Russell Moore on Political Disagreements | Doug Wilson
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- In this episode of Doug Reacts, Pastor Doug Wilson reacts to Russell Moore's thoughts on how Christians should disagree on political issues.
Check out Doug's book, "Angels in the Architecture" on Canon+
Use promo code DOUG99 to get your first month for 99 cents
mycanonplus.com/
Doug Reacts is an apologetics reaction series presented by @CanonPress
May Lord God, exalt pastor Doug Wilson in Christ to lead USA out of this mess and to the loving acceptance of Jesus.
"One mind" means the mind of Christ. Not the mind of the worldling.
Amen! Who cares if we all get along if our unity is in opposition to the Word?
"You don't exhibit biblical generosity with other people's money." Brilliant quote!
Too bad it is too simplistic and inaccurate. Churches display generosity all the time with tithes.
The difference is that money is freely given...@@manager0175
Doug’s rhetoric training enables him to accurately express a paragraph-long point with a zinger.
@@ApollosHagman_17 Good rhetoric provides entertainment, not truth.
@@manager0175 that’s like saying speaking provided entertainment nkt truth. Expressing ides well doesn’t change is they are good or bad, but that does not mean communicating it well is irrelevant so rhetoric matters.
Anyone who wants to defend that someone is being “generous” when they force someone else to give has dozens of scriptures to get around and none for support. Such absurd propositions should be mocked, and mockery should be humorous. Just as Paul mockingly asked the Corinthians forgiveness for not making them pay for his services
Moore totally sidesteps the issues the questioner brought up…….and brings up something to keep his leftist bonafides.
Yes, he's a pretty weaselly character. Even the Christian objection to subsidizing women who break up their marriages or have children outside of marriage, he turns into a kind of moment to rebuke a sort of libertarian criticism of those women no one actually made. The Bible talks about widows, not welfare queens.
Right off the bat. A single mom is not necessarily a widow. She very well be one of the women proverbs talks about.
You get more of what you pay for and what you support. At some point, there needs to be a stigma on single motherhood or it's going to continue to be normalized.
Curious that Moore didn’t talk about abortion. Which category is that? And does it have any implications for how I should vote?
Yes. He was asked about abortion, homosexuality, gun control, and he “answered” with Halloween and school choice. He avoided the original question.
I suspect he would be comfortable with Christians voting Democrat if the argument was made for spending tax dollars on Planned Parenthood to provide more sex-ed and birth control on the premise it would reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and resultant abortions. It's the two-paths-to-the-same-goal justification.
Maybe his point was that, like divorce, the Bible is absolutely clear on the subject of abortion?
Since Roe was overturned, we are jailing women for having a miscarriage. We are killing pregnant women by forcing them to endure very high risk pregnancies. Every place that has restricted (or abolished) abortion rights and access is leading the nation in infant mortality rates. How is that for "implications"?
You said: "Curious that Moore didn’t talk about abortion". Since Roe was overturned, we are killing pregnant women in record numbers, infant mortality, and we are jailing women for having a miscarriage. Why not talk about those direct consequences of outlawing abortion?
I love the Calvin And Hobbes reference to Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs.
The Bible establishes morality at every level including every nation on earth.
Exactly.
A Single Mom is neither a Widow nor an Orphan!!!!!
I just want to vocalize my appreciation of your Bill Watterson quote strait from Calvin and Hobbes. 😁
I was going to say the same thing!
What Russell Moore said would have been a lot better if he had said it 50 years ago. But with all respect it sounds a little “tone deaf” as they say given the current state of affairs as Doug Wilson pointed out in his wrap up at the end. Thanks for the video and thanks for giving Russell Moore a fair hearing like this and making the distinctions you did.
50 years ago?! .... maybe 70 or 80 or 100!
The very fact that the moderator asking the question has already capitulated to the language of the left in her “gay rights” terminology, and that Moore didn’t immediately refute it, is sad enough to reject anything else he said.
Yep. Not gay rights. Gay-ness
A city council member quoting James 1:27 to justify a public policy? Sounds a little like "Christian Nationalism"
I watched his entire presentation and the Q & A, at the request of a family member. You were more than fair. There were some excellent questions but most of the answers on critical issues were either sidestepped or meh.
There are two sides to the abortion, transgender, gay marriage and social justice issues. One side gives Biblical clarity one can draw from if they study scripture. The other is just someone’s opinion. This all seems to fall under seeker sensitive, don’t call sin a sin, can’t we all get along.
I wasn’t disappointed because I tried to keep an open mind and it went as I would have expected whether my mind were open or closed. I’m disappointed he has a large microphone. This kind of thing puts young Christians in the position of…oh I didn’t know this was a sin. That’s at best. At worst, this kind of teaching can help escort people to hell.
The answers to the questions asked are pretty black and white. But I don’t even understand how a professing Christian could ever support a party platform that is satanic. But that’s just me.
Completely agree. If any "Christian" votes Demoncrat at this point, I'd have to question whether they put their political affiliation above Biblical truth. I don't care how they try to spin it, if you're voting for a party that advocates killing babies, supports the gay rights agenda, etc, that is not in line with being Christian. The GOP is also repulsive, but not as bad. I'd sit out an election rather than vote Demoncrat
And sadly, there's a ton of churches who think(or maybe lack the balls to speak their mind?) the way Russell Moore does...
I agree. I can understand why a Christian might or might not vote for a republican. I cannot comprehend how a consistent Christian could ever vote democrat
I wouldn't say only two sides, but definitely there are certain sides that address it biblically or not. But there are some details that aren't as clear...
This is gonna be a good one! One of the best parts of my day is a Doug Reacts video! Top 10 anyways
Lord help me, Russell Moore gives me the creeps! There is something about him and the evangelical elites...to smooth at twisting things
I like the reference to Calvin & Hobbs (Chocolate Covered Sugar Bombs). 😅
The lady's question is, in my opinion, how to achieve like-mindedness in the Christian sphere. I did not even hear, and it may be due to denseness on my part, an answer at all to this question. For example, what I thought I was getting ready to hear would have been something like this or something similar: "Well sister, I would say has your church leaders called for prayer and a diligent searching of the scriptures to find the mind of Christ." Instead, what I heard was we all have differences of opinions/methods of/for various topics and not what's the right way to have like-mindedness. So then, what happens when the wise and the fool strive to be like-minded, don't they start looking like they just WOKE up? Therefore, the wise and the fool needs to find like-mindedness in Christ. Only in Christ, can the wise and the fool find salvation, which after all is the most important topic of all, at least for us humans, or gain the whole world and yet lose your own soul.
Now switching gears, "The bible does not make this huge distinction, as we do, between justice ah and personal morality." It's at this statement that pastor Doug does a one-handed eye rub. Putting that body language aside, is this statement true? Since pastor Doug remained silent on that statement, he'll have to share what he believes on this topic. Should we call for prayer and diligently searching the scripture to find out what Christ says about justice and our own "personal morality?" The personal moral example the speaker quickly gives is "I'm going Trick or Treating." I'm guessing the speaker is implying you have no right to judge me because I'm ruled by some unnamed principle. Of course you may say this example links directly to Roman's 14:5-6 principle. So then, what is or are "the principle(s)" that Halloween was established on, was it not the Samhain way that pagan Druids practiced? Now does our individual personal morals trump God's justice so long as our conscience does not send us alarm bells or could we be dead already and not know it? If so, then live whatever your "conscience" dictates to you or allows you to do, so long as it's in the "gray zone of principles." Hmm, I wonder if there are any examples of people in the Old Testament reaching out to the dead, break the barrier between both worlds and what was their consequence(s)? Shall the practice of druids, as long as Catholics embraced it, become Christ's mind and bring us all into a glorious like-mindedness or do I need to conform to Christ's mind? "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the LORD, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." But my personal morality should not cause God to not to receive me or judge me and paganism can be now embraced, after all Halloween is not called out by name explicitly in the Bible, but the principle I say, well that now needs a good back rub to remove that pain called historical practices? Was this a Trick or was this a logical Treat, so let your conscience be the judge. I know, not many "Christian" are anti-Hallowing and will most like embrace this practice, but is it in the mind of Christ? Yes, some of my fellow Christian want me to silence that alarm bell and eat the candies, but what about the Lord's body and blood, or is it the way of Druids? Since this generation is becoming WOKE, the cry is embrace it all, you can have the way of the Druids and the way of Christ. Ding dong... Repent!
Russell isn’t even like minded with his own self 🤦🏼♂️🙁
Doug and Canon - Thanks for helping me be more sharpened! Iron sharpens iron indeed. Was good to hear that we have SOME agreement with Moore on some things -- but I am still firmly entrenched against the welfare state and political liberalism.
Apparently you haven't read Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Political liberalism is always for the poor and middle class. "Conservatism" for the past 40 years has favored "supply side" and "trickle down" economics and massive tax cuts for the wealthiest. Which is Marxist economic theory. And the "Conservative" economic theory has been an abysmal failure for over 100 years..
Doreen Virtue had an interesting guest on her show a while ago about Christians and Halloween.
Based on what Moore said about automatically rebuking someone for calling out charity/welfare abuse, it makes me wonder he's one of these Christians who believes that abortion-seeking women are themselves victims. I say that because he strikes me as holding an emotionally-manipulative position about what isn't and isn't allowed to be considered regarding sensitive topics.
It’s hard not to suspect him of being apostate. We know he’s a leftist and a false teacher.
Great clarity as always, pastor 🙌🏼
Russell Moore never answered the questions that were asked.
Perhaps nitpicking, but the way the question was framed seemed to imply that both sides of the argument were up for debate within Christian circles concerning abortion and LGBTQ. Seems that it would have been better to use those as the slam dunk, Christians can’t affirm these example.
Russell Moore is DEFINITELY going trick or treating, and is DEFINITELY wearing a costume. It’s currently a coin flip between a character from Harry Potter and Hillary Clinton.
Clown costume.
I mean, he could dress up as a good leader of the church, but that might be stretching it.
You make a great comment here regarding Moore, and our society in general now, with so many 'exhibiting biblical generosity with OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.' This is not Biblical or the example Christ demonstrated. The Parable of the Talents comes to mind as one example.
What if Dr.Wilson know anything about a double blind test in Experimental Psychology?
Efficacy is only one factor in deciding whether a method is useful or not. All of the public school teachers I know tell me that the indicator of success for a child is how involved the parents are, whatever the method is. And, as a second generation homeschooler, I can attest to that in homeschooling as well.
The strong Christian parents who utilize public schools for whatever reason (and there are some legitimate reasons to do so) see their children growing up in the Lord as long as they are personally and intimately involved in their educational and spiritual lives.
On the flip side, homeschooling parents who put little to no thought into their children's educational and spiritual lives and instead just use homeschooling to legitimize their immaturity and laziness see their children grow up to hate the Lord just as much as they hate the way they were parented. I was one of those children and it is only by the grace of God I remain in the faith.
You really think there are legitimate arguments for forcing others to pay for your child’s education? Or the state being in charge of spiritual formation more than the church (teaching values, history, literature are all forming worldviews)
Wow… I gotta see what books in the Bible I’m missing. If efficacy is the only factor let’s ignore any command God gave to various institutions… vigilantism is only wrong if it doesn’t work well
The Bible prescribes THE CHURCH to care for widows and orphans and then only when said widow isn’t young enough to remarry and she doesn’t have children who should be supporting her. It’s not civil government’s job to demand or the struggling business owner’s job to capitulate to godless women refusing to bring themselves under the authority of the local church.
Yeah. A pastor especially should lead on what is right. You just end up saying everyone has their own truth because everyone is right in their own mind. Can’t go against the mind of someone.
If I were his position and got the question, my answer would have been very short. ‘If the Bible says no, it means NO. If the Bible says don’t do it, we Christian mustn’t do it’ and same with yes part as well.
It’s so confusing and hard how to live as Christian however it is what it is. That’s why Apostle Paul said in Philippians 2:12 work out your own Salvation with fear and trembling.
The Lord is coming…. Closer and closer 🙏
So we need to ignore all the OT prophets who spoke out against corporate sins apparently.
I don’t know that taking away from the Lord’s parable is all that intelligent. In my humble opinion, the better comparison would be that the Samaritan gave money and promised to return in a week’s time with more money, central to the argument, in this case, that helping the man to the hotel was only half the battle; it took selfless giving to solidify that help. In my humble opinion.
Calvin ate Chocolate Frosted* Sugar Bombs... smh
Someone is straddling a barbed wire fence (ouch) and you come along and shoot his theological fish in a barrel? Hmmm...CT readership is reportedly 260k...oh well I guess someone needs to do it. Good job Doug.
I agree with Doug Wilson in essense on a broad level, especially with the summary at the end about the church needing to be firm on corporate-level issues where our society is pushing clearly unbiblical views on the church (i.e. same-sex marriage, transgenderism, etc.). However, I feel that it was unfair criticism of Russell Moore in the example he gave of differing views on helping widows and orphans. I do believe that it comes down to personal ethics for a lot of political issues that are not in clear violation of Scripture. I thought Russell Moore's example was good, and I think it would be wrong for a pastor or church leadership to speak with authority to its congregants on something like raising the minimum wage, which I believe can be argued from both sides by faithful, God-fearing, Bible-believing Christians. I believe we need more unity, and the Word should shape our politics, not our politics shape our view of the Word.
While there are legitimate "things indifferent" left to personal conscience, the notion of personal autonomy that infuses our society will tend to broaden the categories where that principle gets applied. Because we do not have an explicit, intentional contra-mundum Christian culture operating -- and instead are mostly negotiating how the latest new thing promoted by the militantly secular culture can be baptized and added to "things indifferent" in the church -- the principle, true and biblical, is a kind of Achille's heel.
“…are mostly negotiating how the latest new thing promoted by the military secular culture can be baptized or added to the “things indifferent” in the church “
Perfect
So many Christian sects and churches who think and believe about Christ an the Bible in a babylonic mess of different teachings. And the so called Christian’s tell about… unity 😅😅😅😅
This is the best rebuttal I have heard to Nancy Wilson’s argument that vaccines are a method not principal…for those moms who read a lot of Doug and Nancy and see where she is ignorant on this issue.
I'm curious as to how vaccines- the category of medical treatment- are principles (I'm assuming this is what you meant). Vaccines are concrete, inanimate things which are sometimes good and sometimes bad for the person, sometimes sourced ethically, sometimes sourced from dead baby parts. In the end, however, vaccines aren't actually inherently moral/immoral objects. Morally, they're rocks.
Your comment is unclear
I don't appreciate scorn.
One thing I wonder though: Does this change if you are the person in a legislative position of authority? Specifically, concerning the issue of taxes and single mothers in need of help. If God has set authorities over the people, are they able to use that authority to the best of their ability to address issues in society? As Paul mentions in Romans 13:4, the authorities have the authority to punish evil by the sword, acting as an avenger to execute wrath on God's behalf. I understand there are limits with the comparisons - as in, it is cut and dry if a murderer is himself cut down by the authorities. I recognize that increasing or added taxes for a specific purpose is murkier than that. But I just think that there is a possible basis to do that if it really can serve the real need, and be done in such a way that it is not easily abused (as Doug pointed out with abusing charitable systems).
The problem here is that the government is crap at replacing private charity. The government should make the climate good for Biblical charity- through the church, hopefully-, not start a welfare state based off of excessive taxation.
So if I don’t pay for her bills, I am a wrongdoer and the force of the state should be used? It is clearly an abuse of power unless you think that, contrary to all biblical examples, the state should carry out God’s wrath on people for not paying for their neighbors education
It is simply not conceivable that Russle Moore does not understand the glaring difference between his hypothetical city councilmen and their concerns and approaches. He is not a stupid man...quite the contrary. That leaves only one other altrernative: he is a deceiver who drapes Bible verses over all sorts of deceptions and false teachings. He is a wolf who deserves constant and consistent rebuke until he repents in dust and ashes or passes from this world and receives the deceivers reward.
Yeah I think it’s clear he’s apostate
Be of one accord and one mind.
Be in accord with the Holy Spirit, and be of the mind of Christ.
@@Charles.Wright I'm too lazy to spell check.
The good Samaritan? Who is our neighbor? Christ made that clear is this story.
9:06 ' are there no takers?' amen. The abuse of charity is huge
Typical lukewarm obfuscating meaningless word salad from Russell Moore. My question is, who even cares and why would people actually go somewhere to listen to and ask questions of these kind of people? I mean, who has the time?
In real life, a single mom is not the same thing as a widow in the NT times. Paul would advice to get a new husband to start with. The extended family should take care of the person in the first place. Besides that, Moore is member of a certain political party, and his aim is to move "Evangelicals" over to that specific party.
Technicality: to start with, she should reconcile with the children’s father and marry
I tried listening to this but forgot how much I cant stand anything about Russell Moore including his annoying voice and when he speaks that means hes lying in one shape or form.
👍
This is why you dont listen to everyone….This gentleman seems very lost ….I will continue to pray 🙏 for you and all Christian nationalists that you will turn from your wicked ways and repent
What I appreciate about Wilson and Moore is that they are both thoughtful. I listen to them both for that reason. My hot take is that they both have blind spots.
Moore's blind spot here is in that sacred Baptist theology of the conscience. Spending a fair amount of time in Baptist circles (M.Div., SBTS), my impression is that Baptists give far, far too much credit to the (infallible?) role of the conscience in social life. Biblically, I would argue the conscience is far from perfect, is socially formed, and is in need of constant revision. The (Baptist) conscience formed by contemporary American society is in shambles.
Wilson's blind spot, at least in his criticism here, is his failure to acknowledge the "social " component of Biblical justice. Its nice and quippy to say "You don't exhibit biblical generosity with other people's money" but it just isn't so. This is a major problem for theonomy that ignores swathes of Biblical principle concerning what some might call "mandatory generosity": gleanings at the field's edge, the rich-young-ruler's dilemma, nearly everything in James, etc. etc.
That said, I greatly appreciate that both Wilson and Moore and willing to wade into these disputes with careful thought.
A single mom is not usually a widow. It is wrong to apply it that way.
Seems to me, this guy do not know about how Tax or Insurance works. It’s money from us, for us. Omg!
I know there’s a deeper point that Moore is trying to make, but comparing single moms to widows is a bit of an exaggeration. There are three single moms in my circle of friends; all three left their husbands because they were “troublesome”, all three have several suitors that they’ve decided were not good enough for them, two of them are being promiscuous in their pursuit of “Mr. Right”. Of course we all want things to work out well for these women, but calling them “widows” and throwing money at them might not be the best way to help. I guess that’s exactly what Doug is saying. Even Paul says: “Honor widows who are truly widows.” 1 Timothy 5:3
OK. So the burglar example was nasty. That was an asshole comment.
you can debate how far government should be allowed to help the poor but the reality is God made the government as a biblical institution. people need to be a liberal where the bible teaches current liberal thought. people need to be conservative where we are taught conservative principles in scripture. one political party does not have the lock on Christ likeness. though, in regard to morality, conservative notions more align in general. however, preachers, be careful imputing nationalistic or political overtones onto people where there can be issues of disagreement on issues of moral neutrality
The government, according to Romans 12, was instituted by God to punish evildoers and reward the good when working properly. It is beyond the God-ordained sphere of government to build social welfare programs and poverty relief. Their job is to distribute justice.
I appreciate your concern, however I encourage you to consider WHY government was instituted.
Romans 13:4 (ESV): [The government] is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.
1 Peter 2:13-14 (ESV): Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to [to = functionality] punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.
The Government's solely ordained purpose is the judicial system. That's it. First originating as a theme in Genesis 9.
Genesis 9:5-6 (ESV): And for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I will require it and from man. From his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man.
6 “Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed,
for God made man in his own image.
A couple questions I'd encourage you to ponder over.
1) If I try and make something operate outside of the ordained purpose it was made for, will it work? Ex: If try and have a toddler do my taxes, will it work? If I try and have an institution made for punishing operate as a (forced) charity, will this play out well?
2) Why is it that I automatically connect charity and the government? Why is that a given in the same way I connect homemade pies and grandma? Who conditioned me to think this way?
He is a compromiser
where the good samaritan isnt available pray there is a new deal program. some conservatives can watch you starve while fussing about government programs.
Both Biden and Harris gave less to charity than the national average for thoses in their tax brackets. The Bidens were earning over $300,000 a year back in 2008, but 10 years of tax returns showed they had only given $369/year to charity over that decade. Their giving is up, although some of that generosity is to charities they've set up. It should be noted, since we're speaking of unwed mothers, one of them is the mother of Biden's own grandchild, which he does not acknowledge.
The Obama's are a good example of liberal giving. Before he ran for the Illinois Senate, the pair were donating about 1%, on average, from annual incomes totaling around $240,000. Their giving rose over the years.
Hope all the best for Russell Moore, but he is someone who kinda makes me want to puke.
"Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty." James 5 : 4
Should we pay wages? 100%
Does raising the minimum wage help that? No. Because as soon as you increase the minimum wage, the standard of living increases at a greater rate, and this has been shown repeatedly throughout our history. Every time we raise the minimum wage, we end up with a richer 1% and more people in poverty.
@@Charles.Wright Nice summary of what I just said.
“You don’t exhibit biblical generosity with other peoples money” (07:30)
What peculiar hypocrisy! Doesn’t Doug tithe 10%? Where does he think the Kirk’s money comes from!?
Tithes are the result of people being voluntarily generous with there own money, which makes the money rightly that of the people to whom the money is given.
For example. if I give you money voluntarily, and you are generous
with that money, then you are being generous with your money.
On the other hand, If I take your money, by force or by threat of force, and I am generous with that money, then I an being generous with your money.
Does this clear up your confusuon?
BTW, I was laying into you today fir an uncharitable comment you made on Doug's post about the Dylan 'girl' and after my critique your comment vanished. Did you remove it?
@@zapazap have you just discovered Doug Wilson? You’re commenting on absolutely every one of his videos for!
You might have to go a little deeper into tithes vs taxes here, because they’re both compelled by various forces. It’s childish to suggest taxation is anything like theft.
Doug Wilson is some passé BS boy howdy
Widow, a woman who has lost her spouse by death and has not remarried.
A single mother also referred to as a “single mom” is an unmarried female aka single parent who has little to no support from the child/children's father. In most cases the father is completely removed from her and the child's life by choice or necessity and he provides minimal financial support.
Two different definitions, I don't think inserting this scripture for SJ is accurate.. Bible was clear widows not single moms... Orphan, a child whose parents are dead.
actually that is today's definition, look it up..
As Christians, Jesus didn't ask you to follow him he commanded you do so. Will the real Christians please stand up?.....crickets....🦗🦗🦗🤔
I pay my taxes
@Caleb P That most Christians aren't following Jesus, which is to love and take care of the downtrodden. Ol' Doug here is so wrapped up in judging others he has no time to share the love of Jesus.
@@virtualpilgrim8645 If only being a Christian were as easy as paying your taxes.
@@JumpJeho I am the downtrodden.
@@virtualpilgrim8645 the victimhood of the white nationalist is beyond parody!