Christianity Today’s Russell Moore on the Evangelical Church’s Future | The Atlantic Festival 2023
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2023
- Russell Moore sits down with Atlantic staff writer Tim Alberta to talk about the future of the evangelical church and the role of religion in the United States.
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I’m not religious. But the conversations evangelicals are having with each other about the meaning of Christianity and evangelicalism is inspiring.
This conversation so perfectly encapsulates my problems with the current evangelical movement and the Christian church in general. I really think every Christian needs to watch this so they can reflect because the more this contradiction continues, the further from the church im behind pushed.
At this point, i am finding myself questioning the content of the Bible itself. If people in this day and age with access to boundless information can be so consumed with misinformation and self-interest, how can i have any confidence that everything in the bible is accurate and really is the word of God even after countless individuals have written/transcribed/translated it between languages that dont really translate directly.
Ive iust fallen back to the core principles and stayed away from the religiousness until my faith in the church can be restored by a returning to the roots of Christianity they discuss here.
Because the Bible clearly portrays man as evil, dishonest, and craven? What did you expect, utopia before Christ returns?
Incidentally, the OT is more or less translated Hebrew -> English direct at this point, and the NT Greek to English. There's only a single translation step for each one. In the case of the OT we have multiple corroborating ancient translations like the Septuagint and Targums.
There's also the Dead Sea Scrolls and the rather embarrassing collapse of the scholarly consensus at the time they were found that Isaiah was written after the NT, etc, etc.
Catholicism draws some pretty clear lines. One of the most famous examples of which is slavery because nearly every former colony of Spain peaceably abolished slavery.
Well, for me, I know people think this is crazu, but if you knew my life story, and my family and friends life stories, we've had many experiences with the supernatural, miracles, knowing future events would happen before they happened, then it happened down to the detail, and the spirit always led me to the Bible, so I trust it. It led my mother and husband and brother and sister to the bible as well.
I am an ex-christian atheist who is deeply philosophically opposed to all high demand Christian beliefs. That outcome developed on my decades long de-convertion from evangelical Christianity. That outcome wasn't inevitable without a strong revulsion to right wing political fascism promoted by many churches. But every so often Christians come along who I find credible and convincing. These gentlemen fall in that group. These gentlemen make me more optimistic that a reconciliation between the faithful and the sceptical can be reached. That winners and losers are not an inevitable outcome of this growing culture divide.
@Per
As a non evangelical Christian theist, I greatly appreciate and live your comment.
I get along great with everybody - because I don't mistreat people ...
Well okay a few magats might disagree with me...🙂
Had Jesus wanted to play politics he would have been a Pharisee.
Or a Sadducee, depending on the brand of politics.
Luke warned Christians about politics and power in Luke 4:3-12. Satan offers authority over the world to Jesus, so that he may rule with righteousness, if only Jesus would bow down to him. Jesus of course rebukes satan, but I think anyone listening to this podcast would agree that evangelicals not only bowed down, they kissed both rings.
They are now trying to criminalize people with other beliefs. The lawmakers in state legislatures are trying to legislate every freedom even women have. Poor confused high school girls are being prosecuted for how they handle their surprise pregnancy’s. Events with Mike Flynn telling these people crap about the Watchers and 7 Mountain. MTG and others bolstering Putin, saying they are coming for the nonbelievers. You are going to start the Second Civil War thinking it will be different the second time.
You are dangerous, to our Country and Congress is the worst. Look at the America you’ve created. “Jesus wept”.
I left the Southern Baptists during the civil rights movement. There was also the problem of the Southern Baptists making a verbally inspired Bible the fourth person of the Trinity and limiting the power of its revelation. I saw the SBC way back then choose its culture over Christ and then began my long journey to find another denominational home only to realize none is perfect. Several offered a better environment in which to seek and to serve. I think the SBC in choosing Trump has had much to do with the decline of church participation.
Has it? There's been infighting within the Protestant denominations for decades, if not longer.
I am going through the same dissolution, BUT I am gaining JESUS and that feel so much more powerful!
@Valiza,
What do you mean by that?
6:08 This is the creeping syncretism that began in 1979 and has resulted in a church virtually indistinguishable from a political party.
Jesus wasn’t a Christian and is probably why there is no place to find his bones. He didn’t say follow the disciples , he said Follow Me! Men created Christianity for selfish reasons .
"Cicadas ... who go into dormancy between Iowa caucuses" deserves an Emmy!
The Culture fell apart when Jerry Falwell politicized the Evangelical movement.
No, it started when the Protestants decided it was a good idea to remove religion from the public schools in order to spite Catholics.
It was coming for a long, long time. Trump as per usual, will end it.
Don't forget the Wealthy Television Magnate Pat Robertson
Everything Trump Touches Does.@@apextroll
Dies
We just need to getnomback to the sermon on the mount. . . blessed are the peacemakers. Blessed are the poor in spirit. . . and Matthew 25. . . I was a stranger and you took me in. I was hungry and you fed me. . . a domain of public awareness that has been practiced by other denominations.
The lack of enthusiasm for the teachings from the Scriptures is overwhelming. The Church has been spoon fed for so long that they are satisfied with the minimum of knowledge of God's leadings and promises for His people. The attendance is haphazard on Sundays. The attention span is very limited. When a recent announcement was made of a fresh new in depth study of the Book of Luke beginning in our Bible study class on Sunday morning, I knew it would be necessary to put in a p.s. Bring your Bibles! So heart breaking.
Dr. Moore: would you agree that giving yourself over to Trump is akin to being given over to a depraved mind to do what ought not to be done?
"To hell with Christian principles we've got to save the church!" WOW!
I respect and admire Russell Moore and appreciate his courage and wisdom. I also believe he helped create the monster that has tried to eat him and was quite active in American culture wars before Trump came along…and when you give yourself so completely over to an identity associated with an institution like SBC, dissolution is inevitable.
The church is made up of people, which are led by a pastor. It’s the pastor who is supposed to teach from the Bible. When he doesn’t, then his congregation is going to reflect, for the most part, what he’s teaching. So, Mr. Moore and Mr. Alberta, please say that the pastors aren’t teaching scripture but are including politics into their sermons. Our former pastor voted for Trump in 2020, he repeated the same things so many are saying in churches: the culture…we’re in the last days…, and so on. I wanted to tell him after the service that church wasn’t the place for politics, but my husband held me back. Christians, we must, absolutely must, be like the Bereans who checked scripture daily to see if what the Apostle Paul was teaching them was correct.
Pro-life doctrine requires a response from the congregation. You can't vote for abortion and escape God's judgment.
You are SO right. Many pastors have twisted scripture and perverted important ideas regarding women, marriage and the family and now of course politics. They have personal and political agendas and shouldn't be in the pulpit but when they are it's essential to speak up, remove them or find a church that follows the Word of Jesus.
Amen thank God for sharing the truth
As an atheist, I tell people that no one can promote the virtues of atheism better than Christians.
Dr. Moore. Dr. Ebbie Smith said Principles are few and rarely change.
Values are many and depends often on various factors.
Love you Brother
DrScottD
Loved it!
I don't believe that America was founded as a Christian nation. But I do believe that the gospel is our birthright. It is the root and the offspring of the Bill of Rights. That we are saved by grace through faith trusting in the cross and the shed blood of Yeshua for our justification and for our redemption. This man gives me hope that we will not trade our birthright for money and political power. Very encouraging.
Personally I think it is crystal clear that the US was born from the Secular Humanism that grew out of the Age of Enlightenment. It was largely the first post-Christian world in the Western Hemisphere. You read founding fathers and it's clear they didn't want Religion to be tied to the state, like post Civil War England. The Civil War in England in the mid 17th century left Puritans in charge after they killed the King, and it was so bad for England, they went back to the monarchy.
@@dancahill9585 Madison credited Luther (not Locke, as is wrongly taught) with the inspiration for the 1st Amendment: It illustrates the excellence of a system which, by a due distinction to which the genius & courage of Luther led the way, between what is due to Cæsar & what is due to God, best promotes the discharge of both obligations. The experience of the U.S. is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting Usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious & civil polity, neither could be supported.
@@SeanusAurelius "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.... During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."-
James Madison
@@SeanusAurelius "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries."
James Madison
@@SeanusAurelius "Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history."- James Madison
I've read the book of John and thought about Jesus, but it doesn't do anything to help me become Christian. I was hoping Russel Moore had some better advice on Alberta's last question.
This was wonderful.
Don the Con is the opposite of a Christian, you will see him on the golf course on Sunday morning.
Beatitudes:
Blessed are:
Poor in Spirit vs. proud
Meek vs. forceful & aggressive
Hungry & Thrist for Righteousness vs. seeking your own pleasures
Merciful vs. vengeful
Pure in Heart vs. evil heart
Peace Makers vs. looking for a fight
Thank you.
Right on! CHRISTIANS Speaking hard truths!
"Depart from me you worker of iniquity" Psalm 6:8. Also echoed in the New Testament Matthew 7:21-23. The guy clearly knows his bible. In his current role as the Editor in Chief and the Director of the Public Theology Project at magazine Christianity Today, Russell Moore remains an influential figure in (some) evangelical circles.
A small thought. If the foundation of hope to have rest from our own works is Jesus Christ and His Way opened for our faith to grow, we must believe that the burden of our own works be lifted in His drawing of all men, at any cost to our own will.
There no greater example of the hypocrisy of evangelical Christianity than the decision by many evangelicals to embrace Donald Trump. I left the Church and find Stoic philosophy as a much more fulfilling way to live my life.
Except that the creator, sustainer, and redeemer of the cosmos is ignored. It seems that contentment that is grounded in platitudes or philosophies seems to eventually come back found wanting.
I'm inspired by the Stoics
9:01 An astute comparison, especially if you consider the root meaning of purgatory. It is a place and time for purging and cleansing. Our opportunity to get our own house in order.
Great
AMEN 🙏🏻 17:44
14 years ago I met my partner, a black Christian. Im a white Atheist. My partners parents (Strong Evangelical folk) took me aside and said that I could never be accepted as my core values were no there's,
I remember thinking, "yeah, im pleased about that.
Good job on proving them wrong. 🙄
Matthew chapter 7 speaks volumes about the evangelical churches in America.For the love of money is the root of all evil. What would Jesus Christ say about those who support and worship the likes of Donald Trump?
Fighting against Trump with fervor is the same idolatry of politics, money, and power as calling Trump a savior. Christ is Lord. Matthew 28:18-20
A whole lot of hitting the nail on the head is happening during this conversation.
You guys are amazing! I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it is not secularism that is the problem! The thinness of the Christ worship is totally off-putting and DRIVES people like me away from the church. A whole bunch of people are without a spiritual home thanks to Christians. It is too bad. I personally just try to imagine what Jesus would do in a given situation but it is a path for me that is without companions....
EXCEPT FOR YOU GUYS! THANK YOU AND KEEP IT COMING, BRETHREN!
26:43 Christians need to reclaim the arts.
Christianity ("Church") and State were always fused together from the 4th century until relatively recently. And during that time, Christianity grew enormously. So, you may argue that genuine Christianity finds its home on the margins of society but, historically, that is not been true of Christianity in general.
A man with humanism and pragmatism at his core....and yet, still a deep belief in his faith. Very rare.
Church and state are doing helper of the family gift roles not family member being identities in need of union.
American stop voting against your interest. All Republicans independence and Democrats unite together vote together and let's finish what we started We want to rebuild infrastructure which is important and lower the price of bills. Joe Biden has the economy working vote blue and turn Texas blue Vote blue and turn Texas blue 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙 vote blue and turn Texas t00. I'm 63 a lifelong Democrat and I'm asking all of y'all join us Democrats give us a chance at Texas It's never been a Democratic let's do it. 💙💙💙🙏😇
Follow the money. WHO pay Him? The unGodly organisation too!
In the last days many will fall away
Evangelicalism will go the way of Ariansim or Befolded into Judaism. ❤😂🎉
I'm listening in hopes of hearing contrition, humility, shame and honesty. Rationalization and herd mentality are your pathways which I have experienced. And let me offer you hopes and prayers and a few words of advice. Stop using the term, "the people who killed our lord and savior", drop the premise that all people of our world must convert to Christianity. Develop some humility and respect that maybe other peoples have a worthy perspective on the spiritual life. And shut up. Live a life that inspires without spouting off the memorized quotes from the bible that ring hollow.
This guy is a wolf
Are you really
Trust in. The Lord and Pray Come Jesus Come
I think it’s hilarious to watch religious people strive and fail, to guess or know, apologize or admit that their efforts to understand or explain the wants, desires or intentions of their imaginary savior.
If "God" existed, none of these conversations would exist. If "God" existed, there would be no division amongst its' followers.
That's silly, the whole central theme of the Bible is that man is fallen and sinful. Christ himself said that tares would grow among the wheat, and Christ himself had Judas as a follower.
Not silly at all. @@SeanusAurelius
@@sandorski56 I also don't think it's silly. Why would God give people so many different answers when they pray and ask him his opinion on gay marriage, abortion, communion, how to be saved, etcetera. A God that actually existed would give people no room to doubt its existence, yet even Christians doubt, setting aside all the non-believers.
@@EatHoneyBeeHappy Man cannot comprehend as God comprehends. Furthermore, bear in mind that one of the aspects of Protestantism is Private Judgement.
Sounds like you think you have a monopoly on truth.
We're "losing our religion" yet religion has not had this much political power since the esrly 1600s. It runs Washington DC.
Can`t tell if you are joking or not. Washington is Sin City -Full of Godless deal makers who take God`s name in vain by claiming to be Christian. A shameless parody of faith. Just like the unGodly Zionists among the Israelis not being truly Jewish and having mercy and the American Christian nationalists are not Christian but only ignorant misguided dupes in a political plot that Trump supporters and and others hatched to seek power by miming real values and division... Do not be fooled- America has always sought to be and is now the toy of the opposition to Father Son and Holy Ghost. We have a heavenly country where God will live here with us . He will come.
The evangelical church traded religious faith for political power!
If religion ran D.C., then the country would not be in the state that it's in.
The Evangelicals supported and voted for Trump. That’s reason enough to outlaw the religion. Ok, we won’t do that, but, we definitely need to tax all of the religions, tax anything that they own. It’s past time for real separation of church and state.
Not gonna happen, nor do evangelicals represent all ppl of faith.
Among Trump supporters, fervency is inversely correlated with church attendance. Lots of non-religious people love Trump, but they thought religious people like Santorum and Romney were weird. Trump is a substitute messiah for people who do not have a prior commitment to the real messiah (let the reader understand).
No need to outlaw it. Just treat it like we treat cigarettes.
@@jamesparson Huh? We tax the hell out of cigarettes. Religions, as non-profits, are not subject to taxes.
@@arimathean4128 They should not be treated as non-profits. It is obvious they exist to make money. They don't even have to show that their product/service does anything.
Jesus would not vote for Donald Trump. Jesus knows the man is too WICKED and Sinful to serve.
IMO, the biggest problem with Christianity is othering. Their ultimate belief is dividing humans into two groups and discarding one. We'll never move past tribal thinking with that as a worldview.
Christ described how the world is divided into two groups and he will discard one. Repeatedly. The wheat and the tares (Matthew 13:24-30). If the world is divided, you'd be wrong not to recognise it.
Unless the interpretation of wheats and tares, sheep and goats is wrong.
@@SeanusAurelius NO this is incorrect. Christ described the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, NOT THE WORLD.
Matt 13:24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
This dividing isn't done until after one's life on earth so NOT in the world but after this world.
then you are missing the point. Christians are led to spread the word of christ to the world because they believe christ is the pathway to heaven and they want people to go to heaven. How is that othering? You can choose to believe them or not. Do you say the same things about Islam or Judaism?
So many Christians, so few lions.
The Lord loves his lambs that trust Him enough to follow Him. He knows our names even if hidden.
:)
@JohnDoe-Ic9yj You bring up a good point. Despite the never-ending persecution complex of Christians in America, they have forgotten what it means to be truly afraid. They have had power and have been persecuting others so long they forgot how it feels to be persecuted by the powerful.
Mind Bogle ing
What's wrong? Get out of politics!
A Southern Baptist neighbor. a leader in a huge church, told me Jimmy Carter was not a good Christian, but Donald Trump is.
😮 😢 smh 🤦♀️
Then why is Trump pulling a 180 on abortion? He went from campaigning on overturning Roe v Wade to criticizing Florida's 6-week bill and saying that we need to focus on winning elections instead of abortion as if the two are mutually exclusive.
What a pity you continually talk about being a southern Baptist, a conservative evangelical Christian, . A Protestant Christian. Why not just a Christian. You narrow down your identity and close off much that is good within the wide breadth of the Christian faith.
It's helpful to understand what he believes, just saying Chistian tells people almost nothing. For example there are Christians who don't believe in a literal resurrection. There are universalist Christians, annihilationist Christians, violent Jesus army Christians, passive Quaker Christians, etcetera.
Not all branches of Christianity are the same, or are you going to claim that Protestantism and Catholicism are fundamentally interchangeable?
The Old Testament was copied word for word from the Enuma Elish and the Emerald Tablets of Thoth written 450,000 yrs ago! Thoth was the ET/Annunaki/Sky god or Priest King of Kemet (eons before Egypt).
UCLA has free public access to a computer program which translates these ancient tablets and texts into 80 different languages. King James added 4 letters to the English language in 1611: I K J & V: I King James am from the Virgin. KJ thought he was Lucifer: The Light of the Father. The last sentence in the KJV New Testament: Christ is the light of the Father. Lucifer and Christ are two sides of the same coin: 3D Duality😊
Nonsense... this is a delusional concept that has NO evidence.
Lol have you actually compare EE to OT? Shares some themes and literary structures but the messages, from my own study, are completely different (e.g. humans merely being slaves of the gods X humans being made in the image of God). But what do I know? Could just be a bunch of hocus pocus.
The history/origin of Jewish beliefs are fascinating, thank you for encouraging me to research more into this Enuma Elish and Tablets of Thoth!
You failed cause you got involved in politics.
You know what's really funny? The word church in the Greek it's not in the New Testament; the word is ekklesia and translated into English means called out. The ones that Jesus chose, he called them out, called-out of what? Called-out of Judaism!
??? The word 'ekklesia' appears more than 100 times in the NT. In early Christian usage, it meant simply 'assembly' or 'congregation' - i.e., a gathering of people. It was used as a Greek translation of the Hebrew 'qehal'. The more literal definition that you cite harks back to ancient Greek practice of calling together the leaders of the people for public business.
Called out of the world culture. Sat apart spiritually while still residing in the Godless world