Why The Ancient Sith Lords HATED Darth Vader! - Star Wars Explained
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He didn’t want the dark side he did not care, he just wanted the power to bring back padme
that's a positive goal and desire, not making him pure to the dark side
@@fernosbonos5394 Until he decided to become a mass murderer.
He could have just took her to dathomeir and turned her into a zombie😂
The dark side wouldn’t allow that it twisted people good intentions make them do terrible deeds make them feel right but it just selfishness and ego. Plus later down the line he would have killed or someone else would because she was his weakness.
His love for Padme was the catalyst for his turn, sure, but the fact that he stayed stayed on the Dark Side for more than 20 years after her suggests that there was something more to it than just that.
To the point of Palpatine not following the rule of 2, Palpatine intended for the rule of 2 to end with him. Since he had completed the grand plan, he intended to never die and be the Emporer forever.
Yeah dark side users are terrible in ruling the galaxy.
@@jaieregilmore971 actually the time of the empire was very organized and peacfull, as long as you dont have connection to the rebellion or the jedi, u are pretty much safe as a civillian
@@hanifziyadil8972 yeah I know there is a possibility of a good empire it just the ruler shouldn’t be a dark side users because ruling a galaxy would never be enough to satisfy them.
technically that was Darth plagueis his masters plan, He brought up palpatine to be equals, for palpatine to be the emperor and plagueis to be the hidden power behind him making sure he stays emperor, and that he keeps them both alive forever manipulating midichlorians to feed their immortality. Onced palpatine became emperor he got plagueis drunk and waited for him to fall asleep so he could kill him and become the master, and he found the perfect permanent apprentice in a broken darth vader who had all the power to surpass sidious but none of the drive to do so until he found out about Luke. But palpatine instead of learning and utilizing plagueis techniques of manipulating the force to sustain and create life for immortality learned essence transfer instead to keep himself alive by jumping from clone to clone, and never intended to pass Darth Plagueis's techniques on to vader. It was an empty promise to save padme to make anakin beholden to him, and by turning him against the jedi and using them as a scapegoat he ensured that the only drive darth vader would have is making sure they stayed extinct
I don't see why they would hate Vader, he's only the way he is because of palpatine. Palpatine is the one who is willingly watering down their teachings and beliefs.
no that's not true they hated him because he was never fully in the dark side they saw from day 1 he just wants to use our knowledge and power for himself
In fact, I would suggest they just despised Varder, Sidius, Krayt, Bane too.
Maybe, the only one truly using the Dark Side to build and maintain an Empire for a while was Marka Ragnos.
He had no apprentice, no heir, played every competitor against the other and died a natural old death.
And under his rule the Sith Empire prospered without particular need to conquer or depredate others.
On the other side, the Galactic Empire was an economic mess and this fueled the Rebellion.
it is improbable to have a serious rebellion when the economy go well.
@@kurtpunchesthings2411like momin said he wanted the dark side the bend on his knees, not the other way around
@@painlord2khe economy went well but only for core worlds i believe, reason why mid rim and outer rim started the rebellion (thanks to former pro-Republic nobles
@@djibrilr6s
There is a part played by the Sith in pushing in the direction of economic disparities: some getting wealthy without working and others working without becoming wealtier.
But, on the other hand, it is like the current state of the global economy. A centralized elite dedicated on depredating everyone else because they are not good for anything else.
I think the Rule of Two would've become obsolete with the dawn of the Empire. There was no reason to hide anymore
Rule of two isn't about hiding... it's about keeping infighting from weakening the sith
I think it more about concentration of power ..
I think it was basically made null and void by Plagueis himself. He was actually the one that ordered Sidius to take Maul as his 'apprentice'. Plagueis stated that the rule of two was no longer necessary, as their ultimate goal was near at hand.
@@Julian-tf5rbIf you read the book Plagueis explicitly agrees to making Maul an assassin, not a sith. Maul was not a true apprentice, and Plagueis and Sidious both knew that
@peaceweapon1933 your discerning between 'sith' and 'assassin' is pointlessly arbitrary. A sith assassin is still a sith. Thus, it is still breaks the rule of two.
I will always prefer the old sith to the rule of 2 Sith. So many cool Sith in SWTOR.
yet they died because of their arrogance and narcissistic Ideology
All of the Sith Lords hated everyone, hated each other, and they hated themselves.
But did they hate sand?
Yeah this makes a lot of sense considering Anakin is meant to be the chosen one and embody balance in the Force.
First. Vader didn't have a true love for Dark Side, he was lost to the power of a women.
Your wrong
@@Dontreadthis_ Not really
The force is nothing compared to the power of the simp.
So wanting to save your wife that’s bearing your children is simp behavior now. Makes total sense to me.
Vader was a slave his netire life and a simp, half of it
That’s why Vader was the balance. Emotions can kill. Cold calculating logic and reasoning is a sith trait which is admirable, but the emotional element of love and compassion are the he key elements to the force.
Well they weren't wrong. He was like Bane without the ambition or Malgus without the ruthlessness.
No matter how deep Anakin was in the dark side, he was never a true Sith. there was always light within himself that could never be extinguished.
Anakin was supposed to be the one who brought balance to both light and dark. the middle ground between. there was obviously going to be darkness within him. we see this again and again in Clone Wars with Anakin being quick to violence than most other Jedi, but quicker to act when a friend is in danger. Palpatine just threw off Anakin's balance, further into the dark side. this is why he wasn't a true Sith. Palpatine just kept convincing him otherwise to make sure Vader was under his control.
what u said reminds me of Xehanort
Well put.
Ancient Sith and even Palpatine knew his heart wasn’t in it. He’s just a tired man who regrets everything.
He had potential for change to Jedi order.
If the Vader would embrace dark side he wouldn't turn on Palpatine. He would just let his son die. No regret, no remorse, no empathy. It was his dim light side which allowed him to overthrow his master. Which is ironic. Sith lord killing his master not from jealousy, but from empathy to another being. That was his ultimate purpose - to bring balance to the force and throwing away any light from him would be againt him. He simply couldn't embrace the darkness fully, regardless of his motivations.
There is this concept of Gray Jedi. Vader was something like Gray Sith. Vader used pain and dark side but it was never his goal in itself
Well originally Palpatine seduced Anakin to the dark side with a promise to create and save life after Anakin had a nightmare that Padme was going to die during child birth.
So while Anakin’s sole focus originally was to save her life Palpatine saw it as a way to manipulate his feelings in to becoming Darth Vader with the promise of unlimited power.
Anakins love of Padme and his emotion was his greatest weakness which turned a good man in to a corrupt evil man who had basically lost everything he was fighting for which was exactly what Palpatine wanted.
Anakin was never a true Sith by nature but he became a Sith through his own deadly sins. Envy pride, wrath, lust and eventually greed.
well said, darth vader had all the capability and talent to become the most powerful dark lord of the sith in galactic history, but in losing Padme he lost all drive and motivation to do so, this is exactly what palpatine wanted, a permanent apprentice. It was a modified version of Darth Plagueis's plan to end the rule of 2 as he wanted sidious to become his equal in ruling the galaxy, he would keep them both alive with sidious being the emperor and the face of their rule while Plagueis would be the hidden power behind the throne. So when Sidious was elected chancellor he betrayed Plagueis while he was sleeping to become the master and eventually turned darth vader into his permanent apprentice who would never be driven to challenge his rule, that is until he learned of Luke. So really Luke was the monkey wrench that brought the rule of 2 back into existence, because either he was going to beat vader and become Sidious's new apprentice, or Vader was going to beat Palpatine become the new master and take a fallen luke as his apprentice.
there was an interesting "what if? comic years ago that was "what if leia had been discovered and turned to the darkside as vaders apprentice" that had luke joining the rebels to eventually haveing to face her that was pretty interesting if you can track it down, but it kind of ignored the rule of 2 but it was really interesting
Look at 'ol Darth Scion. Dude held himself together with the dark side after being killed and maimed multiple times. Vader should have been able to do something similar but keeping the cybornetic limbs etc.
So in other words, the ancient sith saw the Banite sith as Heretics. Ofcourse it was to save the Sith from themselves, but limiting it to only 2 sith in the entire galaxy is a Sign of weakness aswell. 1000s of jedi vs only 2 sith lords sound highly unfair, thus the Sith's over-reliance to staying in the shadows, which is basically a FEAR of being caught by the Jedi, is already basically Nerfing themselves. Hence the Ancient Sith had more success Exterminating their foes then Modern Sith does, because they have a Military and 1000s of Sith behind them, they have the freedom to Experiment and Search for Power compared to the Modern Sith, While it was a moment of desperation and Self-preservation. The Rule of 2 was a Mistake, if not a Mistake, it is Flawed.
Was it really tho?
Think about it a problem sith had is they were too arrogant and would fight amongst themselves.
Alcolyte sith were already usually higher caliber than their Jedi counterparts.
Now if you allow your enemy to believe yoube been destroyed, waiting centuries for them to slowly dull thier power, why would they need to train to destroy sith they are gone.
The sith no never stopped training to fight Jedi.
The sith also watched the Jedi closely and moved all Jedi that could be a serious threat to thier side or removed them.
Leaving thousands of Jedi that could not defend themselves essentially. While the sith constantly attained higher skill and power.
Modern Sith- Villains that don't see themselves as villains.
Ancient Sith- Fully self-aware Monsters.
I recall that Darth Vader had more Apprentices or Acolytes, Lumiya, Tao, Starkillee, Flint, Rillao. . . . . and some more
Anakin shows love
Jedi: thats not the jedi way!
Sith: you're not a real sith!
I love Vader, but he was no Darth Malgus.
Revan rocked!
How is this ancient sith narrative even a thing. I was under the impression that only light siders could retain thier identity after death.
Ancient Dark Siders that were powerful enough in life can literally have an echo of their power "Haunt" a specific location. Exar Kun was one such Sith and his ghost could possess people to make them do his bidding. Not to mention Sith make Holocrons of their knowledge as well.
Sith can become Sith spirits when they die. These are not force ghosts. They are tied to an object typically and cannot go where they please, they also do not exist within the force
Darth Bane looks like Vin Diesel in 10:05
This is very true if Vadar truly embraced the darkside of the force luke would not have been able to turn him back to the light side
Your supposition regarding Sidious is either flawed or the Sith didn’t think things through. The rule of two was designed to build power to destroy the Jedi, and likely take over the galaxy. How else could 2 individuals defeat all the Jedi. So the Galactic Empire and “its shackles” must be the endgame. Otherwise the plan was what… take over long enough to kill the Jedi and then…Retire to a garden planet? Bane must have envisioned some type of Empire as the endgame otherwise the rule of two has no point
I agree. After reading the Bane trilogy, I think he saw it as 1.Control the Galaxy and the Jedi will fall, or 2. Destroying the Jedi will naturally lead to control of the Galaxy. I think he saw them hand in hand
I’ve asked this on a couple other videos and I’m desperately trying to find an answer:
WHAT REMIX OF THE FORCE THEME ARE YOU USING ALL THE TIME?!? it’s really awesome! You use it in a lot of your videos as background music and I’m desperately trying to find it!
I love that they’re other people who love star wars at much as me y’all are probably really cool people
Well actualy, Ancient Sith generaly hated Banite Sith and their teaching in general, espacialy rule of two and all that incognito power build up scheme.
My personal opinion is that they've seen Vader as peak abomination steaming from the Rule of two.
A Sith obssesed with Jedi and their destruction so much that it has no actual connection to Sith ideology or actualy their religion since to them Dark Side has almost religious status, same as Force and/or Light Side within Jedi Order.
Vader and Palpatine: “They hate us can’t they ain’t us.”
What an excellent storyline. Would love to see this as a movie or series if it could be done right.
Love the vid use to scale Star Wars before my channel got hacked
Impressive indeed.
Darth Bane is canon, too, at least his Rule of Two.
Vader seems like the type who would resurrect a Sith and kill him again if its ghost insulted him.
If i was Vader, I'd say to the ancients, how many of you took out the whole jedi order, my master fought one, I fought... all of the them!
The Sith are taught to be self centered, what makes you think they like anyone or anything besides themselves…
Was it me or is this audio recorded really low? Even with AirPods on I had to make moves to hear it
My whole thing with bane is I just got done with the first books and it seems revan started the rule of two bane learns it from the holocron on rakata prime and then he just makes it the only true teaching since he was the soul surviving sith on Ruusan
You for got to mention about yoda meeting darth bane
Sick
Bane didn’t like Jedi turning into sith
Ok, I'm gonna pizz in some cheerios here, but the way I see it, this "rule of two" is what truely makes the modern sith weak. Bear with me here folks! Ok look at darth bane, in my opinion the only reason for the rule of two was to exploit his obsession with essence transfer. In short...he only wanted to ensure "His" survival down through time. That way he could gather all the knowledge and all the power by assimilating his apprentices body before each of his deaths. So in my opinion the rule of two is weak at its core because it was born of bane's FEAR (yeah, I said it!) of death! He feared to experiance the finality of death!...now as tactics go, only having two folks on your team (one to wield the power, one to crave it) is just not good. Imagine if there were say two worlds of sith! Yes if you want to take in to account their obsession with betraying their masters, eventually there would be conflict...blah blah. But if there were two planets full of sith that were united in their desire to truely take the galaxy, and split it up after...that would have been so much more profitable for the sith as a whole and for the dark side of the force and would be better for us in our galaxy because there would be sooo many more stories and material for stories and we may have never had the need to be subjected to the last three sh!ty God forsaken movies! But that's just. My opinion...now hopefully I'll be able to sleep well tonight...and I'll close with a quote from the great battles and james..."thank you for your support"
False. Bane was fully willing to die multiple times in order to follow his ideals. He asked Zannah to kill him just to avoid Prison by the Jedi. And at the end of his book he let zannah find him on Ambria so they could duel each other for the fate of the Sith. Essence Transfer was merely a back up tool to protect the Sith from downfall of any kind, he was worried Zannah was going to wait to kill him when he was old and she'd get the title without proving herself stronger.
They were correct to dislike him as in his heart he wasn't truly committed to dark side. He was more a person who had untreated trauma from childhood. He used dark side as a means to save his wife. Love cannot be a path to dark side. He returned to light because he wasn't truly committed to dark side and love for son and memory of his beloved wife is what changed him.
Vadwr brought peace and balance to the galaxy.
Agree 100% with your analysis of this topic. But I do have one consideration to add. Jealousy. The ancient Sith were jealous of Vader. Anakin, or Vader, was the product of midichlorian manipulation. He was literally born of the force. His power is pretty much unrivaled. His midichlorian count even put Yodas to shame. And I think the Ancient Sith were so jealous of his squandered power. Take a force balanced Anakin/Vader (they end up one and the same in the end) and put them against any ancient Sith. He beats anyone into the ground. The only real threat to a force balanced Anakin/Vader would be Abeloth I think. And I really feel that drove the Ancient Sith out of their minds with anger and hate. Lol
All the same points can mostly be made for revan also
Volume a lil low
Personally I think the ancient sith get the honored privilege of sitting down and shutting up as they spin in their graves cuz they’re dead and all failed to destroy the Jedi as completely as the modern sith
Vader was never really a Sith in spirit. Using the dark side was a means to an end for Vader. He used it as a tool to try and save the woman he loved from his delusional visions of the future. But what he failed to see was that his plunge into the dark side is what ended up killing Padme in the end. Driving him deeper into the abyss of lonelinese and hatred. Hate was all he had left after that….
Even AM be going: Dang, that’s a lot of hate.
👍
Sooo Much HATE!!! So much Hate! -Patrick Star
Vader would have never been able to unleash all of his power, due to the suit that Palpatine made for him, that caused him constant suffering.
Little confused. The ancient sith existed thousands of years before the skywalker era right? How did they know about Vader back then? Thanks
The Force liked to show ancient Sith and Jedi vision of the future connected to Skywalker family
There is a contradiction overlooked in Legends, and that is of course the "Sith'ari".
This was the Sith's equivalent of a dark messiah or "chosen one" to tear the Sith Order asunder. Only to rebuild it a new. Now some argue that this was Darth Bane, whom I might add came long after the ancient Sith Lords. He destroyed the Dark Brotherhood, and established the Rule of Two.
Yet even greater argument could be made that since born through an immaculate conception in the force. Then this is what rightfully established Anakin Skywalker as the true Sith'ari. Yet, because of his ego, temper, and over confidence. We know what the end result of that was for Anakin later, when he became Darth Vader. He was injured or maimed, put into a life support suit, and kept around for Palpatine's bidding. Yet he still did wield great power. But again limited in his physiology. Which is why Vader said to Luke on Endor in RotJ,
"It is too late for me, my son."
Vader was a prisoner of his own demise, chained with unbreakable chains. Due to his dependence of his suit and prosthetics.
This is truly why both the ancient Sith and Palpatine despised him.
How?? How did they know he was Anakin??? Other than “feeling his Darkside nature seething within “ how would they know his identity?!
Hate is good for the Force algorithm. That’s why. 🤔
why are pronouncing korriban with an o near the end theirs one o it's not Korribon its Korriban (sorry about how aggressive this sounds)
Every human is self serving. The ancient sith believed in embracing fear, desire and anger.. in essence Vader was a perfect Sith since his desire, His fear, And his anger are intertwined and fuel eachother. So I would say Vaders power was truly unlimited and if he had his entire body no one would have ever been able to stop him and he would have achieved eternal life.
His love to save Luke was even Darkness . It wasn't a redemption. He still wanted Luke to become his apprentice and rule by his side. Vaders a complex character, but order 66..... younglings, using Palps as a stepping stone and even more fuel to his fire.
Even his sacrifice was because he seen himself in Luke and I like to believe he seen Luke following in his footsteps and Lucas should have gone with the original ending where Luke puts on Vaders helmet
Vader was truly evolved in to a perpetual dark side energy generator. The unlimited power Palpatine was seeking. His darkness was perfectly balanced in the sense that each trait fed of eachother in the infinite loop. I would have loved to see Vader realize this amd remove his suit and allowed his , fear. Hate, pain , amd desire fuel his life. Even surpassing the need for prosthetics with force limbs and maybe Mother Talsm could have been forced to help him regain his limbs ... Ala Darth Maul. Then Vader learns Sith Sorcery and everything he can about "Sith life....... my Sitha" lol
Vader truly was the chosen one to bring balance to the force by imposing the rule of 2 on to the Jedi themselves. He brought the fight down to a 2v2 battle . Yoda and Obi, versus Palps and Ani. The Jedi should have embraced the Rule of 2 because the original intention was to have the Force solely focused on as few people as possible in order the fuel theor abilities unhindered with the need to loan more and more of its power out to 100s of thousands of other dark side users. So the ideal has to work both ways.
Just my 2 sense which is worth about a half penny in this world lol
I thought Revan implemented the rule of 2
Nah it was Top Boy Bane
Revan made a holocron where he stated that a Master needs to have only 1 apprentice to not waste all the power on multiple, but rather get one strong and effectively capable student that would be actively hard working. Bane found Revan's holocron and used that to make Rule of 2.
He had the basis of the idea and Bane extrapolated his ideals from Revans teachings, implementing them and completing them. Revans order was slightly different as he and Malak were the too Sith with every other one below them.
Ancient sith hating bc even with all those limitations he was still one of the most powerful sith in the history's of sith lol
Seeing as how old siths were, yeah I'd say neither Palpatine nor Vader were siths, in fact they didn't even have crave for the "dark side". Palpatine wanted to rule, Vader was just... Vader lmao
Imo Maul is more a sith than Palpatine and Vader but even he is driven by personal gripe.
I understand Siths, they don't just crave power, they crave "power through the dark side". They don't want to master the force but command it by brute and genuine emotions. Not personal hate, but hatred in general; not fear of a single being but fear of failure, death; to them passion/fear/hatred are emotions to be universal, kind of the opposite of altruism. This might seem then Palpatine as the same, he did whatever it took to rule. But that's the thing, he wanted to rule people, he wanted to rule the galaxy, and by galaxy it is more he wanted to be a leader without parallel. Meanwhile ancient siths were likely hoping to rule the galaxy as a concept. As in they commanded all beings, not as a rule but as a hungry beast imposing their bloodlust and hunger on its prey for the sake of it. In this way, ancient siths all aspired to be true evil?
Or maybe my understanding is wrong.
Everybody hating we just call them fans tho
He went into the dark side because he wanted to save padme, he was never a true sith.
If they were so ancient then how are they still relivent to Darth vader? 😂😂😂
Bane was I. The clone wars
This is why their Reign didnt last the dark side was not fully behind them for obvious reasons Anakin was too much of a crybaby who could touch the force allowed all his talent to flaunt for him and put no work ethic in his growth and at the end of it his mind was too much of a mess and his full potential eluded him and for Sidious he was a politician not a true Sith and the Jedi was no better they became Stale Rotten and Corrupt so the force was not fully behind either of them which is why in my opinion the Empire was built on a house of cards all it takes is a few strategic strikes and it all came down
The force for the rule of two sith is actually stronger than ancient sith. The dark side of the force was extremely powerful with bane and who came after, the power of the masters would literally transfer to the apprentice once they turned and killed their master. Sidious would stomp every ancient sith as he was stated to be the most powerful in several different novels
@Twizted I agree with that 100% however it was the use of super weapons that did him in the force will only take so much of that chaos before the force intervenes like it did with Sidious
Legends > Disney canon
Ok this where I'd disagree if The Ancient Sith knew about Vader( which him and Anakin did appear in visions) then they would've known about the Prophecy..And Sidious was the reigning Dark Lord so I don't think he violated anything. The Rule Of Two was meant to make the Sith stronger and bring them to power which it did and Sidious became the Strongest Sith in history.
If you think about it Darth Vader was simply a depressed cyberpunk goth emo with anger issues
Typical
Ancient sith are just tibbetan buddhists lol
Third
That’s silly… the sith love to hate lol
Hmm this is nice and all but Bane was a newcomer and weak which is why he ambushed his superiors and sent them into a unknown dimension. He killed the sith with his rule of 2 done from cowardice if you truly look at it. Palpitine is a Padawan for the sith never did he learn anything of power from his own master who he thinks is dead but he's not really sure about it either.. the sith before the rules of 2 never needed to hide from anyone or anything. Sidious is the absolute weakest sith emperor ever. Easily killed, horrible planning, worse than b1 battle droid execution of battle plans and desperately needs everything around him to support him. So ancient sith hate Vader? Maybe but any one of them was twice as strong as the joke Sidious.
Vader was a slave his netire life and a simp, half of it
Darth Vader was really never Darth Vader 😭 he was always Anakin he only turned for Padme and he was thenclied too and became a slave so he really was never a sith lord
The rule of Two started with Bane he found it from a holocron from Darth Revan Darth Revan is the creator of the rule of two every Sith before Darth Revan would have had no concept of the rule of two and normally they a handful of apprentices if not armies of force-sensitives. So any of the agency before revving really wouldn't have found this taboo, and even during sidious's time which would be a and go basically of the rule of two they were still other sects of Sith lineage that did not adhere to that rule most notably the ones that would eventually back Darth krayt, but there's even the Darksiders on drama and cashed who had their own system
Banite Sith are heretics. And, Sidious couldn’t handle having a true Acolyte. Out of Sidious and Vader, only Vader had a challenging apprentice in Starkiller, therefore making him closer to an actual Sith than the Emperor. Sidious could have restored Vader’s biological body and make him a true Acolyte, as it would make Anakin at 100% potential, instead of capping his power.