He was in an episode of The Avengers (the proper ones, 1960s) and managed to be thoroughly menacing while wearing a granddad style purple woolly cardigan.
When I was a kid, I figured Vader became more important rank wise in Empire, because half of the high ranking Imperial Officers died in the Death Star explosion.
Rezzy right. I agree here that he's "unofficial" in the structure of the military iN ANH, but with the destruction of the death star and the death of Tarking among probably many others, Palpatine promoted him to head of the Fleet afterwards, as he needed a strong ruthless leader to crush the rebellion. It made sense to me as a kid.
Rezzy that's fine theory , but it just didn't match the prequels. Vaders position under this Tarkin characater doesn't make any sense at all once you've seen the prequels
There is a ton of stuff from the original trilogy that doesn't make sense after watching the prequels. That's why I'm convinced that George Lucas had never planned on doing 9 movies, or even 6.
The Adventuring & Camping School, Thailand Maybe, but I did say, "when I was a kid", and we didn't have the prequels to go off of. Even with the prequels, just since Vader was Palpatine's apprentice, it doesn't automatically make him 2nd in command of the whole Empire, especially when he was a 20-something year old.
Luke Davis but he also reduced employment to 0, only the funeral industry has risen up to 100. (*whispers: "wait, no bodies left?") scratch that, the funeral is dropped to 0, as well.
My theory is after Vader cartoonishly yelled "NOOOOOOOOO!!!" at the end of Revenge of the Sith, The Emperor decided he wasn't ready for that much responsibility yet.
At the end of return of the jedi, when palpatine is using force lightning on luke, the emperor says "now you will die" to luke as he is zapping him, at which point vader grabs palpatine and throws him down the shaft while screaming "NOOOOOOO" i believe the end of revenge of the sith is a parallel and nod to that moment in a return of the jedi when vader redeems himself saves luke and destroys the sith lord, emperor palpatine. just saying they did that shit on purpose. while it was an epic nooooo in return of the jedi at the end of revenge of the sith it was kinda too late but in return of the jedi it was in the heat of the moment lol.
If you've read the novel "Tarkin", you see they end up almost as friends, acknowledging each other's strengths. So when Tarkin tells Vader to stop choking the imperial guy, its more of a "Hey man I think you proved your point, let's chill k?" They don't try to outrank each other.
I agree. I never really, saw it as Tarkin ordering him around either. They have a mutual respect for each other and are usually on the same page. Whenever Vader's seen ordering around other Moffs etc you can tell he sees them as being inferior officers who he has no respect for, which is indicated by some sense of failure or short coming on their part.
Cameron Walker Exactly. It was kinda like the relationship Anakin had with Obiwan. Even though Obiwan like Tarkin, knew Anakin/Vader had a hotheaded temper, they both knew he respected their leadership abilities enough not to argue against their advice.
I agree I never saw it as ordering around other then Leia's comments. Its just he is the only guy that Vader will listen to when he is force choking someone.
what ever floats your boat but you're theory falls apart when even the rebels know tarkin controls vader, leia - Governor Tarkin, I should've expected to find you holding Vader's leash!! he outranks him pure and simple vader wasn't a good leader or tactician tarkin was, the emperor probably assigned tarkin to keep an eye on vader in case he tried to take over and to point him in the right direction because vader tended to destroy everything friends and foes so good old tarkin would keep him in check if you noticed in empire vader kill more imperial officers than the rebels
+flaggerify I think that you are correct. When Episode IV was released, Alec Guinness and Peter Cushing were probably the only actors in the film who were well known. Cushing was a veteran type-cast villain who was known for multiple key roles in the horror genre. Even though Tarkin and Vader are somewhat sharing the designation as the film's 'heavy,' Lucas may have felt that actor Peter Cushing's character must not be diminished by answering to anyone onscreen. So even though we hear of an unseen Emperor who is ultimately in charge, Lucas demonstrated that Cushing's character is the senior antagonist that we see until Episode V.
@@gcsalzer The Emperor wasn't even in episode 4(just mentioned briefly), I don't think Lucas had even planned for him to even be able to use the force at that point.
OldLeatherHands&Friends Somehow I cannot see Vader as someone who would lie like that. Also he might have actually be griefing about some of the people who died on the Death Star. Almost his entire personal guard was on it and Tarkin called Vader "my friend".
germanvisitor2 yeah bud Tarkin could have been messing with Vader. like calling someone "buddy',"friend". Vader had no true feels for anyone but himself at that point, then his kids later on.
OldLeatherHands&Friends Actually vader was still close to his clone troopers especially to the 501st but most of them were killed during the battle of yavin.
it was simply because lucas didn't think he'd get this far in his series. He made things a certain way with no idea how to proceed, such as the instance when obi wan calls anakin "Darth" as if it was his first name. After he saw how much of a success a new hope was, he tweaked the whole story.
Joshua Amaya Or the fact the Tarkin was "Grand Moff"... that controls all military operations.. if Lucas gave him the title then Im sure he thought about it. It makes sense that Vader would take orders from him
Earlier, Obi Wan said he was NAMED Darth Vader. Plus, he said he was a Jedi named Darth Vader. (Wouldn't he have ceased to be a Jedi when he became Darth Vader?)
...and, despite everyone criticizing Tarkin's CGI resurrection for "Rogue", I thought it was masterfully done and a fitting tribute to Cushing's legacy.
Sometimes I realize in the original Star Wars film, he was the main antagonist of a new hope before Vader took over. And at first I thought he’s no longer useful but yet he’s still a fan favorite for most occasions especially in the bad batch series.
Peter Cushing stood unfazed and commanded his scenes in the prescence of the Voice Of the Ages AKA James Earl Jones. If that aint gangsta, i dont know what is.
For A New Hope, at least, I think David Prowse spoke his lines during shooting and JEJ's voice was dubbed in in post. Apparently this pissed Prowse off so that he didn't even speak his lines in the next two movies. There's a video about that too...
The real reason is Darth Vader wasn't the main antagonist of the film. Peter Cushing's a wonderful actor and far more expressive than a mask. Vader was simply the muscle.
It was a classic set of tropes. Tarkin is the Evil Lord and Vader is the Black Knight. We see the same thing in most Robin Hood stories where Prince John is the leader behind it all but the Sheriff of Nottingham is the primary and physical antagonist.
Also at time the first movie was released darth vader was only intended to be an attack dog. However the fan reception for him was so great lucas re-wrote him as the main villian. apearently some other major last minute changes included vader not being lukes father, and han dieing at the end of the second film with luke and leah hooking up at the end.
Don't forget that Tarkin was a GRAND Moff. There were only a few of them and Tarkin was the first. Further, up until ANH, Vader's sole purpose was to hunt down and destroy Jedi and other rogue force users. Primarily by himself or with the various elite agents he employed. It wasn't until shortly before ANH and the extinction of the last few Jedi that Vader began to be seen more among the ranks of the regular Empire. It's like how in Rebels - a few years before ANH - he's sort of this shadowy myth that's very rarely seen. Up until that point he's been purging Jedi - and there are STILL some left. Grand Moff Tarkin has been active both in hunting down Jedi AND the actual day-to-day activities of the Empire - so he's the one who'd be giving orders. Plus, from what we see in ANH, Vader doesn't really seem to CARE that he's taking orders - he also doesn't really seem to care about who's in charge either. The orders he takes from Tarkin are almost always orders he agrees with - the rest of them TRY to order him around or intimidate him and they... well, they're dealt with :P Vader respects Tarkin - the rest of them could twist in the wind as far as he's concerned. It isn't until he finds out about Luke that he begins considering a future for himself - making himself less of an enforcer and more of a commander. Before that point what else WAS he beyond an enforcer? With the last of the Jedi dead or dying did he even have a purpose? I agree with the comics that Vader realizing the truth and the significance of Luke was what REALLY turned him into the Vader we saw in ESB and ROTJ.
I also feel like that the Emperor would have given him (Tarkin) some official posting, and it just doesn't have an official title. With Legends he is over seeing the Maw as well. So while he has a political posting, he might have been dual hatted to be in charge of all specialist Military Projects. Vader is just a Sith Apprentice at first, later a Master, then he gets made C-i-C of the Imperial Fleet, effectively head of the largest military force, the Navy. We do know he had influence through the Emperor, he had Devastator given to him as sort of a permanent flagship to go hunting the enemy. It is implied he had it before the events of Rogue One as his flagship.
TEGRULZ He finally had the executor as his flagship. The authority Vader had after being given command of the imperial fleet, was basically the authority Tarkin was to the Death Star. They both were the top authority of their own military forces, but Tarkin having served even in the republic government, rose to a higher authority faster.
Even though the Vader comic got a little too weird in some places that I'd personally like to forget about, I still love the payoff at the end. It really did a great job at setting up the ESB Vader.
Which is why purging the old EU is not without benefits. Although great things were lost like KOTOR and Thrawn trilogy. There is a new opportunity to actually have semi decent quality control that was lacking the last 40 years and retroactively work back in some of the concepts and pieces that were lost in the Disney purge.
Connor Brady I agree. I'm not super well-versed on the old EU, so the purge didn't hit me too hard. However, just from watching this channel I've learned about a lot of Legends material that just sounds absolutely absurd. It's not all bad, but a lot of it should have no place in the current canon. The cohesive universe we're getting now is mostly fantastic, and nobody at Lucas is going to take away my enjoyment of my favorite Legends stories. Honestly, anything that takes place thousands of years before the movies works better under a Legends banner, in my opinion. When you look at those stories like a literal legend within the SW universe, it just makes the most sense. Darth Bane exists, but was he a muscular bald dude from the books, or the samurai-looking guy as depicted from TCW? Let the reader/viewer decide.
Anthony Warren Vader respects the heirarchy. he only thought the Jedi were weak because they failed to act but the empire satisfies him so he lets it function for his purposes. he couldn't take over the galaxy single handedly. it's his army but it's run by those with more specialized experience in command.
Darth Vader was only an enforcer of the Emporer... Tarkin was his right hand man, Imperial Governor, and Grand Moff ( a sort of Field Marshall) who was head of the entire military. Tarkin's job was to fulfill the wishes of the Emporer and it was Vader's job to ensure they were carried out.
Based solely on the movies, I always thought of it as who was in charge of that particular mission. Such as in the military, when two officers of equal rank must work together. If it is officer A's unit/mission/ship/whatever, officer B becomes subordinate. The Emperor sent Vader there to be his eyes and to reinforce Tarkin's authority on a spaceship the size of a moon. With that kind of population, there is a good chance of mutiny, rebellion and other political machinations. That's how I always thought of it, anyway. Nothing complicated.
Makes a lot of sense. Vader is a visitor, DS is under Tarkin’s command, Vader listens. Have prior respect for Tarkin definitely helps. Notice how ALL of the other officers are young? Tarkin was in the Clone Wars and served WITH pre-Vader. That builds a bold and respect.
Maybe Tarkin summoned him? Or perhaps there were prison and interrogation facilities on the Death Star that weren't on the Devastator? It seemed like a flaw in the story for him to not personally oversee the retrieval of plans from Tatooine. But I can see the Emperor needed Vader to be on the Death Star when it became operational to make sure it wasn't used against him. In _Star Wars: The Radio Drama_ Darth Vader tells Tarkin "The Emperor should be consulted!" with regard to destroying Alderaan. To which he replies, "Do not think to challenge _me!_ You're not confronting Tag or Monty now. The Emperor has given me free a hand in this affair, the decision is mine!"
I like the comparison. I also think had A New Hope been made more recently, Charles Dance would have been a good choice for Grand Moff Tarkin, and vice versa in regards to Cushing playing Tywin.
Elias Arndt Smart analogy. The SS had all the power but the official power. There were still hordes of Party functionaries and non SS hitler confidants.
In fact, Tarkin was not in the initial drafts (at least not as an imperial character). Lucas added Tarkin as the imperial authority figure because he didn't want the audience to see Vader as all powerful, but rather as being in service of the Empire and not in control of it. This was before the Emperor became the powerful sith lord that we know today.
the real reason is cause tarkin was played by peter cushion (doctor Frankenstein) and vader was David Prowse (Frankensteins monster). Lucas was a obvious fan of the hammer horror Movies, which is why we later got Count Dooku, christopher lee (previously Count Dracula). That's probably where we got vaders cape and the choking from, the hammer Dracula did on various occassions choke his underlings out... XD
He was always a central character as he was to confront Obi Wan. What changed is his exact role in the empire... I think in the original conception of SW the Emperor was not even a force user, so Vader was just the "last Jedi", the one who aided the empire and thus found a place in it.
Because Star Wars was never intended to be more than 1 movie regardless of what Lucas says and then they added the subtitle A New Hope later on to tie the first one in. It's clearly a 1 off movie. Vader was re-written to have more powers and a greater backstory.
Poolemon wasn't it. only when luke mentions him to his aunt and uncle they seem to have a disturbed look on there face. and even when ben is talking to luke. you see he feeling uncomfortable.
Lucas was quite clear on this issue. His original script was ridiculously long, so he took the first section to do as a single movie. I imagine that is why we have two death stars. The other parts were expanded and developed into TESB and ROTJ at later dates. It works as a standalone because A New Hope was designed to be a standalone. There was this whole story that he had, but if the original was a financial failure we'd probably never have even known about it.
The last time we see Vader in a new hope is him spinning off into space in a damaged ship. For all we know that was meant to be his death (They probably would have shown the ship explode, but it's still a possibility). As for the Father twist, that was apparently added very late into Episode 5's production, and there were several scenes that were almost in the movie like Luke meeting his father's ghost before fighting Vader and Vader's big revelation being that Obi-Wan killed Luke's father.
+joseph monaghan Han Solo was young in A New Hope. Rogue One takes place immediately before A New Hope, so if we indeed see Han Solo he should be young.
The Raven Rogue One takes place when the Rebels are stealing the Death Star plans to transfer it to Leia, but I also believe they will be captured and tortured and will become the Knights of Ren
If you read the novelization of Star Wars (written by George Lucas), Vader was plotting to kill Tarkin as he felt he was too ambitious. It wasn't a priority, but it was definitely on his 'to do' list.
no he wasn't. He's not going to be in the movie. although he most definitely should be considering what the movie is about. tarkin was a huge player and influence at that time.
The Sith Rule of Two requires the Sith Apprentice eventually murder their Master. Palpatine would have to be a complete and utter imbecile to place a planet-destroying battle station into the hands of his apprentice, who was supposed to kill him. Notice that in RotJ, once the second Death Star is operational (but not mobile) and Palpatine arrived to take charge, he promptly kicked Vader off of the station and sent him back to Executor. Vader's job description was closer to "Whatever the Emperor says", and his authority was limited to what Palpatine allowed. Hence, Vader might be assigned to take orders from others as Palpatine deemed appropriate.
True to a point, but he wasn't JUST a heavy. He was the sole user of the dark side of the force, he killed Luke's father and had the back story with Obi-Wan. There was more weight to his character in the story than there was with Tarkin, even before the Empire Strikes Back twist.
True. Lucas tried to repeat the trick with Boba Fett. Much hype before Empire came out. A new masked villain, the first action figure to be released from the sequel, anticipation galore. Then all he did was follow the Millennium Falcon (no more significant than the long nosed squeaky thing who follows Luke and Ben in SW), then takes Han away as frozen prisoner. Big deal, but the merchandise had already begun to shift.
I think that they just respect each other. As far as I can remember, the only order that Tarkin gives to Vader directly is when he orders him to stop choking that one other admiral in the meeting room. Vader complies, but it doesn't seem like he was forced to. When Leia says that Tarkin is holding Vader's leash, she's just echoing what the arrangement looks like from the outside. It was more of a taunt than a fact. She doesn't actually know anything about their relationship.
I always thought it was because the Emperor was being his usual machivellian self. He sent Vader to keep an eye on Tarkin, but subordinated Vader to Tarkin, that way they both keep each other in check and make it difficult for either of them to seize control of the death star and use it against the emperor.
Yoda wasn't even gonna be in Star Wars. Oldest character in Star Wars with no back story on his existence. He was only added because Obi-Wan was killed off.
Really? Not Sonny? Sonny was often put in check by Tom Hagen. And isn't Vader's temper more comparable to his rather than the emotionless, mentally challenged Brasi's. Plus, Sonny's love child winds up taking the helm in Godfather III, much like Anakin's son Luke. I'm seeing more parallels there.
You know...you're right! Sonny was pretty fierce, and it took a hail of bullets to bring him down. If Brasi didn't get choked out in the beginning then maybe we could have seen him flex his supposedly Sith-like muscle.
Except that Vader had more long term calculating goals against his 'Don' The Emperor (taking him down and putting himself and Luke in charge) than Luca ever did against Don Corleone in The Godfather. But still a great analogy on your part. :-)
From the little bit I read - Luca was so savage that even The Don "fears him and becomes nervous whenever they meet". I got the feeling that the Emperor was probably always on guard whenever Vader met with him face to face. Also, it's rumored that Luca Brasi decapitated the horse and stuck it in the old guys bed - you can't get more sith-like than that! :D
Storyline: Vader still had much to learn. What better way than from a general when The Emperor was busy with other things. Reality: Tarkin was the true villain and Lucas probably didn't expect Vader to get as popular as he did when he was making the original film.
I think that fans don't like to see the "Realistic" reason of the Vader's subordination to Tarkin... but it is the true. The emperor didn't exist during Ep IV ... that actually wasn't Ep IV, it was just SW. Everything was created for Ep V and they try to fix Ep IV so they can sleep at night...hahaha
Cristobal Padilla Exactly this! Funny enough, I have a very old tape version of the German version - back then, the title "Star Wars" was translated to "Krieg der Sterne", and that was the title of the film. Only later on, they started to keep the "Star Wars" main title and would only translate the episode titles.
yeah, you are right. Maybe I went too far to make my point about how the things where created just after the success of SW (ep. IV). The creators and fans try to adjust things in SW to make sense in the whole universe and keep this story growing. This happens at different scales, from the ANH to the OT, then the OT to the prequels and all the things that we have now.... And this is kind of obvious but denied just for the pleasure.
Having served in the military myself, I always assumed the Death Star was specifically Tarkin's command, even if Vader was his equal. Things like that are usually spelled out so as to avoid confusion regarding the chain of command during a crisis.
Star Wars fans just don't want to face the fact that the reason Vader seems like an underling in this film is that Lucas hadn't really figured out his storyline yet, and that there was no grand design or real philosophy behind his work, beyond a half-baked fantasy story about princes and princesses, dark lords and magic powers. He probably hadn't even decided that Vader was Luke's father, or had ever been good or a Jedi, yet. He was almost certainly just another Black Knight character: a heavy following the orders of a bunch of thinly veiled Nazis. He was just cobbling ti together as he went along as a showcase for his new SFX team. There was no grand plan.
LOL my best friend is a total SW geek (I love Star Wars, but I'm not obsessed with it) . He hates the Lord of the Rings trilogy and gets incredibly pissed when I tell him that Star Wars was just a step by step epic fantasy quest story set in space. A small "fellowship" on a journey to save the world from the evil sorcerer, sword fights and magic, damsels in distress, but with spaceships rather than horses. Hell, even Han is Aragorn all over again. In fact it is very easy to find parallels between LOTR and ANH in every major character and story line. I've done this to my friend. He gets all triggered and I laugh my ass off!
I thought Vader only directly below the emperor? He respected tarkin so he would listen to him, I'm pretty sure they don't call him LORD Vader for nothing, he has pretty much limitless power within the empires military and the storm troopers them selves admired and would follow Vader to their deaths, which is why he had his own legion of the clone storm troopers called Vaders fist
By empire strikes back he was directly under the emperor. The thing was, Chancellor Palpatine was the highest in the republic, but Anakin was not the second highest in the republic. So when the empire began, there were still higher ups between Anakin and the emperor. Virtually all were killed with the first Death Star, essentially making Vader next only to the emperor by episode 5
Well, there might have been others, as Lord Vader was given command of a fleet to seek out the rebel base. There must have been others answerable to the Emperor himself, like for the defense of -Trantor- Coruscant. But to keep people from betraying him, those put in positions of power became weaker, like the Death Star II commander, and Admiral Piet of the Executor. That's probably why the fleet dispersed after the Death Star II was destroyed, and it would be hard for them to create a replacement Emperor.
Because they were basically friends, simple as that. it was a sign of respect from one soldier of the Empire to another, plus the relationship they formed during the Clone Wars. They saw eye to eye, and got along, so of course they worked together. Make no mistake, had Vader not liked Tarkin, he would have been dead faster than the guy at the start of ESB for talking to him like that. Vader was outside ranking, the only one he answered to was his master. Such is the way of the Sith. It's probably why he never killed Piett, despite him making multiple mistakes. He liked him. That was always a thing with Vader, he, like Anakin did, formed a relationship with the ones he served, the soldiers.
Vader has been and will always be the best imperial navy commander Tarkin was a good character, but he handed the battle of Yavin worse than someone else could. And the emperor in the battle of Endor made his star destroyers wait for nothing, instead of annihilating the rebel fleet. The fact is, Episode 4: Tarkin commander, imperials lose on Yavin/Death Star Episode 5: Vader commander, imperials win on Hoth and Bespin Episode 6: Palpatine commander, imperial lose on Endor/Death Star II So Vader truly is the best.
Señor Lag aka baseeco The main difference seems to be the egos. Tarkin and Palpatine both had massive egos. They wanted to see their enemies suffer, and they never really considered the possibility of defeat to the little band of rebels. Vader, on the other hand, seems to be more practical. Sure, he relishes his authority, but he doesn't seem like an ego driven person. Thus, he is a better commander.
I find those comparisons pretty bad, although I don't disagree that Vader was the better commander. In both Tarkin and the Emperor's cases it is a SINGLE example and they both are commanding a Death Star. Meanwhile Hoth was a straight forward attack on the base, who knows how Vader would have handled Yavin and Endor. Furthermore, Tarkin has had plenty of victories under his belt outside of the movies.
Tarkin represents the political branch of the Death Star even though he is de facto leader of the station. He is a brilliant strategist and commander but he became overconfident of the station's invincibility and power. We can see that by his posture, when Motti states that the station is the ultimate power in the universe, Tarkin relaxes somewhat in his chair and seems to be convinced by it. I attribute the "Yavin debacle" more to Motti, as he is the imperial commander of the navy branch of the DS. He was the one that should have sent swarms of TIEs against the Rebels. Besides Tagge, only Bast and Vader did not underestimated the Rebels.
I once read in a "Lad's Mag" that the reason Vader didn't have is own Tie-fighter in _The Empire Strikes Back_ was that it was as punishment for letting the Death Star blow up. I don't think I need to explain the nerd-rage I felt at reading that article, do I? Also, The Emperor punishing Vader by _grounding_ him, like he was a teenage son who had got a bad school report so he confiscated his car keys? "Right Vade, Until you learn to take care of things, I'm taking your interceptor!" "But Palpatiiiine!" "No, I'm putting my foot down! No more joy-rides for you, young man!" "Tch! That _soooo_ unfair! I hate living here!" [storms off, slams door and goes to sulk in bedroom]
Imo Tarkin is a better administrator and organizer than he is a commander. He thinks longterm - strategy - he doesn't need to be a great tactician, they got the Admirals for that. Vader on the other hand is a great tactician but I can't see him do any paperwork. He's more the type to go out there and do thinks rather than sitting in a chair all day like Tarkin. Also, Tarkin is not to blame for thinking the rebels won't make an "impossible shot". It's a miracle the rebels won that battle.
Cause Tarkin outranked him, pure and simple. (And because Peter Cushing was a veteran and respected actor, while Vader was a "nobody" actor in a suit and helmet!).
The title of Grand Moff is a political position more than it is a military position, think of it as The Commander And Chief which is a single role of the President which is a political and military position; Grand Moff is not the same title as Moff. The Grand Moff controls all military operations and overseas all major military operations, and controls all 20 of the normal Moffs. Hence, being a political power would give him control over Vader.
Are you refering to legends? This is the canon. Grand moffs is a political position, they are titled governors, like Moffs. A grand moff is the administrator of a so called "Oversector" otherwise knwon as a "Priority sector". These oversectors contains also regular "Sectors" otherwise known as "Planetary sectors". Regular moffs administrates these. All military within a governor's sector, responds ULTIMATELY to the system's governor (moff and even more ultimate, grand moff). So grand general v grand moff in the grand moffs sector, grand moff wins. With grand admirals, it is a little different. Whereas grand admirals gets assigned their very own fleet (While all other admirals, is assigned to a fleet-- a fleet is not assigned to them.), the grand admiral has the final say on HIS fleet.
It's "Governor" Tarkin, not "Grand Moff" Tarkin. That's what they call him in the movie, and that's a real government title, not a dumb "space" thing that was made up after the fact. And he takes orders from him because Vader is a battlefield officer, not the right hand of the emperor. Vader becomes a bigger deal retroactively as the series goes on, starting as just a badass villain who had ties to a weird cult, and ending as the central figure in the entire saga because it wasn't planned out ahead of time. That's really all there is to it. The story grew organically as time went on. When a new piece gets written, it's not like a discovery of historical documents that sheds light on ancient history, it's just a new made-up piece of a very patchy quilt, and it rarely fits cleanly.
His name in the script was "Grand Moff Tarkin", so it's not something someone made up afterwards. He was just never referred to as such in the movie. Peter Cushing even made fun of the name in an interview, comparing the title to some huge insect that might fly out of a cupboard. ;)
My impression from Episode 4 was always that Vader and Tarkin had a history, and Vader simply respected him enough to "obey", not that he was actually subservient.
It's important to remember that they made New Hope with very little expectation of making sequels. Pretty much everyone but George Lucas thought it would be a short and fun adventure that people would enjoy and then forget about in the future. As such, there wasn't much thought put into the position of Vader. Tarkin was more like a general, and Vader was more like a Nazi SS officer or the hired muscle. We also didn't know who the Emperor was at this time, and he was only mentioned once or twice, so to the audience Tarkin was suppose to be the main villain with Vader as the second-in-command. All this stuff about Vader being outside the chain of command and having Inquisitors and stuff was written decades after the original fluff.
Minor quibble - Alec Guinness was one of only a handful of people who thought Star Wars would be a hit, and his deference to George Lucas saved Lucas from near mutinies on set. But even Guinness had no idea how big the movie would ultimately become
I have a question, in the Tarkin novel it states that he designed the Imperial Uniform five years after Revenge Of The Sith but at the end of Revenge Of The Sith he was already wearing an Imperial Uniform. Help me Star Wars Explained, you're my only hope....
A. Mostert I can totally get a new take on traditional if it wasn't for that scene in Revenge Of The Sith. That uniform he wore in The Clone Wars was standard design for every Republic Officer and that designed stayed until Tarkin redesigned it. But I get your point.
It does indeed seem like Vader and Tarkin both have respect for each other. On the Death Star, the two discuss ideas for how to get Leia to reveal the rebel location, and take each other's input into consideration. And as you mentioned the comics, Vader does show Tarkin respect postumously with "Tarkin had vision" in defending what Tagge considered Tarkin's folly. I do hope to see more of Tarkin in more Star Wars stories.
he only followed general taggs orders because he was being punished by the emperor for letting the death star be dstroyed, and he was following tarkin because the emperor told him too and also to keep a eye on the man commanding the means to destroy entire planet
"he only followed general taggs orders because he was being punished by the emperor for letting the death star be destroyed" Nah. This is the episode in which the Death Star was Destroyed. Grand Moff Tarkin was aboard the first Death Star when it was destroyed. I think the only logical explanation is that Vader was under Tarkin at the time of episode IV. There was a major power change when the Empire dissolved the senate. This seems to be the theory Wookiepedia implicitly operates under: "Lord Vader was apparently only Palpatine's observer aboard the Death Star, with operational control in the hands of Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin, even though Vader technically outranked him; soon after, however, he was given command of the forces charged with prosecuting the war against the Rebel Alliance, and perhaps a wider commission to maintain order throughout Imperial space. His powers may be presumed to have been conferred by the time he returned to destroy the Rebel base: by this point he had taken charge of Executor, the largest warship in the galaxy, as his command ship; and Admiral Griff and the Sector Group of the Bright Jewel Oversector-one of the most important Navy commands in the Empire-were subordinated to his command."
he was being punished it from the cannon comics darth vader, when he redeemed himself in the emperors eyes he got command of Executor and became taggs boss again and swiftly executed him
Oh yes, but this was after the first Death Star was destroyed (along with Grand Moff Tarkin). That does not explain why BEFORE the first Death Star was destroyed, Vader is taking orders from Tarkin.
The Emperor was bored of him. He had no need for a Jedi killer apprentice without any Jedi. Vader was not a politician like Tarkin or other the Emperor, he was a warrior and there was no place for him to fight. Until he had a use again he was just pushed down the line in favour of people who could run Palpatine's galaxy
Finally a video that makes me justice. Although you´ll have to step in front of the firing squad, that photo you chose makes me look a bit balder than I really am.
Great observations. Darth Vader being given his official authority in the #25 finale was a really great way of giving that comic series a significance in the canon, IMO.
Im not sure, but i think u forgot 501 legion, vaders personal legion, that was on his charge too and they did missions for the sith and for the imperium
The 501st and the 212th were both in the clone wars animated series, and Captain Rex is in Rebels apparently. Thankfully, that means they are canon, even if altered from Battlefront 2.
As far as I can tell, beside Emperor Palpatine, Tarkin was the only officer who could call Vader without saying Lord. He did that a few times in "A New Hope" without being disrespectful. All the other guys said Lord Vader with some fear.
Even when viewed in the context of the Original Trilogy and only that, I think you can still get a sense of the respect shared between Tarkin and Vader. During the meeting between the Imperial higher-ups you get the respect Vader has for Tarkin, but also how little he respects everyone else there. He starts choking Mr. No-Faith without a second of thought once he disses the Force and he probably would have just killed him on the spot had Tarkin not said anything. And once Tarkin is gone having blown up inside the Death Star, we see Vader doing exactly that. Killing off officers left, right, and center for any mistake or sign of ineptitude. That being said, I'm also fine with his increase in power being given more context and thought behind it. Especially since most of it is actually good. If most of it sucked, I'd probably just stick to the story I had imagined in my head.
Why Does Darth Vader Take Orders From Grand Moff Tarkin. Because in the first movie he was intended to serve a role of a mid level commander who could get things done not a major figure in the Empire. After he became more popular they started pushing him up the chain until he became space Jesus. Now he makes zero sense and all explanations are just ridiculous. That's what happens when you let the fans write the story you get bad fan fiction.
Thanks! Thats exactly what happend. Original Vader was a henchman to Tarkin/Empire and a Remnant of the old Force Myth (Remember even Solo fought that the Force was a Fraud). I guess Lucas just didnt foresee how iconic Vader would become and rewrote his role und pushed him as the main antagonist when he realised.
***** well when you put it that way, I guess the whole story about how he forgot to get his mother out of slavery makes a lot of sense as well. Too much midichlorians.
I really have to laugh at all these attempts to figure out Star Wars. The simple fact is that the plot lines of the first trilogy, episodes 4 thru 6, are so full of holes if you turned them into cheese they'd be Swiss. If you examine them too closely you just spoil the fun of them, so I firmly recommend just sitting back and enjoying them for what they are.
I always figured in hindsight that Tarkin was a uber-bigshot in the Empire, thus he had some authority over Vader, in the sense that the Emperor told Vader, "Work with Tarkin, he knows what he's doing."
Dat isa a berry bombad inquiry, Hisen named SWE...why in da name of da hot Guds would Hesa listen tosa what an old lopity-pie Hisen boopjak, Tarkin, has tosa spake? Hesa inferior tosa TRUE power, mesa tinkin! Down with da inferior garbareenos and let za true warriors, da Gungans, taken over da Galaxy; then, der shall...be...peles...
All this discussion is true, but none of these facts tell WHY he was under them in the power structure. Every emperor, even a powerful Sith, required the loyalty of a great many powerful people. Recall that even droids managed to kill Jedi. The Sith Lord was not invulnerable. The Emperor couldn't command billions of people in far flung star systems. He bought the loyalty and strength he needed by putting people in positions of power and privilege. On a personal level, Vader was the greatest threat to the Emperor. Putting Vader under the command of others kept the emperor safe from him. The emperor could also use Vader to keep an eye on the admirals, generals, and governors. What surprises me the most about these scenes are the blatant hostility and disrespect toward Vader and the Force. Nothing in the films states or implies that the Empire at large knows that the Emperor is a Sith Lord. The military officers likely wouldn't be disrespectful to the Force if they knew that. I think the Emperor deliberately wanted the religion of the Force to appear dead, and the exploits of the Jedi to remain mysterious. The Force could only inspire hope from the good side and rivals from the dark side.
Rob Miller This is a nice write up. I would like to add an additional thought of my own to it: Vader only ascended into power coinciding the Emperor gaining knowledge of Luke Skywalkers existence. The Emperor near immediately tasked Vader to bring him in, where he was planning to turn Luke to the 'Dark-side', have him kill Vader and become his newest puppet. Basically once Vader outlived his usefulness and was increasingly becoming a threat, the second Palpatine got the opportunity he gave him more power and authority along with the directive of locating and apprehending his own replacement. Which was something Palpatine seemed to do a lot throughout the series.
Jacob Blanton I agree with you. another thing that surprised me in the series was the quote that there were always two Sith - never more, never less. this obviously isn't quite true because Palpatine went quite some time between apprentices after his former apprentices were killed. why wouldn't there be hundreds of Sith just like Jedi? my hypothesis is that the power of the dark side exists in limited quantity, and all the sith must share it. more Sith means less power. consequently killing other sith lords serves more than one purpose. I was just thinking today that Padme should have taken up Anakins offer to kill the emperor and rule the galaxy with her. if there was still good in him, perhaps he could have destroyed the sith that way. but my better sense tells me that his conversion needed his love of his son to turn.
the real reason was because the whole thing wasn't thought through before hand. vader was supposed to be the hands-on warrior while moff was supposed to be the mastermind so obviously the warrior takes order from the mastermind. when star wars became a huge hit and the story was expanded they decided to give vader a redemption story and they put in an evil super bad guy aka palpatine. everything else is just trying to plug the plot hole
Tarkin was also one of the goverment leaders of the old Republic who also had a millatary background. He was very ruthless and cruel toward anyone who opposed him. He developed an early liking to Anakin Skywalker and said he was the only trust worthy jedi he trusted and looks foward to working with him in the future. Not only that chancellor Palpatine also respected him and gave him high ranking position. His biggest weakness was he trusted the power of the deathstar and thought no one could take it down.
Alex Maverick his star wars prequels were poorly executed who should I throw the blame? the director is the one that participates in the most part of a movie right?Even tho I enjoyed them my self they could be way better in many ways
FuNnn RevVviewSss Obviously he's to blame. Like I said, he's a shit writer and director. But denying his imagination is silly. He's just one of those people with big ideas who needs the help of others to realize them. Empire Strikes Back is the best example I can give of this.
this confused me so much and it even confused my history teacher so much that he brought it up in class and asked all of his students about it and we all had no idea lol thanks for clearing this up i may have to email this video to him ahahaha
In the book Deathstar, Vader is shown to have no official standing in the imperial armed forces. Vader answered only to the emperor but decided to not interfere with the operations of the Deathstar and its command staff so long as they did what they were supposed to and not try to take control for themselves
As someone who's not read either the novels or the comics and only watched the films, I found this very informative. As a kid, it always baffled me as to why in Episode IV Vader defers to and takes orders only from Tarkin (the scene where he stops force choking that officer on Tarkin's command comes to mind). Also, does anyone here know why no original action figure of Tarkin exists? Considering that just about every other character, significant or insignificant was made into a toy (even droids who appeared on screen in the background for thirty seconds), I find that strange. My guess is that for whatever reason Cushing didn't contractually permit Lucas to use his likeness.
Vader's position in the Empire reminds me the Arbiter's position in the Covenant in the Halo series. Arbiter was also completely outside of the normal military and he would typically answer only to the prophets - the leaders of the Covenant. He had his special missions and when he took control over some military units, it was mostly just a temporary thing, or it was based on friendship with the commanders rather than based on his rank. And being an Arbiter was also a suicidal position by design. Also a bit like Vader's position, as Emperor was also testing him on many occasions. He probably wouldn't mind Vader dying too much.
Tarkin was a respected member of the imperial, and Palpatine close colaborator, Vader positions is different story, political wise, however, he can slay Tarkin whenever he wants, Palpy allowed him anydays, Vader only second to Palpatine on Sith's hierarchy wise, but Palpy needs tarkin in positions, in order to maintain his "emperor status" so Vader didn't have anything to disobey Tarkin. Simple.
Quite simply, when Peter Cushing asks you to do something, you do it.
Even if you're Darth Vader.
hear, hear!
And you may fire when ready...
He was in an episode of The Avengers (the proper ones, 1960s) and managed to be thoroughly menacing while wearing a granddad style purple woolly cardigan.
Beat me to it😂
When I was a kid, I figured Vader became more important rank wise in Empire, because half of the high ranking Imperial Officers died in the Death Star explosion.
Yea, me too!
Rezzy right. I agree here that he's "unofficial" in the structure of the military iN ANH, but with the destruction of the death star and the death of Tarking among probably many others, Palpatine promoted him to head of the Fleet afterwards, as he needed a strong ruthless leader to crush the rebellion.
It made sense to me as a kid.
Rezzy that's fine theory , but it just didn't match the prequels. Vaders position under this Tarkin characater doesn't make any sense at all once you've seen the prequels
There is a ton of stuff from the original trilogy that doesn't make sense after watching the prequels. That's why I'm convinced that George Lucas had never planned on doing 9 movies, or even 6.
The Adventuring & Camping School, Thailand
Maybe, but I did say, "when I was a kid", and we didn't have the prequels to go off of. Even with the prequels, just since Vader was Palpatine's apprentice, it doesn't automatically make him 2nd in command of the whole Empire, especially when he was a 20-something year old.
For all his flaws, he reduced unemployment on Alderaan to 0...
Luke Davis
but he also reduced employment to 0, only the funeral industry has risen up to 100.
(*whispers: "wait, no bodies left?")
scratch that, the funeral is dropped to 0, as well.
+Luke Davis - You are literally everywhere I go, it's kinda creepy.
/r/TheEmpireDidNothingWrong
#MakeTheGalaxyGreatAgain
lol
My theory is after Vader cartoonishly yelled "NOOOOOOOOO!!!" at the end of Revenge of the Sith, The Emperor decided he wasn't ready for that much responsibility yet.
I like the theory that Vader wasn't able to actually talk at that moment and his voicebox just turned "RAAAAAH!" into a stretched out "no".
LOL, I like that theory. I actually enjoyed Revenge of the Sith until that scene.
Well yeah. Vader was in his early stage and and still whiny Anikan kinda. He learned to be Darth Vader later
At the end of return of the jedi, when palpatine is using force lightning on luke, the emperor says "now you will die" to luke as he is zapping him, at which point vader grabs palpatine and throws him down the shaft while screaming "NOOOOOOO" i believe the end of revenge of the sith is a parallel and nod to that moment in a return of the jedi when vader redeems himself saves luke and destroys the sith lord, emperor palpatine. just saying they did that shit on purpose. while it was an epic nooooo in return of the jedi at the end of revenge of the sith it was kinda too late but in return of the jedi it was in the heat of the moment lol.
there wasn't a 'noooooo' in the original return of the jedi
If you've read the novel "Tarkin", you see they end up almost as friends, acknowledging each other's strengths. So when Tarkin tells Vader to stop choking the imperial guy, its more of a "Hey man I think you proved your point, let's chill k?" They don't try to outrank each other.
I agree. I never really, saw it as Tarkin ordering him around either. They have a mutual respect for each other and are usually on the same page. Whenever Vader's seen ordering around other Moffs etc you can tell he sees them as being inferior officers who he has no respect for, which is indicated by some sense of failure or short coming on their part.
Cameron Walker Exactly. It was kinda like the relationship Anakin had with Obiwan. Even though Obiwan like Tarkin, knew Anakin/Vader had a hotheaded temper, they both knew he respected their leadership abilities enough not to argue against their advice.
I agree I never saw it as ordering around other then Leia's comments. Its just he is the only guy that Vader will listen to when he is force choking someone.
what ever floats your boat but you're theory falls apart when even the rebels know tarkin controls vader,
leia - Governor Tarkin, I should've expected to find you holding Vader's leash!!
he outranks him pure and simple vader wasn't a good leader or tactician tarkin was, the emperor probably assigned tarkin to keep an eye on vader in case he tried to take over and to point him in the right direction because vader tended to destroy everything friends and foes so good old tarkin would keep him in check if you noticed in empire vader kill more imperial officers than the rebels
When Tarkin says in ANH "I'm taking an awful risk Vader. This had better work" it doesn't sound like Vader is his equal.
Real reason - Lucas just hadn't sorted out Vader's role at the beginning.
this entire series seems to made it's plot while filming :)
+flaggerify
I think that you are correct.
When Episode IV was released, Alec Guinness and Peter Cushing were probably the only actors in the film who were well known. Cushing was a veteran type-cast villain who was known for multiple key roles in the horror genre. Even though Tarkin and Vader are somewhat sharing the designation as the film's 'heavy,' Lucas may have felt that actor Peter Cushing's character must not be diminished by answering to anyone onscreen. So even though we hear of an unseen Emperor who is ultimately in charge, Lucas demonstrated that Cushing's character is the senior antagonist that we see until Episode V.
or George Lucas beefed up the significance of Vader after a new hope, due to the reaction to the character.
Exactly correct. Lucas made up sh!t as he went along.
That’s not the point of the video dumbass. He’s trying to explain it in the context of the lore.
@@linewater2690 oh thanks. It all makes sense now.
"No no no! I had always intended, since I was born in fact, to have star wars be a trilogy of trilogies and you can't tell me no because I am right!"
this is the actual answer yeh, but to make it less confusing, a backstory as mentioned here was filled in later.
"You, my friend, are all that remain of their religion." I think this line indicates that Tarkin is aware of Vader's identity.
This always confused me. Wouldn't he have ceased to be a part of that religion?
Wasn't the emperor also a part of the religion too though?
@@gcsalzer The Emperor wasn't even in episode 4(just mentioned briefly), I don't think Lucas had even planned for him to even be able to use the force at that point.
@@airwreck213 Well in the context of the scene they're referring to the Jedi as the "religion", not the force directly. The Emperor was never a Jedi.
@@noahmarsden7231 But he was a Sith which is the flip side of the same belief system similar to Satan and God!
I always just figured Vader became in charge once Tarkin exploded with the Death Star.
Palpatine: "Vader, you seriously fucked up. Thus I make you supreme commander of the fleet."
germanvisitor2 I'm sure Vader spun the shit out of what actually happened to make it look like Tarkin's fault.
OldLeatherHands&Friends
Somehow I cannot see Vader as someone who would lie like that.
Also he might have actually be griefing about some of the people who died on the Death Star. Almost his entire personal guard was on it and Tarkin called Vader "my friend".
germanvisitor2 yeah bud Tarkin could have been messing with Vader. like calling someone "buddy',"friend". Vader had no true feels for anyone but himself at that point, then his kids later on.
OldLeatherHands&Friends Actually vader was still close to his clone troopers especially to the 501st but most of them were killed during the battle of yavin.
it was simply because lucas didn't think he'd get this far in his series. He made things a certain way with no idea how to proceed, such as the instance when obi wan calls anakin "Darth" as if it was his first name. After he saw how much of a success a new hope was, he tweaked the whole story.
Joshua Amaya Or the fact the Tarkin was "Grand Moff"... that controls all military operations.. if Lucas gave him the title then Im sure he thought about it. It makes sense that Vader would take orders from him
Earlier, Obi Wan said he was NAMED Darth Vader. Plus, he said he was a Jedi named Darth Vader. (Wouldn't he have ceased to be a Jedi when he became Darth Vader?)
Yep. It would've taken a lifetime to plot out every story and intricant relationship throughout the galaxy.
FACTS.💯
@@Backtothehat Obi Wan series has Obi Wan calling him Darth.
Grand Moff Tarkin was always one of my favorite characters when I was a kid. I still think he's pretty kick ass.
Have you read his book? If so ii highly recommend it
He's badass.
...and, despite everyone criticizing Tarkin's CGI resurrection for "Rogue", I thought it was masterfully done and a fitting tribute to Cushing's legacy.
I always thought of Tarkin as a fantastic villian. I saw him as more the “Evil Genius” with Vader more like the big ominous henchman of the operation.
Sometimes I realize in the original Star Wars film, he was the main antagonist of a new hope before Vader took over. And at first I thought he’s no longer useful but yet he’s still a fan favorite for most occasions especially in the bad batch series.
Because Peter Cushing is a superior actor. Obviously.
Peter Cushing stood unfazed and commanded his scenes in the prescence of the Voice Of the Ages AKA James Earl Jones. If that aint gangsta, i dont know what is.
Was he actually hearing James Earl Jones' voice, rather than David Prowse's voice?
For A New Hope, at least, I think David Prowse spoke his lines during shooting and JEJ's voice was dubbed in in post. Apparently this pissed Prowse off so that he didn't even speak his lines in the next two movies. There's a video about that too...
Sad for him but his voice was awful.
Agree, along with Alec Guinness, Cushing was the biggest name in the film, well-known from all the Hammer flicks he did with Christopher Lee.
Vader and the Inquisitors. Should be a metal band.
there is a band called Vader
You do know that the galactic empire is a metal band! I posted a link below. Check them out!
Lawrence Schuman I was one of his members.
The real reason is Darth Vader wasn't the main antagonist of the film. Peter Cushing's a wonderful actor and far more expressive than a mask. Vader was simply the muscle.
It was a classic set of tropes. Tarkin is the Evil Lord and Vader is the Black Knight. We see the same thing in most Robin Hood stories where Prince John is the leader behind it all but the Sheriff of Nottingham is the primary and physical antagonist.
Because he's Grand Moff fcking Tarkin. 'Nuff said
Luke Davis omg you're early as well, and I follow you on twitter
Say whhaaaaaaaaaat?????
Actually, Peter fcking CUSHING >> David w.r.u? Prowse
Luke Davis vader isn't a commander, he's a sith Lord. tarkin is a commander. Vader is like a samurai.
At the time of the film release none of this back story had been created.
That's exactly what I thought.
Also at time the first movie was released darth vader was only intended to be an attack dog. However the fan reception for him was so great lucas re-wrote him as the main villian.
apearently some other major last minute changes included vader not being lukes father, and han dieing at the end of the second film with luke and leah hooking up at the end.
Indeed. Star Wars' greatest strength is the legion of fans and creators willing to do the hard work of filling in such plot holes.
Leia
kyriss12 Is this entirely true but? He had that connection with Obi wan in a new hope. Seems he was always intended to be a big character.
Emm, I think it's much simpler. By the time of episode 5 Lucas decided Vader is too cool to take orders from others. That's it.
SolarWindsRider I agree
SolarWindsRider they still need an explanation and they got a cool one
SolarWindsRider too cool to take orders from anyone except Palpatine himself
That’s not an in-universe explanation.
Don't forget that Tarkin was a GRAND Moff. There were only a few of them and Tarkin was the first. Further, up until ANH, Vader's sole purpose was to hunt down and destroy Jedi and other rogue force users. Primarily by himself or with the various elite agents he employed. It wasn't until shortly before ANH and the extinction of the last few Jedi that Vader began to be seen more among the ranks of the regular Empire. It's like how in Rebels - a few years before ANH - he's sort of this shadowy myth that's very rarely seen. Up until that point he's been purging Jedi - and there are STILL some left. Grand Moff Tarkin has been active both in hunting down Jedi AND the actual day-to-day activities of the Empire - so he's the one who'd be giving orders.
Plus, from what we see in ANH, Vader doesn't really seem to CARE that he's taking orders - he also doesn't really seem to care about who's in charge either. The orders he takes from Tarkin are almost always orders he agrees with - the rest of them TRY to order him around or intimidate him and they... well, they're dealt with :P Vader respects Tarkin - the rest of them could twist in the wind as far as he's concerned. It isn't until he finds out about Luke that he begins considering a future for himself - making himself less of an enforcer and more of a commander. Before that point what else WAS he beyond an enforcer? With the last of the Jedi dead or dying did he even have a purpose?
I agree with the comics that Vader realizing the truth and the significance of Luke was what REALLY turned him into the Vader we saw in ESB and ROTJ.
I also feel like that the Emperor would have given him (Tarkin) some official posting, and it just doesn't have an official title. With Legends he is over seeing the Maw as well. So while he has a political posting, he might have been dual hatted to be in charge of all specialist Military Projects. Vader is just a Sith Apprentice at first, later a Master, then he gets made C-i-C of the Imperial Fleet, effectively head of the largest military force, the Navy. We do know he had influence through the Emperor, he had Devastator given to him as sort of a permanent flagship to go hunting the enemy. It is implied he had it before the events of Rogue One as his flagship.
TEGRULZ He finally had the executor as his flagship. The authority Vader had after being given command of the imperial fleet, was basically the authority Tarkin was to the Death Star. They both were the top authority of their own military forces, but Tarkin having served even in the republic government, rose to a higher authority faster.
Yup. He wasn't just a Moff. He was a Grand Moff. You didn't F with Grand Moffs.
Even though the Vader comic got a little too weird in some places that I'd personally like to forget about, I still love the payoff at the end. It really did a great job at setting up the ESB Vader.
I agree. It got very strange. Commander Karbin, for example. But overall, great story.
Which is why purging the old EU is not without benefits. Although great things were lost like KOTOR and Thrawn trilogy. There is a new opportunity to actually have semi decent quality control that was lacking the last 40 years and retroactively work back in some of the concepts and pieces that were lost in the Disney purge.
Connor Brady I agree. I'm not super well-versed on the old EU, so the purge didn't hit me too hard. However, just from watching this channel I've learned about a lot of Legends material that just sounds absolutely absurd. It's not all bad, but a lot of it should have no place in the current canon. The cohesive universe we're getting now is mostly fantastic, and nobody at Lucas is going to take away my enjoyment of my favorite Legends stories.
Honestly, anything that takes place thousands of years before the movies works better under a Legends banner, in my opinion. When you look at those stories like a literal legend within the SW universe, it just makes the most sense. Darth Bane exists, but was he a muscular bald dude from the books, or the samurai-looking guy as depicted from TCW? Let the reader/viewer decide.
What made it weird/strange?
Anthony Warren Vader respects the heirarchy. he only thought the Jedi were weak because they failed to act but the empire satisfies him so he lets it function for his purposes. he couldn't take over the galaxy single handedly. it's his army but it's run by those with more specialized experience in command.
Darth Vader was only an enforcer of the Emporer... Tarkin was his right hand man, Imperial Governor, and Grand Moff ( a sort of Field Marshall) who was head of the entire military. Tarkin's job was to fulfill the wishes of the Emporer and it was Vader's job to ensure they were carried out.
Based solely on the movies, I always thought of it as who was in charge of that particular mission. Such as in the military, when two officers of equal rank must work together. If it is officer A's unit/mission/ship/whatever, officer B becomes subordinate. The Emperor sent Vader there to be his eyes and to reinforce Tarkin's authority on a spaceship the size of a moon. With that kind of population, there is a good chance of mutiny, rebellion and other political machinations.
That's how I always thought of it, anyway. Nothing complicated.
Makes a lot of sense.
Vader is a visitor, DS is under Tarkin’s command, Vader listens.
Have prior respect for Tarkin definitely helps.
Notice how ALL of the other officers are young?
Tarkin was in the Clone Wars and served WITH pre-Vader.
That builds a bold and respect.
Maybe Tarkin summoned him? Or perhaps there were prison and interrogation facilities on the Death Star that weren't on the Devastator? It seemed like a flaw in the story for him to not personally oversee the retrieval of plans from Tatooine. But I can see the Emperor needed Vader to be on the Death Star when it became operational to make sure it wasn't used against him.
In _Star Wars: The Radio Drama_ Darth Vader tells Tarkin "The Emperor should be consulted!" with regard to destroying Alderaan. To which he replies, "Do not think to challenge _me!_ You're not confronting Tag or Monty now. The Emperor has given me free a hand in this affair, the decision is mine!"
Grand Moff Tarkin is like Tywin Lannister: they both exercised power well beyond their formal authority.
I like the comparison. I also think had A New Hope been made more recently, Charles Dance would have been a good choice for Grand Moff Tarkin, and vice versa in regards to Cushing playing Tywin.
Jennifer M, Charles Dance as Tarkin. Holy shit that would work so well.
yep they are Both menacing and intimidating
I always saw it as respect. Vader had respect for Tarkin that he didn't have for other officers.
because Peter cushing, that's why
Because until Empire he wasn't really a central character, he was a henchman, like a Nazi-SS-Officer and Tarkin was his boss.
Elias Arndt Smart analogy. The SS had all the power but the official power. There were still hordes of Party functionaries and non SS hitler confidants.
In fact, Tarkin was not in the initial drafts (at least not as an imperial character). Lucas added Tarkin as the imperial authority figure because he didn't want the audience to see Vader as all powerful, but rather as being in service of the Empire and not in control of it. This was before the Emperor became the powerful sith lord that we know today.
the real reason is cause tarkin was played by peter cushion (doctor Frankenstein) and vader was David Prowse (Frankensteins monster). Lucas was a obvious fan of the hammer horror Movies, which is why we later got Count Dooku, christopher lee (previously Count Dracula). That's probably where we got vaders cape and the choking from, the hammer Dracula did on various occassions choke his underlings out... XD
He was always a central character as he was to confront Obi Wan. What changed is his exact role in the empire... I think in the original conception of SW the Emperor was not even a force user, so Vader was just the "last Jedi", the one who aided the empire and thus found a place in it.
That's a very interesting idea
Because Star Wars was never intended to be more than 1 movie regardless of what Lucas says and then they added the subtitle A New Hope later on to tie the first one in. It's clearly a 1 off movie. Vader was re-written to have more powers and a greater backstory.
then why didn't vader die. why was there a mention of the emperor.
When Ben is telling Luke about Anakin/Vader it's pretty obvious at that point that he wasn't planned to be Luke's father.
Poolemon wasn't it. only when luke mentions him to his aunt and uncle they seem to have a disturbed look on there face. and even when ben is talking to luke. you see he feeling uncomfortable.
Lucas was quite clear on this issue. His original script was ridiculously long, so he took the first section to do as a single movie. I imagine that is why we have two death stars. The other parts were expanded and developed into TESB and ROTJ at later dates. It works as a standalone because A New Hope was designed to be a standalone. There was this whole story that he had, but if the original was a financial failure we'd probably never have even known about it.
The last time we see Vader in a new hope is him spinning off into space in a damaged ship. For all we know that was meant to be his death (They probably would have shown the ship explode, but it's still a possibility). As for the Father twist, that was apparently added very late into Episode 5's production, and there were several scenes that were almost in the movie like Luke meeting his father's ghost before fighting Vader and Vader's big revelation being that Obi-Wan killed Luke's father.
Some people think Rogue One will get a sequel, mfw it's A New Hope by George Lucas, from 1977z
I believe they will be the Knights of Ren and there would be another spin-off based on them
Did you come from Film Theorists? And I think that's sorta dumb, I'd rather they all die, wraps up any loop holes.
Cole Viloria nah I'm with the film theorists
+joseph monaghan Han Solo was young in A New Hope. Rogue One takes place immediately before A New Hope, so if we indeed see Han Solo he should be young.
The Raven Rogue One takes place when the Rebels are stealing the Death Star plans to transfer it to Leia, but I also believe they will be captured and tortured and will become the Knights of Ren
If you read the novelization of Star Wars (written by George Lucas), Vader was plotting to kill Tarkin as he felt he was too ambitious. It wasn't a priority, but it was definitely on his 'to do' list.
how tf do you "ghost" write?
part of the "fear" he had of Tarkin, was he would answer to Palpatine if he stepped out of line..
Ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster based on screenplay by George Lucas.
Tarkin was by far one of the best villains and I think he was in the breath trailer
Boss Nass it's fine
Bs so true 👌
I don't see my friend Boss Nass' comment, did u delete it? I wanted to read his hilarious typing
him and thrawn both wicked
no he wasn't. He's not going to be in the movie. although he most definitely should be considering what the movie is about. tarkin was a huge player and influence at that time.
Jar Jar holds this all together. He's the key to all of this.
"...Because he's a funnier character than we've ever had before."
I mean... if you pay attention to the prequels he’s the main pawn
Because he is Darth Plagueis.
Considering he tricked the Senate into giving Palpatine emergency powers, he kind of is........
Sith lord Jar Jar
The Sith Rule of Two requires the Sith Apprentice eventually murder their Master. Palpatine would have to be a complete and utter imbecile to place a planet-destroying battle station into the hands of his apprentice, who was supposed to kill him. Notice that in RotJ, once the second Death Star is operational (but not mobile) and Palpatine arrived to take charge, he promptly kicked Vader off of the station and sent him back to Executor. Vader's job description was closer to "Whatever the Emperor says", and his authority was limited to what Palpatine allowed. Hence, Vader might be assigned to take orders from others as Palpatine deemed appropriate.
Daniel S thank you this is the most sound theory of heard on this subject
This is lore
Because in Star Wars Vader is just a heavy - then he sold a shitload of merch so Lucas made him Space Jesus.
True to a point, but he wasn't JUST a heavy. He was the sole user of the dark side of the force, he killed Luke's father and had the back story with Obi-Wan. There was more weight to his character in the story than there was with Tarkin, even before the Empire Strikes Back twist.
True. Lucas tried to repeat the trick with Boba Fett. Much hype before Empire came out. A new masked villain, the first action figure to be released from the sequel, anticipation galore. Then all he did was follow the Millennium Falcon (no more significant than the long nosed squeaky thing who follows Luke and Ben in SW), then takes Han away as frozen prisoner. Big deal, but the merchandise had already begun to shift.
I think that they just respect each other. As far as I can remember, the only order that Tarkin gives to Vader directly is when he orders him to stop choking that one other admiral in the meeting room. Vader complies, but it doesn't seem like he was forced to.
When Leia says that Tarkin is holding Vader's leash, she's just echoing what the arrangement looks like from the outside. It was more of a taunt than a fact. She doesn't actually know anything about their relationship.
I always thought it was because the Emperor was being his usual machivellian self. He sent Vader to keep an eye on Tarkin, but subordinated Vader to Tarkin, that way they both keep each other in check and make it difficult for either of them to seize control of the death star and use it against the emperor.
Yoda's younger years leading up to the events between episodes 1-6.
After all these years we don't know much about him
i just trained kids and stuff
It would actually be cool to see Yoda in his prime. I bet he was a bad mofo.
Yoda wasn't even gonna be in Star Wars. Oldest character in Star Wars with no back story on his existence. He was only added because Obi-Wan was killed off.
The Emperor = Vito Corleone (The Don)
Grand Moff Tarkin = Tom Hagen (Consigliere)
Darth Vader = Luca Brasi (The Enforcer)
Really? Not Sonny? Sonny was often put in check by Tom Hagen. And isn't Vader's temper more comparable to his rather than the emotionless, mentally challenged Brasi's. Plus, Sonny's love child winds up taking the helm in Godfather III, much like Anakin's son Luke. I'm seeing more parallels there.
You know...you're right! Sonny was pretty fierce, and it took a hail of bullets to bring him down. If Brasi didn't get choked out in the beginning then maybe we could have seen him flex his supposedly Sith-like muscle.
Except that Vader had more long term calculating goals against his 'Don' The Emperor (taking him down and putting himself and Luke in charge) than Luca ever did against Don Corleone in The Godfather.
But still a great analogy on your part. :-)
From the little bit I read - Luca was so savage that even The Don "fears him and becomes nervous whenever they meet". I got the feeling that the Emperor was probably always on guard whenever Vader met with him face to face. Also, it's rumored that Luca Brasi decapitated the horse and stuck it in the old guys bed - you can't get more sith-like than that! :D
In other comparisons. mostly for pop-culture.
Emperor palpatine as evil queen
Grand Moff tarkin as Frollo
Darth vader as emperor Zurg.
Because he killed Dracula several times.
Crazy House OMG I genuinely lol'd
Yeah, well.. As dr Frankenstein, he built a monster portrayed by Prowse as well..
Storyline: Vader still had much to learn. What better way than from a general when The Emperor was busy with other things.
Reality: Tarkin was the true villain and Lucas probably didn't expect Vader to get as popular as he did when he was making the original film.
I think that fans don't like to see the "Realistic" reason of the Vader's subordination to Tarkin... but it is the true. The emperor didn't exist during Ep IV ... that actually wasn't Ep IV, it was just SW. Everything was created for Ep V and they try to fix Ep IV so they can sleep at night...hahaha
Cristobal Padilla Exactly this! Funny enough, I have a very old tape version of the German version - back then, the title "Star Wars" was translated to "Krieg der Sterne", and that was the title of the film. Only later on, they started to keep the "Star Wars" main title and would only translate the episode titles.
yeah, you are right. Maybe I went too far to make my point about how the things where created just after the success of SW (ep. IV). The creators and fans try to adjust things in SW to make sense in the whole universe and keep this story growing. This happens at different scales, from the ANH to the OT, then the OT to the prequels and all the things that we have now.... And this is kind of obvious but denied just for the pleasure.
Because Grand Moff Tarkin outranks Darth Vader. Saved you 3 minutes.
That's why you are in the comments section and not producing videos.
its probably his lack of video editing software knowledge explaining he is in the comments.
kev3d on top of that, the deleted scenes of Episode III explains it. Palpatine installed Governors on different star systems before he turned Anakin.
Cheetos Hmm You're angry.
Having served in the military myself, I always assumed the Death Star was specifically Tarkin's command, even if Vader was his equal. Things like that are usually spelled out so as to avoid confusion regarding the chain of command during a crisis.
Star Wars fans just don't want to face the fact that the reason Vader seems like an underling in this film is that Lucas hadn't really figured out his storyline yet, and that there was no grand design or real philosophy behind his work, beyond a half-baked fantasy story about princes and princesses, dark lords and magic powers. He probably hadn't even decided that Vader was Luke's father, or had ever been good or a Jedi, yet. He was almost certainly just another Black Knight character: a heavy following the orders of a bunch of thinly veiled Nazis.
He was just cobbling ti together as he went along as a showcase for his new SFX team. There was no grand plan.
Exactly.
I agree but Lucas did know that Vader used to be a jedi as Obi Wan said so. "A young Jedi named Darth Vader,..."
Totally agree.
LOL my best friend is a total SW geek (I love Star Wars, but I'm not obsessed with it) . He hates the Lord of the Rings trilogy and gets incredibly pissed when I tell him that Star Wars was just a step by step epic fantasy quest story set in space. A small "fellowship" on a journey to save the world from the evil sorcerer, sword fights and magic, damsels in distress, but with spaceships rather than horses. Hell, even Han is Aragorn all over again. In fact it is very easy to find parallels between LOTR and ANH in every major character and story line. I've done this to my friend. He gets all triggered and I laugh my ass off!
Shadow Jack My friend did that the first time I walked him through all the close parallels with _Dune._
Tarkin was like the old weird uncle you invite for Thanksgiving
I thought Vader only directly below the emperor? He respected tarkin so he would listen to him, I'm pretty sure they don't call him LORD Vader for nothing, he has pretty much limitless power within the empires military and the storm troopers them selves admired and would follow Vader to their deaths, which is why he had his own legion of the clone storm troopers called Vaders fist
By empire strikes back he was directly under the emperor. The thing was, Chancellor Palpatine was the highest in the republic, but Anakin was not the second highest in the republic. So when the empire began, there were still higher ups between Anakin and the emperor. Virtually all were killed with the first Death Star, essentially making Vader next only to the emperor by episode 5
Derek Hearne lord is a lower rank than Vader in the sith js. And grand moff is one of the highest ranks in the empire
Well, there might have been others, as Lord Vader was given command of a fleet to seek out the rebel base. There must have been others answerable to the Emperor himself, like for the defense of -Trantor- Coruscant. But to keep people from betraying him, those put in positions of power became weaker, like the Death Star II commander, and Admiral Piet of the Executor. That's probably why the fleet dispersed after the Death Star II was destroyed, and it would be hard for them to create a replacement Emperor.
its cool how one uncertainty in the first movie, turned Tarkin into a legend across the SW Universe
Because they were basically friends, simple as that. it was a sign of respect from one soldier of the Empire to another, plus the relationship they formed during the Clone Wars. They saw eye to eye, and got along, so of course they worked together.
Make no mistake, had Vader not liked Tarkin, he would have been dead faster than the guy at the start of ESB for talking to him like that. Vader was outside ranking, the only one he answered to was his master. Such is the way of the Sith.
It's probably why he never killed Piett, despite him making multiple mistakes. He liked him. That was always a thing with Vader, he, like Anakin did, formed a relationship with the ones he served, the soldiers.
Vader has been and will always be the best imperial navy commander
Tarkin was a good character, but he handed the battle of Yavin worse than someone else could.
And the emperor in the battle of Endor made his star destroyers wait for nothing, instead of annihilating the rebel fleet.
The fact is,
Episode 4: Tarkin commander, imperials lose on Yavin/Death Star
Episode 5: Vader commander, imperials win on Hoth and Bespin
Episode 6: Palpatine commander, imperial lose on Endor/Death Star II
So Vader truly is the best.
Señor Lag aka baseeco The main difference seems to be the egos. Tarkin and Palpatine both had massive egos. They wanted to see their enemies suffer, and they never really considered the possibility of defeat to the little band of rebels.
Vader, on the other hand, seems to be more practical. Sure, he relishes his authority, but he doesn't seem like an ego driven person. Thus, he is a better commander.
I find those comparisons pretty bad, although I don't disagree that Vader was the better commander. In both Tarkin and the Emperor's cases it is a SINGLE example and they both are commanding a Death Star. Meanwhile Hoth was a straight forward attack on the base, who knows how Vader would have handled Yavin and Endor. Furthermore, Tarkin has had plenty of victories under his belt outside of the movies.
Tarkin represents the political branch of the Death Star even though he is de facto leader of the station. He is a brilliant strategist and commander but he became overconfident of the station's invincibility and power. We can see that by his posture, when Motti states that the station is the ultimate power in the universe, Tarkin relaxes somewhat in his chair and seems to be convinced by it. I attribute the "Yavin debacle" more to Motti, as he is the imperial commander of the navy branch of the DS. He was the one that should have sent swarms of TIEs against the Rebels. Besides Tagge, only Bast and Vader did not underestimated the Rebels.
I once read in a "Lad's Mag" that the reason Vader didn't have is own Tie-fighter in _The Empire Strikes Back_ was that it was as punishment for letting the Death Star blow up.
I don't think I need to explain the nerd-rage I felt at reading that article, do I?
Also, The Emperor punishing Vader by _grounding_ him, like he was a teenage son who had got a bad school report so he confiscated his car keys?
"Right Vade, Until you learn to take care of things, I'm taking your interceptor!"
"But Palpatiiiine!"
"No, I'm putting my foot down! No more joy-rides for you, young man!"
"Tch! That _soooo_ unfair! I hate living here!" [storms off, slams door and goes to sulk in bedroom]
Imo Tarkin is a better administrator and organizer than he is a commander. He thinks longterm - strategy - he doesn't need to be a great tactician, they got the Admirals for that. Vader on the other hand is a great tactician but I can't see him do any paperwork. He's more the type to go out there and do thinks rather than sitting in a chair all day like Tarkin.
Also, Tarkin is not to blame for thinking the rebels won't make an "impossible shot". It's a miracle the rebels won that battle.
Cause Tarkin outranked him, pure and simple. (And because Peter Cushing was a veteran and respected actor, while Vader was a "nobody" actor in a suit and helmet!).
He was the green cross code man!
AND muscle man in A Clockwork Orange! Real horrorshow like!
The title of Grand Moff is a political position more than it is a military position, think of it as The Commander And Chief which is a single role of the President which is a political and military position; Grand Moff is not the same title as Moff. The Grand Moff controls all military operations and overseas all major military operations, and controls all 20 of the normal Moffs. Hence, being a political power would give him control over Vader.
Are you refering to legends? This is the canon. Grand moffs is a political position, they are titled governors, like Moffs. A grand moff is the administrator of a so called "Oversector" otherwise knwon as a "Priority sector". These oversectors contains also regular "Sectors" otherwise known as "Planetary sectors". Regular moffs administrates these. All military within a governor's sector, responds ULTIMATELY to the system's governor (moff and even more ultimate, grand moff). So grand general v grand moff in the grand moffs sector, grand moff wins. With grand admirals, it is a little different. Whereas grand admirals gets assigned their very own fleet (While all other admirals, is assigned to a fleet-- a fleet is not assigned to them.), the grand admiral has the final say on HIS fleet.
+John Silver Have you by chance read the book 'Tarkin' by James Luceno? That will give you more insight.
Pete Nesse I have, and I have studied the canon galactic empire way more than you because I have put way more effort to it, I can say this with ease.
John Silver Whatever dude, this isn't a competition. 😂
Sure sure.
It's "Governor" Tarkin, not "Grand Moff" Tarkin. That's what they call him in the movie, and that's a real government title, not a dumb "space" thing that was made up after the fact. And he takes orders from him because Vader is a battlefield officer, not the right hand of the emperor. Vader becomes a bigger deal retroactively as the series goes on, starting as just a badass villain who had ties to a weird cult, and ending as the central figure in the entire saga because it wasn't planned out ahead of time.
That's really all there is to it. The story grew organically as time went on. When a new piece gets written, it's not like a discovery of historical documents that sheds light on ancient history, it's just a new made-up piece of a very patchy quilt, and it rarely fits cleanly.
His name in the script was "Grand Moff Tarkin", so it's not something someone made up afterwards. He was just never referred to as such in the movie. Peter Cushing even made fun of the name in an interview, comparing the title to some huge insect that might fly out of a cupboard. ;)
My impression from Episode 4 was always that Vader and Tarkin had a history, and Vader simply respected him enough to "obey", not that he was actually subservient.
Clone Wars gives this validation as they served together and had been through some poodu.
I always saw “Vader, release him” and more as “Bro, come on!”.
What happened to tagge after Vader was given more control
The same thing that happens to every officer Vader doesn't like :P
Star Wars Explained thanks
I hear Tagge was all choked up over Vader's promotion:P
After Tagge's "demotion" and Vader proving himself worthy again to the Emperor's eyes, to held complete control of all imperial forces.
Tagg unless he was on a Star Destroyer before the Death Star blew up was probably killed by Darth Vader.
It's important to remember that they made New Hope with very little expectation of making sequels. Pretty much everyone but George Lucas thought it would be a short and fun adventure that people would enjoy and then forget about in the future.
As such, there wasn't much thought put into the position of Vader. Tarkin was more like a general, and Vader was more like a Nazi SS officer or the hired muscle. We also didn't know who the Emperor was at this time, and he was only mentioned once or twice, so to the audience Tarkin was suppose to be the main villain with Vader as the second-in-command.
All this stuff about Vader being outside the chain of command and having Inquisitors and stuff was written decades after the original fluff.
Minor quibble - Alec Guinness was one of only a handful of people who thought Star Wars would be a hit, and his deference to George Lucas saved Lucas from near mutinies on set. But even Guinness had no idea how big the movie would ultimately become
I always assumed that after tarkin died Vader got a promotion.
+Dawson Ringkob Not really, the emperor was most displeased by what has happened to the first Death Star and punished Vader for it.
Is there a video explaining the colors of the throat lozenges the imperial officers wear on their chests? Is baby blue better than red, etc?
I have a question, in the Tarkin novel it states that he designed the Imperial Uniform five years after Revenge Of The Sith but at the end of Revenge Of The Sith he was already wearing an Imperial Uniform. Help me Star Wars Explained, you're my only hope....
that scene must be order 66+ 5years then
TheSunkenCommander Five Years After order 66? But his rank plaque shows that he was still a Moff....
A. Mostert That does make sense, but wouldn't traditional be what he was wearing in The Clone Wars?
A. Mostert but the line going down the uniform was different
A. Mostert I can totally get a new take on traditional if it wasn't for that scene in Revenge Of The Sith. That uniform he wore in The Clone Wars was standard design for every Republic Officer and that designed stayed until Tarkin redesigned it. But I get your point.
I like his approach to explanations. he acknowledges the whole "because it's in the script" thing, and expands on and augments that with cannon
Well of course Vader takes orders from Tarkin, because He's Peter Cushing and Vader is the Green Cross Code Man
It does indeed seem like Vader and Tarkin both have respect for each other. On the Death Star, the two discuss ideas for how to get Leia to reveal the rebel location, and take each other's input into consideration. And as you mentioned the comics, Vader does show Tarkin respect postumously with "Tarkin had vision" in defending what Tagge considered Tarkin's folly. I do hope to see more of Tarkin in more Star Wars stories.
he only followed general taggs orders because he was being punished by the emperor for letting the death star be dstroyed, and he was following tarkin because the emperor told him too and also to keep a eye on the man commanding the means to destroy entire planet
"he only followed general taggs orders because he was being punished by the emperor for letting the death star be destroyed"
Nah.
This is the episode in which the Death Star was Destroyed. Grand Moff Tarkin was aboard the first Death Star when it was destroyed.
I think the only logical explanation is that Vader was under Tarkin at the time of episode IV. There was a major power change when the Empire dissolved the senate.
This seems to be the theory Wookiepedia implicitly operates under:
"Lord Vader was apparently only Palpatine's observer aboard the Death Star, with operational control in the hands of Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin, even though Vader technically outranked him; soon after, however, he was given command of the forces charged with prosecuting the war against the Rebel Alliance, and perhaps a wider commission to maintain order throughout Imperial space. His powers may be presumed to have been conferred by the time he returned to destroy the Rebel base: by this point he had taken charge of Executor, the largest warship in the galaxy, as his command ship; and Admiral Griff and the Sector Group of the Bright Jewel Oversector-one of the most important Navy commands in the Empire-were subordinated to his command."
he was being punished it from the cannon comics darth vader, when he redeemed himself in the emperors eyes he got command of Executor and became taggs boss again and swiftly executed him
Oh yes, but this was after the first Death Star was destroyed (along with Grand Moff Tarkin). That does not explain why BEFORE the first Death Star was destroyed, Vader is taking orders from Tarkin.
The Emperor was bored of him. He had no need for a Jedi killer apprentice without any Jedi. Vader was not a politician like Tarkin or other the Emperor, he was a warrior and there was no place for him to fight. Until he had a use again he was just pushed down the line in favour of people who could run Palpatine's galaxy
Ender Skies, Watch Rogue One, then check that statement.
LOL, none of this story material existed before the first movie come out. Darth was originally just what he appears to be in Star Wars, a henchman.
Finally a video that makes me justice. Although you´ll have to step in front of the firing squad, that photo you chose makes me look a bit balder than I really am.
get that hairline fixed
Yoda I´m not bald you filthy alien.
In Yoda's defense, he did say you had a hairline...well whats left of one anyway.
Bill Billinger God dammit you are all very tough on the intergalaticnet but my best technicians are tracking you at the moment.
Everyone listens when they hear Big Muff barkin'
Can you do a vid on How lightsabers were attached to the Jedi/siths waist plz
I think magnetic locks
That would be a really boring video
Platinum Skies I'm reasonably sure they are simply hooked to the belt but most likely magnetic
Fartsparkle Master hahaha yeah and next they can do a video on if the Jedi are naked under their robes.
Platinum Skies Easy, Electro magnetic holsters.
Great observations. Darth Vader being given his official authority in the #25 finale was a really great way of giving that comic series a significance in the canon, IMO.
I have two questions
what happened to the 501st after the battle of hoth ?
and could you please do a video on it ?
The 501st was eliminated when the first death star blew up
Michael Lau No their unit was still alive when the empire took revenge on destroying the rebels on yavin 4 and hoth after the Death Star blew up.
It continued to function until Battle of Endor after which it was disbanded, only to be reinstated later by Admiral Thrawn.
In Rogue One Vader is in charge of the fleet, Takin gives the orders aboard the Death Star.
Yeah, it didn't die for a few more days.
so its like an FBI agent working with the local Sheriff in command
Why does Vader take orders from Tarkin?
Palpatine: because I told him to “Dew it”
Im not sure, but i think u forgot 501 legion, vaders personal legion, that was on his charge too and they did missions for the sith and for the imperium
the 501st legion is not canon sadly, I loved battlefront 2
-Dat Mental Gamer- Ya great game
DIAZ52 agreed, I played it all the time on ps2 and now own it on pc :P
The 501st and the 212th were both in the clone wars animated series, and Captain Rex is in Rebels apparently. Thankfully, that means they are canon, even if altered from Battlefront 2.
As far as I can tell, beside Emperor Palpatine, Tarkin was the only officer who could call Vader without saying Lord. He did that a few times in "A New Hope" without being disrespectful. All the other guys said Lord Vader with some fear.
You really could have answered this with two words: Peter Cushing
Craig Harris four words.. Peter cushing the LEGEND!
Craig Harris This!!!!!!
Even when viewed in the context of the Original Trilogy and only that, I think you can still get a sense of the respect shared between Tarkin and Vader. During the meeting between the Imperial higher-ups you get the respect Vader has for Tarkin, but also how little he respects everyone else there. He starts choking Mr. No-Faith without a second of thought once he disses the Force and he probably would have just killed him on the spot had Tarkin not said anything. And once Tarkin is gone having blown up inside the Death Star, we see Vader doing exactly that. Killing off officers left, right, and center for any mistake or sign of ineptitude. That being said, I'm also fine with his increase in power being given more context and thought behind it. Especially since most of it is actually good. If most of it sucked, I'd probably just stick to the story I had imagined in my head.
Why Does Darth Vader Take Orders From Grand Moff Tarkin. Because in the first movie he was intended to serve a role of a mid level commander who could get things done not a major figure in the Empire. After he became more popular they started pushing him up the chain until he became space Jesus. Now he makes zero sense and all explanations are just ridiculous. That's what happens when you let the fans write the story you get bad fan fiction.
Darth vader Two words Jar Jar
Thanks! Thats exactly what happend. Original Vader was a henchman to Tarkin/Empire and a Remnant of the old Force Myth (Remember even Solo fought that the Force was a Fraud). I guess Lucas just didnt foresee how iconic Vader would become and rewrote his role und pushed him as the main antagonist when he realised.
Every other explanation (escpecially those reffering to the prequels) are just a posteriori non-sense.
***** well when you put it that way, I guess the whole story about how he forgot to get his mother out of slavery makes a lot of sense as well. Too much midichlorians.
I really have to laugh at all these attempts to figure out Star Wars. The simple fact is that the plot lines of the first trilogy, episodes 4 thru 6, are so full of holes if you turned them into cheese they'd be Swiss. If you examine them too closely you just spoil the fun of them, so I firmly recommend just sitting back and enjoying them for what they are.
I was very tempted to hear "But, there's more depth to this than Tarkin's position" as "But, there's more Death to this than Star" at 1:05
Vadar was essentially the Gestapo and the SS. He was the emperors personal body guard and minion.
I always figured in hindsight that Tarkin was a uber-bigshot in the Empire, thus he had some authority over Vader, in the sense that the Emperor told Vader, "Work with Tarkin, he knows what he's doing."
Dat isa a berry bombad inquiry, Hisen named SWE...why in da name of da hot Guds would Hesa listen tosa what an old lopity-pie Hisen boopjak, Tarkin, has tosa spake? Hesa inferior tosa TRUE power, mesa tinkin! Down with da inferior garbareenos and let za true warriors, da Gungans, taken over da Galaxy; then, der shall...be...peles...
mesa agree and mesa follow yousa longa tim ago
Boss Nass...Weesa gungan all gunna rule da galaxi...Da darkside isa wit us mui mui☻
mesa subscribe to yousa channel on da YousaTuba
Robo_Destroyer / Darth Troller..Tank u meesa apollo im gunna giv u sum trainin in da darkside of da force ☻
Boss Nass is the key to all of this...
Thanks for answering on my question! Thumb up!
Simple. Lucas had no idea at the time where Vader was going as a character. There, I saved you a whole 3 minutes.
Tokiofritz Thanks.
Tokiofritz Appreciate it.
DJDeezy ThaTruth A New Hope was simply called "Star Wars" when it came out.
Thanks for making this video and explanation very concise, short, and informative!
All this discussion is true, but none of these facts tell WHY he was under them in the power structure. Every emperor, even a powerful Sith, required the loyalty of a great many powerful people. Recall that even droids managed to kill Jedi. The Sith Lord was not invulnerable. The Emperor couldn't command billions of people in far flung star systems. He bought the loyalty and strength he needed by putting people in positions of power and privilege.
On a personal level, Vader was the greatest threat to the Emperor. Putting Vader under the command of others kept the emperor safe from him. The emperor could also use Vader to keep an eye on the admirals, generals, and governors.
What surprises me the most about these scenes are the blatant hostility and disrespect toward Vader and the Force. Nothing in the films states or implies that the Empire at large knows that the Emperor is a Sith Lord. The military officers likely wouldn't be disrespectful to the Force if they knew that. I think the Emperor deliberately wanted the religion of the Force to appear dead, and the exploits of the Jedi to remain mysterious. The Force could only inspire hope from the good side and rivals from the dark side.
Rob Miller This is a nice write up. I would like to add an additional thought of my own to it: Vader only ascended into power coinciding the Emperor gaining knowledge of Luke Skywalkers existence. The Emperor near immediately tasked Vader to bring him in, where he was planning to turn Luke to the 'Dark-side', have him kill Vader and become his newest puppet.
Basically once Vader outlived his usefulness and was increasingly becoming a threat, the second Palpatine got the opportunity he gave him more power and authority along with the directive of locating and apprehending his own replacement. Which was something Palpatine seemed to do a lot throughout the series.
Jacob Blanton I agree with you. another thing that surprised me in the series was the quote that there were always two Sith - never more, never less. this obviously isn't quite true because Palpatine went quite some time between apprentices after his former apprentices were killed. why wouldn't there be hundreds of Sith just like Jedi? my hypothesis is that the power of the dark side exists in limited quantity, and all the sith must share it. more Sith means less power. consequently killing other sith lords serves more than one purpose.
I was just thinking today that Padme should have taken up Anakins offer to kill the emperor and rule the galaxy with her. if there was still good in him, perhaps he could have destroyed the sith that way. but my better sense tells me that his conversion needed his love of his son to turn.
2:02 Imagine going to a grocery store and just seeing Darth Vader scrolling by with a cart
the real reason was because the whole thing wasn't thought through before hand. vader was supposed to be the hands-on warrior while moff was supposed to be the mastermind so obviously the warrior takes order from the mastermind.
when star wars became a huge hit and the story was expanded they decided to give vader a redemption story and they put in an evil super bad guy aka palpatine.
everything else is just trying to plug the plot hole
Palpatine was there from the begining, they mention the emperor in the first movie, aside from that you are correct
Tarkin was also one of the goverment leaders of the old Republic who also had a millatary background. He was very ruthless and cruel toward anyone who opposed him. He developed an early liking to Anakin Skywalker and said he was the only trust worthy jedi he trusted and looks foward to working with him in the future. Not only that chancellor Palpatine also respected him and gave him high ranking position. His biggest weakness was he trusted the power of the deathstar and thought no one could take it down.
it's just cuz Emperor obliged Vader to be inferior to Tarkin cuz if Vader had forces, he would overthrow Sidious
Or Lucas didn't really think about it much when originally writing the script...
wikichris There's a lot of things Lucas doesn't think about when writing scripts.
Alex Maverick thats because he lacks imagination and he is born to have no talent on directing films
FuNnn RevVviewSss I disagree. He's a creative guy, just a shit writer and director.
Alex Maverick his star wars prequels were poorly executed who should I throw the blame? the director is the one that participates in the most part of a movie right?Even tho I enjoyed them my self they could be way better in many ways
FuNnn RevVviewSss Obviously he's to blame. Like I said, he's a shit writer and director. But denying his imagination is silly. He's just one of those people with big ideas who needs the help of others to realize them. Empire Strikes Back is the best example I can give of this.
this confused me so much and it even confused my history teacher so much that he brought it up in class and asked all of his students about it and we all had no idea lol thanks for clearing this up i may have to email this video to him ahahaha
He's no Moff/ He is a Grand Moff. 'Nuff said.
Yes thank you, another fantastic logical explanation.
In the book Deathstar, Vader is shown to have no official standing in the imperial armed forces. Vader answered only to the emperor but decided to not interfere with the operations of the Deathstar and its command staff so long as they did what they were supposed to and not try to take control for themselves
Tarkin outranks him, no further explanation necessary
Are you referring to Legends or New canon? Rebels is part of new canon but I believe there wasn't any book/comic about Tarkin in new canon yet
So in a nutshell, they made supplementary material to 'explain' away the simple fact that there's an inconsistency in the movies. No shit.
As someone who's not read either the novels or the comics and only watched the films, I found this very informative. As a kid, it always baffled me as to why in Episode IV Vader defers to and takes orders only from Tarkin (the scene where he stops force choking that officer on Tarkin's command comes to mind).
Also, does anyone here know why no original action figure of Tarkin exists? Considering that just about every other character, significant or insignificant was made into a toy (even droids who appeared on screen in the background for thirty seconds), I find that strange. My guess is that for whatever reason Cushing didn't contractually permit Lucas to use his likeness.
Shame that they didn't realize they had such a great character in their hands and just killed him.
Tarkin is the best and most underrated secondary SW villain ever
Watching this answers a long-standing question of mine about Star Wars - Why Vader's career didn't suffer over the loss of the Death Star.
I always just assumed it was a combination of mutual respect AND Tarkin outranked him
Vader's position in the Empire reminds me the Arbiter's position in the Covenant in the Halo series. Arbiter was also completely outside of the normal military and he would typically answer only to the prophets - the leaders of the Covenant. He had his special missions and when he took control over some military units, it was mostly just a temporary thing, or it was based on friendship with the commanders rather than based on his rank. And being an Arbiter was also a suicidal position by design. Also a bit like Vader's position, as Emperor was also testing him on many occasions. He probably wouldn't mind Vader dying too much.
do a video about the first order!
Tarkin was a respected member of the imperial, and Palpatine close colaborator, Vader positions is different story, political wise, however, he can slay Tarkin whenever he wants, Palpy allowed him anydays, Vader only second to Palpatine on Sith's hierarchy wise, but Palpy needs tarkin in positions, in order to maintain his "emperor status" so Vader didn't have anything to disobey Tarkin. Simple.
Because, They were best friends >:3