. At the extreme you ask will to kinda step back into a "guest" role when he has something legit he wants to talk about.
Proton must’ve changed the series 3 like they apparently changed the series 1. I ordered a series 3 back in January and don’t remember it being that gritty. The main claim was they were the grittiest paddles on the market and that they’d last longer, but the grit didn’t last that long, and it actually got delaminated after only using it for a few months. 🤔.
Charles is a salesman and promoter of his products...the exact same thing happens with his softball bats......great performance, slow service, high expectations, long waits for products, short staffed, unanswered emails...but their products are great...if you like this type of experience, go for it
I think it would be really helpful for you to have a “baseline” paddle for your reviews when talking about characteristics. I feel like you did this with the DBD for a while, unofficially, and it was really helpful to contextualize your analysis! Especially when you speak about qualitative things like plushness, stability, pop, etc… Maybe have a new baseline paddle every 6 months or so.
The comments about bashing other paddles carbon fiber vs the Proton paddles are actually spot on for how marketing actually works...why market something saying "oh it will get better" that doesn't fly with distributors and end consumers. Now the lack of paddles and crap customer service are a definite negative.
Hey guys, it was good to meet you there a few times. I had a great time as well. I had press pass and was in the sun for two days. After that I chilled a lot more and sat in press and player test. I couldn't take any more sun. Whew! We talked about it on out Pickleball Today - The POD podcast today as well. It was my first MLP and I really loved it. But ya, it was flippin' hot. Cheers Pat
They are great paddles!!! You are haters😅😂🤣 They passed for months and now they are selling anybody can figure out somebody doesn't want them out there competing for $$$$ . They will last for a long time.
I was going to get 2 hats but with the discount code 2 hats fell short of free shipping. So yesterday 3 hats arrived. Maybe when the actual host gets back he can work out a more sensible detail so two hats qualify for free shipping.
At PPA Sacramento, employees in the Pickleball Central store were doing demos to show/highlight how much more friction/resistance the Protons had vs any other paddle in the store. I kinda feel like that says it all, haha.
My understanding is that the Proton Series 1 paddles were approved by the USPA. In order to be approved, the paddle is tested for allowable friction. Are you accusing Proton of submitting a different paddle for testing versus the paddle that they sell? (Like Joola supposedly did?) My understanding of the Daescu paddle that failed testing was submitted by mistake and never would have been submitted voluntarily as yes, it had been tampered with. I recently purchased a Series 1 paddle and feel great about it as I assume the spin will not degrade as much over time as most other paddles do. The fact that the Proton pros use the same exact paddle for months is why they play better with them as they don't have to adjust to a paddle changes every tournament.
Widening the net is a ridiculous idea. Pro tournaments use portable nets. I play at five different facilities. Four outdoor and one indoor and all of them have permanent nets. Widening the net would also decrease the space between courts. That means you have to resurface all of the courts and in many cases you would probably wind up losing courts because you need the extra width for the extra net width.
I disagree. It would be a pain to do but it’s possible. But the future of pickleball looks stale. Watching pros play is boring as hell. I think rec play would be fine but still boring as hell to watch on a screen
Proton being sneaky with that friction, Chris hating on them with reason-Where you at Charles Darling? Although I do understand that his paddles are not failing at events based on the testing provided which is fair, but maybe friction needs better testing idk
You're so right about how exciting it is in person. I've been to MLP in Mesa and it was one of the most exciting sporting events I have ever been to. The semi's had incredible dream breakers and the crowd was so loud. I think it was equally as exciting in Michigan but it doesn't translate as well on TV. I agree go to one in person it won't disappoint. Great pod guys!!!
You could add an extension that attaches to the current net to add the extra foot without rebuilding the net on all those courts that have already been built. I imagine that would not be a very expensive change.
Disclaimer … came from tennis so consider the source I’ve thought the same thing for my 18ish months in pickleball … pickleball (doubles) should not be turned into tennis, but imo it’s too kitchen centric. Said another way … I would think the game would be more fun to play (and watch … think Johns vs JW/Frazier) if skills that won were more evenly balanced between baseline and kitchen. As it stands now most baseline skills (drives, serves, return of serves) have been relegated to get the point started by getting to the kitchen. For this retired tennis player, the most fun I have on a pickleball court is the firefights, hand battles … so I would have no interest in doing anything that made that go away. Ironically … I have found the increased spin with paddle improvements to move the needle towards that more balanced baseline and kitchen skills. Primarily one shot … topspin lob from baseline. In tennis doubles, if a team/player crowded the net too close, they were at risk of being beat with a topspin lob. The chess match of net positioning and the offensive lob made tennis doubles better not worse. I started with Prince Response Pro graphite paddle. Even though I arrived with a very good tennis forehand topspin lob … the combination of small court dimensions and insufficient spin (I will miss strings forever) made baseline topspin lobs a low percentage play. But then carbon, thermoformed, a bunch of Vatic Pro paddles and that too many errors gap shrunk. Now … with the Apollo … it seems very close to a good percentage play. Give me another 20% and I think it becomes a very high percentage play. FWIW … I’m thinking rec play, so not factoring in a Ben Johns running down all lobs and re-dropping them. So … I ask the question … is successful offensive topspin lobs from the baseline good or bad for the game. I think it disrupts the kitchen centric monopoly … but in a good way, doesn’t eliminate kitchen play but makes game less one dimensional. FYI … a drive from baseline (tennis or pickleball) loses mph with added spin. The fasted you will ever hit is flat to near the baseline. Where spin shines in singles is angles, passing shots … and maybe someday topspin lobs. The other major spin factor in tennis is the heavy topspin ball that bounces up high in opponents strike zone at the baseline. Pickleball players should never ever say “heavy plastic ball topspin” … ever. 😂 I think we have enough power now … but should allow more spin from here. How much more … good question … but I don’t think Apollo+20% breaks the game.
That is interesting to hear about the Series 3 paddle. I ordered and received one in April which was (as they refer to it) a .1 model which has a blue edge guard- this was the only model in stock at the time. I was sort of underwhelmed by the grit and it definitely did not have enough to stick to a shirt like the Joolas. I reached out to them after a few weeks about the performance to return the paddle and got no response. To their credit it did get better over time and had a more consistent sweet spot. But I would by no means consider it a "spinny" paddle. It sounds like these new .2s have a LOT more grit and it makes me wonder what/when they were sent for testing.
I think paddles should be capped and more attention should be given to the balls. You can just as easily increase current spin or speed by changing the ball that is being used to play. Also if things move to a foam type ball, like the Gamma, you would lower the noise issues that pops up in some locations and I don't think there would be as much worry about getting bagged by current power paddles that many complain about currently(Getting pegged by a Dura vs a Gamma feels a lot different).
Something to ponder concerning spin. Some tennis pros serve 100 mph and others 150 mph. The difference among PB players is no doubt similar. The rpm of a PB ball relates to how fast the paddle crosses the ball and how much of that speed is imparted to the surface of the ball. Efficiency of the contact relates to the coefficient of friction and force generated by the speed of the paddle. I'm a senior that relies on side spin often. I have noticed that to much spin results in considerable slip on the court surface resulting in limited side kick. I'm sure you have had the following happen to you: an opponent miss hits a return which goes short and a little high with spin resulting in a shocking amount of side kick so you miss. I believe that the rpm together with the force of the ball due to the height of its drop results in almost 100 percent traction which really kicks the ball to the side and you miss. Another subject: Differing grits of court surfaces is never taken into account not to mention court wear changes grit. Also what are the friction differences of different balls both new and warn. In conclusion i suggest taking a gen one paddle and spraying 3M spray glue on the surface and do the to a softer ball brand. This should be about the that this is the most spin that could ever be put on a ball and be the new max standard for comparison. Have different rated players do the test to get some sort of range there . I think this would be so interesting to see how close some paddles are to this doctored paddle and ball spin test. A comparative percentage could be assigned. Thanks for your time
Chris-your take on Proton is so spot on. I don’t care what the name of their technology is other gen 1 paddles are-they have a rubber face. Rubber is not permitted on a paddle face.
In my opinion, spin shouldn’t be capped…the only thing that should matter is exit velocity…who cares about grit?? How is that a safety issue? Just let the manufacturers be creative with cores and surfaces and have a single test, using a standard machine measuring exit velocity and that’s that…we’re making this fun game way more complicated than it has to be!! 🤦🏻♂️
I don't like my kitchn bag because my sweat gets left behind on my grips after a long summer day and instead of air drying it stays wet in the water proof bag. Gross 😬 Never had this problem in other bags
Am I the only one who thinks these pickleball bag prices are crazy?? when you can get a premium tennis bag for half the price!! meanwhile a PB bag is way smaller = less material..... not making sense in my mind.
Got mine about a week ago and have been playing with it and don't see what all the fuss is about whether or not it should be legal. It's a good well built solid paddle but it definitely doesn't hit like the Gearbox which I've been playing against so it can't be the pop and as far as spin goes it's definitely good but can't really say it's any better then the Volair Mach 2 or Six Zero Ruby(whichI have and play with) so imo it's much ado about nothing. All those speculating I'm sure haven't seen or played with it. It'll play out and we'll see where it goes but till then all I see is a lot of assumptions.
I would love you guys to glue some rubber ping pong sheets onto a paddle and see what kind of RPMs you get with that. Would be interesting to see what the number is and how close it is to the top level spin paddles and know that the threshold should be between what we have now and the rubber.
I've played with/against people using the Proton and I have a hard time seeing why this would potentially be banned. Joola Gen 3, on the other hand, sort of wrecked the game. I know testing has to be precise, but this seems like more of a spirt of the law vs. letter of the law thing. I can't imagine anyone playing against a Proton and feeling like their opponent had vastly superior equipment.
Thank you for your time. Always great stuff. AT MLP, there were some horrific line calls. Did you see on Thursday, Black Bears vs Florida Smash, how Esquivel lied on two baseline calls, IMO, the first one made the difference in winning the match. She wasn't even looking in the direction of the ball and she called them out, one overturned by her partner, Hewett. There were some bad calls but these were just blatant cheating.
I bought 2 Melin hats!! I literally pulled over on the side of the road and placed my order. 😂 I'm calling shenanigans with Proton. Very sketchy stuff.
@@PickleballStudio Franklin must've saw the pod and thought we don't want what happened to Melon to happen to us. Code didn't work for me either, the word must've gotten out.
Hey! I am from Duluth and I will be stopping in the twin cities next Tuesday for the first leg of a cross country pickleball tour and I am looking for a place to play…where should I be going?!
Used the 1oz butt cap for two play sessions. Strained the outer part of my hand. Did this happen to anyone else, or am I just old. It was as advertised, but never again.
Played against a guy using the Proton A a couple of months ago and immediately my thought was, how can these paddles be legal? Even the deflection was insane!
Really enjoying Aizec on the podcast, I hope you guys do more with you two cohosts and the host when he's back from overseas!
Probably will get hate for this, but I prefer the flow and dynamic between the two of you. I also like that Aizek’s opinions can be so different, and having you both together in a studio adds as well.
I agree. Love will but I think Aizec is more upfront about his opinions so there feels like more of a conversation back and forth
I agree.
Agree. Hope to continue to see Aizec on the pods. Thanks!
Aizec is killing it! The man has to stay on the pod.
Great meeting you both at Beer City Open!
I’m still impressed by how quickly you solved the Rubik’s cube, Chris.
You’re both just as great in person as you are on the pod.
Always appreciate the content!
Who at proton approved the aesthetic design 😭
Chris, not sure if y’all were aware, but can you please tell the new main host of the podcast that there was a lizard on his shoulder the entire episode.
That’s his brother. And that was a bearded dragon.
I'm glad I got to yell 3.5 at best at you when you hit a ball in the net 😉 haha. Couldn't help myself
The camera work made this last MLP ( at least most matches) noticeably more entertaining to watch. Even the last PPA seems to have leveled up production. I imagine it is only a matter of time they make production top quality and bait and switch us into needing some subscription service to watch any full match.
Save this proton segment and send to any haters that say they can’t trust Chris or other reviewers because companies send them paddles. He doesn’t sound like a hater. He’s being honest and truthful and educating the public. Keep it up.
Melin pickleball hat design soon In the works. I’m telling you man that emblem tag in the bottom of bill should be an optic pickleball ! Light blue under bill, white hat on top with gold melon icon and accents
Like comment if you agree ! Let’s get this hat guys ! Pickleballers can dream
Melin is the unofficial hat of pickleball
Is this the lizard’s first show? Love to meet him.
There are building bathrooms to the left behind the food trucks you were correct.
Chris you are asking leading questions to Proton. You also clearly had a narrative when trying to shut down the Gen 3 Joolas. Trying to now shut down Proton whose main mission is to create more durable paddles for the sake of consumers and the planet. Not a good look.
You’re a BS artist! Proton’s “main mission” is to make money!
I’m not sure how these are bad things to be asking. If the APP is pulling them from pro play, I would think consumers would be concerned with potentially wasting $300.
I never tried to get the Joola gen 3 shut down either. I just pointed out the potential safety concerns I observed during testing.
I don’t understand how people misread these things. 🤷♂️
I’m also not trying to “shut down” anyone. I clearly stated in the pod I WANT to review these. If everything checks out, these are potentially some of the most exciting paddles for 2024. The reviewers AND consumers have all been asking for durable long lasting spin.
I want Proton to go on and do awesome things, but right now everything feels very suspicious, and I think the consumers should be educated before purchasing.
I’m glad the Proton’s paddle are so expensive, because that’s what held me back from ordering one.
That and it’s never in stock…
Yep buy the halo!
Thanks for the Proton situation deep dive 👍
Paul Richards does so much he runs BCO with Andrea. BTW I was the guy on the Segway offering you a beer 😂
It was great to meet you, The Host, Chris! Glad to see Aizec back in GR again last year. He upgraded in bringing you this year to BCO and dumped the other guy, what’s his name 😂 Thanks for the picture with the both of you. My wife was super jealous and bummed she missed out as she was still was Championship Court 😢
It's natural to want a pickleball paddle that performs the same way both when it's new and after it's been used for a while. However, many sports have equipment that needs a break-in period to work their best. For example, baseball bats, especially composite ones, need to be used a bit before they reach their peak performance. Peak performance could add 40-60 more feet.
The same thing happens with pickleball paddles. High-quality paddles are made from similar materials, which need some time to settle in. Like baseball bats, that same break-in period allows the paddle to soften slightly, making it feel better and perform better over time.
I don’t think it’s realistic for a paddle to perform on Day 90 like it did on Day 1.
I've hit a few slice shots using spin continuation from an opponents top spin drop or dink. My slices hit into the kitchen and jumped back towards me into the net on the opponents side. I was using a Mach 2 Forza and X40 in 90° weather. I have also done this with a Spartus Apollo under similar conditions with the same ball. Every time I've pulled this shot off, it's not been returned. I'm playing against 3.5 on average players. I think any more spin and this shot and a few others become a problem.
I bought a hat for my son's birthday that is coming up, thx for the code that saved me a little money because those hats are a little expensive. Love the bearded dragon, they are awesome pets and good co-host replacements, hahaha.
The franklin coupon to get the additional discount doesnt come up. Can you explain how to get it down to $100 instead its 129
+1 how do I get this code?
They must’ve changed it to a $5 voucher as there is no such thing as a 20% discount right now for signing up for their clubhouse unfortunately. Chris should update this in the Video description / notes asap. 👍🏻
I think uncapped spin would wind up making the sport more similar to table tennis, for better or for worse. That would mean more shape on all shots (think Nadal banana winners down the line), more athleticism and overall nuance when generating and reading spin. I don’t think those things are inherently bad, and certainly more of a skill upgrade than uncapped power. If anyone has played high level table tennis before, they can absolutely attest to the sheer difficulty of generating high spin on strokes, especially on loops, counter loops, and chops.
If they uncap spin - can I please spray something on my Holbrook to get the grit back? Think of all the used Selkirks which could now be refurbed and have grit like new ??
Proud owner here of a BNB KTCHN bag! And I had the exact same notes that a little more room would be awesome. Not a lot, but when I have every sleeve filled with a BNB paddle (of course BNB), it’s hard to use both ball sleeves, much less trying to store anything in the open portion of the main compartment. I too also had two pulls break. But other than that, I’ve been using it flawlessly for travel to include a MacBook Air, iPad Pro, two paddles, and all the tech accessories and PB accessories without any issue!! LOVE LOVE LOVE!
Proton sounds a little sketchy
I agree here
Awesome pod as always. Man, Aizec is a huge asset to the podcast. Better watch out Chris, you might be working for your brother soon.
I enjoyed the podcast. I agree with you and Aizec that the paddle’s characteristics should not change (break in period) after being tested and approved, because it is no longer the same paddle. Also, paddles that the initial approved paddles feel smooth and subsequent paddles have more friction/feel more grit are not the same paddles. Hopefully, USPA and UPA-A will be more proactive and transparent in their testing and test results. I agree with Aizec that spin should be capped at 2,500 rpms, otherwise there will be no need for players to go to the net. The players will be playing tennis and not pickleball. Thank you, Chris and Aizec.
Unpopular opinion... Will is great... but Aizec is SOOOOO much better. The podcast has way better flow, feels more natural, chris is more comfortable. Just all around better. At minimum Aizec needs to be a permanent member. At the extreme you ask will to kinda step back into a "guest" role when he has something legit he wants to talk about.
Proton must’ve changed the series 3 like they apparently changed the series 1. I ordered a series 3 back in January and don’t remember it being that gritty. The main claim was they were the grittiest paddles on the market and that they’d last longer, but the grit didn’t last that long, and it actually got delaminated after only using it for a few months. 🤔.
Solid content, as always. You're brother rocks it out, hope he sticks around.
Charles is a salesman and promoter of his products...the exact same thing happens with his softball bats......great performance, slow service, high expectations, long waits for products, short staffed, unanswered emails...but their products are great...if you like this type of experience, go for it
I think it would be really helpful for you to have a “baseline” paddle for your reviews when talking about characteristics. I feel like you did this with the DBD for a while, unofficially, and it was really helpful to contextualize your analysis! Especially when you speak about qualitative things like plushness, stability, pop, etc… Maybe have a new baseline paddle every 6 months or so.
The comments about bashing other paddles carbon fiber vs the Proton paddles are actually spot on for how marketing actually works...why market something saying "oh it will get better" that doesn't fly with distributors and end consumers.
Now the lack of paddles and crap customer service are a definite negative.
If you can make it to a PPA event in Mesa, the facility is great as well! Permanent bathrooms, great food, and an awesome facility for the main court
Aizec pulling out “Christopher” to the host…….🤣🤣🤣 love the pod and reviews guys
Growing up he never let family call him Chris haha
Dreambreakers are the best thing about watching Pro Pickleball.
Diadem brought Icon V1 back 🔥🔥🔥…. Do you think it’s in light of the Proton talk?
Hmm. I'm debating canceling my Series 1 order
Hey guys, it was good to meet you there a few times. I had a great time as well. I had press pass and was in the sun for two days. After that I chilled a lot more and sat in press and player test. I couldn't take any more sun. Whew!
We talked about it on out Pickleball Today - The POD podcast today as well. It was my first MLP and I really loved it.
But ya, it was flippin' hot.
Cheers
Pat
They are great paddles!!! You are haters😅😂🤣 They passed for months and now they are selling anybody can figure out somebody doesn't want them out there competing for $$$$ . They will last for a long time.
Uncap the spin! Less power. Will really see what the pros have! ATP from the middle of the court!
I was going to get 2 hats but with the discount code 2 hats fell short of free shipping. So yesterday 3 hats arrived. Maybe when the actual host gets back he can work out a more sensible detail so two hats qualify for free shipping.
Or prime day melin hats (limited colors) for $48+ tax
I was pretty bummed I didn't get to meet you guys! Me and my partner were hoping to meet you guys after we were done playing.
At PPA Sacramento, employees in the Pickleball Central store were doing demos to show/highlight how much more friction/resistance the Protons had vs any other paddle in the store. I kinda feel like that says it all, haha.
My understanding is that the Proton Series 1 paddles were approved by the USPA. In order to be approved, the paddle is tested for allowable friction. Are you accusing Proton of submitting a different paddle for testing versus the paddle that they sell? (Like Joola supposedly did?) My understanding of the Daescu paddle that failed testing was submitted by mistake and never would have been submitted voluntarily as yes, it had been tampered with. I recently purchased a Series 1 paddle and feel great about it as I assume the spin will not degrade as much over time as most other paddles do. The fact that the Proton pros use the same exact paddle for months is why they play better with them as they don't have to adjust to a paddle changes every tournament.
Ain't gonna lie, Will brings a little something something else to the table that is missing here. Maybe the humor/charisma?
I agree. Aizak is good, but it's not the fun banter between Will & Chris. That's half the fun of watching the podcast!
Widening the net is a ridiculous idea. Pro tournaments use portable nets. I play at five different facilities. Four outdoor and one indoor and all of them have permanent nets. Widening the net would also decrease the space between courts. That means you have to resurface all of the courts and in many cases you would probably wind up losing courts because you need the extra width for the extra net width.
I disagree. It would be a pain to do but it’s possible. But the future of pickleball looks stale. Watching pros play is boring as hell. I think rec play would be fine but still boring as hell to watch on a screen
Proton being sneaky with that friction, Chris hating on them with reason-Where you at Charles Darling?
Although I do understand that his paddles are not failing at events based on the testing provided which is fair, but maybe friction needs better testing idk
didn't get a chance to meet you guys at BCO! keep up the good work
There were bathrooms behind Griff's Icehouse towards the baseball and softball diamonds near ALW's RV
Nice haircut, Aizec. BLO for sure
I’m trying to understand how uncapping spin would hurt the game. I know for sure it would make it more entertaining to watch!
You're so right about how exciting it is in person. I've been to MLP in Mesa and it was one of the most exciting sporting events I have ever been to. The semi's had incredible dream breakers and the crowd was so loud. I think it was equally as exciting in Michigan but it doesn't translate as well on TV. I agree go to one in person it won't disappoint. Great pod guys!!!
You could add an extension that attaches to the current net to add the extra foot without rebuilding the net on all those courts that have already been built. I imagine that would not be a very expensive change.
"our paddles have never failed a test" is like Barry Bonds saying, "i never tested positive for banned substances"
So Melon hats are now like Joola Gen 3/GB PPEs? Need their break in time to be their best? 👀
interesting wide sliding shot, you guys are sitting really close to each other, your knees are almost touching 😅
Disclaimer … came from tennis so consider the source
I’ve thought the same thing for my 18ish months in pickleball … pickleball (doubles) should not be turned into tennis, but imo it’s too kitchen centric. Said another way … I would think the game would be more fun to play (and watch … think Johns vs JW/Frazier) if skills that won were more evenly balanced between baseline and kitchen. As it stands now most baseline skills (drives, serves, return of serves) have been relegated to get the point started by getting to the kitchen. For this retired tennis player, the most fun I have on a pickleball court is the firefights, hand battles … so I would have no interest in doing anything that made that go away.
Ironically … I have found the increased spin with paddle improvements to move the needle towards that more balanced baseline and kitchen skills. Primarily one shot … topspin lob from baseline. In tennis doubles, if a team/player crowded the net too close, they were at risk of being beat with a topspin lob. The chess match of net positioning and the offensive lob made tennis doubles better not worse. I started with Prince Response Pro graphite paddle. Even though I arrived with a very good tennis forehand topspin lob … the combination of small court dimensions and insufficient spin (I will miss strings forever) made baseline topspin lobs a low percentage play. But then carbon, thermoformed, a bunch of Vatic Pro paddles and that too many errors gap shrunk. Now … with the Apollo … it seems very close to a good percentage play. Give me another 20% and I think it becomes a very high percentage play. FWIW … I’m thinking rec play, so not factoring in a Ben Johns running down all lobs and re-dropping them. So … I ask the question … is successful offensive topspin lobs from the baseline good or bad for the game. I think it disrupts the kitchen centric monopoly … but in a good way, doesn’t eliminate kitchen play but makes game less one dimensional.
FYI … a drive from baseline (tennis or pickleball) loses mph with added spin. The fasted you will ever hit is flat to near the baseline. Where spin shines in singles is angles, passing shots … and maybe someday topspin lobs. The other major spin factor in tennis is the heavy topspin ball that bounces up high in opponents strike zone at the baseline. Pickleball players should never ever say “heavy plastic ball topspin” … ever. 😂
I think we have enough power now … but should allow more spin from here. How much more … good question … but I don’t think Apollo+20% breaks the game.
Umm excuse me but who’s this handsome new co host?!?!?
That is interesting to hear about the Series 3 paddle. I ordered and received one in April which was (as they refer to it) a .1 model which has a blue edge guard- this was the only model in stock at the time. I was sort of underwhelmed by the grit and it definitely did not have enough to stick to a shirt like the Joolas. I reached out to them after a few weeks about the performance to return the paddle and got no response. To their credit it did get better over time and had a more consistent sweet spot. But I would by no means consider it a "spinny" paddle. It sounds like these new .2s have a LOT more grit and it makes me wonder what/when they were sent for testing.
So does a slyce cap speed your hands up or not?
I think paddles should be capped and more attention should be given to the balls. You can just as easily increase current spin or speed by changing the ball that is being used to play. Also if things move to a foam type ball, like the Gamma, you would lower the noise issues that pops up in some locations and I don't think there would be as much worry about getting bagged by current power paddles that many complain about currently(Getting pegged by a Dura vs a Gamma feels a lot different).
Something to ponder concerning spin. Some tennis pros serve 100 mph and others 150 mph. The difference among PB players is no doubt similar. The rpm of a PB ball relates to how fast the paddle crosses the ball and how much of that speed is imparted to the surface of the ball. Efficiency of the contact relates to the coefficient of friction and force generated by the speed of the paddle. I'm a senior that relies on side spin often. I have noticed that to much spin results in considerable slip on the court surface resulting in limited side kick. I'm sure you have had the following happen to you: an opponent miss hits a return which goes short and a little high with spin resulting in a shocking amount of side kick so you miss. I believe that the rpm together with the force of the ball due to the height of its drop results in almost 100 percent traction which really kicks the ball to the side and you miss.
Another subject: Differing grits of court surfaces is never taken into account not to mention court wear changes grit. Also what are the friction differences of different balls both new and warn.
In conclusion i suggest taking a gen one paddle and spraying 3M spray glue on the surface and do the to a softer ball brand. This should be about the that this is the most spin that could ever be put on a ball and be the new max standard for comparison. Have different rated players do the test to get some sort of range there . I think this would be so interesting to see how close some paddles are to this doctored paddle and ball spin test. A comparative percentage could be assigned.
Thanks for your time
Chris-your take on Proton is so spot on. I don’t care what the name of their technology is other gen 1 paddles are-they have a rubber face. Rubber is not permitted on a paddle face.
Also-visiting MSP this weekend. Will be playing early at St.Louis Park courts on Sat and Sun, weather permitting
In my opinion, spin shouldn’t be capped…the only thing that should matter is exit velocity…who cares about grit?? How is that a safety issue? Just let the manufacturers be creative with cores and surfaces and have a single test, using a standard machine measuring exit velocity and that’s that…we’re making this fun game way more complicated than it has to be!! 🤦🏻♂️
I don't like my kitchn bag because my sweat gets left behind on my grips after a long summer day and instead of air drying it stays wet in the water proof bag. Gross 😬 Never had this problem in other bags
Waiting for an update on the Proton Series 1 friction issue.....
Yeah, don’t even mention the dragon on the shoulder.
The women are mostly already playing from the baseline if you want a glimpse of what it will be if you up spin.
Vote Bearded dragon for Host of the PB Studio
Love MLP online.. Of course any sporting event is better in person.. Just how it is..😊
Am I the only one who thinks these pickleball bag prices are crazy?? when you can get a premium tennis bag for half the price!! meanwhile a PB bag is way smaller = less material..... not making sense in my mind.
Yo is Christopher the 4.5 version of Chris?
Charles seems like a sus kinda guy. Not a business I want to support. Thanks for the investigative work!
Got mine about a week ago and have been playing with it and don't see what all the fuss is about whether or not it should be legal. It's a good well built solid paddle but it definitely doesn't hit like the Gearbox which I've been playing against so it can't be the pop and as far as spin goes it's definitely good but can't really say it's any better then the Volair Mach 2 or Six Zero Ruby(whichI have and play with) so imo it's much ado about nothing. All those speculating I'm sure haven't seen or played with it. It'll play out and we'll see where it goes but till then all I see is a lot of assumptions.
I would love you guys to glue some rubber ping pong sheets onto a paddle and see what kind of RPMs you get with that. Would be interesting to see what the number is and how close it is to the top level spin paddles and know that the threshold should be between what we have now and the rubber.
I bought 3 hats with your code pls more codes!
I've played with/against people using the Proton and I have a hard time seeing why this would potentially be banned. Joola Gen 3, on the other hand, sort of wrecked the game. I know testing has to be precise, but this seems like more of a spirt of the law vs. letter of the law thing. I can't imagine anyone playing against a Proton and feeling like their opponent had vastly superior equipment.
Put Proton Nano Tack on a Pickleball ball and see what happens 😂
It would probably take care of the noise issue also!
I love this idea!
Love your podcast. I'm using a Hudef backpack right now, and I feel good about it.
Slyce cap would take less total weight to balance your head heavy paddle since the weight is farther from the balance point?
No offense to Will, but this is SO much better with Aizec and Chris.
Can you speculate as to why it’s literally been months now and the Ripple is still on the USAPA “approved” list??
Back to my Vatic Prism flash. It is (still) soooooooo good.
If you tuned in right when Chris said:
"....see if you care about adding weight to your butt." hhaha
Taking away ATPs would suck. Its such a unique and fun part of the game.
The kitcn bag is amazing! Minimal branding and is super sleek. I think the size is perfect
I couldn't get a code from Franklin. They said there's no code for something that's already discounted.
C H R I S T O P H E R
Thank you for your time. Always great stuff. AT MLP, there were some horrific line calls. Did you see on Thursday, Black Bears vs Florida Smash, how Esquivel lied on two baseline calls, IMO, the first one made the difference in winning the match. She wasn't even looking in the direction of the ball and she called them out, one overturned by her partner, Hewett. There were some bad calls but these were just blatant cheating.
Bought one. It came and I love it. Tell them to do another deal like that with you and I’ll buy two more :-)
I bought 2 Melin hats!! I literally pulled over on the side of the road and placed my order. 😂 I'm calling shenanigans with Proton. Very sketchy stuff.
Great pod as always. Are we going to get a Reload paddle review ?
Hey Chris, what paddles do you usually bring to a tourment?
Does usap test paddles for amateurs ?
No
Hey Chris, any update on when the PaddleTek ESQ-C 14.3mm and 12.7mm paddles will hit the market?
Chris - for the record there is no 20% coupon for signing up for the Franklin Clubhouse program right now. It is a $5 voucher as far as I could tell.
I signed up and got a 20% code in the verification email. But the code won't work for the balls because they are already on sale.
Weird, the 20% code worked for me.
@PickleballStudio Maybe they updated it after seeing some go through realizing they missed that. Seems like a common e-commerce management mistake.
@@PickleballStudio Franklin must've saw the pod and thought we don't want what happened to Melon to happen to us. Code didn't work for me either, the word must've gotten out.
Hey! I am from Duluth and I will be stopping in the twin cities next Tuesday for the first leg of a cross country pickleball tour and I am looking for a place to play…where should I be going?!
Used the 1oz butt cap for two play sessions. Strained the outer part of my hand. Did this happen to anyone else, or am I just old. It was as advertised, but never again.
Want to sell it? Lol
Played against a guy using the Proton A a couple of months ago and immediately my thought was, how can these paddles be legal? Even the deflection was insane!
Do you guys have plans to review the ADV bag that Will helped design?